Jurassic Park Debates: Robert Muldoon vs. Roland Tembo

[Freudian Slit]

It seems like it's Jurassic Park fever on the boards of late, and I'm doing my part to encourage it.

So, Robert Muldoon, the gamekeeper of Jurassic Park? He's badass and comes with not one, but two, meme-worthy phrases: "Shooooooooooooot her!" and "Clevah girl!"

Then there's Roland Tembo of Lost World. What he lacks in hair and memes, he makes up for with his ability to take down a Rex. Also, his ability to literally beat someone up with one hand tied behind his back. (This was in a deleted scene, not in the actual film.)

I'm torn, really I am. I think I might go with Roland, only because (at least in the films) we don't get to see Muldoon shoot all that many dinos. In the book he does get to tranquilize the Rex, like Muldoon. It's tough, though.

JP fans, what say ye?

[dropzone]

I went with Roland because I miss Pete Postlethwaite.

[Mahaloth]

Muldoon because he is more memorable and is in a way better movie.

[cmyk]

Postlethwaite is (was) an amazing actor, there's no doubt. And he made the best character next to Ian Malcolm in Lost World. He even had a great monologue when he was in the Jeep talking about his "fee" to Ludlow.

But... Muldoon was wise, not just knowledgable, cunning and shrewd. He knew there was something going on with those 'raptors. You hung on almost every line he said ("They never attack the same place twice... they're testing the fences..."). There was a spark in his eye. He was always calm, always collected, even when the shit hit the fan. The only time he ever really raised his voice was to get through to Ellie and save her life -- and for that, he died. His very last words was a respect for the very animal he knew would eat him. The man's not only kickass, he's a frikkin' hero.

Muldoon, all the way.

[heathen earthling]

Both characters are depicted by actors who are dead now.

I voted for Muldoon.

[dropzone]

Postlethwaite is (was) an amazing actor, there's no doubt. And he made the best character next to Ian Malcolm in Lost World. He even had a great monologue when he was in the Jeep talking about his "fee" to Ludlow.

But... Muldoon was wise, not just knowledgable, cunning and shrewd. He knew there was something going on with those 'raptors. You hung on almost every line he said ("They never attack the same place twice... they're testing the fences..."). There was a spark in his eye. He was always calm, always collected, even when the shit hit the fan. The only time he ever really raised his voice was to get through to Ellie and save her life -- and for that, he died. His very last words was a respect for the very animal he knew would eat him. The man's not only kickass, he's a frikkin' hero.

Muldoon, all the way.(wiping away a tear of admiration) Can I change my vote?

[Freudian Slit]

I'm a little tempted, too, dropzone.

I think the deleted Lost World scene really made him for me. I love when he tells the asshole tourist in Mombasa that he "is no gentleman" and when asked if that's meant to be an insult, says, "I can think of none greater."

[AClockworkMelon]

Postlethwaite is (was) an amazing actor, there's no doubt. And he made the best character next to Ian Malcolm in Lost World. He even had a great monologue when he was in the Jeep talking about his "fee" to Ludlow.

But... Muldoon was wise, not just knowledgable, cunning and shrewd. He knew there was something going on with those 'raptors. You hung on almost every line he said ("They never attack the same place twice... they're testing the fences..."). There was a spark in his eye. He was always calm, always collected, even when the shit hit the fan. The only time he ever really raised his voice was to get through to Ellie and save her life -- and for that, he died. His very last words was a respect for the very animal he knew would eat him. The man's not only kickass, he's a frikkin' hero.

Muldoon, all the way.*Standing ovation!*

Really, Slit, that you could choose anyone over Muldoon makes me a sad panda.

Btw, you guys might be interested in this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jurassic_Park_characters#Robert_Muldoon):

The non-canon Jurassic Park comic sequels, published by Topps comics, also depict Muldoon surviving the Raptor attack. The pretense for this was that Muldoon had become so acquainted with the raptors that they were prone to play around, and the attack seen on film was ostensibly just the raptors playing with him.lol

[Freudian Slit]

*bows head* I'm sorry, ACM. I did say it was a tough choice!

Yeah, playing with him? No...

I like the idea of Muldoon being alive but that's a pretty laughable way of explaining his death away.

[AClockworkMelon]

I like the idea of Muldoon being alive but that's a pretty laughable way of explaining his death away.In the book I believe he kills his way out (never to return in any sequels). Apparently there were rumors of him returning for future films but the actor died.

[Lancia]

In the book, didn't Muldoon get killed by a raptor? It's been a while since I read it, but I remember Henry Wu going out on a roof or something to distract the raptors while Ellie tries to make a getaway for the auxiliary power bunker, and Wu getting eaten. At the same time, Muldoon is trapped in a pipe or something, shooting raptors with a bazooka (that scene should have been in the movie). After Muldoon escapes, doesn't he get killed also?

Either way, Muldoon was better than Roland. Remember, Muldoon was "game warden from Kenya" according to Hammond. Roland was a hunting guide, pure and simple.

[AClockworkMelon]

In the book, didn't Muldoon get killed by a raptor? It's been a while since I read it, but I remember Henry Wu going out on a roof or something to distract the raptors while Ellie tries to make a getaway for the auxiliary power bunker, and Wu getting eaten. At the same time, Muldoon is trapped in a pipe or something, shooting raptors with a bazooka (that scene should have been in the movie). After Muldoon escapes, doesn't he get killed also?

Either way, Muldoon was better than Roland. Remember, Muldoon was "game warden from Kenya" according to Hammond. Roland was a hunting guide, pure and simple.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_Jurassic_Park#Robert_Muldoon):
n the film, Muldoon appears to be killed by raptors, but in the novel, he survives the initial attack by wedging himself in a pipe, during which he severely injures one raptor with a grenade launcher. He manages to kill a few of them instead and escapes the island. He is not mentioned in the novel's sequel.You or someone else will have to confirm or deny that, though. I've never read the book. I've considered it but I'm just wary that the movie will have ruined it for me.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, I just reread it. Muldoon and Genarro both make it off the island.

[Lancia]

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_Jurassic_Park#Robert_Muldoon):
You or someone else will have to confirm or deny that, though. I've never read the book. I've considered it but I'm just wary that the movie will have ruined it for me.

Read it. The movie is great, but doesn't hold a candle to the book.

I have the book at home, will check when I get off work and post Muldoon's fate here.

Edit: Freudian Slit beat me too it. Thanks.

[Infovore]

Tembo did have one cool catch phrase: "I've spent too much time in the company of death." But I still vote for Muldoon and his tiny shorts.

[Freudian Slit]

Read it. The movie is great, but doesn't hold a candle to the book.


I'd say it was good but I'm not sure it's a case of better than. The books both go into detail about science, but I think the movies are a lot more thrilling. The raptors always seemed a lot creepier to me in the movies, too.

Oh, and book Lex sucks.

[Incubus]

I say Muldoon. He was one of the few people who really respected the strength and intelligence of the dinos.

[AClockworkMelon]

Oh, and book Lex sucks.Oh, I don't know, movie Lex was pretty bad... (http://cdn.mos.totalfilm.com/images/h/hacking-child-s-play-00-300-75.jpg)

[cmyk]

*Standing ovation!*

Really, Slit, that you could choose anyone over Muldoon makes me a sad panda.

Btw, you guys might be interested in this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jurassic_Park_characters#Robert_Muldoon):

The non-canon Jurassic Park comic sequels, published by Topps comics, also depict Muldoon surviving the Raptor attack. The pretense for this was that Muldoon had become so acquainted with the raptors that they were prone to play around, and the attack seen on film was ostensibly just the raptors playing with him.

lol

HA! I'm getting the visual of Muldoon saying, "Clevah girl...", the attack, then they roll around in the brush as he initiates a tickle fight. Oh, how they giggled!

[enalzi]

Oh, I don't know, movie Lex was pretty bad... (http://cdn.mos.totalfilm.com/images/h/hacking-child-s-play-00-300-75.jpg)

Hey, that was a UNIX system. She knew it.

[Freudian Slit]

HA! I'm getting the visual of Muldoon saying, "Clevah girl...", the attack, then they roll around in the brush as he initiates a tickle fight. Oh, how they giggled!

Followed by pillow fights and truth or dare.

Infovore, I also like Roland's line: "Let's get this movable feast underway!"

[AClockworkMelon]

I like the very first thing Muldoon says when he meets Grant & CO. "They should all be destroyed." Deadpan and with no smile: He meant it.

I think Muldoon and Tembo would have gotten along, really.

[Skald the Rhymer]

The first JP is loads better than the second. That said, people who voted for Muldoon over Roland are going to Hell. The really BAD part of Hell, where Paris Hilton's going.

I like the very first thing Muldoon says when he meets Grant & CO. "They should all be destroyed." Deadpan and with no smile: He meant it.

I think Muldoon and Tembo would have gotten along, really.

Maybe. Much as I love Roland, I have to question his wisdom on going to the island in the first damn place. But then, Muldoon hadn't beat feet off the first island either.

[Freudian Slit]

I think Muldoon and Tembo would have gotten along, really.

Oh, absolutely. I think they would have liked and respected each other. The one thing I didn't like about Lost World was the implication that Roland was grudgingly growing to respect Nick Van Owen. When they were talking on the long march it seemed they were starting to understand each other a bit. Also, my least favorite part of the movie (OK, besides Rexie lost in San Diego) was the part when Roland goes to look for Dieter after he goes missing and then Ludlow tries to get the rest of the crew going, but no one listens to him (understandably). And then Nick stands up and says, "Let's go" and everyone follows him. Him, the guy responsible for all their equipment being destroyed.

Skald, in a deleted scene it explains a bit of why Roland wants to go. He's bored, having had a bit too much success hunting. There's nothing else for him. Going to the island was crazy but I don't think he really feared death. I think a life free of challenge would have been more of a death for him.

[AClockworkMelon]

Skald, in a deleted scene it explains a bit of why Roland wants to go. He's bored, having had a bit too much success hunting. There's nothing else for him. Going to the island was crazy but I don't think he really feared death. I think a life free of challenge would have been more of a death for him.Remember that Muldoon, in the same conversation I mentioned above, says "I've hunted most things that can hunt you." I think he and Tembo would have gotten along just fine indeed. :D

Slit & Rhymer, you two have read the first book: Does it ever hint at that sort of motivation for Muldoon, too? Or are we left to assume that they just threw enough money at him ("We've spared no expense!")?

Edit: Yes, I'm eager to make Muldoon sound like as much of a badass as possible. I don't know why I like the character so much, especially considering we don't really see that much of him in the first movie. He's just awesome. I suspect I might like Tembo more if the movie he was in hadn't been so bad.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Remember that Muldoon, in the same conversation I mentioned above, says "I've hunted most things that can hunt you." I think he and Tembo would have gotten along just fine indeed. :D

Slit & Rhymer, you two have read the first book: Does it ever hint at that sort of motivation for Muldoon, too? Or are we left to assume that they just threw enough money at him ("We've spared no expense!")?


I don't recall any such motivation being given for him.

[AClockworkMelon]

Sadface.

It doesn't matter! I can just tell that he's tired of wrestling elephants to the ground with his bare hands! That's why he took the job!

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, I don't remember that either. Muldoon does have a drinking problem in the book which he doesn't have in the movie...maybe he turned to alcohol after the elephant wrasslin' got dull? :D

I was reading a Lost World link that criticized a lot of things including some of Roland's decisions...which made me a sad panda. For example, Roland takes the baby Rex from its nest to lure out Papa. All well and good but we know that he's very close to the camp because the flaming car crashes into the tree that he and Ajay are in. But Roland's the one who told Ludlow not to set up camp on a game trail! Also, he carries his elephant gun barrel upward in the rain. But I still think he's awesome.

[bucketybuck]

Sadface.

It doesn't matter! I can just tell that he's tired of wrestling elephants to the ground with his bare hands! That's why he took the job!

Actually, he didn't have to wrestle the elephants, they knew just to roll over on their backs when he raised an eyebrow. Elephants never forget you see, and after that first time, well, lets just say they most definitely will never forget.

[AClockworkMelon]

Actually, he didn't have to wrestle the elephants, they knew just to roll over on their backs when he raised an eyebrow. Elephants never forget you see, and after that first time, well, lets just say they most definitely will never forget.In Muldoon's own words: "They remember..."

[Biggirl]

There's a part of Lost World not in LA? I voted Muldoon.

[PSXer]

Everyone says LA but it's in San Diego.

[bucketybuck]

In Muldoon's own words: "They remember..."

I can't believe I forgot that bit.

[Freudian Slit]

I can't believe I forgot that bit.

Clearly, you aren't a velociraptor.

So which of the two characters had the better hat and/our overall outfit?

[AClockworkMelon]

Muldoon (http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l438/AClockworkMelon/RobertMuldoon.jpg) vs Tembo (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/03/article-1343650-0209A9E30000044D-88_468x662.jpg).

Muldoon (http://stantonmartin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/muldoon.jpg) vs Tembo (http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsP/13992-22252.gif).

Robert Muldoon:
+1 He's got tiny shorts+socks that only he can pull off
+1 He's got a badass hat
+1 Last words before he dies punches the raptor in the face until it dies, "Clever girl..."

Roland Tembo:
+1 He's bald and he's got like a grizzled face
+1 He's got a badass hat
+1 "Remember that chap about twenty years ago? I forget his name. Climbed Everest without any oxygen and came down nearly dead. When they asked him they said 'why did you go up there to die?' He said 'I didn't. I went up there to live.'"

It's pretty close. I considered docking Tembo a point for being in The Lost World but I'll let that slide for now.

[Alessan]

It's pretty close. I considered docking Tembo a point for being in The Lost World but I'll let that slide for now.

Well, what's better - being a good thing in a good movie, or being the best thing in a bad movie?

[GuanoLad]

As a New Zealander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Muldoon), I refuse to vote for anyone named Robert Muldoon.

[AClockworkMelon]

Well, what's better - being a good thing in a good movie, or being the best thing in a bad movie?Answer for yourself. Who's better: Chewbacca in TESB or Doc Faulkner in Bio-Dome?

When you're in a bad movie, being the best isn't difficult (especially when Dr Malcolm is the lead protagonist).

[AClockworkMelon]

Answer for yourself. Who's better: Chewbacca in TESB or Doc Faulkner in Bio-Dome?This isn't an accurate comparison, actually. Muldoon isn't like the fourth best character in Jurassic Park, he's like the second best. So it's more like R2D2 vs Faulkner.

[WarmNPrickly]

Read it. The movie is great, but doesn't hold a candle to the book.

We don't all agree on this. I found the book to be pure trash, and practically unreadable. In fact, I didn't finish it it was so dull. One of the main issues, was how everyone survived attack after attack. There just weren't any surprises.

[Alessan]

That's because Crichton was a hack - a third-rate science fiction writer who succeeded by marketing himself as something other than a science fiction writer.

[Freudian Slit]

This isn't an accurate comparison, actually. Muldoon isn't like the fourth best character in Jurassic Park, he's like the second best. So it's more like R2D2 vs Faulkner.

To clarify, is Alan Grant the best thing in JP?

[AClockworkMelon]

To clarify, is Alan Grant the best thing in JP?I'll give you a hint: The two best characters in the movie are in this picture. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7FAsUT6FePU/TGA7BSnw6KI/AAAAAAAABPc/jpUJWxC4mtw/s1600/jp_434.jpg)

But no, really, I like all the characters in Jurassic Park. I even like Lex when she isn't hacking into computer mainframes and rerouting encryptions.

[Freudian Slit]

Ah. Ahh, of course.

To be fair, I don't think Lex was meant to be doing anything that Mr. Arnold couldn't have done. If he hadn't been eaten by the raptor he could have restarted the system after he got back from the shed.

[AClockworkMelon]

To be fair, I don't think Lex was meant to be doing anything that Mr. Arnold couldn't have done. If he hadn't been eaten by the raptor he could have restarted the system after he got back from the shed.You should read that again to see how silly it sounds.

"She wasn't doing anything that the CHIEF ENGINEER couldn't do."

:p

[Freudian Slit]

OK, fair point. But I know a lot of people criticized her for doing something that even Arnold couldn't do. :)

[AClockworkMelon]

I could accept that a little kid is that good with computers.

And I can also accept Hollywood hacking (complete with 3D panning visual through the files to let the audience know that they're dealing with some high tech shit).

But not the both of them together. That I cannot abide.

[Death of Rats]

She went in and turned on systems. Hell, I am not an l33t haxor, but I understand enough UNIX to do that. It is not like she hack NORAD or something.

Clearly, you aren't a velociraptor.


Neither were the dinos in that movie.

[Infovore]

I'll give you a hint: The two best characters in the movie are in this picture. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7FAsUT6FePU/TGA7BSnw6KI/AAAAAAAABPc/jpUJWxC4mtw/s1600/jp_434.jpg)

I think the two best characters in JP were Ian Malcolm and Muldoon. But I do wonder what sort of pod person took over Malcolm in JP2, since he was a completely different (and much more boring) person. I think the kid ate his brain. He was much better as a supporting character (the smartass expert) than as the "hero" (having to keep his girlfriend and daughter safe and worry about them.)

[cmyk]

Imagine their roles switched for each movie. Neither would work, and I think both would FAIL hard, if either of them played the other's part.

Although, I believe Postlethwaite can pull off anything. But I'll bet if we could clone them from their DNA in the amber I'm sure they were incased in upon burial, and had them reprise the other's role for comparison, we'd cringe at both performances.

IOW, both we forged upon birth by divine forces beyond our comprehension to play those particular roles over their entire careers; anything else was just gravy.

I'm still down with the Muldoon... I just liked his style, y'know?

My favorite characters in JP in order:
T-REX (ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAARRRR!)
Malcolm (Dear God, our lives are in the hands of engineers.) or (Now, there will be dinosaurs on this dino tour, right? Hello? *tap*tap*tap* Hello? *breathes on camera*) or (I hate always being right.) or (Must go faster.)
Muldoon (Even Nedry had sense enough not to turn off the 'raptor fences!)
Arnold (Hold on to your butts.)
Nedry (Huh, whaddoo want? food? I don't have any food. I got no food on me! ...Here boy. Stick. Fetch stick! *throws stick* Fetch stick stupid! Eh, it's no wonder you're extinct.)
Grant (*grabs fence* GAHHHHH!!!!)
Tim (....3!)
Lex *quivering Jello™*
Hammond (You mean to tell me the only one on my side is the blood-thirsty lawyer?!)
Gennaro (Hey!)
Wu (they're um... uh... velociraptor.)
Sattler (Oh, thank God, Mr. Arnold, we thought... Ahhhh!!!)

Answer for yourself. Who's better: Chewbacca in TESB or Doc Faulkner in Bio-Dome?

When you're in a bad movie, being the best isn't difficult (especially when Dr Malcolm is the lead protagonist).

And that's just gold. GOLD!

[cmyk]

Missed the Edit:
I loved Goldblum as Malcolm... but his character in JP was far better than in The Lost World, he became an annoying Dino-Nanny. But he did have some great lines in it.

"Yeh, oooh, ahhh... that's how it always starts. But then the running and the screaming."

"That's the worst idea in the history of bad ideas."

Also, the look on his face when he hears the roar of the T-Rex again for the first time since he'd been back. It sent shivers down my own spine.

[Freudian Slit]

I think it's "taking dinosaurs off this island is the worst idea in a long sad history of bad ideas."

[cmyk]

I think it's "taking dinosaurs off this island is the worst idea in a long sad history of bad ideas."

Ahh, you may be right, I was just going off of memory... so I'm sure I botched most of those lines. ;)

[Freudian Slit]

That's OK. I spend way too much time watching these movies!

[Skald the Rhymer]

She went in and turned on systems. Hell, I am not an l33t haxor, but I understand enough UNIX to do that. It is not like she hack NORAD or something.



Neither were the dinos in that movie.

You're right. It's not that Lex was a master hacker; it's that she was the only one who knew about computers at all, as Grant was a technophobe and her little brother was a little kid. Perhaps Ellie or Malcolm might have done it, but she was occupied with keeping the door closed, and he was injured.

[cmyk]

That's OK. I spend way too much time watching these movies!

You and me both! :)

I've lost count long ago, but I'm guessing I've seen JP upwards of 25 times. Upon first viewing, I about shit mah pants. I was 20, and I'll credit that movie for finally pushing my career into the CG realm. But man, was that a ride the first time I saw it. The group I was with couldn't stop talking about it for at least 2 or 3 hours after. Since I was 5 in '77, I'd say this was my "Star Wars".

Lost World, not so much... maybe 6 or 7 times.

[Infovore]

You and me both! :)

I've lost count long ago, but I'm guessing I've seen JP upwards of 25 times. Upon first viewing, I about shit mah pants. I was 20, and I'll credit that movie for finally pushing my career into the CG realm. But man, was that a ride the first time I saw it. The group I was with couldn't stop talking about it for at least 2 or 3 hours after. Since I was 5 in '77, I'd say this was my "Star Wars".


Oh, yeah. I've seen JP about as many times as you have--I still remember back when it first came out, I went to the theater every Saturday morning for several weeks to watch it again, I loved it so much. The first time I saw it I was absolutely blown away by the CGI. I mean, that stuff still mostly holds up *now*, 17 years later, without looking cheesy or dated. Back then it was amazing. So far above anything else I'd ever seen that there weren't even words to describe it. We saw it with some friends (a bunch of late-20s, early-30s engineer types at the time, all male except me), and one of them literally had to get up and leave the theater during the T-Rex scene. It was *that* intense. To this day that sequence is still not only one of my favorites in the movie, but my favorites in *any* movie.

[Infovore]

You're right. It's not that Lex was a master hacker; it's that she was the only one who knew about computers at all, as Grant was a technophobe and her little brother was a little kid. Perhaps Ellie or Malcolm might have done it, but she was occupied with keeping the door closed, and he was injured.

Malcolm wasn't even in the room at the time--he was with Hammond in another part of the park, IIRC, unless I'm misremembering my timelines. So yeah, all they had was the technophobe, the annoying boy, and Ellie who was too busy trying to keep the doors shut.

Lex was still a little annoying, though. :)

[Freudian Slit]

Malcolm wasn't even in the room at the time--he was with Hammond in another part of the park, IIRC, unless I'm misremembering my timelines. So yeah, all they had was the technophobe, the annoying boy, and Ellie who was too busy trying to keep the doors shut.

Lex was still a little annoying, though. :)

Aw, so much hate for the kids! I really liked hem. Then again, I was about nine when the movie came out so I saw the kids less as brats and more as peers.

You're right that Malcolm and Hammond were in that bunker. Ellie and Muldoon left to get the power turned on and Grant and the kids were never there.

ETA: I was in high school when JP III came out and I found Eric annoying in his ability to survive the island, so maybe it's an age thing?

[AClockworkMelon]

ETA: I was in high school when JP III came out and I found Eric annoying in his ability to survive the island, so maybe it's an age thing?OK, I now officially love Lex. I fucking HATED the kid in JP III. Really? He went and collected T-Rex piss? And he's used it enough to know that it attracts the big one with the fin? And he's been there by himself for weeks? Yet we're supposed to be scared by the adults' attempt to survive for like a fucking day?

FFFFFFFUUUUUUU

[Freudian Slit]

He's also read both Grant and Malcolm's books and knows enough to bond with Grant by trashing Malcolm. This kid was like Alan Grant's wet dream.

[Infovore]

OK, I now officially love Lex. I fucking HATED the kid in JP III. Really? He went and collected T-Rex piss? And he's used it enough to know that it attracts the big one with the fin? And he's been there by himself for weeks? Yet we're supposed to be scared by the adults' attempt to survive for like a fucking day?

FFFFFFFUUUUUUU

Actually, the kid I hated most in all the JP movies was Ian's daughter. She was more annoying than a whole carful of Tims and Lexes, and the whole "let's defeat the raptor with GYMNASTICS!" thing was just...ugh.

While we're on that subject, and please forgive me if this is politically incorrect (I want to have my ignorance fought here--I genuinely don't know)--but one of the things that gave me a lot of trouble with my suspension of disbelief in Lost World was Kelly (the daughter). She was supposed to be Ian's biological child, but she was played by a very dark-skinned African American actress. Even if Ian's wife was also very dark-skinned, what would the odds be that their daughter wouldn't have at least a couple of Ian's traits (lighter dark skin than her mother, for example, or somewhat more mixed-looking features)?

Don't get me wrong--the reasons I found her annoying had nothing to do with her race. She would have been just as annoying no matter what color she was. :D But I just had a hard time finding her believable as Malcolm's daughter.

[AClockworkMelon]

Well Goldblum (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/JeffGoldblum07TIFF.jpg/457px-JeffGoldblum07TIFF.jpg) is of somewhat dark complexion. Olive-skinned I guess. Maybe her mom was African? :p

But yeah, she was annoying too. I guess kids in the Jurassic Park movies just suck ass in general. Well, Tim was cool. He was the only kid in the movies portrayed realistically... though I'm starting to warm to Lex after the other posters' arguments.

So I guess it's Newsflash: The Jurassic Park sequels sucked.

[Freudian Slit]

So, wow, 9 posters liked Roland more to 45 who prefer Muldoon. Maybe we should identify ourselves and start a support group. Then again we might risk ostracism from the rest of the board.

[AClockworkMelon]

Risk? It's already begun. We know who you are. Like so many raptors we've lured you into making your presence known.

[cmyk]

The kids didn't bug me so much. I had read the book about a year before the film hit theaters, so I was a bit surprised they reversed the ages, but looking back I think it was a good decision. Lex was now old enough to have a crush on Grant, and Tim was young enough to have that childhood excitement and obsession with dinosaurs.

My favorite exchange with the kids was when Grant pretended to get electrocuted by the fence they had to climb. The both scream. Lex: That was not funny. Tim: (laughing) That was hilarious. (or did he say "that was cool."?)

Agreed with Infovore on both counts:

The T-Rex scene is one of the best scenes in a movie, ever. And still holds up to today.

and

Ian's biological child not offering any resemblance to himself, totally took me out of the movie. All I could do as I sat there watching their scenes was wonder how there's not any hint of european features in her. Nothing racist at all, just very very unlikely. Then she started using gymnastics to fling velociraptors to and fro, and I think I had a very small aneurism.

[Freudian Slit]

I don't think they ever noted that his daughter was biologically is. In theory he and his wife could have just adopted a black child.

[cmyk]

Risk? It's already begun. We know who you are. Like so many raptors we've lured you into making your presence known.

Kamchatka Surprise! "Clevah girrrrrl..."

[cmyk]

I don't think they ever noted that his daughter was biologically is. In theory he and his wife could have just adopted a black child.

Damn, I can't remember... I'd have to see the movie again, but I thought it was pointed out that she wasn't an adoption. My only real reasoning is, is that's the first thing I wondered, and if that's the case, then why do I get hung up on that minor thing every time.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Risk? It's already begun. We know who you are. Like so many raptors we've lured you into making your presence known.

:confused:

Has ANYTHING I've ever written on this board led you to believe I would respond to this in any way other than putting your assassination in motion?

[Freudian Slit]

Damn, I can't remember... I'd have to see the movie again, but I thought it was pointed out that she wasn't an adoption. My only real reasoning is, is that's the first thing I wondered, and if that's the case, then why do I get hung up on that minor thing every time.

I remember when Nick and Eddie see her, they say something like, "Uh do you see any family resemblance here?" But Ian doesn't say anything about why he has a black daughter.

[Skald the Rhymer]

I remember when Nick and Eddie see her, they say something like, "Uh do you see any family resemblance here?" But Ian doesn't say anything about why he has a black daughter.

I wouldn't have either. You don't imagine that Ian have already heard the question a thousand times and been tired of it? Most likely he was happy they had the class not to be nosy.

I'm black, and I have seven siblings. My skin is a little darker than hot cocoa. My mother was about my complexion; my father is a little darker, but not much. My oldest brother is light-skinned enough to pass for white (and in fact I rather suspect he does just that); one of my sisters is black is midnight. So the little girl in the second movie didn't bother me a bit.

And I liked her gymnastics too.

[Infovore]

Damn, I can't remember... I'd have to see the movie again, but I thought it was pointed out that she wasn't an adoption. My only real reasoning is, is that's the first thing I wondered, and if that's the case, then why do I get hung up on that minor thing every time.

According to Wikipedia, she's his biological daughter. Apparently the reason she's black in the movie (she was white in the book) was that she's an amalgamation of two book characters--Kelly herself and a boy named Arby Benton, who is black. (I have vague memories of this--I did read the book, but I generally prefer the movies to the books for JP stuff.)

ETA, after seeing Skald's post: Okay, ignorance fought then! I still don't like the character, but it was far more about the gymnastics and just the fact that she was there at all (it's hard for Malcolm to be edgy and cynical when he has to be protective) than about the race thing.

[Freudian Slit]

According to Wikipedia, she's his biological daughter. Apparently the reason she's black in the movie (she was white in the book) was that she's an amalgamation of two book characters--Kelly herself and a boy named Arby Benton, who is black. (I have vague memories of this--I did read the book, but I generally prefer the movies to the books for JP stuff.)


I also read that Spielberg met the actress who played Kelly on the set of a Little Princess and really liked her. So it seems less that they had this idea that she "should" be black but more that the actress he liked happened to be black, which always seemed kind of cool to me.

[garygnu]

My problem with Roland is that he was created specifically to be this badass dinosaur nemesis. He is to the T-Rex as Moriarty was to Data. And he's really just Muldoon 2.0. It would have been Muldoon himself, probably, if the first movie didn't kill him off.

[Skald the Rhymer]

On the off chance anybody gives a flip, I've started an IMHO thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14225692#post14225692) about resemblances between parents and children, based on the sub-discussion here about Ian and his daughter.

[Chopper9760]

Muldoon's badass, even in those stupid shorts. He's the original JP badass, he's in the first and better movie, he's paired with better dinosaurs, and he doesn't have heaps of lines or screen time.

It's really an unfair comparison. Tembo is in a crap movie and written by someone desperately trying to write a badass and failing. Spectacularly.

[Mr. Kobayashi]

I went with Roland because I miss Pete Postlethwaite.

Unsurprisingly I agree with this.

[Freudian Slit]

Muldoon's badass, even in those stupid shorts. He's the original JP badass, he's in the first and better movie, he's paired with better dinosaurs, and he doesn't have heaps of lines or screen time.

But could Muldoon fight a guy with one hand literally tied behind his back?

[cmyk]

But could Muldoon fight a guy with one hand literally tied behind his back?

Perhaps not, he's a lover not a fighter. But I'll bet he sure as hell could kick some dino ass on the uneven bars with one hand tied behind his back (AND stick the landing).

[AClockworkMelon]

Wait, Tembo's actor died?

:(

I just saw him in The Town, too.

[Alessan]

Pete Postlethwaite was a wonderful actor; to me, he'll always be Mr. Kobayashi from The Usual Suspects, possibly the scariest lawyer ever to appear in any movie.

[cmyk]

Pete Postlethwaite was a wonderful actor; to me, he'll always be Mr. Kobayashi from The Usual Suspects, possibly the scariest lawyer ever to appear in any movie.

He's the face of intimidating. If he were to walk in a room and just stare at me, I think I'd piss myself.

But, if the room was full of 'ratptors, I'd jump on Muldoon's back and ask him to hold me.

[cmyk]

Wait, Tembo's actor died?

:(

I just saw him in The Town, too.

They's both dead. :(

[Chopper9760]

But could Muldoon fight a guy with one hand literally tied behind his back?

Muldoon wouldn't have gotten tied up in the first place.

[Freudian Slit]

Roland chose to tie his hand back!

[Chopper9760]

I know, that scene really just ramps up what I dislike about Roland. He does way too much talking for his allegedly world-weary character. Tying one hand behind the back smacks of youthful silliness that doesn't mesh well with the rest of his character.

What does he have to bitch about anyway? Luck bastard has spent his whole life hunting with his buddy, cry me a river.

Muldoon probably wouldn't have done any better than Tembo in Lost World and I've never read the books so it's entirely possible that Tembo was the more competent man. However, Muldoon has the advantage in that he doesn't spout clunky, nonsensical dialogue and annoy the piss out of me.

[heathen earthling]

Tembo wasn't in the book at all.