Vocal Fry- Can we please make it against the law?

[ThelmaLou]

I'm hearing it a lot on the radio, and Melissa Block of NPR's "All Things Considered" is one of the worst offenders. I makes me grind my teeth and want to drive my car into a telephone pole.

A curious vocal pattern has crept into the speech of young adult women who speak American English: low, creaky vibrations, also called vocal fry. Pop singers, such as Britney Spears, slip vocal fry into their music as a way to reach low notes and add style. Now, a new study of young women in New York state shows that the same guttural vibration—once considered a speech disorder—has become a language fad. Vocal fry, or glottalization, is a low, staccato vibration during speech, produced by a slow fluttering of the vocal cords. MORE (http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/12/vocal-fry-creeping-into-us-speec.html)

I say we go back to calling it a speech disorder and send people to therapy for it.

[Acid Lamp]

No. Some of us just have gravelly voices. I agree it does sound odd when women do it excessively though.

[Acsenray]

I've also heard it described as creaky voice. The Olson Twins do it.

[Rhythmdvl]

I think Fry should give up singing and stick with his holophonor lessons.

[ThelmaLou]

No. Some of us just have gravelly voices. I agree it does sound odd when women do it excessively though.
If your voice is naturally gravelly, more power to you. You're not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about young women who do it deliberately.

[elfkin477]

Um... some youtube examples of people actually speaking this way? The only person I've heard that sounds anything like this explanation mp3 (http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/vocalfryshort.mp3) was some actress from before my parents were born, not something I associate with young women.

[MsWhatsit]

There's a pretty good example here. (http://popcrush.com/kesha-britney-spears-vocal-fry-speaking-trend/)

Edit: Even better example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY). This one is someone doing an exaggerated version for effect, but it makes it easier to understand what she's referring to.

[Becky2844]

Is it that sort of low, strained voice that I think of as "valley girl talk?" If so, I hate it. Hate hate hate it.

[Inner Stickler]

Languagelog (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626) had a post on this a while ago. Their conclusion? It's not a new thing by any means, moderate use is unlikely to be damaging and there haven't been enough studies with far-ranging enough populations to say whether it's increased in the young female demographic.

My opinion? It's a thing that people do and calling attention to it like this is just going to embarrass people who didn't realize they're doing it and encourage others to increase their use of it, just to annoy you.

[guizot]

Is it that sort of low, strained voice that I think of as "valley girl talk?" If so, I hate it. Hate hate hate it.My personal theory is that the increasing use of vocal fry was kind of natural counterpoint to uptalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptalk), (which also is considered to have "valley talk" origins, though I kind of disagree). This is because rising intonation traditionally indicated uncertainty, so the vocal fry came into use more and more in order to counteract that. It strives create an illusion of authority.

[Kenm]

Mae West was a practitioner. Apparently it peeled her a lot of grapes.

[Tim R. Mortiss]

Listening to that "even better example," I couldn't help but think of Amber (aka Cutthroat Bitch) from House, MD.

[kirk1168]

My personal theory is that the increasing use of vocal fry was kind of natural counterpoint to uptalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptalk), (which also is considered to have "valley talk" origins, though I kind of disagree). This is because rising intonation traditionally indicated uncertainty, so the vocal fry came into use more and more in order to counteract that. It strives create an illusion of authority.

I find vocal fry much less annoying than uptalk.

[hajario]

Yet another thing that I never noticed before that will, now that I am aware of it, annoy the hell out of me.

Thanks.

[hajario]

Yet another thing that I never noticed before that will, now that I am aware of it, annoy the hell out of me.

Thanks.

I just heard the first example of it on TV.

[Sunspace]

I've heard "vocal fry" for years. I think it's also called "creaky voice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creaky_voice)". Like uptalk, I always thought of it as a West Coast thing.

[kaylasdad99]

Is that what Jessica Simpson is always doing that makes her sound like she's trying to give the effect of singing from her bed and inviting you in?

[Senegoid]

I'm hearing it a lot on the radio, and Melissa Block of NPR's "All Things Considered" is one of the worst offenders. I makes me grind my teeth and want to drive my car into a telephone pole.


I say we go back to calling it a speech disorder and send people to therapy for it.

Opinion I heard from a doctor many years ago: Being a teenager is a disease.
Fortunately, it tends to be what they call a "self-limiting" disease.

This is good news, since no effective therapy is known.
"Valley girl" speech disorders may simply be but one symptom.

[Inner Stickler]

I find vocal fry much less annoying than uptalk.I once had a spanish class with a girl who valleygirled her spanish. I'm pretty laissez faire about speech patterns and even I wanted to slap her after a classworth of it.

[HMS Irruncible]

My personal theory is that the increasing use of vocal fry was kind of natural counterpoint to uptalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptalk), (which also is considered to have "valley talk" origins, though I kind of disagree). This is because rising intonation traditionally indicated uncertainty, so the vocal fry came into use more and more in order to counteract that. It strives create an illusion of authority.
Do you really think anyone consciously changes their speech pattern to seem more or less authoritative? When women fry the trailing end of their sentences, they sound like diffident teenagers with quaking knees reading a book report in front of the class.

I agree it's related to uptalk, sans the BS psychoanalysis. It's just what young girls do because a lot of other young girls do it. In 15 years it will be something else, and someone will be characterizing it as a function of their confidence (or lack thereof).

[kanicbird]

It does add more definition to speech, it helps convey meaning beyond what just the words alone can do. It that so bad for society that we need to force girls to undergo intensive therapy and discipline to prevent it from becoming mainstream? It is bad that the spoken word can contain more meaning then the written?

[psychonaut]

A curious vocal pattern has crept into the speech of young adult women who speak American English: low, creaky vibrations, also called vocal fry. Pop singers, such as Britney Spears, slip vocal fry into their music as a way to reach low notes and add style.Curiously, nobody complained about this twenty years ago when singers such as Kurt Cobain were doing this (even to excess, in songs such as Lounge Act and Moist Vagina), but now that Britney Spears is doing it, suddenly it's a horrible epidemic?

[Ludovic]

I don't complain about Britney Spears doing it mainly because I never listen to Britney Spears.

[Half Man Half Wit]

Sounds a little like the 'Grudge' sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XwWIepDRp4)...

[guizot]

Do you really think anyone consciously changes their speech pattern to seem more or less authoritative? No, not consciously. Although I think "authoritative" probably isn't the best word--maybe "more weighty" or "more presumptive" are better ways to describe it. There are other ways that they do this (expressions such as whatever, as if, and so on).

[TonySinclair]

Do you really think anyone consciously changes their speech pattern to seem more or less authoritative?

Yes. A LOT of women reporters pitch their voice as low as they can, evidently because they think it makes them sound more serious. It's annoying enough when they stay within their natural limits, and I can't stand it when they go beyond them, and start growling. I've pretty much stopped listening to Amy Goodman for exactly that reason.

And it's not just women. I'm looking at you, Henry Kissinger.

[Mangetout]

Is this Vocal Fry thing what Richard Burton was doing?

http://youtu.be/uuPO2Kvqlms?t=6s

[heathen earthling]

Edit: Even better example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY). This one is someone doing an exaggerated version for effect, but it makes it easier to understand what she's referring to.

This is confusing to me, because she seems to be mixing the vocal fry with other annoying vocal affectations in her demonstration of it. The voice she does sounds a bit like the cartoon character Lumpy Space Princess (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJTrD3R5cj0), but LSP's voice doesn't have the vocal fry vibrations in it. Do people ever do the vocal fry on their normal voices without any other effects?

[SciFiSam]

Is this Vocal Fry thing what Richard Burton was doing?

http://youtu.be/uuPO2Kvqlms?t=6s

That just sounds to me like a deep voice that occasionally - a few words in the whole recording there - goes a bit gravelly. The Vocal Fry thing is people who naturally have a higher-pitched voice going much deeper and gravelly for effect.

I'd forgotten what a gorgeous voice Richard Burton had.

[Johanna]

I've been noticing it in young women for several years, especially as noted at the trailing end of an utterance. It makes me curious: Why is it such a young-woman phenomenon? My daughters have picked it up (but just a little).

[Lamia]

I've been noticing it in young women for several years, especially as noted at the trailing end of an utterance. It makes me curious: Why is it such a young-woman phenomenon? My daughters have picked it up (but just a little).I saw a story about vocal fry in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/science/young-women-often-trendsetters-in-vocal-patterns.html) the other day, and it quoted linguistic experts as saying that new vocal trends (unsurprisingly) tend to originate/spread faster among young people, and also that women tend to adapt the new trends earlier than men. This means one can generally expect young women to be the earliest adapters of a new vocal trend.

[ThelmaLou]

No, not what Richard Burton did. That was just his yummy voice. What I'm talking about is a current practice of women, especially young women. A fad. Like valleygirl-speak was for a while.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

If we're gonna make anything against the law, I'd love to make frivolous judgment of other folks' linguistic and vocal patterns against the law. It invariably comes across as a status-fight to me, folks saying, "Me, I'm so secure in who I am that I don't need to do those things that those insecure people do, see how secure I am? I mock them!" Blech.

Failing that, however, I'd like to register my opposition to the Great Vowel Shift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift).

[Acsenray]

Whan in Aprill, with his showrs soote the droghte of March has perced to the roote and bathed every vein in switch licour ....

[Doug K.]

I started noticing (and being bugged by) this in the mid 90s. At first I mostly heard it from teenage girls. I always thought of it as The Gene Pitney (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3EXtqm8rh8&feature=related) Growl.

[Angel of the Lord]

I had no idea that I did this, but listening to podcasts I recorded about three years ago? Oh yes. I totally do. Didn't even know that I was. Attributing it to pop singers is kind of dumb, though--I've never really listened to them. But I'm a 28 year-old female, and I totally do it.

[amarinth]

Huh - I've never heard of it as a "thing" before, but I do that.

And actually, I tend to do it more often when I don't want attention, but for some reason find myself speaking when I have nothing to say. It's a slightly more audible mutter.

It's completely different than "Valley Girl" speak, which is high, at the top of the mouth (practically nasal, in fact), and frequently has a ton of upspeak. When I do this, it's low and in the back and base of my throat. Just because "valley" is an annoying affectation, doesn't make every annoying affectation "valley girl"

[ThelmaLou]

The way that vocal fry and valley girl speak are alike is that they're both affectations. No one is saying they SOUND the same.

[Little Nemo]

I'm more irritated by the opposite effect - women talking in a falsetto voice.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

FWIW, part of my advice to beginning teachers might encourage vocal fry. Classroom management is really stressful, especially when you're beginning your career, and when you get stressed, your muscles tense, and for a lot of people, this means your throat tenses, and that stretches your vocal cords, causing your vocal pitch to rise. At the same time, people often talk faster and faster when they get stressed.

A high voice going at top speed tends to express agitation. When you're in charge of a classroom that's already a bit out of control, the last thing you want to do is to add a loud, agitated voice to the mix: it just exacerbates the problem, makes everything spiral even farther out of control.

So I tell new teachers to watch for this. Instead of going loud, fast, and squeaky, you want to take a deep breath to relax those vocal cords, and then go quiet, slow, and deep. (And a bit menacing). Instead of communicating excitement, you communicate calm and control; folks have to listen carefully to hear you, and the menace gives them a reason to listen; the low voice, sometimes almost a growl, is very often almost hypnotic.

It's totally counterintuitive, as are many parts of classroom management, but in my experience the low-slow-soft approach works much, much better than the intuitive high-fast-loud approach does. And if this leads to vocal fry, who on earth could be bothered to care?

[cjepson]

If we're gonna make anything against the law, I'd love to make frivolous judgment of other folks' linguistic and vocal patterns against the law. It invariably comes across as a status-fight to me, folks saying, "Me, I'm so secure in who I am that I don't need to do those things that those insecure people do, see how secure I am? I mock them!" Blech.

You may be right, and yet somehow, I can't help it -- vocal fry is just like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It's like a visceral reaction I have.

[ThelmaLou]

You may be right, and yet somehow, I can't help it -- vocal fry is just like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It's like a visceral reaction I have.
Ab-so-freakin'-lutely.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

You may be right, and yet somehow, I can't help it -- vocal fry is just like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It's like a visceral reaction I have.Hmm...I'm still skeptical. There's a certain aspect of our culture in which people form their identity in a Princess-and-the-Pea fashion, in which they take pride in being irritated by things. Fingernails on a chalkboard is a pretty universal response. This response to vocal fry? Maybe it's similar, but the fact that it's something young women get snarked at for, along with the pseudopsychological evaluations of why the young women are doing it, makes me think it's a Princess-and-the-Pea situation, not a nails-on-a-chalkboard situation.

I could, of course, be totally wrong, in which case I'm guilty of exactly what I think y'all are guilty of. :)

[Taomist]

Is it that sort of low, strained voice that I think of as "valley girl talk?" If so, I hate it. Hate hate hate it.

Sure sounds like it to me. When was that EVER attractive?

[cjepson]

Hmm...I'm still skeptical. There's a certain aspect of our culture in which people form their identity in a Princess-and-the-Pea fashion, in which they take pride in being irritated by things. Fingernails on a chalkboard is a pretty universal response. This response to vocal fry? Maybe it's similar, but the fact that it's something young women get snarked at for, along with the pseudopsychological evaluations of why the young women are doing it, makes me think it's a Princess-and-the-Pea situation, not a nails-on-a-chalkboard situation.

I could, of course, be totally wrong, in which case I'm guilty of exactly what I think y'all are guilty of. :)

No, I think this is a complex area. There are certain things that grate on me, and sometimes when I get called on it, I find it surprisingly hard to articulate why they grate on me. Is it a snobbishness that operates at such a deep level that I'm not even aware of it? And to make things more complex, where's the line between snobbishness and plain personal taste? Clearly it's human nature to like certain things and dislike others. If I dislike Wonder bread, is it because I'm an elitist or is it just that I prefer more texture? Or both?

Not giving any real answers here... just meandering.

[ThelmaLou]

For me, it's not what the vocal affectation means or why girls do it or whether it's a status thing or whatever... it's the sound itself. Like the Kit-Kat commercial where everyone is crunching. As soon as it comes on, I hit the mute button.

[choie]

Unfortunately, I do this. For me it has nothing to do with imitating others and everything to do with being an inhibited and shy person with low self-esteem who sort of... wants to swallow everything I say because I'm afraid of being heard. I judge every word out of my mouth, and sometimes if I notice I'm talking for too long a time, I start kinda shutting down and swallowing the words (that's really the only way I can describe it) as if to apologize for speaking.

As in that "extreme" video mentioned above, it's definitely bad for the throat, and my vocal teacher back in college desperately tried to teach me to speak properly, so that my throat would get less scratchy and sore, and instead would better conduct the air (and voice, obviously) through the throat.

The funny thing is that because of this habit, my speaking voice sounds nothing like my singing voice, which is lyric soprano.

Here's an example. It's kind of a long podcast (I do one every month) and usually I start out with a more upbeat, clear voice--which I do purposely because I'm always telling myself, "DON'T SWALLOW YOUR WORDS THIS TIME!" but about ten minutes in it creeps back in.

- Speaking voice (http://epiguide.tumblr.com/post/12995527681/epicast-001-pilot) (I'm the girl; you can hear me trying to start properly but ending up vocal frying all in my introductory sentences! I get better in later podcasts but still, ugh.)

- Singing voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrQkkx-yzQ) (admittedly, 25 years younger, but my speaking voice was just as low then--lower, in fact! I used to be afraid I'd be cast in male roles because I sounded so butch.)

[hogarth]

(Resurrecting an old thread)

Last week, I visited the Statue of Liberty and I almost started laughing when I heard one of the women speaking on the audio tour. "The Statue of Libertehhhh was dedicated in ehhhteen-ehhhhty-sehhhhhx..."

[BigT]

Curiously, nobody complained about this twenty years ago when singers such as Kurt Cobain were doing this (even to excess, in songs such as Lounge Act and Moist Vagina), but now that Britney Spears is doing it, suddenly it's a horrible epidemic?

That's because it doesn't sound so bad (1) in singing and (2) when its really low. We're talking about about women who use it in the tenor range while talking. You can just hear how bad it sounds.

It also doesn't help that speaking in that register is associated with Valley Girl speech where it is used for condescension purposes, as in that exaggerated video.

[BigT]

- Speaking voice (http://epiguide.tumblr.com/post/12995527681/epicast-001-pilot) (I'm the girl; you can hear me trying to start properly but ending up vocal frying all in my introductory sentences! I get better in later podcasts but still, ugh.)

- Singing voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrQkkx-yzQ) (admittedly, 25 years younger, but my speaking voice was just as low then--lower, in fact! I used to be afraid I'd be cast in male roles because I sounded so butch.)

You're doing it in the natural way, not the annoying way. And your voice is low enough that it's nowhere near as grating.

Also, many sopranos don't really have a high voice--they just have a really wide range.

EDIT: I say that, but you sound like a mezzo, or even high contralto. You're having to belt out a high F. You sound like you have the same range as my vocal instructor in college, and she called herself a mezzo.

[aruvqan]

I'm more irritated by the opposite effect - women talking in a falsetto voice.
That japanese "little girl" squeek and giggle ... argh.

[levdrakon]

Still not sure what vocal fry is. Valley talk I'm familiar with.

What annoys me a bit is so many youngish people on TV sound like they have nasal congestion or something.

[Acsenray]

Still not sure what vocal fry is.

This is a demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY). It's the creaky sound at the very bottom of the speaker's range.

[levdrakon]

This is a demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY). It's the creaky sound at the very bottom of the speaker's range.I listened to that. It's a funny video, but to me it just sounds like she's valley girl talking.

[Leaffan]

I don't understand the backlash.

I don't understand the issue.

I don't see any problem in the speech pattern.

I don't know why anyone in the known universe would complain about this.

I need to go to sleep before growing an aneurism.

Good night.

[Acsenray]

I listened to that. It's a funny video, but to me it just sounds like she's valley girl talking.

Listen to the points at which her voice goes the lowest and starts creaking. Vocal fry is also called "creaky voice."

[Chefguy]

I don't understand the backlash.

I don't understand the issue.

I don't see any problem in the speech pattern.

I don't know why anyone in the known universe would complain about this.

I need to go to sleep before growing an aneurism.

Good night.

It actually causes damage to the vocal chords, which are rapidly vibrating when this affectation is used. The human voice is not designed to do this on a sustained basis. It's same sort of thing for a male singer who screams lyrics. You can do this safely if you've been trained for it; otherwise, you're going to fuck up your voice in short order. A damaged larynx is just asking for much worse problems.

[wheresmymind]

From one of the links upthread, quoting one of the authors of a study that looked at it's use among students:

“Anecdotally, vocal fry is judged to be annoying by those who are not as young as the college students we tested.”

Get off of my lawn! :-P

[gallows fodder]

Since reading this thread, I've noticed that a lot of men do this too, but I guess it's not as noticeable since their vocal registers are already low. They'll speak smoothly for a bit and then dip into a gravelly voice and then come back out into their regular voice. So is it just damaging when women do it, or should there be a cross-gender PSA campaign?

[hogarth]

I don't understand the backlash.

I don't understand the issue.

I don't see any problem in the speech pattern.

I don't know why anyone in the known universe would complain about this.
I pretty much felt the same way, but when I heard that young woman croaking about the Statue of Liberty it definitely lacked a certain gravitas. The same would apply for an uptalker? who keeps raising her voice? and makes it sound like she's always asking a question? or like, a someone who like, uses the word "like" every, like, five seconds.

[elbows]

Teenage girls love affectations, that's hardly news.

Affectations have a way of becoming first habits, then vices. It almost seems like we long for what Britain has, where everyone can be defined by their accents. Their politics, their education, their social status, their economic background. Not 100% definitive, obviously, but you catch my drift.

Like listening to screaming loud tunes on your ear buds, it makes you feel all bad ass rebellious and separate from 'adults', but when it becomes, with ease, a habit, it has pretty far reaching implications. If you still want to hear your grandchildren laugh, at some point you're going to have to dial that back. If you wish to have a voice not like Stephen Hawkings then you better throw off this affectation pretty quickly, too, in my opinion.

[levdrakon]

Listen to the points at which her voice goes the lowest and starts creaking. Vocal fry is also called "creaky voice."I'm reminded of Moon Zappa's 1982 cut, "Valley Girl." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufYYOXiEtxM) That speaking style has been around for quite some time. I guess vocal fry is just a sub-part of val speak.

[amarinth]

I'm reminded of Moon Zappa's 1982 cut, "Valley Girl." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufYYOXiEtxM) That speaking style has been around for quite some time. I guess vocal fry is just a sub-part of val speak.That's kind of like hearing Snoop from The Wire and saying she sounds cockney. "Valley girl" and "vocal fry" sound absolutely nothing alike to me.

[levdrakon]

That's kind of like hearing Snoop from The Wire and saying she sounds cockney. "Valley girl" and "vocal fry" sound absolutely nothing alike to me.Really? (never watched the Wire) Huh.

Is this guy demonstrating (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EgH5ikvKyc&feature=related) what you're thinking of?

[tellyworth]

Can someone link to an example of the annoying kind of vocal fry OP is complaining about, that doesn't consist of someone deliberately exaggerating and mocking it?

[thelabdude]

We have too many laws. Those with such a disorder should be offered therapy before access to a mike.

[ThelmaLou]

Can someone link to an example of the annoying kind of vocal fry OP is complaining about, that doesn't consist of someone deliberately exaggerating and mocking it?

Melissa Block on NPR's "All Things Considered" does it. Listen to this story:

Finger-Pointing Follows Ousting Of U.Va. President (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/19/155380951/finger-pointing-follows-ousting-of-u-va-president)

When you click the play button, there is about a 10-second promo of a Summer Books program. When Melissa talks in the U of Va. story, note how at the end of almost every sentence, her voice dips to a growl. (Maybe this is payback for the years of Valley Girl rising inflection that used to end every sentence.) I listen to her every day on NPR and this is her typical way of speaking. The other day she was interviewing a guy who used vocal fry (much rarer in men, so I understand), and it was seriously annoying.

[ThelmaLou]

Here's another reference to it (and Melissa) from Long Island University. (http://www.liu.edu/CWPost/Academics/Research/Faculty.aspx) Scroll down on the linked page to the following title:

"Speech Pathologists Study 'Vocal Fry' Fad Among Young Women"

Vocal fry is not a new speech pattern. It can occur in the speech of individuals devoid of a voice disorder, and is believed to serve an array of linguistic purposes such as marking the end of sentences, signaling turn-taking and conveying authority. It is detectable in the voices of radio news broadcasters (Melissa Block), movie stars (Reese Witherspoon), pop stars (Ke$ha and Britney Spears), and TV celebrities (Kim Kardashian, pictured).

[levdrakon]

Melissa Block on NPR's "All Things Considered" does it. Listen to this story:

Finger-Pointing Follows Ousting Of U.Va. President (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/19/155380951/finger-pointing-follows-ousting-of-u-va-president)I thought that was standard newscaster voice.

[Una Persson]

Dear GOD, so that's what that's called!

My sister started speaking like that nearly a decade ago, and it stuck.

[Max Torque]

Sounds a little like the 'Grudge' sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XwWIepDRp4)...

Ha! First thing I thought of when I heard MsWhatsit's second example.

[ThelmaLou]

Here's a better example of vocal fry from NPR's Allison Aubrey (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/06/25/155588094/we-evolved-to-eat-meat-but-how-much-is-too-much) that I heard this morning. She doesn't just drop her voice at the end of each sentence like Melissa Block; she growls through the whole sentence. Note that in the recorded parts when she's speaking with the interviewee, her voice is normal, but when she narrates, the growl is continuous.

[Acsenray]

Oh, yes.

For those who are still not catching it, listen to how she says "trying to look like one"

[MoonMoon]

This is confusing to me, because she seems to be mixing the vocal fry with other annoying vocal affectations in her demonstration of it. The voice she does sounds a bit like the cartoon character Lumpy Space Princess (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJTrD3R5cj0), but LSP's voice doesn't have the vocal fry vibrations in it. Do people ever do the vocal fry on their normal voices without any other effects?

Yes, just listen to NPR (for me, Alix Spiegel is the worst offender by far) or visit a college campus. It's a downright epidemic at both places. Count me in the 'nails on a chalkboard' group.

And hi! Longtime lurker, first time poster.

[Thunderpuss 5000]

Um... some youtube examples of people actually speaking this way? The only person I've heard that sounds anything like this explanation mp3 (http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/vocalfryshort.mp3) was some actress from before my parents were born, not something I associate with young women.

Are you serious? You're from NH; ever been to Boston? Every college and post-college woman in the city speaks like this. Even the 30-something moms in the Boston suburbs use voice-fry and upspeak -as if they're still in their 20s. Makes me want to gauge my eyes out.

The other thing that drives me f....ng crazy: people who start a post with, "um..". Biggest verbiage cliche in the history of the internet.

[Acsenray]

I used to participate in a message board that banned starting posts with "umm ...." For the reason that it was too condescending and thus jerkish.

[Troppus]

I used to participate in a message board that banned starting posts with "umm ...." For the reason that it was too condescending and thus jerkish.

That would be a good rule for life in general. Ban "umm..." and "You do know, don't you, that blah blah blah" if you want people to hear you.

[ThelmaLou]

Glad this thread was revived, as I've been hearing more and more of it on NPR. I have to stop myself from driving into a tree.

[Just Ed]

Makes me want to gauge my eyes out.With one of these (http://www.dsexls.com/images/optometry-equipment2.jpg), maybe?

[Little Wing]

Is that what that annoying voice over chick is doing in all those commercials? "S. E. Johnson, a family company." The way she says "family" seriously grates and has me diving for the mute.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

One of the worst offenders of this trend is Jane Velez Mitchell (http://www.hlntv.com/shows/jane-velez-mitchell)

[Ambivalid]

Being a teenager is a disease.

<snip> no effective therapy is known.


Ahhh but you are forgetting the most trusted therapy of them all: time.

[Senegoid]

Ahhh but you are forgetting the most trusted therapy of them all: time.

That's what the doctors mean when they call teen-age a "self-limiting disease"

[CookingWithGas]

Mae West was a practitioner. Apparently it peeled her a lot of grapes.Mae West didn't have creaky voice. She purred. :)

[Cat Whisperer]

Since I read this thread a while ago, I've noticed a lot of vocal fry in women around me. One thing I'm noticing is that it is very contagious - I have to consciously not imitate them.

[Heracles]

This 60-Second Science podcast (http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=a-quirk-of-speech-may-become-a-new-11-12-17) about vocal fry is kinda meta.

Now, will somebody explain the whole "valley girl" thing? What valley?

[antechinus]

Well, I am glad there is a name for this annoying affectation.

I have noticed it in some people for about 10 years. Seems to be an effort for the speaker to achieve empathy with the listener when speaker has a low self esteem or feels submissive .

[antechinus]

This 60-Second Science podcast (http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=a-quirk-of-speech-may-become-a-new-11-12-17) about vocal fry is kinda meta.

Now, will somebody explain the whole "valley girl" thing? What valley?

Moon Unit Zappa Valley Girl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb21lsCQ3EM&feature=fvwrel)

[Heracles]

Moon Unit Zappa Valley Girl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb21lsCQ3EM&feature=fvwrel)

Eeeew. Like, totally gross.

Thanks. I should have googled it; I'd just never heard the expression before.

[Frylock]

This whole thread is based on a mistake (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626). The original report linked in the OP mischaracterizes the research very badly. There is no "creeping in" of vocal fry. It has always been here.

[ThelmaLou]

This whole thread is based on a mistake (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626). The original report linked in the OP mischaracterizes the research very badly. There is no "creeping in" of vocal fry. It has always been here.

Even though the phenomenon has always existed, I (for one) was never aware of it in anyone I know IRL. I first noticed it in Melissa Block on NPR's All Things Considered. Now I hear it in many of NPR's young-ish women reporters. The point of this thread isn't the creep, it's the aggravation the practice produces in the ears of the listener. There's no mistake about that.

I don't care about the accuracy of the research. I only put that in there to kick off the conversation and to describe the practice for those who had heard it but didn't know what to call it.

[Acsenray]

What valley?

The San Fernando Valley — essentially the northern suburbs of Los Angeles and the capital of the porn industry.

[CookingWithGas]

[amateur psychologist]The reason that vocal fry, valley girl dialect, and upspeak are annoying to some people is the practitioners are mindlessly joining a group to gain a feeling of belonging by adopting behavior that has no intrinsic value but serves to tie them to the group. The demographic who has the most intense need to belong to a group are the 12-24 age range, an age when people are still developing their identity. Not having established their own identity, they use the identity of a group as a substitute. Males and females both do things to belong to a group including fashion, hair, and manner of speech, but the males tend to form a different group ("Dude!") than the females ("Oh! My! God!") It is annoying to those who are not part of the group and who are put off by the very need to conform. This annoyance may be intensified in those who passed through exactly the same phase and are painfully reminded of their own awkward youth when they see others in the same state.[/amateur psychologist]

Now, will somebody explain the whole "valley girl" thing? What valley?Aside from the vivid demo, the valley is the San Fernando Valley outside L.A.

[ThelmaLou]

I've also read or heard that girls/women think they will have more credibility if they pitch their voices lower than is natural, which is prolly why one hears it so much from NPR reporters. I think that might be true up to a point... I mean a high-pitched, squeaky, girly cartoon voice reporting from a war zone or from the Supreme Court might not necessarily inspire confidence. But pitching your voice unnaturally low so it sounds like a robot growl is going too far in the other direction.

[CookingWithGas]

I've also read or heard that girls/women think they will have more credibility if they pitch their voices lower than is natural, which is prolly why one hears it so much from NPR reporters. I think that might be true up to a point... ....But pitching your voice unnaturally low so it sounds like a robot growl is going too far in the other direction.It's possible to pitch your voice lower but if you do it, you also have to support the tone with the diaphragm. That's what voice coaches teach you. If you don't, and you just push the air out with your throat, then you get fry.

[ThelmaLou]

It's possible to pitch your voice lower but if you do it, you also have to support the tone with the diaphragm. That's what voice coaches teach you. If you don't, and you just push the air out with your throat, then you get fry.
There ya go!

[gallows fodder]

Since I read this thread a while ago, I've noticed a lot of vocal fry in women around me. One thing I'm noticing is that it is very contagious - I have to consciously not imitate them.

This thread has made me notice it more, too, but I've also noticed that men do it as well. It's not a female-only phenomenon, it's just not as noticeable in men since their voices are low, and some men have naturally (or unnaturally via smoking) raspy voices to begin with.

[Leaffan]

I think Moon Zappa is hot. Wow.

[Aeschines]

Is pointing out vocal fry the new slut-shaming?!

[CookingWithGas]

Is pointing out vocal fry the new slut-shaming?!Being annoyed by speech patterns is just being annoyed and doesn't pass judgment on the morality of the subject. So, no. BTW I didn't know there was an old slut-shaming as a particular thing other than the usual that's been going on forever.

[WOOKINPANUB]

I have never heard the term vocal fry and had no idea what the OP was refering to. I know the Britney Spears voice thingy she's talking about - I liken it more to dolphins and call it "doing the Flipper" - but to me it's a totally different phenomenon than that thing some people do when speaking. As someone who grew up in SoCal in the 80s, it sure does sound related to Valley Speak, only when we did it we were relating to the surfers who spoke that way, mostly because their voices were raspy from smoking pot. In my opinion, yes it sure as hell is annoying and it is a very deliberate affectation. I remember speaking that way for no particularly deep reason other than fitting in with the cool kids, as has been pointed out. I'd like to think most people do grow out of it, though I still hear plenty of women doing the Valley Girl upspeak way past the age when they should have gotten over it. All it took for me was my mother pointing out what a twat I sounded like at thirteen for me to cultivate it right out of my speech pattern(I still continued to smoke pot with the surfers, though). Maybe I should hold a seance and have her cosmically bitch slap it out of the voice fryers.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Good grief. I just listened to one of the NPR pieces, and there's nothing wrong whatsoever with the low tones of the speaker's voice. Folks getting annoyed by this are, in my opinion, as silly as folks who get all bothered by uptalk, another cromulent speech pattern.

We're in something of a transition in spoken English. Nothing as dramatic as the Great Vowel Shift, but it is a time of transition. The amateur psychologist in me suspects that the problem isn't with folks needing to conform to a social group (another name for which phenomenon is culture), but rather is the age-old problem of some older folks thinking that the particular cultural idiosyncrasies they learned aren't idiosyncrasies at all, but are the Right Way To Do Things.

They're not.

[WOOKINPANUB]

Good grief. I just listened to one of the NPR pieces, and there's nothing wrong whatsoever with the low tones of the speaker's voice. Folks getting annoyed by this are, in my opinion, as silly as folks who get all bothered by uptalk, another cromulent speech pattern.

We're in something of a transition in spoken English. Nothing as dramatic as the Great Vowel Shift, but it is a time of transition. The amateur psychologist in me suspects that the problem isn't with folks needing to conform to a social group (another name for which phenomenon is culture), but rather is the age-old problem of some older folks thinking that the particular cultural idiosyncrasies they learned aren't idiosyncrasies at all, but are the Right Way To Do Things.

They're not.

I didn't listen to the NPR pieces so I don't know what they're meant to illustrate. I personally find a certain, er, something in most NPR hosts' voices that grates on my nerves but I'm not sure it's the quality this thread is addressing.

Not trying to be combatative but one man's "cromulent" speech pattern is another man's source of irritation. Why are you taking umbrage that some people find it annoying, just because you don't find it so?

I absolutely don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself, but I think my experience with the Valley Speak / Vocal sautee whatever is probably not that unique, as none of the people who I grew up with who adopted it still speak that way. We did affect it as a way to conform to a social group and we did come to realize how stupid it sounds. As a middle aged fogey I have long sing learned not to use the terms "right" and "wrong" but rather what serves one and what does not. In my most humble, old fogey opinion, one is not served by speaking like a ditzy teenager.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>Maybe I should hold a seance and have her cosmically bitch slap it out of the voice fryers.Would you mind? That would be awesome. :)

[Inner Stickler]

I'm with LHoD. There's maybe a case for arguing against valleygirl, if only because it will turn old fogeys against you and is neutral for everyone else, but getting wound up about vocal fry puts you firmly in old man yelling at clouds territory. People don't all talk the way you'd like. Here's a bridge, get over it.

[WOOKINPANUB]

I'm with LHoD. There's maybe a case for arguing against valleygirl, if only because it will turn old fogeys against you and is neutral for everyone else, but getting wound up about vocal fry puts you firmly in old man yelling at clouds territory. People don't all talk the way you'd like. Here's a bridge, get over it.

So what are people allowed to have opinions about without it being chalked up to as fogeyism?? Should I assume that Valley speak is the adopted mode of vocalization for you and your friends? I mean, since you say it's neutral for "everyone else". If it's neutral for everyone else, why was it so famously mocked by someone in the very age group that favored it? There's a reason it's still made fun of.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

So what are people allowed to have opinions about without it being chalked up to as fogeyism??
I have an opinion about your fogeyism which can't be chalked up to fogeyism. You might want to put it down to my whippersnapperosity, though.

[Inner Stickler]

So what are people allowed to have opinions about without it being chalked up to as fogeyism?? Should I assume that Valley speak is the adopted mode of vocalization for you and your friends? I mean, since you say it's neutral for "everyone else". If it's neutral for everyone else, why was it so famously mocked by someone in the very age group that favored it? There's a reason it's still made fun of.Old fogey is a state of mind, not a demographic. If a 20 year old told me they hated valley girl, I'd call them an old fogey. You can assume whatever you like. There's recordings of my voice floating around though in one of the accent threads sunspace put together so you'd look a right fool, if you did so. If anything I sound more like Marge Gunderson than Cher Horowitz.

[nion]

This is one reason Australian speech patterns amuse me. I don't know if it's a recent thing, but I've noticed watching Aussies on television that they also end most all of their sentences like a question. This is regardless as to whether they are being interviewed or in a "natural" setting.

[ThelmaLou]

This is one reason Australian speech patterns amuse me. I don't know if it's a recent thing, but I've noticed watching Aussies on television that they also end most all of their sentences like a question. This is regardless as to whether they are being interviewed or in a "natural" setting.

"The rising inflection." Soon there will be a vaccine for that?

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

"The rising inflection." Soon there will be a vaccine for that?
Nah. Soon there will be a president who talks like that. It's a transition in spoken English intonation, in which a terminal rise signifies not a question but that the thought will continue.

[WOOKINPANUB]

Nah. Soon there will be a president who talks like that. It's a transition in spoken English intonation, in which a terminal rise signifies not a question but that the thought will continue.

If that's the case -and I'm setting aside snark to possibly have a civilized discussion- then why is it (mostly) limited to teens and twenty-somethings? Why do most people choose to abandon it when they reach, if not a certain age, then a certain professional / economic whatever point in their life? I can understand someone saying they don't mind or notice the vocalizations being discussed here but I never thought I'd hear anyone defend them.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

If that's the case -and I'm setting aside snark to possibly have a civilized discussion- then why is it (mostly) limited to teens and twenty-somethings? Why do most people choose to abandon it when they reach, if not a certain age, then a certain professional / economic whatever point in their life? I can understand someone saying they don't mind or notice the vocalizations being discussed here but I never thought I'd hear anyone defend them.Do you have any cites showing that people abandon it at a certain age? I'm not convinced (http://books.google.com/books?id=vCDX54DlYBYC&pg=PT384&lpg=PT384&dq=pinker+uptalk&source=bl&ots=hy39PWDi_u&sig=hmJqcJg55FuH0ccgo1jozxX6Hl4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=r0GZULGdMozc8wST94DABw&ved=0CIUBEOgBMAk):
Though uptalk probably began as a reflex of politeness (part of the twentieth-century trend toward egalitarianism and social closeness), it is becoming a neutral feature of standard American English, as it has been for centuries in some Irish, English, and Southern American dialects. The spread of uptalk is a rare case in which we can feel what it's like to be part of a historical change int he language, watching a construction as it tips from having a transparent rationale to being just a convention.
I found another article in which that famous valley girl George W. Bush (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002708.html) is cited as using uptalk. Far be it from me to hold him forth as an exemplar of good speaking; that's not remotely what I'm doing. I'm just suggesting that he might not be a teenaged girl from California. (Edit: clearly I was wrong when I said "soon we will have a president...." I should have said "We already have had a president....")

[WOOKINPANUB]

I'm not a linguist, cunning or otherwise and wouldn't begin to know how to find a cite on this subject.This thread started with someone making an observation - stating an opinion, and other people responded. I realize my anecdote does not equal proof ( then again that's why this is in IMHO and not GQ) but I was using my experience to explain how I've arrived at my conclusion. I'm just saying that when I lived in the area where it originated I made an extra special effort to speak in the way of my peers and at some point we stopped. Or at least no one at my high school reunion still spoke that way. What they do at home is anybody's guess.

Are you saying that most people (who are also not linquists) don't associate upspeak with teenagers / twenty somethings? Again, I'm not being snide, I've just never heard it as anything but a stereotype.

As for Bush, I think his Texas drawl kind of negates the upspeak thing. Technically he may be upspeaking but I don't think that's the main characteristic people notice when he blathers talks.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

I'm not a linguist, cunning or otherwise and wouldn't begin to know how to find a cite on this subject.This thread started with someone making an observation - stating an opinion, and other people responded. I realize my anecdote does not equal proof ( then again that's why this is in IMHO and not GQ) but I was using my experience to explain how I've arrived at my conclusion. I'm just saying that when I lived in the area where it originated I made an extra special effort to speak in the way of my peers and at some point we stopped. Or at least no one at my high school reunion still spoke that way. What they do at home is anybody's guess.

Are you saying that most people (who are also not linquists) don't associate upspeak with teenagers / twenty somethings? Again, I'm not being snide, I've just never heard it as anything but a stereotype.
Whether uptalk or vocal fry are annoying--these are opinions. Whether folks associate it with teenage girls and whether it's a true association are both factual claims.

It certainly seems likely to me that many folks associate it with teenage girls (although my suspicion is that most folks don't, because most folks don't notice it at all). However, what I've read suggests that that's not an accurate association. Furthermore, I think that many folks who do make such an association go on to draw the vaguely misogynistic conclusion that it's therefore a frivolous and contemptible manner of speaking. Not saying that's what you've done, but it sometimes goes down that way.

[WOOKINPANUB]

Whether uptalk or vocal fry are annoying--these are opinions. Whether folks associate it with teenage girls and whether it's a true association are both factual claims.

It certainly seems likely to me that many folks associate it with teenage girls (although my suspicion is that most folks don't, because most folks don't notice it at all). However, what I've read suggests that that's not an accurate association. Furthermore, I think that many folks who do make such an association go on to draw the vaguely misogynistic conclusion that it's therefore a frivolous and contemptible manner of speaking. Not saying that's what you've done, but it sometimes goes down that way.

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection. OVERRULED! :D (Quoting movies is my terrible speaking vice).
Thank you, though; at least I get where you're coming from. I admit to being one who finds it a frivolous and contemptible manner of speaking but I'm always open to at least hear the other side.

[hogarth]

Someone linked to the following video in another thread:
Defenestration of Prague, as explained by Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/video/0039-defenestration.htm?&t=1356284811)

Fry-tastic!

[SerafinaPekala]

Amanda Vinicky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRtIe1XbCBY)

Gahhhh!!! She seems to be getting better as she ages, but as a cub reporter on Peoria radio her sing-songy nasal fry voice was enough to make me change the station. Then she went to Springfield and then national so there's no escaping her!! :rolleyes:

Will these fry-voiced bimbos actually go mute eventually as a result?

[WOOKINPANUB]

At least I have a better idea of what "vocal fry" is. Compared to "upspeak', I'll take it any day. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority, but I'd be happy if the citizens of these united all adapted the "neutral" (media speak?) tone. I'm all for varied looks, music, dress, food, etc., but I really don't want to hear anyone's dialect or regionalisms. Yes, I know that's my quirk and therefore my problem; just saying.

[Nzinga, Seated]

At least I have a better idea of what "vocal fry" is. Compared to "upspeak', I'll take it any day. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority, but I'd be happy if the citizens of these united all adapted the "neutral" (media speak?) tone. I'm all for varied looks, music, dress, food, etc., but I really don't want to hear anyone's dialect or regionalisms. Yes, I know that's my quirk and therefore my problem; just saying.

Hahaa. Why not just make us all speak like robots?

Vocal fry doesn't bother me...I never noticed it until the hate for it got a lot of trendy media attention this year. But this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kV4k5J1wsE)girl really dips into it hard core. At some points she just sounds like a straight up croaking frog.

[SerafinaPekala]

While on the subject of speech affectations, the constant use of "So ..." preceding every sentence is a little weird. Also, ppl who dont organize their thoughts before speaking and use "Uh, uh, uh .." to fill in the gaps until they can come up with something.

[Inner Stickler]

Meh. People who rid their casual speech of discourse markers are almost always regarded as less trustworthy by listeners and comprehension goes down as well.

[Colophon]

Three pages and no explanation of why it's called "fry", though. What does fry in any sense (cooking in fat, baby fish...?) have to do with this croaky sound?

[Inner Stickler]

I think it's an idea that you're frying your vocal cords and they hiss and pop like bacon in a hot skillet. Beats me.

[wolfman]

It never ceases to amaze me how completely oblivious to vocal mannerisms I am. I am generally fairly observant and detailed about most things , but all these things take me a huge effort of concentration to detect what is being referred to. The Bush link above, and the defenestration chick I could eventually hear, but It would never ever occur to me organically that there is anything noticeable there.

Maybe it is a consequence of Growing up around Colorado, where everybody is from somewhere else, and there is no "normal" speech I ever had a concept of. Or maybe its just something my toddler brain just decided to ignore.

Accents amaze me as well, there are maybe 15 accents to English language for me in the whole world. I just have no natural process running to try to detect anything but the most obvious vocal cues. ETA actually that is not true. My brain does search for hidden cues, but for like cues they are lying, cues they are nervous etc, just not the vocal details of the sound in question.

[TonySinclair]

Yes. A LOT of women reporters pitch their voice as low as they can, evidently because they think it makes them sound more serious. It's annoying enough when they stay within their natural limits, and I can't stand it when they go beyond them, and start growling. I've pretty much stopped listening to Amy Goodman for exactly that reason.


Hah! I sneer at the puny examples posted thus far, so I'll show you what I was talking about with Amy Goodman. This was not cherry-picked; it was the top of the list of her reporting (second overall, after a video of her being arrested for something) when I Googled youtube amy goodman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7au7rMNY19I

[Son of a Rich]

Can males do vocal fry? "Dr Phil", the TV quack, always sounds like he's straining to pinch a loaf.

[Inner Stickler]

All the time. It's a staple of certain types of singing and any baritone pretending at being a bass is going to fry those low notes.

[Nzinga, Seated]

Hah! I sneer at the puny examples posted thus far, so I'll show you what I was talking about with Amy Goodman. This was not cherry-picked; it was the top of the list of her reporting (second overall, after a video of her being arrested for something) when I Googled youtube amy goodman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7au7rMNY19I

I just want to force feed her soothing substances. Ice cream, olive oil, cooling peppermint tea.

[WOOKINPANUB]

Hah! I sneer at the puny examples posted thus far, so I'll show you what I was talking about with Amy Goodman. This was not cherry-picked; it was the top of the list of her reporting (second overall, after a video of her being arrested for something) when I Googled youtube amy goodman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7au7rMNY19I

Wow, she is really unpleasant to listen to. I'd definitely find her even more annoying if I was just hearing her, but looking at her my first thought is to attribute her voice to age and possibly smoking. Either way, not a radio friendly voice.

[zweisamkeit]

I've been reading random posts about vocal fry since around when this thread started. Too bad it took months for links to non-exaggerated vocal fry examples to be offered (the NPR segments). ;)

I gotta say that it boggles my mind that it bothers people. It sounds like a perfectly normal way of speaking. Now, if people went around talking like the super-exaggerated example (exaggerate the fryx10,000 and add in Valley Girl inflection AND up talk AND super long pauses AND...), sure, that'd be irritating.

But even the "omgicantstandhowthisreportertalksLISTEN!" sound completely inoffensive to me.

[WOOKINPANUB]

I've been reading random posts about vocal fry since around when this thread started. Too bad it took months for links to non-exaggerated vocal fry examples to be offered (the NPR segments). ;)

I gotta say that it boggles my mind that it bothers people. It sounds like a perfectly normal way of speaking.

It took me awhile to understand exactly what was meant also, but now that I know,

[SlackerInc]

Bob Garfield's podcast on his hatred for vocal fry (but with a guest offering linguistic defenses of it) has touched off an uproar at Slate, with over a thousand comments so far:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/01/07/vocal_fry_and_valley_girls_why_old_men_find_young_women_s_voices_so_annoying.html

I will be curious to see whether it does become just a normal speech pattern as these girls and young women become middle aged; or whether it will be an affectation they drop. Will those of us who find it annoying just be increasingly marginalised and drop off? Does it in fact hurt one's vocal cords, as this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsE5mysfZsY) claims? If true, that would provide an objective reason to oppose it, rather than just subjective irritation with how it sounds.

I also am interested in what the underlying motive is (or at least was, originally). I was surprised to hear it being associated with sophistication as it sounds unsophisticated to me. But looking at examples from this thread, I can see how it might feel sophisticated compared to just being giggly and high pitched, I suppose. I always took it as a way of defensively inoculating onesself (as adolescents are wont to do) from being mocked for too much earnestness. Vocal fry can sound (or at least, again, this was perhaps the original motivation before it became so ubiquitous) aloof, disinterested, a signal that "you can't tear down what I'm saying because I'm not really committed to it anyway and I'm vaguely bored".

[Cat Whisperer]

I think the reason it is becoming so ubiquitous is that it's frigging contagious! When people talk like that around you, it becomes difficult not to emulate them.

[Acsenray]

I also am interested in what the underlying motive is (or at least was, originally). I was surprised to hear it being associated with sophistication as it sounds unsophisticated to me.

It is supposed to sound cynical and world-weary. The voice of someone who has seen it all and isn't impressed.

[RickJay]

I really don't get the hatred for a little quirk of dialect that's barely noticeable. (In the case of Amy Goodman, I don't think it's an affectation; it sounds like it's just her voice, quite possibly helped along the way by a smoking habit.) It will come and go, as such things do. As speech fads go it's not one tenth as noticeable and irritating as the obsession with the word "basically" that took off like a rocket about 20 years ago.

[AuntiePam]

I also am interested in what the underlying motive is (or at least was, originally). I was surprised to hear it being associated with sophistication as it sounds unsophisticated to me. But looking at examples from this thread, I can see how it might feel sophisticated compared to just being giggly and high pitched, I suppose. I always took it as a way of defensively inoculating onesself (as adolescents are wont to do) from being mocked for too much earnestness. Vocal fry can sound (or at least, again, this was perhaps the original motivation before it became so ubiquitous) aloof, disinterested, a signal that "you can't tear down what I'm saying because I'm not really committed to it anyway and I'm vaguely bored".

I've been watching for examples of vocal fry since this thread popped up. Finally saw it on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (don't judge me).

A wronged wife (Brandi Granville) was confronting one of her ex-husband's mistresses, Scheana somebody, a waitress. Scheana's tone of voice changed to the vocal fry when she was no longer in the hot seat.

She started by apologizing to Brandi, tearfully. When Brandi refused to let her off the hook, Scheana got defensive and her voice got steadily lower. She was full on frying when she told Brandi that Brandi's friends knew about the cheating. Defense to offense, from "I'm so sorry" to "It wasn't my fault and your friends aren't really your friends".

Scheana had seen that she was indeed off the hook, because she'd gotten Brandi to focus on the role her friends played in the affair. So in this case, your "not really committed and vaguely bored" is a good description of a situation where someone fried.

I looked for a clip but can't find one.