PDA

View Full Version : Will there be gravity in heaven?


copperwindow
08-12-2011, 02:11 AM
Does the bible give any clues as to weather or not there will be any gravity in heaven? I'm wondering, because that may explain why angels have wings..

Der Trihs
08-12-2011, 02:20 AM
In that case presumably they'd also have a second pair of hands instead of feet. Quaddie angels!

copperwindow
08-12-2011, 02:22 AM
In that case presumably they'd also have a second pair of hands instead of feet. Quaddie angels!

Why is that?

Ambivalid
08-12-2011, 02:25 AM
Does the bible give any clues as to weather or not there will be any gravity in heaven? I'm wondering, because that may explain why angels have wings..

I don't know what the Bible has to say about gravity; but I DO know that there better NOT be gravity in heaven or else there's going to be a whole lot of saggy-boobed women feeling eternally let down. :(

SenorBeef
08-12-2011, 02:28 AM
I don't know what the Bible has to say about gravity; but I DO know that there better NOT be gravity in heaven or else there's going to be a whole lot of saggy-boobed women feeling eternally let down. :(

It's much easier to just have superboobs than to rearrange your environment for zero gravity. The lack of gravity also isn't that flattering for grandma tits anyway.

Trust me, I did my thesis on this subject.

Der Trihs
08-12-2011, 02:37 AM
Why is that?Sci-fi joke.

Bryan Ekers
08-12-2011, 10:14 AM
Well, if heaven is a "forever and ever, unto eternity" kinda place, the laws of thermodynamics won't apply, so I'm not sure it's safe to assume anything about the law of gravity.

Lobohan
08-12-2011, 10:43 AM
Satan fell to Earth. You may end the thread now.

Frodo
08-12-2011, 10:53 AM
In that case presumably they'd also have a second pair of hands instead of feet. Quaddie angels!

GalacTech has subsidiaries in Heaven?

Kearsen
08-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Satan fell to Earth. You may end the thread now.

Did he fall in the real sense or did he fall (from grace)

What if he was thrown (towards the Earth which caught him up in the gravitational pull) and he now can't leave?

He might be you. Or Obama

kayaker
08-12-2011, 11:03 AM
Satan fell to Earth. You may end the thread now.

So much for gravity. What about gravitas?

Rhythmdvl
08-12-2011, 11:29 AM
So much for gravity. What about gravitas?

All I know is there better be some good gravy!

kanicbird
08-12-2011, 12:12 PM
Here are some verses that shed some light:


He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men

The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: “Fellow Ephesians, doesn’t all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven?

Though it may be falling as in a space object caught in the gravity of the planet:
Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.
Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

I do personally believe there is some gravity, but much less then here.

Lobohan
08-12-2011, 12:13 PM
Did he fall in the real sense or did he fall (from grace)Yes.

What if he was thrown (towards the Earth which caught him up in the gravitational pull) and he now can't leave?Unlikely. The men who wrote the story thought that the sky was a solid dome covering the Earth. They certainly didn't possess the knowledge to come up that version of the story.

He might be you. Or ObamaI can say, at least, that it isn't me. Although, I suppose I'd say that either way.

Polycarp
08-12-2011, 12:23 PM
In that case presumably they'd also have a second pair of hands instead of feet. Quaddie angels!

When it says the streets were paved by Silver, that was an acknowledgment of the engineering! :D

===

In all seriousness, for anyone whose theology has moved beyond "God is like Grampa, only more so" or 'If God is omnipotent, can He make a stone so big and heavy that He can't move it?", Heaven is supposed to be, after bodily death, in the beatific, utterly fulfilling state of spiritual communion and immediate presence of an illimitable God who nonetheless knows and loves you individually and personally. May I request that, without making an assertion about the objective reality of that premise, it nonetheless be accepted as the accurate concept of what Heaven purportedly is? I.e., that concept may be debated and shot down by skeptical analysis, but bringing up the wingety spirits with harps sitting on clouds bit is erecting a strawman. The Biblical and Patristic descriptions of Heaven as a place with gold battlements and onyx walls are metaphorical for the illimitable richness which Christians saw in that concept.

Hence assertions about Heaven as place and inquiries about its gravity, escape velocity, etc., are as absurd as asking the mass of the speed of light or the temperature of evolution. In Heaven there is no beer -- but you get high on God instead. That this may not have been some people['s thing was blithely ignored by the conceptualizers of Heaven.

kanicbird
08-12-2011, 12:26 PM
Unlikely. The men who wrote the story thought that the sky was a solid dome covering the Earth. They certainly didn't possess the knowledge to come up that version of the story.
.

I'd say that doesn't really matter that the men writing didn't understand astrophysics. God would be giving it to them in a way that they could understand and also in a way that people with other knowledge would understand.

Polycarp
08-12-2011, 12:29 PM
GalacTech has subsidiaries in Heaven?

No. GalacTech is a subsidiary of Hell. (So is Jackson's Whole.) Cite: Bujold, L.M., The Destructive Testing of Habitat Engineers, sometimes published as Falling Free :)

Lobohan
08-12-2011, 12:32 PM
I'd say that doesn't really matter that the men writing didn't understand astrophysics. God would be giving it to them in a way that they could understand and also in a way that people with other knowledge would understand.Is that why the Bible is completely wrong on many, if not all of its claims about the natural world?

They thought the sky was a rock dome. That's not a metaphor for primitives. That's a guess that primitives made because they didn't have the requisite knowledge to make up a more believable story. That doesn't mean they're stupid. It means they were ignorant.

It certainly suggests they weren't guided by a deity that actually knew what did happen.

Voyager
08-12-2011, 12:49 PM
When it says the streets were paved by Silver, that was an acknowledgment of the engineering! :D



Dylan, of course, has the final word on this:

Well, I don't know, but I've been told
The streets in heaven are lined with gold
I ask you how things could get much worse
If the Russians happen to get up there first.
Wowee' pretty scary!

Rhythmdvl
08-12-2011, 12:49 PM
They thought the sky was a rock dome. Now we know better.

It's Thunder.

kanicbird
08-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Is that why the Bible is completely wrong on many, if not all of its claims about the natural world?

There is the physical reality and there is the spiritual reality. The physical world which we normally work in is but a shadow on Plato's cave reflecting the spiritual reality. Many times scriptures tell of what is happening in the spiritual, not the physical, which is just a reflection.

The spiritual is the true vision but there are parallels of the physical world, though not always lined up.

To see the difference here are some verses from Revelation:

5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

Do you really expect to see a black horse galloping across the earth? Some do. Revelation IMHO is mostly revelation of what is happening in the spiritual, not the physical, but there is a reflection in our physical world.

Here is a spiritual interpretation of the above:

- Black (the color of the horse) represents oil
- Horse is the driving force
- The scales is a balance in price between food cost and fuel costs, the 2 are now becoming directly linked (as farmers can chose to plant food or fuel crops and that will be based on price)
-oil and wine equate to bio-diesel and ethanol, process that will not be able to be disruptive even though it will raise the price of food for many to the point that they will work all day just to buy that day's food.


That's not to say this is the only interpretation, but in the spiritual the black horse has ridden and the above is one of the effects that manifest in the physical world. Note St John didn't need to know about oil or refining, though knowing oil and wine and perhaps fermentation helps him explain what he saw.

So the bible is not wrong about the black horse, as there is a black horse, but we only see the shadows and after effects shadows.

Lobohan
08-12-2011, 01:08 PM
There is the physical reality and there is the spiritual reality.No, there isn't. You are asserting a spiritual reality because it fits your religious beliefs, not because it's real and there is evidence for it.

The physical world which we normally work in is but a shadow on Plato's cave reflecting the spiritual reality. Many times scriptures tell of what is happening in the spiritual, not the physical, which is just a reflection.Nonsense. Utter, remorseless nonsense. "Oh, when the bible is false, it's actually true in another dimension."

The spiritual is the true vision but there are parallels of the physical world, though not always lined up.Again, you are asserting a separate dimension to make all the false stuff true. If you were in school and failed a test, did you tell the teacher that the answers were correct in another dimension?

To see the difference here are some verses from Revelation:



Do you really expect to see a black horse galloping across the earth? Some do. Revelation IMHO is mostly revelation of what is happening in the spiritual, not the physical, but there is a reflection in our physical world.

Here is a spiritual interpretation of the above:

- Black (the color of the horse) represents oil
- Horse is the driving force
- The scales is a balance in price between food cost and fuel costs, the 2 are now becoming directly linked (as farmers can chose to plant food or fuel crops and that will be based on price)
-oil and wine equate to bio-diesel and ethanol, process that will not be able to be disruptive even though it will raise the price of food for many to the point that they will work all day just to buy that day's food.


That's not to say this is the only interpretation, but in the spiritual the black horse has ridden and the above is one of the effects that manifest in the physical world. Note St John didn't need to know about oil or refining, though knowing oil and wine and perhaps fermentation helps him explain what he saw.

So the bible is not wrong about the black horse, as there is a black horse, but we only see the shadows and after effects shadows.I suppose in another dimension your post was cogent and convincing. Sadly, I live in this dimension.

kanicbird
08-12-2011, 02:13 PM
No, there isn't. You are asserting a spiritual reality because it fits your religious beliefs, not because it's real and there is evidence for it.
.

Actually no religious belief was needed, I just needed God to open my spiritual senses which we all have.

I guess you are not acquainted with string theory (or string model) or m theory.

People have know about different dimensions at least since the cave analogy of Plato, and scientists are just starting to grasp it today.

In a 2d world, it would be very hard for a flatlander to find proof of a 3d world. Can we say the same for 3d beings finding proof of a 12d world?

Lobohan
08-12-2011, 03:32 PM
Actually no religious belief was needed, I just needed God to open my spiritual senses which we all have. Or, you are deluding your self into believing that because it gives you comfort. I wonder what is more likely?

I guess you are not acquainted with string theory (or string model) or m theory.I am acquainted enough with them to know that you're not. :D

People have know about different dimensions at least since the cave analogy of Plato, and scientists are just starting to grasp it today.

In a 2d world, it would be very hard for a flatlander to find proof of a 3d world. Can we say the same for 3d beings finding proof of a 12d world?So your method of building arguments is:
[Assertion] is proved by [Thing You Do Not Understand].

Let me try to use that:
The existence of vampires is proved by the rules of football.

Sitnam
08-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Gravity is just a theory.

In school it must be taught along side Intelligent Falling as an alternative viewpoint.

kanicbird
08-12-2011, 05:38 PM
Or, you are deluding your self into believing that because it gives you comfort. I wonder what is more likely?

I am acquainted enough with them to know that you're not. :D

So your method of building arguments is:
[Assertion] is proved by [Thing You Do Not Understand].

Let me try to use that:
The existence of vampires is proved by the rules of football.

Your argument is not with me my friend, it is with the great philosophers of antiquity who have observed other dimensions and modern scientists who have found that they are not able to explain the natural observed world in just 3 dimensions but require quite a few more. Not to mention a very popular book full of stories :D