Recommend a table saw

[Dumbguy]

I've been making furniture as a hobby for a while, and I decided it's time to spring for a really good table saw. Ideally I want a serious professional saw I can use for decades and not grow out of. They seem to range in price from just over $1000 to almost $5000, and it's hard for me to tell what you're getting for the money. I don't mind spending up to $2500 or so, but if I can get something that will do everything I need for less, that would obviously be better.

[JBDivmstr]

Delta is a name that springs to mind, when I think about a "shop" type saw.
(As in, a saw that won't have to endure being moved about much, or rather, you won't have to endure moving it.)

JSYK, I'm a life long carpenter, with a lot of time under my belt on both sides of a table saw. Granted, the majority of my TS usage has been with 'on the job' type saws that were portable. (well, kinda portable;))

I've inserted a link that I found informative, maybe you'll think so too. :) (SFW)
http://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/index.html
FWIW, I would think that you should be able to get the performance that you want for $2,000.00 at most. Of course that depends on what kind work you expect to do with it.
If you're planning on working with a lot of hardwoods, then you might want to invest in a saw with all ball bearings and some serious horse power. (3 h.p. minimum, even 5 h.p. isn't overkill IMHO)

[TriPolar]

The big advantage of a large table saw is in dealing with sheets of plywood. I've worked with smaller table saws now for years without any problems. I just cut plywood with a circular saw, and don't really use it much for cabinetry. My problem with smaller saws is they tend to be under-powered, especially for dados.

You may want to look at used saws. High quality, very heavy industrial saws are available at reasonable prices. The serious downside is that bearings and motor may have a limited life before they need replacing. Here's a PowerMatic 12" arbor saw (http://www.redmond-machinery.com/table_saws_used.htm) from this used table saw site. (http://www.redmond-machinery.com/table_saws_used.htm) $1200 is probably a third the price of that unit new.

[raindog]

I know nothing about table saws, but the higher the HP the greater the electrical requirements. Just a planning FYI.

[TriPolar]

I know nothing about table saws, but the higher the HP the greater the electrical requirements. Just a planning FYI.

Yup. He's going to need 220 on anything with a decent sized motor.

[JBDivmstr]

I've been making furniture as a hobby for a while, and I decided it's time to spring for a really good table saw. Ideally I want a serious professional saw I can use for decades and not grow out of. They seem to range in price from just over $1000 to almost $5000, and it's hard for me to tell what you're getting for the money. I don't mind spending up to $2500 or so, but if I can get something that will do everything I need for less, that would obviously be better.
Granted, there's not a whole lot that you can't do with a good table saw. ;)
(I've watched my Dad make a large bowl out of a solid wooden block, with nothing but a table saw.:cool:)
Not trying to 'threadshit' or 'hijack', but I would think that a band saw (as regards equipment/tools needed) would also be very useful for 'furniture making'.

I know nothing about table saws, but the higher the HP the greater the electrical requirements. Just a planning FYI.
Yup. He's going to need 220 on anything with a decent sized motor.Agreed, especially if you're going to be cutting a lot of hardwood lumber, or making a lot of dado cuts.
That shouldn't be a major problem. I would hazard to guess that better than 75% of modern homes (built after say, 1960?) already have a 220 volt / 100 amp service.

FWIW, like TriPolar, I find that a really good 'skil saw' with the right type of sharp, high quality blade is usually sufficient for most all of my cabinetry work.

(It's even possible to do 'dado' cuts with a 'skil' saw. :D)

[Fir na tine]

Ideally I want a serious professional saw I can use for decades and not grow out of.

Check out a Sawstop. Very good saw with an innovative safety feature. It's my opinion that in 10 years or so, all table saws will have to incorporate this feature.

[DirkGntly]

Sawstop does indeed make a good saw.
I also recommend looking at Grizzly. Very high quality for the price, but a word of caution about ANY table-saw: a TS is only as good as it's work surface, in both size and quality. If you have the cash, look at some of the new granite-surfaced units. They are rock-solid (pun intended) and they don't rust and won't change at ALL with the weather. Second to the surface is your fence - I recommend Biesemeyer, but that's because it's the one I've used the most. I've never had any deflection with mine, and I've used the same one for 10 years. Plus, it's very easy to add accessories or homemade/custom-made jigs.

[TriPolar]

Sawstop does indeed make a good saw.
I also recommend looking at Grizzly. Very high quality for the price, but a word of caution about ANY table-saw: a TS is only as good as it's work surface, in both size and quality. If you have the cash, look at some of the new granite-surfaced units. They are rock-solid (pun intended) and they don't rust and won't change at ALL with the weather. Second to the surface is your fence - I recommend Biesemeyer, but that's because it's the one I've used the most. I've never had any deflection with mine, and I've used the same one for 10 years. Plus, it's very easy to add accessories or homemade/custom-made jigs.

I've never had much of a problem with deflection. I would like a fence with a micro adjustment though.

Granite sounds interesting, but I'd worry about chipping/cracking it because sometimes I abuse re-purpose my tools.

[Sal Ammoniac]

Check out a Sawstop. Very good saw with an innovative safety feature. It's my opinion that in 10 years or so, all table saws will have to incorporate this feature.

If I had the money, that's what I'd do, too. Not just because of the insta-stop feature, but because it's said to be a very good saw. They actually have a range, from a "contractor's" saw at around $1,600, to a three-HP professional saw for $3,000. (Though parenthetically, the contractor's saw is a bit of a farce, since they sell it in three models, the lightest of which is... 265 pounds. My rule about contractor's saws is that they aren't allowed to weigh more than the contractor.)

[DirkGntly]

I've never had much of a problem with deflection. I would like a fence with a micro adjustment though.

Granite sounds interesting, but I'd worry about chipping/cracking it because sometimes I abuse re-purpose my tools.
I've not heard of chipping being a problem with the granite, but I can understand your concern (it is also resistant to glue, just FYI).
For micro-adjustment, you might look at some Incra products, or you can get an accessory for the Biesemeyer that allows for more fine adjustments. Personally, I've never done such fine work on the tablesaw that I've needed my fine adjustment accessory (I have one, but I don't recall the mfr.). Of course, I mostly work in whole measurements of an 1/8" or larger, and general cabinet work normally wouldn't require it -- but I can see where it would be useful, or I wouldn't have bought one myself.

A note on the SawStop - the device works, but destroys a lot of the machine, not just the blade, when it engages. That's definitely better than losing a finger or other body part, but I've wondered sometimes if, since the saw owner understands this is the case, if the owner isn't more careful by default simply because he knows the saw will be destroyed and he'll be having to buy another one (or lots of expensive parts). Of course, even if the thought of potentially expensive damage acts as a deterrent and encourages safe use, that's still a positive.

[Fir na tine]

A note on the SawStop - the device works, but destroys a lot of the machine, not just the blade, when it engages. That's definitely better than losing a finger or other body part, but I've wondered sometimes if, since the saw owner understands this is the case, if the owner isn't more careful by default simply because he knows the saw will be destroyed and he'll be having to buy another one (or lots of expensive parts). Of course, even if the thought of potentially expensive damage acts as a deterrent and encourages safe use, that's still a positive.

Any cite for that?

All of the woodworking forums I follow have Sawstop threads (some love them, some hate them) but no one has ever mentioned damage to anything other than the blade. And as everyone agrees, a blade is far less expensive than a finger or hand.

[DirkGntly]

Any cite for that?

All of the woodworking forums I follow have Sawstop threads (some love them, some hate them) but no one has ever mentioned damage to anything other than the blade. And as everyone agrees, a blade is far less expensive than a finger or hand.
I should have been more precise. The SawStop mechanism is destroyed in the process, not just the blade. There may be incidental damage to the blade arbor and bearings, as well. Obviously, you won't have to replace the whole saw, but you're definitely going to be out some dollars to replace the stop mechanism, at the very least.

[JBDivmstr]

Any cite for that?

All of the woodworking forums I follow have Sawstop threads (some love them, some hate them) but no one has ever mentioned damage to anything other than the blade. And as everyone agrees, a blade is far less expensive than a finger or hand.

Here is a link to a YouTube demonstration of the SawStop device by the guy that invented it. (SFW) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE
According to the video, the SawStop mechanism is destroyed and the cost of replacement is "about $60.00".
The video linked to shows a demonstration filmed with high speed photography.
The inventor actually puts his finger into the spinning blade, and isn't cut or injured.

[gotpasswords]

I should have been more precise. The SawStop mechanism is destroyed in the process, not just the blade. There may be incidental damage to the blade arbor and bearings, as well. Obviously, you won't have to replace the whole saw, but you're definitely going to be out some dollars to replace the stop mechanism, at the very least.
Damage to the trunnions is unlikely. Compared to similar sized saws, they're a good bit larger and stronger.

As for the brake cartridges, complaining about the cost to replace them is like comlaining about having to replace or recharge a fire extinguisher after putting out a fire that would have otherwise burned your house down. And never mind that they're cheaper than a hand or finger - they're cheaper than my ER visit co-pay.

[DirkGntly]

Damage to the trunnions is unlikely. Compared to similar sized saws, they're a good bit larger and stronger.

As for the brake cartridges, complaining about the cost to replace them is like comlaining about having to replace or recharge a fire extinguisher after putting out a fire that would have otherwise burned your house down. And never mind that they're cheaper than a hand or finger - they're cheaper than my ER visit co-pay.
It wasn't meant to be a complaint, more like a point-of-awareness. Just as I would say to anyone regarding a fire extinguisher, "You will need to check it annually, and it will cost some to recharge it if necessary." That doesn't mean I don't approve.

[Princhester]

JSYK, I'm a life long carpenter, with a lot of time under my belt on both sides of a table saw.

What are the two sides to a table saw? Being a woodworker or a piece of wood? ;)

[Dumbguy]

I ended up getting a SawStop. Thanks for all the advice. I've had it a few weeks and haven't managed to finish assembling it, so I haven't actually used it yet. I went to three tool stores, and everyone assured me it's the best saw available in addition to the safety feature, so I'm looking forward to firing it up and starting my first project this weekend.

[DirkGntly]

Hey Dumbguy,
I'm resurrecting a 9-month-old thread to ask you how your SawStop saw worked out for you...

[Dumbguy]

I've been really happy with it. The saw is great. The fence is great. I'm not such a fan of the miter sled that came with it, but the guy I bought it from warned me I'd probably want to upgrade that.

Haven't touched the blade yet thankfully, so I can't vouch for the safety mechanism :)

[gotpasswords]

I'm not such a fan of the miter sled that came with it...
Happily, that's even easier to change than a blade. Incra makes some really nice miter gages and sleds.

[Bones Daley]

It really pisses me off when I read more and more threads on the internet of people buying into the Sawstop bullshit.

The dangers from tablesaws aren't that you are going to cut your finger off ...unless you are really stoopid... the realistic danger is kickback which can be minimized by a properly adjusted riving knife..

The whole Sawstop thing has probably been discussed ad infinitum on here ..no point in me adding my 2 cents ...

[Fir na tine]

..no point in me adding my 2 cents ...

And the purpose of your post was ..................?

[gotpasswords]

You can't fix stupid, but if you're working late, in a hurry, the dog or kid runs in and distracts you, etc., there's where you run into trouble. It's that one split second of lost concentration that can put your finger into the blade.