Birther removes his mask.

[davidm]

Or maybe I should say puts on his white hood.
Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s Of The “Mulatto” Racehttp://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/latest-national/31089-suit-says-obama-cant-run-in-alaska-because-hes-of-the-mulatto-race.html

The PDF of the filing shows that the suit brings up the usual nonsense about birth certificates, establishing Mr Epperly's bona fides as a birther. But it goes further.
http://www.turningleft.net/images/director-for-the-division-of-elections.pdf

Barack Hussein Obama II is not a "natural born Citizen" of the United States

As stated above, for an individual to be a Candidate for the Office of President ot the United States, the Candidate must meet the qualifications as set forth in the United States Constitution and one of those qualifications is that the Candidate shall be a "natural born Citizen" of the United States. As Barack Hussein Obama II is of the "Mulatto" race, his status of citizenship is founded upon the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Before the [purported] ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, the race of "Negro" or "Mulatto" had no standing to be citizens of the United States under the United States Constitution.

As the Fourteenth Amendment is only a grand of "Civil Rights" and not a grant of "Political Rights," Barack Hussein Obama II does not have any "Political Rights" under any provision of the United States Constitution to hold any Public Office of the United States government. Furthermore, there is considerable debate within the enclosed supporting documents that shows Barack Hussein Obama II was not born on the soil of the United States and that he was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of hist birth.
Seriously, how can these people be for real? "Mulatto race"? Seriously?

[lawoot]

Wow. A Birther finally comes out and admits that yes, he IS a racist ass.

[Kolak of Twilo]

*zoinks*

Consider my mind thoroughly boggled.

[joebuck20]

AHHHAAAAA! I knew it.

[Marley23]

I'm shocked that the thing we always knew was true turned out to be true.


You know- I think I need a minute here.

[Jack Batty]

I believe the judge's ruling will read something like this:

"What the fuck? Case dismissed."

[Esox Lucius]

I suppose it's at least refreshing to see one of them finally show his true colours.

Google the guy's name and you'll end up smack dab in the middle of downtown Whackville. He wrote this document (.pdf) (http://www.natural-person.ca/pdf/Memorandum_of_Law_on_the_Name.pdf) proving that the gummint is deceiving us by printing proper names in all caps in legal and legislative documents, and therefore (very last sentence), "The only courts today are statutory commercial tribunals collecting tribute (plunder) from the alleged Creditors who think they have conquered the country on their way to ruling the world."

The pdf file says it was written anonymously, but the page it is linked from (http://www.natural-person.ca/capital.html) says "by Gordon Warren Epperley and Lightbringer - we have been told". Since it doesn't read GORDON WARREN EPPERLEY, it must be true.

[Andy L]

The pdf file says it was written anonymously, but the page it is linked from (http://www.natural-person.ca/capital.html) says "by Gordon Warren Epperley and Lightbringer - we have been told". Since it doesn't read GORDON WARREN EPPERLEY, it must be true.

Lightbringer? why not just say Lucifer, and be done with it?

[BrainGlutton]

Before the [purported] ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, the race of "Negro" or "Mulatto" had no standing to be citizens of the United States under the United States Constitution.

Sad part is, dude's probably right about that. If there had been no Civil War amendments, and the Dred Scott decision had been allowed to stand . . .

[chorpler]

I like that it mentions the "purported" ratification of the fourteenth amendment. Does he detail why it was only purportedly ratified? I thought those kinds of arguments were usually reserved for the sixteenth amendment.

[DSeid]

As crazy as the Birthers are, this example of one being deranged whacko racist crazy is not evidence that all of "these people" are racist. And we need no additional evidence to be able to call them deranged whacko crazy.

Sure the racists will often be Birthers, but you really can be a deranged whacko without being a racist as well.

[grude]

As crazy as the Birthers are, this example of one being deranged whacko racist crazy is not evidence that all of "these people" are racist. And we need no additional evidence to be able to call them deranged whacko crazy.

Sure the racists will often be Birthers, but you really can be a deranged whacko without being a racist as well.

John Cain was born in Panama, under legal loopholes that had to be fixed via legislation so he would be a citizen. Obama was born inside the goddamn USA, so why weren't the birthers howling in rage about McCain?

[Folacin]

I like that it mentions the "purported" ratification of the fourteenth amendment. Does he detail why it was only purportedly ratified? I thought those kinds of arguments were usually reserved for the sixteenth amendment.

I think 'purported' because the states that had seceded didn't ratify and weren't counted to determine what number was needed for 3/4?

[Exapno Mapcase]

As crazy as the Birthers are, this example of one being deranged whacko racist crazy is not evidence that all of "these people" are racist. And we need no additional evidence to be able to call them deranged whacko crazy.

Sure the racists will often be Birthers, but you really can be a deranged whacko without being a racist as well.

I would agree in general, but not in this particular. Birtherism is inherently racist, a reaction against the "Other". This whacko is overt about the racism rather than covert, but reading birther commentary shows that this is part of a continuum rather than an exception.

[Rachellelogram]

If nutjobs who file nuisance suits could/would be slapped with fines for contempt, maybe they'd fucking stop.

[pravnik]

If nutjobs who file nuisance suits could/would be slapped with fines for contempt, maybe they'd fucking stop.I doubt it. A federal judge hit Orly Taitz with a $20,000 fine for misconduct about two years ago and she's still going strong.

[Frank]

I think 'purported' because the states that had seceded didn't ratify and weren't counted to determine what number was needed for 3/4?
Those states were required by the Reconstruction Acts to (among other things) ratify the Fourteenth Amendment to resume full representation in Congress. Some do not view the Reconstruction Acts as constitutional.

[Northern Piper]

Plus, Ohio and New Jersey passed the amendment, then tried to rescind their ratifications.

[appleciders]

John Cain was born in Panama, under legal loopholes that had to be fixed via legislation so he would be a citizen. Obama was born inside the goddamn USA, so why weren't the birthers howling in rage about McCain?

Who's John Cain? ;)

[suranyi]

I suppose it's at least refreshing to see one of them finally show his true colours.

Google the guy's name and you'll end up smack dab in the middle of downtown Whackville. He wrote this document (.pdf) (http://www.natural-person.ca/pdf/Memorandum_of_Law_on_the_Name.pdf) proving that the gummint is deceiving us by printing proper names in all caps in legal and legislative documents, and therefore (very last sentence), "The only courts today are statutory commercial tribunals collecting tribute (plunder) from the alleged Creditors who think they have conquered the country on their way to ruling the world."

The pdf file says it was written anonymously, but the page it is linked from (http://www.natural-person.ca/capital.html) says "by Gordon Warren Epperley and Lightbringer - we have been told". Since it doesn't read GORDON WARREN EPPERLEY, it must be true.

Does he mention anything about a gold fringe?

[Alley Dweller]

As crazy as the Birthers are, this example of one being deranged whacko racist crazy is not evidence that all of "these people" are racist. And we need no additional evidence to be able to call them deranged whacko crazy.

Sure the racists will often be Birthers, but you really can be a deranged whacko without being a racist as well. Certainly.
Donald Trump, for example, has always had a "great relationship with the Blacks. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/04/donald-trump-blacks-2012-presidential-race-/1)"

[Frank]

Plus, Ohio and New Jersey passed the amendment, then tried to rescind their ratifications.
They both rescinded their rescindments in 2003. :) The amendment has been ratified by all 37 states that were states at the times. Not counting Ohio and New Jersey, the last was Kentucky in 1976.

[Frank]

Who's John Cain? ;)
Yippy-ki-yay, Mr. Falcon.

[BrainGlutton]

I like that it mentions the "purported" ratification of the fourteenth amendment. Does he detail why it was only purportedly ratified? I thought those kinds of arguments were usually reserved for the sixteenth amendment.

I think there are some who reject the validity of the 13th (slavery abolished), 14th and 15th (right to vote regardless of race, etc.), the Civil War Amendments or Reconstruction Amendments, not sure on what grounds, perhaps that they were ratified by the Northern states only (the Southern being under military occupation).

[BrainGlutton]

Those states were required by the Reconstruction Acts to (among other things) ratify the Fourteenth Amendment to resume full representation in Congress. Some do not view the Reconstruction Acts as constitutional.

Ah. Should've read that first.

[BrainGlutton]

I read the Complaint -- I notice that the point quoted in the OP, that the 14th Amendment confers "civil" but not "political" rights (therefore Negroes still can't hold public office) is not argued or discussed any further, nor is case authority cited, he then just goes straight into the born-on-soil stuff. As if that were a fact known to all and not worth further comment.

[MEBuckner]

Before the [purported] ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, the race of "Negro" or "Mulatto" had no standing to be citizens of the United States under the United States Constitution.
Sad part is, dude's probably right about that. If there had been no Civil War amendments, and the Dred Scott decision had been allowed to stand . . .
Insofar as it held that no State could act to make a "Negro" a citizen of the United States Dred Scott was sheer judicial activism. Prior to the Reconstruction Amendments, the Constitution says nothing about the issue one way or the other, meaning that it would have properly been a matter for states to decide who their citizens were, and (again notwithstanding what Chief Justice Taney may have pulled out of his ass), there is nothing in the pre-Reconstruction Constitution one way or the other to indicate the existence of any hypothetical class of persons (discernible by Chief Justice Taney) who were citizens of a state without being citizens of the United States. Note that Massachusetts had, by its own laws, abolished slavery six years before the adoption of the U.S. Constitution. If Massachusetts said that its former slaves were now citizens, then there wasn't a damned thing South Carolina et al. could do about it.

It's also worth pointing out that Dred Scott specifically held that it was "persons only whose ancestors were negroes of the African race, and imported into this country, and sold and held as slaves" who could not be made into citizens of the United States. This of course does not apply to President Obama, since although his father was undoubtedly a "negro of the African race", President Obama's ancestors had not been "imported into this country, and sold and held as slaves". Thus, even if we (for some bizarre reason) uphold Dred Scott and discard the Fourteenth Amendment, the laws of the State of Hawaii would still govern whether or not President Obama was a citizen at birth.

[Ennui]

Does he mention anything about a gold fringe?

Perhaps not but he is one of them thar Sovereign Citizens, domaintools.com tells us that usa-the-republic.com (http://usa-the-republic.com/index.html) is one of Gordon's websites. All the "sovereign" lunacy you can ask for with a healthy dose of tax denier rhetoric all topped off with heaping helpings of conspiracy theories. People this twisted in the head I find more to pitty about them than anything else, as long as they don't go full on "Jerry Kane" about their beliefs.

[Frank]

Note that Massachusetts had, by its own laws, abolished slavery six years before the adoption of the U.S. Constitution.
Blacks (assuming they met the other qualifications (property, religion, etc.)) could vote in Massachusetts and a few other (but not all) Northern states.

A benefit that few note is that the Reconstruction Amendments affected the North as well as the South. The Fifteenth was extremely difficult to ratify due to opposition for different excuses from all parts of the country.

[Chicagojeff]

"Mulatto".. I just had to explain to a white southern male friend and co-worker or mine that if he were to call anyone this to his face it would probably get punch in.. Since when has "Mulatto" suddenly re-entered to vogue of sane civil conversation??

[MEBuckner]

"Mulatto".. I just had to explain to a white southern male friend and co-worker or mine that if he were to call anyone this to his face it would probably get punch in.. Since when has "Mulatto" suddenly re-entered to vogue of sane civil conversation??
I think your question kind of contains a false assumption there.

[davidm]

"Mulatto".. I just had to explain to a white southern male friend and co-worker or mine that if he were to call anyone this to his face it would probably get punch in.. Since when has "Mulatto" suddenly re-entered to vogue of sane civil conversation??
Who says that it has?

[Airman Doors, USAF]

"Mulatto".. I just had to explain to a white southern male friend and co-worker or mine that if he were to call anyone this to his face it would probably get punch in.. Since when has "Mulatto" suddenly re-entered to vogue of sane civil conversation??

It's been on the tip of everyone's tongue since 1991 and is said thousands of times a day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg&ob=av3e). Nobody to my knowledge has ever been punched in the face for it.

[Little Nemo]

Amazing. Here's a guy that's an embarrassment to the Birthers.

That's got to be like getting kicked out of NAMBLA.

[Esox Lucius]

Lightbringer? why not just say Lucifer, and be done with it?

Oh no, it's gotta be sooper sekrit or teh hollow earth reptilian gummint ajints will be on to him.

Does he mention anything about a gold fringe?

I had to google "gold fringe" and I am now stoopiderer. Thanks a lot. :)

I only read a few pages of his earth-shattering report before I skipped to the end. He probably doesn't get into the gold fringe thing cuz, you know, proper names in all caps is too important to let his mind get sidetracked.

[msmith537]

Seriously, how can these people be for real? "Mulatto race"? Seriously?


You freaked out when I said "Quadroon".

[davidm]

You freaked out when I said "Quadroon".I did?

[BrainGlutton]

That Halle Berry, she is one hot mulattress.

(No, I didn't make up that word.)

[BrainGlutton]

Amazing. Here's a guy that's an embarrassment to the Birthers.

That's got to be like getting kicked out of NAMBLA.

:mad: "Puppies? Seriously?! Puppies?! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog) Don't come to the meetings no more."

[BrainGlutton]

You freaked out when I said "Quadroon".

Is she a Yellow Rose of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Rose_of_Texas)?

[neofishboy]

I did?



Archer reference. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH47r58X2lA)

[davidm]

Archer reference. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH47r58X2lA)Ah. I should have realized it was some kind of reference. I'm not familiar with Archer. I guess if it's being referenced on the Dope then it'll be worth my time to check it out.

Now, back to our regular thread...

[Exapno Mapcase]

Is she a Yellow Rose of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Rose_of_Texas)?

Here's an interesting thread (http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=14506) that talks about high yellow women, "The Yellow Rose of Texas," Leadbelly's "Yellow Gal," and more. It started in 1999 and was zombified in 2008.

And what's really weird, it ain't from us, although it sure sounds like us.

[Der Trihs]

Birther removes his mask.Ah, so they're lizards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians) after all? I knew it!

[foolsguinea]

"Mulatto".. I just had to explain to a white southern male friend and co-worker or mine that if he were to call anyone this to his face it would probably get punch in.. Since when has "Mulatto" suddenly re-entered to vogue of sane civil conversation??I think it depends on where you're from. I learned the term from Haitian history, &, well, actually, "mulatto" is a lousy term to describe lighter-skinned Haitians, but that's where I learned it.

In any case, I would suggest that there is no such thing as a "Mulatto race" (and "mulatto" shouldn't even be capitalized). Pres. Obama is, if I understand the antebellum standards, ethnically & racially white, as his mother was white; and if the law still made a point of these things, he would probably be "white" or "mixed."

[davidm]

I think it depends on where you're from. I learned the term from Haitian history, &, well, actually, "mulatto" is a lousy term to describe lighter-skinned Haitians, but that's where I learned it.

In any case, I would suggest that there is no such thing as a "Mulatto race" (and "mulatto" shouldn't even be capitalized). Pres. Obama is, if I understand the antebellum standards, ethnically & racially white, as his mother was white; and if the law still made a point of these things, he would probably be "white" or "mixed."Of course there's no such thing. These folks are nuts.

[Accidental Martyr]

John Cain was born in Panama, under legal loopholes that had to be fixed via legislation so he would be a citizen. Obama was born inside the goddamn USA, so why weren't the birthers howling in rage about McCain?

Because McCain is white.

[Captain Amazing]

Blacks (assuming they met the other qualifications (property, religion, etc.)) could vote in Massachusetts and a few other (but not all) Northern states.

Not just northern states. Blacks could vote in North Carolina until the 1830s.

[Princhester]

I believe the judge's ruling will read something like this:

"What the fuck? Case dismissed."

Actually on the few occasions I have had cause to read judgments in this sort of case, they have been exceptionally closely researched and reasoned. Rather admirably, from what I have seen judges seem to feel that the very batshitness of the subject matter means they should treat it as soberly and carefully as they possibly can. Presumably this is so as to try to avoid any suggestion that they are part of the conspiracy, and to leave a clear cut public record for the future (for people who care to check) that the plaintiff's case is entirely bereft of factual or rational basis.

Of course, this is probably pointless since the overlap between "nutjob conspiracy theorists" and "people who care to check" is approximately zero.

[MEBuckner]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to imagine some guy who is refusing to pay income tax because Ohio isn't really a state and the court doesn't have any jurisdiction anyway because their flag has a fringe on it and they spelled his name in all caps reading the judge's carefully reasoned explanation of why the defendant is more full of it than the municipal wastewater treatment plant and saying "Oh, I see where I went wrong, then. My bad!"

[Duke]

It's been on the tip of everyone's tongue since 1991 and is said thousands of times a day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg&ob=av3e). Nobody to my knowledge has ever been punched in the face for it.

Well that guy who came up with that line got shot in the face.

[Little Nemo]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to imagine some guy who is refusing to pay income tax because Ohio isn't really a state and the court doesn't have any jurisdiction anyway because their flag has a fringe on it and they spelled his name in all caps reading the judge's carefully reasoned explanation of why the defendant is more full of it than the municipal wastewater treatment plant and saying "Oh, I see where I went wrong, then. My bad!"You'd be surprised. Some defendants will actually use their craziness as a legal strategy. What can happen is they make some insane claim like Ohio isn't a real state therefore the IRS is illegal and nobody has to pay taxes. And the judge looks at this petition (which is probably written in crayon or human blood) and issues a decision like "The court finds that the defendant is nuttier than a twenty pound Snickers bar. I'm throwing this one out of here."

What can then happen is the defendant can have a lucid spell (or a sane lawyer can take up the case on his behalf) and file an appeal. And that appeal will point out that the defendant raised the issue of Ohio not being a state - and the judge did not rule on that claim. And while that won't get taxes declared illegal, it probably will be sufficient grounds to have the judge's decision reversed with all kinds of further complications.

So judges will always try to treat whatever the defendant says, no matter how crazy it is, as if it is a valid legal point that needs to be properly addressed.

[Marley23]

John Cain was born in Panama, under legal loopholes that had to be fixed via legislation so he would be a citizen. Obama was born inside the goddamn USA, so why weren't the birthers howling in rage about McCain?
There are a couple of incorrect points here: one is that a very small number of people did take issue with McCain's citizenship in 2008, but it was not a significant number compares to the amount of people who went crazy over Obama's. Second is that there was no "loophole" that got closed. McCain was definitely a U.S. citizen. He was born to two U.S. citizens in a U.S. territory. And third is that the Senate did pass a resolution stating that he was a U.S. citizen, but the resolution was "non-binding" and I am sure it wouldn't have satisfied McCain Birthers anyway.

[The Great Sun Jester]

If nutjobs who file nuisance suits could/would be slapped with fines for contempt, maybe they'd fucking stop.
I don't think you could get that passed. Sometimes issues that are silly at first blush turn out to be legit, or at least result in official clarification--such as an amendment that says, "civil rights = political rights" should one in fact be necessary. Our legal culture is set up to not discourage complaints, and there is typically a civil mechanism in place to punish "frivilous & groundless" actions after the fact. As much as I share your contempt for cases that seem readily identifiable as belonging in the "Seriously, WTF?" category, I still kinda like a system that gives them a chance to clarify themselves before saying, "Yeah, thoguht so: stupid!" Give Teh Stoopids no room to say they were misunderstood, persecuted, discriminated against by The Illuminati, etc.



ETA: nice location, by the way.

[davidm]

I don't think you could get that passed. Sometimes issues that are silly at first blush turn out to be legit, or at least result in official clarification--such as an amendment that says, "civil rights = political rights" should one in fact be necessary. Our legal culture is set up to not discourage complaints, and there is typically a civil mechanism in place to punish "frivilous & groundless" actions after the fact. As much as I share your contempt for cases that seem readily identifiable as belonging in the "Seriously, WTF?" category, I still kinda like a system that gives them a chance to clarify themselves before saying, "Yeah, thoguht so: stupid!" Give Teh Stoopids no room to say they were misunderstood, persecuted, discriminated against by The Illuminati, etc.



ETA: nice location, by the way.Nutjobs who file nuisance suits do sometimes get slapped with fines. Orly Taitz, the queen of birthers, has been slapped with at least one fine of $20,000.00.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Our legal culture is set up to not discourage complaints, and there is typically a civil mechanism in place to punish "frivilous & groundless" actions after the fact. As much as I share your contempt for cases that seem readily identifiable as belonging in the "Seriously, WTF?" category, I still kinda like a system that gives them a chance to clarify themselves before saying, "Yeah, thoguht so: stupid!" Give Teh Stoopids no room to say they were misunderstood, persecuted, discriminated against by The Illuminati, etc.
She didn't say that courts should not carefully analyze the basis for the suits before slapping idiots with contempt fines.

[Northern Piper]

And the judge looks at this petition (which is probably written in crayon or human blood)

I once received an affidavit that was sealed with the affiant's thumbprint, in the affiant's blood. :eek:

[Northern Piper]

If nutjobs who file nuisance suits could/would be slapped with fines for contempt, maybe they'd fucking stop.In Canada, courts have the option of imposing court costs against a litigant who persists in frivolous complaints or arguments. It does seem to have some effect on the nutjobs.

[Alley Dweller]

There are a couple of incorrect points here: one is that a very small number of people did take issue with McCain's citizenship in 2008, but it was not a significant number compares to the amount of people who went crazy over Obama's. Second is that there was no "loophole" that got closed. McCain was definitely a U.S. citizen. He was born to two U.S. citizens in a U.S. territory. And third is that the Senate did pass a resolution stating that he was a U.S. citizen, but the resolution was "non-binding" and I am sure it wouldn't have satisfied McCain Birthers anyway. IN 1936, when McCain was born, the law was written such that no child born in the Panama Canal Zone could become a US Citizen, regardless of who his or her parents were. This was unintentional on the part of Congress, but it was real. Some have disputed that the law should have been read this way, but Congress took the concern seriously enough that in 1937 Congress passed this law (8USC1403) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1403) to correct the oversight and grant citizenship, retroactively, to eligible children born in Panama (not just the canal zone) since 1904. McCain gained citizenship as a result of this law.

You can read Professor Gabriel J Chin's paper on the subject as well as Stephen E Sachs's paper dismissing Chin's concerns here (http://www.michiganlawreview.org/assets/fi/107/mccain.pdf).

[Marley23]

That's interesting, and I didn't know about that. I thought grude was referring to a Senate resolution from 2008.

[Little Nemo]

I once received an affidavit that was sealed with the affiant's thumbprint, in the affiant's blood. :eek:I'm not a judge but I used to do hearings when I worked in a prison and similar principles apply.

Let's say a prisoner was written up for smoking in the bathroom. And at his hearing he says he wants to call Barack Obama as a witness.

Now if I responded by saying, "Stop being a wiseass and get serious" he could wait until the end of the hearing and then file an appeal. Why? Because he requested a witness and I didn't address his request.

So here's what I would actually say:
"You want Barack Obama, the President of the United States, as a witness at this hearing?
"Yes."
"Was President Obama present during this incident or have any direct knowledge about it?"
"Well, no."
"Is there some testimony that President Obama could offer as an expert on the subject of smoking in unauthorized areas?"
"Not really."
"Can you tell me then what testimony President Obama could make that would be relevant at this hearing?"
"He could testify about what it's like to be persecuted by your enemies."
"Any testimony he'd offer on that subject would be on how he was persecuted by his enemies. How would that be relevant to your case?"
"I have enemies just like he does."
"Are your enemies different from President Obama's enemies?"
"Yeah, my enemies are here in this prison."
"Does President Obama know your enemies?"
"Not personally."
"Well, I that case I do not see how President Obama would be able to offer any testimony that is relevant to this hearing. I am therefore denying you him as a witness. If you have enemies that you think caused you to be reported you will have to establish this based on your own testimony or the testimony of people who have direct knowledge of this."

Silly? Heck, yes. But you had to go through the proper steps.