Why wasn't the thread moved?

[bengangmo]

This (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638930&page=4) thread started by Ambivalid was locked.

I don't care enough to start a pit thread, but I am curious as to the absolute refusal to move it.

Threads are moved all the time, discussions evolve and change. The thread saw a suspension and a willingness to pursue other areas of discussion.

While I do admire the efforts to keep it "on track" - what would have been so wrong about allowing a different topic to emerge?

And why should the OP get the say in whether a discussion that has evolved cannot be moved?

And finally - why was the cut curb sideline such a "bad" diversion anyway?

[twickster]

This (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638930&page=4) thread started by Ambivalid was locked.

I don't care enough to start a pit thread, but I am curious as to the absolute refusal to move it.

"Absolute refusal" seems a little strong -- I decided against it, I didn't make a huge case out of it. At least I didn't intend to.

Here's my thinking: Ambivalid indicated a preference that it not be moved. If I had moved it, I would have effectively been forcing him to participate in a Pit thread. I think participation in Pit threads should be optional.

I left open the possibility of someone else starting a Pit thread, if there was a discussion unresolved that would be appropriate there. That person could link back to the MPSIMS thread, as is common. This would leave it up to Ambivalid to decide for himself whether or not he wanted to participate, without curtailing anyone else's rights.

Threads are moved all the time, discussions evolve and change. The thread saw a suspension and a willingness to pursue other areas of discussion.

While I do admire the efforts to keep it "on track" - what would have been so wrong about allowing a different topic to emerge?


There has been a history of threads involving Ambivalid turning into train wrecks. I took that history into account in my efforts to keep that particular thread on track.

Again, if there are other topics people want to discuss, there's nothing to stop them from starting new threads in GD or the Pit as appropriate.

And why should the OP get the say in whether a discussion that has evolved cannot be moved?

He didn't get "the say," he expressed an opinion. I made the decision, taking that opinion into account. Under other circumstances, I might or might not have moved a different thread with a different trajectory involving a different OP to the Pit.

And finally - why was the cut curb sideline such a "bad" diversion anyway?
I didn't say it was a "bad" diversion, I was merely trying to keep all tangents under control in an effort to prevent a train wreck.

Hope this answers your questions.

twickster, MPSIMS moderator

[Omar Little]

Since Ambivalid has expressed a preference that we not move this to the Pit, I won't

If the OP misplaced it in the wrong forum, that's a reason to move it. But Ambivalid started an appropriate thread in the correct forum, and lots of other people drug into the ditch despite moderation to attempt to keep it on track. If the OP had okayed to be moved, thus changing the original intent of the thread, then they may have moved it. I don't see anything wrong with its closing.

[Idle Thoughts]

Many people wanting a thread moved to the pit isn't grounds to move one. It's just as easy for someone to start a Pit thread about a post, posts, or poster that they want to call out. Most of the time it's done that way, with the pitter linking back to the post/topic of their ire.

This is speaking as my opinion as a poster.

[Loach]

Since I have not been around much I guess I missed previous threads with Ambivalid. I have no problem pointing fingers at mods when needed. This seemed like a good piece of moderation and well explained by Twicks.

[Ambivalid]

I appreciate the moderation here and also the decision not to move the thread into the Pit. I have had the misfortune of having that occur before; to have my thread and my discussion de-railed into nothing but snark, sarcasm and hate. I have absolutely no interest in seeing my thread devolve any further in that direction.

[BigT]

I'd appreciate the moderation more if the people who kept hijacking all your threads would get warned for repeated violations of the rules rather than just the thread getting locked. Effectively the mods are letting other people decide what you are allowed to talk about, or, in some cases, that you aren't allowed to talk at all.

It also sucks that the guy who got suspended did so because he was fighting letting those people control the thread. But of course, that's more his fault than anyone else's. There's a reason I just posted a little snark and ran away.

EDIT: Because I knew I wouldn't be able to control myself if I got into an argument. The way Ambivalid is treated, even if I allow for people possibly believing he is a horrible person, really, really upsets me.

[Lord Ashtar]

It also sucks that the guy who got suspended did so because he was fighting letting those people control the thread. But of course, that's more his fault than anyone else's. There's a reason I just posted a little snark and ran away.

The guy who got suspended was NOT fighting against those "trying to control the thread", he was making nonsense arguments about people not believing in parking lots. Do you honestly think he was being helpful?

[the lone cashew]

Someone has opened a thread to vent about a hassle they got into but someone else is complaining that they could not have that thread moved to a different forum for the purpose of attacking and criticizing the thread starter?

Hey bengangmo, how about you get a hobby?

[Drunky Smurf]

When an OP has a history of not telling the whole story in the OP and then later adding details that change the OP then people are going to criticize.

[Czarcasm]

When an OP has a history of not telling the whole story in the OP and then later adding details that change the OP then people are going to criticize.And the reason they were incapable of addressing those concerns in a separate BBQ Pit thread, as they were directed to do so, was...?

[PlainJain]

When an OP has a history of not telling the whole story in the OP and then later adding details that change the OP then people are going to criticize.
That's very true. It's also the reason I stayed out of that thread. But, to drag a thread to the pit just because posters can't control themselves and just to rag on the OP because they don't like him is wrong . If you have a problem with the OP or the thread, man-up and start the pit thread yourself.

I think this board has too much superfluous moderation but in this case the moderation was spot on.

[Lord Ashtar]

And the reason they were incapable of addressing those concerns in a separate BBQ Pit thread, as they were directed to do so, was...?

Because nobody has ever questioned the validity of an OPs story in MPSIMS before. If that forum is only for hugs and people telling the OP what a courageous person they are, let's add that to the forum description and rules so we don't have this as a problem in the future.

[chiroptera]

That's very true. It's also the reason I stayed out of that thread. But, to drag a thread to the pit just because posters can't control themselves and just to rag on the OP because they don't like him is wrong . If you have a problem with the OP or the thread, man-up and start the pit thread yourself.

I think this board has too much superfluous moderation but in this case the moderation was spot on.

Absolutely.

It wasn't as if it was a Pit-worthy thread started in the wrong forum to begin with; all things being equal, it was started by the OP in the appropriate forum. Moving it to the Pit pretty much forces the OP's hand to go there, which presumably wasn't his original intent (although this has happened with at least one of Ambivalid's prior threads.) I agree with twickster's mod action.

Since his threads of this type seem to devolve into squabbling and nitpicking pretty quickly, staying out of them seems to be the most prudent strategy if you have strong feelings one way or another.

[mlees]

Absolutely.

It wasn't as if it was a Pit-worthy thread started in the wrong forum to begin with; all things being equal, it was started by the OP in the appropriate forum. Moving it to the Pit pretty much forces the OP's hand to go there, <snip>

How, exactly, is he forced to go and post? Jackbooted Internet Police?

I don't care about the locking, since it's pretty easy for a member to start a thread in the pit with links.

But if a member wants to control the content of a thread, and not have any negative feedback, maybe they should start their own blog?

[chiroptera]

How, exactly, is he forced to go and post? Jackbooted Internet Police?

?

Well I imagine that someone who starts an "innocent" MPSIMS thread doesn't expect or want to start defending themselves against Pit-type attacks. So moving the thread there would force the OP's hand.

I have no love or sympathy for the OP, to be crystal clear. And perhaps starting a blog instead of posting here with predictable results would be a smarter move. Although maybe it's quite calculated and the OP wants antagonistic responses. I'm not a reader though. He certainly should expect antagonistic responses, given his history. Every such thread he has started has ended up locked, in the Pit, or contentious.

But...he is a member in good standing, so he should certainly be allowed to start potentially contentious threads. And, since this is a privately-run message board, the overlords have every right to control the content.

[FuriousGeorge]

As one of the thread participants, I have no problem at all with the moderation of it.

That being said...

Well I imagine that someone who starts an "innocent" MPSIMS thread doesn't expect or want to start defending themselves against Pit-type attacks.

is extremely naive, especially given the OP's experience, posting history and, by the end of the whole mess, having done exactly what he was being criticized for. I don't see any of the forums here being strictly for kittie huggles and bro-hooves with no room for opposite opinion or criticsm. as a matter of fact skepticism was expressly permitted (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14684857&postcount=62)

[Ambivalid]

I don't have a problem with some well-founded skepticism directed my way; and I do my best to address that criticism in coherent, clear, non-inflammatory ways. However, putting a thread into the Pit changes things entirely. There is no "good faith" discussions or fair arguing going on; it is primarily a slugfest consisting of nothing but disrespectful slams and dishonest mischaracterizations. It is nothing but negative energy that I want no part of. For those who get some degree of satisfaction from those type of threads; have at it. But for threads that I start in other forums, I'd like those threads to remain in their respective forums.

[Fenris]

And the reason they were incapable of addressing those concerns in a separate BBQ Pit thread, as they were directed to do so, was...?

The same reason you asked that silly, snarky-assed question in this thread instead of opening up a new thread in the Pit to ask it. It's all part of the same discussion.

[Fenris]

There's a reason I just posted a little snark and ran away.
Luckily you were mod-noted for it. Again.

EDIT: Because I knew I wouldn't be able to control myself if I got into an argument. The way Ambivalid is treated, even if I allow for people possibly believing he is a horrible person, really, really upsets me.
Perhaps you should stop reading the SDMB if it "really, really upsets you".

[splatterpunk]

I don't have a problem with some well-founded skepticism directed my way; and I do my best to address that criticism in coherent, clear, non-inflammatory ways. However, putting a thread into the Pit changes things entirely. There is no "good faith" discussions or fair arguing going on; it is primarily a slugfest consisting of nothing but disrespectful slams and dishonest mischaracterizations. It is nothing but negative energy that I want no part of. For those who get some degree of satisfaction from those type of threads; have at it. But for threads that I start in other forums, I'd like those threads to remain in their respective forums.

Translation: I want to be able to post the most ridiculous self-aggrandizing crap I can think of and not be subjected to scrutiny. And I should be able to hand wave away any such scrutiny because I'm sick and tired of being caught out at minimizing my role as an instigator in my many tales of alleged discrimination and oppression.

Look, dude. If you want to post in IMHO and MPSIMS, then confine your topics to kitties, rainbows and nipple preferences. Your threads belong in the Pit because they are pit-worthy, whether that's your choice or not. No one here is obligated to give you huggles when your stories are filled with so many implausibilities that people are inclined to yell, "bullshit!"

Man up and own the shit you post.

[Lord Ashtar]

Perhaps you should stop reading the SDMB if it "really, really upsets you".

Give him a break. This board is his life (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12463696&postcount=27), man!

[Cheshire Human]

It also sucks that the guy who got suspended did so because he was fighting letting those people control the thread.

The guy who got suspended did so because he was willfully and repeatedly violating at least 3 rules, by my count. If I were a mod, I would have brought up the possibility of banning with the other mods. He got off lightly.

[Ambivalid]

Translation: I want to be able to post the most ridiculous self-aggrandizing crap I can think of and not be subjected to scrutiny. And I should be able to hand wave away any such scrutiny because I'm sick and tired of being caught out at minimizing my role as an instigator in my many tales of alleged discrimination and oppression.

Look, dude. If you want to post in IMHO and MPSIMS, then confine your topics to kitties, rainbows and nipple preferences. Your threads belong in the Pit because they are pit-worthy, whether that's your choice or not. No one here is obligated to give you huggles when your stories are filled with so many implausibilities that people are inclined to yell, "bullshit!"

Man up and own the shit you post.

OMG. This thread absolutely was not pit worthy. Give it a rest. It was in the appropriate forum. I stand by my account of the story one hundred percent; as I said, the one thing I yelled back in response to his flabbergasting verbal assault is the only thing, the only element whatsoever, to the story that I didn't include originally. And it was only because I didn't find it particularly relevant. This man was angry at me for assuming he wasn't disabled and "being selfish", not calling him an asshole after he (most inappropriately and unexpectedly) called me a rude motherfucker and told me to shut the fuck up. And I did include the detail when I thought of it; if I had any deceit intended with this I would never have included it, period. These "inconsistencies", if that is what you want to call them, are evidence of my poor story telling skills, that's it. Not evidence of dishonest writing.





*it's posts like this that make me want to be in the Pit. Momentarily, that is. Then I get over it.

[PlainJain]

It's true that someone needs to give it a rest...

[Ambivalid]

It's true that someone needs to give it a rest...

? I don't understand. Was this directed at me? For what?

[jjimm]

I was a participant in that thread and I agree with the mod decision. It didn't deserve to end up in the pit.

Ambivalid I do not want you to get assaulted. I think you are an OK guy and generally enjoy reading your posts - but I think you have a severe 'hot button' issue about wheelchair accessibility which makes you act in ways that could be self-defeating. I posted in the faint hope that you would examine your actions to see if you could have acted in a more defensive manner - in that instance and in others.

However, pixie snyx or whoever is someone you really don't want on your side. Nor, indeed, Big T.

[bengangmo]

I'd appreciate the moderation more if the people who kept hijacking all your threads would get warned for repeated violations of the rules rather than just the thread getting locked. Effectively the mods are letting other people decide what you are allowed to talk about, or, in some cases, that you aren't allowed to talk at all.

It also sucks that the guy who got suspended did so because he was fighting letting those people control the thread. But of course, that's more his fault than anyone else's. There's a reason I just posted a little snark and ran away.

EDIT: Because I knew I wouldn't be able to control myself if I got into an argument. The way Ambivalid is treated, even if I allow for people possibly believing he is a horrible person, really, really upsets me.

This was mostly what left me scratching my head, but from the other side - most of what I see here is the that the OP does not have control of a thread once started.

I don't have a problem with the modding per-se, except that the discussion was totally shut down - I thought the discussion could have evolved, OR, if really inappropriate for MPSIMS - then move it. Don't just shut it down when the OP is not getting the sort of love he wants.

And as to starting a pit thread - what would I have been pitting exactly? There was nothing in that thread worthy of pitting. Not Ambivalid's actions, nor any of the other posters, so any pit thread I could have started would have been rather limp wristed.....

And as has been said, if Ambivalid really wants to define and maintain control of the discussion, then start a blog.

Don't start a thread and then define what is within bounds that you are willing to discuss...

[srzss05]

I don't have a problem with the modding per-se, except that the discussion was totally shut down - I thought the discussion could have evolved, OR, if really inappropriate for MPSIMS - then move it. Don't just shut it down when the OP is not getting the sort of love he wants.

Bolding mine, and I disagree. I doubt anymore needed to be said after the initial post and some "poor you" commiserations/validations. After that, either close it or move it. Nothing would be forcing the OP to "defend himself" in the pit if it got moved; he could just ignore it. Locking it would do the same thing as far as he is concerned, as he really didn't add anything* after the initial post other than to try defend himself.

*and really didn't need to add anything, as the way I see it he was just venting to begin with

[Cicero]

Splatterpunk (awesome name) probably does have a point. However.... I don't think a thread should be moved for similar facts. People should ignore it or pit it.


And Twicks - take a bow. You did well.

[Hbns]

Bolding mine, and I disagree. I doubt anymore needed to be said after the initial post and some "poor you" commiserations/validations.
I'm fine with it not being moved. I am a bit bothered that the discussion was shut down. There were several open points left dangling, including why I thought not including the fact it was raining in the OP was an important omission (it totally changes the scene and lends support to Ambivalid's lack of patience). However, I can also see that it would have been difficult to drag it back on track.

[Ambivalid]

This was mostly what left me scratching my head, but from the other side - most of what I see here is the that the OP does not have control of a thread once started.

I don't have a problem with the modding per-se, except that the discussion was totally shut down - I thought the discussion could have evolved, OR, if really inappropriate for MPSIMS - then move it. Don't just shut it down when the OP is not getting the sort of love he wants.

And as to starting a pit thread - what would I have been pitting exactly? There was nothing in that thread worthy of pitting. Not Ambivalid's actions, nor any of the other posters, so any pit thread I could have started would have been rather limp wristed.....

And as has been said, if Ambivalid really wants to define and maintain control of the discussion, then start a blog.

Don't start a thread and then define what is within bounds that you are willing to discuss...

(Bolding mine)

I absolutely, positively did not start this thread and try to define what is in bounds as far discussions are concerned. That is preposterous. Quite the opposite; I said I am willing to discuss and respond to any respectful, in-good-faith criticism at all times. I enjoy heated discussions. However, I do not enjoy personal attacks and disrespectful, disparaging slams which are the hallmark of Pit threads. That is all I was protesting: moving my thread to the Pit.

[Ambivalid]

I was a participant in that thread and I agree with the mod decision. It didn't deserve to end up in the pit.

Ambivalid I do not want you to get assaulted. I think you are an OK guy and generally enjoy reading your posts - but I think you have a severe 'hot button' issue about wheelchair accessibility which makes you act in ways that could be self-defeating. I posted in the faint hope that you would examine your actions to see if you could have acted in a more defensive manner - in that instance and in others.

However, pixie snyx or whoever is someone you really don't want on your side. Nor, indeed, Big T.

I know this is neither here nor there but since you brought it up in that thread I wanted to say this: that woman parked in the handicapped spot in the RiteAid parking lot who I asked about her permit (or lack therof) was parked in a handicapped spot with absolutely no placard/permit on display at all. All I did was ask her about that. I feel like I did the right thing. This was a woman, walking seemingly totally fine, leaving her car parked in a handicapped spot with no placard or ID. This is a textbook example of when it IS appropriate for someone like me to ask a person like that about their lack of necessary permit.

[twickster]

People, we're in ATMB. Attacks on each other and on each other's posting history are out of place, as are substantive matters already dealt with or not in other threads. The issue here is why a particular mod handled a particular matter in a particular way, not anyone else's behavior in that thread or others.

twickster, for the SDMB