Is This Cheating?

[AndyLee]

First of all let me preface this by saying that, this means nothing in reality, but it just bugs me on some level.

I lost my job in August and have had a bunch of low paying minimum wage jobs. Anyone I have one for the holidays, it ends next week.

So I work in a retail store and part of the stick is we get "graded" so to speak. The manager grades us and secret shpppers grade us. OK fair enough, we were given a book and told you are expected to ask the customers things when they check out.

Make sense, so I got two 100% from the secret shopper and I kept getting 100% from the manager. Sounds good right? No the GM says it's suppposed to be impossible to get 100% and soimething is not right. So I overhear the operations manager tell the GM, that she was "secretly" watching me and I did get 100%.

So the GM asks me how I'm doing it.

I tell him, "Simiple, I just made a list of the things in the book it says to ask each check out." I wrote it in small letters on a note pad, from 1 - 15. (We have 15 things to ask) And when someone checks out, I just glance at it and start down the list, so I don't forget. And if a customer strays, I still go back.

OK granted it's irritating to the customer, but I can see the company wanting such things. It's not really a lot, it's like

1) Greet customer
2) Ask if they found everything OK
3) Ask how they heard of us.
and so forth, till the end,
15) Thank customer and remind them to come back and to shop online.

So after I show the GM says, he says, real loud, "No wonder he gets 100%, he's cheating"

For some reason this bugs me. OK it means nothing as I'm only there temporary. So in a week I'll be gone, but I must admit for some reason it bugs me.

No one said, I couldn't use a list. It's pretty much hid under a stack of flyers we hand out and I was by the Ops Manager that they liked me and I could come back next Christmas, and they'd keep my name on a list for part time openings. So they seem happy with my work.

So is using a list cheating. I was told when I started, we would be shopped and expected to ask everything in the book to each customer.

What do you think?

[you with the face]

Not cheating at all. You followed the policy using a method that makes perfect sense to me. Unless the handbook forbids keeping a checklist, they need to sit down somewhere with that.

[LurkerInNJ]

That's not cheating. They are jealous.

[Shakes]

It's not cheating. It would be one thing if you broke out some three by four cards and methodically went through them in front of the customer.

Fifteen questions is over the top annoying. I'd be wanting to choke you at question seven.

[UFC Is Sux]

For the record, I wouldn't call that "cheating" in any way. You did as you were instructed to do, using visual aids to help you. And unless the visual aids were proscribed in your employee manual, then you're golden.

Did the GM say "he's cheating" like he was angry about it, or did he say it lightly like he was making a joke? If the former, then as you say it's only a temporary job anyway. If the latter, then you might have earned yourself enough positive visibility to get a permanent gig. Either way, I wouldn't lose any sleep about it.

[DCnDC]

It's supposed to be impossible?! Meaning that it's been specifically designed for you to fail?

Sounds like it's one of those bullshit corporate things invented by a bunch of people in a meeting room who have never actually worked in one of their own stores. If it was really that important to them, they'd encourage the use of such a list to ensure it was being done correctly. The way they're doing it, it's a pointless, self-defeating exercise.

[Gil-Martin]

How dare you try to be organized and efficient in carrying out your supervisors' directives! :mad:


(I wish there were more "cheaters" in my office.)

[Ellen Cherry]

That is really the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If they didn't know you were using the list until they drilled down and "caught" you at it, why does it matter? You were following instructions! This makes no sense — but the older I get, the more I realize that people are dumbasses and there really often is no explanation.

[kayaker]

1) Greet customer
2) Ask if they found everything OK
3) Ask how they heard of us.
and so forth, till the end,
15) Thank customer and remind them to come back and to shop online.

Fifteen things? Wow. If I go in to make a purchase and am hit with fifteen questions, I would add the store to my list of places to avoid.

[Al Bundy]

No, it is not cheating. I suspect the boss made this comment in jest or off the cuff because he was intrigued by your creativeness. He jumped to "cheating" because he had not thought of it so it must have been cheating. This protects his ego, but deep down he realizes that you found a better way then he did.

Bottom line> I read it as a compliment.

[Rachellelogram]

That's not cheating. They are jealous.
And the GM is dumber than you, much dumber. He's also used to dealing with employees who are even dumber (and/or lazier) than he is. You're not cheating, and he is an idiot. Rest assured.

[Pai325]

Not cheating, and there will be a list like that next to every cash register before you know it. If he was serious in saying that, he is an idiot.

[Prelude to Fascination]

You've got 100% so far--I too say it's not cheating. They have a policy you're supposed to be following it, and you're following it.

Besides, what the hell does the manager mean by "cheating"? You're not doing anything illegal, like embezzling, or committing fraud of some type. You're asking questions, for cryin' out loud. I see your point that you're gone in a week, so this instance doesn't matter, but I can also see why it bugs you. It'd bug me too.

The manager's an idiot. I worked for the same sort years ago, who literally said, "Why should I thank (that employee) for doing his job?" He didn't realize the power of positive reinforcement. Most managers are morons.

[Dahnlor]

People whose job is to ask other people questions almost always use lists. It isn't like it's a college exam. I'd be tempted to ask the GM why they would prefer their employees not to take steps to make sure they remember to do everything they're told to do.

[Muffin]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the opinion of a person whose job it is to enforce the interrogation of customers.

[Hello Again]

When I worked as a bank teller we were required to use such a checklist after graduating from training and starting work in a branch. The checklists made sure you don't forget any steps. After a while you would have the steps for frequent tasks down cold, but I'd always go back to my book of checklists for a job I hadn't done in a while. It's just good sense!

What a dope!

[YogSosoth]

Wow, its the Kobyashi Maru of retail secret shopping!

[garygnu]

In my experience, there is no such thing as "cheating" in the real world. I first applied this concept to art, but it applies to most of the world.

There is stealing, there is lying, there is breaking the law; but any and all shortcuts, mnemonics, workarounds, checklists, etc., are fair game. The end result is the only thing that matters. Frankly I'm surprised they don't provide your checklist to employees already. Checklists are the greatest thing ever.

[lavenderviolet]

And the GM is dumber than you, much dumber. He's also used to dealing with employees who are even dumber (and/or lazier) than he is. You're not cheating, and he is an idiot. Rest assured.

I agree. The OP's approach makes perfect sense, and there is nothing "dishonest" about it, but the GM is enough of an idiot to be threatened by it.
My sympathies on having to work for someone dumber than you. I know how frustrating that can be. Hope you are able to move on to something better.

[Gary T]

If your job is to memorize the 15 questions, it's cheating.

If your job is to ask the 15 questions, it's smart.

[Mrs. Cake]

Be assured that the entire company will be using these checklists at the register soon, and your GM will get the credit.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

No, it is not cheating. I suspect the boss made this comment in jest or off the cuff because he was intrigued by your creativeness. He jumped to "cheating" because he had not thought of it so it must have been cheating. This protects his ego, but deep down he realizes that you found a better way then he did.

Bottom line> I read it as a compliment.
That's my reading--it really sounds like he was joking. He may be one of those people incapable of giving a straight-up compliment, so he did it this way instead.

[panache45]

Fifteen things? Wow. If I go in to make a purchase and am hit with fifteen questions, I would add the store to my list of places to avoid.

This. I don't even like answering 2-3 questions when I'm buying something. Do your customers really stand there while you go through the entire list? What kind of store is this, and do you ever get repeat customers? Good thing you're only there temporarily.

[Rick]

Manager here.
Not cheating. Do you live in So Cal? I can use smart employees.

[robert_columbia]

If your job is to memorize the 15 questions, it's cheating.

If your job is to ask the 15 questions, it's smart.

I recall reading somewhere that one of the ancient Greek philosophers disapproved of mass literacy because he thought that it would impair people's ability to memorize, which was a big thing back then. E.g. "Teach the common person to read? No way, if we do that, they'll just write stuff down instead of really learning it."

[Rigamarole]

Fifteen questions is over the top annoying. I'd be wanting to choke you at question seven.

You're a lot more patient than I am. By the third one I'd have cut them off and walked out the door with my purchases (assuming they were already paid for: if not I would urge them to finish the transaction, then walk out). What the fuck hell kind of retail store asks you 15 questions when you buy something?

[Duckster]

Be assured that the entire company will be using these checklists at the register soon, and your GM will get the credit.

This.

The GM is upset because they couldn't find anything negative in your approach to justify a negative rating. As long as an employee doesn't score 100 percent, they can use that when they want to fire someone, or even rank the ones to be laid off. That way the GM can't play subjective games and claim you missed one or more on the list.

Is this a national chain? Regional?

[PandaBear77]

Not cheating.

Haters gonna hate.

[runner pat]

This.

The GM is upset because they couldn't find anything negative in your approach to justify a negative rating. As long as an employee doesn't score 100 percent, they can use that when they want to fire someone, or even rank the ones to be laid off. That way the GM can't play subjective games and claim you missed one or more on the list.

Is this a national chain? Regional?

They could always downrate him for taking too long with each transaction.

Which wouldn't surprise me in the least. :rolleyes:

[Guinastasia]

Uh oh, looks like you stepped on someone's ego! No, it's not cheating, it's simply a way of reminding yourself of what you're supposed to do. (And I hear you about having to do stupid bullshit that annoys customers. I've been there)

[R. P. McMurphy]

Please tell us the name of the store so that we will never go there.

In reality, the problem probably was that you were not wearing enough "flair".

[Jamodu Green]

You’re cheating in the same way an engineer cheats by looking at blueprints. Seriously, why can’t they just build a bridge by memory?

Do you get a bonus for achieving 100%? Is your boss trying to screw you out of some money?

[BeaMyra]

I am 99% sure what the GM means by this.

We have a retail division and the checkout clerks are shopped and scored. They receive a bonus if they get 100% on their shop.

For people who don't know, retailers use professional shoppers. They come in and have a list of things the store wants you to say and how to act. Then you get graded. Our retail division shops all the check out clerks at least once per month.

Supervisors also watch and make sure you're asking the customers the required question

In our stores, if you get a 100% on a shop you get $25.00 cash.

I would be willing to bet this is what the fuss is about. The OP probably doesn't qualify for any bonus or such as he's only seasonal for the holidays, so his shops don't really matter. It counts for the company in terms of quality control but not for money.

The GM is probably worried the use of a list will spread and that will give more paid outs. This is what he means by cheating and no one gets 100%.

In our company it's not common to pay it out. And I don't know why everyone doesn't get 100% with shoppers as, I've done it and been shopped and it's so obvious to the check out person when you're being shopped, because they act differently and if you're not following the procedure you should realize and switch over ASAP.

As for the list of questions, the OP seems to have a very detailed list for himself. It seems he has 15 steps, not 15 questions, but I could be wrong. I noticed the computer stores and places like Best Buy seem to ask a lot of questions. Especially with warranties and such.

And no it's not cheating, but if someone is getting 100% and there is money involved, that could be a worry if everyone starts doing it.

[Snnipe 70E]

If that is cheating, then I and many others cheat every work day.

I make rounds in two buildings every morning. I check all the equipment to be sure that everything is operating properly. I have made up log sheets to besure I look at everything and to make a record of the conditions that I find.


NO YOU WERE NOT CHEATING you proved yourself extreamly smart. But 15 things it would better if you did forget a few things.

[AndyLee]

Thanks I appreciate the replies. I never thought about getting a bonus for a perfect score. I was going to ask, but if it was true, it'd just make me made.

Since I'm gone at the end of this week, it doesn't matter, but you know how it is.

:)

[purplehorseshoe]

If we PM you will you tell us the name of the store then? Because I seriously do NOT want to go there if at all possible.

[Hampshire]

The good news: It is not cheating and you have a bright future ahead of you in retail management.

The bad news: You do not want a future in retail management.

[Bootis]

There was a sign in the bathroom of a restaurant I went to that said "Employees must wash hands". I figured the GM hadn't yet discovered this blatant cheating (seriously, it was right out in the open!), so I removed it for him.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Your GM is too stupid to breathe, let alone operate a retail outlet.

[Scarlett67]

I would love to see the full list.

[cantara]

GM sounds like a douche...however...I suspect that the questions are supposed to come across as casual conversation than a checklist. It seems that the OP has his cheat-sheet to remind him of the ridiculous number of questions that need to be asked but does not read off it. I would think that the less-smart retail employees may simply end up reading the list to the customers. While I would find having 15 questions asked of me to be annoying I would HATE having a list of questions read to me.

Are employees expected to compile the answers and do something with the results?

[runner pat]

Your GM is too stupid to breathe, let alone operate a retail outlet.

I always thought that was a qualification.

[Muffin]

The good news: It is not cheating and you have a bright future ahead of you in retail management.

The bad news: You do not want a future in retail management.LOL!

[SpoilerVirgin]

The good news: It is not cheating and you have a bright future ahead of you in retail management.The bestselling book The Checklist Manifesto (http://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Manifesto-How-Things-Right/dp/0312430000/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326317514&sr=8-1) is all about the importance of using checklists. Not only are you not cheating, you are on the cutting edge of current thinking.

[kittenblue]

If a retail clerk is really good they can hit all the required questions without the customer knowing there are required questions. We encourage our staff to find their own words to use, so it doesn't sound like they are reading from a list. If you really think about the conversations you've had at check-out stands, you will notice that sometimes it seems like you are having a normal conversation, but you are actually being led down the list. Some companies are more fanatical than others about the dialogue. One store I used to work at part-time had requirements that we be able to explain the features and benefits of each of our products. Which were pieces of chocolate. Their definition of a "feature and benefit" of a chunk of plain milk chocolate was a lot different than mine. One time while my boss was standing off to the side, clipboard in hand, checking things off as I guided a customer through the decision-making process, my mind totally blanked when I tried to tell him the "benefit" of buying the 24-piece box over the 6-piece box...all I could think of was "if you buy the bigger box you are definitely getting laid tonight, with the smaller one it's just a strong possibility".

Fortunately that thought didn't leave my brain.

But I did lose points on that damned clipboard.

[cornflakes]

If you were in sales then those fifteen questions would be called scripting, and it would be considered a good thing.

[Fear Itself]

And no it's not cheating, but if someone is getting 100% and there is money involved, that could be a worry if everyone starts doing it.If the desired behavior increases sales, I would think they would want as many employees as possible to qualify for the pay out. Worrying about the cost of the payouts defeats the purpose of encouraging the behavior. Poor management.

[Asimovian]

And no it's not cheating, but if someone is getting 100% and there is money involved, that could be a worry if everyone starts doing it.So, remove the bonus incentive and give all the employees a list. That way, every customer gets served the way the company claims to want. Done.

[runner pat]

If the desired behavior increases sales, I would think they would want as many employees as possible to qualify for the pay out. Worrying about the cost of the payouts defeats the purpose of encouraging the behavior. Poor management.

But what's the point of extra profit if it's not distributed to the undeserving?

[Fear Itself]

But what's the point of extra profit if it's not distributed to the undeserving?If the increase in sales from the incentive does not exceed the bonus paid out, then it is a bad idea in the first place. Poor management.

[Crown Prince of Irony]

As for the OP, I don't think it's cheating at all. The GM should have either praised you for your dedication, or should have said "Gee whiz, you really need to go through all those questions to do your job? Let's make this more practical, and easier for you and the customer."

I worked hardlines retail for several years - it's absolutely ridiculous the hoops they make you jump through to give the customer what management thinks is a "good experience". Usually it amounts to either fulfilling a corporate checklist or to sell them some extended protection plan that most folks don't buy.

But very few retail mid-level/store managers that I've met have much entry level sales experience - if they do, it was so long ago that they've forgotten what it's like to be on the sales floor. I don't envy anyone who has to sell retail - it's a really thankless job.

[Crown Prince of Irony]

If you were in sales then those fifteen questions would be called scripting, and it would be considered a good thing.

Scripting is only good before you get to the checkout counter, to ensure you guide the customer's selection process to sell them the optimal product that meets their needs. Scripting after the decision is made is a waste of both the clerk's time and the customer's.

A good checkout script is this:
"Thank you for shopping at Big Box Widget Store today. Did you have any questions about the item you're purchasing? (if yes, answer questions/if no, continue). (hand them a business card if you have one) Please call us if you have any questions about the product you just purchased, and ask for me ."

Done and done. The customer leaves with the feeling that you care about their business, and you can get on to the next customer.

[The Great Sun Jester]

And the GM is dumber than you, much dumber. He's also used to dealing with employees who are even dumber (and/or lazier) than he is. And this is the way of the world. Regrettably.