The .22 Rimfire thread

[MacTech]

Over in IMHO, Anaamika started a thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=642421) requesting help from firearms owners, yes, fellow gun-people, we should rejoice, as 'Mika is now one of *us* :)

...one of us....one of us... ;)

anyway, as she's an owner of a new Marlin 795 semiauto .22, i figured it'd be fun to have a thread where we could discuss that wonderful little cartridge and the guns that eat it, the humble .22 caliber rimfire.....

I have a small, but functional collection of firearms, the collection was a bit bigger about a year ago, but I've slowly been consolidating and simplifying for various unimportant reasons, I've now gotten it to the point where I have no more "frivolous" range-toys, mainly because I'm a minimalist at heart, I've trimmed down my caliber footprint to .22 rimfire (Short, Long Rifle, and Magnum), 12-gauge, 20 gauge (for training new shotgunners, 20 is a little softer shooting) .30-30, and .45 ACP, and i handload (reload) for 20 gauge, .30-30 and .45 ACP.

Out of those guns, the ones that see the most trigger time are my passel (bundle, stable, flock, what is the term for a bunch of .22 firearms anyway ;) ) of .22 caliber guns.

There are many reasons, .22 ammo is dirt cheap (around $20 for a "brick" of 500 or a bulkpack box of 525-550), has very little noise, zero recoil, and practice with a .22 directly translates over to the bigger guns, especially when the .22 and centerfire rifle are the same action design (Marlin 336 .30-30 and Marlin Model 39A lever actions, for example), but the biggest reason, .22's are just plain FUN!

Also, since I have a 25 yard outdoor backyard range, and our neighbors aren't too close by, I can simply grab one of my .22's and plink away at my spinner targets (and I'm thinking of getting a .22 caliber dueling tree target as well) any time I want, and because I'm a considerate neighbor, I tend to use ultra-quiet rounds like CCI's CB series and Remington's CBees, out of any of my rifles, the CCI CB's are dead silent, all you hear is the click of the firing pin and the THWACK, or PING! of the bullet hitting the target, the CBees are a tad louder out of my Marlin .22's, but out of my CZ-452 Ultra Lux, the CBees are practically silent as well

If I want to go longer than 25 yards, or shoot my bigger stuff, I have to go to my local gun range, about 10-15 minutes down the road, so for sheer backyard convenience, the .22's win by default.

It also allows me to share the fun of backyard plinking with my nephew, 9 years old, and a dead-eye shot already, his absolute favorite .22 of my collection? my Marlin Model 39A lever, closely followed by my CZ-452 Ultralux, he's also amazingly safety conscious, any time he has his hands on the gun, the muzzle is safely pointed downrange, and he always puts the safety on whenever he has a pause in his shooting, it's automatic with him, I made sure he understands the importance of gun safety, and he has taken it fully to heart 100%

anyway, back on topic...

On my backyard range, I have a couple spinner targets set up, a foam archery block to which I thumbtack paper targets, and I use tennis balls as kinetic "bounce around" moving targets, and since my preferred Remington CBees are such low powered, they completely disintegrate when hitting a spinner plate, and the tennis ball catches the bullet inside it's hollow cavity, the tennis balls are retired after a good dozen or more shots, so my backstop is overkill, but I'd rather have too much backstop rather than not enough.

even in a worst case scenario, the CB's and CBees are pretty much out of usable energy beyond 100 yards, and at that distance, you're lobbing them more like a grenade or a mortar shell anyway, these things have a massive "rainbow" trajectory, heck, if the light is right in the afternoon, and I'm shooting my CZ at a paper plate target, I can actually see the bullet fly towards the target in the scope...

needless to say, I burn through a *lot* of .22 ammo, even without Logan helping me out ;)

as far as recommendations to new shooters go, here's a few that have served me well

1; your first .22 rifle should be some form of manual-action rifle, be it a break-barrel single shot like the H&R/New England Firearms single shots, a bolt action (my personal recommendation as a great starting point), a lever action (expensive, but oh so worth it, lever .22's are just plain *cool*, and they have that unmistakable mystique and aura of the old "cowboy days" or the rare, but very fun slide (pump) action.

The reason for going with a manual-action gun as opposed to a semi? well?

First, it teaches you shot conservation, make every shot count, with a semiauto, there's always the temptation to do a "Mag-Dump" (pull the trigger as fast as possible to empty the mag as quickly as possible, basically "rapid firing" the gun, and when you do that, accuracy invariably suffers (your target looks like you were shooting it with a shotgun).

secondly, it can feed a wider variety of specialty cartridges (.22 Short, Long, and Long Rifle, and power levels from airgun-level ultraquiets to the hottest, fastest hypervelocity cartridges, semiautos have a much narrower range of cartridges that will work in them, sure, I could shoot a Remington CBee ultraquiet in Mika's Marlin 795, and it would fire and the bullet would leave the barrel, but the cartridge would not have enough power to cycle the bolt and eject the empty shell, you'd have to work the bolt manually after each shot, also, most semiauto manufacturers

Marlin and Ruger especially, caution you to not use the hot-loaded "Hyper" velocity cartridges in their semiautos as the ejection forces are too hard on the internal components, and can prematurely wear or break the internals (theoretically), a bolt, lever, pump, or single shot gun won't care if you're shooting ultraquiets, standards, or even hypers, as the bolt is locked until you open it to eject the spent shell and cycle a new one in

Thirdly, and 'Mika can speak from experience here, semiautos can be very fussy and prone to jamming, misfeeding and general unreliable operation for any number of reasons, a bad magazine, bad ammo, or just the gun being a fussy little prima-donna and not liking the ammo you're feeding it, yes, .22's can be fussy, and it's not limited to different models within the manufacturer's line, Mika's 795 may happen to like, let's say, CCI Blazers (speaking theoretically here) but it's entirely possible the gun built before hers and after hers may hate them, and they may like Remington Golden Bulets and hate CCI Blazers, or one may only like the really expensive stuff like Eley Match Target, each gun has it's own "personality" and part of the fun is finding out what it likes to eat

To elaborate on that last point, whenever you get a new (or used, just new-to-you) gun, don't blindly buy the biggest, cheapest box of ammo you can find, what happens if your gun *HATES* it?, no, buy a few different 50 or 100-round boxes of a bunch of different ammo types, brands and designs, and find out what your gun likes, you'll find it may hate one type but love another, or be completely unfussy, or only want the expensive stuff.

Once you find what your gun likes, stock up on it, ammo is not perishable, and doesn't go bad sitting unused for months/years/decades at a time, plus, ammo prices are constantly in an upward spiral, that brick of ammo you passed on for $20 today probably sold for $15 a few years ago, and may sell for $22-25+ a few days/weeks/months from now, heck, I remember when I was growing up as a kid when I could get a 500 round brick of Federal American Eagle (they come in 400 round bricks now) for $9.95, that 400 round brick now is around $22-24.00 depending on where I look.....

Fourthly, you *WILL* end up with more than one .22 firearm, it's inevitable, Resistance is Futile.... you already have a nice lightweight, totable plinker*, but you don't have a nice bolt action with a scope, or a revolver, or a semiauto handgun, how about a Marlin Papoose, a 795 that has a removable barrel and a neat little storage case to fit it all into, perfect for backpacking, hiking, and camping in the wilderness, or how about the legendary Marlin Model 39A (look for a good condition, clean used one made before they put the safety on, the old ones were built better) the 39A has been in production for more than 100 years and is the oldest continually produced rifle in America, it's a piece of americana and a piece of history, and it was Annie Oakley's favorite gun....

heck, I have four really nice .22's that I will never sell, and I still have to fight off my "Wantanothergun-itis"

Fifthly, when you *do* finally succumb to the siren call of another .22 (it *WILL* happen, I guarantee it, it's only a matter of time, it's a *when* not an "if"), don't be afraid to look at used guns, most used guns have been well cared for by caring owners, many of the used guns you see on the market right now have probably been sold by people needing to pay bills or put food on the table, or generally keep the family finances above board, due to the crappy economy, and the guns that *haven't* been cared for, well, those will be obvious, banged up stocks, rust, gummy actions, missing parts, anything that looks physically abused, avoid those unless you really want a tinkering project, stay with a good condition used gun and the risks are minimal

Sixthly, don't fall for the mindset that a .22 is just a kids/starter/cheap throwaway gun, as I said at the beginning of the thread, I have a decent amount of "better" guns in bigger, "manlier" calibers, but I spend far more trigger time on my .22's i easily put 5,000+ rounds a year through these guns, and I'm not shooting every day, I probably have put about 50-60 rounds through my .30-30, and a couple hundred through the 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, I find the .22's far more pleasant to shoot, so I shoot them more

That said, since it's going to probably be the caliber you shoot the most, why not spend the money and get a *nice* .22, Mika, the next time you're in the gun shop, pick up a Marlin bolt action .22, a Savage bolt action .22 and work the actions, shoulder the gun, feel the balance, see how they feel to you, then, if the shop carries them, do the same to a Marlin Model 39A Lever action and/or any CZ-452 or 455 bolt action, you'll notice a definite difference in the higher-quality gun

Another thing to think about, another advantage of a "nicer" (more expensive than the 795) gun is that it holds it's value better, if, Og forbid, for some reason you had to sell the 795 and you were selling it back to the gun shop, you'd be lucky to get more than $50-$75 for it, not that the 795 isn't good, it is, an exceptionally good gun, but it is also a mass-produced, bare bones, entry level gun, if for some horrible reason, I had to sell either my Marlin 39A or my CZ 452, I could probably get around $400 each for them from a gun shop, and considering I bought the Marlin 39A used for around $475 (actually I traded a few guns towards it, total out of pocket was closer to $30 ;) ) I wouldn't take too much of a loss

Finally, when it does come time for your next .22 (remember, Resistance is Futile ;) ) take your time, shoulder a bunch of guns, when you find "The One", you'll know it, it'll feel natural, balanced, it'll just feel *right*

Sorry to be so long and rambly, fellow .22 fans, post away :)




*the 795 is a great under-rated gun, those things shoot *far* more accurately then they have any right to at that price point, the 795 is truly a real sleeper of a deal

[MacTech]

Here's an interesiting vid on how CCI makes their rimfire ammo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvK9QlQtrKI&list=FLEUvpTG2rTB-PQvWpmAp3hw&index=14&feature=plpp_video)

[River Hippie]

Agree with everything in the op! I have 2 Marlin 39As, a 10/22 and a Ruger Mark I bull barrel. I love the CCI CB Shorts. The 39A holds about 20 of them and they are whisper quiet yet zippy enough to ventilate steel cans in a satisfying fashion.

[Battle Pope]

Good topic.

I've got an old Geco single shot bolt-action that belonged to my father and which he got from his uncle so it would have to be 1920's vintage. My dad made his own stock from an old fence post when he was a kid on their farm and put much better sights on it. Still an amazingly accurate little rifle. A few years ago we had to put a new firing pin into it as the old one had worn down so much it was no longer firing reliably :)

When I was a teen I had a Marlin 995 semi auto which I put a lot of rounds through but had to get rid of a few years back when the laws in Australia changed.

To replace that I got a Brno/CZ Model 5 topped off with a 4x32 scope which is a fine all-round target/plinker/rabbit rifle.

[yoyodyne]

I just got a Savage Mk II FV-SR (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIFVSR). Put a 2.5-10x scope on it and get around 1/2" groups at 50 yards. It has a threaded barrel and I'm thinking about getting a supressor for it.

[Clockwork Jackal]

Which do you think would be most useful in a Zombie Apocalypse?

Just curious. :)

[Chefguy]

I have a J.C. Higgins bolt action, tube feed .22 (I think they were made by Hi-Standard?). I burned through a boatload of ammo when I was a kid, but it probably hasn't been fired in over 40 years. I also have a Stevens .22/.410 single shot over/under. It also hasn't been fired in over 40 years, but I at least finally got the rear sight replaced a few years ago. I learned to shoot on a .22 bolt action Remington that took a five shot clip. It was quite possibly the most accurate rifle I ever fired. I used to have a Hi-Standard .22 auto pistol that had interchangeable barrels that were changed out by loosening a knurled nut. I bought that back in about 1970, and understand it's worth a bit more than I paid for it at the time. Last time I saw it, it was in a box in my former mother-in-law's house, and I'm unlikely to ever see it again.

[yoyodyne]

Which do you think would be most useful in a Zombie Apocalypse?In a .22 rimfire, probably one of these (http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2). ;)

[Scumpup]

Everybody who enjoys shooting a. 22 needs a Beretta 21A. I lost an early one in a divorce. I believe I'll go out and buy an inox example this week.

[Escantell]

i have a browning br-22 lever action... at least i did have one, until i got it confiscated for shooting my dad's favorite cat...

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Which do you think would be most useful in a Zombie Apocalypse?

Just curious. :)

:smack: (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=628279)

If you're looking for a .22 handgun, go with a Ruger Mark (I have a Mark III) or a Browning Buckmark. The rest are of dubious quality and reliability, in my experience. For instance, here is a photograph of a Walther P22 slide, and why it should not be trusted (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XCkTSf0swcQ/ST8WQvoCBFI/AAAAAAAAEtQ/EuNPOEZA5G0/s1600/brokenWALTHERslide732.jpg). The Sig Mosquito has a reputation for being a jam-o-matic. I acknowledge that experiences vary, but when the two industry standards are available at a good price it makes little sense to go elsewhere. Well-engineered steel versus zinc of dubious durability makes it an easy recommendation.

[Scumpup]

Which do you think would be most useful in a Zombie Apocalypse?

Just curious. :)

:smack: (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=628279)

If you're looking for a .22 handgun, go with a Ruger Mark (I have a Mark III) or a Browning Buckmark. The rest are of dubious quality and reliability, in my experience. For instance, here is a photograph of a Walther P22 slide, and why it should not be trusted (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XCkTSf0swcQ/ST8WQvoCBFI/AAAAAAAAEtQ/EuNPOEZA5G0/s1600/brokenWALTHERslide732.jpg). The Sig Mosquito has a reputation for being a jam-o-matic. I acknowledge that experiences vary, but when the two industry standards are available at a good price it makes little sense to go elsewhere. Well-engineered steel versus zinc of dubious durability makes it an easy recommendation.

What Doors said.

[GaryM]

About half of my collection are .22 rim fires. Fun and cheap to shoot. I'm also fortunate enough to be able to shoot in my yard. Always nice to be able to step outside and send some lead downrange.

Ruger 10/22s
Ruger Mk IIs and IIIs
Walthers
High Standard
S&W Revolvers

A good time.

[ducati]

I've slowly been consolidating and simplifying for various unimportant reasons, I've now gotten it to the point where I have no more "frivolous" range-toys,

Pffft. You're not one of us. ;)

You are correct, however - a .22 is the place to start. I got my first .22 at age 12 or so from my dad, who got it from his dad. It was a bolt-action Iver-Johnson Model 2X (http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9176/10280399_1.jpg) from about 1930, and I still have it. Nothing better than being 14 and grabbing your 22, a box of shells, and heading out back in the woods to plink the afternoon away.

A problem I have seen for years though, is parents giving their kids an adult rifle way too soon. I know I was eager for my son and daughter to learn to shoot, but I just cringe every time I see some guy at the range hand a full-sized .22 to some 7 or 8 year old who can hardly hold it up. I promised myself I would never do that, and I didn't. The answer is simple, but not enough people think about it: Kid-sized rifles.

It's not rocket science - it's common sense. I take my son's first .22 - a Henry Mini-Bolt (http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-minibolt.cfm)- to the range every time I go, and end up loaning it to 3 or 4 dads a day! It's 30 inches long, and only 3 lbs instead of 7.5 lbs for a Ruger 10/22. This is the gun every kid should step up to after they master safety and handling with their BB gun. Either that, or the Chipmunk (http://www.crickett.com/product_info.php?products_id=367&osCsid=dqec8k8h8gr4fi6iicgid43k57)or Papoose (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/selfloading/70pss.asp), although they may not call it that anymore.
My babies (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture6028.jpg)about 6 years ago.

Did someone say Ruger 10/22? Every gun owner I know has at least one. I have 3 currently, and love them all. One is stainless (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture325.jpg)in a Butler creek folding stock, another in a regular synthetic (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture3532.jpg)stock with bipod, and an SBR in a BC folder like this one (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/selfloading/70pss.asp).

When you just don't feel like loading 10 or 25 round mags anymore, you need a Calico (http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2)!
I have 50 and 100 round mags for mine! Most folks think they've never seen one and gather 'round at the range, but I bet you've seen one (http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/2/2f/Spaceballs_6.jpg/500px-Spaceballs_6.jpg)and just don't remember it! Yes, Operation Vacu-Suck was spoiled by the good guys (http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/5/57/Spaceballs_2.jpg/800px-Spaceballs_2.jpg) with Calico .22s!

Now, if you're the camping and paddling type, you'll need a compact .22 that floats.
Several companies have made the AR-7 (http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm) through the years, but Henry makes them now. Mine is silver (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture327.jpg).

I have more (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture3035.jpg)rifles (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture3524.jpg), but I'll let some other kids fill in any gaps with their .22s.

Handguns? You bet. And, like my idea on lightweight rifles for kids to learn with, so it goes with a revolver. My Smith & Wesson 317 Kit gun (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765497_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) is super light - only about 12 oz - and shoots 8 rounds of whatever you want to put in it. To start beginners off, we'll use some CB shorts that are very quiet and move up from there. From bigger rounds to bigger guns (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture3542.jpg), it all starts with the 317 in .22.

Another favorite to start folks off with is my Ruger 22/45 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/toys/Picture38346.jpg). Like most of my toys (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture31706.jpg), it's threaded for a suppressor so we can shoot and talk, and not have big scary bangs to put anyone off. When I unpack (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/Picture47965.jpg)it at the range, someone invariably asks if I'm an assassin. I just say yes.

I have more .22 handguns as well, but I've gone on long enough.
What do you kids have?

[ducati]

Which do you think would be most useful in a Zombie Apocalypse?

Just curious. :)

In .22? American 180 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuuU21cCyc), baby!

[yoyodyne]

:smack: (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=628279)

If you're looking for a .22 handgun, go with a Ruger Mark (I have a Mark III) or a Browning Buckmark. The rest are of dubious quality and reliability, in my experience. For instance, here is a photograph of a Walther P22 slide, and why it should not be trusted (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XCkTSf0swcQ/ST8WQvoCBFI/AAAAAAAAEtQ/EuNPOEZA5G0/s1600/brokenWALTHERslide732.jpg). The Sig Mosquito has a reputation for being a jam-o-matic. I acknowledge that experiences vary, but when the two industry standards are available at a good price it makes little sense to go elsewhere. Well-engineered steel versus zinc of dubious durability makes it an easy recommendation.
Neither dubious nor unreliable (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764927_-1_757769_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) :)

[ducati]

Neither dubious nor unreliable (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764927_-1_757769_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) :)

Or affordable! :p

[Johnny L.A.]

No time to read the thread right now, so I'll list mine:

Ruger Mk.II (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/RugerMkIIIvory2.jpg)
Henry AR-7 (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/AR-7-together.jpg)
Stainless steel Ruger 10-22 w/22" barrel and blue Ruger 10-22 w/Manlicher stock (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/22s-1.jpg)
Ruger Single-Six (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Flickr_-_~Steve_Z~_-_Ruger_Single_Six.jpg), .22LR/.22 Magnum. Mine is the old three-screw model. (Note: This image and following ones are not my actual guns.)
Walther P22 (http://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/wal_p22_green.jpg), green, like this one
Sears-branded Marlin 101 .22S/.22L/.22LR (http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2007/46819675ea8.jpg) (Mine has a blonde stock.)
H&R 999 Sportsman (http://www.shearimagesf.com/pics/9991.JPG)
Savage semiautomatic that belonged to my grandfather. I've never used it, and don't know the model.
Winchester 9422 (http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/7633/9302646_1.jpg)
Marlin 39a (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/images/golden/zoom_39A.jpg)

I think that's all of the .22LRs I have.

[yoyodyne]

Or affordable! :pMaybe not after buying your collection!

[Scumpup]

I can't recommend zinc guns no matter who whored out their name on it. Zinc doesn't last. It is soft and it sacrificially corrodes. On the other hand, I regularly shoot steel .22's that are older than I am. I'm 50 fwiw.

[kopek]

I have a Mauser KKW single shot .22 and I love it. It will drill tacks at 50 yards and that's cool but the history of it (how the Germans used it to get around the treaty after WW I) just adds to the effect.

One I had and have regretted parting with ever after ---- a more "older youth" single shot called the Canuck <sic?> Safety Rifle. It had this odd thing I never saw anywhere else. It was a bolt action but when you closed the bolt, the rear part with the striker in it would raise up at roughly a 45 degree angle. To fire, you had to thumb it down almost like thumbing the hammer of a hammered gun and then pull the trigger. Some guy who collected youth models just HAD to have it and offered me 20 times what I paid for it and I was in college then and broke so ------------ and I would give him four times what he paid me if I could have it back.

[silenus]

In .22 I have a 10/22, a Buckmark (http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/2453059_browning_01-1?hei=380&wid=380) and a High Standard (http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/05/HSSupermatic-1.jpg) I inherited from my father. All of them get more action than any 5 of my other guns.

[FordTaurusSHO94]

I have a Savage Model 64 rifle and a Hi-Standard Double Nine revolver.

[GaryM]

One of my Walthers is a P22. Agreed that it's not a top quality pistol but I bought it because it's cheap and easy to add a suppressor. I've since adapted two of my Ruger MkIIs and my 10/22 to mount the unit, so the P22 doesn't get shot very much.

My favorite is a MkII with a Burris Fastfire II sight and a PacLite upper. Also has Volquartsen trigger and other parts. Very nice shooter with the supressor.

[ducati]

It was a bolt action but when you closed the bolt, the rear part with the striker in it would raise up at roughly a 45 degree angle. To fire, you had to thumb it down almost like thumbing the hammer of a hammered gun and then pull the trigger.

Safety bolts like that were common years ago. My Iver Johnson 2X is like that. I always thought it was the coolest thing.

They're both still around if you check gun auction sites.

[Anaamika]

Oh, my, this thread makes me so happy.

ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

Seriously, thanks guys, and I'm happy to feel a part of it. mactech tells the truth; I did have the jamming and misfire issues he mentions. I didn't mind, to be honest - as he says, the gun's got a personality and it's good to see problems just to get the hang of dealing with problems.

I'll be reading this thread for sure. :)

[MacTech]

To those people who put down the .22 as not a "real gun" or say "it's just a .22", tell them to read this thread (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503007&nt=2&page=1)

To sum up, the OP shot a frozen turkey wrapped in three layers of denim from 250 and 300 yards away, at 250 the bullet completely penetrated the turkey, went completely through it, and at 300 the bullet was barely stopped by the last layer of clothing on the back side of the bird…

The .22 is not a toy, treat it with the same respect as any other firearm

[longhair75]

I have the obligatory Ruger 10/22 in my gun safe. It is an older model from the days of the Walnut stock. I have a Ruger 22/45 target model that makes every range trip with me.

[MacTech]

… actually, make that two cotton t-shirts and a canvas jacket, but still…

.... The core of the turkey was still frozen during the autopsy, and the organ bag was still in place

[ducati]

I'll see your turkey and raise you a terrorist (http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/)... ;)

[carnivorousplant]

:smack: (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=628279)

If you're looking for a .22 handgun, go with a Ruger Mark (I have a Mark III)

I've problems with feed on a Ruger .22/45. Have you any advice?

[aceplace57]

I'm curious, how many people tear down their semi-auto .22 just to clean it? If you shoot one 50 round box is it ok to just run a wet patch down the barrel? I can't see a full tear down every, single time you fire the gun.

I recently bought a Ruger 22/45 Hunter. Its in the Mark III line. Rugers tear down video scares the crap out of me. They actually suggest a plastic hammer. There's all kinds of stories about people having trouble getting a Mark III back together and working.

[carnivorousplant]

I recently bought a Ruger 22/45 Hunter. Its in the Mark III line. Rugers tear down video scares the crap out of me. They actually suggest a plastic hammer. There's all kinds of stories about people having trouble getting a Mark III back together and working.

I took mine to the gunsmith to put back together, and he said, "G-d, I hate it when they do that!" :)

[muldoonthief]

I'm curious, how many people tear down their semi-auto .22 just to clean it? If you shoot one 50 round box is it ok to just run a wet patch down the barrel? I can't see a full tear down every, single time you fire the gun.

I recently bought a Ruger 22/45 Hunter. Its in the Mark III line. Rugers tear down video scares the crap out of me. They actually suggest a plastic hammer. There's all kinds of stories about people having trouble getting it back together and working.

I have a Ruger Mark III, and I shoot in a league - so 30 rounds per match, once a week. I'll generally dissassemble & clean it every 5 or 6 matches. Yes, the teardown is a bitch, especially with the goddamn magazine "safety", so you have to keep putting the mag in & out just to move the hammer. But once you've done it a few times, it's pretty routine. The most important thing is to get the hammer strut lined up correctly at the end.

[Nars Glinley]

A few weeks ago, out of the blue, my wife (who has gotten hooked on the show "American Guns") says that she would like to start shooting. Huzzah!! I'm thinking probably a Ruger pistol but I've been out of the buying/selling game for quite a while. IIRC, the Mark II was new back when I worked at the gun store. Now, there's a Mark III and a 22/45. I don't know anything about them other than I don't care for bull barrels in general. Any recommendations? She has fairly small hands.

She likes shooting my Marlin Model 60 but the only handgun that I currently own is a S&W 5904 9mm. I'm afraid that if she shoots it, it'll scare her off.

TIA.

[aceplace57]

I bought my Ruger .22/45 Hunter based on several reviews.

This review ranked Ruger highest and mentioned the jamming problem. They fixed it by trying different grain loads. Based on the review, I bought CCI 22LR 40 grain Pistol Match. I Couldn't find the Remington 40 grain the review mentioned. So far the CCI is working ok in the 22/45

I've problems with feed on a Ruger .22/45. Have you any advice?

We chose the Ruger Mark III as our best .22 target pistol and wasted a full day diagnosing a horrible jamming problem, but it was quickly fixed by moving to a higher-grain bullet. We got the Remington golden bullet, 40 grain, and she performed flawlessly, a joyous pistol with remarkable accuracy at 25 yards.
http://www.travel-golf.org/best_22_caliber_target_pistols.htm

[carnivorousplant]

A heavier grain fixed jamming, but it will often miss feed the first round when you work the slide.

[Scumpup]

There is no corrosively primed. 22lr made in the US. I doubt anybody is making any anywhere in the world. There is no need to ever scrub the bore of a. 22. You'll want to keep the action and breechface clean, though. Spray cleaners like Gunscrubber are a godsend for people who hate dealing with Ruger take down quirks. Hose out the action, a little judicious use of a toothbrush, relube, and you're done.

[Scumpup]

Ruger isn't what they used to be on QC. I have an early mk II I bought myself all those years ago and an even older Standard Automatic my dad bought when I was a yonker. Both of them will fire and feed any. 22lr that will fit in the magazine.

[Johnny L.A.]

When I was experiencing FTF, I called Ruger. The tech said that the MK.II pistols have a ;target chamber' that is tighter than a 'sport chamber' used in other guns such as the 10/22. I was told I should use ammo that was manufactured to higher tolerances (specifically, not Remington).

[ducati]

I love my Ruger pistols. They've got a little learning curve, but it's not hard once you get the routine down.

Here's a video from Ruger on disassembly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGEtudNJua4&feature=related)and reassembly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeY9s2TYAOk&feature=related). The hammer is just to ensure a good tight fit between frame and barrel assembly.

If you want to avoid all the trouble, do 2 things to every Ruger pistol you have: put a Paclite (http://www.tacticalsol.com/tshome/tactical-solutions-pac-lite-barrel-upgrade-for-the-ruger-2245-and-mk-series-pistols)upper on it, and remove the mag safety disconnect. With the proper Mark II bushing in a Mark III or 22/45, the magazine flies out, and you don't have to do the mag dance during dis/assembly. Plus, there's no one in the background yelling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrskUzfpNBQ)...

My 22/45 with a Paclite upper, scope, and suppressor weighs less than just the original steel barrel itself.

I don't have any of my vids uploaded just now, but this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pThraW5Wyc&feature=related) has my same setup. I use quieter CCI subsonic 40grn hollowpoints, so mine's a lot quieter than this. Remington subs are loud as hell.

Stray cats & stereo thumping wiggers? not in my neighborhood!




Not really, but I could!:D

[longhair75]

When I was experiencing FTF, I called Ruger. The tech said that the MK.II pistols have a ;target chamber' that is tighter than a 'sport chamber' used in other guns such as the 10/22. I was told I should use ammo that was manufactured to higher tolerances (specifically, not Remington).

Many years ago I was shooting with my brother (two hitches in the U.S.M.C.) at his indoor range. We had rented a couple of Mark IIs. He had the FTF you describe, and tried to solve it by pushing the slide closed with his thumb. Unfortunately, he was also squeezing the trigger at the same time. He shot me in the leg.

I teased him about it for the rest of his life. The last time he called a was a little late answering. When I realized who it was I said: "I am really sorry, Jack. I had to limp to the phone."

[carnivorousplant]

If you want to avoid all the trouble, do 2 things to every Ruger pistol you have: put a Paclite (http://www.tacticalsol.com/tshome/tactical-solutions-pac-lite-barrel-upgrade-for-the-ruger-2245-and-mk-series-pistols)upper on it,





That's more than I paid for the pistol.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

The first time you take apart a Ruger Mark, particularly the Mark III with its magazine disconnect, it's intimidating as hell. Do it 5 times and it should take you no more than 2 minutes to take down and reassemble. It's mostly difficult because of the tight fit, and that loosens up considerably the more you do it. There are alternatives, however. You can buy a speed strip kit that takes all the hassle out of it, and for the Mark III owners you can very easily remove the magazine disconnect. It requires nothing more than a spacer, and there are kits for that as well if you want something other than a few garden variety washers.

The point is, don't be overly intimidated. It can be hard, but to hear Mark owners describe it it's the hardest thing ever and don't ever take the blasted thing apart or you'll never get it back together. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just like anything else it gets easier the more you do it, and frankly, it's kind of fun to do if only because it highlights the construction of a unique machine and how simple yet complex they can be.

[carnivorousplant]

The point is, don't be overly intimidated. It can be hard, but to hear Mark owners describe it it's the hardest thing ever and don't ever take the blasted thing apart or you'll never get it back together. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just like anything else it gets easier the more you do it, and frankly, it's kind of fun to do if only because it highlights the construction of a unique machine and how simple yet complex they can be.

Come over to my house.
I'll buy beer.

[GaryM]

I bought one of these (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20217/Product/RUGER-reg-MK-I-MK-II-TAKEDOWN-TOOL) about 8 years ago at a gun show. Very handy for Ruger pistols. The loop of wire pulls open the latch, the plastic end pushes out the barrel bolt pin, and the little wire helps remove the extractor.

[ducati]

That's more than I paid for the pistol.

Oh, come now. You simply have to shop around! I paid 240 for my 22/45 over a year ago. The Paclite upper was 279. Add a hundred bucks for a nice red dot scope, 500 for a suppressor, 200 to the BATF, another 80 for 4 more magazines, and you've got a nice quiet .22. And we haven't even visited the kids at Volquartsen (https://www.volquartsen.com/category/11-mkiii-conversions/6-mkiii)...


Or you could buy a car (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=299370911&dealer_id=58135687&car_year=1998&systime=&doors=&search_lang=en&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=used&distance=25&min_price=&rdm=1331262037129&drive=&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&sownerid=1328175&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2013&showZipError=n&certified=&engine=&dma=ATLANTA_SW&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&isFlashPlugin=true&transmission=&default_sort=&max_mileage=&color=&address=30326&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=1400&make=&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=21&standard=false).

Or a boat (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/2887896742.html).

We all have our priorities...:p

[carnivorousplant]

The Beretta 1932 (https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=2152&aid=30706&lid=8790428).
Put the safety on, pull the slide back and rap the barrel.
Barrel comes out of the ejector port.
Take the safety off, slide moves off the front of the frame, spring and ejector rod (?) fall out.
Some screws on the grips to get at the trigger.
Of course, I can't hit shit with it fifteen feet away, and I could get brain shots at zombies at 30' with the Ruger.
If it doesn't jam. :)

[carnivorousplant]

Oh, come now. You simply have to shop around! I paid 240 for my 22/45 over a year ago. The Paclite upper was 279. Add a hundred bucks for a nice red dot scope, 500 for a suppressor, 200 to the BATF, another 80 for 4 more magazines, and you've got a nice quiet .22.

The scope looks sweet...

[carnivorousplant]

I thought about buying a short barrel and pistol grip stock for the Mossberg, but if I have to shoot a burglar, I want the cops to find me with a duck gun that just happens to be loaded with #3 buck, not some sexy assault shotgun. :)

[Tangent]

I have a Remington Model 12 slide action .22 rifle (circa 1935) that belonged to my granddad. Like this one. (http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/8892683/88c7c13c83dc55caacde381b9176a872.jpg) Great little gun--I need to get out and shoot it more.

[Anaamika]

As I mentioned in the other thread, I already want another gun; and I want it to be MY gun. I've got my heart set on a bolt action. I'm thinking about the Savage Mk II or the Marlin 980.

Thoughts?

[engineer_comp_geek]

The Savage MKII's sometimes suffer from a problem where they don't like to reliably eject the spent cartridge. On the other hand, some people love them and never have a problem with them. I'm not sure what the problem is with them and what it takes to fix them if you do run into it, but it's worth researching.

The Savage accutrigger is better than the Marlin trigger. I've never shot the Marlin, but I know some folks complain about its trigger being a bit harsh.

Overall, though, I think both are fairly decent for the money. If you want something a bit better you might want to look into the CZ-455, but that's also going to require you to bump up your budget a bit.

[Crotalus]

I have a Ruger Mark III 512 that I really enjoy shooting.

[MacTech]

As I mentioned in the other thread, I already want another gun; and I want it to be MY gun. I've got my heart set on a bolt action. I'm thinking about the Savage Mk II or the Marlin 980.

Thoughts?

Marlin makes a great boltgun, triggers can tend to be a little rough, but as your only frame of reference is your 795, and that rifle isn't particularly known for a nice trigger feel, you may not notice much of a difference

If this Marlin has their new adjustable trigger with the safety tab in the center, it may be decent, I have no experience with the new Marlin trigger system

I've owned Marlin, Savage, and CZ guns, and IME, the Savage AccuTrigger has the best feel of the three stock triggers

The absolute best triggers I've experienced are a Savage with a Rifle Basix custom trigger, trigger pull was 9 ounces, and the gun was strictly a bench gun, using that gun in the field would be unsafe and irresponsible, you barely had to touch the trigger to fire, and a YoDave trigger shim equipped CZ-452 Trainer Special

In all honesty, if you could find a decent used CZ-452 (Trainer, Lux, FS, American, Ultra Lux) I think you'd be very happy, either way you can't lose

[Anaamika]

Somebody at work was just telling a scary gun story. How do people manage to do this shit? I didn't get the whole thing, just the gist, but apparently they were at a party, two guys were talking, one had a handgun. He took the handgun and pointed at the other guy....pointed it away. Pointed it back and somehow pulled the trigger. From like five feet away. Thankfully it hit him in the shoulder (as opposed to the head). Not so thankfully, of course, it went right through, doing massive damage on the way out.

How does this even happen? Not only does some crazy asshole get their hands on it, he plays with it like that, and no one around says "Hey, Joe, maybe you ought to put that down?" or better yet, takes it away from him.

Sigh. Anyway.

I have fired heavier guns before, but only once. So I don't have a complete dearth of experience in different kinds of trigger pulls; just very little. I'll do some research on the guns you mention, thank you very much!

[GaryM]

Can't fix stupid Anaamika.

[Anaamika]

Can't fix stupid Anaamika.

They almost did, with a Darwin award!

[GaryM]

I know from years of shooting experience that it's often difficult to call someone out about safety if it's not a blatant violation. Last week while we were shooting skeet one of the fellows who was waiting his turn had his auto loading shotgun over his shoulder with the barrel pointed toward some other shooters. I noticed that the bolt was closed rather than open and asked that he open to bolt so it was easy to see that it was unloaded. He said that it wasn't a big deal as it was unloaded and we shouldn't worry. I insisted that he open the bolt or leave the squad. He wasn't happy but complied. An uncomfortable situation for both of us, and why I shoot an over/under shotgun. Easy to see that it's safe if it's broken open.

[carnivorousplant]

He said that it wasn't a big deal as it was unloaded and we shouldn't worry.

Asshole. Idiot. Moron.

[ducati]

This is why I hate going to our public outdoor range. Every time I go, I have to confront someone swinging a gun here and there and give them a sarety lesson. People loading guns while the range is cold and people downrange fixing targets.

I once had the brain-less idiot next to me pick up his rifle and fire a shot with the range cold. Only one person was downrange - the man on the other side of my table, and he hit the deck. Of course I and others started yelling at the moron to put his gun down, and he did, but not really understanding our level of displeasure. No harm, no foul, right?

Another time, Grampa brought 12 or so grandson to the range. Pops wasn't really together, and completely un-involved. Just let junior play with the 9mm pistol as he saw fit. My son and daughter are amazingly safe and capable with guns. I trained them. Junior never had a safety talk, as was evident from his pointing the pistol at me and everything around us. I went over and had a talk with Pops and the boy, but it didn't stick. Second time, I removed them from the range.

I would be so pissed if some moron shoots me at the range while loading a gun with a finger on the trigger or something equally stupid. I love my sport, I love introducing and training newcomers, but I hate newbies that come from the gun store and just start shooting.

I want so badly to have a few acres in the country to shoot by myself, with no one else around.
You smug bastards in Idaho and Montana - don't send me pictures of the wilderness or range that is your back yard where you sit on the deck in your undies and pop crows and prarie dogs while sipping an RC cola and downing Moon Pies .:mad:

[GaryM]

I'm an NRA certified RO and at my local private club we're issued flags that we are supposed to post when we are present so that if there are any questions it would be obvious that a RO was present.

There was a case a year or so where two ROs were on the firing line when an incident occurred. The two ROs had their club certification suspended when the investigation demonstrated that they'd not taken any action to prevent the incident.

We also have video recording on all the ranges so that if an incident occurs the video can be reviewed to determine what happened and who was involved. Entry onto the property is key card controlled and all visitors must be logged in by the member they are with.

We take safety seriously.

[Gatopescado]

I've fired thousands of rounds of Federal .22 ammo (550 rounds for about $20!) and can only recall 2 or 3 mis-fires. Every time I find a mis-fired round on the ground in the many shooting areas around where I live, it turns out to be a Remington. :rolleyes:

[RalfCoder]

Ah, .22 rimfires. I remember back in the day when my buddy Ron and I were teenagers. We would take our .22s and head out to the local dump and shoot rats. This place was on the backside of beyond in northern Michigan, and there was no attendant there. If someone showed up to drop off stuff, we would just stand by on the side until they were done and had left, and then resume our job of reducing the local population.

I have a Taico Squires Bingham bolt-action .22 that I bought from Ron about 30 years ago. It was made in the Philippines, and has a reputation as a low-end, inexpensive rifle. Ron was home on leave from the Air Force, and got it 2nd hand from someone else, who probably brought it home from overseas. I put a scope on it that I came up with somewhere, and ended up with a decent little rifle that is cheap to shoot and loads of fun. The last time out (last fall), I took it to the range with a friend who brought his .380 pistol, along with his wife and son. The wife liked shooting the rifle better, and I think she could be talked into being a recreational shooter with little trouble.

I have 2 problems with this rifle: first, I'm left-handed, and that bolt action is a pain to operate. Basically, I have to reach up over the scope to operate the bolt. It's 2nd nature after all of these years, and if I ever came up with a left-handed bolt action rifle, I wouldn't know what to do. Probably try shooting it right-handed, just so it would feel "right" reaching for the bolt. :D

Second, I have only one 6-shot clip for it, and I haven't found any others. It would be nice to have 3-4 clips loaded up and ready, and be able to swap them out and keep shooting until it's time to go downrange and check the target. But it's not a huge deal, just an annoyance.

I have considered getting something else for sports shooting. I saw a recommendation for a Ruger .22 pistol here, and would consider that. Or maybe a semi-auto rifle, so I don't have to deal with reaching around to get to the bolt, and so I can get a couple of clips.

[Scumpup]

Reaching around is just common courtesy, wouldn't you agree?

[Nars Glinley]

A few weeks ago, out of the blue, my wife (who has gotten hooked on the show "American Guns") says that she would like to start shooting. Huzzah!! I'm thinking probably a Ruger pistol but I've been out of the buying/selling game for quite a while. IIRC, the Mark II was new back when I worked at the gun store. Now, there's a Mark III and a 22/45. I don't know anything about them other than I don't care for bull barrels in general. Any recommendations? She has fairly small hands.

She likes shooting my Marlin Model 60 but the only handgun that I currently own is a S&W 5904 9mm. I'm afraid that if she shoots it, it'll scare her off.

TIA.

Anybody?

[GaryM]

I think it would be a good idea to go to a good gun sales emporium and let her handle some .22 pistols and see what fits her hand well.

Some ranges rent pistols so folks can try different kinds, they may have a selection of .22s she can shoot.

Not a target pistol, but the Baretta 21A (http://www.berettausa.com/products/model-21-bobcat/) is not a bad little gun, and Taurus makes a copy in several colors. Trigger pull is rather long in DA, but you can always cock the hammer first and shoot it SA.

[MacTech]

You can't go wrong with a Ruger .22 handgun of any flavour

Single Six/Single Ten; Single action .22 revolver, the Six comes with two cylinders, .22 Long Rifle and .22 Magnum, the Ten has a 10 shot .22LR cylinder, the Single series are one of the few .22 revolvers that can safely be dry-fired with no damage to the cylinder, great for practice and training away from the range, if you're still afraid of damaging the cylinder with dry firing, just remove the cylinder completely and reinstall the base pin, and dry fire to your heart's content

the only *MINOR* drawback to the Single series is that the bore is sized for the .22 Mag bullet (.224) as opposed to .22LR (.223), *technically* the Six will be slightly more accurate with the Magnum rounds, in practical use, the difference is negligible

SP101 .22LR; 8 shot .22LR Double Action revolver built on the SP101 .38 Spl/.357 Mag revolver platform, the bore is properly sized for .22LR

"Mark" series semiauto, the Mark guns have a long, historic life, and are incredibly reliable...

Models in the Mark series;
Standard/Mark I; 9 shot magazine, no last-shot bolt hold open, not safe to dry-fire, it will peen the breech face, which will ruin the upper
Ruger
Mark II; 10 shot mag, last shot hold open, dry fire safe, arguably the best Mark series made, yes, even better than the Mark III...
Mark III; take a Mark II and add the following unwelcome and unwanted "Nannyware" features;
1; a "Chamber Loaded" indicator on the side of the receiver, adds more places for crud to collect, destroys the clean lines of the gun and is unnecessary as all guns should be treated like they're loaded anyway....
2; a Magazine Disconnect, the gun will not fire with the mag removed, it also ruins the trigger feel and makes the already complicated takedown for cleaning even *MORE* onerous, as you now have to insert and remove the mag multiple times when stripping and reassembling

Of the three Mark series guns, the best ones are the Mark II models, keep an eye put for a good, clean, well cared for used one, it's worth the premium over a brand new Mark III

[carnivorousplant]

You can't go wrong with a Ruger .22 handgun of any flavour



My Ruger .22/45 jams once on almost every damn magazine.
Oiling the cartrdiges helps.

[ducati]

Oiling the cartrdiges helps.

That may be exacerbating the problem. You're not exacerbating right now, are you?
Good. Let's look at that magazine. A clean mag is a happy mag, and any rounds you buy today are lubricated enough already. Use a good solvent or gun cleaner - see below - and clean those puppies up.

Second, the gun has to be clean. Oil attracts dirt & gunk in the gun, so make sure it's squeaky clean in there. Disassembly is necessary for a thorough cleaning, but if you've done that recently, find some G96 gun cleaner (http://www.g96.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=g96&Category_Code=Gun+Treatment). Great stuff, very effective, and you can just shoot it in the ejection port & blow it dry.

If this is happening with one mag only, examine the feed lips against a known good mag. If it's all your mags, I'd have someone - perhaps Ruger - look at it & see what's not lining up.

Also remember that many .22s are picky about ammo, even gun to gun of the same species. I never have a problem with CCI ammo of any flavor.

Otherwise send it to Ducati's Home For Unwanted Guns where it can be with others of its kind, and we will treat it well for the rest of its life, FREE! You can't beat that kind of help!

[carnivorousplant]

You're not exacerbating right now, are you?

You can be arrested for that here.


Otherwise send it to Ducati's Home For Unwanted Guns where it can be with others of its kind, and we will treat it well for the rest of its life, FREE! You can't beat that kind of help!

Gee, that's awfully nice of you. :)

[Nars Glinley]

Otherwise send it to Ducati's Home For Unwanted Guns where it can be with others of its kind, and we will treat it well for the rest of its life, FREE! You can't beat that kind of help!Gee, that's awfully nice of you. :)

You don't want to do that, I've heard bad things about the Ducati Home. Glinley's Firearms Rescue is a humane no-kill shelter where each of the firearms are oiled by 64 virgins after each use.

[Scumpup]

Try cleaning the chamber with a tight fitting patch and J&B non-embedding bore paste. Inspect your extractor and ejector. It would also help a lot if you can tell us whether the glitch is in feeding or extraction.

[carnivorousplant]

The last time was when Mrs. Plant chambered the first round. The lead was deformed, so I guess it is a feed problem.
Sometime it does it mid way through a magazine. Removing the mag and moving the spring up and down cures it. Again I think it is a feed problem. It happens with all three magazines.

[Scumpup]

If all three magazines give problem, and it is with more than one kind of ammo, I would consider using a very fine Arkansas or ceramic stone to ever so slightly bevel the chamber mouth. You aren't trying to throat it or anything like that. Just take the sharp edge off slightly. Go slowly, removing a teensy bit at a time and stop immediately when you get good function with your best feeding brand of ammo. I'd still give everything a thorough cleaning and inspection first, including all the mags.

[carnivorousplant]

It's damn dirty, we've only fired about 200 rounds.
The gunsmith in Little Rock, the old guy, isn't around anymore. The guy here in North LR, where I took it when I tried to take it apart makes the sign of the Cross at me when I walk in.

[ducati]

You don't want to do that, I've heard bad things about the Ducati Home. Glinley's Firearms Rescue is a humane no-kill shelter where each of the firearms are oiled by 64 virgins after each use.

I shall not stand for such libelous accusations.
The DHFUG is one of the most prestigious and professional institutions of its kind, providing a caring and nurturing environment for firearms of all actions, calibers, and finishes for almost 40 years. The director's penchant for stainless vs. blued materials is not racist mind you, but simply a desire for the more anti-corrosive properties that bluing cannot provide.

Furthermore, I have it on good authority that these "virgins" that the Glinley people speak of are actually just children working in questionable conditions on a tuna boat in international waters to avoid U.S. child labor laws, and the "oil" they use is the same they pack the tuna in. I also hear they use Wolf Russian ammo because it is, and I quote, "cheap". Appalling.

When considering the donation of an un-needed firearm, please consider the DHFUG.
We'll treat your gun like a family member. Not like the retirement homes you see investigated on 60 minutes. The good way.

[Nars Glinley]

Furthermore, I have it on good authority that these "virgins" that the Glinley people speak of are actually just children working in questionable conditions on a tuna boat in international waters to avoid U.S. child labor laws,

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

[wolf_meister]

Just thought I'd join this firearms discussion. As just about everyone knows, I am one of the more liberal posters at the SDMB but (at least in my case) I don't see why only the conservatives should have fun with firearms.

Yes, as is the case with everybody, my first rifle was a 22. (A Remington bolt action single shot). Yes, a single-shot rifle really makes you appreciate the value of that one shot. Currently, I own a Ruger 10/22.

MacTech did a very good job in summarizing the advantages of a .22 rifle as well as reminding everyone (posting #27) about the dangers of .22 caliber firearms. I wonder how many accidents (or fatalities) have occurred due to the expression "hey, it's only a 22."

[Chefguy]

Well, today I traded in my Mossberg 12 ga and my old Stevens 22/410 that my grandfather gave me, and bought a new Sig Sauer Mosquito, which has gotten good reviews. With the trade, it only came to about $140. Nice balance compared to the Ruger 40 cal. I was looking at, and the ammo is sure cheaper.

Since we don't have to worry about grizzlies here, the shotgun was just dead weight, and way too hefty to be aiming at humans. I haven't fired the over/under in probably 40 years, and I just can't get sentimental about guns. The Sig hold ten rounds in the mag; if that doesn't discourage somebody, then I'm out of luck. Now I need to find a range and run some ammo through it to make sure it's going to function if I ever need it.

That just leaves my old JC Higgins bolt action 22 to deal with. It hasn't been fired in about 45 years, and likely never will be again, unless I find somebody here who likes to target shoot.

[Scumpup]

Everybody who enjoys shooting a. 22 needs a Beretta 21A. I lost an early one in a divorce. I believe I'll go out and buy an inox example this week.

I finally got around to picking one up today. I opted for matte black over stainless. I dressed it up a little with some gold grip screws I happened to have on hand. They look pretty snazzy. Turns out I also still have a set of Beretta-made smooth hardwood grips from my ca. 1985 original and they even fit. They're scratched up and one is chipped, but I may refurbish and install them even though the checkered plastic originals are more practical.
The dealer had a magazine in stock, so I picked that up too. Now all I need is a trip to the range.

[ducati]

I love Bobcats!
Now, let's make it quiet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzcr0ZXv9OM)! I'm all about not bothering the neighbors, doncha know.

If you're not familiar with our world, this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOXmGNN3bI&feature=endscreen&NR=1)has a little review with a Thompson Machine Wasp on his...

[carnivorousplant]

If you're not familiar with our world, this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOXmGNN3bI&feature=endscreen&NR=1)has a little review with a Thompson Machine Wasp on his...

That's really weak coffee.
You can see through it.

[Scumpup]

I love Bobcats!
Now, let's make it quiet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzcr0ZXv9OM)! I'm all about not bothering the neighbors, doncha know.

If you're not familiar with our world, this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOXmGNN3bI&feature=endscreen&NR=1)has a little review with a Thompson Machine Wasp on his...

The 21A really is a great little gun. There's nothing else of the type that offers that much quality at that price point. A lot of folks who spent the same kind of money on one of Walther or SIG's cast zinc and plastic pieces of shit would have been far happier with the aluminum and steel Bobcat if a small DA .22 automatic is what they want. I smile every time I look at my new one. It reminds me of when the world and I were younger.

[Chefguy]

Why do you say the Sig is a piece of shit? Just curious, as I just bought a Mosquito, as noted above. After searching the net, I found good performance reviews of the piece.

[ducati]

I don't normally like to jump on people's choice of products - doing so generally makes folks defensive and unlikely to believe you or listen to reason.

That said, gun guys have known for years that the Mosquito has been nothing but trouble for many, many people. Mostly the materials and workmanship, but ammo feeding as well. Slides break, safeties fail, and more. Use the Google machine and search Sig Mo and the first thing that pops up is Sig mosquito problems. Very telling just by itself.

Sig-Sauer makes some of the finest pistols I've ever shot. I have several.
The Mosquito, however isn't actually made by Sig - it's made for them by Umarex, as is the Walther P22, another problematic .22 pistol.


Certainly there are satisfied Mosquito owners, but I've never met one.

Recently, my FIL bought a Diamondback .380. His research satisfied him, he liked the trigger pull, and I couldn't talk him out of it. He's been a gun guy for 40 years longer than me, so what can you do? After 3 returns to the factory for problems, he traded it for a Sig P-230 last week. The Sig shoots perfectly, even though it's heavy as hell for a .380!

YMMV.

[Scumpup]

Ducati covered everything I would have said.

[MacTech]

I just added a new family member to the rim fire collection yesterday…

A tiny little Beretta 950 Minx in .22 Short, 6+1 rounds, tip-up barrel, and even though it's tiny, it balances and points well for such a diminutive gun

It's a 1965 vintage, made in Italy, and is in 90% of new condition, and runs flawlessly

It'll be a range toy, plinking and walking around the farm gun, it simply disappears into the watch pocket of my jeans, you could never tell that I had a gun on me

I'm only going to pocket carry on my property, as I don't yet have a concealed carry license yet

[carnivorousplant]

Use the Google machine and search Sig Mo and the first thing that pops up is Sig mosquito problems.

Googling "Sig Mosquito" there are nothing but good things in the first page.
Just sayin'. I don't have a dog in this fight.

How much does the license for a suppressor cost?
I'd guess about a million bucks, and the cops would come dig up you back yard every month looking for bodies.

[Chefguy]

I don't normally like to jump on people's choice of products - doing so generally makes folks defensive and unlikely to believe you or listen to reason.

That said, gun guys have known for years that the Mosquito has been nothing but trouble for many, many people. Mostly the materials and workmanship, but ammo feeding as well. Slides break, safeties fail, and more. Use the Google machine and search Sig Mo and the first thing that pops up is Sig mosquito problems. Very telling just by itself.

Sig-Sauer makes some of the finest pistols I've ever shot. I have several.
The Mosquito, however isn't actually made by Sig - it's made for them by Umarex, as is the Walther P22, another problematic .22 pistol.


Certainly there are satisfied Mosquito owners, but I've never met one.

Recently, my FIL bought a Diamondback .380. His research satisfied him, he liked the trigger pull, and I couldn't talk him out of it. He's been a gun guy for 40 years longer than me, so what can you do? After 3 returns to the factory for problems, he traded it for a Sig P-230 last week. The Sig shoots perfectly, even though it's heavy as hell for a .380!

YMMV.

Well, crap. I'm stuck with it now, I guess, although it's likely I'll never fire it.

[carnivorousplant]

Well, crap. I'm stuck with it now, I guess, although it's likely I'll never fire it.

Send it to the Carnivorousplant Home For Unwanted pistols. :)

Yes, I stole that.

[ducati]

Don't get me started on those drunken bastards at the CHFUP.
The DHFUG is well-respected around these parts. They're who you want to deal with, although we do draw the line at Lorcin and Raven. You can send them to the CHFUP or the Glinley people.

You're never stuck with a gun. Somewhere, someone will want it. My earnest opinion is do some more research and decide on keep or trade. I would trade it for something more reliable and just call the loss you suffer - maybe a hundred bucks or less - a lesson on doing due diligence.

It's not an awful gun, but no one deserves to have the slide crack in just a few hundred rounds.

Just let us know what your mission/purpose is for a .22 pistol, and we'll all tell you how to spend your money.:D


How much does the license for a suppressor cost?
I'd guess about a million bucks, and the cops would come dig up you back yard every month looking for bodies.

I need to start an NFA AMA thread to address these things...

There is no "license" for NFA items: machine guns, suppressors, SBR (short barrelled rifle) and SBS (short barrelled shotgun)
There is a one-time transfer tax of $200 per item or condition.

So, your hit-man entry fees are as follows:
pistol or rifle: $250 & up
supressor: $250 & up
ATF tax: $200

Now remembering that Mama Ducati always said never get the cheapest doctor, lawyer, or condom you can, I'd add suppressor to the list. My AAC Element (http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=949)is King of The Hill in .22 rimfire suppressors. There are a couple of others who come close, maybe even better in some opinions. Expect to spend 350 - 450 on one.


My AR-50 (http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=50A1BNM&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=0406c9ff-539d-4b4c-ae1f-d045b91324c3) now wears a Cyclops (http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=486). Yeah, you can still hear it, but if you're downrange, you'll never pinpoint the source.


Now, if you decide to sell an NFA item, the buyer will have to pay another $200 tax to the ATF. He sells it - another 2 bills, ad infinitum.

Some folks think that when you own an NFA item, the ATF can come search your home anytime they want to "check compliance" or something silly like that. This is simply not true. If you are an FFL, the ATF can come look at inventory and paperwork during business hours with notice.

Here's a little more information (http://www.silencerco.com/?section=Support&page=FAQ#legal01)...

[carnivorousplant]

There is no "license" for NFA items: machine guns, suppressors, SBR (short barrelled rifle) and SBS (short barrelled shotgun)
There is a one-time transfer tax of $200 per item or condition.





Thanks for the info.
Much more money than I want to spend.
Sorry if I pissed you off.

[Chefguy]

You're never stuck with a gun. Somewhere, someone will want it. My earnest opinion is do some more research and decide on keep or trade. I would trade it for something more reliable and just call the loss you suffer - maybe a hundred bucks or less - a lesson on doing due diligence.

It's not an awful gun, but no one deserves to have the slide crack in just a few hundred rounds.

Just let us know what your mission/purpose is for a .22 pistol, and we'll all tell you how to spend your money.:D


The gun is purely a precautionary measure for when we go on an RV trip, and as a distant second, home protection. In Alaska, the 12 ga. made sense for bear protection. Down here, I'm more concerned about the human element and possibly small critters. I don't feel a canon is necessary to deter an intruder or somebody who is threatening. I doubt that I'll do any target shooting, as it just doesn't interest me much anymore.

To sum up: I'll never put several hundred rounds through it. In fact, I doubt I'll ever fire it unless my safety is being threatened. Surely, for this type of extremely limited prospective use, this gun is adequate? I would still appreciate a recommendation, just in case I change my mind and decide to take up target shooting again.

[jasg]

1937 Winchester model 69 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_69) with original scope.

Have owned it since 1960.

[Scuba_Ben]

Back in the mid-80s, at camp we shot .22 rimfire rifles (with the occasional centerfire). Over four summers I worked my way up the NRA accuracy awards to Sharpshooter, Bar III. That was the highest award I recall any camper ever earning while I went there.

[Scumpup]

The gun is purely a precautionary measure for when we go on an RV trip, and as a distant second, home protection. In Alaska, the 12 ga. made sense for bear protection. Down here, I'm more concerned about the human element and possibly small critters. I don't feel a canon is necessary to deter an intruder or somebody who is threatening. I doubt that I'll do any target shooting, as it just doesn't interest me much anymore.


That being the case, I think you might be better served by trading the Mosquito in for a .22 revolver. S&W and Taurus make some very nice ones. Better quality automatics than the Mosquito can be finicky about ammo and lubrication, and if you aren't going to fire it you'll have no idea whether it will actually work should you need it. A revolver is much more forgiving and, as long as the ammo has primer and powder in it, the gun should fire.

[ducati]

Thanks for the info.
Much more money than I want to spend.
Sorry if I pissed you off.

All tongue in cheek, my dear! Uncle Duc isn't mad.



Chefguy: Heavens, no. A .22 is for plinking, playing, shooting rats in the barn or dump, and introducing folks to a gun. Only as a last resort would I use one as my go-to self-defense weapon. Will it kill someone? You bet. Will it drop a intruder/rapist/attacker in their tracks before they can get to you with a club/knife/gun/fireplace poker? No.

If your main purpose is to stop a bad guy, you'll need something more substantial.
I'm not going down the 9mm/45 Path Of Contention for brevity's sake, though either one will suffice. You can research that debate somewhere else.
We don't want a level playing field. We don't want wounds that prove fatal 2 minutes or 2 hours from now while Chet* drives home. We want Hollywood foolish: flying backwards, knocking over cars kind of power.


No, for just having around the house and RV, I believe simplicity is best. A .357 revolver properly loaded (http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-125-gr-Critical-Defense/)will stop virtually anyone with 1 or 2 shots. I'm also liking the new .410/45 Colt revolvers that are out as well.

My wife has a Ruger GP-100 (http://www.rankarmor.com/Ruger_1.jpg)that she loves. The size and weight tame recoil tremendously, plus you can use .38 Special rounds in it to practice. .38 is cheaper, and has much less power and recoil. Shoot a few to get the feel of the gun, then drop in some .357 to see what happens.

The GP-100 is a bit large for some folks. If your wife/GF/teen/SO/petite roommate wants in on the party, that's fine. The Ruger SP-101 is smaller, lighter, and will still take down a linebacker on meth.
Taurus and Smith & Wesson make several even lighter revolvers in .357 that you will find more affordable. But really, who can put a price on your family's safety? Not me. Let's go nuts!

Taurus came out with a family of revolvers (http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=41&toggle=tr) a few years ago chambered in .410
Yep, that's the .410 shotgun round (http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/pdx1_410pack_shells-tfb.jpg)you've heard about.
They will also fire the .45 Colt round as well, which is equally deadly.

Smith & Wesson introduced their take on this recently, The Governor (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_769651_-1_757767_757751_image). I love it, and plan on getting one. .410 shotgun shells, .45 Colt, AND .45 ACP - you know - like a .45 Auto!
Train cheaply with the .45ACP, then load 2 of each and wait for bad guys to come along.

Quality firearms are not inexpensive, I know, but you don't have to sell a car or become a weekly sperm donor. Poke around pawn shops and gun shops for a nice used S&W 586 for about $350 or so, or look on Gunbroker.com (http://www.gunbroker.com/Revolvers/BI.aspx?Keywords=.357&Condition=3&Sort=4&PageSize=75). Take your time and you'll find a good deal.

Keep the Sig for shooting tin cans, or better yet, trade it for a Ruger Mk II or MkIII, or a S&W 317 and you'll have it forever, and leave it to the kids or grandkids. I have all 3 and I love them as well.

You got questions? Let us know.

[Scumpup]

Gonna have to differ with you on the .410 revolvers, Ducati. While the .45 Colt, in anything better than SASS loads, is no slouch for self defense, my experience with .410 handguns is pretty dismal. I didn't chronograph any loads, but shot loads weren't too much out of Red Ryder velocities judging by the lack of damage and bouncebacks when fired at wooden targets. .410 slugs weigh about 85 grains or so, IIRC. This puts them right around the same weight as you would see from a .380 acp bullet. The .380 is considered a minimal self-defense cartridge and I question whether a .410 could even match .380 velocity when fired from a revolver.
The .357, though, now there is a really versatile gun.

[Chefguy]

Alas, I own a Smith .357 model 28, a WWII military 1911A that my father carried, and an old Hi-Standard 22 auto. Unfortunately, all three are in a taped up box in my former mother-in-law's house, which is presently occupied by her son, who has some mental problems and won't allow anybody, including family, into the place. There they've sat for the last 25 years, beyond my grasp. :(

The gun is a deterrent. I don't want to kill anybody, just send them packing. Put enough rounds downrange and most people get the idea quickly. Sometimes just showing it is enough. If I wanted to seriously fuck somebody up, I'd have kept the 12 gauge and the 00 buckshot shells. I may look into a revolver at some point, but for now will probably just stay with the Sig. We're very security conscious (I've had police and other security training), so I'm not too concerned about invasion while we're home. On the road, it's more likely to be burglars who will hit the rig while we're out. RV parks tend to have a lot of eyes watching out, though.

[Anaamika]

As I mentioned in the other thread, I already want another gun; and I want it to be MY gun. I've got my heart set on a bolt action. I'm thinking about the Savage Mk II or the Marlin 980.

Thoughts?

Did I ever mention I did buy the Savage Mk II? There's a gun shop here that has the guns out, with trigger locks, so you can pick them up and put them to your shoulder and test out the weight and the feel without having to ask, and check out the sights and stuff like that. Pretty cool. Anyway I liked the Mk II feel best.

I put a couple of hundred rounds through it the weekend after I bought it and I LOVE it; it's so easy and so much more fun than the stupid Marlin. It never jammed, not once, and the bolt action was amazingly smooth.

[MacTech]

You made an excellent choice there, Mika, the Savage Mark series guns are great, you have a gun that has the potential to be just as accurate as a CZ or Ancschutz for significantly less money

Enjoy the new gun :)

....see, I told you resistance was futile…

So, what's your *next* gun?

So now the next thing that you need to do, is try a bunch of different 22 caliber ammunition, and find out what your gun likes best, I found that CCI Blazer is good inexpensive plinking ammo, and CCI Subsonic and Green Tag are great for when I want maximum accuracy

I've never had good luck with Remington golden bullets or thunderbolts, dirty, unreliable, and a high rate of duds

[Chefguy]

An update on the Mosquito. I went back to where I bought it to pick up a soft case for it and talked to the owner of the place. I specifically asked him about complaints and problems with this piece, especially in light of the comment above about the slide cracking. He said that the only complaints he gets on the gun are the same as for any other .22 semi-auto: jams. I asked about the cracked slide and he said he'd never seen it or even heard about it. He also said that he pays close attention to customer complaints about specific guns, and will quit carrying guns that have problems. So far, the Sig Mo has not stood out as a problem weapon. I feel better about my purchase in light of this, and just thought I'd report back on it.