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GeddyClaypoolBurton
02-05-2012, 04:25 PM
How I Became a Secular Humanist/Atheist - Improved Formatting
Recently I was thinking about how I became a secular humanist and an atheist. When I was growing up, I never went to church, but my mom always told me to say my prayers before I went to sleep ("Now I lay me down to sleep..."). I always had a fascination with science, and I still love to watch shows like NOVA and The Universe. Eventually, as I was watching the shows regarding the earth's formation and human evolution, I began to wonder, "Where does Jesus come into all this? It doesn't look like he was necessary at all." In school, I was always fascinated by other religions, and one day I asked my dad, "How is Christianity any better than other religions?" He replied, "It isn't". As I grew older, I learned that my dad had been a nonbeliever since he was a teenager. I did my research, and every time I found some website trying to say how Christianity is the only true religion, I was never convinced. The most common explanation was how Jesus fulfilled so many prophecies as predicted prior to his appearance in the Bible. I found a pretty good counterargument that stated that Jesus would have been well-versed in the old testament, and may have made it so that everything he did was in line with the supposed prophecies.

One of the other factors that I never understood was "sin". I came to realize that the God that I prayed to at my bedside was not at all how the God of the Bible is. I later found out that the type of God that I believed in was more in line with Deism, in which God was simply the prime mover that sparked the Big Bang, after which everything according to science (including the formation of earth and biological evolution over billions of years) took place. When I found out that the entire idea of Jesus Christ being a "savior" was because Adam and Eve had eaten from a magical tree of knowledge and brought death (real and spiritual) to the world, I thought to myself, "wait a minute". There was no such thing as two humans being created directly by God; man evolved from lower species over a very long time. It was at this point that I found out that many Christians thought that the world was only 6,000 years old, as opposed to 4.6 billion, which I had always known to be true. I felt really sick at this point, and I began a period of mass research into creationism, watching several debates between evolutionists and creationists; and every time the creationist would be defeated, and I realized that while scientists work with an open mind and skeptical behavior, creationists are simply attempting to further their religious beliefs and don't care about evidence or real knowledge. My acceptance of biologial evolution and of the age of the earth was reaffirmed and strengthened, and though I have seen many attempts to disprove both, none have ever been convincing, and never stand up to scrutiny from the scientific community.

While I was studying the scientific nature of the Christian concept of God, I was simultaneously studying the moral aspects of it. What I realized was that the God of the Bible was a monster. The initial realization came while reading about the Noachian Flood. Here is an omniscient, omnipotent God that knows everything past, present, and future. Here is a God who knew that the pre-Flood peoples would become "wicked" before he created them, and who knew that they were all (all: as in, every man, woman, and infant child) going to painfully and terrifyingly die by drowning, and yet he created them anyway. Just to have them all wiped out. Among other stories was the tale of the plagues of Egypt. As the tenth plague, rather than punishing the pharaoh himself, he kills the pharaoh’s child, who had himself done nothing wrong to the Hebrews. And not only does God kill the pharaoh’s child, but every single firstborn in ALL of Egypt. Children. God killed innocent children who had themselves done nothing wrong, and who could not understand in their youth what was going on with the Hebrews. Undoubtedly some of those firstborn children were infants. God was an infanticidal maniac. He could have done anything to convince the pharaoh, and yet he decided to kill his little boy. Finally, again I realized that here was an omniscient, omnipotent God who knows everything that is going to happen before it happens, and who creates all souls, and yet he made the children of Egypt knowing fully well that they were going to die.

To go even farther back, God created the Egyptians knowing that they would eventually no longer worship him, and would therefore be punished. Even after the Hebrews are free, God is still monstrous to even his own "chosen people". After the Israelites become doubtful of Moses' return from Mt. Sinai after going to receive the Ten Commandments, they build a Golden Calf as an idol to worship. God is omniscient and omnipotent, and knows they are going to do this. When God tells Moses to have all who are loyal to him (God) to stand by Moses, only the Levites come to Moses' side. Then God commands for all the other Hebrews to be killed. The vast majority of God's chosen people were put to death, and even before God led them out of Egypt, he knew that they were going to betray him, he knew they would not come back to him, and he knew that they would all suffer painful deaths......and he created them anyway. Just to be exterminated. But the most horrific realization came to me when I considered the billions of people on Earth who didn't believe in God and Jesus, and instead had different beliefs. According to the Bible, all people have souls created by God, including those of other faiths. I then realized that God has created billions of souls throughout history who have defied him or never believed in Him, and therefore are sent to exist forever in eternal damnation. All those people, who God knew would never worship him, and would therefore suffer forever, and yet he created them anyway, knowing the unimaginable horrors that they would face as a result of their defiance towards him, which he was aware would happen from the start. I nearly cried at the idea of such a cruel being as Yahweh, and I was glad that I realized that he doesn't exist.

Sometime later, I had stopped praying when I went to bed at night, knowing that I was just talking to myself. I declared myself to be a humanist, though I had pretty much been one before in all but name. I must note that I am an atheist in the sense that Richard Dawkins is. I don't know for absolute certainty but I think any God is very improbable, and I live my life with the idea that he is not there; the same way I live my life on the assumption that the magical dancing leprechaun that only my little brother can see when he looks out the window towards my backyard at 3:32 A.M. sharp, is not there. I developed a greater appreciation for life and for the wonders of the universe, and through reading the scientific works of people like Carl Sagan, I felt a greater sense of fulfillment and happiness in me then I could have ever imagined with any form of religion. I am as important to the Universe as a single quark in a single atom in a single grain of sand on a beach the size of a blue giant sun, and yet I couldn't be more content. This speck of dust likes what he sees when he looks up in the sky, knowing that he is made of star stuff, and is, in a sense, a way for the universe to observe itself. I know that when I die, my body will remain and its matter will transform, but "I" (the electro pulses in my brain that make up my mind) will be forever gone. That doesn't bother me. I am just happy of the opportunity I have to learn so many things about existence. The universe truly is a beautiful place, and I only wish more people understood the grandeur of reality. For me, just like for Carl Sagan, "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thank you for reading my memoir. If you have any similar experiences, please do tell in the response section. I hope you all have wonderful, fulfilling lives.
Sincerely Yours,
Geddy Claypool Burton

Inner Stickler
02-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Well, I grew up in an extremely liberal but extremely Catholic family on both sides. I went to parochial school for all 12 years and graduated from a Catholic university. I received all the sacraments and was a top notch altar server. In high school, I did very well in all my classes but especially religion, and everyone told me I should enter the priesthood and that I would be a wonderful priest. Of course, this was as the child abuse scandals were breaking and the hierarchy did a sweep of their seminaries and eliminated all the gays.

I had known since about 5th grade that I was not attracted to women and it didn't help that I stumbled across a small poster of the ten commandments in an unused classroom that listed various things that were considered breaking the commandments. Under Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery was homosexuality. Not homosexual acts, just homosexuality. That, of course made me feel even better about myself. I didn't tell anyone how I felt because, well at first I didn't know that I should and by the time I realized that my parents wouldn't care it seemed like it was too late. At any rate, it seemed very clear that Catholicism didn't want me.

So I revised my opinion of God into an amorphous concept of Love and decided on an extremely pluralistic worldview that didn't need organized religion. And that served me well for several years where I considered myself spiritual but not religious and felt very enlightened.

Finally, after reading several books like God Is Not Great and The God Delusion, along with honing logical thinking abilities here and on other websites, I decided the evidence for the existence of god was low enough I could rule out that possibility so I cautiously said I was an atheist and when the sky didn't fall or the oceans boil and I discovered I was happier not spending lots of time trying to appease an invisible omnipotent being who had, as far as I could see, set me up to fail sexually speaking, So I changed my facebook religious views to Atheist and haven't looked back since.

gracer
02-05-2012, 06:02 PM
This is what my grandmother tells me:

I was nearly 4 years old, and she was visiting us on the continent. She was driving a Dutch car (wheel & stick on the wrong side) in Antwerp (driving on the wrong side). It was 11 at night, and it was the two of us together. She thought I was asleep in the back, when, just as she was trying to navigate a treacherous roundabout, I said: "Granny, how can anyone know god exists, if nobody has ever seen him?"

She had to stop the car. She explained that nobody can know, but some people just have faith. I said I didn't. And that was that.

My grandmother wrote it into a poem for my 18th birthday. She's amazing :)

twickster
02-05-2012, 06:04 PM
Moved MPSIMS --> GD -- without, I'll admit, reading more than a dozen or so words of it.

Lobohan
02-05-2012, 06:27 PM
Protip for OP: Most people use an additional space between paragraphs to visually break them up. This increases readability and make it more likely someone will read your post without throwing up a tl;dr.

Ontopic: I became an atheist when I really thought about it. How utterly bereft of evidence the theism side was shocked me.

Lanzy
02-05-2012, 06:37 PM
WALL O WORDS!!!!

I can't read posts like this. Atheists can do better.

Novelty Bobble
02-05-2012, 06:40 PM
I can't honestly remember a time when I believed in god. (I can remember believing in Santa though)

I went to a CofE church as most people did and we did the religious assembly and prayers thing but it was never hard-core and none of it was particularly interesting. There again there was never any real mention of religion at home either. To this day I've never asked my dad what his thoughts are on religion, it has never come up. My mother died nearly 20 years ago and I don't actually know what religion she was, she might have been methodist but I was christened CofE. Who knows?

Anyway, I always have been secular and atheist because there has been no convincing reason to do otherwise.

Measure for Measure
02-05-2012, 07:02 PM
Next up: How I discovered the carriage return and learned to love it.

Trinopus
02-05-2012, 07:03 PM
I was never taught religion as a child, and so grew up in a "natural state" of atheism. i.e., never went to church, never taught from the Bible, never even saw a TV preacher until I was a teenager.

I read the big coffee-table book, "The World's Great Religions" as a child, and didn't get it. It didn't make a half-ounce of sense to me. Totally alien to my thinking.

In grade school, a bunch of (ha ha) Christians beat the shit out of me for my questioning God. All out hammering.

This turned me into an angry atheist, a church-hater. I never committed arson, but I did once cut down a hill-top cross.

Later, in a BBS discussion group very much like this one, a good Christian, one of the best men I've ever known (and never actually met) took the time and had the patience to talk me through my hatred. I will always love him for it.

So...now...I'm a very firm atheist...but I've put the hatred behind me. It was foolish, and hurtful. And, in fact, the one it hurt was mostly me!

drewtwo99
02-05-2012, 07:17 PM
This thread has convinced me to be an athiest. A benevolent God would never allow such walls of text.

Inner Stickler
02-05-2012, 07:24 PM
Yes, you're all very bright to recognize that the OP isn't separated into paragraphs. Do you have legitimate commentary to make or are you just going to take shallow potshots about style instead of substance?

Ca3799
02-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Well, it certainly seems as though you've done your homework!

I was not raised in a religious tradition, so did not have to bother with all that angst. The world is way less scary and way more awesome without all that BS.

GeddyClaypoolBurton
02-05-2012, 07:54 PM
My apologies to everyone for the "wall'o'words". :eek: I realized how sloppy it looked, but when I went back to edit it, I was notified that I couldn't edit the thread again (I had previously corrected some spelling errors). To those who read it, thank you. The responses it has generated are quite interesting. To those complaining about the lack of separation into paragraphs, again I offer my apologies, and ask for you to please read it anyway if you don't mind. Thank you all! :D

gunnergoz
02-05-2012, 07:54 PM
I was raised in the Italian Catholic church. The masses were in Latin back then. When my family traveled to America, I took comfort in the Latin masses there. Then, one day, the Pope decided that everyone could do masses in the vernacular (local language) and that guitars, singing and hand holding were to be introduced. I didn't give anyone permission to mess with "my" church and I realized that the church was simply what popes and bishops decided it would be.

Having questioned that issue, it did not take long for life to deliver lessons. My father died painfully of cancer and my mother of a stroke after suffering a year. Experiencing those losses, I next questioned whether there was even a god or an afterlife. I decided that there probably was not because, the more I read of Christianity's historic origins, the more I realized it was all a big con put together by church leaders over the centuries. What's more, study confirmed that there were opposing cabals of church leaders, each group trying to impose its interpretation of history and religion on the other, and all of them vying for control of the masses, with their contribution baskets.

Now I think this is pretty much true of all organized religions - they are an effort by a few to take advantage of the many, who desperately need to find a cause and effect to explain life's ups and downs.

My 2 bits, your mileage may vary.

jjimm
02-05-2012, 08:05 PM
This thread has convinced me to be an athiest. A benevolent God would never allow such walls of text.Paragraphs are against his religion.

Bryan Ekers
02-05-2012, 10:57 PM
Jesus may return, but the carriage won't.

GeddyClaypoolBurton
02-06-2012, 02:30 AM
Jesus may return, but the carriage won't.

Sorry, but what does that mean exactly?

Telemark
02-06-2012, 05:56 AM
Sorry, but what does that mean exactly?

Carriage Returns are used at the end of a paragraph.

Gyrate
02-06-2012, 06:50 AM
Carriage Returns are used at the end of a paragraph.Ah, typewriters. Remember typewriters? They were neat.

I grew up in a secular household. We did the secular Easter/Christmas things but never went to church or talked about religion at all ever. It just didn't come up. I've done a lot of religious reading over the years including the entirety of the Bible (and wowzers, Numbers and Leviticus are boooooooooring) but ultimately it seemed to me that if you don't start from the standpoint of "the religion I grew up with is the default to be disproved" there's no particular impetus for selecting any one religion over another.

not what you'd expect
02-06-2012, 08:37 AM
My mothers side of the family had a catholic background and my fathers side had a southern baptist background. So I was subjected to a couple of different views, neither of which ever really made a lot of sense to my young mind. I can remember suffering a lot of emotional pain because of my lack of faith. I recall asking a young Christian women how I would know when I was saved and she told me I would just feel it. I just had to pray harder and more often. I felt like there was something wrong with me because I never felt anything, no matter how hard I tried.

My step mother read the bible out loud to all of us every night after dinner. Man, that scared the crap out of me, even though I didn't understand most of what she read. All the thee's and thou's and smiting and what have you just confused me. I damn near had a panic attack when I watched the astronauts land on the moon because I had understood the bible to say that God would crush the earth when man tried to reach the heavens. I can remember asking my catholic grandmother where god came from and she looked like someone possessed when she told me to "Never Question God!"

So I quit asking questions for a long time. But every time something bad happened in my life, I would drag out a bible and look for help there, only to be disappointed again when I just didn't feel that magical something I kept being told I'd feel. I wanted faith in the worst way.

I finally resolved to read the bible from beginning to end, even though every Christian I spoke to
advised me to ignore the old testament and only read the new. That felt wrong to me. So I started reading and whenever I could not understand something, I would look it up on the internet. That's how I found this board.

I couldn't get past Daniel or Judges, one of those. I was completely disgusted. I don't understand how anyone can believe the utter nonsense in that book. I can't understand why anyone would even want to believe it. The god described is a right bastard. And heaven sounds terrible. No sex, no food, no spouses. It doesn't resemble life as we know it in the least, so what's the point?

These days, I'm pretty much an atheist, though I still have a small twinge when I admit that to myself since the idea of hell is pretty damn scary. My family was not worldly or sophisticated in any way shape or form. The bible was pretty much the only book in our house. As far as I know, I'm the only one in my family that doesn't believe. This is not a fun place to be either, so I keep my thoughts to myself. Mostly. I want to come out to my family, but I have little doubt that I will face enormous pressure to return to the fold.

I'm still making peace with my new reality. Parents, please don't pound that junk into your young child's head.

tomndebb
02-06-2012, 10:37 AM
No debate has developed, here, so I am sending this on to In My Humble Opinion.

PandaBear77
02-06-2012, 01:13 PM
Tl, dr

Voyager
02-06-2012, 01:53 PM
Carriage Returns are used at the end of a paragraph.

At the end of lines, actually, back in the good old days when your typewriter wouldn't insert them for you. I started on typewriters with handles where you had to return the carriage manually. A pain, but it worked find when the power failed.

Voyager
02-06-2012, 02:01 PM
As for the OP, I went to Hebrew School so I could get bar mitzvahed and get presents, but I actually enjoyed it enough to go to services I didn't have to go to. As I grew past that I lost interest, but still believed, because I saw no reason to think God didn't give the Torah to Moses and that King David (my favorite) wasn't just like the Bible said. Then in my senior year of high school I worked in the English Department book room, which had a stack of Bibles for the Bible as literature unit. It had an introduction explaining the current research on the three authors of the Bible, and how the different stories got edited together. All the nonsense and contradictions which I had been ignoring for years immediately became clear. Maybe it helped that I grew up being taught that the Bible that most people believed in, the NT, was bushwah, so doubting one more was not hard.
In grad school I participated in an online forum - in 1975 - and read and commented on the whole thing. Reading the naughty bits that most religious leaders try to skip over really enforced by atheism.

That was almost 40 years ago, and I've never regretted it. Got married in the Ethical Culture Society, nice hall, nice ceremony, and purely secular, and raised two brilliant atheist kids.

Shirley Ujest
02-06-2012, 05:16 PM
This thread has convinced me to be an athiest. A benevolent God would never allow such walls of text.

Ramen!

Shirley Ujest
02-06-2012, 05:28 PM
At the end of lines, actually, back in the good old days when your typewriter wouldn't insert them for you. I started on typewriters with handles where you had to return the carriage manually. A pain, but it worked find when the power failed.

Typewriters was how we use to 'communicate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_Z1mwTHd3E)' to each other in the 'old days'. Using papyrus and something very magical called Wite Out. Teachers 'hated' 'Wite Out'. You could bang out a single spaced wall of word, 27 pages of The History of the Toothpick for Mr. Snodgrass' class without the aid of something called Wikipedia on an Old Smith Corona that rocked the desk like a traumatized child and kept your room mate or sibling(s) up until the wee hours listening to the incessant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAtmvtmt0fQ) tapping that was purely fuelled by caffeine and desperation.

And sometimes, when someone was talking to you during your wall of words, you'd type that into the paper and then you would have to rip it all out and start all over again, right after you beat the shit out of the person and have a good screaming rant like a street corner prophet on the idiot who just asked you where the cat was.


God, I miss those days.






/goml

snowthx
02-06-2012, 05:39 PM
If this thread is any indicator, it seems atheists predominantly rise from the Christian faiths. Are there any doper experiences going to atheism from other faiths, such as Judaism? Why is that?

smaje1
02-06-2012, 06:04 PM
I realized -- or rather, admitted to myself -- just this past summer that I didn't believe in Jesus and God. It was a slow realization. It was very difficult for me for a few months to not say my prayers (in my head) before I fell asleep. I had prayed every night while I was pregnant with my child, and I felt guilty about quitting prayer right after my healthy, beautiful daughter was born.

But I realized it was just guilt. Jesus was not going to smite me. By denying the existence of God (or to be more precise, the Roman Catholic God), I took away any and all power I might have ascribed him.

I do believe there's something out there that's larger than all of us, but I have no idea what that is. Maybe I'll find out one day, but I won't hold my breath. I don't think it's for me to know. ;)

Voyager
02-06-2012, 11:25 PM
If this thread is any indicator, it seems atheists predominantly rise from the Christian faiths. Are there any doper experiences going to atheism from other faiths, such as Judaism? Why is that?

See post 24.

IntelliQ
02-08-2012, 07:09 PM
At age 7-ish I witnessed a member flailing about stage speaking in tongues, 5 minutes later we were outside riding horses and throwing water balloons at clowns amid spontaneous "Hallelujahs". That's how the nightmares started.

After a few years of that, my mom switched me to a Lutheran church where I had Catechism, lit candles wearing a robe, did Christmas plays, and played piano for church recitals. That was a little more "normal" I guess but still creepy.

On to the reason why I do not believe in any deity as proposed by popular religions - it's because even as a kid I knew bs when I heard it. Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc......might as well just gather together and revive Greek mythology to yield the same arguments, same lack of proof, same lack of logic, same fantastical stories and scare everyone into thinking they better be on their toes or reap horrific eternal punishment.

(Aside: Even though I havent felt him, doesnt mean I still havent TRIED. I've had my bouts of serious reflection, serious depression while crying aloud for help to "Him". I've stared among the stars and begged. I've laid in bed and stared upward asking with my heart to feel him. I was sincere. I opened my heart to it and ended up becoming even more depressed that I was alone while everyone else gets to feel Him in their hearts. So I reject the notion that we dont feel God because we dont go to him. That's code for you didnt brainwash yourself good enough.)

The best possible positive spin is that if a God exists, he amounts to a deadbeat dad.