Is Sam Adams beer really that special, relatively speaking?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

So, I see commercials for Sam Adams all the time and each one they're always going on about how every single thing about Sam Adams is what makes it better than the competition (a commercial saying their product is better than the others? Shocking, I know!).

The part that I want some clarification on is that the commercials even go onto say that the mug Sam Adams, hereafter referred to as SA, makes it taste better because of the shape of the mug. Really?

Why does no one else do this if mug shape is so damn special? Does mean a damn thing what-so-ever?

I think there are other dubious claims that the commercials make but I can't remember them right now, I tend to mute commercials afterall.

[Gangster Octopus]

Sam Adams makes several beers, but generally they are all good quality beers, if not necessarily to an individuals taste. As for the glasses, I actually have two and their claims are true but exaggerated, it doesn't make a beer that much better. But the features of the glass are not without logic. Surprisingly, I think the lip on the glass is the biggest improvement, the shape not so much, and the etching on the bottom does help with the carbonation but it is actually pretty minimal.

[silenus]

Actually, the shape of the glass can significantly enhance the sipping pleasure with any number of beers. Just as there are a wide variety of wine glasses, so are there a plethora of beer glasses. The reason Anheuser-Busch doesn't go into all that is that nothing would make their beers taste good.

[Boyo Jim]

I haven't tried any of their odd varieties, but no, I don't think it's particularly special. It does, though, have a fairly sharp distinctive taste.

It's better than Bud, the McDonalds of beer.

[Lamar Mundane]

It's special because it was one of the first microbrews to go national after the brewing laws were relaxed. As such, it was likely the first non American light lager that most people had tasted, and it helped to speed the growth of the microbrew industry.

Today, with all the competition it helped to bring on, it's nothing special.

[msmith537]

Why does no one else do this if mug shape is so damn special? Does mean a damn thing what-so-ever?
.

There is a Belgian bar I go to in NYC. Every single brand of beer has it's own uniquely shaped glass.



Actually, the shape of the glass can significantly enhance the sipping pleasure with any number of beers. Just as there are a wide variety of wine glasses, so are there a plethora of beer glasses. The reason Anheuser-Busch doesn't go into all that is that nothing would make their beers taste good.

Anheuser-Busch is best served in its traditional container - a 9 oz red plastic cup.

[Boyo Jim]

...
Anheuser-Busch is best served in its traditional container - a 9 oz red plastic cup.

You misspelled 12 ounce aluminum can.

[Tangent]

There is a Belgian bar I go to in NYC. Every single brand of beer has it's own uniquely shaped glass.

When I went on a European bus tour, our Belgian driver told us about this. He said most Belgians will not drink a beer unless it is in the proper glass. He said for his recent wedding he had received gifts of many different types of bottled Belgian beers, but that he would be unable to drink those for which he didn't own the proper glasses. At a bar in the Netherlands I ordered a Belgian beer. The bartender told me that all their glasses for that particular brand were in use at the moment, so I could wait until one was available, or I could order something else.

[appleciders]

As to the beer-- SA is fine. It's not to my taste, but lagers aren't my favorites and I won't hesitate to order it if there's nothing that I know is better or feel like trying. Some of their offerings beyond their flagship lager are good, too. But they're certainly not the best of the macro-scale micro-style brewers that are out there.

As to the glass-- yes, drinking from the correct glass can help. Different beers taste best from different shapes and materials of glass, because different shapes can affect how much of the smell of the beer you get as you drink and the materials can affect the rate at which the dissolved gases escape, and those reasons are just a start. I'm not fussy about it personally, but some people are and they're not entirely wrong to do so.

[guizot]

I think there are other dubious claims that the commercials make but I can't remember them right now . . . Why don't you just taste it yourself? I don't know how anyone with sentient taste buds could not taste the difference between Sam Adams and Budweiser. Whether they like it is another question. Some people just prefer beer with as little flavor as possible.

[Simplicio]

Its the the craft beer with the widest availability. There are a lot of restaurants and bars that have a bunch of beers from consolidated brewery companies (Bud, Miller, etc) and Sam Adams. So its "specialness" is probably due to the fact that if your looking for a craft beer, its your only option in a lot of places.

And its pretty good.

[thelurkinghorror]

Hey, you can't create an acronym* and then never use it again!

Their regular beer is decent but not always to my taste. Their seasonals run from pretty good to weird. Sometimes some of the flavors don't taste distinct from each other but still good. They do a decent mix though of styles.



*Or initialism, you pedants.

[cmyk]

For a flavorful lager that most bars and restaurants carry, that's my usual go-to beer if they don't have New Castle or Blue Moon. Not too light, not too heavy, and doesn't taste like watered down piss like Bud, Miller, or any other cheap American lager.

As for the glass, it feels a bit gimmicky. But I'll concede there's something to drinking beer out of a glass, and if it can release more of the carbonation and aroma, it should enhance the flavor a bit.

ETA: Basically what Simplicio said.

[Athena]

It's OK, but it's not THAT great. I'll drink it over a Budweiser, but only if it was one of the only other choices. There's a lot of microbrews that are way better, and some larger brews (like Sierra Nevada) that put Sam Adams to shame. Looking at Beer Advocate, none of the Sam Adams brews (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35) get especially great reviews. Good, but not great.

But the most annoying thing about Sam Adams is the stranglehold they appear to have on the Boston beer market. Last time we were in Boston, there was a huge lack of depth as far as local/regional beers on just about every restaurant menu we saw. It was weird - maybe I'm spoiled, but after living in Colorado and Michigan, I'm used to even small restaurants/bars having at least one or two truly "micro" microbrews. I didn't see that at all in Boston. Everything was Bud/Coors/etc. or Sam Adams.

[Huerta88]

Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada were the first two non-megabrews I ever had and there was a night and day difference. I don't think I'd ever tasted actual substantial hop flavor.

I'd certainly order either over any megabrew if (as suggested above) it were (as could happen) the only non-megabrew on a limited menu.

But if I were in Austin or Portland or Portland or Boulder or . . . just about anywhere that has a culture of good microbrews, Sam would be way down the list of good beers, behind a lot of even better beers.

It is obviously a good time to be a beer fan in America (elsewhere too although I am horrified everytime I go to London pubs and see the ubiquity of Bud and Bud Light).

Oh, and give Jim Koch of Sam some to a lot of credit -- his success no doubt inspired dozens of the follow-on microbrewers to believe you could actually make a living making good beer and going head to head with the megaswill.

[Huerta88]

So, I see commercials for Sam Adams all the time and each one they're always going on about how every single thing about Sam Adams is what makes it better than the competition (a commercial saying their product is better than the others? Shocking, I know!).
From the beginning Koch has been an aggressive and fairly shameless, and quite effective, heavy user of advertising and self-promotion, and has put himself front and center with his shtick of a simple guy who had a crazy dream of brewing really good beer in America. Which just makes him one in a long line of successful American capitalists. His product is good enough that his basic claim -- drink my beer rather than the beer that the great majority of Americans are still swilling -- is not especially disingenuous (I can't recall an ad in which he claimed to be selling the best beer in America or to be the ne plus ultra of microbrews). It's like Chipotle doesn't claim to be the best Mexican food in the world, but has succeeded by delivering better quality and taste than most fast food chains.

And as with Chipotle, Koch's successful quality/taste differentiation strategy has provided a model for many other entrepreneurs who have an idea for delivering better taste and quality, with reasonable accessibility and price point, to the masses.

If he got rich doing so -- I can't hate him for that.

ETA almost necessarily Sam, as one of the first big-time microbrews, was going to be something less than totally revolutionary. For the microbrew movement to take off, the beer style had to be familiar enough not to be totally offputting to the great majority of megabrew drinkers. The notion that the beer that drew people away from megabrews en masse would, in the first instance, be a lambic, a trippelbock, or a Trappist ale, just isn't realistic -- only a tiny segment of the population could readily and comfortably jump from Natural Light or Bud to those exotic (if delicious) styles.

[pulykamell]

Sam Adams is a solid beer. It's what got me into craft brews in the early 90s, so it will always hold a special place in my heart, but I also believe that it's seriously underrated by a lot of people. They have a lot of specialty beers that are first-class, like the Imperial Pilsner, the Black and Brew, Utopias, etc.

But most of their more mainstream offerings, like the Noble Pils (which I think along with Victory's Prima Pils is among the US's best showing in pilsener-style beers) and even their flagship Boston Lager (which is my favorite American lager) are well above-average for their styles. Now, they have their misses here and there (the Cranberry Lambic, for example, is execrable), but the misses are few and far in between.

Is it the best American brewery? No. Not even close. But saying it's just "better than bud" is selling it way, way, way short.

[Huerta88]

Is it the best American brewery? No. Not even close. But saying it's just "better than bud" is selling it way, way, way short.
It is, it is, but that is all that is necessary (if not sufficient) to characterize SA for the purposes that SA exists, which is to peel drinkers away from Bud et al. SA's continued growth prospects still lie squarely with being a gateway to better beer. The fact that it's better than it has to be to do so is just a happy coincidence, and SA's not going to increase market share by converting Fat Tire or Bluepoint or Celis drinkers, nor need it.

Another way of looking at it is that not every meal needs to be a six course molecular gastronomy tour de force, and likewise not every beer has to be a Gold Medalist at the craft beer festival year in and year out. I think of Sam or Sierra or Dale's as the equivalent to a really good grilled Vermont-cheddar-on-homemade-bread sandwich, alongside a Kraft single on Wonder bread sandwich. Simple but far preferable and sophisticated in taste, and not that much more expensive or challenging.

[Boyo Jim]

My personal favorite beer is New Glarus Spotted Cow*. I'm guessing it doesn't get a lot of play outside WI.

* voted "Best Ale" by the Janesville Kiwanis Fall Festival of Ale! (http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/awards)

[Martin Hyde]

Of the large craft breweries in the United States I rank Sam Adams as one of the top 5 for sure. I think Sierra Nevada has a better taste, and my favorite large-scale craft brewery is Saranac (brewed by Matt Brewing Company.)

The answer to whether Sam Adams is "special" or not is kind of hard to answer. As someone active in the beer drinking scene, some people (unfairly) tend to automatically assume only the smallest microbreweries and brewpubs can have truly good beers. Under that criteria, large craft brewers like Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, Matt Brewing Company, Magic Hat etc will not fare well, as all of them ship hundreds of thousands of barrels a year.

Another criteria people often use is basically how "unique" the beer being brewed is. To give you an idea of what you mean, at my local grocery store you can get beers from very small microbreweries with flavors like "Banana-Nut Bread", "Bavarian Chocolate Pie", "Cranberry Wheat" and etc. Some of these are interesting to taste because they sort of defy what you would normally expect from a beer. A lot of these beers will sell for like $8 for a small bottle, or sometimes $15 for a 4 pack of bottles.

Personally while I think those "unique" flavored beers are interesting and show real creativity, and can be fun to try, I really prefer a beer that tastes like a beer. A traditional dark lager, pale lager, pale ale or etc done very well typically is something I'll like more as my "regular beer" than I will some crazy-flavored beer that is trying to "shatter barriers" by infusing fermented beverages with strange flavors.

Under that criteria, I won't say that Sam Adams is the best in class for lagers or that Sierra Nevada is the best pale ale, or Saranac has the best IPA but for widely sold beers that you can order in many restaurants I think they are as good as it gets. There's better stuff out there, but none of it that I'm aware of that you can reliably buy at any restaurant or bar when you're traveling. There are locally brewed beers I will prefer, both near where I live and beers local to other areas, but for widely distributed beers I think it's hard to beat the aforementioned craft breweries.

I also should give a nod to America's largest brewery (although not a craft brewery): Yuengling, their product is essentially what I think Bud Light or Miller Lite would taste like if they were good beers. So it's not exactly a connoisseurs beer, but it's a traditional cookout type beer in the same vein as the stuff A-B or Miller makes but significantly better.

[Huerta88]

I'm guessing it doesn't get a lot of play outside WI.

* voted "Best Ale" by the Janesville Kiwanis Fall Festival of Ale! (http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/awards)

And that's pretty cool in a way, right? It's not realistic for every cool local creation to get nationally saturated distribution (that's how we lost the variety in the first place, the trend toward nationally-ubiquitous brews in the early 20th century). I think we've clawed our way back to right where we were ca. 1920 -- something like 1,500+ distinct commercial, often very regional, brews, way back up from say the '70s (what, maybe 20?).

Plus, gives me something to look forward to next time I'm in Wisconsin (or New Hampshire, or Michigan, or . . . .).

[silenus]

Exactly. One of the joys of traveling is looking for good local brews. And Martin is right - Sierra Nevada isn't the best pale ale out there. It's #2, right behind Stone Pale Ale (http://www.stonebrew.com/pale/)! :D

[bouv]

But most of their more mainstream offerings, like the Noble Pils (which I think along with Victory's Prima Pils is among the US's best showing in pilsener-style beers) and even their flagship Boston Lager (which is my favorite American lager) are well above-average for their styles. Now, they have their misses here and there (the Cranberry Lambic, for example, is execrable), but the misses are few and far in between.

Are you me? I feel the exact same way about both Noble Pils AND the Cranberry Lambic (I once said it was like someone drank Sam Adams light, ate a bunch of cranberry sauce, then vomited that back into a bottle.)

But do they even still brew Noble Pils? This year, the spring ale is Alpine Spring, a lager...

[Exapno Mapcase]

I like Sam Adams myself. It has a flavor that I find to be good. I don't even try to know more about beer than that.

But all these comments about microbreweries and specialness... I'm sure that the Sam Adams people take care with their beers. But for many years it has been brewed here in Rochester by the Genesee Brewing Company (http://www.brewhopping.com/spot_brewery_Genesee_Brewing_Company_Rochester_NY_114319.aspx), maker of swill beers that the vast majority of restaurants that proudly offer Sam Adams would never deign to serve.

It's not the brewery: it's the formula.

[Athena]

My personal favorite beer is New Glarus Spotted Cow*. I'm guessing it doesn't get a lot of play outside WI.

* voted "Best Ale" by the Janesville Kiwanis Fall Festival of Ale! (http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/awards)

New Glarus is a little patch of wonderful. It doesn't get ANY play outside of Wisconsin because they refuse to expand beyond the state. We stock up everytime we take a trip down south.

[pulykamell]

New Glarus is a little patch of wonderful. It doesn't get ANY play outside of Wisconsin because they refuse to expand beyond the state. We stock up everytime we take a trip down south.

New Glarus makes some wonderful beers. In fact, I'll be making a pit stop in town there next weekend. I think Spotted Cow is, well, let's just say I don't find Spotted Cow anything special, although I will pick up a six-pack when I'm in the area, just because you can't find it here regularly. (It's not officially distributed in Illinois, but if you know where to look, you can sometimes find New Glarus beers in Chicago, but the places that do sell it are being a little naughty.) Anyhow, New Glarus makes some of the most incredible fruit beers I have ever tasted. Now, I'm not generally one for fruit in my beer, but their Raspberry Tart, Wisconsin Belgian Red, and Apple Ale are out of this world. They just have such a great nose of fresh fruit, without being cloyingly sweet or artificial tasting. New Glarus is the whole reason I've reconsidered fruit beers.

[pulykamell]

But do they even still brew Noble Pils? This year, the spring ale is Alpine Spring, a lager...

Yep, they begin brewing it year round starting next month. Cite (http://www.samueladams.com/enjoy-our-beer/beer-detail.aspx?id=c0321623-376d-4c12-9c8f-a4b0cecdff80). I have not noticed any difficulty in finding it.

Their new IPA is also quite tasty--Whitewater IPA or whatever it's called. I wasn't so hot on Longitude 48, but Whitewater hits all the right notes for me.

[tomcar]

Here's another big thumbs up for their Boston Lager.

[Motorgirl]

But the most annoying thing about Sam Adams is the stranglehold they appear to have on the Boston beer market. Last time we were in Boston, there was a huge lack of depth as far as local/regional beers on just about every restaurant menu we saw. It was weird - maybe I'm spoiled, but after living in Colorado and Michigan, I'm used to even small restaurants/bars having at least one or two truly "micro" microbrews. I didn't see that at all in Boston. Everything was Bud/Coors/etc. or Sam Adams.

I am sad you had a disappointing beer experience in Boston. Next time you come, let me know. I can hook you up with a couple dozen good restaurants with great, carefully chosen local New England beer lists.

[madsircool]

Lots of responses in this thread remind me of music threads discussing great songs/artists. Its like people put down Stairway to Heaven or the Beatles and say obscure song/artist X and Y are better. Sam Adams is an excellent consistent good beer. If Sierra Nevada or smaller brews were as good or better wouldnt their sales reflect it?

[runner pat]

Lots of responses in this thread remind me of music threads discussing great songs/artists. Its like people put down Stairway to Heaven or the Beatles and say obscure song/artist X and Y are better. Sam Adams is an excellent consistent good beer. If Sierra Nevada or smaller brews were as good or better wouldnt their sales reflect it?

Same way Bud or Coors are good beers because their sales are great? :D

Some breweries don't want the hassle of trying to ship across the country or dealing with multiple breweries and maintaining quality.

[Snarky_Kong]

Lots of responses in this thread remind me of music threads discussing great songs/artists. Its like people put down Stairway to Heaven or the Beatles and say obscure song/artist X and Y are better. Sam Adams is an excellent consistent good beer. If Sierra Nevada or smaller brews were as good or better wouldnt their sales reflect it?

Does McDonald's make the world's best hamburgers?

[Gray Ghost]

...But the most annoying thing about Sam Adams is the stranglehold they appear to have on the Boston beer market. Last time we were in Boston, there was a huge lack of depth as far as local/regional beers on just about every restaurant menu we saw. It was weird - maybe I'm spoiled, but after living in Colorado and Michigan, I'm used to even small restaurants/bars having at least one or two truly "micro" microbrews. I didn't see that at all in Boston. Everything was Bud/Coors/etc. or Sam Adams.

No Harpoon? (Which is a tasty group of beers also brewed in Boston.)

I agree with you on the stranglehold on Bostonian's psyches. My soon-to-be-BiL and his GF came out to TX to visit his parents. They brought along a case of Sam Adams. (like we couldn't get it here?) And they brought it to the BYOB Thai place they dragged us to. Don't get me wrong, I like Sam Adams, but dude, branch out a little? When I visited Maine, I wasn't bitching they didn't have Saint Arnolds; rather, I was reveling in the opportunity to visit Allagash, Geary, and try Cadillac Mt. Stout.

That said, I recommend trying Utopias, if you can. It's the closest thing to Madeira I've had in beer. Much better than the execrable Triple Bock. Not that I'd pay the ridiculous price they want for one.

[Joey P]

My personal favorite beer is New Glarus Spotted Cow*. I'm guessing it doesn't get a lot of play outside WI.

* voted "Best Ale" by the Janesville Kiwanis Fall Festival of Ale! (http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/awards)

Funny you should mention that. Someone upthread mentioned New Castle and I was going to say that Fat Squirrel was far and away my very favorite brown ale. I have a 6 (well 5) pack of it sitting about 10 feet away from me. In fact. If you ever want to make really good beef stew, use a bottle of Fat Squirrel. (Though people look at you funny when you call it Squirrel Stew, but I suspect that's mostly because they start to wonder if you may have actually used squirrel meat).

[elfkin477]

I don't like beer. But the Sam Adams beer I was offered was definitely the least disgusting beer I've tried. I know that hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement, but I really hate how beer tastes so this is actually high praise from me.

[silenus]

Lots of responses in this thread remind me of music threads discussing great songs/artists. Its like people put down Stairway to Heaven or the Beatles and say obscure song/artist X and Y are better. Sam Adams is an excellent consistent good beer. If Sierra Nevada or smaller brews were as good or better wouldnt their sales reflect it?

"Sometimes the majority just means all the fools are on the same side." - Will Rogers

[pulykamell]

That said, I recommend trying Utopias, if you can. It's the closest thing to Madeira I've had in beer.

My cousin got me a bottle for my birthday two years ago. It was quite an experience. I'm not exactly sure if I'd pay that kind of price myself for it, but I've never had anything else like it. Pretty awesome stuff.

That said, I discovered the bottle doesn't keep for too long at room temperature conditions once opened. I assumed it would keep like a normal liqueur, but it starts to turn eventually. Luckily, we had gotten through most of the bottle, but, after a year or year and a half, the last 3 oz or so were completely soured. It's like the maple syrup in it had started to go bad or something. Odd.

[NDP]

I like Sam Adams myself. It has a flavor that I find to be good. I don't even try to know more about beer than that.

But all these comments about microbreweries and specialness... I'm sure that the Sam Adams people take care with their beers. But for many years it has been brewed here in Rochester by the Genesee Brewing Company (http://www.brewhopping.com/spot_brewery_Genesee_Brewing_Company_Rochester_NY_114319.aspx), maker of swill beers that the vast majority of restaurants that proudly offer Sam Adams would never deign to serve.

It's not the brewery: it's the formula.

Is Genesee that bad? They don't distribute it out in the Pacific Northwest so I've never tried it. How does its product compare with the macrobrews like Bud, Miller, and Coors?

Sam Adams was special 20 years ago when, except for a few imports and regionals, you really didn't have any alternatives to what was put out by the Big Brewers. Now, there are hundreds of micro and craft beers available in many different varieties so it's no longer stands out. That being said, I do like a few of their beers. My favorite is the Double Bock (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35/47785) which just hit the stores again a few weeks ago.

[drastic_quench]

Great, informed responses

I'll add that, last I checked, Sam Adams is the craft brewer with the most sales in the U.S., but supposedly that's still less than 1% of all beer sold in America. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Ogre]

Thank god for Sam Adams. Their market penetration is such that, no matter what podunk piece of BFE I happen to be visiting, chances are I'll be able to find a drinkable beer.

Also, they're decent people. When there was a massive shortage of hops a couple of years ago, Sam Adams was one of the first breweries to be shipped hops, meaning that a lot of small operations were going to be stuck out in the cold. SA famped back their own production and sold hops at cost to anyone who needed them.

[lindsaybluth]

It's special because it was one of the first microbrews to go national after the brewing laws were relaxed. As such, it was likely the first non American light lager that most people had tasted, and it helped to speed the growth of the microbrew industry.

This, exactly.

If you're in a bar or restaurant that doesn't have "craft" or true small-brewery beer, chances are good someone in your party will ask "Do you have Sam Adams, if so which ones?"

[shiftless]

If you're in a bar or restaurant that doesn't have "craft" or true small-brewery beer, chances are good someone in your party will ask "Do you have Sam Adams, if so which ones?"

Some of those places don't seem to understand the "which one" question. I've been places where they say, "we have Bud, Miller and Sam Adams" (a step in the right direction) which means SA lager and they don't know there are other kinds.

Anyway, if I'm in a restaurant and they only serve Bud and Miller, I won't have a beer with dinner. If they have Sam Adams lager I might. If thay have a more interesting Sam Adams I probably will.

The glassware a beer is served in is very important IF the beer is the least bit interesting. If you are drinking out of an old shoe, Budwiser is perfectly fine.

[runner pat]

The glassware a beer is served in is very important IF the beer is the least bit interesting. If you are drinking out of an old shoe, Budwiser is perfectly fine.

Proof that choosing the proper drinking vessel will improve the taste.

[Saint Cad]

It's good but not great. If I'm in an area with a lot of microbreweries around I'll go with something else but if I'm in a spot with all mass-marketed beers, I have a Sam Adams. Their Tripple Bock was pretty good though.

[Great Antibob]

anyone with sentient taste buds

Your taste buds are sentient? Dude. ;)

Just came in to say Sam Adam is ok, not particularly special, but just about every style is drinkable, which is not true for every craft brewer.

I'm really digging the Alpine Spring, which has enough of a malt thing going that I wouldn't have pegged it as a Lager at first taste. It's also (as expected) better draught than bottled, but I imagine it can be difficult to find on tap.

[Athena]

I am sad you had a disappointing beer experience in Boston. Next time you come, let me know. I can hook you up with a couple dozen good restaurants with great, carefully chosen local New England beer lists.

Great! Though still, I gotta say, Boston was weird. There were plenty of places we went that in any other town I've visited would have had at least a handful of local microbrews. Not Boston. As you imply, it seems you have to seek out the right places.

No Harpoon? (Which is a tasty group of beers also brewed in Boston.)

I think we did see Harpoon in one or two places, and if I recall, it was good.

[Airk]

Great! Though still, I gotta say, Boston was weird. There were plenty of places we went that in any other town I've visited would have had at least a handful of local microbrews. Not Boston. As you imply, it seems you have to seek out the right places.

We go in for extremes around here. :P You get places competing to see how many different microbrews they can smoosh onto the menu. You get places that make their beer on site. And then you get places that look at you funny for thinking there's beer other than Bud and Sam Adams. (Though I've gotta say, it's a rare spot that won't at least have the latter.)

Odds are though, that you just didn't end up in places that "would have had" good beer elsewhere. It can be hard to judge hereabouts. I'm sure Motorgirl will steer you to some good ones though. :)

[pulykamell]

We go in for extremes around here. :P You get places competing to see how many different microbrews they can smoosh onto the menu. You get places that make their beer on site. And then you get places that look at you funny for thinking there's beer other than Bud and Sam Adams. (Though I've gotta say, it's a rare spot that won't at least have the latter.)


Chicago is similar. In my part of town, I have to think about where I might be able to find a Goose Island (the largest local craft brewer). I honestly don't think there's a pub within two miles of me that serves it (but I stress that I live in an ethnic and blue collar part of town. You'll have an easy time finding Zywiec, Okocim, Pacifico, Bohemia, Modelo, etc., here.) Even the Loop (downtown business district) can be patchy. Once you enter the popular 20-something and 30-something neighborhoods, yeah, it's impossible not to find local craft brews on the menu, in which case Goose Island might even be passed up in favor of Half Acre, Revolution, Two Brothers, etc., and other, smaller, craft brews. But there's still an incredible amount of places that have nothing much fancier than a Sam Adams, if that, available.

[Omniscient]

Its the the craft beer with the widest availability. There are a lot of restaurants and bars that have a bunch of beers from consolidated brewery companies (Bud, Miller, etc) and Sam Adams. So its "specialness" is probably due to the fact that if your looking for a craft beer, its your only option in a lot of places.

And its pretty good.

Sam Adams for all intents and purposes is a Miller Product. It's distributed by Miller's distribution network in every major market and it's contract brewed by Miller across the country. Sam Adams is a macrobrew, period. That doesn't make them bad, but they in no way are a beachhead in a sea of macrobrews. Sam Adams is Miller's faux-microbrew product and they collaborate to market and sell it. Blue Moon is Coor's (now owned by Miller) faux-microbrew and it too was distributed by Miller in the east and Coors in the west (now merged into one). When you see Blue Moon on tap, you're simply seeing more Miller.

Budwesier is heavily investing in Goose Island as well as a few other large regional microbrews in an attempt to gain parity with Miller on this front since it's Michelob/Shock Top/Bare Knuckle bands haven't taken hold. It's unclear if Budweiser intends to take one regional microbrew national or if it intends to compete locally with Sam Adams and Blue Moon with a bunch of more independent local partners. In Chicago the latter is apparently effective as Goose Island's main lines (Honkers and 312) is gaining steam over the Miller offerings, whether they'll take 312 and Honkers to the Coasts is yet to be determined or if they'll continue to leverage relationships with brands like Widmer/Redhook in the west in various regions.

[madmonk28]

A nice beer served in the proper glass is a real joy. Lots of styles of beer have their own type of glass. Having said that, Sam Adams is an okay beer that I can order if there is nothing else more interesting on the menu.

[Vinyl Turnip]

For some reason, I've never liked the flavor of Sam Adams Boston Lager. I retry it occasionally to see if I've changed my mind, but it's always "meh."

I like a bold-flavored beer, and some of their other brews range acceptable to pretty good, but the flagship beer just tastes unpleasant to me.

[thelurkinghorror]

No way. Blue Moon and Shock Top are "independent" breweries, but wholly owned by Coors and Anheuser-Busch. They try to to hide fact on their labels. Samuel Adams/Boston Brewing is an independent company (own stock symbol etc.) and not on the same level of those, whether is distributed and is maybe produced by Miller or not.

[Kolga]

Sam Adams is fine, but I hardly consider it given the plethora of fabulous craft beers available out here. The only time I really think about having it is when we got to the Great American Beer Festival - I'll stop by and see what the latest seasonal is, and then move on to some of the other 1800 breweries there.

I can't remember the last time I had a Sam Adams, actually. The tiny liquor store near our house has a better range of craft brews than you can shake a stick at, and if I go out, it's almost always to a brewpub with a huge range of choices.

[Fly_Sparge]

I would vote that Sam Adams beer is special.

In the BJCP Guidelines (http://www.bjcp.org/stylecenter.php) they have several categories where their brews are listed as commercial examples:

3B - Oktoberfest/Marzen - Sam Adams Oktoberfest
4C - Schwarzbier - Sam Adams Black Lager
5C - Doppelbock - Sam Adams Double Bock
11C - Northern English Brown Ale - Sam Adams Brown Ale
13B - Sweet Stout - Sam Adams Cream Stout
21B - Winter Specialty Spiced Beer - Sam Adams Winter Lager
23 - Specialy Beer - Sam Adams Triple Bock

The commercial examples listed in these guidelines are considered to be the most accurate beer according to style: the first listing is the most accurate, the second listing is the second-most accurate, etc.

[pulykamell]

Another perspective: At the beer nerd websites like Ratebeer.com and Beeradvocate.com, the flagship Boston lager even scores quite well. Frankly, I'm a little surprised, but at ratebeer.com, the Boston Lager scores in the 97th percentile for its style, and on Beer Advocate, it's #2 in its style "Vienna Lager," behind Great Lakes' Eliot Ness, and 87th-90th percentile overall.

I don't care who brews it, but Sam Adams makes solid beers.

[Fly_Sparge]

No way. Blue Moon and Shock Top are "independent" breweries, but wholly owned by Coors and Anheuser-Busch. They try to to hide fact on their labels. Samuel Adams/Boston Brewing is an independent company (own stock symbol etc.) and not on the same level of those, whether is distributed and is maybe produced by Miller or not.

Maybe this (http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/samuel-adams-biggest-american-brewer/) will help.

Their brewing process is contracted out to Miller/Coors, but Miller/Coors does not own the product or any portion of Boston Brewing Co. (that I am available to find out about anyways).

I believe that Blue Moon and Shock Top have a similar relationship with Miller/Coors. I'd need to do a bit of homework to make sure I'm not lying to you, though.

[Omniscient]

Chicago is similar. In my part of town, I have to think about where I might be able to find a Goose Island (the largest local craft brewer). I honestly don't think there's a pub within two miles of me that serves it (but I stress that I live in an ethnic and blue collar part of town. You'll have an easy time finding Zywiec, Okocim, Pacifico, Bohemia, Modelo, etc., here.) Even the Loop (downtown business district) can be patchy. Once you enter the popular 20-something and 30-something neighborhoods, yeah, it's impossible not to find local craft brews on the menu, in which case Goose Island might even be passed up in favor of Half Acre, Revolution, Two Brothers, etc., and other, smaller, craft brews. But there's still an incredible amount of places that have nothing much fancier than a Sam Adams, if that, available.

Not sure what neighborhood you're in but in Chicago racism and politics plays a big role in what beers are available. One of Budweiser's distribution partners was owned by one of Jessie Jackson's sons for the better part of a decade. As a result there were large chunks of the City, even those outside of their territory, refused to buy any product distributed by his company. In most cases this was pure above board racism. Even now that the company is sold (IIRC) the association remains and drinking trends are now well established.

For this reason in many of the blue collar areas of the city Budweiser and Goose Island are nigh on impossible to find.

[Gangster Octopus]

Maybe this (http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/samuel-adams-biggest-american-brewer/) will help.

Their brewing process is contracted out to Miller/Coors, but Miller/Coors does not own the product or any portion of Boston Brewing Co. (that I am available to find out about anyways).

I believe that Blue Moon and Shock Top have a similar relationship with Miller/Coors. I'd need to do a bit of homework to make sure I'm not lying to you, though.

Nope, Blue Moon and Shock Top are wholly owned subsidiaries of MillerCoors and Anheiser- Busch. Sam Adams is completely independently owned. It is NOT a macrobrew. As far as distribution, distribution is legally separated from Production and retail But there are gray areas, but just because MIller Distibution distributes Samuel Adams does not mean anything about Sam Adams being a product of Miller

[phreesh]

Haven't plowed through all the posts, but I think that SA is special.

It's one of the few large breweries that produces a distinctive, bold tasting beer. Given the choice, I'll go with a local microbrew every time, but at a bar that doesn't have a large selection, SA is commonly available and MUCH better than the Bud, Coors, Miller products.

[Omniscient]

No way. Blue Moon and Shock Top are "independent" breweries, but wholly owned by Coors and Anheuser-Busch. They try to to hide fact on their labels. Samuel Adams/Boston Brewing is an independent company (own stock symbol etc.) and not on the same level of those, whether is distributed and is maybe produced by Miller or not.

You have an extremely unusual definition of "independent". As you note they are publicly held, the antithesis of "independent". SABMiller is a major shareholder of Sam Adams. The Kochs still head up the company but they are accountable to shareholders just like every other CEO of a public company. They were no more "independent" than Budweiser was prior to the inBev takeover. Miller has thus far been hands off and they don't own a majority share, but do not for a minute underestimate the importance of their marketing and distribution partnerships. Distribution and marketing are far more important in this industry than brewing or product management. When you walk into a bar and see 8 tap handles, those are allocated in most high volume venues purely based off marketing contracts with the distributors. Sam Adams went public at the same time that Miller acquired the contract to distribute and brew the beer which was no accident.

Sam Adams is different in that they didn't start out as a child company like Blue Moon and Shock Top, but at this point the distinction is trivial.

Maybe this (http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/samuel-adams-biggest-american-brewer/) will help.

Their brewing process is contracted out to Miller/Coors, but Miller/Coors does not own the product or any portion of Boston Brewing Co. (that I am available to find out about anyways).

Publicly held company. SABMiller owns a huge chunk of it. So do I for that matter via my 401k, but unfortunately I don't have a big enough chunk to influence decisions. Koch nominally makes all the decisions but business decisions are colored greatly by their partners. When Miller wants to push a seasonal line nation wide, Miller brews it and sells it and markets it. Sam dictates the recipe and the creative, but they are advised by the same agencies that work for Miller.

I believe that Blue Moon and Shock Top have a similar relationship with Miller/Coors. I'd need to do a bit of homework to make sure I'm not lying to you, though.

No, Shock Top has always been a AB brand. It was founded by AB specifically to combat Blue Moon. It's brewed in it's own breweries, but they are owned wholly by AB. Blue Moon was also founded entirely by Coors. Both Blue Moon and Shock Top were incorporated in Colorado to attach themselves to the burgeoning craft brewing fad and sway voters at the GABF.

[Omniscient]

Nope, Blue Moon and Shock Top are wholly owned subsidiaries of MillerCoors and Anheiser- Busch. Sam Adams is completely independently owned. It is NOT a macrobrew. As far as distribution, distribution is legally separated from Production and retail But there are gray areas, but just because MIller Distibution distributes Samuel Adams does not mean anything about Sam Adams being a product of Miller

Quite simply you are wrong. I worked in the industry for 3 years. You can call it a macro or not, doesn't matter, the term is meaningless. Distribution however means everything. It's legally separated but calling it a "grey area" is more accurately a gun metal grey or ebony area. These are Miller employees in everything but name selling Sam Adams and they leverage the products together. Sam Adams gets tap handles in major public venues and chains based on pricing agreements struck across the Miller portfolio often greased with Miller advertising and marketing collateral. When a bar runs a $4 Sam Adams pint special, it's printed by a Miller employee on Miller paper and usually has a Miller logo on it somewhere. Many distributors won't provide discounting on Sam Adams products unless you agree to carry Miller on tap and run weekly exclusive specials.

[pulykamell]

Not sure what neighborhood you're in but in Chicago racism and politics plays a big role in what beers are available. One of Budweiser's distribution partners was owned by one of Jessie Jackson's sons for the better part of a decade. As a result there were large chunks of the City, even those outside of their territory, refused to buy any product distributed by his company. In most cases this was pure above board racism. Even now that the company is sold (IIRC) the association remains and drinking trends are now well established.

For this reason in many of the blue collar areas of the city Budweiser and Goose Island are nigh on impossible to find.

I've never noticed a problem finding Budweiser, but what you write doesn't surprise me.

[Omniscient]

I've never noticed a problem finding Budweiser, but what you write doesn't surprise me.

The issue with Bud is most obvious on the West and Northwest side, a combination of Eastern Europeans and old school, blue collar white Chicagoans who haven't been pushed to the burbs yet. In Mexican neighborhoods Bud is very popular, so it can be a block-by-block thing. Edison Park and Bridgeport also tended to be very anti-Bud because of the heavy Police and Fire Department associations.

[pulykamell]

The issue with Bud is most obvious on the West and Northwest side, a combination of Eastern Europeans and old school, blue collar white Chicagoans who haven't been pushed to the burbs yet. In Mexican neighborhoods Bud is very popular, so it can be a block-by-block thing. Edison Park and Bridgeport also tended to be very anti-Bud because of the heavy Police and Fire Department associations.

Yeah, my neighborhood (near Midway) is now majority Mexican, but it was a strong Polish neighborhood (and still is, to some extent). Still, when I say I had issues finding Goose Island, this was before any connection with A-B.

[nitroglycerine]

[QUOTE=NDP;14814379]Is Genesee that bad? They don't distribute it out in the Pacific Northwest so I've never tried it. How does its product compare with the macrobrews like Bud, Miller, and Coors?

Genesee's flagship is pretty bad, but the Cream Ale, 12 Horse Ale and the seasonal Bock beer are a little better than the Megabrews. They are also the makers of Dundee IIRC. I just finished off a variety pack of Dundee, and I liked them all except the Nut Brown Ale. Wasn't crazy about the IPA either, but I'm not a fan of IPA's.

SA Beers are good, but most are a little thin for my taste. I like Yuengling much beter. IMO nothing can compare with Yuengling Porter. and they're sneaking up on SA too... besides Lager, Black & Tan and Lord Chesterfield Ale, they have a decent Bock beer in the spring, and they recently came out with an Oktoberfest beer.

I sure do like the Sam Adams Cream Stout tho!

[bump]

I think we did see Harpoon in one or two places, and if I recall, it was good.

Last time I was in Boston in 2009, I had a couple of pints of Harpoon there too- the IPA, if I recall. Good stuff.

I'll say this- the SA Boston Lager seemed fresher in Boston than down here in Texas, which is a good thing. Not super-fresh lagers tend to get a sharper bitterness than the fresh ones (or maybe the maltiness fades?) and aren't as balanced as the freshest versions of the style. Pilsner Urquell or Staropramen in Prague is a different beer than in the US- it's freshness, I'm sure.

And the SA Alpine Spring is good stuff; I can't quite place it in a category; it's reminiscent of a Belgian wit brewed without spices and with lager yeast.

[Omniscient]

Yeah, my neighborhood (near Midway) is now majority Mexican, but it was a strong Polish neighborhood (and still is, to some extent). Still, when I say I had issues finding Goose Island, this was before any connection with A-B.

There's an unexpected affinity for Eastern European beers amongst the Mexican population here. I'm not sure if it's the proximity of the neighborhoods and overlap in bars clientele or what, but Mexicans drink a lot of Czech style pilsners. Heineken and Grolsch are big as are true Polish and Czech beers like Tyskie, Zywiec, Czechvar and Pilsner Urquell.

[pulykamell]

That would make sense, also given the stylistic overlap between Mexican beers and those types of pilsners. That said, I personally haven't observed Mexicans drinking a lot of Polish/Czech/German/Dutch beer. Around here, the Polish beer is pretty much exclusively bought up by Polish clientele. Perhaps everyone else is intimidated by the pronunciations. :) And the Mexican clientele seems to go for the usual Mexican brands or American macrobrews.

[Vinyl Turnip]

That would make sense, also given the stylistic overlap between Mexican beers and those types of pilsners.

And the similarity between banda/Norteña music and polkas... coincidence?

[amanset]

Anheuser-Busch is best served in its traditional container - a 9 oz red plastic cup.

Actually, this is something I have noticed a lot in IS media but have never understood. Could someone explain to this ignorant European exactly what it is with red plastic cups? Why do they have to be red?

[madmonk28]

The red plastic cups are the kind you can buy like a 100 of them for very little money. I don't know why they are usually red, but blue is also common. If you are drinking Bud, you are either 18 and at your first party, at a crappy picnic, or at some sporting event where they don't have proper beer. Regardless, you are drinking really cheap beer out of really cheap containers, most of which happen to be red.

[pulykamell]

And the similarity between banda/Norteña music and polkas... coincidence?

Yeah, it's kind of interesting to note just how much of German/Czech/Polish culture has found its way into Mexican culture, all because of the migration patterns of the 19th century. I've always found it amusing that when I was a kid, this neighborhood was majority Polish, and you'd hear polka music blasting out of garages all Saturday morning and afternoon. Many years later, I'm back in the same neighborhood, and you still hear polka blasting, but now it's all in Spanish.

[pulykamell]

Actually, this is something I have noticed a lot in IS media but have never understood. Could someone explain to this ignorant European exactly what it is with red plastic cups? Why do they have to be red?

Solo Cup Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo_Cup_Company) makes the best known of these plastic cups. In my experience, clear plastic cups are as, if not more, popular as disposable cups at parties. If you go to a party in the US that features disposable cups, you're most likely going to run into either clear or red plastic cups. Why red? No clue. They just seem to be the most ubiquitous and popular. (Whether they're red because that's was originally the best-selling color, or if they were originally red or most widely available in red, so that became the most popular color, I don't know.) Solo does make them in other colors. As stated above, blue is regularly available, and there's also green and yellow (at least), but neither of those colors approach the ubiquity of red.

[amanset]

Cheers for the red cup answers, guys.

[thelurkinghorror]

And the similarity between banda/Norteña music and polkas... coincidence?

I believe Bohemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuauht%C3%A9moc_Moctezuma_Brewery#Bohemia) is a city in Monterrey.

[Colibri]

He said most Belgians will not drink a beer unless it is in the proper glass.

The Belgians I know would drink beer out of an old boot.:)

[pulykamell]

I believe Bohemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuauht%C3%A9moc_Moctezuma_Brewery#Bohemia) is a city in Monterrey.

Nm

[Acid Lamp]

My personal favorite beer is New Glarus Spotted Cow*. I'm guessing it doesn't get a lot of play outside WI.

* voted "Best Ale" by the Janesville Kiwanis Fall Festival of Ale! (http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/beers/awards)

I'll happily send you a care package of whatever you'd like from the sunshine state in return for Belgian Red, and other NG offerings. Just sayin.....We got Cigar City, Terrapin, The Funky Buddha....

[Omniscient]

Cheers for the red cup answers, guys.

Necessary YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZqGJONH68&ob=av3e)link. Um...enjoy.

[BomTek]

This is one of the more interesting threads I've happened upon recently, so thanks for all the discussion. I'll say that I like Sam Adams as well, particularly since no matter what variety it is, I can be pretty sure that it'll be tasty, and guaranteed that at least it'll be more interesting than Coors or Miller or whatever. Of course, most places just have the Boston Lager, but even that just beats the pants off the tasteless yellow shit.
I wanted to contribute this link (http://www.motortrend.com/features/travel/1203_the_great_midwestern_beer_run_in_a_cadillac_cts_v_wagon/viewall.html), a story that ran in Motor Trend a month or two ago, that I thought the beer snobs (and the wannabe beer snobs) that have contributed here might enjoy. Basically a couple guys take a Cadillac CTS-V Sport Wagon, by all accounts one of the finest vehicles in the world, from California to the Midwest to sample a bunch of microbrews. Sounds like a dream "assignment," really, and I share the author's amazement that the bosses signed off on it.
Anyway, they talk a lot more about beer in the article than they do about the car, which is awesome because the car's basically a known quantity in comparison to these low-volume craft brews, but any Midwestern Dopers who have either tried any of the beers he mentions or could be persuaded to seek some out might find it an interesting read.
Oh, and an enticing quote: "... people who know beer know that the United States now brews the best beer in the world, end of story." Discuss. :D

[pulykamell]

Heh. I've been to all of those except for Dave's Brew Farm. All the breweries mentioned are excellent. (Breweries mentioned are: Founders, Bell's, Three Floyd's, Revolution, New Glarus, and Dave's Brew Farm.)

[Great Antibob]

Oh, and an enticing quote: "... people who know beer know that the United States now brews the best beer in the world, end of story." Discuss. :D

There's not much to discuss. It's widely accepted that many of the best beers in the world are brewed in the US. And it's certainly hard to find such a wide variety of different styles brewed at such consistently high quality anywhere else in the world.

[pulykamell]

Oh, and an enticing quote: "... people who know beer know that the United States now brews the best beer in the world, end of story." Discuss. :D

I take it you missed this brouhaha (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641538).

[Gangster Octopus]

There's not much to discuss. It's widely accepted that many of the best beers in the world are brewed in the US. And it's certainly hard to find such a wide variety of different styles brewed at such consistently high quality anywhere else in the world.

Not everyone is convinced. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641538&page=2)

[Great Antibob]

Not everyone is convinced. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641538&page=2)

Meh.

I don't claim it's necessarily the best, just that there's no doubt America is at least near the top.

And at least there's no reason for people to automatically dismiss American beers as inferior, which still seems to happen for some reason (as occurred in that thread, as I recall).

[amanset]

Necessary YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZqGJONH68&ob=av3e)link. Um...enjoy.

I feel I should be angry with you.

[Crafter_Man]

A bit of trivia: most SA beers are brewed in Cincinnati. So I am supporting my home state by drinking SA. :)

My two favorite SA beers are Boston Lager and Summer Ale. I do not like their overly-fruity/sweet beers like Cherry Wheat, Cream Stout, and Honey Porter. Yuck.

[Lazlo]

I feel I should be angry with you.
Indeed. I didn't even click the damned link and I still have the stupid thing stuck in my head.

[Snooooopy]

Sam Adams is just not as good as SAMUEL JACKSON BEER! IT'LL GET YA DRUNK!

[Martin Hyde]

Sam Adams for all intents and purposes is a Miller Product. It's distributed by Miller's distribution network in every major market and it's contract brewed by Miller across the country. Sam Adams is a macrobrew, period. That doesn't make them bad, but they in no way are a beachhead in a sea of macrobrews. Sam Adams is Miller's faux-microbrew product and they collaborate to market and sell it. Blue Moon is Coor's (now owned by Miller) faux-microbrew and it too was distributed by Miller in the east and Coors in the west (now merged into one). When you see Blue Moon on tap, you're simply seeing more Miller.

Budwesier is heavily investing in Goose Island as well as a few other large regional microbrews in an attempt to gain parity with Miller on this front since it's Michelob/Shock Top/Bare Knuckle bands haven't taken hold. It's unclear if Budweiser intends to take one regional microbrew national or if it intends to compete locally with Sam Adams and Blue Moon with a bunch of more independent local partners. In Chicago the latter is apparently effective as Goose Island's main lines (Honkers and 312) is gaining steam over the Miller offerings, whether they'll take 312 and Honkers to the Coasts is yet to be determined or if they'll continue to leverage relationships with brands like Widmer/Redhook in the west in various regions.

Not sure what point you're actually making. No, Sam Adams is not a Miller product and your reasons for saying it is are simply asinine.

It's like saying Dr. Pepper/7UP soft drinks are really products of Coke or Pepsi (both Coke and Pepsi control large parts of the Dr. Pepper/7UP bottling and distribution business.) I don't think anyone would deny that those distribution and bottling ties to the "big two" are essential for Dr. Pepper/7UP soft drinks being ubiquitous in their availability, but it's an entirely separately owned company with different product design staff and et cetera.

Same deal with the Boston Beer Company, it's irrelevant if 100% of their distribution network is controlled by another company, if they are legally a separate company (not a subsidiary or majority owned by another company) and they have their own product development staff it's just simply factually incorrect to present the idea that Sam Adams is a Miller product.

Another salient point is even if it was a Miller product, that doesn't impact whether it's a good beer. The only thing it would impact is whether it was "technically" defined as a craft brewer by the American Brewers Association.

There are wholly owned subsidiaries of macrobrews that produce decent beer, Leinenkugel is an SABMiller owned company and produces good beer, the aforementioned Blue Moon created by Coors is not a bad beer (typically where I buy beer I can find 2-3 better Belgian white style ales so I don't often drink it, but it's worlds better than Coors Light or any of the mainstream Coors products.)

So I guess I'm left confused what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to bash the quality of Sam Adams because of who distributes it? Well, that's obviously a matter of opinion, but the "weight of public opinion" at both beer festivals and on sights like Beer Advocate are that Sam Adams is substantially higher quality than any of the mainstream Macrobrew products in the United States. I think the top 10 best selling individual beer types in the U.S. are: Bud Light, Budweiser, Miller Lite, Coors Light, Corona Extra, Natural Light, Heineken, Michelob Ultra Light, Busch Light, Miller High Life. I can tell you in my own personal opinion, the opinion of various beer festivals, and the opinion of sites like Beer Advocate Sam Adams is in a whole different tier of quality than any of those ten named beers. So even if it was a Miller product, it wouldn't mean it was a bad beer.

However, it isn't a Miller product nor is it a macrobrew. Based on the technical (meaning the only one I give a shit about) definition of "craft brewery" the American Brewer's Association says a craft brewer is any brewer with less than 6,000,000 barrels in annual production and who are not 24% or more owned by a brewer with more than 6m barrels in annual production.

Further, I think your characterization of the relationship between Boston Beer Company and SABMiller does not hold up to factual scrutiny, this is from the Boston Beer Company's annual report:

The Company-owned breweries are located in Breinigsville, Pennsylvania, Cincinnati, Ohio and Boston, Massachusetts. The Pennsylvania and Cincinnati
Breweries produce the full range of the Company's core brands and produce most of the Company's shipment volume. The Pennsylvania Brewery is the
Company's largest brewery and was purchased from Diageo North America Inc. ("Diageo") in June 2008. The Cincinnati Brewery is the primary brewery for
the production of most of the Company's specialty and lower volume products. The Company's Boston Brewery production is mainly for developing new
types of innovative and traditional beers and brewing and packaging beers in the Samuel Adams Barrel Room Collection and certain keg beers for the local
market. Product development entails researching market needs and competitive products, sample brewing and market taste testing. Most of the Company's
Samuel Adams beers are produced at the Boston Brewery in the course of each year.

The Company currently has a brewing and packaging services agreement with City Brewing Company, LLC, to produce its products at facilities in Latrobe,
Pennsylvania and La Crosse, Wisconsin as well as agreements with MillerCoors, Nestlé Professional Vitality and Pleasant Valley Wine Company to brew
and/or package at facilities in Eden, North Carolina, Chicago, Illinois and Hammondsport, New York, respectively. The brewing and packaging agreements
with MillerCoors and Nestlé Professional Vitality are expiring during the first quarter of 2012 and the Company does not expect them to be renewed. The
Company carefully selects breweries and packaging facilities owned by others with (i) the capability of utilizing traditional brewing methods and (ii) first-rate
quality control capabilities throughout brewing, fermentation, finishing and packaging. Under its brewing and packaging arrangements with third parties, the
Company is charged a per unit rate for its products that are produced at each of the facilities and bears the costs of raw materials, excise taxes and deposits for
pallets and kegs and specialized equipment required to brew and package the Company's beers.

[Boyo Jim]

I'll happily send you a care package of whatever you'd like from the sunshine state in return for Belgian Red, and other NG offerings. Just sayin.....We got Cigar City, Terrapin, The Funky Buddha....

If you can figure out safe packaging for beer bottles through the mail, maybe we can do a deal. I live about 45 minutes drive from the brewery.

[Boyo Jim]

I'll happily send you a care package of whatever you'd like from the sunshine state in return for Belgian Red, and other NG offerings. Just sayin.....We got Cigar City, Terrapin, The Funky Buddha....

I just looked through their website, and you can have them ship beer directly to you via UPS (http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/index.cfm/general/giftshop). And the shipping is free if your order is more than $60.

[Crafter_Man]

The Pennsylvania and Cincinnati Breweries produce the full range of the Company's core brands and produce most of the Company's shipment volume. The Pennsylvania Brewery is the Company's largest brewery and was purchased from Diageo North America Inc. ("Diageo") in June 2008. The Cincinnati Brewery is the primary brewery for the production of most of the Company's specialty and lower volume products.
I stand corrected... I thought their Cincinnati brewery produced the most beer. Interesting.