FIOS Question This is a real emergency for me

[cynyc]

I'm going to be cut off (again) in 2 days for non-payment.

I have spent 70 hours on the phone with FIOS about how I DID NOT order pay-per-view porn. I don't even know how to operate a dang remote!

They insist the orders came from my "box" and suggested that someone is sneaking into my house and ordering these movies. Sometimes 1-2 minutes apart!!!!!!!!!

Management even came out during the strike and told me 'no movies were recently ordered from this box" and that parental controls were ON. And that was like 8 mos. ago.

To date I've been overcharged around 1500 bucks--which is why I can't keep up with the bills. I can't do this anymore.

Oh and I'm disabled (9-11) but that's another story.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT VERIZON FIBER OPTIC FIOS CAN BE PIRATED OR SOMETHING? They say no.

Please help me.

I have the 'net/TV/phone package with HDTV altho I don't have an HD TV. Also wireless capability barely used. And an XBox.

[Amblydoper]

I think you need to speak with someone higher up in customer service. You had a manager at your home to inspect your setup? How about calling him/her directly? You got a name and phone number, right? AT the very least, a manager should be able to keep your service turned on until this issue is resolved.

BUT.

What is the possibility that you really did order the porn? Do you live with anyone? Does anyone have access to your home? Any teenage boys, who watch porn and lie about it?

[Al Bundy]

I wonder if your WIFI is unprotected. I have heard that X-box users leave it that way for some reason. I had a neighbor that did that and I used his WIFI, with his permission, all day long. I could have downloaded anything.

[Dorjän]

Downloading Porn has nothing to do with Pay-Per-View. Sounds like kids or a serious account mix-up.

[lazybratsche]

Hmm...

I have FIOS, but without a TV box of any sort. The fiber cable goes to a service box in the basement, which then plugs into a network of coax cables that date from when this house was wired for cable. I can plug my Verizon-provided router into any one of several coax outlets throughout the house. If I had a set-top box, I believe I could do the same. So, if your neighbor has access to a coax cable from your house, they could potentially plug in their own set-top-box and order all the porn they desired. This is obviously more plausible if you share a wall with them, but they could also run a cable from your house to theirs (not entirely unheard of).

I'm not entirely sure on this point, but some of the googling around indicates that some Verizon set top boxes are ordinary network devices. So potentially they can connect a set-top-box to your network in any way, including wifi, and use that to order all of the pay-per-view porn they want.

Both of those possibilities might be prevented by other types of security (don't set top boxes have to authenticate in some manner?) but that's always been an arms race, and there has always been a thriving market for hardware that can pirate other people's cable...

[muldoonthief]

Hmm...

I have FIOS, but without a TV box of any sort. The fiber cable goes to a service box in the basement, which then plugs into a network of coax cables that date from when this house was wired for cable. I can plug my Verizon-provided router into any one of several coax outlets throughout the house. If I had a set-top box, I believe I could do the same. So, if your neighbor has access to a coax cable from your house, they could potentially plug in their own set-top-box and order all the porn they desired. This is obviously more plausible if you share a wall with them, but they could also run a cable from your house to theirs (not entirely unheard of).


I'm pretty sure that's not true. The set top box is authenticated with the ONT where the fiber enters the house, so if you hooked up your STB in someone else's house, it just wouldn't work.

But even if it was true, the STB is what's in the FIOS database, not the house address. So if you could connect your STB to someone else's network, and ordered PPV or VOD, the bill would go to the STB owner's account.

Now what you can do, though it would only be for purposes of screwing someone over, is get their password for their online account, which you can log into from anywhere, and order VOD or PPV from there. I don't know how much security there is on that, because I don't want to test it out and accidently order something, but you absolutely can get to a screen that lets you order content even when you're not at home. The person doing it wouldn't be able to actually watch the content however.

[cynyc]

Yes we have a box. And then those wireless things. I think I better wait until the kid gets home to explain it to me. And yes I have a teen but these movies were ordered even when he was away!

So basic questions:

Are these porn flicks 30 seconds long?

How could they be ordered 1-2 minutes apart when I'm told that it takes several minutes to go through the process to order a movie.

My next door through the wall neighbors are 3 males in their early 20's.

DOg howling to go out. I'll be back.

I LOVE YOU GUYS. (but I can hardly understand a word you are saying.) :)

[cynyc]

I don't know what STB is. But I think these movies were never actually "watched." The 85th tech guy I spoke to said I'm not obligated to pay for unwatched movies and I should take it up with billing who of course never heard such a thing.

BTW Fios was in the news last week--awesome profits and bonuses kind of thing.

I'm pretty sure that's not true. The set top box is authenticated with the ONT where the fiber enters the house, so if you hooked up your STB in someone else's house, it just wouldn't work.

But even if it was true, the STB is what's in the FIOS database, not the house address. So if you could connect your STB to someone else's network, and ordered PPV or VOD, the bill would go to the STB owner's account.

Now what you can do, though it would only be for purposes of screwing someone over, is get their password for their online account, which you can log into from anywhere, and order VOD or PPV from there. I don't know how much security there is on that, because I don't want to test it out and accidently order something, but you absolutely can get to a screen that lets you order content even when you're not at home. The person doing it wouldn't be able to actually watch the content however.

[lazybratsche]

"STB" is just an abbreviation of "set-top-box", i.e. the thing that plugs into your TV and lets you watch shows and order pay-per-view.

Otherwise I don't have any more help for you.

[Postariti]

Contact your Attorney General's office. Send them a copy of the bill and point out that there's no way anyone could actually be watching these movies.

Send snail-mail letters to your FIOS provider. Be polite and spell everything out in detail. Inculde copies of the bills, and point out that the charges are simply impossible. Tell then you think your box is defective.

That's really the direction you should try. Your box is defective, you never ordered the movies. Ask for a new box. Keep sending letters and emails, and keep copies of everything.

[cynyc]

Still, is it possible somebody from somewhere is doing this? I looked around and learned words like descrambler / pirate / and so on but the posts were so geeky I couldn't understand. And if FIOS is in the search term along with stealing or hacking the first 20 pages are all FIOS ads.

[Dog80]

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-TV-Technical-Assistance/Hacked-Video-Rental-Account/td-p/334057

Looks like there are several people who have the same problem. One said that he requested a replacement Set Top Box and after that there weren't any false charges.

[just_some_guy5]

My next door through the wall neighbors are 3 males in their early 20's.


I admittedly don't know much about how the technology for stealing cable to order pay-per-view movies works, but I've gotta say the demographics of your through-the-wall neighbors raises some very large red flags.

[cynyc]

I need somebody to make a phone call for me!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't dare do it from my phone because I told them it is Attorney General Time.

Check this out!

Ad on most recent extortion bill. A new 'service':

Verizon News
Monitoring and control service

Verizon Home Monitoring and Controls lets you manage your home from nearly anywhere w/a compatible smartphone, PC or or FiOS TV. Plans just 9.99/mo. Call 1-888-863-9302.

Followed by taxes and fees disclaimer.

Maybe there's something there...

[cynyc]

Wonder if they got a credit.

Oh. When I called the AG office the gal said she got the same complaint last week.

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-TV-Technical-Assistance/Hacked-Video-Rental-Account/td-p/334057

Looks like there are several people who have the same problem. One said that he requested a replacement Set Top Box and after that there weren't any false charges.

[JohnT]

Just because you told them it's "Attorney General time" doesn't mean you can't call them anymore. :confused:

The other thing sounds like an offer for a service. You have to dial the number to order it, and it's $9.99/month.

[Odaran09]

Another possibility, (I thought they would have fixed it by now but I may be wrong) is that someone cloned the MAC address of your box.

Every network device has an IP which can change (even if you have a static IP service, it can be changed easily if you needed to), but your MAC (Machine Access Code) address is difficult to change. It is usually hard coded in the NIC (Network Interface Chip/Card). Although MAC address can be changed, you really have to know what you are doing or you will mess up the chip and it won't work anymore.

I used to hear of a method where you used the appropriate network card on a PC to interface with the cable/satellite network. You sniffed out what Devices (cable boxes) were on the network and cloned one of the MAC addresses on different box. Because there are boxes with multiple tuners, the cable/satellite companys were not always able to determine that there was a pirated device.

Of course you wanted to be close to the node (group of boxes like the same neighborhood) of the MAC adress you cloned, otherwise the cable company would know something is up if it sees the same "box" in two different states.

It is ususally the MAC address that they block when they disable your cable.

I can be wrong because I have not kept up with that area of technology. If some little tweener figured that out, I can see them passing the info along to their friends and that is how you get 1-2 mins between purchases.

Easiest way to figure this out is to call your provider, physically disconnect the box, hope that the thief is using theirs and see if the tech on the phone can ping the MAC adress. If it is still showing up, you got cloned. A new box means a new MAC address so as long as they target someone else or stop doing it, you should be fine. Assuming this is what's happening to you.


Sorry about the post's grammer and spelling, I don't have a lot of time on break.

[cynyc]

Odaran09: Thank you for your (limited no less) time. (Kiss.)

My kid's tutor, who just showed up, is an IT guy. I asked him if it was feasible. He said yes that anything digital could be "spoofed" I told him I understood what a spoof email was and to make one isn't all that sophisticated and, basically, what does that have to do with the price of rice? He said that would be an example of a "Low Level One Spoof." So yes there are "levels" to this business. What he doesn't know is how it is done.

Of course FiOS employees all state the party line--"impossible." (And to an earlier poster--there are no "higher ups" according to they who answer the calls at the 6 departments I've spoken to a dozen times each; each of which doesn't handle "this.")

Damn shame one needs to be an attorney and a special investigator just to have a cable package."

[Derleth]

Another possibility, (I thought they would have fixed it by now but I may be wrong) is that someone cloned the MAC address of your box.

Every network device has an IP which can change (even if you have a static IP service, it can be changed easily if you needed to), but your MAC (Machine Access Code) Tiny nitpick: Media Access Control, which, by itself, refers to the entire process of controlling who on the LAN can talk at any given moment; thus, each NIC (which you defined correct) will have its own MAC address, regardless of how many NICs a complete computer (or STB) has. A MAC address is what you correctly referred to above and what can be cloned, at least on personal computers.

[drachillix]

Another hypothetical. There are methods with comcast where you can watch pay per view and on demand stuff from a computer or tablet. Verizon may have similar services. All you need for comcast is some info off your bill which can be easily aquired by any random customer service rep or someone who might have picked your bill out of the trash.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/01/05/comcast-plans-to-offer-on-demand-and-live-content-for-ipad-android-tablets-this-year/

[cynyc]

Let's try this. Can some one help me out with search terms that could be used for somebody would wants to learn how to, um, steal movies and whatever kind of havoc?

[BigAppleBucky]

Verizon has been pretty good about adjusting bills for me, but nothing like $1,500 worth.

I've had FiOS for a bit over 3 years now without a major problem, except for the hurricane last fall.

Two porn movie orders within two minutes seems like a dead giveaway that it's a scam.

[postcards]

Let's try this. Can some one help me out with search terms that could be used for somebody would wants to learn how to, um, steal movies and whatever kind of havoc?
Maybe you should read all the FAQs.
(http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=384736)
You're moving from 'asking for help' to 'asking for a moderator warning'.

See this FAQ (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7696990#post7696990), third item down from the word 'Specifically'.

[just_some_guy5]

Maybe you should read all the FAQs.
(http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=384736)
You're moving from 'asking for help' to 'asking for a moderator warning'.

See this FAQ (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7696990#post7696990), third item down from the word 'Specifically'.

Based on his/her above posts, I don't think cynyc was requesting search terms for the purposes of "stealing movies and whatever kind of havoc". Instead, I think cynyc was trying to figure out how someone managed to do that to his/her account, since Verizon seems to be rather unhelpful with the issue.

[Jake]

Cynyc, please keep us posted. How's it going?

[cynyc]

Based on his/her above posts, I don't think cynyc was requesting search terms for the purposes of "stealing movies and whatever kind of havoc". Instead, I think cynyc was trying to figure out how someone managed to do that to his/her account, since Verizon seems to be rather unhelpful with the issue.

I think I'm falling in love with you. ;-)

Jake: Thank you for asking. I bought another day -- I'll have it tomorrow.

I stayed up half the night flaming the Verizon "Community" Board. I felt like that Hispanic ? chick in one of those Aliens movies.

At the moment I'm avoiding calling again. I'm tired of the war. I so much want to be off of the grid.

Anyhoo... A couple of weeks ago tech #39 told me that if the movies weren't "watched" I'm not obligated to pay. I thought cool. So on the phone 2 days ago when I was on the phone with billing again, after being transferred there from tech #42, I mentioned this to billing who never heard of it (but we know that already) then added that tech would have to make such a note to my file yada yada.

I'm low on Mojo.

I think I'll check my email now.

[Carlarm]

cynyc,

Does the newspaper in your area have an Action Line column or local TV station have a consumer advocate on their news program? It seems your predicament would be ideal for such a story.

Good luck!

[cynyc]

cynyc,

Does the newspaper in your area have an Action Line column or local TV station have a consumer advocate on their news program? It seems your predicament would be ideal for such a story.

Good luck!

Yes, Hun--I did that also to no response. As usual.

I was reluctant to answer you because one of the mods suggested I post too much. :smack:

[cynyc]

I use the word update loosely.

Next is to have tech confirm that the 400 movies were actually watched. Several techs ago gave me a tip: If they weren't watched you're not obligated to pay. Nobody else heard of this of course but after days of printing out every damn bill I will proceed.

AM I not entitled to smell flowers and so on?

OWS!

[BigT]

Yes, Hun--I did that also to no response. As usual.

I was reluctant to answer you because one of the mods suggested I post too much. :smack:

I believe they meant that you were starting too many threads. No one's going to complain that you are posting too much trying to solve this problem.

[cynyc]

I believe they meant that you were starting too many threads. No one's going to complain that you are posting too much trying to solve this problem.

A post is a post.

I'm sure my stats will go down big time over a 10 year spread. ;-)

No I haven't called Fios for round 162 yet. I just paid the extortion money for now.

I'm thinking about Panax ginseng as a mojo source. Dealing with them is exhausting.

I sooooo want off the grid but I'm told it's next to impossible in an urban area.:smack:

[al27052]

MAC addresses can definitely be cloned. I don't know if the authentication process for a FiOS box only involves the MAC address, though.

I would strongly guess, though, that your porn-hungry neighbors are doing this, one way or another.

If they ever had access to your home, even once, they could easily run a video feed back to their own apartment from one of your STBs. Then they could use a UHF remote to order movies through the wall of your apartment, and get the video feed on their end.

That's the most likely scenario, because it doesn't require much technical know-how or cost.

I would contact your local news stations, newspapers, the Better Business Bureau, and maybe even police. It goes without saying that you should write multiple letters to the Verizon CEO's office. The bigger the stink you make, the more likely you are to get these charges credited back.

[cynyc]

Hm. Access to home... What would they need to accomplish here? This would have to be a physical access thing?

TIA

MAC addresses can definitely be cloned. I don't know if the authentication process for a FiOS box only involves the MAC address, though.

I would strongly guess, though, that your porn-hungry neighbors are doing this, one way or another.

If they ever had access to your home, even once, they could easily run a video feed back to their own apartment from one of your STBs. Then they could use a UHF remote to order movies through the wall of your apartment, and get the video feed on their end.

That's the most likely scenario, because it doesn't require much technical know-how or cost.

I would contact your local news stations, newspapers, the Better Business Bureau, and maybe even police. It goes without saying that you should write multiple letters to the Verizon CEO's office. The bigger the stink you make, the more likely you are to get these charges credited back.

[al27052]

Hm. Access to home... What would they need to accomplish here? This would have to be a physical access thing?

TIA

Just to run a line back to their apartment, is all they'd need to do. They might even be able to use the existing coaxial TV cables in the house, and just put a splitter on the line that's feeding your STB, to backfeed the signal. They could tap into the coax in their apartment and pull the video feed that way.

It's also possible they are doing some much higher-level hacking as well.

[muldoonthief]

MAC addresses can definitely be cloned. I don't know if the authentication process for a FiOS box only involves the MAC address, though.

I would strongly guess, though, that your porn-hungry neighbors are doing this, one way or another.

If they ever had access to your home, even once, they could easily run a video feed back to their own apartment from one of your STBs. Then they could use a UHF remote to order movies through the wall of your apartment, and get the video feed on their end.

That's the most likely scenario, because it doesn't require much technical know-how or cost.

I would contact your local news stations, newspapers, the Better Business Bureau, and maybe even police. It goes without saying that you should write multiple letters to the Verizon CEO's office. The bigger the stink you make, the more likely you are to get these charges credited back.

This is possible, but a lot more difficult than you're stating.

Verification of the box is done with encryption keys, not MAC addresses. It's certainly breakable, but not as easy as spoofing a MAC address.

No FIOS STB has a UHF remote - they're all IR, so you can't control it through a wall.

The output signal of the STB won't wind up on the same coax cable that's bringing signal from the ONT to the STB. If you use coax to the TV, it's a separate connector on the back of the box. So they can't just tap into the cable running through the wall between the houses. Presumably the OP would have noticed if there was an extra cable going from the back of the STB to a hole in the wall.

[control-z]

There has to be some way to talk to someone who has some sense at Verizon. Can you talk to the same rep more than once? Maybe you could unplug the receiver and lock up the remote for an entire day and night, then call Verizon to see if any movies were logged during that time. Try talking to them before and after you do this. If they are still logging movies for you tell them they have a problem and you're not going to pay for their problem.

[al27052]

I still suggest writing letters to the CEO's office.

You could also start trashing them like this all over the web. :)

[al27052]

No FIOS STB has a UHF remote - they're all IR, so you can't control it through a wall.

The output signal of the STB won't wind up on the same coax cable that's bringing signal from the ONT to the STB. If you use coax to the TV, it's a separate connector on the back of the box. So they can't just tap into the cable running through the wall between the houses. Presumably the OP would have noticed if there was an extra cable going from the back of the STB to a hole in the wall.


They actually wouldn't need to backfeed the signal. FiOS provides SD channels without the need for a STB.

They could order the movies through FiOS's website, and change the TV channel with the FiOS remote access app.

I knew it could be done. I just had to research it a little.

[bxnyemt]

Call up and ask for the FiOS Elite Team. They are the ones who can fix anything, believe me I used them before. Explain to them what you have been through and if there is another cable provider in the area, threaten to go to them and say they offered you a better price, or a Multi Room DVR free and see how fast they will correct things and give you discounts to keep you as a customer. I did it when they tried to raise the price on me after being locked into a 2 year contact and I dot a discount for a year of $20, the DVR FREE FOR LIFE, another credit and a change in service where mt internet is 35/35.

When my contract was up I told them Cablevision was trying to get me back and quoted a price. They still let me keep the discounts, gave me another $20 discount till 2014 and a $300 gift card for signing on for 2 years so for all (TV, PHONE (2 lines and a virtual line for my fax) and 3 HD Boxes for $193 a month while cablevision was charging me $245 with NO virtual line, no on demand channels for those I subscribed to, so I think I got a good deal.

One thing, is your TV near a window and is it parental control password-ed? People have been know to mess with people from across the street if they can hit the bod with the remote. I know I can with my neighbor across the street in an apartment building so it may be something to keep in mind.

Good luck!:)

[Jenaroph]

Just so you know, this thread is a year old, and the original poster was banned.