Goddammit (Warhammer 40K)

[CandidGamera]

After I got out of Magic : The Spendening, I thought I was done with expensive, competitive nerd-hobbies. But one of the guys in my D&D group who also plays Warhammer was showing me some of his newest painted work, and I remarked (as I often have) how I'm sometimes tempted, and he pointed out what a comparatively good deal that 'Assault on Black Reach' was, at $100, compared to most 40K sets.

And the game store had it in stock. And I suffer from poor impulse control sometimes, when it comes to buying things.

Goddammit.

Well, maybe I won't like the game and will be able to avoid spending more. But I probably should pick a Space Marine chapter, just in case..

[FinnAgain]

The game is fun, but yah, extremely expensive. SMurfs are a good starting point as they're fairly forgiving.

[Kobal2]

Eldar, Chaos and I believe Necrons are also low model count armies. Stay away from Orks, 'nids and Imperial Guard if you know what's good for your wallet :)

[FinnAgain]

However, 'nids are a hell of a lot of fun to play and especially to convert. My flying Hive Tyrant with a clay-rock pile base was a joy to create.
(Of course, the newer edition made the mods I've got for him mostly worthless. Thank goodness for neodymium.)

[CandidGamera]

Yeah, honestly, if I had an infinite budget? I'd be playing Imperial Guard. But I suppose Space Marines have some cool shiny vehicles, too.

So how many chapters of Space Marines have playable rules?

[FinnAgain]

Hrm... Black Templars have their own codex. Pretty sure that the Space Wolves also have got a current 'dex.

[CandidGamera]

Hrm... Black Templars have their own codex. Pretty sure that the Space Wolves also have got a current 'dex.

And I understand the main Space Marine book covers several chapters?

[Ludovic]

The good thing about Space Marines is you can get away with using other Chapter rulebooks moreso than with other races. For instance, very few people are gonna buy it if you use Orks with the Necron rules unless you mod them extremely well. Whereas if you want to play a Chapter of your own devising using the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codices, no one will stop you. Heck, you could even use Ultramarines for that purpose and just say "hey, this Chapter coincidentally looks like the Ultramarines, but they're a lost offshoot that was stranded on a feral world for millennia and so fights more like the Space Wolves" and some people would even be okay with that.

For this purpose I'd recommend Blood Angels and Space Wolves. The regular Space Marine and Black Templar codices are some of the weakest extant codices. For instance, you can take a generic Ultramarine army and create the exact equivalent of it with the Blood Angels and Space Wolves and it will just simply be better, even at doing things that the Ultramarines focus on like long- and medium-range fire. Even when you specialize an Ultramarines army with special characters, it's only about as good as a non-specialized Blangels or Space Puppies army. And of course you can specialize the Blangels or Pups.

So long story short, if you're thinking of using the Space Marine codex, you should look at using the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codex instead, even if you will be fighting in the Ultramarine style of combat, because it's difficult to play the Space Marines codex well* as a beginning player since their codex is so old and weak.

*That said, since they are Space Marines after all, it's easy for a beginning player to play them average-ly. I.e. they're more forgiving than the Dark Eldar.

[CandidGamera]

Space Wolves and Blood Angels, eh?

Is there a site that actually compares the strengths and weaknesses of the different Warhammer forces side by side? I did a little casual googling yesterday and didn't find much.

[Ludovic]

Not a strongly agreed-upon site. Even the most popular sites have some boners that are roundly dismissed by the larger community. So take everything, even what I say, with a huge lump of Arcturian salt.

[CandidGamera]

Fair enough. do Orks have tribes or anything that give them variation in abilities / unit lists like the SMs?

[Ludovic]

All tribes use the same Ork Codex, and some characters allow small variations on the standard Ork list. However, the standard Ork list is pretty flexible and forgiving by itself: there are only a few units that really suck, so you can customize your army's character within the Ork Codex pretty well.

The exception to the relative lack of tribal character is if you take Wazdakka which lets you take hordes of Ork Bikers instead of Boyz.

[Kobal2]

Yes and no.
There are six big "Klans" of Orks in the fluff (seven if you count Freebooters), but they typically don't have their own rules (or at least they didn't back in my day).

For them it sort of works the other way around: depending on your force composition you'll claim your Orks are of this or that Klan (or even mix 'n match, Orks are not especially hung up about doctrine. Or hygiene. Or anything). Like for example if you build an army with lots and lots of bikes, you're probably going to paint them red with Evil Sunz markings. If you rely on tons of heavy weapons, they're probably Bad Moonz or Deffskullz. If your main strategy is wall-to-wall boyz with axes and pistols charging under the cover of a gazillion gretchins, they might be Goffs or Snakebites. And so forth. Not that there's anything wrong with claiming a bike army as Goffs, though - as I said, Orkish fuck-giving is in the low single digits.

That being said, I played second and third edition Wh40K and I understand they're up to seventh now so what the hell do I know ? :p

[CandidGamera]

Cool. Absent any other reliable info as to what the strengths and weaknesses are, I think I may go with Blood Angels, because they're red and I like red.

[FinnAgain]

Blood angels are first rate assault specialists and their Furioso Pattern dreadnaughts are pretty fucking awesome when it comes to close in assaults. They also have a special pattern Predator which fits an assault cannon (at least, I think it's them). If you're not big on assaulting, they may not be for you.

[Grumman]

There are currently seven officially supported sets of Space Marine rules:

Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Grey Knights

and from 4th edition:
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Dark Angels

Of the newest four, Codex: Space Marines is probably the most balanced. Blood Angels get faster vehicles and lots of troops with jump packs. Space Wolves replace pretty much all squads with similar units, some of which are rather undercosted. Grey Knights are made up entirely of squads of psychers with storm bolters and force weapons.

[CandidGamera]

Blood angels are first rate assault specialists and their Furioso Pattern dreadnaughts are pretty fucking awesome when it comes to close in assaults. They also have a special pattern Predator which fits an assault cannon (at least, I think it's them). If you're not big on assaulting, they may not be for you.

I have no idea whether or not I'm big on assaulting. But they are red.

I ordered the Ork, Blood Angel, and Space Marine Codexes (Codices?) from GW just a few minutes ago, so I'll compare and contrast Blood Angels and the generic one before I make a painting decision or buy any other minis.

[FinnAgain]

Well, you can paint your SMurfs red if you want to as long as they're not one of the specialist chapters with their own rules.

[Kobal2]

Yeah, GW's fluff was specifically tailored to let people come up with their own SM chapters, with whatever paint job they want.
Basically, 2 out of the original 20 primarchs have either never been found, or all records of them have been purged. Since each of the original 20 Legions were then broken into tons of individual Chapters (except those that turned to Chaos of course), that leaves a lot of room for Fuschia Marines.

[smiling bandit]

I admit that I wanted to play, and was really interested in the Inquisition. Howecver, they kinda rolled the Inquisition into the Grey Knights for some insane reason, mostly ignore them anyway, and turned the Sisters of Battle in a pathetically limited mini-army that's not worth my time. Maybe I'll look at Chaos Marines someday.

[FinnAgain]

There's a codex somewhere or other for kitting out an inquisitor with a full retinue and a bunch of units. Don't remember which edition it was, however.

[Súil Dubh]

Yeah, honestly, if I had an infinite budget? I'd be playing Imperial Guard. But I suppose Space Marines have some cool shiny vehicles, too.

If you don't mind using miniatures from other companies, there are several cheap alternatives to Games Workshop. The quality of the products is usually reflected in the price, so the cheaper you go, the worse the sculpts tend to be. Still, unofficial figures (proxies) work well for the gamer on a budget.

And because some of these miniatures are so inexpensive, you can be a little more experimental when assembling, converting, and painting them. If you make a mistake on a model it's much less of a loss than when working with one from Games Workshop.

For the record, I use both official Games Workshop miniatures, and proxies. I'm lucky in that my friends don't care which models we use. Another problem with proxies is that you can't use them in a Games Workshop store or event.

Anyhow, from cheapest to more expensive:

http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Science_Fiction.html

http://wargamesfactory.com/webstore/alien-suns

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath.html

Also, an excellent blog with news about recent releases from all miniature manufacturers:

http://ttfix.blogspot.com/

[Sierra Indigo]

Yeah, GW's fluff was specifically tailored to let people come up with their own SM chapters, with whatever paint job they want.
Basically, 2 out of the original 20 primarchs have either never been found, or all records of them have been purged. Since each of the original 20 Legions were then broken into tons of individual Chapters (except those that turned to Chaos of course), that leaves a lot of room for Fuschia Marines.

[Fluffmode Activate]

Not Space Wolves. For one, they pretty much told Rawbutt Girlyman where he could stick his Codex Astartes when it came to breaking down the Legion into chapters (though they are now much under strength compared to what they were during the Heresy), and for second there's only been one canonical Space Wolves successor chapter, the Wolf Brothers, and they were disbanded due to genetic instability. The Canis Helix makes the Space Wolves geneseed particularly unsuitable for succession.

The two missing Primarchs are fluffed out to have been purged as well. At least one of the two was purged by the Space Wolves, that's where their reputation as the Emperor's attack-dogs first was cemented, and why they were tapped to take on the Thousand Sons after Magnus flouted the rulings of the Edict of Nikea.

[FinnAgain]

They were also chosen because there was personal bad blood between them and the Wolves had their own psykers in their ranks.

[Sierra Indigo]

To get really into it all, they were told by the Emperor to go and bring Magnus to account. But his intention was simply for Russ to bring Magnus to Terra to explain his actions. Russ disliked Magnus due to an argument they'd gotten into in a prior engagement, and the Rout took issue with their use of and heavy reliance on psykers, but they weren't actively hostile to each other, yet.

These orders were routed via Horus, however, before the Heresy was actually revealed and through the machinations of Erebus/Lorgar and the Chaos powers, the orders actually put forward to Russ were not "bring him in" but "destroy them all".

This ultimately was Tzeentch's "Just As Planned" moment - Magnus was utterly destroyed, not only by his own hubris but (literally) was thrown to the Wolves ostensibly by his own father. He was driven from the Emperor's side, and in a final moment of desperation forced to throw his lot in with the Ruinous Powers in order to prevent the destruction of everything he'd worked towards in his whole life.

[Kobal2]

And then Leman Russ picked up his sword, gun and presumably a hefty supply of beer ; hopped on a spaceship and set coordinates to the heart of the Eye of Terror to go and find that rat bastard on his own, because nobody was übermensch enough for the job. Maybe kill of the Chaos gods while he's at it.

He'll come back someday. He said he would.

[Sierra Indigo]

We'll see Russ again in the Wolftime :D

[Love Rhombus]

I clearly would be no good at Warhammer, since I would have chosen the Salamanders. a) they get flame guns and b) they seem the most compassionate of the Space Marines. Or possibly the Storm Giants, even though they're pretty obscure, just because I like the name.

[Sierra Indigo]

The Salamanders are totally bro-tier as Astartes go.

Don't underestimate the effect of a good flame weapon. My DeathWatch (Warhammer 40k RP) kill-team's Apothecary (healer) was a Salamander successor chapter marine. He was also our flame weapon specialist. Onock (Salamander) and Magni (My Space Wolf Assault Marine) were total bros. Back-to-back in 'nid hordes, Magni would be belting around him with a chainsword while Onock was flammen werfering with his flame pistol. Hordes went down.

[GreedySmurf]

Just skip past the whole 40k thing and go straight to GW's best game - Bloodbowl. Not only is it a better game but it's cheaper to. You can pick up a team for 50-60 bucks.

[Kobal2]

Just skip past the whole 40k thing and go straight to GW's best game - Bloodbowl. Not only is it a better game but it's cheaper to. You can pick up a team for 50-60 bucks.

Actually, that's only GW's second best game. The best is and always will be Necromunda. IIRC they made the rules open source a while back, too.

ETA: yup, there they are (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=5300010&_requestid=1817425).

[N9IWP]

There is a reason I call it Warhammer $40,000

Brian

[typoink]

I dabbled very briefly, but just didn't have the necessary time to play. I wish there was a "pocket scale" version of 40k, but the full-size is just brutal.

I do, however, have a bunch of unpainted minis around. If you're looking to play IG or Marines, PM me and I'll make you a great deal. ;)

[Kobal2]

I dabbled very briefly, but just didn't have the necessary time to play. I wish there was a "pocket scale" version of 40k, but the full-size is just brutal.

There is. It's called Necromunda ;). But they discontinued it because, well, there are no huge piles of cash to be made off a game where an "army" is 15ish models tops. Same reason they discontinued Man O' War, Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Gorkamorka...

That being said, there are ton of skirmish-sized wargames out there if you're into that sort of thing, both fantasy and sci-fi themed. I really like Confrontation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confrontation_%28Rackham%29)myself.

[Sierra Indigo]

God damn GorkaMorka is a great game. I hope they do a rerelease like they did with the recent rebox of Space Hulk (which is currently still unpainted on my kitchen table. Must get on that). I'd go back to my local GW and actually play if GorkaMorka was on the table.

[CandidGamera]

I dabbled very briefly, but just didn't have the necessary time to play. I wish there was a "pocket scale" version of 40k, but the full-size is just brutal.

I do, however, have a bunch of unpainted minis around. If you're looking to play IG or Marines, PM me and I'll make you a great deal. ;)

My codexes should get here today or tomorrow, I think, so let me review, but yeah, I might take you up on that.

And I have to confess, one of the reasons Imperial Guard tempted me was because I've been reading on 1d4chan about the legends of Ursarkar Creed.. (AKA "Creeeeeeeeeeed!")

[FinnAgain]

IG has some of the best vehicles short of an Apocalypse level game. They also have the squishiest meatshield.

[Kobal2]

IG has some of the best vehicles short of an Apocalypse level game. They also have the squishiest meatshield.

Yeah, there's nothing quite like fielding a couple Basilisks behind a squadron of Leman Russes to feel all blitzkriegy and shit. The flashlight brigade is just ablative armour :D

[FinnAgain]

(For those reading along, the default weapon of the IG is the lasgun, a weapon so weak that it's generally referred to as a flashlight)

[Ludovic]

Yeah, there's nothing quite like fielding a couple Basilisks behind a squadron of Leman Russes to feel all blitzkriegy and shit.I'd feel more blitzkriegy if IG could have Land Raiders. Ironically the only tank that's designated a Main Battle Tank, the Leman Russ, is not a Main Battle Tank, but rather a heavy tank from the point of view of non-apocalypse games: slow, powerful armor only on the front, and a mixture of anti-armor and anti-personnel weapons.

The Land Raider is much more of an MBT: fast, well armored on all sides, built to take on enemy armor, and can fire while moving. (Plus it can hold its own panzergrenadiers :))

[Ludovic]

Of course what would be even better from an MBT perspective is a Land Raider that sacrificed carrying capacity to mount a battle gun on the front (plus two TLLC!). I know why they don't from a balance perspective, but I don't see any reason why it should be technically infeasible.

[mlees]

Of course what would be even better from an MBT perspective is a Land Raider that sacrificed carrying capacity to mount a battle gun on the front (plus two TLLC!). I know why they don't from a balance perspective, but I don't see any reason why it should be technically infeasible.

Reading some of the novels out there, it seems that the Space Marines are very very very very tied to tradition. Even to the point of religiosity.

It seems that technology has essentially stagnated for millennia. (And there is always the worry about the taint of Chaos infecting even inanimate objects.)

Magic is as real a force in their universe as technology is.

[Sierra Indigo]

My codexes should get here today or tomorrow, I think, so let me review, but yeah, I might take you up on that.

And I have to confess, one of the reasons Imperial Guard tempted me was because I've been reading on 1d4chan about the legends of Ursarkar Creed.. (AKA "Creeeeeeeeeeed!")

An excerpt from Abaddon at the Therapist (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Abaddon_at_the_Therapist) (Spoiler for Bigness)
Abaddon chuckled. “Kharn’s one swell guy. Always sees the best in things.”

The counselor was, for the first time in her life, speechless. She just didn’t know what to say to that tale. She leaned forwards, adjusting her glasses.

“So yeah,” said Abaddon, “the stress. What was it you were asking me about ag...ain…” he trailed off as he noticed a glint in her eyes. Abruptly, he realized – the belching smoke, the grimy tracks, the slowly rotating turret-

His psychotherapist was a Leman Russ Demolisher.

Roaring, he leapt off the couch as a flurry of heavy bolter rounds tore it to shreds. Lightning wreathed the Talon of Horus, and he dropped into a crouch, cursing himself for not realizing it sooner. He dodged to the side as the turret fired, sending a demolisher shell straight through the window of the office.

...

To replace his counselor with a Leman Russ without him knowing could only have been pulled off by some kind of tactical genius-

“CREEEEEEED!” bellowed Abaddon as he charged after the tank.

...

Using the Talon as a shovel, he dug his way through the tank until he came to the crew compartment. Instead of finding the smashed and ruined body of his nemesis, though... there was a note. Frowning, he picked it up.

Dear Abaddon the Despoiler, If you thought this was good, wait until you see what I did to your flagship.

Yours sincerely,

Ursakar E. Creed


“CRREEEEEEEEEEEEED!”

Of course what would be even better from an MBT perspective is a Land Raider that sacrificed carrying capacity to mount a battle gun on the front (plus two TLLC!). I know why they don't from a balance perspective, but I don't see any reason why it should be technically infeasible.

Because that's Heresy.

Seriously. All equipment in the Imperium of Man is built to exacting specifications laid down either during or before the Dark Age of Technology, and things like Land Raiders are built from Standard Template Constructs, which are essentially great big 3 printers that make lego kits for tanks and such. To alter the form of something that is built from an STC is the direst form of tech-heresy, and the Techpriests of Mars are willing to go to war to destroy heretek.

Plus altering the machine will offend its Machine Spirit, and you don't want to know how many hours/days/months of prayer and ritual cleansing it requires to get a stroppy Machine Spirit back into line.

[Ludovic]

All of that is BS. I know the supposed reasons for it, but the real reason is game balance.

In a similar vein, everyone is fighting each other all the time, not because the authors think grimdark enhances the story, but because it gives people an excuse of why their forces can fight each other.

[Sierra Indigo]

Yes, from an external standpoint it's for game balance.

But from an in-universe standpoint, that is the reason.

[smiling bandit]

But from an in-universe standpoint, that is the reason.

They've got dozens of official and unofficial modifications. The "in-game" reality varies from pag to page, let alone book to book.

[GreedySmurf]

Actually, that's only GW's second best game. The best is and always will be Necromunda. IIRC they made the rules open source a while back, too.

ETA: yup, there they are (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=5300010&_requestid=1817425).

Nuh ah! ;)

I've played plenty of Necromunda to. But the old, "I can see enough of him", "no you can't" got a bit wearing after a while :D

To me the biggest drawcard, and the main reason why I never bothered with 40k is the development aspect to BB & Necromunda.

To those not in the know, in BB/Necro your gang/team develops, your players get new skills and abilities. It's not a simple min/max exercise based upon how many points are fighting today.

[Ludovic]

I've never played Necromunda, but yes, I prefer BB to WH40K not only due to the long-term-campaign possibilities of it but also because there is no arguing over measurements or LOS.

[smiling bandit]

Why are they so slow, anyway? Games Workshop manages to put out something like two codexes a year. Given the actual pagecount, that's not very much actual game material, much of which is just the same unit reprinted multiple times. Why does it take them so long to move on anything?

[FinnAgain]

Plastic marked up that high buys a lot of H.

[CandidGamera]

Plastic marked up that high buys a lot of H.

:D

It certainly does. Of course, GW will be pissed off when their dealers start giving them New Finecast Heroin instead of the old kind..

[CandidGamera]

Checked UPS tracking - Orks, Blood Angels, and Space Marine codexes should arrive today. Whee!

[mlees]

Checked UPS tracking - Orks, Blood Angels, and Space Marine codexes should arrive today. Whee!

Heh. Did you hold up a couple of pinwheels when you did that?

[CandidGamera]

Heh. Did you hold up a couple of pinwheels when you did that?

If I did, you can't prove it.

[Kobal2]

Plus altering the machine will offend its Machine Spirit, and you don't want to know how many hours/days/months of prayer and ritual cleansing it requires to get a stroppy Machine Spirit back into line.

Ah yes, the Litany of Percussive Maintenance :p

I've played plenty of Necromunda to. But the old, "I can see enough of him", "no you can't" got a bit wearing after a while :D

True. But in Blood Bowl, can you fling the other guy's super expensive Heavy Bolter guy off a third floor catwalk with a shotgun slug ? No, no you can't. Enjoy the trip down, bitch !
Crowd surfing Gutter Runners just doesn't offer that kind of satisfaction :). Gang fouling War Dancers is close though.

[Ludovic]

Watching treemen trip over their own roots and explode into splinters on impact can be pretty satisfying, too.

[Sierra Indigo]

Ah yes, the Litany of Percussive Maintenance :p

There's a running joke in my Rogue Trader group about the pending 40k MMO, and the potential of having a Techpriest class and the required four-hour litanies just to open a door or fire a weapon :)

[CandidGamera]

Dammit. UPS handed it off to the Postal Service for the last leg of the delivery - so although it was two miles from my house yesterday morning, it won't get there until today. That's odd, though - I see a UPS truck near my house fairly frequently. I wonder why the hand-off?

[CandidGamera]

Incidentally, I finally opened my copy of Assault on Black Reach - and apparently, there's at least one mistake. It came with two copies of the digest rulebook. Bonus?

[Kobal2]

One for you, one for your opponent maybe ?

[CandidGamera]

One for you, one for your opponent maybe ?

I'm told I can sell it for $20 or so, so maybe I'll do that.

[CandidGamera]

So can someone explain the relationship of the Daemonhunters faction to that of the Grey Knights faction? Is the new Grey Knights codex a separate beast, or is it intended to be the updated representation of Daemonhunters going forward?

[smiling bandit]

So can someone explain the relationship of the Daemonhunters faction to that of the Grey Knights faction? Is the new Grey Knights codex a separate beast, or is it intended to be the updated representation of Daemonhunters going forward?

It took about an hour with a shop owner to figure this one out, so here goes:

The old Daemonhunters were mostly the actual grey knights army plus a few dash of inquisition stuff. Meanwhile most actualy inquisition stuff was over in the Witchhunters book with the sisters of battle army and characters.

Naturally, GW wants to confuse everything as much as possible, so now the Grey Knights book includes both grey knights armies and most Inquisition stuff except for the Sisters of Battle, but including inquisition characters who had nothing to do with the grey knights before. You can easily have Grey Knights, Dreadnaughts, DreadKnights, Inquisitors, priests, and assassins all on the field from one army.

[Animastryfe]

is it intended to be the updated representation of Daemonhunters going forward?

It is this. The Daemonhunters codex has been updated and renamed the Grey Knights codex.

[Hypno-Toad]

Dammit. UPS handed it off to the Postal Service for the last leg of the delivery - so although it was two miles from my house yesterday morning, it won't get there until today. That's odd, though - I see a UPS truck near my house fairly frequently. I wonder why the hand-off?

Just remember, you have to post pics of your painted minis.

[Sierra Indigo]

Remember - THIN YOUR FUCKING PAINTS (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/THIN_YOUR_PAINTS)

[CandidGamera]

It took about an hour with a shop owner to figure this one out, so here goes:

The old Daemonhunters were mostly the actual grey knights army plus a few dash of inquisition stuff. Meanwhile most actualy inquisition stuff was over in the Witchhunters book with the sisters of battle army and characters.

Naturally, GW wants to confuse everything as much as possible, so now the Grey Knights book includes both grey knights armies and most Inquisition stuff except for the Sisters of Battle, but including inquisition characters who had nothing to do with the grey knights before. You can easily have Grey Knights, Dreadnaughts, DreadKnights, Inquisitors, priests, and assassins all on the field from one army.

Okay, so the Witchhunters is the mixed-force army I was thinking of. I can't imagine how I could've confused the two.. ;)

[CandidGamera]

Just remember, you have to post pics of your painted minis.

I really need to set up a little photography box for doing that. That goes on the to-do list..

[CandidGamera]

Remember - THIN YOUR FUCKING PAINTS (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/THIN_YOUR_PAINTS)

Wow, even when I first started painting years ago, I was doing better than those horrorshows. Yikes.

And no, I don't usually thin my paints. ;) Not unless I want to do some washing or layering..

[Sierra Indigo]

Haha, yeah. The actual "thin your paints" thing is a bit of a meme on /tg/ :D

[smiling bandit]

Okay, so the Witchhunters is the mixed-force army I was thinking of. I can't imagine how I could've confused the two.. ;)

The only reason for this I can imagine is that they were under pressure to put something out, but too lazy to get off their asses (no, theyre British, so it's arses) and write an Inquisition book.

[FinnAgain]

My broodlord is not pleased. (http://mmg.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/finnagain/Warhammer/DSCN0706.jpg.html?pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfaLdh1h3YMYz2ZcO3Ga2KxVOuMOGwJRZTTqGUMJortr84kdRocjf6B%2FrYKPG2zx YjC8MAJmZyQtZ5zKdOE%2FKot%2FpoKpICwojP%2BqS1B66M5KbqS82X8unbSAAU5WTwwl%2FY%2FNC7QETwYb3iMuUuAWwzLabD P1hoUS%2BRzA%3D)
Stumpy the Carnifex is pretty happy that his devourers weren't nerfed too much though (http://mmg.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/finnagain/Warhammer/DSCN0701.jpg.html?o=13&pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfaLdh1h3YMYz2ZcO3Ga2KxVOuMOGwJRZTTqGUMJortr84kdRocjf6B%2FrYKPG2zxYjC8MAJmZyQtZ5zKdO E%2FKot%2FpoKpICwojP%2BqS1B66M5KbqS82X8unbSAAU5WTwwl%2FY%2FNC7QETwYb3iMuUuAWwzLabDP1hoUS%2BRzA%3D&pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfaLdh1h3YMYz2ZcO3Ga2KxVOuMOGwJRZTTqGUMJortr84kdRocjf6B%2FrYKPG2zxYjC8MAJmZyQtZ5zKdO E%2FKot%2FpoKpICwojP%2BqS1B66M5KbqS82X8unbSAAU5WTwwl%2FY%2FNC7QETwYb3iMuUuAWwzLabDP1hoUS%2BRzA%3D)

[CandidGamera]

Before delving into the codexes, I have been reading the rulebook. Seems pretty straightforward so far, though considering that the game uses 'actual' line of sight, I bet that leads to some argument about visibility when one can't get one's head behind the miniature to see.

[Kobal2]

I bet that leads to some argument about visibility when one can't get one's head behind the miniature to see.

You have *no* idea :p

[CandidGamera]

You have *no* idea :p

Heheh. I'm also seeing a lot of dice rolling for one turn.. hell, one unit. Roll to hit, to wound, damage saves..

[Kobal2]

Heheh. I'm also seeing a lot of dice rolling for one turn.. hell, one unit. Roll to hit, to wound, damage saves..

That's... manageable. Basically you go "this squad shoots at that squad", roll a dice bucket for your to-hits, another for the wounds, and a last one for the saves. If you kill dudes, you remove the closest ones/the ones with the least cover first.

Unless you're playing against a tremendous asshole who insists on rolling individually for each model. Then it become scrotum-bitingly annoying, yes.

[Sierra Indigo]

Mmm. Dice. Eversor Assassin. BRING ME THE DICE BUCKET hehe.

[FinnAgain]

That's... manageable. Basically you go "this squad shoots at that squad", roll a dice bucket for your to-hits, another for the wounds, and a last one for the saves.


It's a little bit easier.
Roll your dice to for hit rolls, then remove all those dice that don't hit.
Roll all the remaining dice for wound rolls, remove all that don't wound.
Roll for saves from the remaining pile.

Then move on to the next unit. And hope you don't play shooty 'nids or IG.

[smiling bandit]

Uh-oh

Guys, I picked up the Dark Eldar Codex out of sheer morbid curiosity, and now I think I mighjt be trying to design an army. I even came up with some fluff! I need help... please!

[FinnAgain]

Yeah... DE are a devastating force, but very, very, very finicky. I'd wait to learn the basic rules first and play, even if it's only with a 500 point SMurf or IG army, and then maybe try a small DE force. They're awesome, but definitely 'advanced level' fuckers.

[CandidGamera]

That's... manageable. Basically you go "this squad shoots at that squad", roll a dice bucket for your to-hits, another for the wounds, and a last one for the saves. If you kill dudes, you remove the closest ones/the ones with the least cover first.

Unless you're playing against a tremendous asshole who insists on rolling individually for each model. Then it become scrotum-bitingly annoying, yes.

The rulesbook says the owner of the defending army gets to allocate the wounds.

[Ludovic]

The rulesbook says the owner of the defending army gets to allocate the wounds.They can, but you can roll all the saves together for all models that are exactly the same that have been wounded.

For instance, if you had a group of 10 Blood Angels, 7 normal dudes, 2 with Melta Guns, and 1 Sergeant, and you got 6 wounds, and decided to allocate 3 to the regular guys, 2 to the melta guns, and 1 to the sergeant*, you'd roll three groups of dice: 3 saves for the regular bolters, 2 for the meltas, and 1 for the sergeant, taking off any unsaved wounds from those respective groups. You don't roll six times, one for each model, unless each model is unique. Or you want to be annoying.

*Of course, normally you wouldn't want to do this but rather allocate everything to the regular bolters.

[CandidGamera]

They can, but you can roll all the saves together for all models that are exactly the same that have been wounded.

For instance, if you had a group of 10 Blood Angels, 7 normal dudes, 2 with Melta Guns, and 1 Sergeant, and you got 6 wounds, and decided to allocate 3 to the regular guys, 2 to the melta guns, and 1 to the sergeant*, you'd roll three groups of dice: 3 saves for the regular bolters, 2 for the meltas, and 1 for the sergeant, taking off any unsaved wounds from those respective groups. You don't roll six times, one for each model, unless each model is unique. Or you want to be annoying.

*Of course, normally you wouldn't want to do this but rather allocate everything to the regular bolters.

Yes, but I was contradicting the sentence :

"If you kill dudes, you remove the closest ones/the ones with the least cover first."

[Kobal2]

The rulesbook says the owner of the defending army gets to allocate the wounds.

It's been a while since I played :o.

[CandidGamera]

It's been a while since I played :o.

Heheh. No worries, I still appreciate the advice and information everyone provides. It's just fresh in my mind from having read the book.

[Animastryfe]

Uh-oh

Guys, I picked up the Dark Eldar Codex out of sheer morbid curiosity, and now I think I mighjt be trying to design an army. I even came up with some fluff! I need help... please!

Dark Eldar is one of the hardest armies to play. Be warned. However, they can be devastating when played well. 1d4chan has pages on tactics for every army, but that site has NSFW drawn images on some of the non-tactics pages. There's also dakkadakka, warseer and Bell of Lost souls.

[smiling bandit]

Dark Eldar is one of the hardest armies to play. Be warned. However, they can be devastating when played well. 1d4chan has pages on tactics for every army, but that site has NSFW drawn images on some of the non-tactics pages. There's also dakkadakka, warseer and Bell of Lost souls.

Wow, some of those artists have such inventively wonderful depictions of breasts - I mean, beasts. Yes. Warbeasts. Totally nonsexualized-warbeasts who are not going into battle stark naked.

[CandidGamera]

Finally finished reading the main rulebook in fits and starts. I think, so long as I don't have to deal with too many vehicles at first, that I can handle the basics. Now I need to look at my codexes and decide what kind of options I want to field. What I may do is work on the Orks first, just to get a simple little force I can field to better learn the gameplay.

[FinnAgain]

Orks is for fightin' n' winnin!
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

[CandidGamera]

Allright, I've tentatively started the assembly process. Question for those of you who regularly paint Warhammer minis - do you usually fully assemble, then paint? Or wait to glue in the last bits after painting? I'm used to fantasy miniatures that don't tend to have arms folded across their chest, with a big gun blocking most of the chest insignia..

[Hypno-Toad]

If the arms are blocking the chest, I usually leave them off until after painting. It's a little annoying having to scrape primer off of the joints for a proper join. But it can be worse trying to paint around the gun. It depends on the particular mini.

[CandidGamera]

If the arms are blocking the chest, I usually leave them off until after painting. It's a little annoying having to scrape primer off of the joints for a proper join. But it can be worse trying to paint around the gun. It depends on the particular mini.

Hmm. Yeah, that's probably what I should do. I'm planning to brush prime anyway.

[smiling bandit]

I've been so sick I haven't moved on this myself, but: Will plain old superglue do? Or do you need specific plastic modelling glue? My Wyches are really annoyed I haven't put them together yet, and they're complaining. A lot.

[Interrobang]

Eldar, Chaos and I believe Necrons are also low model count armies. Stay away from Orks, 'nids and Imperial Guard if you know what's good for your wallet :)

This is largely why I never even thought about going into WH40K. The army that's most interesting to me is Imperial Guard. In a world of demons and aliens and super-soldiers, I like the idea of a group of regular guys with laser guns, backed up by undying resolve, raw numbers, and MASSIVE FREAKING TANKS! But, of course, numbers=$.

[Grumman]

I've been so sick I haven't moved on this myself, but: Will plain old superglue do? Or do you need specific plastic modelling glue? My Wyches are really annoyed I haven't put them together yet, and they're complaining. A lot.
Superglue works, but other glues work better. Superglue creates a rather brittle bond regardless of material, while plastic cement melts and fuses the plastic together to form a stronger bond.

[CandidGamera]

Superglue works, but other glues work better. Superglue creates a rather brittle bond regardless of material, while plastic cement melts and fuses the plastic together to form a stronger bond.

I thought Krazy Glue had the same slightly-melting effect. No? I've mainly worked with metal up till this point.

[Kobal2]

This is largely why I never even thought about going into WH40K. The army that's most interesting to me is Imperial Guard. In a world of demons and aliens and super-soldiers, I like the idea of a group of regular guys with laser guns, backed up by undying resolve, raw numbers, and MASSIVE FREAKING TANKS! But, of course, numbers=$.

Well, there's always the ghetto way we used in high school: make tanks out of Lego blocks, cobble models from every game you own ("the HeroQuest orcs are the Catachan squad. The Trivial Pursuit pie is the Vindicare assassin.") but it does lose something :p

[Grumman]

This is largely why I never even thought about going into WH40K. The army that's most interesting to me is Imperial Guard. In a world of demons and aliens and super-soldiers, I like the idea of a group of regular guys with laser guns, backed up by undying resolve, raw numbers, and MASSIVE FREAKING TANKS! But, of course, numbers=$.
If Defiance Games gets around to making their first plastic kit, they could be a good way to make a cheap IG army. A dollar per model before third party discounts is a lot better than $2.70 for the same.

[Hypno-Toad]

This is largely why I never even thought about going into WH40K. The army that's most interesting to me is Imperial Guard. In a world of demons and aliens and super-soldiers, I like the idea of a group of regular guys with laser guns, backed up by undying resolve, raw numbers, and MASSIVE FREAKING TANKS! But, of course, numbers=$.

Good deals exist out there. Between E-bay and connections in the gaming community, you can get horde armies cheap sometimes. It also helps that the base figures for IG and Tyranids are plastic. That usually makes them cheaper.

Another consideration is that painting a horde army takes longer.

[Rocketeer]

I thought Krazy Glue had the same slightly-melting effect. No? I've mainly worked with metal up till this point.

No. Krazy Glue is a superglue.

For plastic models, if gluing before painting, it's best to use either liquid cement or old-fashioned tube glue.

If gluing after painting, I tend to use either one of the more viscous superglues or five-minute epoxy, with a preference for epoxy because you get a bit more working time to get things properly adjusted, and because sometimes superglues leave a white filmy deposit on nearby glossy or transparent surfaces.

[CandidGamera]

No. Krazy Glue is a superglue.

For plastic models, if gluing before painting, it's best to use either liquid cement or old-fashioned tube glue.

If gluing after painting, I tend to use either one of the more viscous superglues or five-minute epoxy, with a preference for epoxy because you get a bit more working time to get things properly adjusted, and because sometimes superglues leave a white filmy deposit on nearby glossy or transparent surfaces.

What are you calling "old fashioned tube glue?" And is there a brand of liquid cement you prefer?

And while we're talking minis, I should ask the folks here - I've been dissatisfied with my sealers lately. The Liquitex gloss works great - two coats, nice finish. But then when I want to do a layer of matte to take off the shine, I run into a problem - the liquitex thin matte sealer doesn't actually seem to take out the shine. If I use liquitex medium viscosity, it takes out the shine perfectly! but sometimes the thickness can obscure detail if not very carefully brushed.

So does anyone here have a recommendation for a brush-on matte sealer?

[Rocketeer]

By old-fashioned tube glue, I mean the type that comes in a little tube like a toothpaste tube, the type the Fifties Dad uses while helping his son build a Messerschmidt for a Cub Scout project. ;) Here, this is the stuff. (http://www.testors.com/product/136635/3512A/_/Cement_For_Plastics_78oz_Carded)

As far as liquid cements go, I've used Plastruct's Plastic Weld, Tenax 7R, and Testors Liquid cement. For me, the Testors (http://www.testors.com/product/0/3502X/_/Liquid_Cement_for_Plastic) is the most satisfactory.

I've also used this stuff (http://www.testors.com/product/0/8872C/_/Liquid_Cement_For_Plastic), which is about halfway between the two other types; more viscous than the liquid, more free-flowing than the tube.

[CandidGamera]

I think I'll mix - liquid cement for the stuff that should reasonably never have to come apart again, and krazy glue for the things that I may want to snap off and replace, theoretically.

[Hypno-Toad]

Just remember that you are obligated to glue your finger to the mini at least once.

[Mtgman]

[T]he game uses 'actual' line of sight, I bet that leads to some argument about visibility when one can't get one's head behind the miniature to see. Low tech - A tape measure. You should have one to check ranges anyway. Extend it a bit and hold it above your model, within your arc of fire, see if it reaches theirs without going through terrain. If so, then you've got LoS. Pros: Easy, Cheap, doubles as a range finder. Cons: Knocking shit over.

Medium tech - Laser pointer. Hold it behind the model, light up the shoulder/head of the model and the target. If you can't get behind your model, hand it to the other player and see if they can establish LoS the other direction. Pros: Easy, fairly cheap, highly accurate, cool. Cons: Still have to measure for shooting range, need clearance behind at least one model.

High tech - Laser pointer with a length of wide fiber optic cable on the tip. For those times you can't get a laser pointer behind either model. You can use a pair of offset needlenose pliers (http://www.thetoolnetwork.com/offxset_needlenose_pliers.html) to bend the fiber optic cable into almost any space. Pros: Highly accurate, as near as possible to a universal solution for the problem. Cons: Difficult, still have to measure, a bit harder to get/make, knocking shit over, over-geeking the problem.

Enjoy,
Steven

[CandidGamera]

I just so happen to have a laser pointer. Excellent.

I've been clipping, trimming and filing plastic. I hope the dust isn't toxic.

[FinnAgain]

You never, ever, ever want to inhale any sort of particulate matter. Get a cheap particulate mask. Plastic, AFAIK, isn't all that bad for you, but if you're ever working with resin I'm fairly sure it can be carcinogenic.

[Grumman]

Oh, and one very important piece of advice about buying Finecast models: do not buy Finecast models. Either that or buy only one small, relatively cheap Finecast model to learn for yourself why I say this.

[CandidGamera]

You never, ever, ever want to inhale any sort of particulate matter. Get a cheap particulate mask. Plastic, AFAIK, isn't all that bad for you, but if you're ever working with resin I'm fairly sure it can be carcinogenic.

I'm joking, mostly. I use a catch tray for the plastic dust, and most of it seems to stick to the file and gum it up anyway, until I knock it loose.

[CandidGamera]

Oh, and one very important piece of advice about buying Finecast models: do not buy Finecast models. Either that or buy only one small, relatively cheap Finecast model to learn for yourself why I say this.

I've heard the horrors. Unfortunately, one of the hero-types I want may only be available in Finecast these days, so..

[Grumman]

I've heard the horrors. Unfortunately, one of the hero-types I want may only be available in Finecast these days, so..
What hero-type? The Ork warboss?

[CandidGamera]

What hero-type? The Ork warboss?

Commander Dante of the Blood Angels.

[Grumman]

Commander Dante of the Blood Angels.
You could always make your own using the plastics - the Sanguinary Guard box looks like it would have pretty much everything you need.

[CandidGamera]

You could always make your own using the plastics - the Sanguinary Guard box looks like it would have pretty much everything you need.

I don't know if I'm ready to graduate to plastic frankesteinian surgery yet.

[Grumman]

I don't know if I'm ready to graduate to plastic frankesteinian surgery yet.
Better that than fixing a Finecast model. It's mainly down to picking the right components - the single headed power axe, the melta pistol, the death mask/halo head and the aquila breastplate for starters.

[CandidGamera]

And while we're talking minis, I should ask the folks here - I've been dissatisfied with my sealers lately. The Liquitex gloss works great - two coats, nice finish. But then when I want to do a layer of matte to take off the shine, I run into a problem - the liquitex thin matte sealer doesn't actually seem to take out the shine. If I use liquitex medium viscosity, it takes out the shine perfectly! but sometimes the thickness can obscure detail if not very carefully brushed.

So does anyone here have a recommendation for a brush-on matte sealer?

I want to throw this out there again, in case people missed it the first time.

And maybe I can pick up a metal Dante at a hobby store or on ebay..

[Rocketeer]

Heck, I always just spray stuff with Testors Dullcoat.

[Hypno-Toad]

Heck, I always just spray stuff with Testors Dullcoat.

But you have to shake it VERY well. Otherwise, you can end up with a semi-gloss finish.

[CandidGamera]

I won't use sprays anymore. Too much of a pain in the ass. Is there a brush-on Dullcoat?

[CandidGamera]

So, a status update. I actually got to play a session of Warhammer last week - well, two full turns of one, anyway. The guy from my D&D group who prodded me to start playing loaned me 1500 points of Space Marines to set up against his preferred 1500 points of Orks.

In three hours, we got through two turns each - and I deployed first, but he successfully seized the initiative to play first, so right away, I was at a disadvantage. And after two turns, it was clear he would have won the full match - but it did help me solidify some concepts.

And I'm going to have to come up with some anti-Ork tactics. I think some Baal Predators with flamestorm cannons and sponson-mounted heavy flamers would do a capital job of thinning the herd. When in doubt, kill it with fire.

I've started some assembly and (brush) priming - starting with tactical marines and the Space Marine captain. Haven't decided what I want to do with most of the bases yet, but I am going to try to do a 'long-ruined road' on some of them -a few bricks peeking through grass, gravel, and turf.

So here's my army thus far :

5 Tactical Marines (from a paint set I purchased ages ago)
10 Tactical Marines (including one Sergeant, from Assault on Black Reach)
1 Space Marine Captain (Assault on BR)
5 Terminators (Assault on BR)
1 Dreadnought (Assault on BR)
5 Assault Marines
5 Scouts
5 Death Company
5 Sanguinary Guard
1 Baal Predator

And in metal :
Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host
Astorath the Grim
Terminator Captain
Librarian in Terminator Armor
Chaplain (with Jump Pack)

In addition to a few that I may be buying from someone who contacted me because of this thread, I'm thinking I may want one more copy of Assault on Black Reach, and definitely another Baal Predator, and another Dreadnought or two. Blood Angels are pretty mobile, but I still may want to pick up some transport-type vehicles..

[Hypno-Toad]

Sounds like a good starting army.

[CandidGamera]

.. and I just ordered metal Mephiston, Lemartes, and Brother Corbulo, to make sure I get'em before they go Finecast.

[CandidGamera]

and I just keep buying more. But I'll never be able to spend as much as I used to spend on Magic the Gathering, unless I maintain three or four forces, so it's okay.

Anybody have recommendations on army carrying cases?

[Ludovic]

Anybody have recommendations on army carrying cases?Portable Warfare (http://www.portablewarfare.com/products/) (disclaimer: owned by a friend of mine,) competitive pricing and flexible purchasing (the last time I checked which was a couple years ago, other companys were about the same price, but separately purchasing the foam was just as expensive as the case with foam!) Plus the outside carrying capacity is better than other cases I've seen.

[Hypno-Toad]

.. and I just ordered metal Mephiston, Lemartes, and Brother Corbulo, to make sure I get'em before they go Finecast.

Coincidentally, I'm just finishing up painting my friends Blood Angel army. I'm so tired of red. Just the "Storm Raven" he built from a valkyrie and landraider is left to do.

[CandidGamera]

Portable Warfare (http://www.portablewarfare.com/products/) (disclaimer: owned by a friend of mine,) competitive pricing and flexible purchasing (the last time I checked which was a couple years ago, other companys were about the same price, but separately purchasing the foam was just as expensive as the case with foam!) Plus the outside carrying capacity is better than other cases I've seen.

Those do look nice. I'll keep'em in mind for once I get enough painted to play!

My army, now :

5 Tactical Marines (from a paint set I purchased ages ago)
10 Tactical Marines (including one Sergeant, from Assault on Black Reach)
1 Space Marine Captain (Assault on BR)
5 Terminators (Assault on BR)
1 Dreadnought (Assault on BR)
5 Assault Marines
5 Scouts
5 Death Company
5 Sanguinary Guard
2 Baal Predators
2 Razorbacks
1 Stormraven Gunship

And in metal :
Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host
Astorath the Grim
Terminator Captain
Librarian in Terminator Armor
Chaplain (with Jump Pack)
Brother Corbulo
Mephiston
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
Techmarine (w/ Servitors)

Planned purchases : Two Furioso Dreadnaughts, a Drop Pod, a Blood Angels Battleforce box (More assault marines, more death company, a Rhino..), Commander Dante (if I can find him in metal), misc. marines from a fellow Doper.

[CandidGamera]

Yessss. Found Dante in Metal!

[CandidGamera]

Alright, there were some calls for me to upload pictures of my painting efforts - or maybe I imagined them. In any case, I'm mostly done with the five marines from the paint set. I may still apply a dark wash of some kind, and they definitely need to be sealed and to have chapter/squad markings put on them..

But the rest is good. Took these with my new phone's camera - some using the built-in flash, some with independent lighting.

http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/Miniatures/

[FinnAgain]

Good first attempt. You might want to read up some on highlighting and shading.

[Kobal2]

Not bad at all ! My first minis certainly were worse than this :o

If you want to add a little more flash to them (without delving into l33t pr0 techniques and shit), you might look into ways to use all that prime flat real estate - the huge-ass pauldrons of course, but also the knee pads and boots. These large, flat surfaces are all usually within easy access (because they're unlikely to get covered by other limbs & bits) so it's easy to paint or add decals to them, stuff like unit type (IIRC tac marines are supposed to have an upwards arrow on the right pauldron, Devastators a chevron and assault marines a saltire), skulls & crossbones, checker boards, squad numbers etc...

These all help break the monochrome and reduce the "I dipped my Smurfs in a pot of paint and called it a day" effect. Even something as simple as painting the raised edges of the pauldrons a different colour (as seen here (http://a4.idata.over-blog.com/240x330/3/65/63/96/ultramarines/Ultramarine_Armor.png)) looks snazzy IMO.

[FinnAgain]

I'd recommend dry brushing, which is neither 1337 nor pro. :cool:

[CandidGamera]

I'd recommend dry brushing, which is neither 1337 nor pro. :cool:

Drybrushing and I have a complex relationship - either I don't dry out the brush enough, and it becomes overbrushing, or I dry it out enough, and it doesn't feel like I'm depositing any paint. The vent covers on their backpacks are drybrushed, and there's some edging on the bolters.

And.. wow, what the hell is wrong with Photobucket? When logged out, I'm not seeing these things at a usable resolution. Are you folks even able to see these at a size to pick out the details? Because - these are not my first miniatures. I've been painting for YEARS. And I think they look pretty damn good.

[CandidGamera]

It looks like I'm getting redirected to Photobucket's mobile site. Annoying.

[CandidGamera]

Not bad at all ! My first minis certainly were worse than this :o

If you want to add a little more flash to them (without delving into l33t pr0 techniques and shit), you might look into ways to use all that prime flat real estate - the huge-ass pauldrons of course, but also the knee pads and boots. These large, flat surfaces are all usually within easy access (because they're unlikely to get covered by other limbs & bits) so it's easy to paint or add decals to them, stuff like unit type (IIRC tac marines are supposed to have an upwards arrow on the right pauldron, Devastators a chevron and assault marines a saltire), skulls & crossbones, checker boards, squad numbers etc...

These all help break the monochrome and reduce the "I dipped my Smurfs in a pot of paint and called it a day" effect. Even something as simple as painting the raised edges of the pauldrons a different colour (as seen here (http://a4.idata.over-blog.com/240x330/3/65/63/96/ultramarines/Ultramarine_Armor.png)) looks snazzy IMO.

As I noted in my original post, I'm still planning to apply chapter symbols to their shoulder pads. Right now, the raised edges of the pauldrons only have a little orange shading at their apex for a lighting effect.

[CandidGamera]

Yeah, I'm going to have to chalk this up to camera operation failure.

You can see the shading and drybrushing on some of the figures in some of the pictures, but a lot of them do look plain red.

You can see it on the knees, hands, and feet of #1 and #3 here :
http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/Miniatures/?action=view&current=squad1_phoneflash.jpg

#3's helmet, shoulders, and backpack here :
http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/Miniatures/?action=view&current=squad2_overlight.jpg

And #1 shows off the shaded valleys on his armor pretty well here :

http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/Miniatures/?action=view&current=squad3_phoneflash.jpg

[psiekier]

Cool. Absent any other reliable info as to what the strengths and weaknesses are, I think I may go with Blood Angels, because they're red and I like red.That's funny, CandidGamera.

I've had a Blood Angels army (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/myglry.html) for over 20 years, and even though blue is my favorite color, I picked Blood Angels primarily because I had plenty of Testors red flat enamel paint. Since then, I have learned to paint better (I use acrylics now instead of enamel), the Blood Angels have gotten their own rules (starting in Second Edition), and the game itself has been revamped three times.

Allright, I've tentatively started the assembly process. Question for those of you who regularly paint Warhammer minis - do you usually fully assemble, then paint? Or wait to glue in the last bits after painting? I'm used to fantasy miniatures that don't tend to have arms folded across their chest, with a big gun blocking most of the chest insignia.I glue in the last bitz after I do almost all of my painting.

Not sure if this is helping me or hindering me, as all of the Citadel and GW guides show complete assembly before painting. There are some cases where this is virtually required - especially with metal models that might need to be pinned or have gaps filled with Green Stuff - but I just can't get past trying to paint the chest eagle around a bolt gun that's been glued in place.

I'll have to come back later and take a look at your gallery...

[CandidGamera]

That's funny, CandidGamera.

I've had a Blood Angels army (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/myglry.html) for over 20 years, and even though blue is my favorite color, I picked Blood Angels primarily because I had plenty of Testors red flat enamel paint. Since then, I have learned to paint better (I use acrylics now instead of enamel), the Blood Angels have gotten their own rules (starting in Second Edition), and the game itself has been revamped three times.

I glue in the last bitz after I do almost all of my painting.

Not sure if this is helping me or hindering me, as all of the Citadel and GW guides show complete assembly before painting. There are some cases where this is virtually required - especially with metal models that might need to be pinned or have gaps filled with Green Stuff - but I just can't get past trying to paint the chest eagle around a bolt gun that's been glued in place.

I'll have to come back later and take a look at your gallery...

The chest eagles were exactly the problem. Nice to see another player of Blood Angels around!

I am going to be constructing a lightbox for better miniature photography..

[smiling bandit]

I wan to model a Space Mareine (http://sanity-x.deviantart.com/gallery/31503996#/d4b6oqr) army. Right after I finish my Dark Eldeer (http://sanity-x.deviantart.com/art/Ponyhammer-Races-Evil-Edition-285713817?q=gallery%3Asanity-x%2F157279&qo=3) set. And of course, Equestrian Guard (http://sanity-x.deviantart.com/art/Ponyhammer-Races-210535998?q=gallery%3Asanity-x%2F157279&qo=16) is more proppa...

[psiekier]

I wan to model a Space Mareine (http://sanity-x.deviantart.com/gallery/31503996#/d4b6oqr) army. Right after I finish my Dark Eldeer (http://sanity-x.deviantart.com/art/Ponyhammer-Races-Evil-Edition-285713817?q=gallery%3Asanity-x%2F157279&qo=3) set. And of course, Equestrian Guard (http://sanity-x.deviantart.com/art/Ponyhammer-Races-210535998?q=gallery%3Asanity-x%2F157279&qo=16) is more proppa...I friggin' love Ponycorns! (http://ponycorns.com/)

5 Tactical Marines (from a paint set I purchased ages ago)I was gonna ask where you got those plastic Second-Edition marines until I read this. I think I have one full squad left unpainted, but the bitz show up in other places in my army (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/blood_angels/missile_launcher.jpg).

Your Blood Angels look very good, crisp and clean. The bases add a nice characteristic touch; I'm ashamed to say that I have used three or four different basing methods over the years, and the lack of unity detracts from my army when I put all the models out together. If I had the time and motivation, I'd go back and re-do the stand-outs... maybe I'll get to it some day when my son gets a little older.

You mention putting unit insignia on later... might I also suggest painting the raised edges of the shoulder guards black for the squadboyz? That's the "Chapter Approved" color for Blood Angel squadboyz (sergeants' shoulder colors are reversed, with yellow chapter insignia), and it breaks up the model nicely...

... plus it gives you a chance to paint and highlight something that isn't red. Death Company (black uniforms) and Librarians (blue uniforms) are good for that, too.

[CandidGamera]

I friggin' love Ponycorns! (http://ponycorns.com/)

I was gonna ask where you got those plastic Second-Edition marines until I read this. I think I have one full squad left unpainted, but the bitz show up in other places in my army (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/blood_angels/missile_launcher.jpg).

Your Blood Angels look very good, crisp and clean. The bases add a nice characteristic touch; I'm ashamed to say that I have used three or four different basing methods over the years, and the lack of unity detracts from my army when I put all the models out together. If I had the time and motivation, I'd go back and re-do the stand-outs... maybe I'll get to it some day when my son gets a little older.

You mention putting unit insignia on later... might I also suggest painting the raised edges of the shoulder guards black for the squadboyz? That's the "Chapter Approved" color for Blood Angel squadboyz (sergeants' shoulder colors are reversed, with yellow chapter insignia), and it breaks up the model nicely...

... plus it gives you a chance to paint and highlight something that isn't red. Death Company (black uniforms) and Librarians (blue uniforms) are good for that, too.

Thanks! I do see why other folks aren't seeing the detail I put in, though - the lighting just was not good enough to show it - and I do favor a slightly subtler painting style than the usual Warhammer standard. I mean, I think the exaggerated colors look good, but they also seem less 'real' to me.

I've actually just finished some lightboxes to attempt some better photography.

You bring up a very good point, about the typical squad markings, and the reason I haven't done anything with their shoulderpads is because I haven't fully decided what I want to do yet. I know I am going to deviate from the blood angels' standard a little bit, at least - I think the 'helmet color' thing for squad types is goofy, and I think, instead, I may color the 'mohawk' on the helmet instead of the whole thing. And I don't know if I want to freehand the chapter insignia, use transfer sheets, or what as far as the shoulders go.

And thanks for the kind words on the bases. I'm pleased with how they turned out, though they didn't come along quite as easily as I'd hoped. I had a vision in my head of a long-disused brick road with moss and grass overwhelming it, and the effect worked pretty well after I found the right color for the bricks.

[psiekier]

You bring up a very good point, about the typical squad markings, and the reason I haven't done anything with their shoulderpads is because I haven't fully decided what I want to do yet. I know I am going to deviate from the blood angels' standard a little bit, at least - I think the 'helmet color' thing for squad types is goofy, and I think, instead, I may color the 'mohawk' on the helmet instead of the whole thing. And I don't know if I want to freehand the chapter insignia, use transfer sheets, or what as far as the shoulders go.Officially, in First Edition, Blood Angels used helmet stripes like everybody else and their gauntlets were a darker shade of red than the "terracotta" color of the armour. This evolved in Second Edition when GW released Angels of Death and both the Blood Angels and Dark Angels were revealed to have deviated substantially from the Codex.

The transfer sheets from the old bike sets seems to work best, as the chapter symbols are slightly smaller there than on the tactical or devastator sheets. Given the width of the Blood Angels icon, I’ve found that if you’re having trouble getting it to stick properly to the shoulder guard’s curved surface that you can cut the “wings” free from the blood drop and position the three pieces separately.

Once I get the icon on, I usually go back and add some highlights (usually a white “shine” to the blood drop) or paint over the transfer’s edges if I see something I don’t like. It’s worked better sometimes than others.

The helmet color I can take or leave – I just do it to be Chapter Approved. I really dig the differing squad insignia on the knee guards, though. This is something unique to the Blood Angels, as other chapters note squad number on the right shoulder guard. Unfortunately, I have a large number of First Edition beekees featuring the straight Mk VI-style greaves with no knee-guards. It sure makes them hard to tell apart!

And thanks for the kind words on the bases. I'm pleased with how they turned out, though they didn't come along quite as easily as I'd hoped. I had a vision in my head of a long-disused brick road with moss and grass overwhelming it, and the effect worked pretty well after I found the right color for the bricks.Apparently, my Blood Angels only fight on perfectly manicured green meadows... :rolleyes:

[CandidGamera]

Apparently, my Blood Angels only fight on perfectly manicured green meadows... :rolleyes:

Well, that's a step above each of them bringing their own tiny black dais to the war zone. :)

[Hypno-Toad]

Sorry I didn't get back to you quicker. They look great. Very clean with no brush strokes or overlap errors visible. Certainly better than my work. There's only one thing that bugs me and it's personal preference. I always paint the underside of the shoulders black to create depth and shadow. I definitely like that you paint the flexible joints at the backs of the knees and at the hips black. I guess Star Wars Storm Troopers made that the only right way for it to look in my mind. I also like the brick and grass bases. What did you make the bricks out of?

[psiekier]

So maybe I could start painting again, if I find the time and the motivation... like most GW enthusiasts, I have a stock of unpainted models that - had they their arms and weapons - would surely lay waste to what I actually have painted.

My first round of pictures didn't come out too well, but here are some that would impress if I could get them finished up:

First Edition Exo-Armour (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/WIP/WIP_first_terminator01.jpg) (prototype Tactical Dreadnought or "Terminator" Armour)

... and a trio of Blood Angels (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/WIP/WIP_blood_angel_trio01.jpg) intended to flesh out the Third Company's Fourth Squad (Tactical); from left to right, a Mk IV Imperium Maximus suit, a Second Edition Veteran Sergeant with bionic eye and power axe, and a Mk VIII Errant Armour.

[Grumman]

I've known about these guys for a while, but now that they're actually shipping their first kit I thought I'd bring them up.

Defiance Games (http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/markos-paints-marines)

I haven't seen the models in person, but if anyone is looking for cheap Imperial Guard and likes what these guys look like, they're an option.

[CandidGamera]

So maybe I could start painting again, if I find the time and the motivation... like most GW enthusiasts, I have a stock of unpainted models that - had they their arms and weapons - would surely lay waste to what I actually have painted.

My first round of pictures didn't come out too well, but here are some that would impress if I could get them finished up:

First Edition Exo-Armour (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/WIP/WIP_first_terminator01.jpg) (prototype Tactical Dreadnought or "Terminator" Armour)

... and a trio of Blood Angels (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/WIP/WIP_blood_angel_trio01.jpg) intended to flesh out the Third Company's Fourth Squad (Tactical); from left to right, a Mk IV Imperium Maximus suit, a Second Edition Veteran Sergeant with bionic eye and power axe, and a Mk VIII Errant Armour.

Oh, wow, that exo-armor is a very cool model.

[CandidGamera]

Sorry I didn't get back to you quicker. They look great. Very clean with no brush strokes or overlap errors visible. Certainly better than my work. There's only one thing that bugs me and it's personal preference. I always paint the underside of the shoulders black to create depth and shadow. I definitely like that you paint the flexible joints at the backs of the knees and at the hips black. I guess Star Wars Storm Troopers made that the only right way for it to look in my mind. I also like the brick and grass bases. What did you make the bricks out of?

Yeah, I waffled on the underside of the shoulders - I think one of them may be my final 'base' color under there, and the rest may be the slightly darker red that I use as a pre-coat. That's something I may fix before sealing. I'm also thinking of doing a black ink wash over them to see if that looks good - I'll do one of them and see how it turns out.

The bricks were a bit of inspiration that hit me early on in the process, but they didn't go *Quite* as smoothly as I wanted. They are made from a comic book backing board - essentially, cardstock, with a semi-glossy coating on one side - that I scored in a 'brick' pattern using a ruler and the metal tip (with lead retracted) of a mechanical pencil.

What I didn't realize was that the paint has enough water in it to cause the grooves I scored to lose a lot of their depth. It's still there, but it was hard to see.

I experimented with a couple of color combinations, but what finally seemed to work for me on my samples was tracing the grooves with a fine-tip marker pen, painting the bricks a light tan color (thinned a little so as not to obscure the pen's marks), and then going over the whole thing with a brown ink wash. This produced nice, sandy-yellow bricks.

At least, that worked on my sample. When I did the ones I'd already glued to the bases, the ink wash came on a little heavy, making them look more like wood than sandy stone. So I did a 50/50 mix of the brown ink and the tan basecoat to color in the centers of the bricks - it came out a nice little shade of grey, bizarrely, but I love it.

[Kobal2]

So maybe I could start painting again, if I find the time and the motivation... like most GW enthusiasts, I have a stock of unpainted models that - had they their arms and weapons - would surely lay waste to what I actually have painted.

My first round of pictures didn't come out too well, but here are some that would impress if I could get them finished up:

First Edition Exo-Armour (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/WIP/WIP_first_terminator01.jpg) (prototype Tactical Dreadnought or "Terminator" Armour)

... and a trio of Blood Angels (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/WIP/WIP_blood_angel_trio01.jpg) intended to flesh out the Third Company's Fourth Squad (Tactical); from left to right, a Mk IV Imperium Maximus suit, a Second Edition Veteran Sergeant with bionic eye and power axe, and a Mk VIII Errant Armour.

I gotta admit, even though I put down my pots & minis a long time ago... I'm kinda jealous of people who still have beakies lying around (even more so the beakies posted a little further upthread that still have the huge rivets on the boots & smaller shoulderpads).
That design was the shit. The new one is OK I suppose, but it's no beakie.

[Hypno-Toad]

I gotta admit, even though I put down my pots & minis a long time ago... I'm kinda jealous of people who still have beakies lying around (even more so the beakies posted a little further upthread that still have the huge rivets on the boots & smaller shoulderpads).
That design was the shit. The new one is OK I suppose, but it's no beakie.

Yeah, the RTB01 Beakie box was awesome. 30 Marines for less than a dollar each. It really encouraged experimenting. Especially since they were plastic and could be cut up easily.

[psiekier]

Yeah, the RTB01 Beakie box was awesome. 30 Marines for less than a dollar each. It really encouraged experimenting. Especially since they were plastic and could be cut up easily.Well, I'm no Tom Schadle... besides, you'll have to remember how long ago I painted these guys (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/blood_angels/RTB01_beekees01.jpg).

"Bee-kee" is the Ork word for "Space Marine". :D

[Odesio]

I just got back into painting WH stuff. I have most of a Space Marine Army that I started painting as Templars years ago. I don't think I want to continue with Templars though. I thought about painting some Imperial Guards as a penal army. Orange jumpsuits, black & white stripes with the officers being prison guards.

[Hypno-Toad]

I wonder how much of the advice in this thread has been rendered moot by GW changing to the new paints?

[Odesio]

I wonder how much of the advice in this thread has been rendered moot by GW changing to the new paints?

Heh. I just got back into painting right as GW was making the switch. I like the new paints. White goes on a lot smoother than the old version and actually covers what you're painting now. The glazes and washes are convenient but I haven't used any of their dry or textured paints. It's annoying that they've changed the name of some of their colors though. Boltgun Metal is now Leadbelcher (I think) and Chaos Black is now
Abbadon Black. I hear this was done so other companies couldn't use the same names for their paints but I don't know if it's true.

[CandidGamera]

I *assume* the name changes were so that they could trademark them. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

ETA : The new paint system doesn't affect me in the slightest, as I don't use GW paints.

[CandidGamera]

I've signed up for a couple of Warhammer events at Origins where models will be provided. The more familiarity I can get with actually playing the game, the better.

I've got all the elements of my photography set-up ready now, so maybe I can take a second crack at those pictures soon.

[Hypno-Toad]

You know, there are podcasts online of warhammer games with commentary. They discuss tactics, gameplay and such. Maybe those can help.

[CandidGamera]

I've seen some clips on YouTube, but honestly, I've got so much I want to do right now, I can't spare hours to watch one in detail.

[psiekier]

You know, there are podcasts online of warhammer games with commentary. They discuss tactics, gameplay and such. Maybe those can help.It's not that hard, Hypno-Toad/ Just remember:


If you think you can beat the Tyranids in hand-to-hand combat, you're wrong. Yes, I know you have... but you're still wrong.
Dreadnought power fists are neat. If you think they make your dreadnought a match for a Wraithlord or other similarly-sized model with Toughness and Wounds, you're wrong.
Expensive wargear, legendary commanders, and flashy unit choices make your army look snazzy. If you think this can save you when you're outnumbered 4-to-1 by Orks that get three attacks each in an assault, you're wrong.
Corollary to #3: You can't possibly shoot them all.
Eldar are a dying race. That's why there are so darn many of them.
Dark Eldar are a small offshoot of their dying parent race, whose entire society is contained in a single city hidden somewhere beyond the Webway. That's why there are even more of them.
The rest of the Tau army really is there just to stand in front of the guys armed with railguns.
Space Marine Land Raiders aren't as tough you think they are.
Necron Monoliths are as tough as you think they are.
Plasma weapons are totally worth it. (http://www.peteandkellie.com/images/wh40k/demotivators_plasma_weapons.jpg)

[Grumman]

A heads up for everyone: Games Workshop is raising their prices again this weekend. So if you still buy GW models, do so before the 28th.

[CandidGamera]

A heads up for everyone: Games Workshop is raising their prices again this weekend. So if you still buy GW models, do so before the 28th.

Really? Geez. Well, I've bought everything I should need for a while..

[psiekier]

Really? Geez. Well, I've bought everything I should need for a while..Me too - or just about. I've got enough marines to complete the Blood Angels' Third Company (http://www.peteandkellie.com/wh40k/images/blood_angels/blood_angels_third_company_WIP.jpg), but I need to rebase my terminators and I can't find the little baggy of extra-large terminator bases I had purchased. I know I owned them, but they seem to have vanished!

[Odesio]

I lucked out. My local game store had a 20% sale on GW items including anything they had to special order. I took advantage by purchasing a Space Marine Battle Force, Captain Lysander, a Terminator Squad and some shoulder pads & other bitz.

[Namkcalb]

It's not that hard, Hypno-Toad/ Just remember:


Eldar are a dying race. That's why there are so darn many of them.
Dark Eldar are a small offshoot of their dying parent race, whose entire society is contained in a single city hidden somewhere beyond the Webway. That's why there are even more of them.

In a universe of a million populated worlds, The countless billions of Eldar on thousands of planet-sized starships count as a few.

As for the Dark Eldar... sure they have one city... but they have a large proportion of the refugees from an galaxy-wide civilisation and they don't have to limit themselves to three-dimensions in the webway.

[bowlweevils]

Squats dammit Squats. Chaos Squats.

[Kobal2]

Squats dammit Squats. Chaos Squats.

Squats have never existed and if you own or come into possession of squat-related material you will destroy it this very instant. Good. There is no such thing as squat-related material because squats have never existed.

Glad we could come to the agreement that there's no such thing as a squat, nor has there ever been. Carry on. OR ELSE.

[psiekier]

Squats have never existed and if you own or come into possession of squat-related material you will destroy it this very instant. Good. There is no such thing as squat-related material because squats have never existed.

Glad we could come to the agreement that there's no such thing as a squat, nor has there ever been. Carry on. OR ELSE.They're still there, they've just taken to the stars (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/GOTHIC-DEMIURG-STRONGHOLD-SHIP.html).

[Hypno-Toad]

Man, I had the chaos squats BAD two days ago. No more orc food for me.

[Odesio]

I'd like to get a bunch of squats and use them in an Imperial army. So long as they're armed with lascannons I should be able to use them as Imperial Guards.

[Kobal2]

I'd like to get a bunch of squats and use them in an Imperial army. So long as they're armed with lascannons I should be able to use them as Imperial Guards.

Nah, like Gretchins they get disproportionate benefits from terrain :D

[CandidGamera]

Got to play in a Warhammer game at Origins - a few squads of Imperial Guard having to hold out five turns against a fully-stocked squad of Genestealers. Fun!

[Hypno-Toad]

Got to play in a Warhammer game at Origins - a few squads of Imperial Guard having to hold out five turns against a fully-stocked squad of Genestealers. Fun!

Sometimes those little mini-games are the most fun. Also, they let you test out configurations and tactics without all the hoopla of a full-sized battle.

[CandidGamera]

And honestly, the more experience I can get with the game, the better.

[Grumman]

A few more things people might be interested in:

- One of Games Workshop's competitors is currently running a Kickstarter for their fantasy range, due to finish in about 24 hours. If you like their work (I don't) and want to start a Warhammer Fantasy army, this would be a cheap way of picking some up.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war

- Warhammer 40,000 6th edition preorders have just started. Rumours can be found on forums like Warseer, but any Space Marine fans will probably want to wait a few months for the boxed set, as it's apparently going to be Space Marines vs. Chaos Space Marines.

- Defiance Games' Hudson's Bugs are apparently just about to start shipping, and they've released the first version of their free skirmish-level ruleset. They're behind schedule as usual, but the price is right. Next kits on the list are Panzergrenadiers (future Germans), UAMC Hardsuits (American power armour) and female UAMC (female American Marines).

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/forum/alien-war-rules-discussion/7796-alien-war-beta-rules-downloads

[CandidGamera]

I wonder what they'll do in 6th Edition to piss everyone off.. can't have a revision without pissing everyone off! :)

[awldune]

Defiance Games' Hudson's Bugs are apparently just about to start shipping, and they've released the first version of their free skirmish-level ruleset. They're behind schedule as usual, but the price is right. Next kits on the list are Panzergrenadiers (future Germans), UAMC Hardsuits (American power armour) and female UAMC (female American Marines).

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/forum/alien-war-rules-discussion/7796-alien-war-beta-rules-downloads

They have a set of 24 soldier miniatures for $30. Would be pretty sweet if you play Imperial Guard.

[Grumman]

I wonder what they'll do in 6th Edition to piss everyone off.. can't have a revision without pissing everyone off! :)
At the moment it sounds like two things:

#1: Random = Fun!
Random powers for psykers, random benefits for generals, random charge distances, random dangerous terrain...

#2: Allies for everyone (except Tyranids)!
Some of the options are pretty stupid (like psyker-hating Black Templars and nothing-but-psykers Eldar), but also the belief that it's going to further push everyone towards using one or two overpowered armies.

[CandidGamera]

So, an update. I still haven't finished painting a 500 points force, because I had a bit of a lull - but I'm actually back on track - assembling, painting. I've picked up and skimmed the new 6th Edition rules. I've decided my Blood Angels could occasionally benefit from some Inquisition allies.

I am having a bit of a headache assembling tactical marines. The arms are the problem - getting them to line up so that they can properly hold the model's gun is tricky sometimes, and none of the adhesive options are really good. Plastic cement's too fragile; it and krazy glue don't really give much time to 'adjust' the fit, and green stuff sometimes does the job, but sometimes gives a hold that is deceptively weak.

I'm debating whether or not it's worth doing magnetized swappable weapons for some guys, or if I should just make my choices in assembly and live with them. Not that the sprues I have give me most of the heavy weapons options - would it be too much trouble to include a lascannon or a couple of storm bolters, GW? Geez.

[smiling bandit]

I never did get into the game. Money and time were big issues and it simply wasn't worth it. That said, I honestly enjoy reading the codexes and in particular coming up with concepts for armies n' such. If they ever follow-through on makinng electronic versions of the rules, I might well take that up.

[psiekier]

I am having a bit of a headache assembling tactical marines. The arms are the problem - getting them to line up so that they can properly hold the model's gun is tricky sometimes, and none of the adhesive options are really good. Plastic cement's too fragile; it and krazy glue don't really give much time to 'adjust' the fit, and green stuff sometimes does the job, but sometimes gives a hold that is deceptively weak.Use a cyanoacrylate gel. I use a pin vise to drill small holes in sides of the torso, then matching holes through the shoulders on the arms. after that, clip out a small length of a paperclip to pin them with, and the glue will hold just fine. The arms and guns are made to fit together perfectly; it just takes a little practice to get it right.

I'm debating whether or not it's worth doing magnetized swappable weapons for some guys, or if I should just make my choices in assembly and live with them. Not that the sprues I have give me most of the heavy weapons options - would it be too much trouble to include a lascannon or a couple of storm bolters, GW? Geez.Magnetized limbs are great for sergeants or other leaders who frequently need to change load-outs in between games; not to mention models who often conveniently carry two single-handed weapons. Most squadboyz tend to have bog-standard kit that rarely - if ever - changes.

Since a tactical squad may have only one special weapon and one heavy weapon, you don't need more than a handful of other guys to fill in if you decide to make changes there. I have multiple special weapons painted up for most squads, and can swap out the models as I like. In fact, since I rarely use all my tactical squads at once, more commonly I find my choice of squad determined by which weapons I am likely to need the most!

[CandidGamera]

Use a cyanoacrylate gel. I use a pin vise to drill small holes in sides of the torso, then matching holes through the shoulders on the arms. after that, clip out a small length of a paperclip to pin them with, and the glue will hold just fine. The arms and guns are made to fit together perfectly; it just takes a little practice to get it right.

They're made to fit together, but the angle of the arms still has to match one another for the gun to be cradled by both hands.

And I really don't want to have to pin every damn joint. I shouldn't have to pin plastic at all.

Is cyanoacrylate gel different from plain old superglue?

Magnetized limbs are great for sergeants or other leaders who frequently need to change load-outs in between games; not to mention models who often conveniently carry two single-handed weapons. Most squadboyz tend to have bog-standard kit that rarely - if ever - changes.

Since a tactical squad may have only one special weapon and one heavy weapon, you don't need more than a handful of other guys to fill in if you decide to make changes there. I have multiple special weapons painted up for most squads, and can swap out the models as I like. In fact, since I rarely use all my tactical squads at once, more commonly I find my choice of squad determined by which weapons I am likely to need the most!

Right now I'm leaning towards saving my magnets for the vehicles. Because of the bonus Tac Marines I have from an old GW paint set, I can do : 14 boltguns, 2 missile launchers, 2 flamers, 1 plasma gun, 1 melta gun, and 3 sergeants; with one tac marine model to spare if I ever find another suitable heavy or special weapon.

That gives me two full squads, and three sergeant options. I think that'll do for now.

[XanderCrews]

Well I decided to pull out my old armies this week and dust them off. I've got Dark Eldar and Sisters, with a little bit of Imperial Guard.

Honestly though I was getting bored of them when I put them away a couple years ago, so I'm thinking of making some Chaos Space Marines or Dark Angels.

Any opinions on those two armies for modeling and gaming?

[CandidGamera]

I'm no expert, but I'd guess there's no better time to get into those two armies, since they're in the beginner box together.

[davidklk]

Hmm listening to this chat makes me want to pull out the paint pots again.

Never was much into the actual game wierdly - I always felt out of place while playing (and was never any good) but enjoyed converting and painting the models - though I wasnt too great at that either, but it was fun.

[Grumman]

Plastic cement's too fragile...
Let me guess... you're using GW's own brand of plastic cement?

If you are, throw it away.

[CandidGamera]

Let me guess... you're using GW's own brand of plastic cement?

If you are, throw it away.

Nah. Testor's. Does okay for some joins, but the arms, not so much. I don't know if they're getting nudged and preventing the join from setting up, or if I'm using too much, or what.

[Hypno-Toad]

I find that a tiny, tiny bit of blue-tac is good for holding one arm in place while you position and glue the other.

[CandidGamera]

I'd actually used poster putty for a similar purpose - I just used a bit much, so it was annoying to scrape off.

[smiling bandit]

Random weird question: if they did make a digital version of the tabletop game (rather than an "adaptation" into an existing game genre), would you players like the ability to create your own army, complete with customized models, with different layers of paint, custom-positioned gear, and such? Maybe an Abbadon figure lacking arms entirely? Or would that be too much to fool with for most players? Perhaps have a random model creation for people who don't play?

I don't know that Games Workshop would want to do so lest they lose their valuable tabletop income, but I thought the idea was cute.