Uniform display of medals [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

mlees

08-09-2011, 01:56 PM

Yes, there is an order of precedence [seniority] for military medals and/or ribbons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_military#By_Order_of_Precedence

The ribbons and medals can be mounted on "rails" so that they line up nice and even:

http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Shelf/ASP/Hierarchy/050T.html

runner pat

08-09-2011, 02:01 PM

nm, gotta type faster.

fructose1

08-09-2011, 02:02 PM

There are two ways. The first is to use what's called a robon backer. It is either a metal strip or a bunch or strips spaced our appropriately that you slide your ribbons onto and pin to your service coat/shirt. The second way is to buy a custom made 'plate' that has all the ribbons and devices attached in the right order that you just pin on. You can get them at the on base taylor, I think. For people like those in the picture, the second option is better because it is lighter that the first. And it looks smoother and cleaner.

And there is a definite order. You can find the generic order here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_military), and there are even online sites that will tell you what order to put them in. I know the Air Force has an online site for it's members that will show them what ribbons and devices they are authorized to wear and in what order.

LSLGuy

08-09-2011, 10:41 PM

Minor nit: The first couple of pictures here are "medals": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=892&bih=532&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=medals+military&oq=medals+military&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3089l4977l0l5960l9l9l0l4l4l0l327l873l2-1.2l3l0

The things in the OP's pic are "ribbons". A "ribbon" is a simplified display device for a corresponding medal.

i.e. when somebody is awarded the "Meritorious Coolitude" medal, they'll be given both

a "medal" (vertical strip of striped cloth a couple inches long with a safety pin on the back & with a metal medallion bigger than a US 25 cent piece hanging from the bottom)
and also
a "ribbon" (a sample of the same striped cloth but only ~3/8" tall & mounted on a metal backing.)

RIbbons are worn on the moderately fancy uniform as a day-to-day emblem of one's status; Think "power suit" in civilian dress. Conversely, full-up medals are only worn on ceremonial occasions; think "tuxedo" in civilian dress.

At least in the US, medals also come in two sizes, regular and miniature. Regular have ~1 - 1-1/4" ribbon width and medallions about the size of 50 cent pieces. Mini are more like 3/4" wide ribbon and a medallion larger than a nickel but smaller than a quarter.

flyboy

08-09-2011, 11:17 PM

The "custom made plate" referred to come from places like this (http://www.superthinribbons.com/), where you can select your ribbons and they do the rest. The commercial ribbon plate, to me, looks much better than the home-made racks people put together.

Raguleader

08-10-2011, 04:27 AM

Folks here have this topic mostly covered, but some fun trivia here: Those ribbons which have the little gold or silver things pinned on them are ribbons that he received multiple times. The little metal things you pin onto them each represent another award of that decoration.

Koxinga

08-10-2011, 04:37 AM

Based on this (http://sldn.3cdn.net/cbad53db19bd40ebe0_tvm6bn4g6.jpg) picture, I was wondering how those in the armed forces get their medals displayed so evenly. Are medals placed in any particular order?

Is it just me or does that rectangle of ribbons look like it was pasted into the photo? Not even by Photoshop, to me it looks like an MS Paint job.

guestchaz

08-10-2011, 04:49 AM

another fun fact, the devices (little metal thingys on the ribbons denoting multple awards) change as you get more of that particular award

guestchaz

08-10-2011, 05:01 AM

Is it just me or does that rectangle of ribbons look like it was pasted into the photo? Not even by Photoshop, to me it looks like an MS Paint job.

missed the edit window critiquing the display, yes it does. Ribbon overlapping his lapel also looks awfully pink to me(isn't that the gay AF Ltc?), could be my screen though. When I clicked the picture to enlarge it though it looks mostly ok except that pink ribbon on top of his lapel, that looks faker than fake and throws the whole display out of whack

Koxinga

08-10-2011, 05:19 AM

That corner with the pink ribbon doesn't seem to push down the lapel it's on top of, at all: as if it's floating above it. And the whole thing looks like it's pointed squarely at the camera whereas the front of his jacket is turned to the right.

I wonder why they would do this?

Ferret Herder

08-10-2011, 05:52 AM

missed the edit window critiquing the display, yes it does. Ribbon overlapping his lapel also looks awfully pink to me(isn't that the gay AF Ltc?), could be my screen though. When I clicked the picture to enlarge it though it looks mostly ok except that pink ribbon on top of his lapel, that looks faker than fake and throws the whole display out of whack
Yeah, that's Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach. I used Google Image Search to look for more pictures - and also found an example of the wear-all-the-ribbons level of dress - and it was hard to tell, but it looks like the plate kind of sticks up on the corners or something. Here's a tiny picture but a different angle (http://www.washingtonblade.com/2011/02/16/fehrenback-assured-retirement-from-air-force-with-pension/) and that corner seems to stick above the lapel there too. Maybe it's something to do with his (rather muscular) build that they can't really shift the plate further towards the shoulder, lest it really stick up/look weird?

Raguleader

08-10-2011, 05:54 AM

I think that's just how the angles worked out. As others mentioned, you can get a one-piece ribbon "plate" made that has all the ribbons on it, but as a single solid piece. I haven't looked at one of those up close, but it could be set up so the whole thing is flat (I've seen ribbon racks that were flat, and ones that were curved back towards the ends a bit). Most people, you will find, don't have perfectly flat torsos, but rather roundish ones. So the light is hitting his ribbons a certain consistent way, while the rest of him is catching the light at different angles.

That's my theory, anyways. He is sitting with the rack closest to the camera, which could be chance, or it could be the photographer thinks it looks better for him to sit that way.

EDIT: For what it's worth, the ribbon rack is casting a shadow on his coat if you look closely enough.

Raguleader

08-10-2011, 05:57 AM

Maybe it's something to do with his (rather muscular) build that they can't really shift the plate further towards the shoulder, lest it really stick up/look weird?

The ribbon rack has to line up with his pocket, so if you shifted the plate over to avoid the lapel, it would pretty much look wrong and be wrong. I've seen some of the bigger racks (no pun intended) set up so that the higher levels have ribbons taken out of the side closest to the lapel, so as to avoid overlap. I've also seen them where the lapel covered part of the top one or two rows. I've not earned enough for that to be an issue for me yet.

Ferret Herder

08-10-2011, 06:38 AM

The ribbon rack has to line up with his pocket, so if you shifted the plate over to avoid the lapel, it would pretty much look wrong and be wrong. I've seen some of the bigger racks (no pun intended) set up so that the higher levels have ribbons taken out of the side closest to the lapel, so as to avoid overlap. I've also seen them where the lapel covered part of the top one or two rows. I've not earned enough for that to be an issue for me yet.
Thanks for the clarification - yeah, it sounds like he's simply got enough ribbons to make this an issue in his case.

Here's a picture of him (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/08/27/Letter_from_Victor_Fehrenbachs_Sister_on_DADT/) with a bunch of medals on, for comparison. My wild guess is that there's a protocol for what medals you bother to pin on when you have that many?

Raguleader

08-10-2011, 07:05 AM

Thanks for the clarification - yeah, it sounds like he's simply got enough ribbons to make this an issue in his case.

Here's a picture of him (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/08/27/Letter_from_Victor_Fehrenbachs_Sister_on_DADT/) with a bunch of medals on, for comparison. My wild guess is that there's a protocol for what medals you bother to pin on when you have that many?

Rule of thumb is "All or Nothing". If you wear authorized medals and/or ribbons, you wear all of them. Now, what is considered authorized varies from uniform to uniform and service to service (for instance, Airmen can't currently wear Army decorations that they earn, IIRC)

Fear Itself

08-10-2011, 07:08 AM

Here's a picture of him (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/08/27/Letter_from_Victor_Fehrenbachs_Sister_on_DADT/) with a bunch of medals on, for comparison. Leave it to the Air Force to have a regulation tuxedo uniform.

WotNot

08-10-2011, 07:12 AM

Is it just me or does that rectangle of ribbons look like it was pasted into the photo?
No, but his eyes are following me around the room.

Raguleader

08-10-2011, 07:24 AM

Leave it to the Air Force to have a regulation tuxedo uniform.

Most western militaries do. If we didn't have one, we'd look under-dressed.:D

Cite. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Mess_uniform)

Chefguy

08-10-2011, 08:54 AM

Thanks for the clarification - yeah, it sounds like he's simply got enough ribbons to make this an issue in his case.

Here's a picture of him (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/08/27/Letter_from_Victor_Fehrenbachs_Sister_on_DADT/) with a bunch of medals on, for comparison. My wild guess is that there's a protocol for what medals you bother to pin on when you have that many?

Not all decorations are medals. Some are just ribbons, such as the Navy's Sea Service Ribbon. So even though he has a lot of decorations, the number of medals worn could be somewhat less. The ones he's wearing are miniature medals, which is much easier than trying to mount the full-sized ones.

spifflog

08-10-2011, 01:32 PM

mlees

08-10-2011, 01:50 PM

Not sure about the other services, but in the Navy, your 'rule of thumb' doesn't apply. For ribbons as an example, we either all of them, or the three senior ones. 'Nothing' isn't an option.

Don't wear ribbons on the working uniform (I am speaking of the dungarees and digi-cami's)...

spifflog

08-10-2011, 02:22 PM

mlees

08-10-2011, 02:35 PM

mlees,

Not sure what your point is. Clearly one doesn't wear ribbons on a working uniform.

Raguleader was stating some type of "all or nothing rule." I was pointing out that in the Navy at least, I don't have to wear all of them on a uniform that ribbons are authorized on. I have the option to wear them all, or the top three.

Sorry, I zeroed in on the "Nothing isn't an option.", and for some reason, I thought I would point out instances where no ribbons are worn. No disrespect intended.

Edit: I realise now that you were only speaking of uniforms where ribbons are required, not in a more general sense.

guestchaz

08-10-2011, 02:59 PM

Yeah, that's Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach. I used Google Image Search to look for more pictures - and also found an example of the wear-all-the-ribbons level of dress - and it was hard to tell, but it looks like the plate kind of sticks up on the corners or something. Here's a tiny picture but a different angle (http://www.washingtonblade.com/2011/02/16/fehrenback-assured-retirement-from-air-force-with-pension/) and that corner seems to stick above the lapel there too. Maybe it's something to do with his (rather muscular) build that they can't really shift the plate further towards the shoulder, lest it really stick up/look weird?

Yeah, what I meant was that the color is wrong, the ribbon looks distinctly pink and like its just a degree or two out of wack with the rest of the ribbons,like it was pasted onto the pic or something, but in the link you provided it looks red and seems to line up with the rest of the ribbons correctly. Could be the angle, I agree but I dunno, the color difference....I still think that one ribbon was altered in the larger pic

Raguleader

08-10-2011, 04:43 PM

mlees,

Not sure what your point is. Clearly one doesn't wear ribbons on a working uniform.

Raguleader was stating some type of "all or nothing rule." I was pointing out that in the Navy at least, I don't have to wear all of them on a uniform that ribbons are authorized on. I have the option to wear them all, or the top three.

Obviously, each branch of service will have its own rules for how you wear the uniform. We don't even all agree on how close the ribbons should be to each other on the rack. But since the Lt. Colonel in the picture is from the Air Force, my "All or Nothing" rule of thumb would apply to him.

In case you're curious, you can tell it's an Air Force uniform because of how minimal the decorations are. Whoever designed our uniform took to heart the line about "The side with the fanciest uniform loses." :rolleyes:

UncaStuart

08-10-2011, 07:20 PM

Yeah, what I meant was that the color is wrong, the ribbon looks distinctly pink and like its just a degree or two out of wack with the rest of the ribbons,like it was pasted onto the pic or something, but in the link you provided it looks red and seems to line up with the rest of the ribbons correctly. Could be the angle, I agree but I dunno, the color difference....I still think that one ribbon was altered in the larger pic

That's the Meritorious Service Medal and it's supposed to be crimson, which I could see going to the pink side of things depending on how light was hitting it.

yoyodyne

08-10-2011, 07:27 PM

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritorious_Service_Medal_(United_States)) is the top-left ribbon, and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Service_Medal) is the center-left ribbon. It does look like the color has been tweaked.

Elendil's Heir

08-11-2011, 11:24 AM

Raguleader

08-11-2011, 03:29 PM

I remember a New Yorker cartoon with a military officer talking to a little old lady at a fancy party. He had a huge chestful of medals and was pointing to one, saying, "I got this one by mistake. Then I got all these others because I got this one."

And those jarheads are stylin'!: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/PlateV_Evening_Dress.jpg

Hah, there's a cartoon I saw, similar setup, where the guy is instead saying "And I got this one for good behavior..."

Incidentally, one of my ribbons is indeed for good behavior. :D

Airman Doors, USAF

08-11-2011, 10:45 PM

Rule of thumb is "All or Nothing". If you wear authorized medals and/or ribbons, you wear all of them. Now, what is considered authorized varies from uniform to uniform and service to service (for instance, Airmen can't currently wear Army decorations that they earn, IIRC)

This is correct. It gets cumbersome for some people like my old Chief Master Sergeant who had wings, an occupational badge from a previous career field, and enough ribbons that they tapered down to two across the top. They almost went to the top of the shoulder. They do have to sit "on but not above" the welt for the "pocket", which actually isn't one. I only have four rows (it should be five or even six, but I don't care enough to get it updated) so it's more like what the Colonel has. It's still a pain in the butt to put together, though.

As for our "tuxedo", all services have service dress uniforms and mess dress uniforms. Mess dress is only really required for senior NCOs and officers, so I don't have one, which is fine with me because they're stupid expensive for something you might wear a few times in your entire career. What you see in the picture is the service dress uniform. It's certainly not unique to the Air Force, though the blandness of it certainly is. It's a damn sight better than General McPeak's vision of what we should look like, though. Thank God those were long gone before I got in. My sister had to suffer through it, though. Flight suit-type nametags on BDUs? That's just lazy.

spifflog

08-11-2011, 10:55 PM

This is correct.
Not to be a pain in the ass, but as has been pointed out up thread, this may be true for the Air Force, but it's not true for the Navy, or the possibly the other services.

Airman Doors, USAF

08-11-2011, 11:03 PM

Not to be a pain in the ass, but as has been pointed out up thread, this may be true for the Air Force, but it's not true for the Navy, or the possibly the other services.

Two things:

1) He (and I) are in the Air Force, so that's what we were clearly talking about.

2) The subject in question is in the Air Force, thus "all or nothing" applies.

That you guys have resolved the non-issue about the other services above merely saves me the trouble of having to address it. Except it didn't.

Raguleader

08-12-2011, 03:51 AM

This is correct. It gets cumbersome for some people like my old Chief Master Sergeant who had wings, an occupational badge from a previous career field, and enough ribbons that they tapered down to two across the top. They almost went to the top of the shoulder. They do have to sit "on but not above" the welt for the "pocket", which actually isn't one. I only have four rows (it should be five or even six, but I don't care enough to get it updated) so it's more like what the Colonel has. It's still a pain in the butt to put together, though.

As for our "tuxedo", all services have service dress uniforms and mess dress uniforms. Mess dress is only really required for senior NCOs and officers, so I don't have one, which is fine with me because they're stupid expensive for something you might wear a few times in your entire career. What you see in the picture is the service dress uniform. It's certainly not unique to the Air Force, though the blandness of it certainly is. It's a damn sight better than General McPeak's vision of what we should look like, though. Thank God those were long gone before I got in. My sister had to suffer through it, though. Flight suit-type nametags on BDUs? That's just lazy.

To be fair, the badge from the previous career field (as well as the current one, assuming it wasn't his wings) would be optional, depending on your chain of command. Wings and chaplain's badge are required, of course.

Also, the ABUs, of course, are a huge improvement over the BDUs, being made so that they are heavier, hotter, have pen pockets in useless places designed to snag you on anything you are working around, and of course, unit patches are no longer allowed unless you're a zipper-suited sun god.:mad:

But I digress. :D