Orly Taitz resurfaces in New Hampshire [Archive]

Budget Player Cadet

11-21-2011, 07:50 AM

The whole Birther movement is beyond retarded. The first (and in my opinion most logically consequent) question would be: "what would hypothetically convince you that Obama is a United States citizen?" First they asked for his birth certificate. When it was supplied, they demanded the long-form version. When that was supplied, they cried that it was a forgery. Meanwhile there is absolutely no evidence that would indicate that he's not a US citizen, and sufficient evidence to the contrary to place severe doubt on that position.

But furthermore... what's the big deal? It's a part of the constitution that has become truly no longer relevant in today's world. If Obama wasn't a US citizen, it would be a legal catastrophe... But this isn't some issue like him passing wide-spread censorship laws, or outlawing the ownership of anything more dangerous than a pair of safety scissors, or declaring war on Russia. This is him not being a born citizen. That's not a huge deal. At least, not 3-year-long, fanatic-devotion witch hunt level. It has absolutely no effect on his ability to implement policy or make decisions in the name of the USA – we voted for him, remember?

The Birthers are on a similar mental level to those who doubt the veracity of the moon landing or who believe that 9/11 was a controlled demolition, and the fact that we have representatives in congress who believe this is kinda depressing.

Steve MB

11-21-2011, 09:15 AM

Budget Player Cadet

11-21-2011, 10:13 AM

If there were any validity to the Birther claims, then, yes, it would be a big deal that the President is legally ineligible. If you think that this provision of the Constitution is "no longer relevant in today's world", then the proper response is to amend the Constitution to repeal it.

I mean on a purely moral level. I'm aware that it would be a legal disaster, but I don't really care; it wouldn't really mean anything if our laws weren't stupid.

That said, the Birthers are in fact a cavalcade of crackpots who can produce no substantiation whatsoever for their bizarre conspiracy theories, so the question is moot (except insofar as it forces evaluation of how, exactly, the eligibility of a Presidential candidate is to be confirmed in general)>

I loved that one skit where Jon Stewart demanded to see Trump's birth certificate because he was eating pizza with a fork.

Belowjob2.0

11-21-2011, 10:45 AM

Obama, and the family who raised him in entirety, are all descendants of old stock Americans. Their heritage literally goes back to the Mayflower.

In their minds, his African biological dad makes all of this irrelevant.

DianaG

11-21-2011, 10:53 AM

100% of Birthers are racists, retards, or some combination thereof. There are no exceptions to this rule.

Snowboarder Bo

11-21-2011, 10:54 AM

Some of the quotes from Taitz' supporters are awesome! Check these out:

"There's sufficient controversy that I want it investigated," Rappaport, a Ron Paul supporter, said yesterday. "Every time this is brought up . . . we get a lot of flak, but we've never gotten an answer."

Yeah, I guess those birth certificates weren't "an answer" somehow. How?

"I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but even I could take that apart and see that it was fraudulent," Rappaport said of the long-form certificate.

Indeed, neither you nor your comrades-in-arms are the sharpest knives in any drawer.

Lucien Vita said the birth certificate issue "should have been put to bed years ago" and also believes the documents released by Obama were forged.

"Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see," he said.

I'm pretty sure that's not exactly what Ben Franklin said. You got the quote you are basing your argument and philosophy on wrong, but you still want me to give credence to your suppositions?

Vita said he's confident the Republican candidates are American citizens "because these people have all held other state offices" - though he acknowledged that could also apply to Obama, who was a U.S. senator before being elected president.

"We know where they were born," Vita said of the Republicans. "There's a level of credibility with Obama that has not sufficiently been met in my eyes. If he's a citizen, he should be able to prove it."

:eek:

Are you fucking kidding me?

MeanOldLady

11-21-2011, 11:07 AM

:smack:

Oh my god, I thought this idiot hung herself out of shame when Obama finally humored the squawking jerks by showing his full form cert to everyone. Speaking of idiocy from the Taintz crowd:

"I have doubts because of the delay in the time it actually took to come out with a long-form birth certificate," Vita said. "I don't want to go through another four years of the same tripe."Oh dear. The short form certificate wasn't enough, so he brought out the long form so you all would quit this silliness, but you don't buy that either because he took too long? What else could he possibly do at this point to silence this circus? I already knew there's nothing Obama or anyone can say or do to prove his citizenship to these clowns, but actually reading their idiocy in print (again... I don't know why I click on links like this that I know will only irritate me) I get a headache from their illogic on top of the ache I already had this morning from a vicious, vicious hangover.

gonzomax

11-21-2011, 11:10 AM

Ogre

11-21-2011, 11:13 AM

I swear to God it's only a matter of time before one of these lunatics does something violent.

davidm

11-21-2011, 11:16 AM

These are people who are desperate to get Obama out of office any way they can and they're searching for reasons. This comes from their fear his Presidency will result in... uh... something.

I can't quite figure out what that something is. Cats sleeping with dogs, gays marrying, blacks and whites marrying, brown people moving in next door, healthy school lunches, death panels, communism, fascism, Sharia law, terrorism, a Muslim dictatorship by Christian minister Reverend Wright.

I don't know. I can't figure it out.

Exapno Mapcase

11-21-2011, 11:16 AM

There's the sensible party, the silly party, and the birthers or the Raving Looney Party (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FFTx6AKmU).

Four state legislators are in on this! Four!

davidm

11-21-2011, 11:19 AM

What can he possible give to her now? The short form, not good enough. Long form, not good enough. What does she need ,movies of his birth? Then she would say they were faked.
Birthers are really crazy.
Movies of his birth on an Hawaiian beach with Don Ho and Jack Lord in attendance wouldn't convince these people.

howye

11-21-2011, 11:19 AM

I don't know. I can't figure it out.

And neither can they.

MeanOldLady

11-21-2011, 11:23 AM

Movies of his birth on an Hawaiian beach with Don Ho and Jack Lord in attendance wouldn't convince these people.But I would totally favorite that on YouTube.

Exapno Mapcase

11-21-2011, 11:29 AM

Movies of his birth on an Hawaiian beach with Don Ho and Jack Lord in attendance wouldn't convince these people.

Birth Certificate him, Danno.

DrumBum

11-21-2011, 02:07 PM

There's the sensible party, the silly party, and the birthers or the Raving Looney Party (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FFTx6AKmU).

Perhaps this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party) would work as well. :D

Kolga

11-21-2011, 02:30 PM

The ONLY thing that Obama can give these people that will shut them up is a letter that contains the sentence, "I hereby resign as President of the United States."

That's what they really want. I'd be willing to bet all the money in my pockets right now that most of the Birthers don't believe there's a problem with his citizenship. They just don't want him in office, and this is the way they think they can accomplish that task, by getting enough idiots out there to believe there's something fishy.

mnemosyne

11-21-2011, 04:56 PM

So part of the argument now is that he may hypothetically be a dual citizen?

Since countries can pretty much decide who is and who isn't a citizen (yeah, I know, it's not that easy) I would love it if random countries would unilaterally declare the next Republican candidate a citizen. Canada, Germany, maybe we can get South Korea in on it (OMG he's a COMMIE!).

I want to watch people's heads explode.

Frank

11-21-2011, 05:32 PM

So part of the argument now is that he may hypothetically be a dual citizen?
He was, technically, a dual citizen of the U.S. and Kenya as a minor. In order to retain his Kenyan citizenship, he needed to proactively accept it, and affirmatively renounce his U.S. citizenship at the age of majority. He did not do so, and hence does not have Kenyan citizenship.

He was never an Indonesian citizen.

You've got to keep in mind, these people are nuts.

Skald the Rhymer

11-21-2011, 05:37 PM

But furthermore... what's the big deal?

The big deal is that they wish to call him a nigger and foolishly think this is a discreet way of doing so.

OttoDaFe

11-21-2011, 07:26 PM

You forgot "uppity."

Little Nemo

11-21-2011, 08:12 PM

Kolga

11-21-2011, 08:21 PM

You forgot "uppity."

Rush has got that covered (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/rush-limbaugh-michelle-obama-uppity-ism_n_1105989.html?ref=media), at least in reference to Michelle Obama.

Little Nemo

11-21-2011, 08:22 PM

The reality is that birthers are a bunch of lost and confused people. They want to live in the America of their imagination. The country they think used to exist back in the good old days. "Our" country - a place where "they" weren't around. It's not just black people that disturb them. They don't understand Jews or foreigners or gays or city people or hippies or feminists or teenagers - the world is a big scary place and they want it to go away.

Savannah

11-21-2011, 10:22 PM

davidm

11-22-2011, 12:14 AM

Birth Certificate him, Danno.It was an espionage plot involving Kenya, Red Chinese spy Wo Fat, and a half-breed baby. Somehow Mcgarret's former military career factors in, an old girlfriend shows up - and dies, and some dirty hippy living in a beach hut doesn't realize that he's involved in something more than just hustling tourists.

Onomatopoeia

11-22-2011, 04:54 AM

The big deal is that they wish to call him a nigger and foolishly think this is a discreet way of doing so.

That's how I explained it to my husband a year or so ago. They really want to call him a n-----, but can't. And it's made them insane.It's more than that though. In their America, there's no way a black man can be president, so he must be illegitimate.

Bill Door

11-22-2011, 06:31 AM

The birthers just got through eight years of saying "Whether you voted for him or not, he is the President of the Uited States, and failure to support him is treason." Then they ended up with a Democratic Negro Person in the White House. They could tolerate the Negro thing, if it had been Condi or Colin, they could tolerate the Democratic thing, if he'd been white, but the two of them together were intolerable, therefore, with the power of magical thinking, he wasn't really the president.

Tristan

11-22-2011, 07:20 AM

I'll be waiting anxiously for the RNC to officially denounce the STATE SENATORS who were part and parcel of this particular run of idiocy.

Somehow, I don't think it will happen.

BrainGlutton

11-22-2011, 07:49 AM

Really Not All That Bright

11-22-2011, 09:08 AM

I'll be waiting anxiously for the RNC to officially denounce the STATE SENATORS who were part and parcel of this particular run of idiocy.

Somehow, I don't think it will happen.
Well, it might. The RNC has semi-officially disavowed birtherism (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2011/0426/RNC-Chair-Donald-Trump-is-wrong-on-birther-issue-video).

Capitaine Zombie

11-22-2011, 01:30 PM

she's going to stuff it in her mouth and swallow it before anyone can stop her.

She does that with a lot of things.

Euphonious Polemic

11-22-2011, 02:24 PM

Well, it might. The RNC has semi-officially disavowed birtherism (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2011/0426/RNC-Chair-Donald-Trump-is-wrong-on-birther-issue-video).

Here's the frightening quote from that April 2011 article:

A New York Times/CBS poll conducted April 15-20 found the birther issue resonates with Republican voters. Among the public at large, 25 percent thought President Obama was not a ”natural born citizen.” Among Republicans, 45 percent said they believe he was born outside the US. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percent.

45% of Republicans who replied to that poll were THAT deluded, and THAT stupid, and THAT manipulated.

<shakes head>

MeanOldLady

11-22-2011, 02:31 PM

Gods, who was it on Meet The Press who wouldn't just say flat out that the birthers were a band of lunatics? Was it T-Paw when he still thought he could be President? It was a prominent GOP member, not someone's no-name alderman from Assfuck, Virginia.

Edit: I got impatient and Googled it myself. It was John Boner. Good job, JB!

Chronos

11-22-2011, 04:39 PM

MEBuckner

11-22-2011, 05:11 PM

But furthermore... what's the big deal? It's a part of the constitution that has become truly no longer relevant in today's world. If Obama wasn't a US citizen, it would be a legal catastrophe... But this isn't some issue like him passing wide-spread censorship laws, or outlawing the ownership of anything more dangerous than a pair of safety scissors, or declaring war on Russia. This is him not being a born citizen. That's not a huge deal. At least, not 3-year-long, fanatic-devotion witch hunt level. It has absolutely no effect on his ability to implement policy or make decisions in the name of the USA – we voted for him, remember?
That's true if we're talking about some weak-tea Revisionist Birtherism whereby, OK, sure, President Obama was born in Honolulu, but because his father was Kenyan and his mother was only 18 the future President therefore had Dual Citizenship and was a Subject of the British Empire at birth and is therefore technically not eligible for the Presidency according to this inkblot they found on the original copy of the Constitution kept in the nitrogen-filled bulletproof glass case in the National Archives.

In True Blue Birtherism, on the other hand, President Obama was actually born in Kenya. If that were true, then there has been a massive Conspiracy which planted a short-form birth certificate, a long-form birth certificate, and birth announcements in the Honolulu newspapers fifty years ago as part of a deep-laid plot to plant a moderate centrist Democrat with a funny-sounding name in the White House. Presumably They are now just waiting for the time to be ripe to order their pawn to sign off on the Executive Order transferring all the money from the Federal Reserve Bank to the secret bank accounts in Nairobi.

Euphonious Polemic

11-22-2011, 05:47 PM

They are now just waiting for the time to be ripe to order their pawn to sign off on the Executive Order transferring all the money from the Federal Reserve Bank to the secret bank accounts in Nairobi.

Well I hope it happens soon, because Mr. Bento Mbouti has promised me 30% of the total once he has satisfied all modalities.

Jragon

11-22-2011, 06:22 PM

Well, you know, we can't END the birther nonsense, but maybe we can channel towards more... useful causes. I say we get some physicists and engineers in on the crazy, and then drive them so bonkers with needing to disprove his citizenship we get a working time machine.

Onomatopoeia

11-22-2011, 06:25 PM

While we're at it, John McCain is a dual citizen of the US and Panama. I find it especially amusing (in a, you know, not-amusing-at-all way) that this whole farce started when the other guy really wasn't born in the US, and technically wasn't even a citizen of the US at the time of his birth under the laws then in place.Hmm... Now I wonder why McCain's citizenship wasn't questioned when Obama's was. I know there's a reason, I just can't seem to quite put my finger on it. Wow. Ever have one of those moments when something so obvious is staring you right in the face but you simply don't see it? It's on the tip of my tongue. No, no, don't tell me...

MeanOldLady

11-22-2011, 06:30 PM

It was, for all of thirty seconds, and then Democrats were like, "Oh, he was born of American parents on a freaking U.S. military base" and let it the fuck go.

kenetic

11-22-2011, 08:09 PM

While we're at it, John McCain is a dual citizen of the US and Panama. I find it especially amusing (in a, you know, not-amusing-at-all way) that this whole farce started when the other guy really wasn't born in the US, and technically wasn't even a citizen of the US at the time of his birth under the laws then in place.

No, he was born in a US territory that is now part of Panama. He might be eligible for Panamanian citizenship, but as far as I know he's never attempted to claim it.

Also, he's white and properly "American" by whatever ineffable standards the birthers hold.

Onomatopoeia

11-23-2011, 02:05 AM

Hmm... Now I wonder why McCain's citizenship wasn't questioned when Obama's was. I know there's a reason, I just can't seem to quite put my finger on it. Wow. Ever have one of those moments when something so obvious is staring you right in the face but you simply don't see it? It's on the tip of my tongue. No, no, don't tell me...

Also, he's white and properly "American" by whatever ineffable standards the birthers hold.AH! That's it! I knew it would come to me.

Tristan

11-23-2011, 08:54 AM

Well, it might. The RNC has semi-officially disavowed birtherism (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2011/0426/RNC-Chair-Donald-Trump-is-wrong-on-birther-issue-video).

The RNC has semi-kinda-mostly disavowed it.

It would like to see them censure or whatever the mouth breathing cretins who are walking in retarded lockstep with Orly on this one.

That won't happen.

John DiFool

11-24-2011, 06:02 PM

Every time I hear her name I immediately think of this picture (http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg?1229112642).

Steve MB

11-24-2011, 06:09 PM

Every time I hear her name I immediately think of this picture (http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg?1229112642).

Or this one (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dQTWC3HMx80/TsWhGm9zL4I/AAAAAAAAAmc/BDUYroI1_r0/s320/OrlyTaitzOwl.jpg).

Katriona

11-25-2011, 11:32 AM

100% of Birthers are racists, retards, or some combination thereof. There are no exceptions to this rule.

Yep. I discovered this yesterday when my uncle revealed himself to be a birther. He tried really hard to keep race out of it, but we were shutting him down at every turn.

Where's the birth certificate? Well, he's released 2, how many do you want?

They're obviously fakes. Funny, the copy I had to request for my husband when I was joining the DAR looks exactly like the "short form" version released in 2008, except Tony's says Washington instead of Hawaii. That was acceptable enough to get him a passport, get him into the army, and me into that oh-so-conservative bastion of WASPiness, the DAR.

And on and on and on. We mostly just got a deer-in-headlights look when he couldn't refute anything we said and he'd try to move on to the next thing.

(We actually think he's developing dementia or something. He's gone completely out of character on some non-political things recently, too)

Rick Kitchen

12-21-2011, 12:07 AM

There's now the deluded discovery that since there is a Native Hawaiian movement to declare the takeover of the Kingdom of Hawaii illegal, that means that Hawaii is not a legal state, and therefore Obama was not born in the United States. Or else since Obama's mother was only 18 1/2 when she gave birth, she had not been a legal US citizen for the full length of time that is required (in some secret document) to be a native born citizen.

And now Orly Taitz is running for the Senate from California. Because she did so well in the last election when she ran for state Secretary of State and lost the Republican primary to, shudders, a black man!

Alessan

12-21-2011, 07:09 AM

Seeing as she's not a natural-born citizen, I don't think she should be allowed to hold office.

Left Hand of Dorkness

12-21-2011, 07:22 AM

What is it with women born in the Soviet Union moving to the United States and starting insane political movements that capture the minds of Republicans?

Gyrate

12-21-2011, 07:28 AM

Fun fact: opponents of Polish President Bronisław Komorowski have started rumors that his grandfather (IIRC) was actually a murdering Cossack who slit the throats of the real Komorowski and stole his identity, and thus the President is actually a fake and (worse) a Russian.

Every country has its crazies with their theories about the ruling elite, although I think the UK wins with David Icke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke) and the "they're all lizards!" theory.

Really Not All That Bright

12-21-2011, 08:48 AM

Well, yes, but Icke's theories cover everyone else's ruling elite as well as Britain's. I know he declared that Obama, Clinton, both Presidents Bush were lizards. Annunaki, I think.

StusBlues

12-21-2011, 09:03 AM

I sincerely hope that the members of New Hampshire's Ballot Law Commission are not being distracted from anything important to deal with this nonsense.

RickJay

12-21-2011, 09:20 AM

When Obama released the long form certificate I and a hundred thousand others said it would make no different to the Birthers and of course that prediction has turned out to be absolutely true. Not that I'm taking a lot of pride in it. It's like predicting the sun will rise in the East.

There are two kinds of people who believe in conspiracy theories; people who just sort of mildly buy something because they heard something about it and haven't though a lot about it, and people who are really invested in the idea. You can help the former, but not the latter.

There is no evidence, none, no real evidence, no theoretical evidence, none whatsoever, that will convince a birther that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. It doesn't matter what documents, what evidence, what witnesses, or what logic you provide. If you have a video of his birth with Pearl Harbor visible in the background it would make no difference. If you presented with with a working time machine and whisked them back to 1961 to personally witness the birth, it would make no difference. There is nothing you can do.

This applies to 9/11 truthers, moon hoax believers, etc. Go after the people who believe in shit CASUALLY. Don't bother worrying about the Taitzes. She's nuts and someday she'll be dead and that'll be that.

Rhythmdvl

12-21-2011, 10:48 AM

Bah, what a cynical view :rolleyes:

I'm sure when Sheriff Joe and his 'Cold Case Posse' conclude their investigation (their real investigation, as opposed to everything that's come before), they will either reveal shocking concrete evidence of shenanigans or completely vindicate and put to rest the question of citizenship.

(mmmmm..... Poe's Law!)

Steve MB

12-21-2011, 02:04 PM

There is no evidence, none, no real evidence, no theoretical evidence, none whatsoever, that will convince a birther that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. It doesn't matter what documents, what evidence, what witnesses, or what logic you provide. If you have a video of his birth with Pearl Harbor visible in the background it would make no difference. If you presented with with a working time machine and whisked them back to 1961 to personally witness the birth, it would make no difference. There is nothing you can do.

Well, duh. Producing more evidence isn't going to turn him white.

BrainGlutton

12-21-2011, 02:34 PM

Well, yes, but Icke's theories cover everyone else's ruling elite as well as Britain's. I know he declared that Obama, Clinton, both Presidents Bush were lizards. Annunaki, I think.

Not true, but I'm pretty sure Boehner is a lizard. (You can tell by how oblivious he appears to his failure to simulate human coloring.)

jayjay

12-21-2011, 03:02 PM

What is it with women born in the Soviet Union moving to the United States and starting insane political movements that capture the minds of Republicans?

What's scary is that Ayn is the sane one...

MEBuckner

12-21-2011, 05:25 PM

If you have a video of his birth with Pearl Harbor visible in the background it would make no difference.
:eek:

Barack Obama was responsible for the ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR?!?!!1!

OMG! It all fits! BARACK OBAMA IS REALLY A JAPANESE KAMIKAZE PILOT FROM 1941!!! He's one of those guys who's been hiding out in the jungle, refusing to accept the War is over, and now he's going to Destroy America in order to avenge the Emperor!!!

Ludovic

12-21-2011, 05:45 PM

OMG! It all fits! BARACK OBAMA IS REALLY A JAPANESE KAMIKAZE PILOT FROM 1941!!! He's one of those guys who's been hiding out in the jungle
Your theory is clearly ludicrous. He hasn't been hiding out in the jungle, but rather an uncharted desert island, which explains the tan.

Snowboarder Bo

12-21-2011, 06:02 PM

Your theory is clearly ludicrous. He hasn't been hiding out in the jungle, but rather an uncharted desert island, which explains the tan.

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that Barack Obama is really Gilligan? Or Amelia Earhart?

j666

12-21-2011, 07:23 PM

The big deal is that they wish to call him a nigger and foolishly think this is a discreet way of doing so.
I suspect in private many do.
The reality is that birthers are a bunch of lost and confused people. They want to live in the America of their imagination. The country they think used to exist back in the good old days. "Our" country - a place where "they" weren't around. It's not just black people that disturb them. They don't understand Jews or foreigners or gays or city people or hippies or feminists or teenagers - the world is a big scary place and they want it to go away.
I'm sorry, but what? What are you talking about? The Birthers are not all in their [... calculating ...] 70s or above, it would have to be. Jews, foreigners, city people and teenagers have been around for a long time - over three hundred years. As for hippies (?), gays, and feminists ... okay, you probably don't remember the sixties.

Civil rights, Woodstock, Stonewall, Our Bodies Ourselves, etc ... that was all over forty years ago. People have been born, grown up, had children, and possibly become grandparents in that time. And all that time, they had radio, movies, and television to bring the larger world to them. In fact, they've had internet for half that time. There are Birthers who have never know a time before the internet. The Birther 'good old days' are not some rose-colored vision of men in fedoras and women in kitchens.

So, no, I am not going to accept your vision of the Birthers as Grandpa and Grandma Walton on their rockers in the mountains, ready to open the hearts to everyone as soon as they get to know them.

Little Nemo

12-21-2011, 07:29 PM

I'm sorry, but what? What are you talking about? The Birthers are not all in their [... calculating ...] 70s or above, it would have to be. Jews, foreigners, city people and teenagers have been around for a long time - over three hundred years. As for hippies (?), gays, and feminists ... okay, you probably don't remember the sixties.

Civil rights, Woodstock, Stonewall, Our Bodies Ourselves, etc ... that was all over forty years ago. People have been born, grown up, had children, and possibly become grandparents in that time. And all that time, they had radio, movies, and television to bring the larger world to them. In fact, they've had internet for half that time. There are Birthers who have never know a time before the internet. The Birther 'good old days' are not some rose-colored vision of men in fedoras and women in kitchens.

So, no, I am not going to accept your vision of the Birthers as Grandpa and Grandma Walton on their rockers in the mountains, ready to open the hearts to everyone as soon as they get to know them.I'm definitely not talking about whatever it is you're talking about. I didn't make any mention of old age or grandparents. A lot of these people are younger than me (and, for the record, I grew up in the sixties).

As I pointed out, the life they're imagining is fiction - America was never really the way they think it was. A genuinely old person who lived back in those "good old days" would be more likely to realize that then somebody who's basing their knowledge off of nostalgia.

j666

12-21-2011, 07:55 PM

... for the record, I grew up in the sixties.
So doesn't it annoy you when people imply people our age should be given a pass on ignorance and prejudice, because things were so different?
I've been seeing a lot of that recently, and I jumped all over you about it, I guess. I apologize for that.

Yeah, things we different - we were ashamed of our prejudices and worked to overcome them. Isn't there some age limit on "s/he doesn't know any better?"

Exapno Mapcase

12-21-2011, 08:32 PM

So doesn't it annoy you when people imply people our age should be given a pass on ignorance and prejudice, because things were so different?
I've been seeing a lot of that recently, and I jumped all over you about it, I guess. I apologize for that.

Yeah, things we different - we were ashamed of our prejudices and worked to overcome them. Isn't there some age limit on "s/he doesn't know any better?"

Only in your dreams and hopes. Reality doesn't work that way.

Rhythmdvl

12-21-2011, 08:36 PM

Only in your dreams and hopes. Reality doesn't work that way.

My hopes and dreams involve the Swedish Women's Volleyball Team.

Reality doesn't work that way either. :(

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 07:29 AM

Rhythmdvl

12-22-2011, 07:40 AM

Hate to burst your bubbles Obots, but the Birthers were right all along!

The American People WAKE UP after the Library of Congress proves Obama NOT to be a US Citizen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dbtOoX3exk

Oh that's just so sad that there are people out there who actually believe the twisted logic within. People who drive. People who operate heavy machinery. People who prepare food for others. People who

HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING AT 2:45??!?!

My eyes.... my poor eyes...

ETA:

DID THE HORROR JUST WINK AT 3:29?!

AHHHHHHHH!

Jack Batty

12-22-2011, 07:44 AM

Why do all the best fruit-cake videos get posted when I don't have access to YouTube. It's just not fair, I tell you.

Gyrate

12-22-2011, 08:00 AM

When did GLaDOS become a Birther?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:02 AM

Oh that's just so sad that there are people out there who actually believe the twisted logic within.

NO, the SAD thing is that you call the Constitutional Framers' words TWISTED LOGIC. Tell me numbnuts, if you can't take the words from the Framer's themselves, who authored the 14th amendment and EXPLAINED it to you, CLEAR AS DAY, then who would you like us to believe instead?

YOU ARE A PATHETIC AMERICAN!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:04 AM

Why do all the best fruit-cake videos get posted when I don't have access to YouTube. It's just not fair, I tell you.

Don't worry, if you saw it, you would see how embarrassing you look now!

NUTTIN BUT FACTS MY FRIEND, that proves the Birthers were RIGHT, all along!

Maybe you can watch it over here on LiveLeak?:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=381_1323479550

Jack Batty

12-22-2011, 08:10 AM

Maybe you can just smear some feces on the wall and I can interpret that instead.

Frank

12-22-2011, 08:12 AM

Tell me numbnuts, if you can't take the words from the Framer's themselves, who authored the 14th amendment and EXPLAINED it to you, CLEAR AS DAY, then who would you like us to believe instead?
In what way is Obama ineligible for the Presidency under the 14th amendment?

(The 14th amendment (1868) was not, by the way, authored by the Framers (1787-1788).)

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 08:17 AM

Maybe you can just smear some feces on the wall and I can interpret that instead.

That isn't too much different from what he did. Holy fuck, I want my 21 minutes back. Chester Fucking Arthur wasn't a citizen? As far as I can tell, the only people born here who would be excluded from citizenship are children of diplomats and royalty and such, who aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the US (which is I believe why they can't get parking tickets).

Rhythmdvl

12-22-2011, 08:22 AM

I can NOW see your POINT and my MIND WAS CHANGED! Surprisingly, all IT TOOK was the RIGHT capiTALIzation!

The cake is a lie.

jayjay

12-22-2011, 08:26 AM

When did GLaDOS become a Birther?

Meh. Not enough passive-aggressive manipulation.

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 08:29 AM

HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING AT 2:45??!?!

Barbie on acid.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:31 AM

Maybe you can just smear some feces on the wall and I can interpret that instead.

FECES, that's how you describe our Framers? SAAAAAAAD!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:40 AM

In what way is Obama ineligible for the Presidency under the 14th amendment?

(The 14th amendment (1868) was not, by the way, authored by the Framers (1787-1788).)

The people who FRAMED the 14th amendment were the FRAMERS OF THE 14th AMENDMENT, NO?

Did you not watch the video, FRANK? Everything is explained in the video!

CLEARLY at 13:05 in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dbtOoX3exk
Senator Lyman Trumbull (The ONE who added in the Citizenship Clause amendment to the 14th amendment bill) explains the Citizenship Clause and what it meant:
"The provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANYBODY ELSE. That is what it means."

Here is the link to the ORIGINAL document:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=073/llcg073.db&recNum=14

I would believe the person who WROTE the law over an Obot TRYING to interpret what he meant!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:42 AM

That isn't too much different from what he did. Holy fuck, I want my 21 minutes back. Chester Fucking Arthur wasn't a citizen? As far as I can tell, the only people born here who would be excluded from citizenship are children of diplomats and royalty and such, who aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the US (which is I believe why they can't get parking tickets).

I DID the research for over two years. What is so hard to understand, why the truth is right in front of your face?

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 08:42 AM

It doesn't matter what he meant. What matters is what he wrote; it's not the fault of the courts if Trumbull wrote something other than what he intended.

Mods, can we keep the troll? Please?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:43 AM

I can NOW see your POINT and my MIND WAS CHANGED! Surprisingly, all IT TOOK was the RIGHT capiTALIzation!

The cake is a lie.

GREAT, now got shout it on the mountaintop!

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 08:45 AM

Mods, can we keep the troll? Please?

I agree. He amuses me.

BrainGlutton

12-22-2011, 08:47 AM

The people who FRAMED the 14th amendment were the FRAMERS OF THE 14th AMENDMENT, NO?

Nevertheless, that is not what the word means.

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 08:47 AM

I DID the research for over two years. What is so hard to understand, why the truth is right in front of your face?

Two years? I found this in two minutes:
During the debate on the Amendment, Senator John Conness of California declared, "The proposition before us, I will say, Mr. President, relates simply in that respect to the children begotten of Chinese parents in California, and it is proposed to declare that they shall be citizens. We have declared that by law [the Civil Rights Act]; now it is proposed to incorporate that same provision in the fundamental instrument of the nation. I am in favor of doing so. I voted for the proposition to declare that the children of all parentage, whatever, born in California, should be regarded and treated as citizens of the United States, entitled to equal Civil Rights with other citizens.".

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:51 AM

It doesn't matter what he meant. What matters is what he wrote; it's not the fault of the courts if Trumbull wrote something other than what he intended.

Mods, can we keep the troll? Please?

Trumbull did WRITE EXACTLY what he intended, in the Civil Rights Act of 1866 (which he too authored) and was passed by the same Congress, months before the 14th amendment was passed. So, no NEED for redundancy!

1st line of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 says:
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States;"
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/reconstruction/section4/section4_civrightsact1.html

Sorry to break the BAD news, but Obama is NOT even a CITIZEN!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:53 AM

I agree. He amuses me.

I'm not a HE!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:55 AM

Nevertheless, that is not what the word means.

Nevertheless, it doesn't CHANGE what the GUY said and MEANT, no matter what you want to CALL him, now does it?

BrainGlutton

12-22-2011, 08:55 AM

I'm not a HE!

:confused: But, I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together.

BrainGlutton

12-22-2011, 08:57 AM

Nevertheless, it doesn't CHANGE what the GUY said and MEANT, no matter what you want to CALL him, now does it?

Skimming that clip, it all seems to be based on an argument from the 1860s under which Indians can't be "natural born citizens." Less said of that the better.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:57 AM

Two years? I found this in two minutes:

LOLOL and just WHAT is that GARBAGE?

Thanks, but I will stick to the person who WROTE the Bills/Amendments!

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 08:57 AM

Sorry to break the BAD news, but Obama is NOT even a CITIZEN!
Of course he is. He has a Hawaiian birth certificate and a US passport. His election has been ratified by Congress.

Sorry to break the bad news, but your crazy-ass theories have been thoroughly debunked and the world has moved on.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:58 AM

:confused: But, I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together.

Sorry, but I am NOT together with these OBOTS!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 08:59 AM

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:02 AM

Of course he is. He has a Hawaiian birth certificate and a US passport. His election has been ratified by Congress.

Sorry to break the bad news, but your crazy-ass theories have been thoroughly debunked and the world has moved on.

hahahaha, it's funny how I show Congressional Documents to support my facts and you still call them theories...

It wouldn't matter if he was born on the White House steps, his father was never a citizen, which means Obama can NEVER be a Natural Born Citizen.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:02 AM

LOLOL and just WHAT is that GARBAGE?

Thanks, but I will stick to the person who WROTE the Bills/Amendments!
The person who writes bills and amendments is not the only person who has to pass them. They're voted on by Congress and/or the state legislatures. If Trumbull couldn't get what he wanted passed, that's his problem.

Let's say that I am a legislator in the State of X. I propose legislation that says, "no municipality shall tax tobacco products" and put it up for a vote. Then, during debate on my bill, I say, "by the way, I really meant 'no municipality shall tax loose leaf tobacco'". Another legislator says, "but that's not what you wrote, is it? This bill will outlaw city taxes on cigarettes."

The bill passes.

Do you think the courts will give a shit about what I said, when I didn't bother to fix what I'd written?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:04 AM

ALL THE FACTS YOU NEED, are on my Youtube Channel (170+ videos): http://www.youtube.com/user/KenyanBornObamAcorn/videos?sort=dd&view=u

Gyrate

12-22-2011, 09:07 AM

I'm sorry, BobLibDem, but I cannot accept your argument unless you agree to capitalize random words and make up new definitions for some of them.

I propose redefining "fundamental", "nation", "parentage" and "Chinese", and putting every fifth word in all caps. That oughta do it.

Trumbull did WRITE EXACTLY what he intended, in the Civil Rights Act of 1866 (which he too authored) and was passed by the same Congress, months before the 14th amendment was passed. So, no NEED for redundancy!

1st line of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 says:
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States;"
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/reconstruction/section4/section4_civrightsact1.html

Sorry to break the BAD news, but Obama is NOT even a CITIZEN!LOLOLOL What is this GARBAGE?

This is not the exclusive definition of what constitutes a citizen. You wishing it were so does not make it so, and nearly 150 years of legal decisions and legislation agrees with me.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 09:07 AM

YOU ARE A PATHETIC AMERICAN!

Hate to burst your bubbles Obots, but the Birthers were right all along!
Please read the rules of the website. You are not allowed to insult other posters this way (and they're not supposed to call you names like troll or fruitcake). You need to be civil if you want to post here - or else you can just take this to The BBQ Pit, where there are fewer rules.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:08 AM

Where have my facts been debunked? Can you show me?
Not sure why I'm bothering, since you're clearly much too terrified of having a darkie for a president to change your mind at this stage, but sure: http://factcheck.org/2008/08/obamas-kenyan-citizenship/

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:11 AM

If Trumbull couldn't get what he wanted passed, that's his problem.

HELLO, you obviously didn't WATCH the video. When the 14th amendment came over from the House, it did NOT contain the Citizenship Clause and the bill failed several times.

Senators argued that the bill would allow our Country to be overrun by illegal immigrants and the bill would NOT pass until Trumbull added his amendment (The Citizenship Clause) to the bill and then it passed.

Pay attention and DO YOUR HOMEWORK before spouting off, would ya!

Ichbin Dubist

12-22-2011, 09:12 AM

Sorry, but I am NOT together with these OBOTS!

NO, but SOON the OBOTS will have changed the Constitution to make OBOTS American citizens and THEN we will finally complete our TAKEOVER of the US government -- DESTROYING your liberty, melting DOWN your guns, and emphasizing words in a disorienting, ROBOTIC manner. Puny human!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:15 AM

I sincerely hope that the members of New Hampshire's Ballot Law Commission are not being distracted from anything important to deal with this nonsense.

The ballot law commission hearing was ILLEGAL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_761488&src_vid=Nm_hDsEjj8Y&feature=iv&v=_uegi9wxRM4

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:15 AM

HELLO, you obviously didn't WATCH the video. When the 14th amendment came over from the House, it did NOT contain the Citizenship Clause and the bill failed several times.

Senators argued that the bill would allow our Country to be overrun by illegal immigrants and the bill would NOT pass until Trumbull added his amendment (The Citizenship Clause) to the bill and then it passed.

Pay attention and DO YOUR HOMEWORK before spouting off, would ya!
Of course I didn't watch the video. I'm at work and I have no interest in watching crackpot videos.

I've read the amendment. I've read the legislative history. If you wanted to convince people, you'd write this stuff down instead of posting YouTube videos.

Not even my crazy in-laws are convinced by things they see on YouTube.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:17 AM

Ludovic

12-22-2011, 09:20 AM

That's because the BC is a FORGERY. Show me one EXPERT that says it's NOT a forgery! I can show you MANY that say it's a FORGERY!......aaaaaand we're done. Nice try, though.

EvilTOJ

12-22-2011, 09:22 AM

Sorry, but I am NOT together with these OBOTS!

Yea no shit, everyone knows OBOTS were just cheap knockoffs of ANSFORMERS anyway.

Gyrate

12-22-2011, 09:22 AM

NO, but SOON the OBOTS will have changed the Constitution to make OBOTS American citizens and THEN we will finally complete our TAKEOVER of the US government -- DESTROYING your liberty, melting DOWN your guns, and emphasizing words in a disorienting, ROBOTIC manner. Puny human!Aha! OBOTs in disguise! The country will be transformed - there's clearly more than meets the eye going on here.

ETA: <shakes fist at EvilTOJ>

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:22 AM

Please read the rules of the website. You are not allowed to insult other posters this way (and they're not supposed to call you names like troll or fruitcake). You need to be civil if you want to post here - or else you can just take this to The BBQ Pit, where there are fewer rules.

SORRY, I just came across this, so if I called a name recently, please forgive me. I saw someone type F*CK with no problems and call me names, so I thought anything goes...MY BAD!

AtomicDog

12-22-2011, 09:25 AM

"We are the Obots. Existence, as you know it, is over. We will add your electoral and societal distinctiveness to our own. Your life will be adapted to service Obama. Resistance is futile."

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:27 AM

Not sure why I'm bothering, since you're clearly much too terrified of having a darkie for a president to change your mind at this stage, but sure: http://factcheck.org/2008/08/obamas-kenyan-citizenship/

hahaha factcheck.org

You ARE aware that factcheck.org is run by the Annenberg Foundation, the SAME Annenberg Foundation that Obama sat on the Baord for with his Chicago Annenberg Challenge...

Jus sayin...

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:28 AM

That's because the BC is a FORGERY. Show me one EXPERT that says it's NOT a forgery! I can show you MANY that say it's a FORGERY!
The Hawaiian state health director and governor, who have the last word on the matter.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:28 AM

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:29 AM

hahaha factcheck.org

You ARE aware that factcheck.org is run by the Annenberg Foundation, the SAME Annenberg Foundation that Obama sat on the Baord for with his Chicago Annenberg Challenge...

Jus sayin...
Yes. And? They've had no problems calling out Obama on things he said that aren't true. If you don't like FactCheck, try Politifact (http://www.politifact.com/subjects/obama-birth-certificate/).

Not that you won't have a pre-manufactured excuse to dismiss them too, of course.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:30 AM

Of course I didn't watch the video. I'm at work and I have no interest in watching crackpot videos.

I've read the amendment. I've read the legislative history. If you wanted to convince people, you'd write this stuff down instead of posting YouTube videos.

Not even my crazy in-laws are convinced by things they see on YouTube.

I have it all written down and will be using it during my petition to the court to remove Obama from the ballot. I will be going to court on jan 23, 2012!

Can't WAIT!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 09:30 AM

SORRY, I just came across this, so if I called a name recently, please forgive me. I saw someone type F*CK with no problems and call me names, so I thought anything goes...MY BAD!
I don't care about some cursing. We don't allow insults and name-calling unless you're posting in the Pit. It also wouldn't hurt if you toned it down with the caps lock and the shouting.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:31 AM

Of course I didn't watch the video. I'm at work and I have no interest in watching crackpot videos.

I've read the amendment. I've read the legislative history. If you wanted to convince people, you'd write this stuff down instead of posting YouTube videos.

Not even my crazy in-laws are convinced by things they see on YouTube.

To each his own. Keep your head in the sand, don't bother me!

Nobody Bodders Meeeeeeee

Lobohan

12-22-2011, 09:31 AM

That's because the BC is a FORGERY. Show me one EXPERT that says it's NOT a forgery! I can show you MANY that say it's a FORGERY!I'm an expert in graphic design and print production. It's legit. The errors people saw in illustrator are the results of scanning the doc with either the OCR or image optimization on.

I'm glad I could take this time to educate you on the subject.

Jack Batty

12-22-2011, 09:33 AM

I have it all written down and will be using it during my petition to the court to remove Obama from the ballot. I will be going to court on jan 23, 2012!

In spite of my previous interaction with you, I am BEGGING you (did I capitalize correctly?) to post a video of those precedings at your earliest convenience.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:33 AM

I have it all written down and will be using it during my petition to the court to remove Obama from the ballot. I will be going to court on jan 23, 2012!

Can't WAIT!
Perhaps I can save you some time and effort. (http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf) Hint: you're going to lose.
Nobody Bodders Meeeeeeee
Having a black president apparently bodders you.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 09:36 AM

I have it all written down and will be using it during my petition to the court to remove Obama from the ballot. I will be going to court on jan 23, 2012!
Just so you know, you're going to lose and the court may tell you to stop wasting its time. This argument has been heard and dismissed by a bunch of courts and every peg of it has been debunked over and over again.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:38 AM

The Hawaiian state health director and governor, who have the last word on the matter.

NOT without an amendment to the Constitution, THEY DON'T!
This will all come out, once ONE state removes Obama from the ballot.

You can help remove Obama from the ballot. See how you can help by going here:
http://obamaballotchallenge.com/

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:39 AM

Yes. And? They've had no problems calling out Obama on things he said that aren't true. If you don't like FactCheck, try Politifact (http://www.politifact.com/subjects/obama-birth-certificate/).

Not that you won't have a pre-manufactured excuse to dismiss them too, of course.

Thanks, but I will stick with the Library of Congress where the TRUTH can be found!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:42 AM

Perhaps I can save you some time and effort. (http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf) Hint: you're going to lose.

Having a black president apparently bodders you.

Yea and that's why I pushed for Cain and made videos supporting him!
Sorry, but your race card is DEAD!

I also say the Marco Rubio is NOT eligible, does that make me racist too?

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 09:43 AM

I have it all written down and will be using it during my petition to the court to remove Obama from the ballot. I will be going to court on jan 23, 2012!

Can't WAIT!

As amusing as your court appearance will be, I think you should reconsider it. You have no possibility whatsoever of winning, your case has no merit (as in zero, none, nada, zilch), and there is a possibility that you could be fined for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:44 AM

Just so you know, you're going to lose and the court may tell you to stop wasting its time. This argument has been heard and dismissed by a bunch of courts and every peg of it has been debunked over and over again.

Sorry, but this case has never been heard. Once it is heard on the merits, the truth will come out and you all will be proven wrong. That's why you/Obama are afraid to let a case move onto the merits...cause he will LOSE!

Frank

12-22-2011, 09:45 AM

Did you not watch the video, FRANK?
No, I didn't watch the video, and I won't watch it.

Please explain to me why Obama (and Rubio, I guess) are ineligible for the presidency under the terms of the 14th amendment.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:46 AM

As amusing as your court appearance will be, I think you should reconsider it. You have no possibility whatsoever of winning, your case has no merit (as in zero, none, nada, zilch), and there is a possibility that you could be fined for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

My state, clearly has in the law that you must be a natural born citizen and I have the proof that he isn't, straight from the Library of Congress. If they look at my facts, there's no way I can lose!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:48 AM

No, I didn't watch the video, and I won't watch it.

Please explain to me why Obama (and Rubio, I guess) are ineligible for the presidency under the terms of the 14th amendment.

I already answered this Frank, did you miss it?

Everyone seems to forget the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction", which is why the Law/Amendment went astray. If you look at the congressional debates when they were writing the 14th Amendment, you will find the truth and you will see that the 14th Amendment has been 100% perverted!

What exactly did "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" mean to the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment? Luckily we have Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment, and the one who inserted the phrase:

"The provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANYBODY ELSE. That is what it means." http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=073/llcg073.db&recNum=14

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:48 AM

Sorry, but this case has never been heard.
Yes it has (http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf). I posted a link above. You lost.

Lobohan

12-22-2011, 09:48 AM

...and I have the proof that he isn'tNo you don't.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:49 AM

No, I didn't watch the video, and I won't watch it.

That's why you will never know the truth!

I know, the truth hurts, I don't blame you for not watching it!

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:50 AM

Serious question: have you ever been prescribed psychoactive medication? Have you stopped taking it? If so, why?

Marley23

12-22-2011, 09:51 AM

You can help remove Obama from the ballot. See how you can help by going here:
http://obamaballotchallenge.com/
From the site rules:

This message board is intended as a medium for public discussion. Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, offers to trade or barter, charitable appeals, or other messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved.

You're welcome to debate this ridiculous point here - other people have tried - but if you just want to shout at people, ask them to sign petitions, and disregard what they're saying, then you're not going to last very long here.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:52 AM

Yes it has (http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf). I posted a link above. You lost.

We have hearings set in 5+ states already to remove Obama from the ballot and we are going in order of the Primary dates and will hit all 50 states. ONE state in 50 WILL look at the facts. This is different, because EVERY voter has standing on this issue and we will be heard!

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 09:52 AM

You can't wave away United States v Wong Kim Ark. The precedent is quite clear. You haven't a leg to stand on.

Frank

12-22-2011, 09:53 AM

"The provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.'
Obama was born in Hawaii, and was (and is) subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Frank

12-22-2011, 09:55 AM

That's why you will never know the truth!

I know, the truth hurts, I don't blame you for not watching it!
I don't generally click on links to videos here. It's not just you.

I do hope that you don't intend to stand up in court and January 23rd and tell the judge, "Just watch this video; it explains everything!" You must have some sort of coherent argument prepared for court, why not lay it out here?

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 09:58 AM

We have hearings set in 5+ states already to remove Obama from the ballot and we are going in order of the Primary dates and will hit all 50 states. ONE state in 50 WILL look at the facts. This is different, because EVERY voter has standing on this issue and we will be heard!
Read the opinion I linked to. An Indiana federal court did look at the facts.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 09:59 AM

Yes it has (http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf). I posted a link above. You lost.

Sorry, but state rulings have no bearing on federal law! YOU LOSE!

Besides, Ankeny claims Wong Kim Ark made Wong a Natural Born Citizen and WKA never mentions that.

And secondly, Justice Horace Gray, who gave the opinion in WKA was illegal because he was appointed by Chester Arthur, the Original usurper!

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 09:59 AM

My state, clearly has in the law that you must be a natural born citizen and I have the proof that he isn't, straight from the Library of Congress. If they look at my facts, there's no way I can lose!

You will lose, as precedent and history has shown already. Just a factual item that demonstrates that most reasonable Americans are not bothered by this at all. Just about the only one you could bother are reasonable Republicans that do get dismayed to see birthers still active and in bed with them.

So keep up the good work! :)

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:00 AM

Serious question: have you ever been prescribed psychoactive medication? Have you stopped taking it? If so, why?

NO, but I have been asked to do research for a lot of well known news websites, because I GET the facts and have great sources!

Frank

12-22-2011, 10:01 AM

And secondly, Justice Horace Gray, who gave the opinion in WKA was illegal because he was appointed by Chester Arthur, the Original usurper!
This is fun!

Even if you take out Gray's vote, it's still a 5-2 majority.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:02 AM

From the site rules:

You're welcome to debate this ridiculous point here - other people have tried - but if you just want to shout at people, ask them to sign petitions, and disregard what they're saying, then you're not going to last very long here.

Spam? Where did I post spam?

The are disregarding what I am saying, when I have the facts and proof behind them!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 10:03 AM

Sorry, but this case has never been heard. Once it is heard on the merits, the truth will come out and you all will be proven wrong. That's why you/Obama are afraid to let a case move onto the merits...cause he will LOSE!
I'm not afraid. People have been attempting to prove Obama isn't a citizen for at least three years. It's failed because he's a citizen.

ONE state in 50 WILL look at the facts.
Nope: in the legal system, you don't win on volume. They're going to be dismissed just like all the previous ones. What Trumbull said 150 years ago is not as important as the body of legal precedent that has accumulated, and that precedent makes it very clear that Obama is a citizen. He was born in the U.S. (any other view is ludicrous) and his mother was a citizen. The Arthur argument is even more ridiculous. I'm going to guess you probably think income taxes are also unconstitutional - that's another argument that people keep insisting is going to hold up in court one of these days because it's so obvious to them that they're right, but the courts have never agreed and never will. You don't get to define the law based on loopholes you claim to have found in 150-year-old documents. Precedent also counts and it can't be ignored that way.

BobLibDem

12-22-2011, 10:04 AM

Sorry, but state rulings have no bearing on federal law! YOU LOSE!

Besides, Ankeny claims Wong Kim Ark made Wong a Natural Born Citizen and WKA never mentions that.

And secondly, Justice Horace Gray, who gave the opinion in WKA was illegal because he was appointed by Chester Arthur, the Original usurper!

Arthur was born in Vermont and was therefore a natural born citizen. Good luck in getting any court to ignore any opinion written by Justice Horace Gray. If Gray didn't write the opinion, someone else would have in that 6-2 decision.

Frank

12-22-2011, 10:04 AM

Spam? Where did I post spam?
It was a "message primarily intended to promote a cause..."

I think it's obvious that we're not ignoring you. We're just asking questions.

Lobohan

12-22-2011, 10:04 AM

...when I have the facts and proof behind them!Such as?

Marley23

12-22-2011, 10:08 AM

Spam? Where did I post spam?
The relevant phrase was "messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity." It's not spam in the sense of selling v1agra, but it's encouraging people to go to a site and join a campaign. We want people on this site to debate, not just try to enlist other people.

Little Nemo

12-22-2011, 10:11 AM

I know, the truth hurtsBut you seem to be feeling no pain.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 10:11 AM

Sorry, but state rulings have no bearing on federal law! YOU LOSE!
Sure they do. State courts do not have limited jurisdiction; they may consider matters pertaining to federal law.

Anyway, since your upcoming proceeding is a challenge to a state's electoral procedure, won't you be appearing in state court? You don't have a federal question to raise.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:13 AM

You will lose, as precedent and history has shown already. Just a factual item that demonstrates that most reasonable Americans are not bothered by this at all. Just about the only one you could bother are reasonable Republicans that do get dismayed to see birthers still active and in bed with them.

So keep up the good work! :)

Yes, precedent has been set, in Supreme Court Cases:

(1) The Venus, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814): Chief Justice John Marshall, concurring and dissenting for other reasons, cites Vattel and provides his definition of natural born citizens and said: “Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says ‘The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.’”

(2) Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830): same Vattelian definition without citing Vattel, stated: “If she was not of age, then she might well be deemed under the circumstances of this case to hold the citizenship of her father, for children born in a country, continuing while under age in the family of the father, partake of his national character as a citizen of that country.”

(3) Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167-68 (1875): Even though the Fourteenth Amendment had already been passed, Minor did not rely upon that amendment to define either a “natural born Citizen” or a “citizen.” Rather, it applied the American “common-law” definition of those terms. Providing Vattel’s law of nations definition of a “natural-born citizen,” but without citing Vattel, and not in any way referring to the English common law, it laid down the definition of a “natural-born citizen” as follows:

“The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction, are themselves citizens.” Id., at 167-68.

(4) United States v. Ward, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D.Cal. 1890) (same Vattelian definition and cites Vattel): “At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.”

Lynn Bodoni

12-22-2011, 10:13 AM

Mods, can we keep the troll? Please? You have to feed it, water it, clean up its messes, and walk it at least twice a day, or it goes to the farm.

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 10:14 AM

NO, but I have been asked to do research for a lot of well known news websites, because I GET the facts and have great sources!

Now that is even more fun to me! It has been a fascinating item to me that conspiracy theorists are usually clever enough to recognize that their sources will be laughed up over here, so while they claim to point at evidence in reality they do not point at where the spin and the real source of their "information" comes from.

So, who are your sources? And no, pointing out at "evidence" that was already looked at and deemed to be irrelevant even in the courts is not a source, who is the main source that you have that is still pushing the peculiar interpretation of your cites so far?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:16 AM

I'm not afraid. People have been attempting to prove Obama isn't a citizen for at least three years. It's failed because he's a citizen.

But you need to be a Natural Born Citizen, not just a citizen, unless Obama was alive when the Constitution was adopted!

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 10:17 AM

Yes, precedent has been set, in Supreme Court Cases:

(1) The Venus, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814): Chief Justice John Marshall, concurring and dissenting for other reasons, cites Vattel and provides his definition of natural born citizens and said: “Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says ‘The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.’”

(2) Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830): same Vattelian definition without citing Vattel, stated: “If she was not of age, then she might well be deemed under the circumstances of this case to hold the citizenship of her father, for children born in a country, continuing while under age in the family of the father, partake of his national character as a citizen of that country.”

(3) Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167-68 (1875): Even though the Fourteenth Amendment had already been passed, Minor did not rely upon that amendment to define either a “natural born Citizen” or a “citizen.” Rather, it applied the American “common-law” definition of those terms. Providing Vattel’s law of nations definition of a “natural-born citizen,” but without citing Vattel, and not in any way referring to the English common law, it laid down the definition of a “natural-born citizen” as follows:

“The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction, are themselves citizens.” Id., at 167-68.

(4) United States v. Ward, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D.Cal. 1890) (same Vattelian definition and cites Vattel): “At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.”
And the courts already saw that and deemed those precedents not applicable to Obama, the problem here is that you do not know what a moot point is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32180625/ns/politics-white_house/t/hawaii-reasserts-obama-natural-born-citizen/

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:18 AM

Arthur was born in Vermont and was therefore a natural born citizen. Good luck in getting any court to ignore any opinion written by Justice Horace Gray. If Gray didn't write the opinion, someone else would have in that 6-2 decision.

Arthur's Father was not a citizen when Arthur was born, same as Obama, so Arthur was not a Natural Born Citizen!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:19 AM

Such as?

The video is posted on page 2. I am not allowed to post it here says the moderator.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 10:20 AM

But you need to be a Natural Born Citizen, not just a citizen, unless Obama was alive when the Constitution was adopted!
He's also a natural born citizen according to the body of law that exists. People have been challenging both points for years, and they've all failed. I expect a bunch of other people have already tried your argument and had it tossed out by courts who considered it a ridiculous waste of their time.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:21 AM

But you seem to be feeling no pain.

That's because the truth is on my side! The truth only hurts those that are on the wrong side of it!

Tom Scud

12-22-2011, 10:22 AM

That isn't too much different from what he did. Holy fuck, I want my 21 minutes back. Chester Fucking Arthur wasn't a citizen? As far as I can tell, the only people born here who would be excluded from citizenship are children of diplomats and royalty and such, who aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the US (which is I believe why they can't get parking tickets).

Also children born to soldiers of an occupying army. Not a pressing concern at the moment.

Onomatopoeia

12-22-2011, 10:23 AM

NO, but I have been asked to do research for a lot of well known news websites, because I GET the facts and have great sources!Welcome to The Straight Dope, KenyanBornObama. I hope you find your time here enlightening.

For your reference, a few points if I may.

1. There are a number of attorneys who are members of this board, of all political stripes, a few who are quite conservative politically, all of whom, I imagine, would say your pursuit is a fool's errand.

2. Contrary to your assertion here, your specific issue has been dismissed by the courts in the past.

3. If you want to have a conversation, engage us. Using pejoratives like 'Obot' is not only not cute, or funny, but serves to diminish our assessment of your worthiness as a debater and someone to take seriously.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:24 AM

Sure they do. State courts do not have limited jurisdiction; they may consider matters pertaining to federal law.

Anyway, since your upcoming proceeding is a challenge to a state's electoral procedure, won't you be appearing in state court? You don't have a federal question to raise.

To change Art 2, Section 1, you need to amend the Constitution and it has never been amended, so NO, they have no jurisdiction!

States are the ones that vet candidates to be on the ballot, if they say he is ineligible, he is removed from the ballot and the nation can not vote for him!

Once one states removes him, the dominos will fall!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 10:25 AM

To change Art 2, Section 1, you need to amend the Constitution and it has never been amended, so NO, they have no jurisdiction!
Like I said earlier, you don't get to change the law by saying you found a loophole that nobody has noticed for 200 years. It doesn't work that way.

Once one states removes him, the dominos will fall!
He's not going to be removed from any ballots. This is a matter of settled law.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:26 AM

So, who are your sources? And no, pointing out at "evidence" that was already looked at and deemed to be irrelevant even in the courts is not a source, who is the main source that you have that is still pushing the peculiar interpretation of your cites so far?

The Library of Congress is my source!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:27 AM

And the courts already saw that and deemed those precedents not applicable to Obama, the problem here is that you do not know what a moot point is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32180625/ns/politics-white_house/t/hawaii-reasserts-obama-natural-born-citizen/

WHAT courts saw that and deemed them not applicable, please show me!

Lobohan

12-22-2011, 10:27 AM

The video is posted on page 2. I am not allowed to post it here says the moderator.Summarize the video, please. If you understand the arguments it makes you should be able to communicate them to me.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 10:28 AM

To change Art 2, Section 1, you need to amend the Constitution and it has never been amended, so NO, they have no jurisdiction!

States are the ones that vet candidates to be on the ballot, if they say he is ineligible, he is removed from the ballot and the nation can not vote for him!

Once one states removes him, the dominos will fall!
You just made a point and then refuted it in the same post. Don't think I've ever seen that done before.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:28 AM

He's also a natural born citizen according to the body of law that exists. People have been challenging both points for years, and they've all failed. I expect a bunch of other people have already tried your argument and had it tossed out by courts who considered it a ridiculous waste of their time.

What law is that, can you show me?

Marley23

12-22-2011, 10:31 AM

What law is that, can you show me?
I think I'd start here. (http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=urbanlegends&cdn=newsissues&tm=13&gps=390_431_1276_823&f=00&su=p284.12.336.ip_p504.1.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&st=10&zu=http%3A//voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/08/supreme_court_declines_to_hear.html)

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:33 AM

Welcome to The Straight Dope, KenyanBornObama. I hope you find your time here enlightening.

For your reference, a few points if I may.

1. There are a number of attorneys who are members of this board, of all political stripes, a few who are quite conservative politically, all of whom, I imagine, would say your pursuit is a fool's errand.

2. Contrary to your assertion here, your specific issue has been dismissed by the courts in the past.

3. If you want to have a conversation, engage us. Using pejoratives like 'Obot' is not only not cute, or funny, but serves to diminish our assessment of your worthiness as a debater and someone to take seriously.

Thanks, I've already been warned, it's in the thread and I apologized.

Yes, I have a number of attorneys as well, that I email with on a daily basis and a few Constitutional Experts that also know the truth, we are doing everything we can to get the truth out! Thanks for allowing a fair debate here and not censoring my facts!

My issue has not been heard by the courts yet, but we are working on it!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 10:35 AM

Like I said earlier, you don't get to change the law by saying you found a loophole that nobody has noticed for 200 years. It doesn't work that way.

He's not going to be removed from any ballots. This is a matter of settled law.

Everyone has a right to dream!

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 10:36 AM

The Library of Congress is my source!

Nope, I'm asking for the group or individual that is telling you what spin to apply to the library of congress, it is clear that your real and true sources are misleading you on what it really does say, and it does say that Obama has the right to be president, as all branches of government have declared so also.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 10:37 AM

You may wish to report those attorneys to your state bar association for failing to provide appropriate client counseling services.

Jack Batty

12-22-2011, 10:37 AM

Marley23

12-22-2011, 10:42 AM

Everyone has a right to dream!
I'm sorry to crush your dream.

OK, that's a lie. I'm not sorry. Even if we put aside the race issue (because there are some nasty racists holding this opinion), the view that Obama isn't a citizen is a sad and desperate delusion. If you think the guy is such a bad president, by all means vote against him. This idea of laypeople finding loopholes in the Constitution and arguing about centuries-old legal decisions is absurd. It's bullshit on the level of The Protocols of The Elders of Zion or The Da Vinci Code or Lizard People or Secret Messages in the Denver Airport. It takes time away from serious issues in the court system and causes people to do some really ridiculous nonsense. The sad part is that after you lose, you probably won't get over it - you'll either file another petition or insist that the court is in on the plot and overstepped its authority or something like that. I hope you're able to get on with your life, because some people never do. Orly Taitz isn't one of them because she's probably a money hungry charlatan more than an ideologue.

Incidentally, you do think the president was really born in Kenya, right?

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 10:57 AM

You'd better get reading, GIGObuster; you have something like 22 million books to get through to find his sources.

Well, that would be like the scholar's version of a Google Vomit. :)

You jest, but IMHO when someone makes points that already have been seen and claims the outcome will be different or the evidence will soon overturn the precedent and decisions already made by all branches of the government (Not only the courts agree that Obama has the right to be president, in the end the legislative and the executive branches already said he has the right. ) I do not care how much they claim that they got their idea on their own, by this time it is clear they got it from someone else and it is becoming more clear that the poster here is clever enough to know his real sources will be laughed at.

This is like claiming that there are alien ships on the moon and declaring that schools will teach all future generations that incredible fact. Yes, one poster once said 10 years ago to us that this change would take place 10 years into the future, guess what happened?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:07 AM

Summarize the video, please. If you understand the arguments it makes you should be able to communicate them to me.

In a nutshell, my video says:

On January 5, 1866, the Civil Rights Act was authored and brought up in the Senate by Senators Lyman Trumbull and Jacob Howard. The bill failed to pass. On January 11th, 1866, Jacob Howard submitted an amendment to the Civil RIghts Act which added:

"That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States"

The bill then passed after the amendment was added and was sent to the House and passed along with Trumbull's amendment! Honorable John Bingham, Father of the 14th amendment, is on record saying:

"I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of PARENTS NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANY FOREIGN SOVEREIGNTY is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN"

The 14th amendment was then worked up by John Bingham to make the Civil Rights Act constitutional, which passed the House, but failed in the Senate, until Trumbull and Howard made an amendment adding in "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

Others argued that they wanted to know what "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" meant and Trumbull replies saying: "The provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANYBODY ELSE. That is what it means."

The bill passed the House and Senate and went to President Johnson who vetoed it. The bill went back to Congress and they passed it over the President's Veto!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:08 AM

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:09 AM

You just made a point and then refuted it in the same post. Don't think I've ever seen that done before.

No, I didn't!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:10 AM

I think I'd start here. (http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=urbanlegends&cdn=newsissues&tm=13&gps=390_431_1276_823&f=00&su=p284.12.336.ip_p504.1.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&st=10&zu=http%3A//voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/08/supreme_court_declines_to_hear.html)

AHHH, a link to NOWHERE! NICE!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:12 AM

Nope, I'm asking for the group or individual that is telling you what spin to apply to the library of congress, it is clear that your real and true sources are misleading you on what it really does say, and it does say that Obama has the right to be president, as all branches of government have declared so also.

How do you know, when you haven't even looked at the video or sources? LOLOL, FUNNY!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:18 AM

I'm sorry to crush your dream.

OK, that's a lie. I'm not sorry. Even if we put aside the race issue (because there are some nasty racists holding this opinion), the view that Obama isn't a citizen is a sad and desperate delusion.

Until you look at the video and SEE the facts, there is no sense debating with you. I have the facts and you don't and others can SEE that. Watch the videos and SEE my sources and original documents and then maybe I will listen to your assumptions!

Incidentally, you do think the president was really born in Kenya, right?

YES, I do and my facts prove that as well!

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 11:19 AM

How do you know, when you haven't even looked at the video or sources? LOLOL, FUNNY!

Nah, I already know thanks to other respected posters, what we do know is that you skipped on purpose the MSNBC cite I brought that showed the legislative and the executive (Congress voting declaring that Obama was born in Hawai and the governor of Hawai) saying the Obama has the right to be president.

This is evidence that you are not really capable of judging who is a good source and who is a bad one.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 11:21 AM

Loophole, what loophole is that? The Library of Congress?
You're very bad at these sarcastic rhetorical questions. I am not sure why you are even bothering to ask because you've already explained what your loophole is: the phrasing used by Trumbull.

AHHH, a link to NOWHERE! NICE!
The link works, but maybe you're having a firewall issue. Here's a more direct link. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/08/supreme_court_declines_to_hear.html) In any case, it's a link to a Washington Post article from December 2008. It begins this way:

The Supreme Court this morning unceremoniously declined to hear an emergency appeal from a man who claimed President-elect Barack Obama is not qualified for the presidency because he is not a "natural-born" citizen.

The court without comment declined to hear "Donofrio v. Wells," a suit that had attempted to keep Obama off the New Jersey ballot. Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick had claimed Obama had dual nationality at birth, because of his Kansas-born mother and his Kenyan-born father, who was a British subject at the time. This seems to be the exact same argument you're making, just with a slightly different basis.

Until you look at the video and SEE the facts, there is no sense debating with you.
I don't need to see your video.

YES, I do and my facts prove that as well!
And yet you're relying on this 14th amendment issue. I guess this reflects the fact that you realize most people think the theory is silly. Which it is. It's not even a legalistic argument. It's a theory that nobody should believe because it's ridiculous on its face.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 11:23 AM

No, I didn't!
Of course you did. You claimed that state courts have no jurisdiction then admitted that your claim was brought in state court.

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 11:25 AM

AHHH, a link to NOWHERE! NICE!

One just needs to look at the link that was broken to see that is referring to the supreme court refusing to even hear the previous challenge based on Birther nonsense:

http://www.legalnewsline.com/news/217841-supreme-court-declines-to-hear-obama-citizenship-challenge

Not hard to figure out, but as pointed out before, you are not really good at finding good information.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:25 AM

Nah, I already know thanks to other respected posters, what we do know is that you skipped on purpose the MSNBC cite I brought that showed the legislative and the executive (Congress voting declaring that Obama was born in Hawai and the governor of Hawai) saying the Obama has the right to be president.

This is evidence that you are not really capable of judging who is a good source and who is a bad one.

Did you see the resolution Obama and Hillary signed that proves McCain is a Natural Born Citizen? It clearly states:
"Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:27 AM

You're very bad at these sarcastic rhetorical questions. I am not sure why you are even bothering to ask because you've already explained what your loophole is: the phrasing used by Trumbull.

The link works, but maybe you're having a firewall issue. Here's a more direct link. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/08/supreme_court_declines_to_hear.html) In any case, it's a link to a Washington Post article from December 2008. It begins this way:

This seems to be the exact same argument you're making, just with a slightly different basis.

I don't need to see your video.

And yet you're relying on this 14th amendment issue. I guess this reflects the fact that you realize most people think the theory is silly. Which it is. It's not even a legalistic argument. It's a theory that nobody should believe because it's ridiculous on its face.

WOMP WOMP WOMP

Keep your head in the sand, that's your problem!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 11:29 AM

WOMP WOMP WOMP

Keep your head in the sand, that's your problem!
Is that supposed to be the sound of me sticking my head in the sand? Why does sand make a WOMP sound? I'd expect more of a scratchy sound as I twisted my head around to burrow it down there.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 11:31 AM

Did you see the resolution Obama and Hillary signed that proves McCain is a Natural Born Citizen?
If a Congressional resolution "proves" citizenship, then Congress' certification of the electoral college votes proves that Obama is eligible to be President.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:31 AM

Of course you did. You claimed that state courts have no jurisdiction then admitted that your claim was brought in state court.

Until the Congress makes an amendment to the Constitution, it doesn't matter what a state CASE says what a Natural Born Citizen is! However, on a totally different issue of Election Law, they states are the ones who vet a candidate to be on the ballot. All they need to do is look at the law and the Library of Congress sources that I supply which proves what a Natural Born Citizen is and then he will not be allowed on the ballot.

No messing with Constitutional amendments!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:32 AM

Is that supposed to be the sound of me sticking my head in the sand? Why does sand make a WOMP sound? I'd expect more of a scratchy sound as I twisted my head around to burrow it down there.

NO, that's the Charlie Brown teacher!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 11:33 AM

The states all determined that Obama was eligible in 2008. Why would 2012 be different? Do you think they all forgot about the 14th amendment in 2008?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:34 AM

If a Congressional resolution "proves" citizenship, then Congress' certification of the electoral college votes proves that Obama is eligible to be President.

Not when Nancy Pelosi has to forge Obama's eligibility papers in Hawaii...why did she do that and remove the Constitutional Clause from the form?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 11:36 AM

The states all determined that Obama was eligible in 2008. Why would 2012 be different? Do you think they all forgot about the 14th amendment in 2008?

NOT Hawaii. Pelosi's changed the wording and took out the constitutional clause, so Hawaii did NOT say he was eligible!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 11:36 AM

NO, that's the Charlie Brown teacher!
And she stuck her head in the sand?

I think most people represent her voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUyLwXhqlWU) as "Wah wah wah," since the sound was made by a muted trombone. WOMP sounds more like a collision.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 11:38 AM

Not when Nancy Pelosi has to forge Obama's eligibility papers in Hawaii...why did she do that and remove the Constitutional Clause from the form?
What does Pelosi have to do with this? When did she become a master forger.

NOT Hawaii. Pelosi's changed the wording and took out the constitutional clause, so Hawaii did NOT say he was eligible!
Obama was on the ballot in Hawaii both in the primaries and the general election.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 11:45 AM

Not when Nancy Pelosi has to forge Obama's eligibility papers in Hawaii...why did she do that and remove the Constitutional Clause from the form?
You can substantiate this apparently absurd claim, right?
Until the Congress makes an amendment to the Constitution, it doesn't matter what a state CASE says what a Natural Born Citizen is! However, on a totally different issue of Election Law, they states are the ones who vet a candidate to be on the ballot. All they need to do is look at the law and the Library of Congress sources that I supply which proves what a Natural Born Citizen is and then he will not be allowed on the ballot.
The state court has to apply the federal law to the circumstances.

When you go to court, you will be asking them to apply a federal law in order to determine whether Obama is eligible to appear on the state's ballot. In order to do that, the state court will have to determine for itself whether Obama is a natural born citizen under federal law.

I think what you mean is that the decision of an Indiana court is not controlling in another state's courts, and you are correct. However, the court of your state will apply the same reasoning and come to the same conclusion.

Ichbin Dubist

12-22-2011, 11:59 AM

The SAD thing is, is that you are SERIOUS!

OBOTS are always SERIOUS. We do not UNDERSTAND what you humans call SADNESS. PLEASE explain.

GIGObuster

12-22-2011, 12:00 PM

Did you see the resolution Obama and Hillary signed that proves McCain is a Natural Born Citizen? It clearly states:
"Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

And everybody understood that that graceful stomping of any conspiracy ideas against McCain were a moot point, same with the ones against Obama as congress voted to declare he had the right to be president and also the Governor, as representing the executive side, saying so too.

BrainGlutton

12-22-2011, 12:01 PM

That's because the BC is a FORGERY. Show me one EXPERT that says it's NOT a forgery! I can show you MANY that say it's a FORGERY!

Waitiminnit. I thought your whole argument here was that Obama is not a natural-born citizen for constitutional purposes just because his father was not a U.S. citizen. An argument that, being based on some rather idiosyncratic interpretations (http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp) of constitutional law, stands or falls on that basis, and requires no factual dispute of the authenticity or contents of Obama's birth certificate. Why are you upping the stakes now?

Jack Batty

12-22-2011, 12:03 PM

BrainGlutton, perhaps you missed the post where she also claims to have proof that Obama was born in Kenya.

Personally, I think she's just working up to 'he's a lizard-people.'

BrainGlutton

12-22-2011, 12:07 PM

Euphonious Polemic

12-22-2011, 12:46 PM

KenyanBornObama, while you may THINK you have the proof you need from the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS, you are sadly mistaken.

My COLLEAGUES have been there, and have SEEN the proof that you THINK you have. They have also FOUND the evidence that was HIDDEN by moving it to another area of the STACKS, behind the books on the family Diplodactylidae (clever!).

This new EVIDENCE clearly shows that Obama was indeed born in the United States, but reveals the CONSPIRACY to show otherwise. Destruction of EVIDENCE, re-writing HISTORY and posting on RANDOM Message boards are just a few of the methods that these people use to put forward the FALSE THEORY about Obama's birth.

Why do they do this you ask? It will be REVEALED in court in January. SEE YOU THERE!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 12:51 PM

What does Pelosi have to do with this? When did she become a master forger.

Pelosi was the Leader at the time and had to send out the certification papers and on the Hawaii certification, she left the Constitutional phrase but removed it from the form that went to the other 49 states! Now why would Nancy do this?

Obama was on the ballot in Hawaii both in the primaries and the general election.

Yea, illegally!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 12:53 PM

You can substantiate this apparently absurd claim, right?

For Real? It's ALL OVER the internet already, has been for years!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 12:55 PM

OBOTS are always SERIOUS. We do not UNDERSTAND what you humans call SADNESS. PLEASE explain.

I couldn't tell ya...You'll hafta ask Obama when he's sittin behind bars...

Marley23

12-22-2011, 12:57 PM

Pelosi was the Leader at the time
She was the Speaker of the House, not the Leader of the Birth Certificate Department.

she left the Constitutional phrase but removed it from the form that went to the other 49 states! Now why would Nancy do this?
My first guess is that she didn't because it sounds like yet another obvious falsehood. I don't suppose you have a credible citation, do you?

Yea, illegally!
That doesn't answer my question. Just for fun, here's an extensive list of failed challenges to Obama's eligibility and citizenship. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation)

Euphonious Polemic

12-22-2011, 12:59 PM

My group is ONTO YOU, and we KNOW why and how you are manipulating the "evidence".

We also KNOW who (or what!) is backing you and the REASONS for doing so. My PROOF is currently locked in my lawyer's SAFE, with instructions to release it to the media upon my death, so DON"T be getting any ideas like you did with those others (and you know who I mean)

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 12:59 PM

Waitiminnit. I thought your whole argument here was that Obama is not a natural-born citizen for constitutional purposes just because his father was not a U.S. citizen. An argument that, being based on some rather idiosyncratic interpretations (http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp) of constitutional law, stands or falls on that basis, and requires no factual dispute of the authenticity or contents of Obama's birth certificate. Why are you upping the stakes now?
Sorry, but diversion tactics don't work on me!

The BC is irrelevant whether it's a forgery or not. You don't need a BC to tell if someone is a natural born citizen, when you already know that the father was never a citizen!

The only reason where the BC is relevant is to prove that Obama had it forged, which will add more time to his sentence!

AndrewL

12-22-2011, 01:00 PM

For Real? It's ALL OVER the internet already, has been for years!

I can't wait for you to present that argument in court.

"Your honor, I call the Internet as exhibit A"

Marley23

12-22-2011, 01:00 PM

The only reason where the BC is relevant is to prove that Obama had it forged, which will add more time to his sentence!
What law do you believe he's broken?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:05 PM

BrainGlutton, perhaps you missed the post where she also claims to have proof that Obama was born in Kenya.

Personally, I think she's just working up to 'he's a lizard-people.'

Well, are all these people lying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHzFIvCy_iQ

Is the Kenyan Parliament lying?
Is the Kenyan Ambassador to the US lying?
Is Michelle Obama lying?
Is Obama's grandmother lying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI6TG2bJnvQ

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 01:06 PM

For Real? It's ALL OVER the internet already, has been for years!
So has all kinds of other bullshit like birther claims generally. Anyway, if it's all over the internet, it won't trouble you to provide a link to a reputable source.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:07 PM

KenyanBornObama, while you may THINK you have the proof you need from the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS, you are sadly mistaken.

Nope, you are!

Watch, you'll see in the next few months!

davidm

12-22-2011, 01:10 PM

What law do you believe he's broken?
Occupying the White House while black.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:12 PM

What law do you believe he's broken?

1.Tax Fraud with the deal he made with Resko about his Chicago house, which Obama does NOT own!

2. Forgery, several times with the BC's he put out.

3. Soc Sec Fraud, using a SSN that was issued to someone in 1890.

4. Election Fraud for signing that he is elegible to be on the ballot in MANY states when he knows he isn't.

Shall I go on?

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 01:12 PM

Nope, you are!

Watch, you'll see in the next few months!
The rest of the world has already seen. Think about this seriously for a minute. Damn near half the country wants Obama out of office. If there was any plausibility to your Obama-isn't-a-citizen religion, don't you think they'd have bought in wholesale?

Marley23

12-22-2011, 01:12 PM

Well, are all these people lying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHzFIvCy_iQ
No, they're incorrect. Newspapers sometimes print stuff that is incorrect, especially about foreign countries. I appreciate your use of African-sounding drum music, though. That doesn't come across as a racial taunt at all.

Is the Kenyan Parliament lying?
Is the Kenyan Ambassador to the US lying?
Is Michelle Obama lying?
Is Obama's grandmother lying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI6TG2bJnvQ
See, this is where all conspiracy theories fall apart. A bunch of very powerful people have pulled off some kind of elaborate and complex fraud and they've done it almost perfectly, but they keep accidentally admitting the truth in public and printing it over and over again in newspapers. (And newspapers and public statements are reliable, but birth certificates are untrustworthy.) If Michelle Obama were covering up the fact that her husband was born in Kenya, she wouldn't go around saying it in public. (Nevermind that she's obviously saying that Kenya is where the Obama family is from.) Neither would the other conspirators. It doesn't make any sense to assume people are behaving this way. You don't keep something a secret by telling millions of people.

Euphonious Polemic

12-22-2011, 01:14 PM

Nope, you are!

Watch, you'll see in the next few months!

Oh, I think you'll find that those who have been paid off to MANIPULATE the evidence for you are not as RELIABLE as you might think.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:14 PM

She was the Speaker of the House, not the Leader of the Birth Certificate Department.

My first guess is that she didn't because it sounds like yet another obvious falsehood. I don't suppose you have a credible citation, do you?

That doesn't answer my question. Just for fun, here's an extensive list of failed challenges to Obama's eligibility and citizenship. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation)

Sorry, but you can't fail until the case is heard on the merits, why is Obama so afraid to get to the merits of the case? Why is he spending millions to hide this and to keep it from going to court on the merits? Is he afraid of something?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:15 PM

Occupying the White House while black.

I wish Cain (A REAL Black man) would have made it to the White House!

I LOVE Herman Cain and he too knows Obama is illegal!

Exapno Mapcase

12-22-2011, 01:19 PM

Watch, you'll see in the next few months!

I hope so. I hope you take this to the courts. Take it to the courts of all 50 states. Appeal it up through the state and federal court systems. I don't care if it takes every last penny you and and your team of attorneys have. In fact, I encourage that. Mortgage your houses, sell your furniture, put your children to work. Do it all. Spend until there's nothing left for you to spend. Ask all those who believe as you do to contribute their all as well. Nothing less is acceptable.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 01:19 PM

Sorry, but you can't fail until the case is heard on the merits, why is Obama so afraid to get to the merits of the case? Why is he spending millions to hide this and to keep it from going to court on the merits? Is he afraid of something?
Again, here's a list of lawsuits related to Obama's eligibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation). Are you really claiming to be unaware of this? Obama has not spent millions of dollars fighting these lawsuits - that's also been debunked.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:22 PM

A bunch of very powerful people have pulled off some kind of elaborate and complex fraud and they've done it almost perfectly...

NOW you're getting it!

And yes, not perfectly...although they were able to wipe several Supreme Court Cases off the internet which prove what Natural Born Citizen is, they were not able to erase the Congressional debates leading up to the adoption of the 14th amendment...

So, they have pulled off nothing and we will stop the Usurper in the White House before the 2012 election, mark my words!

BrainGlutton

12-22-2011, 01:24 PM

3. Soc Sec Fraud, using a SSN that was issued to someone in 1890.

The Social Security Act was not passed until 1935.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:25 PM

Again, here's a list of lawsuits related to Obama's eligibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation). Are you really claiming to be unaware of this? Obama has not spent millions of dollars fighting these lawsuits - that's also been debunked.

I have been following this for over 3 years, of course of know of the dozens and dozens of cases that have been dismissed 100% on technicalities. Orly and I are very close and email on a daily basis. None have been heard on the merits. Why are you so afraid of a case on the merits?

jayjay

12-22-2011, 01:26 PM

Why are you people even arguing with hir?

YogSosoth

12-22-2011, 01:27 PM

NOW you're getting it!

And yes, not perfectly...although they were able to wipe several Supreme Court Cases off the internet which prove what Natural Born Citizen is, they were not able to erase the Congressional debates leading up to the adoption of the 14th amendment...

So, they have pulled off nothing and we will stop the Usurper in the White House before the 2012 election, mark my words!

Joe Biden? He's a lovable goof, what do you have against him?

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:28 PM

The Social Security Act was not passed until 1935.

The person that originally had the number was born in 1890, who knows WHEN he was given the number, but when he applied for it, it was added to record of when he was born in 1890. The 1890 note is still on the record even though obama took over the number.

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:29 PM

Why are you people even arguing with hir?

Because they have to fill the board up, so it pushes back my facts to were others can't see them!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:30 PM

Joe Biden? He's a lovable goof, what do you have against him?

Uh Yea, and the Taliban is our FRIEND!

Tell me another one!

KenyanBornObama

12-22-2011, 01:32 PM

The Straight Dope, fits very nicely!

Marley23

12-22-2011, 01:42 PM

NOW you're getting it!
Except they keep accidentally telling everybody about it, according to you. Brilliant plotting.

So, they have pulled off nothing and we will stop the Usurper in the White House before the 2012 election, mark my words!
You won't. And if your arguing style in court is as bad as what I'm seeing here, it's going to be a short hearing.

I have been following this for over 3 years, of course of know of the dozens and dozens of cases that have been dismissed 100% on technicalities.
No, they haven't. Many were dismissed because the plaintiffs didn't have standing - and I wouldn't be surprised if you don't have it either - but not all of them. The Donofrio case was appealed all the way to the Supreme Court. Donofrio lost, and his argument appears to be very similar to yours: he said Obama wasn't a natural born citizen because his father would've also had British citizenship. Wrotnowski also made that argument and was shot down. Ankeny's case also looks extremely similar to yours. Other posters have already made reference to this and noted that the court made its decision based on Wong Kim Ark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Kim_Ark). I think the 9th Circuit rejected Barnett's case today, but I'm not positive.

Orly and I are very close and email on a daily basis. None have been heard on the merits.
This is wrong. But Orly Taitz is the Washington Generals of the birther movement, so I would not be surprised if she steered you wrong. I hope she's not your dentist.

Why are you so afraid of a case on the merits?
This is annoying and deeply obnoxious. Nobody has expressed any fear. Everybody has said they're confident you will lose because many other people have done what you're doing and also lost.

No doubt you're aware , if you are actually friends with the Washington Generals of the birther movement.
Why do you keep saying people are afraid? You're going to have your hearing and you're going to lose like all these other people did. Many of them didn't have standing and you probably won't either.

Inner Stickler

12-22-2011, 01:42 PM

With a name like KenyanBornObama, you know they're not a one-trick pony with an axe to grind. I am excited to see what other witticisms and probing insights they'll have in matters of science, philosophy, and literary criticism.

Marley23

12-22-2011, 01:45 PM

Because they have to fill the board up, so it pushes back my facts to were others can't see them!
That's the opposite of how message boards work: responding to a topic makes it more visible. But do go on.

Really Not All That Bright

12-22-2011, 01:45 PM

Sorry, but you can't fail until the case is heard on the merits, why is Obama so afraid to get to the merits of the case? Why is he spending millions to hide this and to keep it from going to court on the merits? Is he afraid of something?
Nobody is spending any money to keep the case from being heard on its "merits". I've already provided you with the Indiana decision which does include consideration of the merits and you have handwaved it away.

Standing and jurisdiction must be considered before anything else. If the plaintiff has no standing or the court does not have jurisdiction, it has no business rendering an opinion. That's why nobody bothers to rule on the merits- because they can't (or shouldn't, at least).