First attempt at breadmaking

[Johnny L.A.]

Aside from cornbread and shortbread, I've never made bread. So I decided to try today.

I looked up a recipe for French bread online. Following suggestions in the reviews, I used less flour than called for. The dough looked a little 'thin', but I kept going. I let it rise until doubled, then turned it out onto a floured board. Whoops! Forgot to 'punch' it! I divided it in half and let it rest for the alloted time, then rolled the halves into rectangles and rolled them into cylinders. They went onto a greased baking sheet with cornstarch on it, got brushed with a mixture of egg white and water, and covered with a damp towel. I let them sit ten minutes, and then popped them into a hot oven. Now to clean up.

After five minutes I looked at the recipe again. I was supposed to let it rise 35-40 minutes, not ten! :smack: I took them out of the oven, re-covered them with the damp towel, and am hoping for the best.

I hope they're at least edible. First attempts are learning experiences, but it would be nice if they're not a total loss.

[Johnny L.A.]

One more error: I posted in the wrong forum. :smack:

[Mangetout]

I expect the results will be a bit dense if you started baking too soon, then halted it - if a crust started to form, this will have impeded much further rising.

But well done for having a go - and if this attempt is a disaster, that only leaves room for improvement. It's not hard to do, once you've had a little practice and are confident about what to do without having to keep referring back to the recipe.

I love making bread - even a really simple white flour dough has a thousand uses - depending on what you do with it after kneading and proving - for example, my edible bread bowls (http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/bread_bowls/)

[Johnny L.A.]

The tops seem to still be pliable -- not really crusty. They do seem to be rising a bit.

FWIW I used 5-1/2 cups of bread flour, 5 teaspoons of yeast, two tablespoons melted butter, two cups water, and 1-1/2 teaspoons of salt.

[picunurse]

Johnny, good luck, I hope it turns out great.

You reminded me about the only time I made croissants. It took about 8 hours. I made 18 croissants. I went out for an hour to get a special sweetened butter from a country french restaurant and store. When I got home they were all gone! My roommate had eaten every one. I nearly went to jail. The only reason I didn't was my other roommate restrained me from beating him to a bloody plup.

[missred]

Cool! Breadmaking can be a lot of fun and relieve some pent up stress (kneading and punching down). And the results are usually good to eat!

For future reference, French, Cuban and Italian-type loaves have a better crust if you place a pan of water 1-1 1/2" deep on another shelf of the oven. I don't know if your recipe called for that, but most do.

Happy baking and eating!

[Johnny L.A.]

I'd heard about the water thing, but decided not to try it the first time because the reviews said the crust was fine.

[Jaledin]

It'll eat fine.

I'll tell you what was the first bread I made that was better than anything in any local store -- shape, crumb, crust, all put together. Ciabatta.

Loose dough, then fairly simple shaping process -- "like a -alittle -a-slipper!" It's the forming of loaves that I personally hate -- my father loves that part, so YMMV -- and ciabatta is more like making a damned simple origami. I don't have a link to a formula, but IIRC, something like 80% water in bakers' percentage. Haven't made real bread in a while -- just mix some stuff and pour it into a cast iron until it's done and eat it -- but lots of books ... people complain, sometimes, but I liked Peter Reinhardt's (sp?) books and a lot of others.

Congrats! Even if it's a sub-par loaf, hot out of the oven with some fat (butter, olive oil, maybe some sesame oil) is going to be delicious.

ETA -- use a probe thermometer to gauge when to take it out (barring charring on the crust). It's hard to fix an under-cooked loaf by just sticking it in the oven some more -- it doesn't come out the same.

[Baker]

Let us know about the finished product. As a professional baker myself I know that of all the products I work with bread is my favorite.

Any kind of bread. And french bread, right out of the oven with butter on it, is food of the gods.
I do a challah that's good too, and a dark pumpernickel that, sliced thin with a little butter and ham on it, is one of my favorite openfaced sandwiches.

[Johnny L.A.]

For a first attempt... Not bad! Roomie said, 'Oh. Good!'

I think it needs another half-teaspoon of salt. Either that, or salted butter. It might be a little bit dense. Or not. But maybe.

[Jaledin]

Roomie said, 'Oh. Good!'

Is this a reference to *Blazing Saddles*? If not, it's still good. Don't skimp on the salt (I think that's a Monty Python thing with the big fat guy eating all the stuff in the bucket). But seriously -- not enough salt, and when you get to slow-rising, you need the right amount of salt to retard the yeast proliferation.

Not a pro, just a regular bread-maker who's only somewhat picky.

[Johnny L.A.]

(I think that's a Monty Python thing with the big fat guy eating all the stuff in the bucket)

'And don't skimp on the paté!'

[Idle Thoughts]

One more error: I posted in the wrong forum. :smack:

No problem, I'll move it for you.

[Johnny L.A.]

So, Baker...

Based on my OP and the results, do you have any suggestions?

Oh -- I've just remembered: The recipe called for all-purpose flour. But I had a full bag of bread flour, so I used some of that.

[Mangetout]

I often use all-purpose flour for breadmaking - and it's fine. It won't keep as well as bread made with strong flour, but that might not be a problem if you've got folks at home who like eating fresh baked bread.

I have sometimes found that strong flour has *too much* gluten in it - I've made bread rolls that came out like rubber balls because the dough was so damn springy.

[Johnny L.A.]

I wonder about kneading. The Kitchen Aid booklet says to knead until the dough 'cleans' the sides of the bowl (about two minutes), and then keep it running two minutes more. But I didn't keep close track of the time.

[Jaledin]

One word -- *autolyse* (autolysis, maybe in the root). Depends entirely on what type of bread you want. Open crumb? I don't knead much. Pizza dough or tight crumb, then knead it good.

This is such a huge, complex subject, I hope it continues for many many days.

ETA (wish I could link to my Devo flowchart which decides when and where to "whip it.") Since this is a family site (heheh) I will not bother (modal future, first person).

ETA I also only use AP flour -- and I've done side-by-sides with "quality" like King Arthur vs. Kroger house brand. Doesn't matter. But if you're making something specialty, protein content could be a problem. I don't do that fancy kind of bread, but it'd be nice to hear what the real millers say. Honestly, I use Red Mill rye to add some "grit" to my regular bread -- haven't got it down yet, but it's a nice thing to experiment with.

And don't skimp on the pa''ay!

[Vita Beata]

Those edible bread bowls look fabulous!
Good luck, Johnny LA. Soon I will take out my bread machine to make whole wheat loaves. Even following the recipe closely, it took me a few times to remember the nuances of turning out a nice loaf. I have had some that turned out more like door-stops .. I blamed it on the yeast.

[Johnny L.A.]

I don't have a bread machine. But at least (at last?) I have a stand mixer. After the last time I made pasta, I don't think I care for making dough with my hands!

[runner pat]

I don't have a bread machine. But at least (at last?) I have a stand mixer. After the last time I made pasta, I don't think I care for making dough with my hands!

I've been making our bread for about 6 months now and I always make it by hand(no stand mixer). It's not that bad.

[Broomstick]

The cool thing about bread is that most recipes don't require perfection for good results.

A little too little or a little much flour or water or yeast? No problem - you can still get good to excellent results.

Kneading and rising times are not exact - a few minutes more or less usually has little if any effect.

Proper oven temperature and length of time in said oven is a little more important... but fortunately modern ovens are a lot more consistent than the wood-fired ovens of yore.

The more you do the better you'll get. And the more yummy bread you'll have to eat. So keep at it!

[Johnny L.A.]

but fortunately modern ovens are a lot more consistent than the wood-fired ovens of yore.

The more you do the better you'll get. And the more yummy bread you'll have to eat. So keep at it!

My oven is teh sux0rz. It was in the house when I bought it, and was in the house when my friend bought it before me. It's probably been in the kitchen 30-40 years. We've noticed that things don't cook as fast as they should. Turns out it runs a little cool. Like today, I needed 375º. I had to set the knob to 450º. Going by the thermometer I put in side nowadays.

I told roomie the bread will get stale fast, so eat it quick! (And then I can try again next week.)

[Stoid]

Johnny, good luck, I hope it turns out great.

You reminded me about the only time I made croissants. It took about 8 hours. I made 18 croissants. I went out for an hour to get a special sweetened butter from a country french restaurant and store. When I got home they were all gone! My roommate had eaten every one. I nearly went to jail. The only reason I didn't was my other roommate restrained me from beating him to a bloody plup.

What kind of asshole (glutton!) insensitive fuck eats EIGHTEEN homemade croissants in the space of an hour????

[Jaledin]

You can get an oven thermometer for pretty cheap -- I've had the same (cheap) one for the past three or four apartments. Just hang it on a rack and read it off when it's ready.

IME, though, bread isn't all that demanding as far as absolute temperature of the oven goes. I don't make anything fancy, though, so YMMV.

Far more important IMO is the probe thermometer to measure the internal temperature of the loaf.

[Jaledin]

What kind of asshole (glutton!) insensitive fuck eats EIGHTEEN homemade croissants in the space of an hour????

And, ETA, *that's* a problem. Jeebus! That's like an African village in drought feasting for a month and then getting manna. WTF!

[Jaledin]

Also, I've eaten 19. Even the little Pierre behind the counter started to laugh.

[Toucanna]

I hope your bread came out the way you like it. I just have a quick question because I'm confused about something...
They [the loaves] went onto a greased baking sheet with cornstarch on it...
CornSTARCH or corn MEAL? Thanks!

[Johnny L.A.]

You can get an oven thermometer for pretty cheap
Yes, that's how we figured out the oven was wonky. Got one at BB&B a while back.
CornSTARCH or corn MEAL? Thanks!
You know... that sounded wrong when I typed it. I used corn meal.

[China Guy]

I really like either Mark Bittman's (more originally James Beard's) no-knead lbread and/or modified along the lines of artisian bread iin 5 minutes a day. The cliff notes version is you mix up (as in with a fork until everything is kinda mixed) a wet bread dough with minimal yeast and let it rise for 12-24 hours, then bake in a really hot clay or cast iron covered pan.

In the artisian bread in 5, you throw your dough in the fridge for up to 2 weeks, and pull out a hunk a few hours before you want to bake and let it rise.

Both are really easy to do with minimal effort and IMHO really good results. If interested, you can search or I can point you to the right places.

[Balance]

I think it needs another half-teaspoon of salt. Either that, or salted butter.
I like to brush the crust of my rosemary bread with salted rosemary ghee just before it finishes baking. It adds a nice salty bite without making the crumb too salty. (Though, as Jaledin said, you shouldn't skimp on the salt in the dough, either.)

[Hari Seldon]

One thing about bread (as I think it was Broomstick said) is that it is pretty insensitive to the details of what you do. Even that ten minute rise probably wouldn't matter. It would just rise more in the baking. Amount and type of flour, it makes only a slight difference. I should stop this and start a bread for this evening now.

[Chou4555]

I'm going to try some baking this week-end... using mt SD25000WCD I'm going to try a pear and hazelnut loaf. I bit ambitious I know, but it looks scrumptious.. http://theideaskitchen.co.uk/cook/recipe-finder/recipe/?rid=782 I'll let you know how I get on.

[Johnny L.A.]

bit ambitious I know

So... You just put a bunch of stuff into a pan, and press a button? :p

[Johnny L.A.]

There was about a six-inch piece of the second loaf of French bread left, and it was getting a little hard. I was going to make croutons or bread crumbs out of it, but roomie put it out for the squirrels last night.

A black squirrel has been working on it for some time now, and the bread is virtually gone. He's munching on a piece now, and the cat is watching from the love seat.

[MeanOldLady]

I swear I thought this title was "First attempt at breakdancing." I moused over and thought, "Why is he talking about bread?"

[StGermain]

Johnny - You can adjust your oven thermostat by removing the know that controls the temp. Depending on the manufacturer, the adjustment setting is either on the inside of the know or on the shaft the knob sits on. (That sounds dirty).

StG

[chaoticbear]

I'm a fairly novice breadmaker as well, and I'll add the following:

I always leave out a little bit of the flour (~1/2 cup) and see if I need it during the kneading process. I've also found that most dough needs to be just dry enough to hold together, and sometimes I take the Julia Child route of using a bench scraper and a hand to knead to keep it unstuck.

[Fenris]

The tops seem to still be pliable -- not really crusty. They do seem to be rising a bit.

FWIW I used 5-1/2 cups of bread flour, 5 teaspoons of yeast, two tablespoons melted butter, two cups water, and 1-1/2 teaspoons of salt.

This seems like way, WAY too much yeast. The ratio is usually about a teaspoon and a half/two teaspoons of yeast to ~6 cups of flour.

[Johnny L.A.]

I just followed the advice in the recipe:
• 2 1/2 (.25 ounce) packages active dry yeast
the recipe does say 2 and 1/2 half packages of yeast--there was some confusion among previous reviewers. So...1 pg. of active dry yeast = .25 ounces or 2 and 1/2 teaspoons per packet. I used 5 teaspoons of yeast in my trial batch and it went well.