Fuck you ESPN on the Bartman doc

[Maserschmidt]

ESPN ran a heavily-advertised documentary tonight called "Catching Hell," about the captioned event. It included really impressive videography (subtracting and adding visual elements during replays) and background interviews, as well as after-the-fact media handwringing and an attempt to tie it into the biblical notion of scapegoating.

So all that's well and good, but how did we get 2 fucking hours of analysis with essentially no mention of the obsessive, self-identifying relationship people have with what is really just a form of entertainment? We get a ton of audio and video of people telling him to kill himself, physical threats, things being thrown at him even as he's hustled out of the stadium...but no effort at all to step back and ask what actually makes people act that way. Instead, it's continually laid off to the city as a whole ["will Steve Bartman ever forgive Chicago?]. I'm sorry to tell you, Chicago...according to this documentary, you're apparently just a complete bunch of angry but unified morons.

So here's the thing, ESPN: instead of spending all that goddamn time talking to a Unitarian minister about a clever but completely incorrect analogy, how about making the effort to interview some psychologists about why people think it's okay (desireable even!) to physically accost and threaten him?

Just an idea.

[curlcoat]

This is about something that happened eight years ago? Chicago is still pissed?

[saoirse]

This is about something that happened eight years ago? Chicago is still pissed?

I thought "Chicago is still pissed" was the English translation of the city motto.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Sports fans. What else can you say? There's no logic.

It's not safe for Bill Buckner to walk the streets of Boston. How many ton's of guacamole in New England hit the living room wall when the Pats lost to the Giants. Donnie Moore killed himself.

It makes no sense. If you are not on the payroll of a team you still have to get up in the morning and go to your job (or these days try to find a job). Why people let their identity get so wrapped up in a pro team is a mystery.

[Bartman]

Great... and the association with my username is back. I can almost guarantee I'll get at least one threatening Private Message somewhere that I use this username.

I'll agree with a hearty, fuck you ESPN.

For the record, my first name is not Steve.

[Cell Guy]

This is about something that happened eight years ago? Chicago is still pissed?

Cub fans still celebrate the 1908 World Series. Unfortunately this Bartman thing isn't going away soon.

[Oakminster]

Bill Buckner called. He says Bartman is a candy ass.

[marshmallow]

You want ESPN to question sports fanaticism? Talk about self defeating.

[brittekland]

Bartman makes me think of Rick Moranis.

[Snooooopy]

I read a story about Pat Looney, who was next to Bartman, was also reaching for the ball and, but for the span of a few inches, would've become the target of the wrath of Cubs fans everywhere. It's kind of unsettling to imagine coming that close to having your life turned upside down.

[Oakminster]

It's kind of unsettling to imagine coming that close to having your life turned upside down.

Yeah, but then he would've gone to live with his uncle and auntie in Bel Air....

[TriPolar]

Bill Buckner called. He says Bartman is a candy ass.

Buckner took this kind of treatment poorly. It led to severe depression, and at one point he attempted to take his life by stepping in front of a city bus.

He was ok though. The bus went through his legs.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Buckner took this kind of treatment poorly. It led to severe depression, and at one point he attempted to take his life by stepping in front of a city bus.

He was ok though. The bus went through his legs.

That was cruel, but funny or funny, but cruel.

[RickJay]

Sports fans. What else can you say? There's no logic.

It's not safe for Bill Buckner to walk the streets of Boston. How many ton's of guacamole in New England hit the living room wall when the Pats lost to the Giants. Donnie Moore killed himself.
The Buckner thing is certainly no longer true if it ever was, and Donnie Moore had a lot of personal problems besides giving up a home run in the ALCS.

[Darth Panda]

That was cruel, but funny or funny, but cruel.

Like when a clown dies.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

Buckner has learned to laugh at himself, and did so in a recent and hilarious episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Both he and Bartman were unfairly treated, and ESPN did an excellent job in highlighting why.

As for the sociological reasons for the mistreatment, I chalk it up to pack mentality and needing to blame someone.

[Telemark]

It's not safe for Bill Buckner to walk the streets of Boston.

Actually, Buckner was treated well by Sox fans. He played with the Sox in 1990 and received a standing ovation on opening day. He threw out the first pitch on opening day 2008 (after the second WS win) and received a 4 minute standing ovation. He's been treated fine by the fans, not so much by the media.

[brittekland]

Yes, Bartman was hung by his balls and treated badly however Bartman moment was the pivoting point of the game if you watched. Yes, I'm biased and also I understand anyone could've done the same thing. But as a suffering Chicago Cubby fan waiting for a century also should've been smarter and should've known to stay out of the way. Hey, but then I say if Cubbies ever win Chicago will never be quite the same and will lose the city's certain persona forever.

[kaylasdad99]

Great... and the association with my username is back. I can almost guarantee I'll get at least one threatening Private Message somewhere that I use this username.

I'll agree with a hearty, fuck you ESPN.

For the record, my first name is not Steve.I've got an old college friend who's spent several years writing stories for Simpsons comic books. I could drop him a line, if you like, and see if he can get a Bartman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bartman_Meets_Radioactive_Man_Cover.jpg) story into the next issue.

[diku]

Yes, Bartman was hung by his balls and treated badly however Bartman moment was the pivoting point of the game if you watched. Yes, I'm biased and also I understand anyone could've done the same thing. But as a suffering Chicago Cubby fan waiting for a century also should've been smarter and should've known to stay out of the way. Hey, but then I say if Cubbies ever win Chicago will never be quite the same and will lose the city's certain persona forever.


Really? Moises Alou not catching a foul which would've only been the second out in the inning caused the Cubs to give up eight runs?

[Bob Ducca]

Really? Moises Alou not catching a foul which would've only been the second out in the inning caused the Cubs to give up eight runs?

Not to mention that they had already failed to close out the series in Game 5 when they had a 3-1 series lead, and their two aces - Wood & Prior - couldn't get it done at home, regardless of what some fan did to affect the 2nd out of the 8th inning.

Alou wouldn't have caught that ball anyway. Of course, this is the same guy that that admitted to urinating on his own hands regularly to make the skin tougher, so I don't know why fans have given him such a benefit of the doubt on this.

[brittekland]

Really? Moises Alou not catching a foul which would've only been the second out in the inning caused the Cubs to give up eight runs?

Not logically... but you know in games oddest things change the momentum.

[Jack Batty]

Really? Moises Alou not catching a foul which would've only been the second out in the inning caused the Cubs to give up eight runs?

It's similar to the who Bill Buckner thing; that ball going through his legs caused the Sox to lose Game Six. The Mets didn't win the whole thing until Game Seven.

From Wikipedia: "Boston led Game 7 of the World Series 3-0 heading into the bottom of the sixth inning when New York scored three runs off Bruce Hurst (who had been named World Series Most Valuable Player before the Mets' improbable comeback in Game 6) to tie the game, and score three more off Schiraldi in the seventh to take a 6-3 lead. Buckner was two-for-four in the game, and scored one of two runs the Sox plated in the eighth. However, the comeback fell short, and the Mets won their second World Championship in franchise history"

Why didn't Hurst or Schiraldi catch the shit that Buckner did?

[pulykamell]

As a Cubs fan, I'm so glad I was out of the country when this happened. From a dispassionate, removed perspective, it never occurred to me to blame the kid for anything. Looked like a perfectly natural reaction to me, and he wasn't the only one reaching for the ball. (The guy to his left had the sense to back away, but the guy to his right was reaching just as much as Steve was.) Fucking Cubs fans. (Yes, I'm a self-hating Cubs fan.) I figured if the Marlins could get past both Wood and Prior at Wrigley, they more than deserved the pennant. And so it was. The Cubs did it to themselves, and the hell with this "momentum" bullshit. A talented and highly paid team like that shouldn't have such a fragile psyche that a little disruption in their rhythm should cause a boner of a play at short and a complete collapse the rest of the inning. And never mind blowing the next game.

[pulykamell]

Alou wouldn't have caught that ball anyway.

To be completely fair, the catch wasn't a sure thing, but judging by the replays, it sure as heck does look like he was right on it.

[brittekland]

Yeah, curses etc are bullshit excuses... the series going perfectly fine then one moment they suddenly have a complete collapse with like zero production thereafter and blaming it on curses. We are talking about baseball, Cubbies, curses, a goat, a black cat and Bartman, right??

[Lute Skywatcher]

We get a ton of audio and video of people telling him to kill himself, physical threats, things being thrown at him even as he's hustled out of the stadium...but no effort at all to step back and ask what actually makes people act that way.Sports fans. What else can you say? There's no logic.

It's not safe for Bill Buckner to walk the streets of Boston. How many ton's of guacamole in New England hit the living room wall when the Pats lost to the Giants. Donnie Moore killed himself.

It makes no sense. If you are not on the payroll of a team you still have to get up in the morning and go to your job (or these days try to find a job). Why people let their identity get so wrapped up in a pro team is a mystery.100 years ago, Ty Cobb was receiving death threats for spiking players.

[bup]

To be completely fair, the catch wasn't a sure thing, but judging by the replays, it sure as heck does look like he was right on it.

Even Moises Alou admitted (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3324343)(after a while) he probably wouldn't have caught it.

[gonzomax]

Instant replay might have saved Bartman's life.

[Oakminster]

Alou wouldn't have caught that ball anyway.

And some people say Mookie Wilson would have been safe anyway. He could run, and Buckner was deep behind the bag....

[bup]

Even Moises Alou admitted (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3324343)(after a while) he probably wouldn't have caught it.
Huh. I looked at the wikipedia page, and Alou took back (or rather, claims he never said) he wouldn't have caught the ball. I retract that.

But I don't think he would have caught the ball, and I hold the Cubs responsible for giving up 8 runs before getting two more outs, and losing the next game too.

[pulykamell]

Even Moises Alou admitted (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3324343)(after a while) he probably wouldn't have caught it.

Yeah, he was just saying that to keep the heat off the kid, in my opinion, if he did in fact say it.

[Freddy the Pig]

Ah, yes. Blame for the Bartman incident--where to begin?

1. Moises Alou--did he have to throw that hissy fit? Yes, in an empty stadium, he probably would have caught the ball. But outfielders know perfectly well that they reach above and beyond the fence at their own risk. Fans will always go for a ball, unless the fielder has time (and space) to get there first and body up and clear them out. A hissy fit in your home park? That was bush league.

2. Mark Prior, who actually came off the mound to argue for a fan interference call. First, learn the rules, dumbass. There's no interference on a ball above or beyond the wall. Second, if the call is borderline at all (and this one wasn't), you aren't going to get it in your home park. Third, you have a 3-0 lead, a 3-2 count, and you're five outs from the World Series. Get your ass back on the mound and maybe, like, throw the next pitch in the strike zone.

3. Fox Sports. If they had replayed the incident and let it go at that, nobody would know who Bartman was. It took eye-straining concentration to identify him as the person whose hands touched the ball. But no, Fox couldn't let it go. Over and over, during the eight-run inning, they focused the camera on his expressionless face. To make it worse, the announcers were prattling sanctimonious shit like "Gee, I hope nobody blames that young man for this eight-run meltdown". Get your goddamn cameras off of him, and maybe nobody will.

4. Alex S. Gonzalez, shortstop. He should send Bartman flowers every day of his life. He made the most ghastly error imaginable on a Sunday-hop ground ball, at least a force out, maybe an inning-ending double play. It was way more costly than Buckner's error, since the Cubs were still ahead 3-1 and should have stayed that way. But Bartman took the heat for it.

5. Kerry Wood. Nice start in the seventh game, clutch.

The Cubs--ya gotta hate 'em.

[Tom Tildrum]

For years, Fred Merkle could not walk around on the streets of New York because of his boner.

[Typo Negative]

It is terrible that Bartman got so much heat for what is essentially an instinctual move. There were quite hands in the air near that ball. And that nothing to do with loss, the Cubs just find interesting ways to lose.

But ESPN DID make the point that holding any grudge about this was stupid, that we need to step back and look at ourselves as a group about what kind of people we are.

That said, Bartman will be a pariah till the Cubbies win a World Series.

[RickJay]

For years, Fred Merkle could not walk around on the streets of New York because of his boner.
Not to be a doubting Thomas, but, well, I doubt this quite a lot. As legendary as Merkle's Boner was,

1. It's unlikely most people in New York would have known Fred Merkle if they'd bumped into him. Merkle was a 19-year-old nobody in an era when there was no TV, no radio, and little documentation of the game as compared to today. His face would have been hard to recognize even to baseball fans and unknown to most people. He was a rookie in a league that at the time drew fewer fans per game than some junior hockey teams; the entire National League in 1908 drew fewer fans than some teamsw will this year.

2. Although over the course of history the story has coalesced into "Fred Merkle screwed up" the opinions at the time were a lot more varied. The game ended in total chaos, with fans charging the field thinking the Giants had won. Some people claimed Merkle touched second, including Christy Mathewson, who while a Giant was a man who was reknowned for his honor and gentility and who wouldn't have said that if he didn't believe it. Some newspapers reported that the Cubs, or the crowd, or both, had stopped Merkle from getting to second. There was a rules dispute, as it appeared the ball had touched a fan before Merkle was forced out, meaning it should have been ruled dead. The umpire who made the call had several different versions of events. So t the time, it wasn't like all of New York wanted blood; many blamed the league, many blamed Hank O'Day, many blamed the Cubs, many blamed the crowd, and some blamed Merkle, and many blamed a combination of all those things.

3. Although Merkle did take his share of the blame and was promptly nicknamed "Bonehead," the Giants apparently still liked him enough that they not only kept him but made him the everyday first baseman a few years later, and he had a long and successful career, most of it in New York. It's hard to imagine that being possible in a place where he could not show his face in public.

4. Most people aren't big time baseball fans, even in 1908. Most people who ARE baseball fans are not psychotic jerks.

[bup]

For years, Fred Merkle could not walk around on the streets of New York because of his boner.Merkle became a verb, in fact, meaning 'to not arrive.'

Also, fuck Tony Kornheiser of ESPN. He's not funny and he doesn't know sports, and he's kind of a dick.

[Typo Negative]

Not to be a doubting Thomas, but, well, I doubt this quite a lot. As legendary as Merkle's Boner was,

I think Tom Tildrum was making a joke about his boner making it difficult to walk.

[Lamar Mundane]

Not to be a doubting Thomas, but, well, I doubt this quite a lot. As legendary as Merkle's Boner was,

1. It's unlikely most people in New York would have known Fred Merkle if they'd bumped into him. Merkle was a 19-year-old nobody in an era when there was no TV, no radio, and little documentation of the game as compared to today. His face would have been hard to recognize even to baseball fans and unknown to most people. He was a rookie in a league that at the time drew fewer fans per game than some junior hockey teams; the entire National League in 1908 drew fewer fans than some teamsw will this year.

2. Although over the course of history the story has coalesced into "Fred Merkle screwed up" the opinions at the time were a lot more varied. The game ended in total chaos, with fans charging the field thinking the Giants had won. Some people claimed Merkle touched second, including Christy Mathewson, who while a Giant was a man who was reknowned for his honor and gentility and who wouldn't have said that if he didn't believe it. Some newspapers reported that the Cubs, or the crowd, or both, had stopped Merkle from getting to second. There was a rules dispute, as it appeared the ball had touched a fan before Merkle was forced out, meaning it should have been ruled dead. The umpire who made the call had several different versions of events. So t the time, it wasn't like all of New York wanted blood; many blamed the league, many blamed Hank O'Day, many blamed the Cubs, many blamed the crowd, and some blamed Merkle, and many blamed a combination of all those things.

3. Although Merkle did take his share of the blame and was promptly nicknamed "Bonehead," the Giants apparently still liked him enough that they not only kept him but made him the everyday first baseman a few years later, and he had a long and successful career, most of it in New York. It's hard to imagine that being possible in a place where he could not show his face in public.

4. Most people aren't big time baseball fans, even in 1908. Most people who ARE baseball fans are not psychotic jerks.

Whoosh.

[pulykamell]

That said, Bartman will be a pariah till the Cubbies win a World Series.

I don't know. The Cub fans I hang around with don't really care about Bartman and hardly blame their downfall on him (at least from today's perspective). Granted, these Cubs fans are not your usual Wrigley Field fratboy-douchebag types, but I honestly think the average Cub fan has gotten over it, if they blamed him to begin with. I'd be curious to see a poll.

[zamboniracer]

Instant replay might have saved Bartman's life.

How do you figure that gonzomax?


As for who to blame for the Cubs' failure, I agree wholeheartedly with Freddy the Pig's post above, and with the OP's assertion that ESPN ain't all it is cracked up to be.

[Snooooopy]

Also, fuck Tony Kornheiser of ESPN. He's not funny and he doesn't know sports, and he's kind of a dick.

Kornheiser is also, from what I have read about him, a remarkably thin-skinned dick. He just loves to dish it out, but doesn't seem to be able to take it.

[YogSosoth]

Cub fans still celebrate the 1908 World Series. Unfortunately this Bartman thing isn't going away soon.

WTF? How do they celebrate it?

[YogSosoth]

Yes, Bartman was hung by his balls and treated badly however Bartman moment was the pivoting point of the game if you watched. Yes, I'm biased and also I understand anyone could've done the same thing. But as a suffering Chicago Cubby fan waiting for a century also should've been smarter and should've known to stay out of the way. Hey, but then I say if Cubbies ever win Chicago will never be quite the same and will lose the city's certain persona forever.

Why can't they just root for the White Sox?

[brittekland]

Why can't they just root for the White Sox?

Who they?

[Telemark]

Why can't they just root for the White Sox?
No. People are either White Sox fans or Cubs fans; you aren't both. It just doesn't work that way.

[mhendo]

Instant replay might have saved Bartman's life.Did he die without me realizing it?

[Cubsfan]

Who the fuck is this Bartman guy?



;)

[Gangster Octopus]

Cubs fans shouod thank Bartman, if they had gone on to win they wouldn't nbe the lovable losers anymore, they would be just another team or worse insufferable d-bags like the Red Sox fans.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

This is all missing the fact that even if they had gotten to the World Series they would have lost anyway.

[pulykamell]

This is all missing the fact that even if they had gotten to the World Series they would have lost anyway.

To be honest, I'd settle for the Cubs just making the World Series. I don't care if they actually win or not.

[Freddy the Pig]

My favorite Bartman trivia: Chad Fox, of Milwaukee and Florida, was the winning pitcher in both the Brant Brown Dropped Fly Ball Game and the Bartman Game. Later he came to the Cubs and promptly blew out his arm in a career-ending injury.

[bup]

Later he came to the Cubs and promptly blew out his arm in a career-ending injury.
This is what your English teacher was talking about when she said to avoid redundancy.

Consider "Later he came to the Cubs."

See how that conveys the same information in fewer words?

[YogSosoth]

Who they?

The Chicago baseball fans. They have 2 teams, one of which just won. Seems like the city should be just fine even though one of their teams hasn't won for a century.

Its like basketball fans in LA, I think. I'm a Lakers fan and they've won a lot, but if they hit some down years and the Clippers were to win, I'd still be happy as an LA basketball fan. We make fun of the Clippers and their fans, but we'll still cheer when they do well. Probably the parade may be bigger for a Clippers championship than a Lakers one, just because of the novelty

No. People are either White Sox fans or Cubs fans; you aren't both. It just doesn't work that way.

That doesn't make any sense to me. They're in the same city!

[brittekland]

The Chicago baseball fans. They have 2 teams, one of which just won. Seems like the city should be just fine even though one of their teams hasn't won for a century.

Its like basketball fans in LA, I think. I'm a Lakers fan and they've won a lot, but if they hit some down years and the Clippers were to win, I'd still be happy as an LA basketball fan. We make fun of the Clippers and their fans, but we'll still cheer when they do well. Probably the parade may be bigger for a Clippers championship than a Lakers one, just because of the novelty



That doesn't make any sense to me. They're in the same city!

I grew up watching Cubs on WGN literally everyday. You could hardly ever see White Sox games on TV. I've actually gone to Sox games more than Cubbies because you could always get seats at White Sox games back then. Even these days I go to box suits all the time because I get invited... but not to Cubs much :mad:. Cubs are my team and I feel a bit like I'm watching some other city team when I'm at Sox game. I can't help that. I've always been a north sider.

[zamboniracer]

To be honest, I'd settle for the Cubs just making the World Series. I don't care if they actually win or not.

That isn't true, really. Once you get there, you want to win and you're angry when your team doesn't win. Trust me, I know. I speak as an Indians' fan who suffered through the sixties, seventies and eighties, and am still ticked off about the '95 and 97 World Series, to say nothing of blowing the 2007 ALCS to Boston.

[AndyPolley]

Merkle became a verb, in fact, meaning 'to not arrive.'

Also, fuck Tony Kornheiser of ESPN. He's not funny and he doesn't know sports, and he's kind of a dick.

I'd like to take a moment to defend Tony Kornheiser. First off...he is funny. Secondly, he not only 'knows sports', but he understands why people like sports. He's more of a casual fan than an analyst, but I've always enjoyed his insights. I appreciate how he has little interest in actually interviewing athletes, but would instead ask questions of sports reporters & columnists.

Also...AndyPolley!

[pulykamell]

That doesn't make any sense to me. They're in the same city!

But it's true. It's only recently that I've begun to see this "Chicago fan" bullshit. You have to pick sides, that's just the way it is. Generally, this is decided for you geographically. If you're a South Sider, you're a Sox fan. If you're a North Sider, a Cubs fan. It's a toss-up for the West Side, but I think these days it leans more White Sox. I'm a relative rarity: a South Side Cubs fan, and I know some North Side White Sox fans, too (usually, the offspring of transplanted Sox fans.) And this isn't exclusively a Chicago or even American thing. I believe New Yorkers are the same way about the Yankees and Mets (at least the Mets fans I know are). And, of course, there's the famous soccer rivalries like Rangers and Celtic (although that's imbued with a lot more than just your standard sports rivalry.)


Now, I don't actively root against the Sox or anything (I've probably been to more Sox games in my life than Cubs games because of where I live), but when they won the World Series a few years back (in rather impressive fashion), I honestly didn't feel any sort of joy/pride/camaraderie with the team or whatever that feeling is when "your" team wins the championship. It may as well have been the Royals winning the World Series for all that it meant to me. Except that I wouldn't be hearing the end of it soon from my White Sox fan friends....

[bup]

I'd like to take a moment to defend Tony Kornheiser. First off...he is funny.

Google Tony Kornheiser funny: About 224,000 results (0.18 seconds)
Google Tony Kornheiser dick: About 276,000 results (0.15 seconds)

[Gangster Octopus]

Google Tony Kornheiser funny: About 224,000 results (0.18 seconds)
Google Tony Kornheiser dick: About 276,000 results (0.15 seconds)

Science!

[ElvisL1ves]

This is what your English teacher was talking about when she said to avoid redundancy.

Consider "Later he came to the Cubs."

See how that conveys the same information in fewer words?There was a study once showing that the World Series is lost, in a statistically-significant majority of cases, by the team with more former Cubs on the roster.



Did he die without me realizing it?"Saved his life" is a more figurative term than that. :( gonzo obviously meant Bartman's life has sucked since the catch, and he could have been saved all this shit without it.

Oh, great, we're in the Pit: When did your Asperger's first get diagnosed? Or hasn't it yet?

[mhendo]

Oh, great, we're in the Pit: When did your Asperger's first get diagnosed? Or hasn't it yet?What's up Elvis? Still smarting from being shown up as an irrational liar in the thread about Moneyball?

Evidence, schmevidence, right?

[pulykamell]

There was a study once showing that the World Series is lost, in a statistically-significant majority of cases, by the team with more former Cubs on the roster.

Yes, the ex-Cub factor. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Cubs_Factor) And it involves teams with three or more former Cubs on the roster being doomed to failure in the World Series.

[NinjaChick]

Every time I hear someone refer to them as the "Cubbies" I can't help but shudder and think "Goddamn a team with a nickname that makes them sound like a daycare classroom kind of deserves to suck."

[Mince]

Yes, the home run was just the trigger. Donnie Moore obviously had psychological problems a lot deeper than baseball. He played a lot of baseball, so it's not surprising that the trigger was an event related to baseball. But it was incidental.

Yes, the ex-Cub factor. And it involves teams with three or more former Cubs on the roster being doomed to failure in the World Series. . And it involves teams with three or more former Cubs on the roster being doomed to failure in the World Series.

From the article:

The Ex-Cub Factor is a seemingly spurious correlation...

Seemingly spurious?

[Typo Negative]

Every time I hear someone refer to them as the "Cubbies" I can't help but shudder and think "Goddamn a team with a nickname that makes them sound like a daycare classroom kind of deserves to suck."
How about the Phillies?

[Freddy the Pig]

How about the Phillies?Not the same. It's not a diminutive.

[ElvisL1ves]

What's up Elvis? Still smarting from being shown up as an irrational liar in the thread about Moneyball?Apparently no, you have not yet been formally diagnosed. Something to consider, though.

And you're boring, too, child.

[mhendo]

Oh, Elvis, you're so cute!

At least the Red Sox must have cheered you up this week. :)

Have a great offseason. I look forward to many more sparkling and insightful baseball comments from you next year.

[Typo Negative]

Not the same. It's not a diminutive.

Yea, but fuck 'em anyway, right?

:)

Go Brewers! Go Rays!!

[ElvisL1ves]

That would be "phuck 'em anyway". ;)

[NinjaChick]

Yea, but fuck 'em anyway, right?

:)

Go Brewers! Go Rays!!
The only appropriate response is, of course, a hearty phuck you.

(If you need me anytime today I'll be over here twitching, because the game doesn't start until 11PM in my time zone...)