Pyramids and razors

[Francesca]

Hi,

I've been a lurker for a while but this is my first post, so be gentle with me ;)

I remember hearing the "fact" that a razor put in a pyramid will sharpen - the pyramind somehow sharpens the razor blade. To be honest, this sounds like a load of rubbish to me, but JIC does anyone have any info on it?

Fran

[Squink]

It's been a while, but you might try doing a search on the psychologist Wilhelm Reich, or the "orgone" field of life energy which he claimed surrounded the earth and was responsible for such things as the razor sharpening powers of pyramids. It's fascinating stuff whether you believe in such things, or not.

[Ice Wolf]

Cue music from Pyromania by the Alan Parsons Project ...

If you want to risk your skin, Francesca, try it, by all means.

[Francesca]

So you mean pyramids really do sharpen razors?

[Astroboy14]

What??, please...

Can you possibly think of any reason that putting a razor under a pyramid would cause it to become sharper??

Come on!! Francesca, I don't mean to scare you off... (I was a lurker for a long time, and I know how it feels to come out! :) ), but try it for yourself! Take a razor, make it dull (I dunno, shave your armpits for a month or so...), and see if putting it under a pyramid will make it sharp again!

I've never tried this, but I will be willing to bet that it doesn't work!

Uhm, If it DOES work... I'm in for eatin' some SERIOUS crow here... :D


BTW: Welcome, Francesca!!!

[Francesca]

Well that's what i thought! I thought it sounded ridiculous but i've heard it repeated many times and i can't find a debunk on snopes or other places.

I would try it myself but there are factors to think about - does it have to be a sealed pyramid? Big or small? Does it have to geometrically perfect? And what sort of test do you do for sharpness? And how do you do an accurate control?

I've been thinking about this way too much haven't i? :)

[AWB]

My sister, a once-hippie type, gave me a "Pyramid Power" kit back in the 1970's for Christmas. It consisted of a plastic pyramid that stood about 8" high and a 2" cube to use as a pedestal.

The directions basically said to place whatever object you wanted charmed (or whatever) on the pedestal, aligning the sides with the compass directions N/S/E/W. Then you placed the pyramid over them, also aligned N/S/E/W. In a day, your object would be charged with Pyramid Power. :rolleyes:

I was too young to shave, so I never tested it on razors. I tried placing the white queen from my chess set in it, but I don't recall if I played another game against my brother to see if it worked.

Hey, it beat getting a pet rock, which was also big back then.

[dylan_73]

I can't find anything debunking this either.

A search brings up lots of New Age sites that say it works, but with only anecdotal evidence, and the sceptic sites that appear say it's nonsense, but they never seem to have tried it.

I find it hard to believe that such a common idea has never actually been tested....surely someone out there has an answer?

[RickJay]

Originally posted by Francesca
Well that's what i thought! I thought it sounded ridiculous but i've heard it repeated many times and i can't find a debunk on snopes or other places.

This sounds like an accelerated myth, a mutation to an earlier myth where one myth becomes an even greater myth. Say THAT five times fast.

Traditionally the urban myth about pyramids (and I'm sure most myths refer to the Egyptian pyramids, not just any pyramid) is that the stones are so close together you can't slip a razor blade between them. I've heard and seen that a million times. You're the first person I have ever heard say the pyramid will now actually SHARPEN the razor - suggesting that this is a myth of very recent vintage that mutated off the old myth.

Testing this myth is hard because you aren't allowed to just walk up to a pyramid and do whatever you want; they're closely protected by the Egyptian authorities, who reason (correctly) that the pyramids would have people crawling all over them and chipping peices off if you let them.

That said, if someone is claiming the pyramids have magical powers, it's up to THEM to prove they do.

[bwanasimba]

In addition to the alignment NSEW as discussed above, the pyramid has to be a perfect scale model of the pyramid at Giza. I had a book as a kid that discussed this and outlined the "experiments" that "scientists" had conducted. In addition to the razor experiment, the "scientists" also put dead cats in the pyramid (IIRC, it has to be 2/3rds of the way up). Surprise surprise, the dead cats were mummified.

The chapter also discussed how some "cognoscenti" used to wear pyramid shaped hats to "sharpen their minds".

The book was called "Mysteries of the Universe" and was a Marks and Spencer book, but that was thrown out a long time ago (but I'll call my Mum just in case).

LK

[slortar]

Actually, that rumor is probably a few decades old. I have a few "Fate" magazines from the 70's that mention that sort of thing, IIRC. They're also a rather hysterical read for the other articles alone ("Read all about the CRYSTAL SKULL OF DEATH!!!!").

[dylan_73]

Originally posted by RickJay
You're the first person I have ever heard say the pyramid will now actually SHARPEN the razor - suggesting that this is a myth of very recent vintage that mutated off the old myth.


Fraid not. I first heard of this in a book called Supernature (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340404191/o/qid=983976700/sr=8-3/026-0160647-7774058) by Lyall Watson where he said it worked using scale models.

I have that book, but it's a few hundred miles away from me at the moment, so I can't check the exact dimensions required just now.

No matter what you think of this book, I haven't heard of someone disproving this one yet, and I've heard it loads of times since (even Pyramids, by Terry Pratchet makes reference to the idea).

[Francesca]

Funnily enough, the Pratchett book is what got me remembering this myth - i just re-read it :)

[muttrox]

The fact that no one has disproved seems irrelevant. Pyramid Power in a general is a joke. Not every single application has to be tested. If we disprove razors, then next week someone puts out a book claiming that pyramids can whiten your teeth -- are we expected to put a massive clinical double-blinded experiment together to try and disprove that?

It's a ridiculous idea. There are some paranormal claims that seem worth investigating, IMO, this can be dismissed on the face of it.

BTW, is the Terry Pratchett book one of his Discworld novels? From what I've read, he seems like a comedian/writer, not a scientist. Citing him seems like citing Woody Allen, eh?

[RealityChuck]

Well, one reason people think this is "true" is because they make better razor blades these days.

Blades used to be made of carbon steel and went dull very quickly. People learned that you needed to change your blade once a week or suffer the consequences.

Enter stainless steel (and later, other compounds). Blades lasted much longer. However, the razor blade manufacturers never bothered to tell anyone that (for obvious reasons). So people kept tossing their blades long before they got dull.

Enter the pyramid crowd. "Your blades can stay sharp a much longer time," they said. And it was true. The modern, stainless steel blades could go much longer without sharpening -- but that had nothing to do with any pyramids. People would try the pyramid and, for the first time, keep using the blade until it got dull. It lasted weeks. Miracle!

I have a tough beard. When I was shaving, a blade lasted me 3-4 weeks. No pyramids anywhere.

AFAIK, there has no been any scientifically valid experiment to determine whether there is any truth to the assertion, so it has to be considered false until its proponents can back up their claim.

[dylan_73]

Originally posted by muttrox
If we disprove razors, then next week someone puts out a book claiming that pyramids can whiten your teeth -- are we expected to put a massive clinical double-blinded experiment together to try and disprove that?


Ahh, but people have said it works, and have been saying it for years. It seems such an easy thing to test; it's surprising no-one's done it....even if it seems ridiculous...

BTW, is the Terry Pratchett book one of his Discworld novels? From what I've read, he seems like a comedian/writer, not a scientist. Citing him seems like citing Woody Allen, eh?

Yup..Diskworld..heh..I wasn't citing him as an authority on science, but as an example of how commonly known the idea of pyramids sharpening razors is....I was surprised RickJay hadn't heard of it.

RealityChuck: Hmm...that could be right, but I still find it hard to believe no-one's tested this thing.

Don't get me wrong; I can't see any reason why a bit of cardboard cut in a funny shape should affect anything, but I did expect at least some fun experimenting with dead bugs and stuff to test the various pyramid claims...there's just nothing, it seems....

Of course, this could be my opportunity to become the SDMB authority on model pyramids! :)

[Lance Turbo]

This thread reminded me that in my eighth grade language arts class we were shown a film on pyramid power. It included placing razor blades in wire and cardboard pyramids to make them sharper. It also showed people studying for tests wearing goofy looking pyramid hats. That's all I remember but the film lasted an entire class period. We never discussed the film in class and I'm not sure why it was shown to us. In retrospect it was probably just Teacher Hangover Day. BTW this was in 1986 and the film was definitely not new at that time, the pyramid hat wearing students looked like they were from the 50's.

[Chronos]

Quoth dylan73:
I have that book, but it's a few hundred miles away from me at the moment, so I can't check the exact dimensions required just now.That's easy, the ratio of the base lenght to the height is the same as the ratio of the circumfrance of the Earth to its diameter . Before you go getting excited about that,(aha! How did the Egyptians know the size of the Earth?) that's just pi. And before you go getting excited about that, (so, the Egyptians knew pi?), it's just because they measured out the base using measuring wheels.

The only way a pyramid could sharpen a blade is if you rub the edge of the blade against the stones in the right way... Just like any stones.

[Cisco]

Originally posted by RealityChuck
Blades lasted much longer. However, the razor blade manufacturers never bothered to tell anyone that (for obvious reasons).


What reasons?

[muppetsoup]

Originally posted by Cisco
Originally posted by RealityChuck
Blades lasted much longer. However, the razor blade manufacturers never bothered to tell anyone that (for obvious reasons).


What reasons?

If people are using their razor blades longer, they're not buying new ones as often. Don't kick yourself, it happens.

[Squink]

From http://www.orgone.org/
-------
"ORGONE ENERGY. is a Primordial Cosmic Energy; universally present and demonstrable visually, thermically, electroscopically and by means of Geiger-Mueller counters. In the living organism: Bio-energy, Life Energy. Discovered by Wilhelm Reich between 1936 and 1940." .. Selected Writings 1961 by Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust Fund
-----
A search for "pyramid" articles at the above site brings up all sorts of references on their ability to focus energy etc.; including this article: http://www.orgone.org/articles/ax6antot.htm

The pyramid power/ razor sharpening story goes back at least to the mid 1930s.

[SoulFrost]

I had a book as a kid that discussed this and outlined the "experiments" that "scientists" had conducted. In addition to the razor experiment, the "scientists" also put dead cats in the pyramid (IIRC, it has to be 2/3rds of the way up). Surprise surprise, the dead cats were mummified.



I think we had the same book, bwanasimba....

It's in that same book that the author mentions a joke he used to play on his buddies in the Army--he'd leave their razors in the moonlight.

For some reason, the moonlight dulled the blades (or so he claimed.)

This led into the amazing sharpening powers of the mighty pyramid....


Ok...I'll risk a hijack cuz this has bugged me since I was nine.

Is there any possible way that moonlight can dull a razorblade?

-David

[Duck Duck Goose]

Let's talk about how knife edges work.

http://www.furitechnics.com.au/information/techedge.htm

When you sharpen a knife (or a razor blade), you are removing actual molecules of steel from the edge. If you do it right, you end up with a very thin wedge that is only one molecule thick at the thinnest edge of the knife, its cutting edge.

When you use a knife to slice potatoes, you are wearing away that one-molecule-thick layer of steel, so that the edge becomes fatter and fatter. The edge is no longer only one molecule wide--it's now two or three or four molecules wide. The knife is dull.

When someone can explain to me how putting a knife (or razor blade) underneath a pyramid shape can cause steel molecules to fall off the edge of the knife by themselves, thus sharpening the blade, then I'll believe in pyramid power.

And David? When someone can explain to me how putting a knife (or razor blade) out in the moonlight can cause steel molecules to fall off the edge of the blade by themselves, thus dulling the blade, then I'll believe in the power of moonlight to dull razor blades.

:)

[Abe]

Was that by any chance the name of the book that mentions pyramids, razors, and mummified cat corpses, among many other things? I picked that dreck up in the early '80s when I was a credulous child and ended up using it to learn English because I was so interested in finding evidence of the paranormal (no, never found any, but I did find some common sense). OK, I ended up learning English quite well, but the cagal contained in that book almost turned my developing mind into that of a New Ager.

The book also discussed the wonderful pseudoscience of biorythms, and attributed poor biorythm calculations to airplane crashes, driving accidents, etc.
:wally

Seems to me like there's a lot of cretin claims floating around, from the pyramid power crap to the "forward this to everyone you know for good luck" merda. I don't see why any serious person would want to test wild claims coming from a bunch of weirdos. Did anyone mount an expedition to go searching the plateaus in S. America after Doyle wrote "The Lost World"? It's just fiction. Knowledgeable people probably don't want to waste time on this nonsense, and crystal-obsessed "Mysterious Powers" people don't have the knowledge to do anything that resembles collecting evidence.

[dylan_73]

Originally posted by Abe
I don't see why any serious person would want to test wild claims coming from a bunch of weirdos.


Well, at the risk of ruining my reputation as a sensible, serious person (oh, hang on....) because several people claim it works. And because it's easy to test.

I just want one person (anyone!) to say they've tried this pyramid thing and it did bugger all. That's it. Not "oh it can't possibly work because I say so".

I'm not demanding that someone test this out for me, I'm just really surprised that a (rather odd) claim that's been around since the 1930's hasn't been refuted the simplest way...

Chronos: Thanks for the dimension stuff. Why would the use of measuring wheels automatically give you Pi though? I was trying to visualise what you meant, but it seemed to me that using wheel or tape, it's still just length....

[Duck Duck Goose]

Um, Dylan, nobody's ever tested this because it's abundantly obvious to any thinking, rational potential researcher that there's no way it could possibly work. It's contrary to our observations of the known world. Molecules of steel don't just jump off a knife edge by themselves. They have to be pushed off, by a whetstone or sharpening steel.

[Francesca]

Dylan do i know you? I know a Dylan who comes here, but i don't know his screen name....

Fran

[muttrox]

To be more accurate, no one who has posted on this board yet has cited anyone who has tested it. If this idea has really been around since the 30's, I'd bet a fair sum o' cash that it has been tested at some point.

[Squink]

"I'd bet a fair sum o' cash that it has been tested at some point."

Yes, it was thoroughly debunked after it became a fad in the 70's. Of course no one remembers that now, and the idea DOES have a certain appeal to the pre-rational portions of our minds. That's probably why it keeps popping up again and again.
As far as those who have been claiming the alleged phenomena was never worthy of investigation because it was to "wierd", "crazy" or "far out", I'd hope that they have carefully examined their own beliefs and eliminated all but the most stringently rational of them !

Moonlight and razors:
A razor blade left out under the moon is likely to get dew on it and remain wet for hours at a time. If the blade is even slightly dirty, it will doubtless have chloride ions on it. When the chloride solution interacts with CO2 from the air it ends up forming a dilute solution of hydrochloric acid; which can etch steel. This of course is an oversimplification, but the point is that there are all sorts of things in dirty water that can dull a razor blade. The moon need have nothing to do with it.

[Necros]

When you use a knife to slice potatoes, you are wearing away that one-molecule-thick layer of steel, so that the edge becomes fatter and fatter. The edge is no longer only one molecule wide--it's now two or three or four molecules wide. The knife is dull.


Duck Duck Goose, the "loss of molecules" is not why a knife normally becomes dull (although after lots of use it does need sharpening). It becomes dull because the thin edge, from use, folds over to the side, thus presenting a less-sharp face to cut with. The "sharpening" steel you refer to in your other post doesn't actually sharpen; it merely realigns the folded-over part of the blade so that you can cut using the edge, as opposed to the folded side.

Ev en if you were to use your steel every day, you would still need to sharpen your knives on a stone or wheel.

[Pushkin]

Originally posted by dylan_73

Chronos: Thanks for the dimension stuff. Why would the use of measuring wheels automatically give you Pi though? I was trying to visualise what you meant, but it seemed to me that using wheel or tape, it's still just length....
[/B]
The circumference of a circle is given by 2xPixr, twice Pi by the radius of the circle. If the lengths were measured out in whole revolutions of the wheel then the distance on the ground would be a multiple of Pi. That's what you were asking, right?
I've seen all this stuff on pyramids applied to milk as well. Apparantly it was sold in Eastern Europe somewhere in pyramid shaped cartons to keep it fresh for longer.

[Snaf]

When I read Lyall Watson's 'Supernature' years ago I asked my Dad if he knew about this extraordinary pyramid-power stuff (not to mention "true accounts" of poltergeists etc, eeeeee), and he said it had been a fad in the sixties. He built a model pyramid as per instructions but it failed to sharpen razor blads (surprise!).

As for pyramid power in general, particularly their supposedly meaningful dimensions, there's an excellent debunking of that idea in Umberto Eco's 'Foucault's Pendulum', although unfortunately I can't find the page reference. In the passage, a character points out a nearby kiosk and invents mathematical 'connections' between its dimensions and things like the circumference of the earth, distance to the moon, and any number of 'magic' numbers. His point being that there are so many numbers regarded as significant for one reason or another that it's easy to work them into calculations.

Oh, and 'Pyramids' by Pterry Pratchett is a great read ;-)

Snaf

[dylan_73]

Originally posted by Pushkin

The circumference of a circle is given by 2xPixr, twice Pi by the radius of the circle. If the lengths were measured out in whole revolutions of the wheel then the distance on the ground would be a multiple of Pi. That's what you were asking, right?


Ahh, yeah, of course. I guess I was assuming that they'd decide what the circumference should be (eg. 1 metre, or whatever they used at the time) and then make the radius to match....it seems a bit odd to use their system of measurements to measure the radius, and then just let the length the wheel measures be whatever.

I hope this makes sense. Obviously the length is only a multiple of Pi in the units they're using, if the unit is used to take the radius...

[dylan_73]

Francesca: Sorry, no. My Real Life name isn't Dylan. I just started using it after a The Magic Roundabout day on IRC many years ago, and never bothered changing it...

[Pushkin]

Originally posted by Chronos
That's easy, the ratio of the base length to the height is the same as the ratio of the circumfrance of the Earth to its diameter . Before you go getting excited about that,(aha! How did the Egyptians know the size of the Earth?) that's just pi. And before you go getting excited about that, (so, the Egyptians knew pi?), it's just because they measured out the base using measuring wheels.
[/B]
Does this mean the Eygptians knew nothing about the relationship 2 x Pi x radius = Circumference? How did they figure out what size to make the wheels so they could measure out the length of the base of the pyramid on the ground. The pyramids seemed too accomplished a piece of engineering for them to just say "okay thats a nice length of circumference lets go with that."

[dylan_73]

Yeah, I agree with Pushkin here...on a measuring wheel, the only important thing is the circumference. Why would they care what the radius was anyway? Makes no sense to me.

And, in fact, I've just found a website that says a similar thing at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FDoernenburg/pi1.htm

It says that it's the egyptian method of calculating angles, that naturally leads to the various dimensions involved, and this does seem a more natural explanation...