Looking for wargame/tabletop miniature recommendations

[Omi no Kami]

I recently had the opportunity to play a (short, decidedly one-sided :)) game of Warhammer 40k with some friends, and had an absolute blast. As such, I was wondering what other tabletop miniature-type games people have enjoyed, that I should be looking into? The wargaming aspect appeals to me more than making and painting figures, so it would be a definite plus if this was something I could buy a rolebook for and mock up with cardboard cutouts/spare change, but I would love to hear about any tabletop-type game that dopers have really enjoyed.

[mlees]

Battletech, originally from FASA, was big in the 90's. (Boardgame, not the coputer games.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech

Lots of opportunity to spend money on figures, and foam-terrain pieces, if you want to. :)

A group of players you "click" with is important, though.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Paging HypnoToad.

[kenobi 65]

WizKids' various "click-base" games were very big a few years ago. Their initial hit was Mage Knight (fantasy), but they also had a comic-book version (HeroClix) and a BattleTech version (MechWarrior), plus a ship-combat game (Pirates of the Spanish Main) which didn't use the click bases.

After a couple of management / ownership changes, they're still making HeroClix. The nice part about those games, from the OP's viewpoint, is that the minis come pre-assembled and pre-painted. One difference from Warhammer is that each mini in the WizKids games represents an individual character (I'm not too familiar with Warhammer, but I'm not sure if a mini in WH represents a character or a unit). OTOH, compared to 6 or 8 years ago, it may be harder to find other people who play those games.

When you go away from minis, towards chits / markers, there's an entirely different segment of wargames, though most of those are based on historical battles, rather than fantasy or sci-fi battles (I'm not sure if the fantasy aspect of Warhammer 40K is a particular appeal to you).

[Odesio]

So far as the fantastical miniatures war games goes, I think it's safe to say that Warhammer and Warhammer 40k pretty much dominates the industry and have been around for a long while. The advantages to Warhammer is that you'll always be able to find a group in almost any city. In addition, the company has longevity and ten years from now you'll probably still be able to find players if you're still interested in playing. The biggest disadvantage is probably the cost. But for what you get I don't find the game all that much more expensive than a lot of other games.

[FinnAgain]

(I'm not too familiar with Warhammer, but I'm not sure if a mini in WH represents a character or a unit).

Kind of a blend. There are some models that represent named characters in the fluff, or even unique creatures in a swarm. Some larger creatures make up a whole 'unit' themselves. Most small creatures, however, get put together to make a unit. So you'll have, say, 10 space marines together and they're a unit, and as they get shot up, the unit loses strength.

By the way, my answer to the OP, if you like 40K, is to play 40K but (if you have some extra cash) try to buy up some pre-painted figures on ebay. Especially in this economy, there will be some people who'd like to get rid of their plastic monsters and will need the money for rent/food much more.

[Zeriel]

My absolute favorite is Heavy Gear--it's essentially Battletech without a lot of bullshit. Mecha function a lot more like battlesuit infantry (like, say, XV-8s for you WH40k fans) than like walking siege engines, and there's a lot of room for a wide variety of team types that all use the same basic rules for attack/defense/maneuver. Rules are included for tanks, hover, vtol, and air support, and the minis are reasonably cheap to boot and can be had pre-painted in some cases.

[kenobi 65]

By the way, my answer to the OP, if you like 40K, is to play 40K but (if you have some extra cash) try to buy up some pre-painted figures on ebay. Especially in this economy, there will be some people who'd like to get rid of their plastic monsters and will need the money for rent/food much more.

I used to frequent the eBay miniatures section (looking for painted D&D minis). I'd also see an awful lot of people selling large groups of either unpainted or partially-painted WH minis. It did seem like a fair number of people started to get into it, and then decided, "nah, that's too much work."

[FinnAgain]

Yeah, it can be a lot of work and a lot of money to play 40K, and especially these days, there will generally be a few people at any given point who are selling a complete, or an almost complete army list that's already been painted. It may not be painted as well as one might prefer, but it'll be painted a lot of the time.

[Jules Andre]

I play Warhammer Fantasy and have a good time with it. I'm the opposite from the OP though, I like to paint and put together the miniatures. The actual playing is usually less fun, depending on seriously the game is taken.

The cost of Warhammer is significant, but eBay is a fantastic resource and you can always find a good deal or two per week on any of the armies. Harder than it used to be with so many people using eBay for their business, but there are still bargains to be had.

There is a lot of momentum for the newer games from Privateer Press called Warmachine and Hordes (i think?). The models are of exceptional quality and a better price than Games Workshop (Warhammer and 40k) stuff. Games Workshop makes it a habit to screw their customers on price once per year, at minimum (they're known for a yearly increase, even if they release a product with cheaper base materials). I have no experience playing the Privateer Press games though, don't know how good they are.

[Jules Andre]

Yeah, it can be a lot of work and a lot of money to play 40K, and especially these days, there will generally be a few people at any given point who are selling a complete, or an almost complete army list that's already been painted. It may not be painted as well as one might prefer, but it'll be painted a lot of the time.

It's really easy to strip the paint job without harming the miniature (as in, not using paint thinner), so this is one of the very best ways to collect an army on the cheap. Poorly painted minis fetch a much lower price than unpainted, unassembled, new models.

[FinnAgain]

It's really easy to strip the paint job without harming the miniature (as in, not using paint thinner), so this is one of the very best ways to collect an army on the cheap. Poorly painted minis fetch a much lower price than unpainted, unassembled, new models.

Yeep, I've gotten a bunch of mine that way: Simple Green, an old pot, an a toothbrush are awesome.

But the OP doesn't want to paint his own, IIRC.

[CandidGamera]

Simple Green! That's what I was trying to remember was recommended to me for cleaning minis..

*Goes to scribble down a note*

[Jules Andre]

Simple Green! That's what I was trying to remember was recommended to me for cleaning minis..

*Goes to scribble down a note*
Just make sure to get stuff in the big jug that isn't as diluted. From what I understand, the stuff in spray bottles isn't as strong or as good.

[N9IWP]

If you are looking for smaller unit count, there is Warmachine and Malifaux
I don't know much about them, other than some of the boardgame podcasts I listen too also discuss miniature games.
Axis and Allies : War at Sea ships (and planes) are pre-painted (and the land ones also I assume)

But finding what people around you play is important. If you are the only one who plays/has Wartech(tm), that will not be fun if you actually want to play (and not just collect pewter* and paint)

Brian
who calls 40K Warhammer $40,000
*or whatever they are made of these days

[FinnAgain]

If you want cardboard, there's also something like this. (http://www.boardgameinfo.com/gamedb/display-picture.phtml?picid=3763) You may even meet a 40k troupe who'll let you play with cardboard that 'counts as' whatever. But I wouldn't bet on it...

[Sitnam]

Games Workshop is a complete money sink and produces poor war games at best.

But if you like miniatures, are looking for an introductory war game, and you don't want to paint, you could do worse than Mage Knight or Heroclix.

Tide of Iron (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/22825/tide-of-iron) is pretty good, not painted and some scenarios are a little unbalanced but at least the rules are tight.

As N9IWP said, Axis and Allies makes collectable prepainted miniatures for both land and sea.

[Sitnam]

but I would love to hear about any tabletop-type game that dopers have really enjoyed.
Ok, I have to go to bed but I just cannot help myself.

Napoleon's Triumph (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18098/napoleons-triumph) - Simply the best war game I have ever played. Not a lot of rules, but its so innovative it'll take some time to learn, but damn it is so worth it. You can easily grab a new copy for $30 and your war gaming bucks will never go farther.

No Retreat! (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38877/no-retreat) - Operation Barbarossa in two hours or so. Dynamic, simple, elegant, cheap.

Twilight Struggle (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-struggle) - The Cold War, the only way that subject could have been tackled.

Paths of Glory (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/91/paths-of-glory) - WWI the only way it could have been done.

[Bosstrain]

I find it hard to believe no one's even mentioned chess, It's a wargame, comes in all sizes, and usually goes on a tabletop (also happens to look nice as decor). I realize what the OP is talking about, just had to give my .02, I don't play chess much any more, mainly 'cause people I know, know I'll win ever time....unless distracted, which is their new strategy ;) (chess is fun like that)

[Zeriel]

The last Warhammer/40K group that I played with would let you use cardboard tokens and whatnot for your armies as long as you appeared to be playtesting the hobby and not just a cheapskate (yeah, I know, but hell, I'll play with cardboard tokens. I don't give a crap.)

I am willing to bet that a lot of this is encouraged by the game stores, which tend to A) be the only places with tables big enough for a larger-scale battle with cool terrain included and B) prohibit non-official minis on their gaming tables, for obvious profit motivated reasons (and I wouldn't be surprised if Games Workshop made this part of the reseller agreement, too).

I find it hard to believe no one's even mentioned chess, It's a wargame, comes in all sizes, and usually goes on a tabletop (also happens to look nice as decor). I realize what the OP is talking about, just had to give my .02, I don't play chess much any more, mainly 'cause people I know, know I'll win ever time....unless distracted, which is their new strategy ;) (chess is fun like that)

*sigh* While I recognize there's a spectrum of abstraction levels in terms of realism in wargames, and that the line between "wargame" and "regular board game" is fuzzy in some cases, chess is waaaay over on the "too abstract to be a 'wargame'" side of it.
Also, it's not hard to believe at all, because no one actually calls chess a wargame in real life except for the kind of hipsters who have little leather-bound copies of The Art of War.

[Sitnam]

I find it hard to believe no one's even mentioned chess,
Perhaps we assumed the OP was familiar.

[Capitaine Zombie]

Games Workshop is a complete money sink and produces poor war games at best.


That's the least you can say, but by focusing on an extensive background they managed to completely dominate the market. Since the OP refers and seems to enjoy that mass of background info, maybe he's looking for direct rivals of GW games. Not "proper" wargames.

[Sitnam]

That's the least you can say, but by focusing on an extensive background they managed to completely dominate the market. Since the OP refers and seems to enjoy that mass of background info, maybe he's looking for direct rivals of GW games. Not "proper" wargames.
Fair enough. I guess I was focusing on the bolded aspects of:
The wargaming aspect appeals to me more than making and painting figures, so it would be a definite plus if this was something I could buy a rolebook for and mock up with cardboard cutouts/spare change, but I would love to hear about any tabletop-type game that dopers have really enjoyed.

[Omi no Kami]

Whoops, I guess I should've been more specific... my only hard rule is that it be fun, which is subjective enough to be fairly useless, but in general I'm just as likely to enjoy something rife with outside mythology as I am a bare-bones number-crunching game.

For tabletop games, however, I find the number-crunching to be the most fun part-my ideal wargame would probably involve a bunch of preparation beforehand (working out what units to populate my army with, customizing unit equipment with an eye toward emphasizing whatever attributes I'm building my force around, figuring out some initial possible deployments and considering how my prospective army would be able to respond to unexpected twists) before play.

So in general I'm a rules and numbers nut, but I can probably get enthusiastic about almost any wargame that's decently well-designed and fun to play.

[Zeriel]

Whoops, I guess I should've been more specific... my only hard rule is that it be fun, which is subjective enough to be fairly useless, but in general I'm just as likely to enjoy something rife with outside mythology as I am a bare-bones number-crunching game.

For tabletop games, however, I find the number-crunching to be the most fun part-my ideal wargame would probably involve a bunch of preparation beforehand (working out what units to populate my army with, customizing unit equipment with an eye toward emphasizing whatever attributes I'm building my force around, figuring out some initial possible deployments and considering how my prospective army would be able to respond to unexpected twists) before play.

So in general I'm a rules and numbers nut, but I can probably get enthusiastic about almost any wargame that's decently well-designed and fun to play.

In this case I'm going to re-recommend Heavy Gear. The vehicle creation system is, while a bit mathy, sufficiently complete that the same system designs anything from a one-man jetpack to a magnetic-levitation land-based battleship, and everything in between. Typically you agree on a tactical situation and a point total, and then just about anything else goes.

[Sitnam]

So in general I'm a rules and numbers nut, but I can probably get enthusiastic about almost any wargame that's decently well-designed and fun to play.
Case Blue (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29285/case-blue) - war game dealing with the southern portion of the Eastern Front in WWII. 3600 counters, 10 maps provide days upon days of accounting fun as you are asked to arm, replace, resupply and fuel each unit. It's not really my cup of tea, but it's rated 8.47 on Board Game Geek making it one of the highest rated games on that site. However it's certainly not for the novice war gamer so I'd recommend trying one of the others I mentioned before investing in this monster.

If you scroll down on each of my links you can read reviews from regular players to see if the game is what you're looking for. Some are out of print but you can find them used pretty easily.

[willthekittensurvive?]

Maybe not what the OP asked for, but you could check out spartan games and their new game: Dystopian Wars, (http://www.spartangames.co.uk/galleries/dystopian-wars-gallery)

its a steam/diesel punk miniature wargame with Victorian dreadnoughts (http://forum.spartangames.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5356.0) versus Pruisian zeppelins (http://forum.spartangames.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7134.0) (both with Carrier-decks mounted on top of the massive ships) versus the Japanese mechanical squid

I think the prices are reasonable, 30 euro for basic fleet, 20 euro for the carrier and a lot of small planes,you get a lot of ships and the level of detail is very high(a little bit less fun when you are painting the mini's)

I for one think it should be the official game of the SDMB!

[bump]

Case Blue (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29285/case-blue) - war game dealing with the southern portion of the Eastern Front in WWII. 3600 counters, 10 maps provide days upon days of accounting fun as you are asked to arm, replace, resupply and fuel each unit.

As a tabletop miniature player (BattleTech, 40K, WFB, Space Hulk, etc...) and a long time video game player, why in the world would you want to play that game on a tabletop?

That sort of detail seems much better organized and managed on a computer, with the bonus that if someone bumps the table, your units aren't out of place.

[Zeriel]

As a tabletop miniature player (BattleTech, 40K, WFB, Space Hulk, etc...) and a long time video game player, why in the world would you want to play that game on a tabletop?

That sort of detail seems much better organized and managed on a computer, with the bonus that if someone bumps the table, your units aren't out of place.

As a long-time fan of the Avalon Hill counters and tabletops games, it only took playing V for Victory just once to cause me to NEVER break one out physically ever again (except for GEV/Ogre, but no suitable computer version exists that I've found).

[Ibanez]

Whoops, I guess I should've been more specific... my only hard rule is that it be fun, which is subjective enough to be fairly useless, but in general I'm just as likely to enjoy something rife with outside mythology as I am a bare-bones number-crunching game.

For tabletop games, however, I find the number-crunching to be the most fun part-my ideal wargame would probably involve a bunch of preparation beforehand (working out what units to populate my army with, customizing unit equipment with an eye toward emphasizing whatever attributes I'm building my force around, figuring out some initial possible deployments and considering how my prospective army would be able to respond to unexpected twists) before play.

So in general I'm a rules and numbers nut, but I can probably get enthusiastic about almost any wargame that's decently well-designed and fun to play.

If your a WWII history fan you'd likely enjoy Avanlon Hill's Advanced Squad Leader (http://www.multimanpublishing.com/Products/tabid/58/CategoryID/4/Default.aspx). ASL then.

It's been around for a few decades and has undergone many revisions. If you like number crunching this is it, very detailed and fun.

The rule book is a binder. It's large but there's a newbies chapter to get you started.

I remember playing a Red Barricades (Stalingrad) campaign very big game by ASL standards. The scenario was 12 turns long we were on turn 2, 14 hrs later. Most games though are about from 4-6hrs.

What I liked about the Red Barricades module is that the huge map was created based on aerial historical photographs of Stalingrad.

[Sitnam]

As a tabletop miniature player (BattleTech, 40K, WFB, Space Hulk, etc...) and a long time video game player, why in the world would you want to play that game on a tabletop?

That sort of detail seems much better organized and managed on a computer, with the bonus that if someone bumps the table, your units aren't out of place.
I said it wasn't my cup of tea, but perhaps it'd appeal to a guy who is a self described 'rules and numbers nut'.

I'm trying to think of games he would like based on his interests.

[Sitnam]

If your a WWII history fan you'd likely enjoy Avanlon Hill's Advanced Squad Leader (http://www.multimanpublishing.com/Products/tabid/58/CategoryID/4/Default.aspx). ASL then.

It's been around for a few decades and has undergone many revisions. If you like number crunching this is it, very detailed and fun.

The rule book is a binder. It's large but there's a newbies chapter to get you started.
It's even easier than that, for little investment in effort and money the starter kit (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9823/advanced-squad-leader-starter-kit-1) is a good way to get your feet wet. Or decide it isn't for you.

[notquitekarpov]

If you don't like painting miniatures you could think about board wargames too.

Explore this site http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wargames