Exacto Knives- Good or Evil?

[counterattackii]

I realize that Exacto knives (and similar ones) are very useful, but I have been cut-badly mind you- with them on my thumbs about *counting scars*14 times. No I am not clumsy- I own (and use daily)more knives and/or swords than most people see in their lives and virtually never get cut. Personally I think they are evil- I am not the only one who sees them this way. I am looking for opinions on the matter.

[JillGat]

[[I own (and use daily)more knives and/or swords than most people see in their lives]] One wonders, but hesitates to ask.
I happen to really like exacto knives, but I also realize it's easy to go overboard with them because they work so damn well. Stay away from your cuticles, though, I learned that the hard way.

[Sofa King]

I'll bet I'm not the only guy out there who joined Team X because of the less-than-helpful "safety tip" that so easily slips out of the hand.

But then again, the worst cut I ever gave myself came from trying to disable the safety on a disposable cigarette lighter with a steak knife, so I might just be the only guy out there.

I live for danger!

[Nickrz]

You've been cut (badly, mind you) about 14 times (on your thumbs alone?) yet you say you "virtually never get cut"?

Something's wrong with that picture.

**Caution!** Xacto knives contain razor sharp blades. They will cut you if you screw up!

[counterattackii]

I'd like to clear that up: I have been cut 1 time on my sword, 1 time by 1 of my other knives, but 14 by Exacto- and I only use them 5 or 6 times a year.

[Nickrz]

I'm sorry, counter - I'm picturing your house as the cartoon kitchen scene at the beginning of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?.

Seriously, I've been using Xacto knives in model-building since I was about 10 years old. I may have cut myself once or twice, but one very quickly learns the capability of a razor-sharp piece of steel vis-a-vis flesh slicing. You say you're not "clumsy" but I wonder..

It's like using a hack saw vs. a radial-arm saw. You just have to be more careful when a single slip or careless moment can result in loss of blood or or digit or limb.

[Temujin]

Exacto Knives don't cut people.
People cut people.

[moriah]

Exacto knives have a handle that screams I dare you to hold me! Tiny and round. No grips, no blade guard. Recipe for disaster. It's as safe as using a bare, flat, double-sided shaving blade.

Peace.

[radar ralf]

lol - If exacto knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have exacto knives! I support RKBEK!

[Mr Thin Skin]

I own (and use daily)more knives and/or swords than most people see in their lives and virtually never get cut.

On what, pray tell, do you use your sword daily. Are you a samurai tailor?

[voltaire]

Yeah, my brother was once using an Exacto knife in conjunction with a ruler in order to cut a straight line. Well, problem was that his thumb that he was using to hold the ruler in place was hanging over the cutting edge just a bit. You can imagine the rest of the story when he did a quick cut along the rulers edge.

My personal finger cutting nightmare was with one of those all-purpose rectangular shaped razors that you're supposed to put in widgets and such. Well, like most people, I was just using the blade alone, without a holder. I was scraping a piece of heavy-duty velcro off the side of a monitor with a downward motion. The razor got caught up in the plastic of the monitor and the downward pushing motion caused the razor to flip over and subsequently get shoved into the space between the velcro and the monitor. Needless to say, this all happened in a fraction of a second while I was still applying significant downforce to the razor. That down-force was absorbed by the tip of my finger as it came down straight on the blade with enough strength to cleave the tip of my finger and cut straight through a significant portion of my fingernail. Luckily, it missed hitting a previous wound that was incurred when shutting a folding lockback knife by a couple millimeters. That previous wound required plastic surgery, but didn't hurt nearly as much as the razor incident. I sometimes cringe when using razors to this day.

[Satan]

A sword?!?!?

Remind me to NEVER get into a flame war with you, pal...

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Yer pal,
Satan

[AWB]

The OXO brand of cutlery is exceptionally sharp too.

After receiving a bunch of them as wedding gifts, I was using the potato peeler. I found out it also serves as an index finger peeler.

One more use: after returning from Kaiser to patch up my finger, I went to bed and my wife continued fixing the potatoes. She removed a piece of potato peel from the peeler, only to figure out that it was the missing slice of my finger! So its third function is a wife-grosser-outer. :)

[Inky]

X-Acto's are both boon and bane. They are a vicious mistress and every graphic artist wears their scars proudly.

[Jophiel]

Yeah, my brother was once using an Exacto knife in conjunction with a ruler in order to cut a straight line. Well, problem was that his thumb that he was using to hold the ruler in place was hanging over the cutting edge just a bit. You can imagine the rest of the story when he did a quick cut along the rulers edge.
Back in college we were warned about this on Day One of Graphic Design 101. Nevertheless, you could tell the G.D. folk from the rest of the folk by the circular healing patches on all our thumb tips.

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

[AuraSeer]

Rule One of using a sharp object is to cut away from yourself. Let me repeat that for the slow learners: cut away from yourself.

A lot of people cut their thumbs when making a whittling-type cut to a solid object. The common impulse is to rest your right thumb on the object, wrap the other four fingers around the knife handle, and move the blade toward the thumb by contracting your hand. This is unsafe, because as soon as the blade slips, it will slice straight into the flesh of your thumb.

A safer way to use an Exacto for this is to grip it in a medium-tight fist, with your thumb just behind and below the unsharpened edge of the blade. Aim the sharp edge away from your body, and cut using the motion of your wrist. Hold the object in place with a clamp or vise, or stick it to the table with Fun-Tak.

If a right-hander cuts his left thumb, it's often done when cutting paper on a flat surface. The common mistake here is to cut "southward", straight toward the body. Because of your arm's angle, you have less control over the blade as it gets closer to your pelvis; since the left hand is usually holding the "south-west" corner of the paper, it can easily get in the way of the blade.

The safer way to cut on a flat surface is to do it from left to right, assuming you're right-handed. Not only is this less likely to slice your left hand, but it also prevents you from stabbing yourself in the belly if the blade slips. (This is a pretty rare occurrence, but any puncture wound to the abdomen can be very nasty.)

When used properly, Exacto knives are neither evil nor particularly dangerous. I use one a few times per week, and have done so since I was in junior high school; the last time I accidentally cut myself was over three years ago.

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Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle.

[AuraSeer]

BWT, counter, what were you doing with the sword when you managed to cut yourself? I own a fully live broadsword, plus several daggers of assorted sizes, and I have never accidentally cut myself on any of them.

[Holly]

I agree with moriah; those Exactos have a slippery, round, gripless handle and an awkward weight. It's like handling a live snake.
In high school art class, we used Exactos all the time for cutting matboard and such. On the first day of class, Mr. Tobin demonstrated how to use the knife correctly and very neatly sliced off two of his fingers. He was able to have them reattached, but that image has haunted me during the intervening years. I've never cut myself with an Exacto knife.

[Strainger]

Safety tip from Strainger:

Store your Exacto knife with the pointy end inside the handle.

I've cut myself on a few occasions with various knives (never an Exacto, though. Hmmm...). I have no one or thing to blame for these events except myself.

[Glitch]

I don't know about counterattack, but I cut myself on a sword once. It was in my swordsmanship class and I was picking up the various practice swords we were using. One was a live sword. Ouch. :(

I have been cut a few other times by somebody else using a sword in practice. I have also been bonked on the head with a bo staff, whacked to the side of the head with a tonfa, had a student nearly gut me with a kama, got a really nice cut from a sai (which was odd because it is dull), etc. Basically, it isn't that unusual for somebody who trains with melee weapons to get hit with them every now and then. Now if you are just running around the house slashing at air with it and you manage to cut yourself ... well, maybe you need a new collection. Of course, then there are nunchaku. You can (make that will) really beat the crap out of yourself with those.

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What more could you expect from somebody who lets people kick him to the head?

[counterattackii]

As far as the swords go- I was using a sword and a dagger vs my friend with a live two handed sword. He gave an overhead strike, I went to block with the dagger, the dagger intercepted it, but the crossguard broke(and it was a Starfire Dagger too!) and so consequently I suffered a long slash on my left hand from my wrist to the end of my middle finger. I DID get to smash him on top of the head *at the same time* with the flat of my sword though...

[Glitch]

As far as the swords go- I was using a sword and a dagger vs my friend with a live two handed sword. He gave an overhead strike, I went to block with the dagger, the dagger intercepted it, but the crossguard broke(and it was a Starfire Dagger too!) and so consequently I suffered a long slash on my left hand from my wrist to the end of my middle finger. I DID get to smash him on top of the head *at the same time* with the flat of my sword though...

I was going to stay out of this since I try not to interfere or criticize other training methods. See #4 below for why I am offering this for you to ponder.

1) Blocking a greatsword/claymore/no dachi with a dagger is not very wise. Of course, I don't know all the details of what you two were doing or the details of the dagger itself (a long dagger or good sized main gauche could be okay as a sidearm against a greatsword; however, I looked up the Starfire dagger and it didn't appear very big in his catalog). But if the force of the blow was sufficient to break your guard I assume you weren't training to see how difficult it is to block a greatsword with a dagger. See #3 below.

2) You struck your friend in the head with your sword. I hope by accident. As above, I have taken many injuries from teaching and learning how to use various melee weapons, but never intentionally. In fact, I can say with pretty much 100% certainty that every injury occured because I didn't do what my instructor had told me, or because my student didn't do what I told them. See #3 below.

3) As a general rule when using live weapons you might want to consider using a more traditional training method. Usually, the idea is to use particular attack routines that your partner is aware of and you have told him you will do. Free sparring with live weapons is plain foolishness. Again, I don't know exactly what you were doing.

4) This is all my opinion as a longtime martial arts and weapons instructor. You can take it or leave, as it is offered for free. It is also offered in the spirit of keeping you from killing yourself, somebody else or getting severely hurt. I have seen this happen before, and it pains me to hear of it happening again. You can even flame me if you like, but personally it sounds to me like you are engaging in a very dangerous behaviour/training.

5) Was the crossguard made of white steel? Do you know why it broke (i.e. was it cracked, etc)? Did you contact Starfire? Have they offered to replace the defective dagger? I am curious because coincidentally one of my students gave me a catalog for Starfire just a couple of weeks ago. Now, I am wondering if there products are as good as the material provided claims them to be. Any input you have would be appreciated.

[Welfy]

Exacto knives have a handle that screams I dare you to hold me! Tiny and round. No grips, no blade guard. Recipe for disaster. It's as safe as using a bare, flat, double-sided shaving blade.

That's one thing I don't like about Exacto knives--no blade guard. :( But on my Exacto knife (and the same ones probably counter uses; he goes to my school) I believe there is a form of a gripper on the very bottom near the blade. There are ridges and they seem to serve as a grip. At least for me. I like Exacto knives, though the one I have right now doesn't work very well, and I'd rather eat nails than try to change the blade.

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Welfy

I wonder what the king is doing tonight?

[Mike]

Not evil, but very dangerous.

I use exacto knives for model airplane building. I was cutting a tougher piece of balsa and put some pressure on the knife. When the wood let go the knife went down and cut through my jeans and across my leg about 1/2 inch deep. Since I had superglue available I held the wound closed and zapped it with the glue. It worked great and their were no stitch marks. I was sorry to lose the jeans though.

Much more seriously my son sat against an exacto knife which had been used by someone else and left on a couch pillow. It went straight into his back and knicked his lung. He recovered very quickly, but it was a terrifying trip the hospital in an ambulance.
I now keep the knife locked up.

[tanstaafl]

I have been using x-acto knives for years and have only cut myself once (and that was while doing something stupid with it). The smaller ones I own have smooth handles with a cross-hatch pattern like grip just above the blade. I always hold them by this grip like I would a pencil and have never had a problem with one slipping.

The larger knives have fairly thick, shaped handles. One has an eight sided metal handle and the other has a plastic handle which looks a bit like the grip on a screwdriver. Both of them are very secure when held.

(The one time I cut myself I was holding a piece of plastic in my hand and trying to "drill" a hole through it by pushing the x-acto knife into it and twisting. The plastic suddenly broke and the knife plunged into my palm. Ouch. Like I said, stupidity on my part; it's a knife, not a drill and I shouldn't have been holding the plastic the way I was anyway.)

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"You can't run away forever; but there's nothing wrong with getting a good head start." --- Jim Steinman

Dennis Matheson --- Dennis@mountaindiver.com
Hike, Dive, Ski, Climb --- www.mountaindiver.com (http://www.mountaindiver.com)

[AuraSeer]

One at a time, no shoving please.

Mike wrote:
I was cutting a tougher piece of balsa and put some pressure on the knife. When the wood let go the knife went down and cut through my jeans and across my leg about 1/2 inch deep.

You made three mistakes here:
1) You cut toward your body. See my first post, above.
2) There was nothing between you and the blade, except the wood. One should always cut over a table or workbench.
3) You tried to cut through the whole thickness by pressing. If an object is not thin enough to cut through with one pass of the blade, make several light passes, cutting partway through each time. Better yet, use a wire saw.

This does not prove that the knife is dangerous, but rather that you were being careless.

Mike continued:
I now keep the knife locked up.
This is the absolute best way to prevent accidents like the one you describe. It's good to hear that your son was not permanently injured.

Holly wrote:
Mr. Tobin demonstrated how to use the knife correctly and very neatly sliced off two of his fingers.
He sliced the fingers off? Are you sure this was an Exacto knife, and not a lightsaber or something? It would take one hell of a lot of pressure to go through two fingers, even if he caught them right at the joint. I won't accuse you of lying, but I have a lot of trouble believing this story.

Welfy wrote:
I like Exacto knives, though the one I have right now doesn't work very well, and I'd rather eat nails than try to change the blade.
A dull-bladed knife is very unsafe, because it is far more likely to slip. It may no longer have enough edge to make smooth cuts in wood or paper, but it is still sharp enough to slice you open. Carefully change the blade whenever the knife becomes difficult to use.

If you're absolutely phobic about taking the blade out yourself, ask a friend with steady hands to do it for you. Heck, if you live in St. Louis, I'll do it myself. For free, even.



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Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle.

[Nickrz]

I kept hoping someone would pick up on it..
there is no E in Xacto. No hyphen, either.

[Holly]

Mr. Tobin did indeed slice his fingers off- that is, they were attached by some meat but dangling. I will conceed that I did not inspect the wounds closely, partly because they were obscured by fountains of blood and partly because I was running screaming in the other direction.

"Now, kids, don't ever do this:"
SLICE
"AIEEE!!!"

[Satan]

When the wood let go the knife went down and cut through my jeans and across my leg about 1/2 inch deep. Since I had superglue available I held the wound closed and zapped it with the glue. It worked great and their were no stitch marks.

WHAT?!?!?

Kids, please don't try this at home! Jeez...

[pmh]

Gotta agree w/ AuraSeer. I work w/ a wide variety of tools daily. Every time I have suffered ANY injury it has been because I was doing something STUPID. Tools are neither good nor evil. They are tools. Know how to use them properly.

Also, wrt Satan's post above, There is a cyanoacrylate-like glue used in some emergency rooms to close wounds, works great. But regular super/krazy glue IS toxic.

[Homer]

I cut myself badly across the pad of my thumb one time, and the wound kept popping open, so finally I just grabbed some superglue, held the wound shut, and ran a bead down it. Worked perfectly. Toxic or not, it sure as hell was better than a band-aid. Some blood dribbled out and made the superglue a cool pinkish-red, too.

--Tim

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We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first "lost generation" nor today's lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.

[Enright3]

Gee, What a fun topic. Everyone likes talking about their own battle scars. One day many years ago, I decide I was going to learn to whittle. No sooner than my wife saying "Be careful", did my pocketknife hit a knothole, flip over and slam shut on my knuckle. Blood everywhere. I still can't bend that finger.

Enright3

[pmh]

Homer:

Never said it didn't work. It does. I've used it. Got (minor) nerve damage to prove it.

Good news, the ER (safe) version may be available OTC soon.

[DougC]

- - - The best & worst cutting tool I have found is the motor tool heads made by Creative Technologies. These are little triangle pieces of carbon steel mounted on shafts. I bought two for cutting marble: the first quickly went dull and I didn't bother trying with the second (they cost $30 each) but they absolutely rip through wood, plastic and soft metal. The problem is that they also grab a lot, and if you hit your hand, they carve out little chunks of flesh that bleed for quite a while because it isn't just a slice - a bunch of little pieces of flesh are scooped out and scattered all over the floor. The first time I used one, I hit my hand in less than ten seconds. - MC

[radar ralf]

Satan, et al: actually, the use of plain old Super Glue (cyanoacrylate) is highly recommended for treatment of blisters on the feet when medical help is not immediately available. And an xacto knife would come in very handy in the procedure. I am not sure about the toxicity of Super Glue, but I have been using it as a "liquid suture" for years on minor cuts. Any more information on medical-grade cyano? Sounds like I should switch over to a safer product...

[pmh]

Retraction: :(

I was apparently mistaken about the toxicity of cyanoacrylate glue. Upon further research, I have found that these glues are being used in both heart and eye surgery.
http://www.physweekly.com/archive/97/11_17_97/cu4.html
and http://www.slackinc.com/eye/os/stor0496/alio.html
respectively.

All MSDS I can find list skin and eye irritation as the only exposure effects.

I AM sorry for posting inaccurate info. The doc said ... and I believed. Apparently my nerve damage is due to the injury itself rather than the treatment.

As for the "medical" glues, it seems they ARE the same stuff.

Again, my apologies. I will check word of mouth "knowledge" much closer in the future.

[Whammo]

I am a former Hobby Shop Clerk/Guru of many years and I can attest to BOTH the cutting power of Xacto knives (notice no E!!) and the virtues of Cyanoacrylate glues (best stuff on earth) as an added bonus if you ever plan on robbing some place just cover your fingertips in Cy glue and NO fingerprints!! yet no traction either.. *L* PS... dont spray your prints with kicker afterwards or you will get NASTY blisters.. :)

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The wisest man I ever knew taught me something I never forgot. And although I never forgot it, I never quite memorized it either. So what I'm left with is the memory of having learned
something very wise that I can't quite remember. -George Carlin

[NanoByte]

Never heard from so many cutups in one place. before. Still cleaning up the face of my monitor. However, if you're into encores, do all your cutting on your scanner glass so you can post images here and do better at grossing everyone out.

Ray (Haven't used an Xacto knife regularly, but never had one attack me.)

[NanoByte]

I AM sorry for posting inaccurate info. The doc said ... and I believed.

Doctors -- the worst source of info in the US. The prime reason they're in the racket is to PLAY A ROLE. 'It says here people are supposed to listen to doctors. Good, I don't have to read; I don't have to observe; I can just say sunh'm. They'll listen. Great, I'm gonna be one o' them.' And it passed that he became one o' them.

Ray

[tanstaafl]

I kept hoping someone would pick up on it..
there is no E in Xacto. No hyphen, either.

Actually... there is a hyphen. See:
http://www.mountaindiver.com/images/x-acto.jpg

X-Acto is a registered trademark of Hunt Manufacturing.

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"You can't run away forever; but there's nothing wrong with getting a good head start." --- Jim Steinman

Dennis Matheson --- Dennis@mountaindiver.com
Hike, Dive, Ski, Climb --- www.mountaindiver.com (http://www.mountaindiver.com)

[Nickrz]

I sit corrected. It's X-acto.

[AuraSeer]

While it's true that Krazy Glue is chemically the same as surgical cyanoacrilate, you still shouldn't use the regular stuff to close cuts. An ABCNews article about common first-aid mistakes says the store-bought glues can contain "bacteria, splinters, and other contaminants."

Full text of the article is here: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/MensHealth/menshealth.html