The Ankh river in Ankh-Morpork (Discworld)

[OpalCat]

Just curious on opinions. My son is reading the most recent Discworld book and he read a few sentences to me from it, about the Ankh river, which got me to thinking.

The Ankh is consistently referred to as being extremely polluted, to the point where it's described repeatedly as barely qualifying as a liquid. I'm pretty sure there are places which imply one might be able to walk on it, and things like that.

I'm curious as to how much of that is hyperbole and how much of that is Terry Pratchett creating a river that is actually so polluted that it is literally almost not liquid anymore. I can't decide. I've always assumed it was mostly hyperbole, but then, this is a world where light spills across the countryside at a visible (i.e. non-light-speed) rate. What do you think? What is the actual consistency of the river Ankh?

[Alessan]

I think it consists of whatever is funny at the time.

[Broomstick]

I wish to mention the real world's closest analogue to the Ankh, the South Fork of the Chicago River's South Branch, formerly known as Bubbly Creek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubbly_Creek) because, well, the gasses of decomposition used to cause it to bubble. And sometimes catch fire. And in places it was solid enough for chickens to walk across it.

It's a lot cleaner these days, but I still wouldn't want to fall in it. Or on it.

But yes, the consistency of the Ankh is directly related to the density required to make the story funny.

[Yllaria]

Originally Posted by PTerry
The river Ankh is probably the only river in the universe on which the investigators can chalk the outline of the corpse.

That's my favorite, from Men at Arms. And if the water was really that stiff, boats wouldn't be able to drag through it.

[The Tooth]

I always liked "a river so muddy it looks as if it's flowing upside-down", and how any fish caught from the Ankh will explode if exposed to fresh water. Or how small bushes grow on it in summer.

[ftg]

I thought part of the thickness was also due to silt being washed down. The pollutants would act as "binders" with the silt to gel it up.

My issue with the firmness is the flow rate. It is a major river and once it starts becoming firm, how can it flow fast enough to avoid a major backup? Even a strong below surface current would tear away any surface scum.

But like the issues of the speed of light, physics on Discworld don't obey any inconvenient laws.

[One And Only Wanderers]

Not to mention where a city the size of Ankh-Morpork would be getting it's drinking water from if teh river is unusable.

[Broomstick]

I think that accounts for some of the vast popularity of imported alcohol in that city.

[Tristan]

Yeah, I used to think pollution, but at some point in the last few years I have decided it is more of a silt laden river. I'm sure there is pollution, but I think it's more of an issue of it being silted up

[Great Antibob]

It's both silt and pollution. There are tons of references for the need to avoid actually drinking from (or rather, eating) the Ankh.

Anybody who happens to fall in could almost walk out but would also happen to be rather pungent.

[Scissorjack]

It seemed to be fairly wet in Thud! when it seeped into the mines, although maybe that was just the bottom half.

[Boulter's Canary]

What is the actual consistency of the river Ankh?

About that of the Thames in the 1850s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink)

[JessMagic]

About that of the Thames in the 1850s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink)

Yeah, I always assumed the Ankh was an exaggerated version of the Thames of the Victoria period, which was notorious. Y'know, Pratchett being English and all.

[si_blakely]

<Diskworld geek mode>
A defining feature of the Diskworld is Narrative Causality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_(world)#Narrative_causality) - so whatever makes the story right is true at the time.

Thus the Ankh allows Mr Pin and Mr Tulip entry to the city in a rowboat, but is solid enough to prevent the sinking of a sack of dogs later in the story (The Truth).

And the Ankh does flood, and the city has layers underneath caused by silt layed down by floods (references to underground streets and cellars that used to be ground floors in Men at Arms, The Truth).
<\Diskworld geek mode>

Si
Thud, I think, for the weekend

[Mangetout]

Yeah, I always assumed the Ankh was an exaggerated version of the Thames of the Victoria period, which was notorious. Y'know, Pratchett being English and all.

Concur. (although probably with references to other famous extravagantly polluted rivers thrown in) And the implication is that whereas the folks in London decided to take action to sort it out, the folks in Ankh-Morpork decided they'd do it later, or the funds to address the problem went missing,, or the project was against someone's commercial interests, or something like that.

Pratchett uses devices like this a great deal - take a human predicament and project it (comically) way past the point where roundworlders would already have decided enough is enough.

[constanze]

I'm curious as to how much of that is hyperbole and how much of that is Terry Pratchett creating a river that is actually so polluted that it is literally almost not liquid anymore. I can't decide.

Like a wave and particle, why can't it be both? Hyperbole inspired by real round-world history, and a story-telling device that allows humorous asides (like small bushes growing on it, or that the rowing race is held with bottomless boats and running very fast).

And a river that similar to the Thames or others runs a long way through a big city after a long passage through plains (= silt) can still be "almost solid" or choked up with solid stuff in some areas, and navigable enough to at least enter the city with a real rowboat in another part, depending on local currents and blockades. Lots of rainfalls in certain seasons could change the consistency from one month of a story to the next.

The story of basements and low-lying storeys being abandonded after a big flood and everybody just building another storey on top of the houses in one novel was after all inspired by TPratchett visiting real Seattle, where this happened in real life (as he says in a fore-note).

[ftg]

The story of basements and low-lying storeys being abandonded after a big flood and everybody just building another storey on top of the houses in one novel was after all inspired by TPratchett visiting real Seattle, where this happened in real life (as he says in a fore-note).

Underground Seattle was not caused by flooding. The Pioneer Square area had been low lying and marginally marshy. It is close to Elliott Bay (Puget Sound) which only had tidal variation. No major river to cause flooding. What the early Seattleites did was pressure wash away part of a hill on purpose to create fill to raise the level of the area. Ground floors became basements.

[Lust4Life]

I read in one of the D.W. books that silt from the plains was the major thickner for the Ankh.

The Nile inundations were apparently so life giving to Egypt, not just because of the flooding of the water but the mud deposited on farmland.

Could the Ankh be similar.

[Chronos]

Thus the Ankh allows Mr Pin and Mr Tulip entry to the city in a rowboat, but is solid enough to prevent the sinking of a sack of dogs later in the story (The Truth).I picture the act of rowing on the Ankh to be rather more like what we would call "sledding".

[ftg]

Now that I've been thinking about it, a big reason Seattle added a layer was because of the introduction of flush toilets. The outlets connected straight to the sound and when the tide came in ... watch out.

Ankh-Morpork also lies on a body of water, the Circle Sea, and there's a moon. Presumably there's tides. Has this ever been more than mentioned in passing in a Discworld book? I.e., the effect of a tide on the city or it's river caused something to happen?

[GuanoLad]

If the Ankh hadn't been so thick and mucky, Gaspode would never have survived his attempted drowning as a puppy.

[OpalCat]

Yeah there are various plot points that hinge on the consistency of the Ankh... which is part of the reason I'm curious what other people think Terry Pratchett's vision of its literal "texture" is likely to be...

[silenus]

A lot of the flooding of Ankh-Morpork has occurred when they City is struck by fire. The close the river gates and let the Ankh flood to put out the fire.

The Ankh is obviously based on the Thames, right down to the bight.

[Chronos]

Which clearly shows that Pterry isn't using some real rivers I know of as inspiration, because flooding the Cuyahoga, say, would just make the fires worse.

[Yookeroo]

Concur. (although probably with references to other famous extravagantly polluted rivers thrown in) And the implication is that whereas the folks in London decided to take action to sort it out, the folks in Ankh-Morpork decided they'd do it later, or the funds to address the problem went missing,, or the project was against someone's commercial interests, or something like that.

Pratchett uses devices like this a great deal - take a human predicament and project it (comically) way past the point where roundworlders would already have decided enough is enough.

Ankh-Morporkians sound like the current version of the GOP.

[Shakester]

...or that the rowing race is held with bottomless boats and running very fast).

Pterry didn't invent that particular joke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henley-on-Todd_Regatta).

[constanze]

I think he used the joke very early, before he went to roundworld -XXXX, though.

[silenus]

He used it in Lords and Ladies, IIRC. Talking about Ridcully the Brown.