Caucasian man marries Asian woman? (Genetics Question)

[Disposable Hero]

I'm currently reading 'The War of the World' by Niall Ferguson and this line on page 'xlv' of the introduction had me raise my eyebrow.

"...when a Chinese woman marries a European man, the chances are relatively high that their blood groups may be incompatible, so that only the first child they concieve will be viable."

Now I may be being dense (always a distinct possibility) but I'm having trouble understanding that sentence, if their blood groups are incompatible why would that cause a problem and why would it not affect their first child?

Thanks

[ENugent]

I have no idea why race would factor into it, but presumably they're talking about something like Rh incompatibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemolytic_disease_of_the_newborn).

[Captain Amazing]

He's probably talking about hemolytic diseases of the newborn, the most common of which is due to Rh incompatibility. Basically, if the mother is Rh negative and the fetus is Rh positive, the mother can react to the fetus's Rh positive blood and produce antibodies that can kill the fetus. Since generally this happens at childbirth, the first Rh positive baby is fine (because the baby is born by the time the mother can produce antibodies), but then, if the mother has another RH positive baby, there's a good chance it won't come to term unless there's medical involvement.

[appleciders]

If the father is Rh+ and the mother is Rh-, the child can be Rh+ which can cause complications for the mother. I suppose it's possible that there could be uterine damage that would not prevent birth but might prevent the mother from conceiving again, although I certainly know plenty of half Asian, half Caucasian kids with brothers and sisters, so I guess it's not impossible.

[Captain Amazing]

I think he might have it backwards, though, because almost all East Asians are RH positive. You only really find RH negative in Europeans (and to a much lesser extent in Africans), so you're more likely to see a problem if a Chinese man marries a European woman.

[njtt]

Is rhesus negative blood very common amongst Asian women, then? :dubious:

..searches..

According to Wikipedia, it is actually a lot less common amongst Asians than amongst Europeans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhesus_blood_group_system#Population_data).

Methinks this Ferguson is talking out of his ass.

[dangermom]

Rh difficulties are now treatable, I understand. But I've never heard of them causing any difficulties in a Caucasian husband/Asian wife combo. I have quite a few friends in white/Asian marriages so I think I would have heard of it. (And now a simul-post confirms, not a problem.)

Anne Boleyn's problem was quite probably Rh incompatibility, though it's impossible to say.

[doreen]

I have no idea why race would factor into it, but presumably they're talking about something like Rh incompatibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemolytic_disease_of_the_newborn).


That seems to be exactly what's being referenced- except according to this ,http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/browse/1/1/1696/3/69 , he does have it backwards- the risk for a Chinese woman and a European man is less than 1% and risk for a European woman and a Chinese man is 15 percent which is only slightly higher than the risk for two Europeans at 13%

[Maggie the Ocelot]

Huh. Husband's father is Filipino and his mother is French/Swedish, and the reason he doesn't have any sibs is due to the Rh factor (when he was born in the mid 60's it was still an issue).

I did not know that Asian father/Caucasion mother made that more likely. That's pretty interesting.

[KarlGauss]

Even overlooking the fact that Ferguson was mixed up about the risk for "European/Chinese" pairings, I have to ask: what year did he write that stuff? Nowadays, the risk of hemolytic disease of the newborn should not be an issue in any place where there's access to modern 'Western' medicine - it's preventable. We did a thread on that (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=616343) a few months ago.

[Disposable Hero]

Even overlooking the fact that Ferguson was mixed up about the risk for "European/Chinese" pairings, I have to ask: what year did he write that stuff?

The book was published in 2006, so its pretty recent. The author is an historian so he may be getting into an area beyond his expertise with that quote.

Thanks for the answers everyone!

[njtt]

Anne Boleyn's problem was quite probably Rh incompatibility, though it's impossible to say.

More neck-axe incompatibility, I think.

[Mahaloth]

Are Korean women who marry white men affected by this? What about black men?

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Are Korean women who marry white men affected by this? What about black men?In all the cases I know, black men who marry white men do not have any problems with Rh-incompatibility at childbirth.

[Motorgirl]

Even overlooking the fact that Ferguson was mixed up about the risk for "European/Chinese" pairings, I have to ask: what year did he write that stuff? Nowadays, the risk of hemolytic disease of the newborn should not be an issue in any place where there's access to modern 'Western' medicine - it's preventable. We did a thread on that (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=616343) a few months ago.

Rh disease is preventable. Other hemolytic diseases are treatable with varying degrees of success, but not necessarily prevantable. E.g. anti-Kell. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemolytic_disease_of_the_newborn_%28anti-Kell%29)

One of my colleagues has had this problem with 3 of her 5 pregnancies. The first was uneventful (kell negative mother, kell positive baby). The second pregnancy was lost early on, and this is when they discovered the Kell antigen problem. The third pregnancy was carried longer, with lots of intervention including maternal infusions and fetal transfusions, but was lost in month 5 despite treatment. The fourth pregnancy was brought nearly to term with maternal infusions and fetal transfusions and resulted in a healthy nearly-full-term baby. Her fifth pregnancy was uneventful because it was a Kell negative baby.

This was all at a very reputable Boston hospital.

I am kind of hoping they don't try for more kids! :eek:

[njtt]

Are Korean women who marry white men affected by this? What about black men?

It is European women (i.e., of European descent) who are most likely to be affected, not Asian women.

[BigT]

He's probably talking about hemolytic diseases of the newborn, the most common of which is due to Rh incompatibility. Basically, if the mother is Rh negative and the fetus is Rh positive, the mother can react to the fetus's Rh positive blood and produce antibodies that can kill the fetus. Since generally this happens at childbirth, the first Rh positive baby is fine (because the baby is born by the time the mother can produce antibodies), but then, if the mother has another RH positive baby, there's a good chance it won't come to term unless there's medical involvement.

This happened to my maternal grandparents. Mom is Rh+, and her parents had two more children that were also Rh+, and, while they were born, they died soon afterwards. Memaw and Papaw decided not to have any more children, but they accidentally had another son. Luckily, he turned out to be Rh-.

[Captain Amazing]

Even overlooking the fact that Ferguson was mixed up about the risk for "European/Chinese" pairings, I have to ask: what year did he write that stuff? Nowadays, the risk of hemolytic disease of the newborn should not be an issue in any place where there's access to modern 'Western' medicine - it's preventable. We did a thread on that (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=616343) a few months ago.

I read his introduction, and he's talking about absent modern medicine. He's saying that there are evolutionary biologists who suggest that people have a natural tendency to seek out mates who are neither too genetically close or genetically distinct from them, and part of that could have to do with fetal problems caused by excessive inbreeding or excessive outbreeding.

[njtt]

I read his introduction, and he's talking about absent modern medicine. He's saying that there are evolutionary biologists who suggest that people have a natural tendency to seek out mates who are neither too genetically close or genetically distinct from them, and part of that could have to do with fetal problems caused by excessive inbreeding or excessive outbreeding.

So it is supposed to explain why white men don't find Asian women hot, is it? :rolleyes:

[China Guy]

ON the surface this seems like total bullcrap. I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. My wife is Chinese, we know tons of Amerasians, there were no warnings issued when pregnant. If this was a significant problem, I think I would have heard something by now.

[Voluble]

ON the surface this seems like total bullcrap. I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. My wife is Chinese, we know tons of Amerasians, there were no warnings issued when pregnant. If this was a significant problem, I think I would have heard something by now.

Apparently if the other posts in this thread are to be believed then western man and eastern woman is not the pairing most likely to cause problems. I guess there could also be a PC element at work where a doctor would be loath to bring up the subject. But even were it true it would not be a moral issue, just a biological one. How this would affect cultures and behaviors would be interesting.

As one aspect I would wonder for instance how the Catholic Church would feel about how much intervention should be provided to try the bring the child to term. Would it be OK to have no intervention and allow the baby to come to term or not come to term naturally or would they be required to do everything possible to save it? I can see a moral distinction in my mind between this and abortion but effectively it is maybe the difference between benign neglect and actively doing harm to the fetus.

If this effect were more pronounced could it have kept the Mongol hordes from dominating the West had they continued to advance? Lots of fodder for alt histories here.

[ENugent]

ON the surface this seems like total bullcrap. I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. My wife is Chinese, we know tons of Amerasians, there were no warnings issued when pregnant. If this was a significant problem, I think I would have heard something by now.

Well, it may slightly increase risk - for something that they test everyone for anyway. Why bother to point out the change in risk if you're going to test for it no matter who it is?

[WhyNot]

Well, it may slightly increase risk - for something that they test everyone for anyway. Why bother to point out the change in risk if you're going to test for it no matter who it is?

Actually, most doctors don't even bother testing anyone for Rh incompatibility anymore. All Rh- mothers are treated with Rhogam. Doesn't even matter what Dad's blood type is, as Dad might not be Genetic Dad of this fetus (first rule of medicine: patients lie. Pregnant patients lie just as much as other patients.)

I suppose if the fetal (or umbilical) blood was tested for something else, you could ask your doctor to test it for Rh factor while he was at it, but most of us don't get our fetus' blood tested.

[ENugent]

Actually, most doctors don't even bother testing anyone for Rh incompatibility anymore. All Rh- mothers are treated with Rhogam. Doesn't even matter what Dad's blood type is, as Dad might not be Genetic Dad of this fetus (first rule of medicine: patients lie. Pregnant patients lie just as much as other patients.)
That's actually what I meant - you're going to test the mother for Rh factor anyway, so why bring up the racial aspect?