My co-worker did not know how to reboot a computer (things a certain age group should know).

[CatherineZeta]

She told me the scanner wasn't working. I checked and there was nothing wrong, not even an error message. However I told her if it ever says "scanner not connected" she should try rebooting first. She asked how to do that and I had to show her.

We are 22. This is not someone who doesn't have computer access at home.

I would expect someone under 30, hell even under 40 or 50, to at least know the very basics of how a computer operates.

[Lancia]

I'm 30, and I know almost nothing about computers. When you say "reboot", I assume, probably in error, that you mean restart, from the start menu.

See? Don't know shit about computers. (Didn't have one until a few years ago and have never had it connected to the net. Use my phone or a computer at school for internet).

[carnivorousplant]

My users have that problem, too. I now ask, "Did you turn it off and turn it back on?"
:)

[RealityChuck]

"Rebooting" is disappearing as a term, being replaced by "restarting," and it has been fading out for at least a decade. It's not a case of them not knowing; it's a case of you using an obsolete term.

[SeaCanary]

OP: Maybe the co-worker should know, maybe not. But nobody pops out of the womb knowing this stuff. Show some charity and patience and show them how to do it without making them feel bad in the process.

[CatherineZeta]

Re-boot/re-start- she didn't know how to turn the computer on and off from the start menu is what I mean.

I wasn't a jack ass to her about it, I just showed her how to do it.

I don't expect anyone to be a genius, but given that all of my friends and co-workers use computers, I would think that turning it on and off from the start menu would be something one would encounter.

[GuanoLad]

Many people have pointed out elsewhere online the absurdity of calling the button where you turn the computer off as "the Start menu." Though I am pro-Windows generally, I have to agree it's counter-intuitive.

[CatherineZeta]

Many people have pointed out elsewhere online the absurdity of calling the button where you turn the computer off as "the Start menu." Though I am pro-Windows generally, I have to agree it's counter-intuitive.

Good point. But is it called that because that's also where all the programs and folders are listed, as in that's where you "start"?

[carnivorousplant]

"Rebooting" is disappearing as a term, being replaced by "restarting," and it has been fading out for at least a decade.

I was not aware of that. I don't recall any technical people using "restart" instead of "reboot", although I've always seen it in over simplified "documentation for dummies." :)

[mnemosyne]

Good point. But is it called that because that's also where all the programs and folders are listed, as in that's where you "start"?

I think that was the original reasoning, back when Win95 came out...instead of having all your programs in front of you in the program manager (http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/win31-1-1.png), Windows switched to the Start menu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows_95_at_first_run.jpg) and they had an ad campaign associated with the Rolling Stone's "Start me up" song. The idea of being able to do so much more than with previous versions was - as it is now - a major marketing point.

[Patty O'Furniture]

Many people have pointed out elsewhere online the absurdity of calling the button where you turn the computer off as "the Start menu." Though I am pro-Windows generally, I have to agree it's counter-intuitive.

Wait... this "on" button thingy right here? You mean it's also the OFF button? Crazy!

[Tamex]

Maybe she's always used Macs? ;)

[aceplace57]

Users shouldn't need to touch the pc on/off button to turn off. Unless windows hangs.

Windows shutdown has fully powered off the computer ever since ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) standards were introduced into the BIOS, in the late 90's.

I always ask my users to shutdown and then power back on. I don't think windows restart fully powers off the motherboard.

[Projammer]

Several times a year I'll get a call from someone that thinks they've rebooted when they turn the monitor off and back on.

All age brackets. There's no bell curve.

Although the ones that refer to the computer as a modem or hard drive are invariably in the over-40 bracket.

[BigT]

Users shouldn't need to touch the pc on/off button to turn off. Unless windows hangs.


Or, in my opinion, the user should never have to use the Start button to shut down the computer. Having the power button perform a shutdown has existed for nearly as long as what you mention.

The exception is some modern computers that default to sleep/hibernate when the button is pressed, as the the idea is that the average user shouldn't need to shutdown very often.

[Musicat]

Users shouldn't need to touch the pc on/off button to turn off. Unless windows hangs.Which every computer does. Often. Something that Microsoft is totally blind to.

[CatherineZeta]

I was under the impression that using the on/off button to shut the computer down was bad for it. If I have to do that my computer usually says Windows didn't shut down properly when I turn it back on.

[aceplace57]

CatherineZeta you're right. Killing the power while running windows is really bad for it and can corrupt files. That's why Windows warns you at startup that it failed to shutdown properly. Usually windows can fix the damage itself and you'll notice a slightly longer boot time. But, there's always a chance that you'll have to manually fix the problem yourself with chkdsk.

Up at work all the staff computers are protected by a UPS. So we never crash when the lights go out. The UPS gives us that 10 minutes to shutdown properly ourselves.

[Lasciel]

Up at work all the staff computers are protected by a UPS. So we never crash when the lights go out. The UPS gives us that 10 minutes to shutdown properly ourselves.

I've got UPSs(UPSeses? UPSi?) also (at home and work), but I've had several hangups so bad in the past that I've HAD to manually shut down - it happens all the time on our work computers, because we're forced to run IE and we don't have any permissions at all. It sucks.

How likely is it that force-restarting will cause damage to the disk? (I don't give much of a shit about the work computers. They're not my problem, and if they won't let me have the tools to help solve things, then screw them) However, I have had to do my own two computers a few times, and I always worry about it. :(

[aceplace57]

ymmv but I rarely see it damage anything by pulling the plug. Windows fusses at the restart. At most running chkdsk will fix any ruptured files. Its been a couple years since I had to do it manually.

I usually can avoid having to pull the plug by killing a hanged process in task manager. But there are times you just have to force it down.

[GusNSpot]

I am old, 68 to be exact, and I think that re-start is totally different from re-boot or total power down.

There are several ways to do it but I normaly got through the 'start' button / menu and chose re-start because the 100,037th Adobe patch / revision wants me to or chose 'shut down' because I want to re-boot or actually shut it ( computer )down. And since I pay for the electricity around here & there are 7 working computers, I do not leave them all on 24/7.... The solid state hard drives do not seem to wear out faster from this.

YMMV

[Musicat]

How likely is it that force-restarting will cause damage to the disk? (I don't give much of a shit about the work computers. They're not my problem, and if they won't let me have the tools to help solve things, then screw them) However, I have had to do my own two computers a few times, and I always worry about it. :(Theoretically, just about anything could happen if the voltage/signal to the drive is irregular or not to specifications. But in 30 years of computing, I've had very few failures that could be blamed on a manual shutdown except for occasional file corruption, and I've had more file corruption due to Windows bugs than unexpected shutdowns. Windows is not a robust system and most home PCs are not robust in the hardware department, either.

And again, theoretically, if a write operation to the directory of the disk is what is interrupted, all or part of the directory could become unusable. Chkdsk/scandisk may or may not fix it.

It all points to the importance of backup, backup and backup, the three most important things about computer operation.


ymmv but I rarely see it damage anything by pulling the plug. Windows fusses at the restart.True, and the worst part about the "fussing" is it often enables what it thinks is future self-protection, like turning on (without warning) many options that I never want to use -- internal checks that I deliberately disabled. Maddening when it's an Opsys error that caused the needed shutdown in the first place.

[Gusano]

Working for a help desk facing a wide range of user experience levels, I usually just tell my caller to power down fully, then power the system back on. If the user tells me it won't power down, I advise proving the superiority of humans over computers by unplugging the machine from the wall. The user's resulting sense of empowerment usually allows me to better guide him/her through whatever fix might be necessary.

[carnivorousplant]

If the user tells me it won't power down, I advise proving the superiority of humans over computers by unplugging the machine from the wall.

May I steal that idea, Gusano? :)

[Gusano]

May I steal that idea, Gusano? :)

Certainly!

[Canadjun]

Working for a help desk facing a wide range of user experience levels, I usually just tell my caller to power down fully, then power the system back on. If the user tells me it won't power down, I advise proving the superiority of humans over computers by unplugging the machine from the wall. The user's resulting sense of empowerment usually allows me to better guide him/her through whatever fix might be necessary.

Don't most PCs force a power off if you hold in the power button for 10 seconds or so? I thought that was marginally safer than pulling the plug since you'd be less likely to get power spikes. Those few times when my computer was absolutely hung I've been able to knock it out that way (also easier than finding the right power cord in the maze behind my stuff).

[Lasciel]

Don't most PCs force a power off if you hold in the power button for 10 seconds or so? I thought that was marginally safer than pulling the plug since you'd be less likely to get power spikes. Those few times when my computer was absolutely hung I've been able to knock it out that way (also easier than finding the right power cord in the maze behind my stuff).

That's what I was referring to by forcing it off, at least. I can't remember the last time I actually had to unplug any machine to get it off. I always assumed that using the power button to override the shut-down process was just as bad as unplugging it - it was just easier to get to the power button. That would make me feel better to know that it wasn't actually as bad.

[johnpost]

depends on the OS and version; restart isn't as visible as an option as it used to be. a person may have never used it and be unaware of it with recent versions.

[RealityChuck]

I was not aware of that. I don't recall any technical people using "restart" instead of "reboot", although I've always seen it in over simplified "documentation for dummies." :)Depends on how old you are, but "reboot" is only used by the old farts in most computer contexts. It's like calling something an LPT port or parallel port -- the usual term for them (where they do exist) is "Printer port." Older techies might know the older term, but they are fading away.

[Taomist]

Since I've started playing SW:TOR, I've had to hardboot every single day, as the game totally hangs up Windows sometimes. But I've never had a problem with a forced boot, and can't remember the last time I did a checkdisk.

Maybe it's time I did a checkdisk... :p

[Ibanez]

I was under the impression that using the on/off button to shut the computer down was bad for it. If I have to do that my computer usually says Windows didn't shut down properly when I turn it back on.

Yeah it is, and should be the last resort.

Here's the funny part. That's called a coldboot. There's also the warmboot, and another one I'm forgetting.

[carnivorousplant]

Here's the funny part. That's called a coldboot. There's also the warmboot, and another one I'm forgetting.

Apparently only by Old Farts. :rolleyes:

[CatherineZeta]

Apparently only by Old Farts. :rolleyes:

My dad who's an old fart calls it a "hard shutdown." He's also probably where I picked up the term "reboot," although I've also heard other random people say it, which is why I didn't realize it's becoming obsolete.

[SeaCanary]

Re-boot/re-start- she didn't know how to turn the computer on and off from the start menu is what I mean.

I wasn't a jack ass to her about it, I just showed her how to do it.

I don't expect anyone to be a genius, but given that all of my friends and co-workers use computers, I would think that turning it on and off from the start menu would be something one would encounter.
My comment came out harsher than I meant it. Apologies all around.

[chappachula]

, I usually just tell my caller to power down fully, then power the system back on.

what does "power down" mean ? Why not use straighforward English?
Like--- just tell me to turn the machine off, okay? Like every other machine in the house.

If I'm trying to sleep and want some quiet, I don't ask my wife to "power down" the ceiling light, or "power down" the TV. If the casserole is finished baking, I don't "power down" the oven.
I turn them off.
But if it's a computer--- everybody uses funny words for simple concepts...

[Thudlow Boink]

When you turn it off and back on, make sure you have a boot disk in floppy drive A:.

[Thudlow Boink]

(duplicate post)

[mhendo]

Many people have pointed out elsewhere online the absurdity of calling the button where you turn the computer off as "the Start menu." Though I am pro-Windows generally, I have to agree it's counter-intuitive.But it hasn't been called the Start button since at least the introduction of Windows 7, and possibly since Vista as well (i don't know, because i skipped Vista).

It is simply a blue button with the Windows symbol in it.

To be honest, even when it was actually called Start, i think it took some real dancing to argue that this somehow made it counter-intuitive as a place to turn the computer off. The start button, as anyone who spent more than about 20 seconds on the computer would realize, was simply the place you went when you wanted to make the computer do something. Shutting down was just one of the many things you could make it do.

Frankly, anyone who can't work that out after a minute of investigation should step away from the keyboard and stick to watching television, because actually using a computer will probably turn out to be too complicated for them.

[johnpost]

But it hasn't been called the Start button since at least the introduction of Windows 7, and possibly since Vista as well (i don't know, because i skipped Vista).

It is simply a blue button with the Windows symbol in it.

if you hover the mouse cursor over it it says START.

[tdn]

My dad who's an old fart calls it a "hard shutdown." He's also probably where I picked up the term "reboot," although I've also heard other random people say it, which is why I didn't realize it's becoming obsolete.

I call it hard boot/soft boot.

But that's because I'm an old fart.

[CatherineZeta]

My comment came out harsher than I meant it. Apologies all around.

No worries.

[carnivorousplant]

if you hover the mouse cursor over it it says START.

So it does in Windows 7.
I like XP, I'm an Old Fart. :)

The damn thing should work like a toaster. Turn the dial to brown, throw in the bread, punch the button and wait.

But it don't. It would help if all the apps were made by Microsoft and there were no viruses.

But it ain't that way.

[mhendo]

if you hover the mouse cursor over it it says START.I had not noticed that. I guess i'm smart enough to click directly on the button, instead of hovering over it trying to work out what the fuck i'm doing. This is not exactly rocket surgery we're talking about here.

[Nava]

Depends on how old you are, but "reboot" is only used by the old farts in most computer contexts. It's like calling something an LPT port or parallel port -- the usual term for them (where they do exist) is "Printer port." Older techies might know the older term, but they are fading away.

Your printer isn't USB? Old fart :p

Two years ago I went back to college for some grad courses in Computer-Aided Translation (which does not mean "using Babelfish" but "using special text editors which let you see the original and translation at the same time"). We had to turn every damn report and exercise in triplicate; finals had to include a CD hardcopy; it had to be CD, not DVD, as some of the teacher's computers didn't have DVD drives.

And I had to teach to several of my mid-20s classmates how to tell whether their computer's "CD player" was CD or DVD, how to tell whether it was a burner or not, and how to use their preinstalled burner.

What made my own brain try to give a BSoD was when, after about one hour of going over "burning disks", one of them said "what a stupid name, Nero! Why would they call their program such a stupid name?" and the rest agreed. One people not getting the pun, I can get, but six?

[tim-n-va]

Depends on how old you are, but "reboot" is only used by the old farts in most computer contexts. It's like calling something an LPT port or parallel port -- the usual term for them (where they do exist) is "Printer port." Older techies might know the older term, but they are fading away.

I'm 54, I'm amazed at you young folk thinking printer port is the correct name. :D

[jz78817]

Which every computer does. Often. Something that Microsoft is totally blind to.

the vast majority of system hangs are due to failed hardware or defective drivers. I challenge you to find me a consumer-grade OS which can tolerate that. 'cos neither OS X or Linux can.

ETA: while I realize it's still the in thing to bash Microsoft for everything from programs crashing to the fall of the Soviet Union, what you've said here is patently false on its own. Microsoft has a pretty damn good idea of what makes Windows crash, (http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2008/03/28/29-of-windows-vista-crashes-caused-by-nvidia-drivers/) and by and large it's not Windows.

"totally blind" indeed.

[Lust4Life]

Several times a year I'll get a call from someone that thinks they've rebooted when they turn the monitor off and back on.



So you mean......................

Oh shit I've been doing it wrong all this time.

[tim-n-va]

the vast majority of system hangs are due to failed hardware or defective drivers. I challenge you to find me a consumer-grade OS which can tolerate that. 'cos neither OS X or Linux can.

ETA: while I realize it's still the in thing to bash Microsoft for everything from programs crashing to the fall of the Soviet Union, what you've said here is patently false on its own. Microsoft has a pretty damn good idea of what makes Windows crash, (http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2008/03/28/29-of-windows-vista-crashes-caused-by-nvidia-drivers/) and by and large it's not Windows.

"totally blind" indeed.

Agree. Not an employee or owner of stock with MicroSoft. I don't recall any problems with Windows 7 hanging on my now three year old computer.

[CatherineZeta]

What made my own brain try to give a BSoD was when, after about one hour of going over "burning disks", one of them said "what a stupid name, Nero! Why would they call their program such a stupid name?" and the rest agreed. One people not getting the pun, I can get, but six?

That's funny. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of people don't get it.

[carnivorousplant]

That's funny. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of people don't get it.

I never connected it, I am ashamed to say.

[Justin_Bailey]

What made my own brain try to give a BSoD was when, after about one hour of going over "burning disks", one of them said "what a stupid name, Nero! Why would they call their program such a stupid name?" and the rest agreed. One people not getting the pun, I can get, but six?

Complaining about youngins not knowing what "reboot" means - REASONABLE

Complaining about youngins not knowing a jokey reference to Ancient Roman history (that never actually happened) - UNREASONABLE

Thank you. This has been Justin_Bailey's "You're being unreasonable!" response of the day.