Marvel's Avengers - early reviews seem positive [edited title]

[WordMan]

100% on Rotten Tomatoes, but only 14 reviews. See here (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/marvels_the_avengers/#).

General kudos are getting sent Joss Whedon's way for knitting together a complex set of story threads, characters and movie studio requirements into something that works. They clearly have been marketing the "Whedon is part of the Celebrity quotient" of the movie, but this praise appears to be earned.

Cool.

[hogarth]

Hm. I'm not sure that "a complex set of story threads" is necessarily something I look for in an action movie. (At least in part because I end up having to explain stuff to my wife in the middle of the film.)

I haven't seen anything that Joss Whedon has written since "Toy Story" and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (the movie), so I can't say that having his name attached is a big attraction for me.

[Wolverine]

The Avengers has recently premiered in the UK and the early reviews are coming in (obligatory Rotten Tomatoes link (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/marvels_the_avengers/)). Everyone has been very positive saying it is a perfect popcorn movie with a great blend of action, character moments, and humor. Joss Whedon is getting a lot of love from the critics. I am geeked up to go see this in May.

Who else is planning to go see it?

[MegaBee]

I've waited decades for this movie to happen.

[Bakhesh]

Yep, really cannot wait to see this.

And the best bit is, I'm a brit, so I'll see it next week :D:D:D:D:D:D

[FinnAgain]

Although it is fairly unmanly, I must say: squeeeeeeeee!

[Alessan]

What the reviews are also saying is that it's funnier and has more and better action than any other superhero movie to date. The climactic battle in particular is getting raves - and seeing as most superhero flicks seem to falter in the last act, that's no mean feat.

[twickster]

Merged duplicate threads.

[drastic_quench]

When I see photos of Bane and Catwoman from The Dark Knight Rises, I think 'that's all?' I'll see both, but it just looks so boring by comparison. For me, it mirrors the differences in the comics since the sixties with Marvel being the flashier one with more human characteristics vs DC being more old school, talky, and aiming for cerebral over fun.

Hulk looks better than ever. Supposedly, he steals the show. Now that they've finally got a first rate CGI Hulk that they won't have to redesign, won't a sequel be a likelier prospect with so much of the budget freed up?

[Ephemera]

Joss and Marvel are two of my favorite things, so I've been super excited once he was attached to it. I'm really hoping this and The Cabin in the Woods might give him some more mainstream visibility.

[sachertorte]

I haven't seen anything that Joss Whedon has written since "Toy Story" and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (the movie), so I can't say that having his name attached is a big attraction for me.

He wrote Toy Story?! Wow, I did not know that.
That actually makes me more interested. Too bad I never go out to the movies anymore. I probably see it eventually though. It's a Disney movie right?

[Ethilrist]

Anybody else doing a prequel marathon? I'm watching the movie, then the making-ofs, then watching it again with commentary on. I'm halfway through Iron Man 2.

[drastic_quench]

He wrote Toy Story?! Wow, I did not know that.
That actually makes me more interested. Too bad I never go out to the movies anymore. I probably see it eventually though. It's a Disney movie right?

along with a half dozen others

[WordMan]

Hm. I'm not sure that "a complex set of story threads" is necessarily something I look for in an action movie.

Exactly - but that is the challenge they laid at Whedon's feet when he took on this role, simply because this movie is meant to tie together 5 (more? 2 Hulks; 2 Iron Mans, Thor, Captain America...) previous summer blockbuster movies - and no doubt do it in a way that sets up further individual AND Avenger movies...

Sounds like a pretty complex Rubic's Cube of a challenge - if he pulled it off AND made a fun, entertaining movie that delivers blockbustery goodness, well, that's an impressive accomplishment. Perhaps not Shakespeare, but technically impressive.

[Dr_Doom]

Unfortunately, there likely won't be a Fantastic Four/Avengers crossover that would look right, due to Chris Evans.

I am totally stoked about this movie. Scarlett Johansson in spandex, Cobie Smulders, hopefully in something shiny, and the rest of the cast -besides the Hulk- keeping visual continuity is extremely exciting.

Also, I read somewhere that this is the first Hulk CGI where the actor is doing green-screen facial expressions with the digital gizmo-thingies, a la Andy Serkis/Gollum.

Marvel has gotten very lucky in the casting department for every one of the characters (save the Hulk/Bruce Banner, I suppose we'll find out) involved in this film.

[drastic_quench]

Exactly - but that is the challenge they laid at Whedon's feet when he took on this role, simply because this movie is meant to tie together 5 (more? 2 Hulks; 2 Iron Mans, Thor, Captain America...) previous summer blockbuster movies - and no doubt do it in a way that sets up further individual AND Avenger movies...

Sounds like a pretty complex Rubic's Cube of a challenge - if he pulled it off AND made a fun, entertaining movie that delivers blockbustery goodness, well, that's an impressive accomplishment. Perhaps not Shakespeare, but technically impressive.

Yep. From what I've heard there's no real required viewing to enjoy Avengers. Sure, the movies will walk you through origins and personalities, but if you're just out for a fun movie, you can watch it on it's own.

I was never a big Whedon fan, but his run on Astonishing X-Men impressed me.

[DigitalC]

Anybody else doing a prequel marathon? I'm watching the movie, then the making-ofs, then watching it again with commentary on. I'm halfway through Iron Man 2.

The local theater is having an all day 40 buck showing of all the movies before the launch, i was very tempted.

[Elendil's Heir]

I was a walk-on extra for the movie's last night of filming in Cleveland, along with a buddy, so I'm especially psyched to see The Avengers. If all goes well, I'll even appear in it for more than a nanosecond!

[Dr_Doom]

Hey, that's awesome!

What characters were in your scene? Did you even see any?

[John DiFool]

I'm getting the same kind of confusion here between Green Hornet and Green Lantern, not to mention Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_(TV_series)) and Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Christmas), but worse; I am assuming that these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%28TV_series%29) Avengers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(1998_film)) has absolutely nothing to do with said upcoming movie? Why can't they use a more original name?

[WordMan]

I'm getting the same kind of confusion here between Green Hornet and Green Lantern, not to mention Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_(TV_series)) and Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Christmas), but worse; I am assuming that these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%28TV_series%29) Avengers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(1998_film)) has absolutely nothing to do with said upcoming movie? Why can't they use a more original name?

I think both comic and TV premiered around the same time, mid-60's. No different than Rolling Stone and the Rolling Stones and Like a Rolling Stone...

[silenus]

I'm getting the same kind of confusion here between Green Hornet and Green Lantern, not to mention Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_(TV_series)) and Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Christmas), but worse; I am assuming that these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%28TV_series%29) Avengers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(1998_film)) has absolutely nothing to do with said upcoming movie? Why can't they use a more original name?

The Avengers (British, Steed + revolving partners) debuted in 1961. The Avengers (comics, USA, Marvel) debuted in 1963. I seriously doubt more than a handful of Americans were even the slightest bit aware of a third-rate show on the BBC.

Besides, the other Avengers movie sucked donkey balls.

[Moonlitherial]

The local theater is having an all day 40 buck showing of all the movies before the launch, i was very tempted.

They're doing that here too and I contemplated it just long enough to realize that I'd be asleep long before the Avengers started.

[Chronos]

Heck, even my mom is thinking of seeing it (though that's mostly because she's a Clevelander). The reviews would have to have been positively terrible to keep me from seeing it, since I thought the Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man movies were all great, and I have a lot of respect for Whedon's work.

[B. Serum]

I am busting at the seams to see this movie! Even more since I met Joss Whedon last week.


Oops, it appears I dropped something. :D

[Elendil's Heir]

Hey, that's awesome!

What characters were in your scene? Did you even see any?

Loki was there. I signed a nondisclosure agreement, so I was thinking I'll post something here after the movie's actually released.

[Mahaloth]

I am busting at the seams to see this movie! Even more since I met Joss Whedon last week.


Cool, what did you say? How did this happen?

[B. Serum]

My girlfriend is old high school buds with an editor on "Cabin in the Woods." She invited us out to opening night screening in Hollywood. We were simply thinking how cool it would be to clap for our friend's name buried in the credit crawl. We all went upstairs to the bar afterwards for drinks and who walks up but Whedon, whom she knows pretty well. We were all introduced to one another, shook hands and basically just had a little small talk. Mentioned how much we liked "Cabin" and were looking forward to "Avengers." My memory is a little fuzzy because of the drink, bar noise and being completely starstruck to my core. Happy to report he was a very down-to-earth, easygoing guy who wasn't "holding court" at all. Very casual. Easily one of the coolest things that happened to me. Thanks for letting me brag all over the place. :)

[Larry Borgia]

Really looking forward to this. If it's as good as it looks, I might see it twice, in 2d and 3d. I've never done that before. I feel like I've been waiting for this since I was a little kid.

Awesome story, B.Serum. I am consumed with envy. :)

[Student Driver]

Exactly - but that is the challenge they laid at Whedon's feet when he took on this role, simply because this movie is meant to tie together 5 (more? 2 Hulks; 2 Iron Mans, Thor, Captain America...) previous summer blockbuster movies - and no doubt do it in a way that sets up further individual AND Avenger movies...

Just five. The Ang Lee Hulk movie isn't part of the current Marvel movie universe.

I'll be seeing this on the standard US opening night. AMC Theaters is running a Marvel movie marathon (starting at 11:30 AM on May 3), the Indianapolis presentation of which I'll be attending. I believe the order of showings will be Iron Man > Incredible Hulk > Iron Man 2 > Thor > Captain America > Avengers (at midnight). 12+ hours of superheroes in one go. (Edited to add: this is the $40 thing mentioned earlier by a couple of posters.)

I actually haven't seen any of the earlier films despite being a comics fan. My school/work/teaching schedule was in the way of all five, and though I've bought Thor and Cap on 3D Blu Ray, I'd avoided watching them until I could get caught up on the earlier films in the canon. My comics-reading friends have dutifully not spoiled any of them for me, so I'm going to be experiencing everything for the first time in a couple of weeks.

[ianzin]

I seriously doubt more than a handful of Americans were even the slightest bit aware of a third-rate show on the BBC. Nor was anyone else. The show never appeared on the BBC. It was only ever an ITV production.

[MsRobyn]

I'm all kinds of excited about this movie. I'm not much of a comic book fan, but I love movies based on comics. I've seen all but the Hulk and really enjoyed all of them
I can't wait for this to come out.

[RickJay]

He wrote Toy Story?! Wow, I did not know that.
That actually makes me more interested.
Whedon is one of five writers credited for "Toy Story," and his contribution was limited to being brought in late in development to help fine tune it.

Ironically, his most significant and best idea was to include a Barbie doll in a key role late in the picture - and they had to toss that idea out because Mattel wouldn't let them. Fortunately (and hilariously) they got Barbie into Toy Story 2, albeit in a different way. Whedon, ironically, has no writing credit on that film.

[Bakhesh]

Well, I've just seen it. It was bloody amazing actually. Hugely entertaining, great script and perfectly cast. It works on just about every level.





I'm not going to post any spoilers, apart from one about the after credits scene....

Thanos!!!!

[Chronos]

Is this out in the US now, or just overseas?

[silenus]

Overseas. It opens here on Star Wars Day.

[President Johnny Gentle]

Is the film comprehensible to someone who hasn't seen the earlier films? I've been invited to a midnight showing by some friends and I'm considering it, but worried.

[galen ubal]

It's opened in Australia, and we saw it last night.

Wow. It's not just a good superhero movie, but a good movie in its own right. Witty dialogue, a story that makes sense, and a great villain.
What's under Bakesh's spoiler tag got a "Holy Sh*t" from me - though I'll quibble and call it a mid-credits scene, not post credits (and thank goodness for that! I'm glad to see the fad for post-credit scenes is mostly gone).
We saw it in 3D. Interestingly, the theatre was maybe half sold for that showing, while the 2D showing at the same time was sold out. The 3D (as usual) didn't hurt anything, and didn't help either. Not worth the extra money or wearing the glasses.

[silenus]

Looks like Joss has a certifiable hit on his hands. Good for Him!

[Craz3d117]

I can understand why long time comic book readers would be excited for this, however I myself am having a really hard time getting hyped for this movie. I mean, The Incredible Hulk was ok, Captain America was ok, Iron Man I and II were ok, Thor was ok. Why should I think this movie will be anything other than just ok? I think this movie (from what I've read) will probably good, but I can't help but think it's being over-hyped.

[tavalla]

I can understand why long time comic book readers would be excited for this, however I myself am having a really hard time getting hyped for this movie. I mean, The Incredible Hulk was ok, Captain America was ok, Iron Man I and II were ok, Thor was ok. Why should I think this movie will be anything other than just ok? I think this movie (from what I've read) will probably good, but I can't help but think it's being over-hyped.I'm not a comic-book reader (well, okay, I read Watchmen, but only after I saw the movie), and I got a kick out of it. I don't think it's about being a reader; it's about this kind of movie being to your taste. I don't really dig the Hulk - neither of the recent movies thrilled me all that much, although Tim Roth was kinda cool in the latter one. But the first Iron Man movie, Thor and Captain America are all movies I'll cheerfully re-watch. They're to my taste: fun, sharp dialogue for the most part, believable villains*, shit blowin' up real pretty :D

If superhero movies aren't your thing, then they're not your thing; but, if they are, this is a pretty neat entry into the genre. I'm sure we'll make time to see it again before it leaves theatres.




*We were talking on the way home last night and this something most of the Marvel movies have in common. The villains aren't just taking over the world because that's what evil villains do; they have their own reasons and drives for their villainy. Magneto still wins; his motivation is perfectly understandable, given his history.

[cmkeller]

I am pumped for this movie, but not very excited to hear that the villain in the sequel is likely to be Thanos.

I really want to see Ultron, who's much more of an Avengers-specific villain, and has both great story potential, plus additional Avengers characters whose introduction would be natural for an Ultron story (Hank Pym, Wasp, Vision - maybe a call-back to the brief appearance of the original Human Torch in the Captain America movie).

Another potential Avengers-specific movie villain could be the Masters of Evil, if they're properly introduced in the second round of individual movies. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have the Enchantress and Executioner in the next Thor movie, for example.

[Craz3d117]

I loved Watchmen, and in some ways I think I was spoiled by it. I know The Avengers and all its super heroes are a completely different style than Watchmen but when I watch The Avenger movies I can't help but think what they could be. For instance, I love Captain America, and was really looking forward to that movie. But when I saw it I was really disappointed to see it was just some simple popcorn flick. So when I see a movie with as much potential as The Avengers I just want a little more than a pretty good action movie.

[Sir T-Cups]

Well, I've just seen it. It was bloody amazing actually. Hugely entertaining, great script and perfectly cast. It works on just about every level.





I'm not going to post any spoilers, apart from one about the after credits scene....

Thanos!!!!

This spoiler made me orgasm a little. He is my favorite Marvel character ever they NEED to make that movie.

[Bakhesh]

Is the film comprehensible to someone who hasn't seen the earlier films? I've been invited to a midnight showing by some friends and I'm considering it, but worried.

You don't need to see the ealier films, but they don't spend time re-explaining the characters, so a little bit of passing knowledge of who's who couldn't hurt. There have been a few 'guide to the avengers' type articles cropping up over the last couple of days, and a quick read through one would probably help (This sort of thing (http://rukkle.com/movies/the-ultimate-guide-to-the-avengers))

I really want to see Ultron, who's much more of an Avengers-specific villain, and has both great story potential, plus additional Avengers characters whose introduction would be natural for an Ultron story (Hank Pym, Wasp, Vision - maybe a call-back to the brief appearance of the original Human Torch in the Captain America movie).

I can see Ultron cropping up in later movie, but I think they'd need to introduce Hank Pym in a sequel first


I can understand why long time comic book readers would be excited for this, however I myself am having a really hard time getting hyped for this movie. I mean, The Incredible Hulk was ok, Captain America was ok, Iron Man I and II were ok, Thor was ok. Why should I think this movie will be anything other than just ok? I think this movie (from what I've read) will probably good, but I can't help but think it's being over-hyped.

This is better than any of the lead-in films. If you thought they were ok, you will definitely like this

[bouv]

So freakin' excited to see this next week.

A local theater near me, the one we're seeing it at, will be doing a showing of Iron Man first, along with a Q&A with one of the writers from Iron Man, and then showing The Avengers at midnight.

A week is too long to wait!

[cmkeller]

Bakhesh:

I can see Ultron cropping up in later movie, but I think they'd need to introduce Hank Pym in a sequel first

Not necessarily. Hank doesn't even need to be a super-hero to begin with, he could just be the scientist whose AI experiment got out of control. Maybe he works for Tony Stark and is trying to upgrade JARVIS, maybe he works for SHIELD and is part of the LMD team (a SHIELD concept from the comics not yet introduced in the films, unless it's in Avengers).

[Bakhesh]

Bakhesh:



Not necessarily. Hank doesn't even need to be a super-hero to begin with, he could just be the scientist whose AI experiment got out of control. Maybe he works for Tony Stark and is trying to upgrade JARVIS, maybe he works for SHIELD and is part of the LMD team (a SHIELD concept from the comics not yet introduced in the films, unless it's in Avengers).

Very minor spoiler...

LMD's do get a brief mention

[MostlyClueless]

Just saw it. As popcorn movies go, this was excellent. Whedon did a good job balancing all the characters. I saw it with a very appreciative audience; high point for them was seeing Dr. Banner do his thing. (You'll know the thing when you see it.)

And hey, I can't get enough of Tony Stark, so that works out nicely.

And I don't know what's up with Thor's voice, but it works very, very, very well. Rawr.

[Bakhesh]

Did anyone pick up on the slightly odd line of Loki dialogue half way through the film....?

..when Loki calls Black Widow a 'mewling quim'? Seemed a bit out of place, seeing as quim is British slang for vagina. Caused a bit of sniggering in the cinema when he came out with this one.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Just bought my tickets for the primo showing: 7:00pm on opening night. Can't wait! :D

[Dr_Doom]

Thanos!!!!

No. Fucking. Way.

THANOS IS MY ALL-TIME FAVOURITE COMICS CHARACTER YOU JUST MADE ME SHIT MY PANTS!

[Lobohan]

...IS MY ALL-TIME FAVOURITE COMICS CHARACTER YOU JUST MADE ME SHIT MY PANTS!I think you may have missed the point of that spoiler button.

[Dr_Doom]

Aww, cripes.

Dammit, I'm so sorry.

[Marley23]

Added a spoiler tag.

[Dr_Doom]

Thank you!

[Maus Magill]

Aww, cripes.

Dammit, I'm so sorry.

I don't think you're the real Doctor Doom.


Being an Evil Overlord means never having to say you're sorry.

[obfusciatrist]

Just saw it. Liked it very much and I was tepid on most of the precursor movies.

[sandra_nz]

Saw it last Thursday and seeing it again tonight. I really enjoyed it, and I didn't expect to as I'm not a huge superhero fan and was feeling a bit 'over it all'. But it's so snappily written and well put together, I really enjoyed it.

I didn't understand some of the plot (which I won't discuss here as I know most won't have seen it yet) but knowing Whedon, it will have internal logic, so I'm hoping I'll understand it better on second viewing.

[Dr_Doom]

Being an Evil Overlord means never having to say you're sorry.

I'm still learning, hehe

[cmkeller]

With all the accolades it's getting, is it possible Whedon might get an Oscar nomination?

It's not just a popular popcorn movie, it's the skill involved in weaving together the varied characters and the elements from their separate movies into a cohesive single film. If it accomplishes not just that, but is seen as a good movie on its own merits as well, I'd say that should impress some people in the Academy.

[silenus]

Not a chance in Hell. It isn't a "serious" movie, so the Academy will ignore it, as usual.

[Elendil's Heir]

I'll be seeing it on Sun. afternoon with Mel, my fellow walk-on extra from the last night of filming in Cleveland. We're going to be looking very closely to see if we have any actual screen time. We were there for the filming of the
scene in the Stuttgart art museum (gallery?) where Loki kills a guy, and the crowd runs away in horror.

[obfusciatrist]

No way in hell for a directing nomination. Even less way in hell for a screenwriting nomination.

But the movie will get several nominations for technical sound, effects, etc.

[Infovore]

I just saw it tonight! (Spouse works for Apple, and they had a special screening.)
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Loved it, loved it, loved it! They managed to do what I didn't think they could do--they made all the characters interesting, and let each one shine. Almost everybody got funny lines (though the best were from Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk).

For anybody who watches it in the next few days, can you do me a favor if you think of it? In the Stan Lee cameo scene at the end, can you look closely at the guy he's playing chess with? I would seriously squee if it was Ian McKellen as Magneto (last seen chronologically in the X-Man movies depowered and playing chess in the park). That would be cooler than cool. By the time I registered that it was Stan Lee, I barely got a glimpse of the other guy, but he did look a bit like him.

One non-spoiler: be sure to stick around all the way to the end of the credits. The little scene people were talking about takes place about halfway through them. There's another easter egg all the way at the end that's worth waiting for. :)

[Miller]

Huh. Apparently, Infovore and I were in the same theater tonight. My bf works at Apple, and got me in as his +1.

[Jragon]

Huh. Apparently, Infovore and I were in the same theater tonight. My bf works at Apple, and got me in as his +1.

Huh... so apparently the "Bear flag republic" is "Somewhere fictional."

But seriously, I'm happy to hear it's good, I was fearing it would fall apart.

[galen ubal]

I just saw it tonight! (Spouse works for Apple, and they had a special screening.
<<snip>>
One non-spoiler: be sure to stick around all the way to the end of the credits. The little scene people were talking about takes place about halfway through them. There's another easter egg all the way at the end that's worth waiting for. :)
Well, hell - I've seen it (it's been playing in Australia) twice, and I'm quite sure there wasn't an end-of-credits scene. Care to tell us what it was, in spoiler?

Oh - and I'm seriously considering going to see it for a third time, a thing I haven't done since 1977 and Star Wars. It is very, very good.

[cmkeller]

Why is it opening (did it open) overseas before it opens in the USA?

[sandra_nz]

Why is it opening (did it open) overseas before it opens in the USA?

To make up for The Muppets. :mad:

:D

[planetcory]

No way in hell for a directing nomination. Even less way in hell for a screenwriting nomination.Yeah, the movie was great but there really wasn't much of a story.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

If this is better than the first Iron Man flick I'm going to love it, as I think that it, of all the individual superhero movies, is the best one, followed by The Hulk, then Iron Man 2. Captain America was disappointing and I haven't seen Thor or Green Lantern.

[RikWriter]

If this is better than the first Iron Man flick I'm going to love it, as I think that it, of all the individual superhero movies, is the best one, followed by The Hulk, then Iron Man 2. Captain America was disappointing and I haven't seen Thor or Green Lantern.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more with the second part of your statement. Iron-Man was the best, yes, IMHO, but Captain America was shoulder to shoulder with it, while I found Iron-Man 2 and The Hulk a bit disappointing.
Green Lantern is DC, and it sucked.

[Infovore]

Huh. Apparently, Infovore and I were in the same theater tonight. My bf works at Apple, and got me in as his +1.

Small world! Shoreline? :)

Well, hell - I've seen it (it's been playing in Australia) twice, and I'm quite sure there wasn't an end-of-credits scene. Care to tell us what it was, in spoiler?
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Remember at the end when the Hulk revived Tony by roaring at him, and he said something about wanting to go get shawarma? And then they had to go do other stuff and the comment kinda got forgotten. Well, at the very end of the credits, there's just a shot of all of them sitting around a tiny table in a blasted-out shawarma joint, looking like crap and eating. There's no dialog, but the camera lingers on the scene for probably 30 seconds to a minute. Their expressions are priceless. (And no, it's not the Hulk there...it's Banner. The Hulk would have been funnier. :D)

[Infovore]

Why is it opening (did it open) overseas before it opens in the USA?

I'm not sure where my spouse got this, but we were talking about it last night. Apparently it's now SOP for at least some studios to open movies overseas so they can rake in the "OMG it''s an American action movie!" take before the US reviews come in. (He called it "avoiding the John Carter debacle.") I asked him why they'd do it with something like the Avengers that's guaranteed to do well, and he said they're doing them with all of them now.

As I said, take this with a grain of salt as I have no idea where he picked it up. But it kinda makes sense.

[Skammer]

Haven't read this thread yet in case there are spoilers, but I just wanted to squee that I got my tickets today for a Saturday afternoon show (in 2D, thankyouverymuch).

[Mahaloth]

I'm not sure where my spouse got this, but we were talking about it last night. Apparently it's now SOP for at least some studios to open movies overseas so they can rake in the "OMG it''s an American action movie!" take before the US reviews come in. (He called it "avoiding the John Carter debacle.") I asked him why they'd do it with something like the Avengers that's guaranteed to do well, and he said they're doing them with all of them now.

As I said, take this with a grain of salt as I have no idea where he picked it up. But it kinda makes sense.

I don't think it is now SOP, though. In fact, it's quite rare even this summer.

[cainxinth]

I read Whedon included a lot of references to the comics for the hardcore fans. Could anyone mention some things I should be looking for?

[Miller]

Small world! Shoreline? :)

Yep! What did you think of the Tron cartoon?

[Infovore]

Yep! What did you think of the Tron cartoon?

It was...interesting. I'm not a big Tron fan, but it looked cool.

[Dave Hartwick]

I read Whedon included a lot of references to the comics for the hardcore fans. Could anyone mention some things I should be looking for?I had a look at the TVTropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/TheAvengers) page and it looks like there was a lot of minor characters named for obscure characters from the comics, plus some interesting stuff like props that feature art by Jack Kirby. See the section on Mythology Gags.

I don't think I was ever a hard core fan, but I had little recognition moments. The "A" from the Avengers logo shows up late in the film, for instance. And I was fooled into thinking that SHIELD's flagship wouldn't have the functionality it did in the comics. Enjoyed a shout out to the Hulk's battle cry but even the most casual fan would've caught that.

This is definitely a new favorite comic book movie and well worth the trip to the cinema.

[galen ubal]

Thanks, Infovore!
So, something sort of neat - but I don't mind missing it.

[Dave Hartwick]

Forbes magazine agrees (http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerfriedman/2012/04/25/battleship-with-rihanna-has-already-made-129-mil-before-landing-in-u-s/) with Infovore's spouse, claims Disney (http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerfriedman/2012/04/29/the-avengers-skipping-us-in-new-trend-makes-178-abroad/) was playing it safe with Avengers.

[Flutterby]

One non-spoiler: be sure to stick around all the way to the end of the credits. The little scene people were talking about takes place about halfway through them. There's another easter egg all the way at the end that's worth waiting for. :)

Well damn, I didn't stay to the end end because my BFF had to go to the bathroom. Since I could only take one person, I'll stay until the end end when I go with Sweetie (he likes to see who the caterer is anyway.. ;) )

I won tickets for tonight at the car show (Acura is apparently the car of the Avengers). A little surprised at the theatre not being full, it was mostly full but definitely not packed.

[Nava]

No. Fucking. Way.

THANOS IS MY ALL-TIME FAVOURITE COMICS CHARACTER YOU JUST MADE ME SHIT MY PANTS!

I think you may have missed the point of that spoiler button.

Dunnow, I wouldn't have guessed that one to be his favorite. Mind you: a spoiler for that particular piece of TMI would still have been appropriate.

[Elendil's Heir]

CNN.com mostly likes the movie: http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/03/showbiz/movies/avengers-review-charity/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

[BunnyTVS]

Saw it yesterday (looks at clock), day before yesterday. One of the only movies that really shows them to be superheroes. I really hope the writers for the new Superman movie take notes about the final battle.

Mark Ruffalo was great as Banner. He conveys a sense of inner peace, neccessary given his condition :) Joss takes his usual tropes; kick-ass female/sharp dialogue/and the other one* and has the budget and cast to show them off. My favourite scene has to be the face off between Loki and the Hulk...

Paraphrasing:

Loki: "What do you think you are doing? You stupid Animal! I AM A GOD"

Hulk: SMASH! SMASH! SMASH! "Puny god"

*Do NOT look at this spoiler if you haven't seen the movie
Poor Phil...

[Flutterby]

*Do NOT look at this spoiler if you haven't seen the movie
Poor Phil...

I know. And I should have expected something like that, but I'm still sad. I imagine lots of fan girls will be sad too, some of the slash I've read...

[silenus]

Relevant Dork Tower. (http://www.dorktower.com/2012/05/02/avengers-assembly-dork-tower-02-05-12/)

[sandra_nz]

Mark Ruffalo was great as Banner. He conveys a sense of inner peace, neccessary given his condition :)

Interesting - I saw it for the second time a couple of days ago and what struck me was that the anger was constantly seething under the surface, which I thought was an amazing performance.

[thinksnow]

Just got home.

We stayed through the first post-credit scene, but missed the last bit, with the sitting and doing the other thing Infovore mentioned.

Great flick. Well balanced, great pace, good humor and tension. Worth seeing, for certain.

[Little Plastic Ninja]

Just got back.

Fantastic stuff. Beautifully paced, lots of fun. I wish I was surprised they (MAJOR SPOILER)


iced Phil, but it IS Whedon. I was a little angry about it. Create an appealing, engaging character! Impale him! Even the WAY he died. Grah. Get another idea, Joss. :mad:


Still. Loved it. Everyone got the chance to shine. You know, what I think Whedon does best isn't necessarily his witty dialogue. I think he's far, far better at telling a story tightly and neatly. Not witty dialogue: concise, tight dialogue. Hell of a lot harder. And while this isn't really a spoiler, I'll box it anyway re Cap and Tony:


I really liked the way they showed the tension between the two men. Steve sees Tony almost immediately as being a carbon copy of his father and is startled and touched when he finds out that Howard tirelessly searched for him. Tony, meanwhile, is almost reflexively resentful of the man his father idolized. We watch them come together as the rest of the Avengers do so around them.


The things that annoyed me --


Not many, really.

Cobie Smulders didn't sell me as Maria Hill, a woman who should have at least as much gumption as Fury. She seemed present mostly for someone for Fury to exposit to.

The SHIELDie who scrambled to nuke Manhattan. Really? Not a quibble, not a qualm, not a bit of hesitation as he pushed the button? No "I am death, destroyer of egg creams"? Yes, I guess that is why they pick these guys and it was the rational if horribly chilly decision, but it did strike me as unrealistic that anyone short of a complete sociopath would be able to press that button without a shake of the finger.

And Phil. :(

[magnusblitz]

Saw it at a midnight showing, liked it a lot. Not sure I would say it's as good as the first Iron Man movie, but it's up there. Lots of good one-liners and moments. The Hulk/Loki scene near the end was great.

Negatives? The plot is paper-thin and the villains are lackluster. Loki's better than he was in Thor, but he's still no Magneto. And the faceless alien mooks didn't do much for me. (I thought they were going to be Skrulls, but apparently they're the Ultimate Marvel universe expy of the Skrull).

[Bakhesh]

I thought the plot was pretty decent. There was a fair amount of running around fighting, but then, that is what we wanted. I also thought Loki did a great job, and would put him up there with Magneto (think Magneto edges it as his motives are better). The aliens are just there as random cannon fodder, although they do allow for a nice lead in to a sequel

I watched it for a second time last night, and I think the only have one objection...
Captain America didn't really seem tough enough. He is supposed to be one of the best hand to hand combatants in the world, yet when he was fighting Loki, Loki was more than holding his own.

Being an asgardian, Loki would probably be a lot sturdier than Cap, but he isn't know as much of a hand to hand fighter. Cap should have been much faster than him, and been looking for weak points to exploit, but instead, he came across as a bit out of his depth and needed rescuing by Iron Man

The Chitari essentially are Skrulls in all but name. In the Ultimates, they are described as being known by many names across the galaxy, and both Skrull and Chitari are mentioned. IIRC Marvel had sold the rights to Skrulls to Fox when they sold them the Fantastic Four, so calling them the Chitari was just a way of sidestepping this.

[lawoot]

I don't think you're the real Doctor Doom.


Being an Evil Overlord means never having to say you're sorry.

So ... would Dr Doom forgetting to use the spoiler tag be a form of Monologuing? :)

Interesting - I saw it for the second time a couple of days ago and what struck me was that the anger was constantly seething under the surface, which I thought was an amazing performance.

Banner: "That's my secret. I'm ALWAYS angry."

[obfusciatrist]

Bummed to hear about the second tag after the complete credits. That definitely was not attached to the screening I attended last Monday.

[MrDibble]

I loved it - I think the best bit was that it nicely resolved the issue I had from the previews, which was what the hell the obviously underpowered Widow and Hawkeye were actually going to do in the final battle - turns out having a healthy mix of mooks* and heavies gives everyone something to do.

* in the Feng Shui sense, of course.

[Bakhesh]

I loved it - I think the best bit was that it nicely resolved the issue I had from the previews, which was what the hell the obviously underpowered Widow and Hawkeye were actually going to do in the final battle - turns out having a healthy mix of mooks* and heavies gives everyone something to do.

* in the Feng Shui sense, of course.

After the movie, I asked my nine year old nephew who his favourite Avenger was, and he said Hawkeye. You don't get higher praise than that.

[bienville]

Explanation of a particular plot point requested:

(Any number of the details here could be misrepresented by either my lack of understanding or by my faulty memory)
In the early stages of Loki laying the groundwork for his plan, he asks Barton (still under Loki's control) if there's anything he needs. Barton claims he needs an eye (I am quite certain I remember correctly that Barton was the one to introduce this element- not Loki himself).
Loki then shows up at the fancy shindig in Germany, struts through the party to grab one particular guy- it seemed this guy was not chosen at random. He puts a device over the guy's eye, the device seems to scan the eye and send a 3D copy of the eye to Barton at a remote location.
Loki then follows the crowd outside to entertain them with his Terence Stamp impression until Captain America, not getting the reference since he was on ice when that movie came out, shows up to bring Loki down.
I don't recall the scan of the eyeball thing ever coming up again.
Also, if Loki's victim indeed was not chosen at random who was he? I thought I saw a name tag that said "Erskine"- the same name as the scientist who made the supersoldier serum that produced Cap.

[Bakhesh]

Explanation of a particular plot point requested:

(Any number of the details here could be misrepresented by either my lack of understanding or by my faulty memory)
In the early stages of Loki laying the groundwork for his plan, he asks Barton (still under Loki's control) if there's anything he needs. Barton claims he needs an eye (I am quite certain I remember correctly that Barton was the one to introduce this element- not Loki himself).
Loki then shows up at the fancy shindig in Germany, struts through the party to grab one particular guy- it seemed this guy was not chosen at random. He puts a device over the guy's eye, the device seems to scan the eye and send a 3D copy of the eye to Barton at a remote location.
Loki then follows the crowd outside to entertain them with his Terence Stamp impression until Captain America, not getting the reference since he was on ice when that movie came out, shows up to bring Loki down.
I don't recall the scan of the eyeball thing ever coming up again.
Also, if Loki's victim indeed was not chosen at random who was he? I thought I saw a name tag that said "Erskine"- the same name as the scientist who made the supersoldier serum that produced Cap.

Barton had already broken into the place where the uridium was being held (needed to stabilise the tesseract). Loki's eyeball machine transmitted the image directly to Barton's eyeball machine, which was already plugged into the retina scanner on the safe, so it wasn't needed again after that.

[Alka Seltzer]

Saw it on Wednesday, it's one of the better popcorn movies I've seen.

[bienville]

Barton had already broken into the place where the uridium was being held (needed to stabilise the tesseract). Loki's eyeball machine transmitted the image directly to Barton's eyeball machine, which was already plugged into the retina scanner on the safe, so it wasn't needed again after that.


THANK YOU!
Exposition was rolling a little quickly for me on first viewing.

[Quimby]

OMG! I have't read the thread yet but I cannot understate how good this movie is. Great dialogue, great characters, great story, great effects, great great GREAT!

It lives up to all the expectations and exceeds them. I can't believe how easily it juggles so many characters and makes all of them seem like they are the star of the movie. I wanted to just stay in the theater and watch it again.

P.S. there are two scenes during the credits. One halfway through and one at the very end.

[Christopher Robin Davies]

Tiny nitpitck: Was I alone in noticing when, at one point, a character mentioned the need to heat the iridium to 170 Kelvin, stating that as if it were going to be particularly difficult? You could do that with a Bunsen burner. I might have misheard of course.

[Oakminster]

Saw it with the Druidess today. Lots of eye candy....massive 'splosions, nifty 3-D effects. Great action flick with a couple of great laughs mixed in. The Hulk has two of the best comedy bits in the movie. Tony Stark gets off a couple of one liners as well. Even Cap draws a chuckle at least once. Hawkeye was probably the least impressive Avenger, and they really didn't do much to establish his character in this movie or any of the lead-ins. Hulk looked great, much better than I've seen him look in any of the previous movies. Thor was a little underwhelming, but Tom Hiddleston nails Loki.

Very interesting cameo in the first post-credit scene....

(Probable spoiler for the Big Bad in a sequel in box, and some speculation)


Thanos is Loki's "Master" who provided the army for the assault. There is also some other entity involved, known only as "The Other". I'm wondering if that might be The Red Skull, who apparently went to Asgard at the end of Captain America.....



All in all, well worth the price of admission.

[mozchron]

I broke my no movie theater rule to see this today.

Very good dumb summer popcorn action explosion movie. I liked it a lot.

Needed more Hulk though for perfection.

[kenobi 65]

Tiny nitpitck: Was I alone in noticing when, at one point, a character mentioned the need to heat the iridium to 170 Kelvin, stating that as if it were going to be particularly difficult? You could do that with a Bunsen burner. I might have misheard of course.

I thought I heard a bigger number (1170 or something)...but 170 Kelvin wouldn't require a Bunsen burner, it'd require liquid oxygen or something -- it's -154 degrees Farenheit. :)

[Larry Borgia]

Awesome flick.

The action scenes were really stand out, not more of the same old same old. Whedon is underrated as a director of pure action. I really liked the last half hour of Serenity, as well as Buffy season finales 4 and 5, so this was no surprise to me. But it was great to see how he worked with a huge budget. It was great seeing how everybody fought together.

Can't really think of any flaws. First hour a little draggy maybe? But they needed to get all the characters together.

It was much better than all of the five pre-avengers movies, which ranged from "Good, but not great" to "OK" for me.

Like everybody I had a sad when Phil Coulson died. He was my favorite character from Iron Man and Thor, and then they humanized him even more.

Lot of Whedonesque dialog, but not too much. Good to see it didn't take itself seriously. Favorite:

"Phil!"
"Phil? His first name is agent."

Best comic book movie ever? I say yes.

[magnusblitz]

I also thought Loki did a great job, and would put him up there with Magneto (think Magneto edges it as his motives are better). The aliens are just there as random cannon fodder, although they do allow for a nice lead in to a sequel

I felt like Loki has multiple problems. One, he's not all that intimidating. For most of the movie he's just a guy with a staff. Occasionally he does a bit of trickstering with his images but that's it. His plan wasn't too amazing. He peaked early on in the movie with his speech to Black Widow and when he had Hawkeye under control.

Second, his motivations just kinda suck. He comes off like a petulant child. "I'm a king, waaah, why does no one respect me?" They even arguably lampshade this at the end. I just find it hard to take him seriously compared to other villains who come off as much more cold-blooded or with better motivations.

The Chitari essentially are Skrulls in all but name. In the Ultimates, they are described as being known by many names across the galaxy, and both Skrull and Chitari are mentioned. IIRC Marvel had sold the rights to Skrulls to Fox when they sold them the Fantastic Four, so calling them the Chitari was just a way of sidestepping this.

Makes sense, though in the movies they seem to lack their shape-changing powers, which is pretty much all that differentiates them. I think part of the problem is they get literally zero background or development beyond "bad guys invading Earth." So they give the heroes something to beat up on, but beyond that, were kinda lacking.

[RikWriter]

I saw it tonight in Imax 3D with my 15 year old son and Oh. My. God. What an awesome flick. Easily the best superhero movie ever made. Joss Whedon managed to do what I thought was impossible.

[diku]

Had a total blast. Since the child has come along we tend to only see the real big movies when they come out, so we decided to try it in 3-D since we'd only been to one other (Harry Potter). Great movie, builds slow, but still, a lot of fun. Probably more so if you've been wanting to see an Avengers movies ever since you've read comics. I'd love a real JLA film, but it'll never happen.

I really enjoyed it. And the 3-D was fine, I really don't find all the faults that others do. I enjoyed the effect, it wasn't over done, and a good chunk of the movie was fine without the glasses if they bothered you.

[MsWhatsit]

I saw it in 3D mostly because the friends I was with wanted to see it in 3D. It was OK, but I found the effect distracting in places. I'm seeing it in 2D on Sunday.

I thought this movie was amazing. Just fantastic, start to finish.

[Love Rhombus]

Incidentally, it's been suggested elsewhere that

Colson isn't dead, since we only have Fury's word for it, and he's not always truthful. And they needed that push. But that would kill the punch of it.

And I still have a few quibbles, even though I mostly loved it: Did Chris Evan's face seem too smooth, like CGI'd slightly? Perhaps it was just the 3D. And I'm still somewhat uncertain as to what Hawkeye brings to the big table.

That aside, it was great! I think Ruffalo was the best Hulk so far, hands down.

[Little Plastic Ninja]

Incidentally, it's been suggested elsewhere that

Colson isn't dead, since we only have Fury's word for it, and he's not always truthful. And they needed that push. But that would kill the punch of it.


Which is why

Whedon probably won't do it. Though maybe Coulson will come back as a JARVIS-type AI or something. It would be very, very Fury to lie about this. It would also be very Coulson to aid in that lie.
Incidentally, I LOVE how Cap just refuses to allow Tony to rationalize away Phil's death. And I loved the flash of actual feeling and emotion Tony has. You can't tell me those two things -- Phil's death and Steve's push for Tony to actually ACCEPT it -- weren't a big part of why he sacrificed himself at the end. And he did. Just because he didn't actually die doesn't mean he wasn't fully prepared to, doesn't mean he went with the intention of Getting The Job Done no matter the consequences.

[Dave Hartwick]

Best comic book movie ever? I say yes.It's right up there, but I'm thinking Watchmen and V for Vendetta top it on my personal list. It'll take a while to process.

[Dave Hartwick]

I just find it hard to take him seriously compared to other villains who come off as much more cold-blooded or with better motivations.

Makes sense, though in the movies they seem to lack their shape-changing powers, which is pretty much all that differentiates them. I think part of the problem is they get literally zero background or development beyond "bad guys invading Earth." So they give the heroes something to beat up on, but beyond that, were kinda lacking.

Tend to agree on Loki, although the conflict with Thor at the top of the Stark building highlighted both his motivation (screw everybody, I want revenge despite the cost) and his dastardliness stat (apparently there's no such word as "dastard") when he takes a family reconciliation moment as an opening to make a gut stab. Problematic, though, when you think about it, because the wound he inflicted was for nothing, really. Buttmonkey villain, I guess, especially in light of the (freaking awesome) "puny god" scene.

I kinda wish they would've just called the invaders "mooks". I can't even figure out how to spell them into Google. I didn't think it at the time, but they were lacking even back in the The Ultimates. Thinking back, their high point was when one told Cap to surrender and he delivers his famous, jingoistic, line.

[Love Rhombus]

Am I the only who who thought that, just for a moment, Thor got through to Loki? He goes bad again almost instantly, but juuuust for a second. (not sure if that's ambiguous enough to avoid spoiler tag.)

Also, Old German Guy was cool.

[Patty O'Furniture]

It was ok. I'll give it a solid B. The Hulk continues to disappoint me because they just can't seem to make it look like it's not a CGI character.

My only previous exposure to the Hulk was Bill Bixby's version so there may have been some recent developments I'm not aware of... but has it always been indestructible? Bullets bounced off it and the alien's energy weapons didn't seem to do anything at all.

[Khadaji]

When they first announced it, I had low expectations. IMO, one of the flaws of the X-Men movies is that they included too many heroes. Too many to do justice to each character, to allow them to shine. I figured that this movie would suffer from that flaw. I was wrong.

I thought it was great. In fact, I wonder if they have ruined the rest of the summer's movies for me - I'm not sure how they'll get one to top it.

I thought this was the best Hulk so far.

I was never a Gwyneth Paltrow fan until I saw her as Pepper Potts. She was still just freakin adorable.

Downey Jr.'s Iron Man is my favorite super hero character to hit the screen.

I can't recall ever seeing a movie in the theater more than once, but I am thinking of seeing this one again - maybe.

[kushiel]

Did anyone else feel like this was more of a long season finale episode of a TV show as opposed to a standalone movie? I mean, the story was thin even for superhero movies. It feels like the other Marvel movies were like regular TV show episode arcs introducing the characters and the Avengers was the big season finale where they all got together. There was no attempt to introduce anything, it just hopped right in assuming you know everything, just like a TV show would.

I did really like it! As a comedy popcorn flick, anyway! I almost want to see another director do a take on it but playing it straight as a dramatic movie. That's the only failing I found in it, there was no tension or fear that things wouldn't turn out all right.

So, in short, I enjoyed 2.5 hours of of random scenes built up around cast interactions!

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

I just saw it with the kids this afternoon and I thought it was great -- probably the best super hero movie I've seen. I agree that perhaps the plot was a wee bit thin, but I also think that it's just enough to hold everything together and that's really all it needed. The big showdown at the end was very well done and better than Captain America, I thought, as Captain America seemed to build all this good stuff at the beginning and then kind of devolve into a CGI slugfest at the end (a minor nitpick on my part, I really liked Captain America). I thought it worked better in the Avengers and it fit with the story and all.

Everyone got something really cool to do and I thought that was well done. The Hulk really stood out and the parts where he and Thor took down the dragon and then his "discussion" with Loki shortly thereafter were brilliant and hillarious but also served the character.

I'm also disapointed about Agent Caulson and I wish that he could have survived, but I also see how that's the one final punch to put everyone together. And do you expect anything less from Joss "The Fan Favorite Killin' Bastich" Whedon?

I also appreciated the part where everyone in the lab on the helicarrier are arguing. It was obvious to me that Loki's staff was influencing them, but it also seemed subtle and well played.

My only two nitpicks are minor, the first is that New York got pretty much destroyed in the climactic battle at the end. Like I said, this is a minor nitpick, but with CGI, I think it's a little too easy to raze a city for your story and it's done so many times that it may have been more interesting if they found a different way to do it. That being said, I thought the fight itslef worked for the story and it was really the only way to prove that the invading aliens were that serious of a threat.

The second nitpick is that all the Chitari just fall over when Iron Man blew up the mothership. The Avengers were pretty much finished beating the forces on Earth at that point, having them all keel over didn't do anything except wrap up the battle in a nice little bow so everyone can go get lunch. The could have had SHIELD round up the survivors or something else. Meh, again, that's minor.

I'm suprised that just about everyone in the theater was gone by the time the first stinger hit the screen at the end. I knew about it from upthread, but I still nearly (figuratively) crapped my pants when I saw it. The second one at the very end was also great, very very funny.

Did anyone else think Bruce Banner kind of acted like Lenard from BBT a bit?

[Quimby]

I was never a Gwyneth Paltrow fan until I saw her as Pepper Potts. She was still just freakin adorable.



I have a feeling she personally picked out those shortie shorts thinking, "Scarlett Johansson? Wait 'till they get a load of me!"

[olivesmarch4th]

I loved it. I thought the casting was fantastic. I was worried that Captain America would not be able to pull much weight in a team that included Thor and The Hulk, but they managed to make him look pretty badass. I didn't care for his character at all in Captain America but somehow this movie redeemed him. I liked the scenes that brought out his leadership ability.

Hawkeye and Black Widow were a wonderful surprise too. I'd never read the comics so I didn't know who the hell they were, but by the end of the movie you care about them just as much.

[Dewey Finn]

I saw it today. Did Hawkeye and Black Widow appear in any of the recent Marvel movies? I don't remember seeing them. And one nitpick. When they showed the flying aircraft carrier during the battle in Manhattan, it didn't appear to show the damage that previously occurred to it.

[Chronos]

I saw it today. Did Hawkeye and Black Widow appear in any of the recent Marvel movies? I don't remember seeing them.Black Widow is the hot chick (not Pepper Potts, the other one) in Iron Man 2. Hawkeye doesn't get as much screen time, but he's in Thor, one of the agents at the camp where Mjolnir landed-- "Someone tell me whether I'm supposed to shoot this guy, because I'm starting to root for him".

[magnusblitz]

It was ok. I'll give it a solid B. The Hulk continues to disappoint me because they just can't seem to make it look like it's not a CGI character.

My only previous exposure to the Hulk was Bill Bixby's version so there may have been some recent developments I'm not aware of... but has it always been indestructible? Bullets bounced off it and the alien's energy weapons didn't seem to do anything at all.

I really thought the Hulk, both Ruffalo and green CGI version, stole the show (along with Downey Jr., but that's unavoidable). But I can understand that he still looks "fake".

As far as I can remember, Hulk isn't really invincible, but just really hard to hurt/slow down. He also has a really strong healing factor, ala Wolverine. My own personal image would be the bullets penetrate him, but not much, and he just ignores them/heals them almost instantly. (Wouldn't surprise me though if bullets just bounced off him in the comics too though).

[Arabella Flynn]

Saw this in 3D last night. I thought it was a great popcorn flick, too. It's really difficult to write an ensemble action movie, especially when most of the cast has already had movies of their own, but I thought the balance was done very well. Everyone got a moment, everyone got at least one or two awesome lines, and everyone kept the same personalities we'd seen in the previous films.

One of my favorite bits was almost a subversion of what you see in a lot of band-of-misfits action films. It's when
Tony Stark is puttering around in the lab with Bruce Banner, and they have a surprisingly open talk about the incidents that made them each superheroes. I went in expecting that someone was going to talk Banner around into joining as an Avenger with the usual 'planet in danger, problem bigger than you, you have a duty to risk something you fear in order to fix it' spiel. But it was Tony, of all people, who got through to him with, "Yeah, it's not something I would have chosen either. But look at all this awesome you now own, don't you feel a need to see how much more awesome you can get if you do something with that?"

I pretty much knew as soon as Fury said that Stark wouldn't be the one to sacrifice himself for the team, that he'd end up doing just that as his 'character redemption' bit. It was an unexpected bonus that his philosophy that it was perfectly okay to accomplish things just for yourself, and just because you can, gave someone else their breakthrough.

[bienville]

Some thoughts on why Loki works as a villain in this film and why his motivations are adequate

Complaints in this Thread have been that Loki is too petty and whiny to be a terrifying supervillain. Maybe his evilness pales in comparison to other supervillains, but that's kinda what makes him just right for this movie.

NOTE: All my ideas here are based on the character Loki in the movies Thor and Avengers as portrayed by Tom Hiddleston (who is fucking brillaint!). I am not at all familiar with Loki's history or feats in the comic books.


Loki is less a psychopathic evil and more a sad self-hater with feelings of inadequacy. His big attempt at greatness was to craft a staged war on his homeworld for the specific purpose of setting himself up to be a great hero when finally defeating invaders who were really only his manipulated pawns.

This power grab is thwarted when his manipulation and treachery come to light. Even as his evil deeds are brought to light, he is still offered forgiveness from a family that loves him. The forgiveness is like poison to him, self-hater that he is, and he chooses banishment over the unbearable sting of humility and repentance.

Odin and Thor would accept him back in Asgard- it is precisely because his banishment is self-imposed that it is so irretractable. Reconciliation would render him subjugated (even if only in his own mind). Banishment in and of itself has a certain greatness to it and nourishes his delicate sense of his own importance.

The problem with banishment is that he needs somewhere to live.

No world could ever compare to Asgard. Loki's reverence for the supreme greatness of Asgard may well surpass the esteem even Odin and Thor hold for their homeworld because Loki is an outsider who wants in. He desperately wants to belong in Asgard yet feels rejected.

With the reverence he holds for Asgard, every other world presents pathetic consolation- such as to invoke his disdain.

Should he settle and make a life for himself on Earth? Surely not to live beside humans as an equal! Earth may be his best option for a home in exile, but if he is to live on Earth he will only accept that it is his place to be the planet's ruler. Humans are so far beneath him- if he is to make a home with them, it must be as their ruler.

This is why people are seeing so little conviction and gravitas in Loki:

He doesn't truly value his prize.

This is entirely character appropriate, and indeed what makes him- to me- far more interesting than any supervillain I have ever seen.


A human who wants to take over the Earth will be a terrifyingly psychopathic egotistical evil monster. This is someone who's sought prize is domination over everything he has ever known.

In contrast, for Loki to take over the Earth- he is (from his point of view) a boot trodding upon ants.

This is not Napoleon invading Russia. This is 19th Century Germany taking Tanganyika.


Loki even knows that is allies and benefactors have far greater goals. He is not working to betray and subjugate them when the time is right- he wants only this pathetic little world to rule as his own.

So, Loki's motivations and convictions are weak- like the motivations and convictions of the boot. Still, he is to be feared because- disinterested though he may be- he has great power and can therefore do great harm to humans as the boot will destroy ants.


As we are seeing a story of The Avengers first adventure as a team to fight evil, Loki is a formidable opponent yet is not overwhelming. Earth, until now, has been insignificant enough to not even appear on the radar of the universe's greatest evil forces. As Loki exposes Earth to the rest of the universe, as The Avengers' feats are put on display, other parties will become interested- parties that The Avengers would in no way be ready for without having a "practice" run with the lesser villain that we see in Loki.


My 2¢


P.S. I absolutely love Tom Hiddleston as an actor despite pretty much only knowing him as Loki- otherwise I have only seen him in Midnight in Paris and War Horse. His performances in Thor and The Avengers have been brilliant.

I joked upthread about his "Kneel before me" speech in the Germany scene being "Loki's Terrence Stamp Impression". I actually very much look forward to seeing Hiddleston as an older actor 30 years from now- I think we will look at him then the way we look at guys like Terrence Stamp, Christopher Lee, Ian McKellen, and Anthony Hopkins today.

I looked at his filmography to confirm that I have, indeed, seen him in as few movies as just the four I have seen. My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I read that, this year, we will get to see him as Hal/Henry V in Henry IV part 1, Henry IV part 2 AND Henry V!!!

IMDB Link for Henry V (2012), the page for which includes links for Henry IV Part 1 and Henry IV Part 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2150275/)

[drastic_quench]

Yeah, in the recent World War Hulk story, General Ross had to shoot him with adamantium bullets fired out of Gatling-type canons to break his skin. And in the last Hulk movie similar fire just indented his skin no more than a poke in the chest. He heals as fast or faster than Wolverine, too. When he got his eyeballs clawed out by X-23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-23) in a recent fight with the X-Men, he regrew them in minutes.

ETA: loved the movie, and I see no need to amend that statement with qualifiers like "for a popcorn movie" or "for brainless summer action." It was a really good movie by any bar. One of my favorite movies is There Will Be Blood, but of course no one ever has to say that it was great 'for a intense character study.'

[Love Rhombus]

bienville, that was an amazing post, and I salute you. Yes, it makes perfect sense.

[Sam Lowry]

I looked at his filmography to confirm that I have, indeed, seen him in as few movies as just the four I have seen. My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I read that, this year, we will get to see him as Hal/Henry V in Henry IV part 1, Henry IV part 2 AND Henry V!!!

IMDB Link for Henry V (2012), the page for which includes links for Henry IV Part 1 and Henry IV Part 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2150275/)

You might enjoy this (http://www.bestweekever.tv/2012-05-03/watch-loki-from-the-avengers-perform-the-sht-out-of-a-henry-v-monologue/) then.

[Chronos]

OK, just got back. Great movie, and it was especially amazing how all the characters managed to fit in and work. Hawkeye maybe got a bit shorted, but that's about all that can be said there-- Cap, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Black Widow, Fury, and Colson all had enough awesome that any one of them could have been the star.

I saw the 3D version, and it looked great. There was a credit for the 3D conversion, which surprised me: It was done a heck of a lot better than any prior conversion I've seen, and I thought it was natively 3D.

My favorite non-spoiler moment that hasn't been mentioned yet was when Rogers actually caught a cultural reference. And did the Hulk say something while fighting Loki? It sounded like he did, but everyone was laughing too hard for me to catch it.

And now, to re-read the thread, including spoilers.

[RandMcnally]

"There's only one god, and he doesn't dress like that." That totally sounded like something America would say.

I didn't like the Hulk cheap shotting Thor. Cheap laugh.

[Chronos]

OK, I see that others have already mentioned the Hulk-Loki line.

Another thing I like was the things left unsaid. For instance,

When Banner wakes up in the rubble and the security guard-guy tells him that he aimed away from people, it's a way of letting Banner know that he does still have human decency even while big and green. I expected him to comment about that, but he didn't.

And when Coulson is dying, he says "It wouldn't have worked without someone for them to...", and I was expecting Fury to finish the sentence, but again, he didn't. And I think in both cases it worked better for not being said explicitly. Whedon knows we're smart, we can put the pieces together ourselves.

To the people complaining about one specific scene that was particularly Whedonesque,
It's not like the guy has a trademark on the concept of killing off a likable character. And really, it's silly when you can go into a movie and know that nobody at all is going to die, because they're Good Guys.

Agent... Hill, I think her name was? did a good job, too. She didn't get nearly as much spotlight as the heroes, of course, but she was a good expository foil, her opening scene with her going from casual to action in a blink of an eye was great, and she was rather easy on the eyes, too (though obviously up against some tough competition in Scarlett Johannsen).

Oh, and one moment I was expecting and hoping for but didn't see: I was hoping we'd see Captain America lifting Mjolnir (possibly with difficulty, and with a comment about how heavy it is, but still doing it). It's not that it can only be lifted by Thor himself; it's that it can only be lifted by one who is worthy, and Steve Rogers is canonically one who is worthy.

[Oakminster]

And did the Hulk say something while fighting Loki? It sounded like he did, but everyone was laughing too hard for me to catch it.



"Puny god." or something like that.

[Little Plastic Ninja]

I looked at his filmography to confirm that I have, indeed, seen him in as few movies as just the four I have seen. My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I read that, this year, we will get to see him as Hal/Henry V in Henry IV part 1, Henry IV part 2 AND Henry V!!!

IMDB Link for Henry V (2012), the page for which includes links for Henry IV Part 1 and Henry IV Part 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2150275/)

Okay, this is maybe offtopic, but OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG. I didn't even know anyone was doing those, and to have him as Hal tells me whoever's making this is doing it so very right.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

That movie was all kinds of awesome! Loved every bit of it!

[Krokodil]

One scene that could've been better: When Steve Rogers is spoiling for a fight with Tony Stark on the HeliCarrier. With his kind-of puffy face and freshly-plucked eyebrows, he reminded me of Karofsky, the gay bully from Glee. His costume just looks blue and awkward from behind. I guess his weight and brows stabilized by the time they shot the big battle scenes.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Its not just the super heroes that are awesome. How about the freaking flying, stealthy aircraft carrier? That thing was so badass when it lifted out of the water and converted from ship to flying machine.

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

I'm not sure where my spouse got this, but we were talking about it last night. Apparently it's now SOP for at least some studios to open movies overseas so they can rake in the "OMG it''s an American action movie!" take before the US reviews come in. (He called it "avoiding the John Carter debacle.") I asked him why they'd do it with something like the Avengers that's guaranteed to do well, and he said they're doing them with all of them now.

As I said, take this with a grain of salt as I have no idea where he picked it up. But it kinda makes sense.

It may to be coincided with the country's holiday season. For example, in Singapore the movie opens on 1st May which is a public holiday.

[Quimby]

I am guessing opening internationally first has more to do with pirating than the fear of bad reviews.

[Lightnin']

Loved it, going to go see it a second time today. Between Avengers and Cabin In The Woods, it's a very good time to be a Whedon fan.

My favorite line has to be, "What's my secret? I'm ALWAYS angry."

[enalzi]

My favorite line has to be, "What's my secret? I'm ALWAYS angry."

Yep, I think that line got the most cheers in the entire movie.

[kushiel]

My 2¢


P.S. I absolutely love Tom Hiddleston as an actor despite pretty much only knowing him as Loki- otherwise I have only seen him in Midnight in Paris and War Horse. His performances in Thor and The Avengers have been brilliant.

I joked upthread about his "Kneel before me" speech in the Germany scene being "Loki's Terrence Stamp Impression". I actually very much look forward to seeing Hiddleston as an older actor 30 years from now- I think we will look at him then the way we look at guys like Terrence Stamp, Christopher Lee, Ian McKellen, and Anthony Hopkins today.

I looked at his filmography to confirm that I have, indeed, seen him in as few movies as just the four I have seen. My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I read that, this year, we will get to see him as Hal/Henry V in Henry IV part 1, Henry IV part 2 AND Henry V!!!

IMDB Link for Henry V (2012), the page for which includes links for Henry IV Part 1 and Henry IV Part 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2150275/)

TBH, I was sold when I found out Hiddleston auditioned because he was in a play with Kenneth Branaugh who told him to try out for his new movie, Thor. That much British has to be awesome!

[Infovore]

TBH, I was sold when I found out Hiddleston auditioned because he was in a play with Kenneth Branaugh who told him to try out for his new movie, Thor. That much British has to be awesome!

I loved him in the role because he reminded me a lot of one of my favorite actors, Mark Lindsay Chapman (circa the early 90s, when he played Dr. Arcane and completely stole the show on the cheesy old "Swamp Thing" TV series). If they'd made this movie 20 years ago I could easily have seen Chapman playing Loki.

[Ethilrist]

TBH, I was sold when I found out Hiddleston auditioned because he was in a play with Kenneth Branaugh who told him to try out for his new movie, Thor. That much British has to be awesome!
In Branagh's directorial voice-over for Thor, he gives out a huge amount of information about why he chose most of the people in the cast. He did an amazing job with that, even if he did spend a predictable amount of time shining up his own reputation.

And, I really loved the bit at the end with the Hulk
treating Loki like a gorilla with an ugly suitcase. The look on Loki's face afterwards is priceless.
I've always wanted to see that in a movie.

[Tangent]

Saw it last night--loved it!

I was especially surprised at how much I liked Black Widow in this. She was given some good character scenes (with Bruce and Loki) and her hand-to-hand fight scenes were well done. I was worried how two non-powered characters like Black Widow and Hawkeye would fit in with the others, but I think they were incorporated very well. Their inclusion, I would say, makes the story better by "humanizing" the team a bit. I was never worried about any harm coming to the big guys. Heck, Hulk and Thor are nigh-invulnerable. But I was never sure whether Black Widow or Hawkeye would be alive at the movie's end. And I thought Scarlett Johansson did pretty well--I've always found her acting to be kind of wooden in the past.

Current estimates are that The Avengers will have an opening weekend domestic box office of 200.3 million dollars! That smashes the record set by the last Harry Potter movie ($169M). The Avengers has also taken in over $440M in foreign markets.

[Yllaria]

Yep, I think that line got the most cheers in the entire movie.

And it explained all of those little secret
smiles all through the movie, which brought a wonderful sense of closure.

[Chronos]

I was especially surprised at how much I liked Black Widow in this. She was given some good character scenes (with Bruce and Loki) and her hand-to-hand fight scenes were well done. I was worried how two non-powered characters like Black Widow and Hawkeye would fit in with the others, but I think they were incorporated very well. Their inclusion, I would say, makes the story better by "humanizing" the team a bit. I was never worried about any harm coming to the big guys. Heck, Hulk and Thor are nigh-invulnerable. But I was never sure whether Black Widow or Hawkeye would be alive at the movie's end. And I thought Scarlett Johansson did pretty well--I've always found her acting to be kind of wooden in the past.Usually, with an actress as hot as Johansson, I have a hard time objectively judging her acting talent, since I'm too distracted just looking at her. Her scene with Loki, though, her acting shone through.

[WordMan]

Saw it. Enjoyed it. The craft is on the screen - Whedon's craft. I can see the film getting recognized.

[AuntiePam]

My oldest son insists that I see this movie. I don't like superhero movies or action movies or movies with lots of CGI, but I love Joss Whedon. Would I like this movie? The kid would be pleased that he recommended something I liked, our tastes are so different.

[Ethilrist]

Usually, with an actress as hot as Johansson, I have a hard time objectively judging her acting talent, since I'm too distracted just looking at her. Her scene with Loki, though, her acting shone through.
I think they down-graded the va-va-voom quality of her costume for this movie (possibly because she needed to be wearing more of a Standard Issue Shield outfit), which helped with that. I remember, in Favreau's voiceover for Iron Man 2, he said when she first showed up on set in the Black Widow costume, everything just kind of... ground to a halt. His voiceover just sort of trailed off in the middle of a sentence.

[CyclopticXander]

My oldest son insists that I see this movie. I don't like superhero movies or action movies or movies with lots of CGI, but I love Joss Whedon. Would I like this movie? The kid would be pleased that he recommended something I liked, our tastes are so different.

It's definitely Joss in the way he handles the humanity of the characters, the dialogue and interpersonal dynamics are just delicious.

It is all three of those things you don't like, but it's just about the most grounded such a thing an over the top thing can be. Besides, assuming you like Buffy, that's pretty much a Joss style superhero story.

You may be a little lost, but I can't imagine anyone flat out not liking this movie.

[Chimera]

Saw it today, the 3D version just because I didn't want to wait 30 minutes for the normal version.

Definitely buying this one when it hits blu-ray.

And a big HA HA to the nephew who couldn't be arsed to call me before the movie (see the May rant thread in the pit for full laughs at his expense).

[Son of a Rich]

Guess I'll have to wait a while to find out how a guy with bow and arrow can contribute to a group of super-powered people.

[MsWhatsit]

Guess I'll have to wait a while to find out how a guy with bow and arrow can contribute to a group of super-powered people.

Precisely.

[CyclopticXander]

Guess I'll have to wait a while to find out how a guy with bow and arrow can contribute to a group of super-powered people.

You will. Also a 120 pound woman with a pistol.

[Quercus alba]

"There's only one god, and he doesn't dress like that." That totally sounded like something America would say.

I didn't like the Hulk cheap shotting Thor. Cheap laugh.

I thought it was more of a "we got 'em" fist bump gone bad...
It worked for us. :D

...
My favorite non-spoiler moment that hasn't been mentioned yet was when Rogers actually caught a cultural reference. ...

...to a movie made in 1936! ;-)

[Lightnin']

I was especially surprised at how much I liked Black Widow in this.

One thing that impressed me was that Black Widow wasn't scared of any man... except Bruce. You could tell that the Hulk freakin' terrified her- most likely because she knew that he was the one man she couldn't control or kill.

And it explained all of those little secret
smiles all through the movie, which brought a wonderful sense of closure.

Yeah, I just watched it for the second time, and I picked up on so many things I missed the first time- and this was one. On the second viewing, it's obvious that he's not on a knife edge- he's on the other side, making it work for him. It even explains the final scene of the previous Hulk movie.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

In Branagh's directorial voice-over for Thor, he gives out a huge amount of information about why he chose most of the people in the cast. He did an amazing job with that, even if he did spend a predictable amount of time shining up his own reputation.

And, I really loved the bit at the end with the Hulk
treating Loki like a gorilla with an ugly suitcase. The look on Loki's face afterwards is priceless.
I've always wanted to see that in a movie.

That scene was so incredible how they made Loki's body contort like a ragdoll...and like you said, that look of utter shock on his face as he lay in that concrete trench created by his body being slammed over and over by Hulk was just amazingly funny.

Man I loved that movie. I felt the same way watching it as I did a child in the late 1970's watching the superheroes from the Hall Of Justice fighting against the Legion Of Doom.

You know what? That might not be a bad idea for the next movie for the Avengers to fight a coalition of bad guys instead of a single, super-powerful one. I guess the X-Men kind of already covered that ground, but I could see it working for an Avengers movie.

If you are reading and haven't gone and watched it yet...GO! Its so very well done.

[drastic_quench]

When Hulk and Thor were side by side punching aliens whilst riding atop an intergalactic cyborg dragon, I realized I had the goofiest look of 6-year-old wonderment on my face.

Scenes like that are why comic book movies exist. More please.

[Tangent]

When Hulk and Thor were side by side punching aliens whilst riding atop an intergalactic cyborg dragon, I realized I had the goofiest look of 6-year-old wonderment on my face.

Me too--I had a big gape-mouthed smile on my face during the whole final battle. It's been a long time since I've felt like that at the movies.

[Weedy]

My oldest son insists that I see this movie. I don't like superhero movies or action movies or movies with lots of CGI, but I love Joss Whedon. Would I like this movie? The kid would be pleased that he recommended something I liked, our tastes are so different.

This pretty much describes me as well. I only went to see this movie because I had free tickets to it. I did enjoy it, though. It's more of a summer blockbuster movie than it is a Joss Whedon movie, but if you are a fan you can definitely see his hand at work.

It's not a character movie, or anything, but the characters are there, and are interesting and likeable. There were enough of the trademark Joss dialogue and one-liners to make me happy. I appreciated the fact that while there was an awful lot of property damage, civilians tended not to die, just run around screaming until a superhero swooped in to save them. The violence is fairly non-threatening.

I'm glad I saw it, and if I'd paid for it, I would have felt I got my money's worth, even if it is not my favourite movie ever. If you really hate superhero movies and CGI, you probably won't like it, but if you are just meh about them, then the movie probably has enough other bits to make it watchable.

I have a question for those who have seen it, about the Hulk:
When David Banner first changes into the Hulk on the flying ship, he seems completely out of control, trying to kill Scarlett Johansen, and happily tearing the ship apart. But at the end of the movie, he leaps up to catch the falling Iron Man, and puts him safely on the ground. How did he have so much control and intelligence there when earlier he was mindlessly destructive?

[drastic_quench]

I have a question for those who have seen it, about the Hulk:
When David Banner first changes into the Hulk on the flying ship, he seems completely out of control, trying to kill Scarlett Johansen, and happily tearing the ship apart. But at the end of the movie, he leaps up to catch the falling Iron Man, and puts him safely on the ground. How did he have so much control and intelligence there when earlier he was mindlessly destructive?

BRUCE Banner, if you please. They changed that back for the old TV show either because they didn't care for the alliteration, or they thought Bruce sounded too gay. No one knows for sure. But it's always been Bruce in the comics. /nerdrage

Now,

Bruce's Hulk-out on the Helicarrier was a classic couldn't-help-it Hulk out. Either the fall, or the stress from Loki's staff poisoning the team and making them argumentative triggered it. This is why he's kind of the mindless rage monster here. And he simply attacks whatever angers him at the moment.

In the big battle, he Hulks-out by choice, and the movie implies that he then has more control over the Hulk's actions. Both types of transformations are straight from the comics. There's at least a dozen more variations on Hulk's mindset in the comics as well -- ranging from a 100% rational and cognizant Banner's mind in Hulk's body to a mindless engine of destruction.

[Elendil's Heir]

I was a walk-on extra for the movie's last night of filming in Cleveland, along with a buddy, so I'm especially psyched to see The Avengers. If all goes well, I'll even appear in it for more than a nanosecond!

Here's my post about it: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650920

[Crown Prince of Irony]

Just wanted to pile on and say I saw it this weekend with two of my kids, and I freaking loved it so much. I saw it in 3D, and even though it was converted rather than filmed natively in 3D, I came away very impressed, and glad I'd spent the extra $$$, which is more than I can say for a lot of 3D movies lately.

I can't believe I was nervous that Joss might not be able to pull this off - he did a masterful job. Here's hoping he has a cut of the profits in his contract.

[Woeg]

BRUCE Banner, if you please. They changed that back for the old TV show either because they didn't care for the alliteration, or they thought Bruce sounded too gay. No one knows for sure. But it's always been Bruce in the comics. /nerdrage

Now,

Bruce's Hulk-out on the Helicarrier was a classic couldn't-help-it Hulk out. Either the fall, or the stress from Loki's staff poisoning the team and making them argumentative triggered it. This is why he's kind of the mindless rage monster here. And he simply attacks whatever angers him at the moment.

In the big battle, he Hulks-out by choice, and the movie implies that he then has more control over the Hulk's actions. Both types of transformations are straight from the comics. There's at least a dozen more variations on Hulk's mindset in the comics as well -- ranging from a 100% rational and cognizant Banner's mind in Hulk's body to a mindless engine of destruction.

My take...
The first time that Banner hulks out and is an out of control rage monster, he seemed to be actively trying to fight becoming the beast...and that just gives the hulk more power in his rage. The second time, he doesn't fight the beast...he embraces him, and in doing so, has a lot more control over the Hulk's actions. This is all helped by Stark encouraging him to embrace his hulk side, telling him that he's a "man walking on tip-toes, when he should be strutting" and encouraging him to embrace his "terrible privilege".

[Love Rhombus]

Something that occurred to me: Thor mentions that Loki's plan. How did he find out what it was? Did Loki say something to him? (I tried to make it vague to avoid spoiler tags.) And yes, I probably could have watched another hour of those characters all argue and fight.


Though I'm STILL unsure of Hawkeye's usefullness on the team.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Two-and-a-half hours of pure eyegasm. The only thing I could pick on (and this is really reaching) is that Captain America's moves were very... un-superhero-like. Him jumping down from obstacles looked akin to the 50's superhero movies before they hired choreographers.

What got me the most about his movie was the humor. You had your pure slapstick moments like:Hulk punching Thor offscreen for no reason whatsoever.But then other comedic touches were much more subtle: The Avengers assemble on the street in New York, all arriving in their super-cool ways. Finally, here comes Bruce Banner putting in on a piece of crap motorcycle. Brilliantly funny.Really, the movie was pretty much flawless.

"How does he see the monitors on the left?"

"He turns his head."

[JohnT]

$200,000,000 opening weekend (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3438&p=.htm), breaking the record by $31 million (HP-DH2). More interestingly, the grosses were 2,500% more than the #2 movie, Think Like a Man.

[heathen earthling]

Is there an unofficial in-universe explanation for why none of the other superheroes living in the New York area (Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc.) showed up to help fight the aliens? I understand that the real reason is these characters belonging to different movie studios.

[GIGObuster]

What got me the most about his movie was the humor. You had your pure slapstick moments like:Hulk punching Thor offscreen for no reason whatsoever.


It seems that Hulk does remember (for a moment) the hits that Thor gave him with his hammer during the fight in flying carrier.

[Skammer]

One of my favorite bits of Whedon-esque dialogue that no one has mentioned:

Thor: Watch your tongue! He is my brother.
Black Widow: He killed 80 people in two days.
Thor: [beat] He's adopted.

[Maus Magill]

My only bit of confusion:

At the end Why do the aliens all stop fighting and shut down after Iron Man nukes the mothership?

Favorite bit:
"And Hulk? Smash."
"Grr"

[heathen earthling]

My only bit of confusion:

At the end Why do the aliens all stop fighting and shut down after Iron Man nukes the mothership?


Apparently the mothership was remotely controlling the entire alien force. It's a familiar sci-fi trope, The Phantom Menace ends in the same way.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Apparently the mothership was remotely controlling the entire alien force. It's a familiar sci-fi trope, The Phantom Menace ends in the same way.Ah-hah! I was trying to remember the one plothole I saw, and that was it.When redirecting the nuke, how did Tony Stark know that there would be a mothership on the other side of the portal, that a nuke would be able to destroy it, and that destroying it would shut down all of the soldiers? Did he find that out from Hawkeye, or is this one of those "Just go with it, okay?" moments?

[Larry Borgia]

Ah-hah! I was trying to remember the one plothole I saw, and that was it.When redirecting the nuke, how did Tony Stark know that there would be a mothership on the other side of the portal, that a nuke would be able to destroy it, and that destroying it would shut down all of the soldiers? Did he find that out from Hawkeye, or is this one of those "Just go with it, okay?" moments?He had to direct the nuke somewhere, and through the Portal was the best place for it. He didn't need to know that there was a ship there, just that it would kill a bunch of aliens and not explode in Manhattan. It was just luck it worked as well as it did. Also, it stands to reason the aliens had a base somewhere. He didn't know they did, but it was highly probable.

[CyclopticXander]

Though I'm STILL unsure of Hawkeye's usefullness on the team.

He's not necessarily going hand to hand with the most powerful baddies, but It doesn't hurt to be backed up by the best archer in the world. He can pick guys off from great distance, strategically place explosives and such, etc.

[John Bredin]

Ah-hah! I was trying to remember the one plothole I saw, and that was it.When redirecting the nuke, how did Tony Stark know that there would be a mothership on the other side of the portal, that a nuke would be able to destroy it, and that destroying it would shut down all of the soldiers? Did he find that out from Hawkeye, or is this one of those "Just go with it, okay?" moments?
I'm not sure he did. The nuclear missle had to go somewhere other than Manhattan before it blew up, and the other end of the portal was a good a spot as any. Actually, better than most because it was (1) much farther away than diverting the missile space-ward and (2) the enemy was coming from there. The cutting-the-puppet-strings effect was serendipity. :)
Damn, ninja-ed by Larry Borgia. :smack: ;)

[Soylent Juicy]

I'm certainly no comic-book fangirl but I really enjoyed this movie. Especially RDJ's Ironman, but that goes without saying.

My husband and I busted out laughing at:

"That man is playing Galaga!".....and then it shows the guy going back to playing it.

[Kimstu]

Saw it Friday and enjoyed it, thanks for the tip!

I never go to see a sci-fi/action movie these days unless it's been approved by the SDMB Nerd Squad, and you guys haven't let me down yet.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

I flippin loved it, thought it was amazing. My questions related to the ending:
When Iron Man redirects the missile into the portal, why does he go with it? It seems to me that, given his maneuverability, he could have directed it toward the portal, given it a friendly pat on its bottom, and flown away. It's not like nuclear missiles are designed to turn on a dime.

Also, it was weird to me that earth's gravity worked through the portal and pulled Iron Man back through the portal to earth, but maybe that's due to my insufficient understanding of portal physics :)

[Push You Down]

Two-and-a-half hours of pure eyegasm. The only thing I could pick on (and this is really reaching) is that Captain America's moves were very... un-superhero-like. Him jumping down from obstacles looked akin to the 50's superhero movies before they hired choreographers.


I actually appreciated how un-flashy Cap was.



"How does he see the monitors on the left?"

"He turns his head."

"That's exhausting."


Is there an unofficial in-universe explanation for why none of the other superheroes living in the New York area (Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc.) showed up to help fight the aliens? I understand that the real reason is these characters belonging to different movie studios.

Well it's really an easy answer-- they don't exist in the universe of the movies.
The only other hero character in the movie-verse at this point is War Machine. Who I was surprised didn't warrant a mention.

[Larry Borgia]

The only other hero character in the movie-verse at this point is War Machine. Who I was surprised didn't warrant a mention.
yeah, I get why he wasn't in for story reasons--The movie was already straining at finding room for all the characters--but he should have got something.

"Also, find Colonel Rhodes"
"He's unavailable, director Fury. He's still recovering after the Bhutan incident."

[Bakhesh]

yeah, I get why he wasn't in for story reasons--The movie was already straining at finding room for all the characters--but he should have got something.

"Also, find Colonel Rhodes"
"He's unavailable, director Fury. He's still recovering after the Bhutan incident."

Rumour is that there will be about 45 minutes worth of deleted scenes on the DVD. I wouldn't be surprised to see that as one of them

[Miller]

I flippin loved it, thought it was amazing. My questions related to the ending:
When Iron Man redirects the missile into the portal, why does he go with it? It seems to me that, given his maneuverability, he could have directed it toward the portal, given it a friendly pat on its bottom, and flown away. It's not like nuclear missiles are designed to turn on a dime.

Also, it was weird to me that earth's gravity worked through the portal and pulled Iron Man back through the portal to earth, but maybe that's due to my insufficient understanding of portal physics :)

I'm not sure what the actual turning ratio of a real-world nuclear missile is, but considering the one in the movie was launched by a plane that had just taken off from a flying aircraft carrier, I'm prepared to allow that they have nukes that are nimble enough they can use them for skywriting, if they wanted - and that Tony had to hang on to the thing for dear life to prevent it from pulling a U-turn and planting itself in the middle of Manhattan.

Once it was through the portal, presumably its guidance system shorted out - they're in another dimension, after all. I'd be surprised if it could figure out how to get back to New York from Floaty Rock World.

Well it's really an easy answer-- they don't exist in the universe of the movies.
The only other hero character in the movie-verse at this point is War Machine. Who I was surprised didn't warrant a mention.

I was surprised they didn't at least have a throw-away line to explain why War Machine wasn't on the scene, too - just have Fury bark, "Get Col. Rhodes to fly point on Airforce One!" or something.

But I think there are supposed to be more super characters in the world than the ones we see. At one point, Fury is explaining the logic behind forming a team like the Avengers, and he says something like, "There are more and more people like you [superheroes] in the world, and we need someone who can fight them." The Fantastic Four and Spiderman might not exist in this version of the Marvel universe, but it seems clear that there are other known super-powered people out there.

[Agent Foxtrot]

For all we know, Spidey was busy protecting Brooklyn from the onslaught.

[Larry Borgia]

Not having all the superheroes show up was kind of a thing from the Comics, IIRC. You'd have Galactus threatening to destroy the world, and only the Fantastic four opposing him. Where was spider-man or Iron man?

[YogSosoth]

This was such a great film! I especially loved all this little funny parts they threw in so it wouldn't have been a total serious slogfest in the last half hour.

[enalzi]

But I think there are supposed to be more super characters in the world than the ones we see. At one point, Fury is explaining the logic behind forming a team like the Avengers, and he says something like, "There are more and more people like you [superheroes] in the world, and we need someone who can fight them." The Fantastic Four and Spiderman might not exist in this version of the Marvel universe, but it seems clear that there are other known super-powered people out there.

I think the line was that they are finding more superpowered people in the world. Which makes sense if you think about it. For a long time, Captain America was the only superhero in this world, but in the last decade they've had Iron Man, The Hulk, and Thor, plus all the super baddies they've fought, show up. So this team is all they know of right now, but they're sure to find more.

[Christopher Robin Davies]

For all we know, Spidey was busy protecting Brooklyn from the onslaught.

I think Spider-Man lives in Manhattan. But yes if he exists in this universe he was probably just fighting aliens elsewhere in the city. Since this was the Avengers' first adventure he would have no reason to think "Alien armada is attacking the city, I had better make my way to Avengers Tower so I can get some backup."

[Agent Foxtrot]

I think Spider-Man lives in Manhattan. But yes if he exists in this universe he was probably just fighting aliens elsewhere in the city. Since this was the Avengers' first adventure he would have no reason to think "Alien armada is attacking the city, I had better make my way to Avengers Tower so I can get some backup."He is from Manhattan, but since the fight in The Avengers was happening in Manhattan, I was trying to give Spidey an alibi. :D

[YogSosoth]

Is there an unofficial in-universe explanation for why none of the other superheroes living in the New York area (Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc.) showed up to help fight the aliens? I understand that the real reason is these characters belonging to different movie studios.



Well it's really an easy answer-- they don't exist in the universe of the movies.
The only other hero character in the movie-verse at this point is War Machine. Who I was surprised didn't warrant a mention.

That's going to be tough to swallow, considering the ending and Thanos showing up in it. Just his existence alone brings in all kinds of questions about other heroes, unless they're going to do a severely redacted version of the Infinity Gauntlet for Avengers 2.

Another thing that I'm nitpicking about, with regards to the nuke. It blew up at exactly the right time, right when Iron Man launches it against the alien mothership. Considering that it was originally supposed to destroy the portal, that means the air force set its timer off by about 30 seconds! It should have blew up right when it got near the portal

[cmkeller]

Christopher Robin Davies:

I think Spider-Man lives in Manhattan.

I could swear he lives in Forest Hills, Queens. Or is Manhattan a known ret-con for the new Spidey film coming out this summer?

[Jack Batty]

I saw it twice this weekend. Hated it the first time; loved it the second time. Let me 'splain.

On Saturday I brought my daughter, neice and nephew out to see it in IMAX 3D. We'd all been anticipating this movie for a long time. Since about 1977 for me, but I digress.

When we got to the theater, the girl at the counter said something like, "It's about 95% sold out right now, so you may not get seats together, and they may be up front." Who cares, says I, it's The Avengers, here, please take my $60 fucking dollars for four tickets.

Now my first question is this: why do they even bother putting seats where we got our seats. We were indeed in the front row, all the way to one end. I had to crane my neck up to see the top of the screen, and tuck my chin to see the bottom of the scree, and everything on the right side of the screen may as well have been in the next county - in fact, I think it was.

From the angle we were at, the perpective was completely skewed and the 3D glasses didn't work on anything on the right side of the screen. It was like watching the movie through gauze over your eyes -- you could sort of make out what was going on, but you had to guess at a lot of it. I could tell I would really love the movie from the first 10 minutes, but I was completely put off from the experience. Lesson learned -- unless I can get a little further than 10 feet away from a 60 foot wide, 30 foot tall screen, I ain't going.

Then I paid $6 for a single ticket at my local movie house to see it again on Sunday. Loved it. Best superhero movie ever made, for my money.

I'm not sure if I'm willing to up the limit on my credit card so I can see it again at the IMAX ... but I might.

[obfusciatrist]

Loved it. On the ending

Am I wrong to doubt that nuclear missiles are launched with a timer that sets it off after X seconds regardless of where it happens to be when those seconds are up?

That seems like stupid design as opposed to "blow up when you get to where we told you to go."

[Scupper]

Another thing that I'm nitpicking about, with regards to the nuke. It blew up at exactly the right time, right when Iron Man launches it against the alien mothership. Considering that it was originally supposed to destroy the portal, that means the air force set its timer off by about 30 seconds! It should have blew up right when it got near the portal

The nuke had a timed detonator. It's possible Iron Man boosted its speed with his own and dragged it to the portal quicker, thus allowing a margin of time for it to reach the Chitauri(sp?) mothership.

[simster]

Loved it. On the ending

Am I wrong to doubt that nuclear missiles are launched with a timer that sets it off after X seconds regardless of where it happens to be when those seconds are up?

That seems like stupid design as opposed to "blow up when you get to where we told you to go."

I took the timeing (2:30 seconds to impact) to be more of a ETA and it was supposed to go off at a particular spot - or when it hit something - just happened to be that the something it hit was the enemy mothership.

might be a fanwank, but thats how I took it.

[Chronos]

Responding to a few points about the ending:

Quoth Miller:

Also, it was weird to me that earth's gravity worked through the portal and pulled Iron Man back through the portal to earth, but maybe that's due to my insufficient understanding of portal physicsMaybe, but portals are weird no matter what you do with them. It'd be even weirder if gravity didn't work through them.

As for the missile guidance, it was probably GPS-guided, and set to fly to a specific location, then blow up on impact. When Stark sees that his phone call to Potts has failed, he knows that he's out of reach of Earth satellites, and thus the missile's guidance system can't take it back.

What I don't understand is how that incapacitated Stark. He was through the portal and the portal closed before the blast front hit him. He was hit by the radiation, of course, but surely his armor is protected against that?

[AndrewL]

Another thing that I'm nitpicking about, with regards to the nuke. It blew up at exactly the right time, right when Iron Man launches it against the alien mothership. Considering that it was originally supposed to destroy the portal, that means the air force set its timer off by about 30 seconds! It should have blew up right when it got near the portal

It's unlikely to have been timer-detonated. More likely the warhead would have been set to initiate when the onboard guidance system determined it was at the preset target location. Presumably a nuke intended to wipe out an invading army would have been intended to go off while still in the air, ideally centered over the alien forces, so they would likely have set the point at being basically right under the portal opening. Which means it should have gone off anyway, as Iron Man was steering it into the portal.

What it would not do is go off on contact, that only happens with ground-penetrating weapons intended to take out hardened structures, which this wouldn't be. So there's no reason for it to have initiated when it hit the alien base - it should have just smashed harmlessly when it hit. So yeah. Shouldn't have worked as shown at all, unless they accidentally loaded a ground-penetrating weapon on the plane by accident.

[JThunder]

Stark's armor was running out of energy. There was a brief line to that effect.

[simster]

Responding to a few points about the ending:

Maybe, but portals are weird no matter what you do with them. It'd be even weirder if gravity didn't work through them.

As for the missile guidance, it was probably GPS-guided, and set to fly to a specific location, then blow up on impact. When Stark sees that his phone call to Potts has failed, he knows that he's out of reach of Earth satellites, and thus the missile's guidance system can't take it back.

What I don't understand is how that incapacitated Stark. He was through the portal and the portal closed before the blast front hit him. He was hit by the radiation, of course, but surely his armor is protected against that?

Jarvis had already warned him that his power sources were nearly drained - the effort drained what he had remaining.

I was really expecting them to re-use the '400 percent power' bit from the fight with Thor during the battle

[Push You Down]

That's going to be tough to swallow, considering the ending and Thanos showing up in it. Just his existence alone brings in all kinds of questions about other heroes, unless they're going to do a severely redacted version of the Infinity Gauntlet for Avengers 2.


....Not to sound snarky but... you know Thanos existed before the Infinity Gauntlet story right? Like for years and had multiple run-ins with the Avengers.
I actually think they will adapt the Infinity Gauntlet story to work with just the Avengers. No Silver Surfer, no Adam Warlock, no cosmic entities, no other heroes. Just the basics of the Gauntlet being used by Thanos to kill off half the universe.

[Push You Down]

Jarvis had already warned him that his power sources were nearly drained - the effort drained what he had remaining.

I was really expecting them to re-use the '400 percent power' bit from the fight with Thor during the battle



I expected that too. That was the other nugget that they dropped but never picked up again (the other being Hulk not being able to lift the hammer--I assumed it would come up later--either Hulk being deemed worthy of it or another character (Cap) being worthy.

[Scupper]

It's unlikely to have been timer-detonated.

But they explicitly state that it is, if I recall correctly.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

or another character (Cap) being worthy.

This was my one expectation going in. Now I don't know what to think!

[Agent Foxtrot]

Loved it. On the ending

Am I wrong to doubt that nuclear missiles are launched with a timer that sets it off after X seconds regardless of where it happens to be when those seconds are up?

That seems like stupid design as opposed to "blow up when you get to where we told you to go."I would imagine real nukes don't have a timer. Someone needs to flip a switch to detonate it, right?

[AndrewL]

But they explicitly state that it is, if I recall correctly.

Did they? I'll have to watch it again. In which case,

Iron Man probably gave it a push, so it arrived at the portal more quickly than it would have otherwise, and was at the alien floaty rock thing at just the right time. Because he's a genius and would have thought of that and planned the timing just right.

[Scupper]

Regarding issues with realism ... I had a small moment of "well that's ridiculous" in this movie, when an ostensibly "normal" character got thrown through a plate glass window and seemed pretty much unaffected.

Then I remembered that there was a Hulk, two gods, and a man who took some steroids and was thus able to survive being frozen in pack ice for 70-ish years in the film as well and I got back to enjoying it.

[YogSosoth]

....Not to sound snarky but... you know Thanos existed before the Infinity Gauntlet story right? Like for years and had multiple run-ins with the Avengers.
I actually think they will adapt the Infinity Gauntlet story to work with just the Avengers. No Silver Surfer, no Adam Warlock, no cosmic entities, no other heroes. Just the basics of the Gauntlet being used by Thanos to kill off half the universe.


Yeah, he's sorta immortal right? I don't know how long he's existed but apparently you could see the Infinity Gauntlet in Thor when they were walking in Odin's treasure room. Though that doesn't make sense either, since Thanos was the one who brought the gems together in a gauntlet. But either way, I'm excited about Avengers 2

[Chronos]

Regarding issues with realism ... I had a small moment of "well that's ridiculous" in this movie, when an ostensibly "normal" character got thrown through a plate glass window and seemed pretty much unaffected.If you're thinking of the same scene I am, he was doing it deliberately and so was able to control his impact, and he led with his feet. Yeah, he'd probably still be picking shards out of his arms, but in a battle of this scope, an injury like that would be close to inconsequential.

And I've reported 203 and 210 for spoilers-- I don't think we've been talking about that character outside the boxes.

[Woeg]

What I don't understand is how that incapacitated Stark. He was through the portal and the portal closed before the blast front hit him. He was hit by the radiation, of course, but surely his armor is protected against that?

When he found out the missle was launched, Tony directed Jarvis to divert all power to thrusters. He flew extra fast, caught up to the missle, and it looked like he was boosting its speed. Right as he passed over the heads of Thor and Cap, Tony said "Jarvis, save the rest for the turn." He then angled upwards towards the portal with a boost of power, flew through it. My WAG is that the suit just ran out of juice, hence everything shutting down. It took a bit for his personal arc reactor to come back on line. This is, of course, all fan-wankery ;)

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

And I've reported 203 and 210 for spoilers-- I don't think we've been talking about that character outside the boxes.

At this point, do we really need spoiler boxes? If someone hasn't seen the movie yet, can we just politely ask them to bugger off, so we can discuss it openly?

I guess I sort of accept Miller's explanation for my question.

Another minor criticism, which I'll spoiler just to be safe:
I loved Iron Man, as always, because RDJ is just playing himself, and he's hilarious. And The Hulk was amazing--the actor managed to convey the character's emotional tension in a way I'd never seen done before, and for the first time, I bought the character viscerally.

But Thor and Captain America just didn't do it for me. Granted, I haven't seen the origin stories for either, but I kinda figure I shouldn't have to: the characters should stand on their own. Captain America seemed to have good enough lines, some real poignancy about not catching references, punching the bags off the wall, etc. It may just be that the actor didn't convey enough of that character's "Man out of Time" schtick to convince me of his central tension.

And Thor? Meh: he came across as a prettyboy with hifalutin ethics. It seems to me that he needed some sort of clear flaw. The one that seemed most obvious to me is that he should have agreed on some basic level with Loki: he IS a helluva lot tougher than humanity, and it would've been great if, when he let his guard down, it was clear that he thinks of humans as children, worth protecting but not all that worthy of respect. As it was, I just didn't see much that was compelling about him.

The superheroes in the movie are three innately superstrong fighters and one superstrong fighter in armor. Without some clear character differences, they blend together--and Thor and Captain America were both just pretty bland fighter-types with funnylooking boomerangs. I would've preferred better characterization on both of them, either from the actors or from the script, or both.

[Jack Batty]

:... Captain America seemed to have good enough lines, some real poignancy about not catching references, punching the bags off the wall, etc. It may just be that the actor didn't convey enough of that character's "Man out of Time" schtick to convince me of his central tension.

Interesting note: in the trivia for the film at IMDB, they mention several scenes - like 45 minutes worth - that ended up on the cutting room floor. Most of those scenes were precisely what you're looking for about Cap not quite getting things in the 2000's. Apparently, you'll need to get the Blu-Ray when it comes out if you want to be fulfilled.

[Push You Down]

At this point, do we really need spoiler boxes? If someone hasn't seen the movie yet, can we just politely ask them to bugger off, so we can discuss it openly?

I guess I sort of accept Miller's explanation for my question.

Another minor criticism, which I'll spoiler just to be safe:
I loved Iron Man, as always, because RDJ is just playing himself, and he's hilarious. And The Hulk was amazing--the actor managed to convey the character's emotional tension in a way I'd never seen done before, and for the first time, I bought the character viscerally.

But Thor and Captain America just didn't do it for me. Granted, I haven't seen the origin stories for either, but I kinda figure I shouldn't have to: the characters should stand on their own. Captain America seemed to have good enough lines, some real poignancy about not catching references, punching the bags off the wall, etc. It may just be that the actor didn't convey enough of that character's "Man out of Time" schtick to convince me of his central tension.

And Thor? Meh: he came across as a prettyboy with hifalutin ethics. It seems to me that he needed some sort of clear flaw. The one that seemed most obvious to me is that he should have agreed on some basic level with Loki: he IS a helluva lot tougher than humanity, and it would've been great if, when he let his guard down, it was clear that he thinks of humans as children, worth protecting but not all that worthy of respect. As it was, I just didn't see much that was compelling about him.

The superheroes in the movie are three innately superstrong fighters and one superstrong fighter in armor. Without some clear character differences, they blend together--and Thor and Captain America were both just pretty bland fighter-types with funnylooking boomerangs. I would've preferred better characterization on both of them, either from the actors or from the script, or both.

Hmm, arguably what you wanted from Thor in this movie was handled in his solo movie. The whole reason he's sent to earth (powerless) is to learn humility.
You could say his flaw was that no matter what, he never really gave up on his brother (I guess that is true in the comics as well).

Apparently they filmed more "man out of time" stuff for Cap, but they cut it because, that's not what the movie was about. I think the punching bag frustration, the "Isn't the flag a little... old fashioned for today," and the "I get that reference!" bits were enough peppering of that idea. Anymore and it would have stolen too much focus. I also think the line "There's only one God and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that." was amazing. Of course Cap is going to react that way being told someone is "a god."

Although I do think they missed a great moment by not having Cap comment or react to Iron Man's attempted sacrifice at the end being similar to his own in his movie.

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

Anyone else find it amusing that they had the "Isn't the flag a little old fashioned" lines just before they jumped into Germany?

[Elendil's Heir]

...I never go to see a sci-fi/action movie these days unless it's been approved by the SDMB Nerd Squad, and you guys haven't let me down yet.

Hell, by now it's more like the SDMB Nerd Battalion.

[Chronos]

Quoth Left Hand of Dorkness:

At this point, do we really need spoiler boxes? If someone hasn't seen the movie yet, can we just politely ask them to bugger off, so we can discuss it openly?Perhaps, but we should at least tell them to bugger off before we open up with the spoilers.

Thor can't think of humans as inherently inferior, since the whole reason he's still involved with Earth at all is that he's fallen in love with a human. She's briefly mentioned in this film, when Fury reassures Thor that as soon as the fighting started she was relocated to an out-of-the-way and hopefully safe place.

And we don't see as much of Captain America as the man out of time, because for most of the movie, we're seeing him in his element. There's even a scene that highlights this, when they first land on the carrier and one of the other characters says that "all this", meaning the technology, must seem pretty strange to him, and Cap replies that it actually all seems pretty familiar (implicitly because it's all military doings). And of course the fighting is straightforward: You've got Us, and you've got Them, and you've got the innocent bystanders. That hasn't changed.

[simster]

Perhaps, but we should at least tell them to bugger off before we open up with the spoilers.

Thor can't think of humans as inherently inferior, since the whole reason he's still involved with Earth at all is that he's fallen in love with a human. She's briefly mentioned in this film, when Fury reassures Thor that as soon as the fighting started she was relocated to an out-of-the-way and hopefully safe place.

And we don't see as much of Captain America as the man out of time, because for most of the movie, we're seeing him in his element. There's even a scene that highlights this, when they first land on the carrier and one of the other characters says that "all this", meaning the technology, must seem pretty strange to him, and Cap replies that it actually all seems pretty familiar (implicitly because it's all military doings). And of course the fighting is straightforward: You've got Us, and you've got Them, and you've got the innocent bystanders. That hasn't changed.

Right - CA is perfect in his role as a Squad Commander/etc - he is the one person most capable of getting them fighting together as a unit and coordinating a battle plan. None of the others has ever had to work within the confines of a group or with others at all - its always been only them.

[Darth Sensitive]

I very much liked Hawkeye's quiver. The thumb controls on the bow changing the load on the arrows was a very nice touch. Seemed like how I would do it if I had a titanic special ops budget to spend on outfitting the world's best archer to be extra lethal.

Changing loadouts on the was very cool.

[thinksnow]

So, moving away from the nuke: the speed of the Hulks movements was fantastic. Beyond just the raw strength, the quickness was frightening. It shows that he is not just a dumb brute wall of muscle, but a terrifyingly quick and agile force to be reckoned with.

[Dumbguy]

The scene where Hulk sucker-punched Thor was better in 48 Hours.

[drastic_quench]

I very much liked Hawkeye's quiver. The thumb controls on the bow changing the load on the arrows was a very nice touch. Seemed like how I would do it if I had a titanic special ops budget to spend on outfitting the world's best archer to be extra lethal.

Changing loadouts on the was very cool.

As was the USB arrow.

[galen ubal]

The scene where Hulk sucker-punched Thor was better in 48 Hours.
I'm assuming that was a 'bro-punch' to the shoulder - not any sort of hostility, just an excess of high spirits.
Various thoughts:
Re: Iron Man and the nuke. I would say that he just happened to run out of power shortly after releasing the missile in the otherverse; and that it was the explosion that pushed him out - or possibly just pushing away from the missile in the right direction. He'd been deliberately draining his power to get the missile where he wanted it, and that's when and where he ran out.
Overall, an excellent movie; I've seen it three times, and each time I picked up something new.
*On the second go-round, when Banner first Hulks out - he lands on the floor, right where it's stenciled "Warning: Contents Under Pressure". I doubt that's a coincidence. :D
*Third time, towards the end where Tony and Pepper are looking at the wire frame of the tower. There's a quick flash of an area with Cap's shield beside it; then they pull back and you can see a Quinjet in the tower - preview of the Avenger's HQ, I'd guess.
Loved Loki - he'd make a great psychologist, if he weren't batshit crazy.

[drastic_quench]

I'm assuming that was a 'bro-punch' to the shoulder - not any sort of hostility, just an excess of high spirits.
Various thoughts:
Re: Iron Man and the nuke. I would say that he just happened to run out of power shortly after releasing the missile in the otherverse; and that it was the explosion that pushed him out - or possibly just pushing away from the missile in the right direction. He'd been deliberately draining his power to get the missile where he wanted it, and that's when and where he ran out.
Overall, an excellent movie; I've seen it three times, and each time I picked up something new.
*On the second go-round, when Banner first Hulks out - he lands on the floor, right where it's stenciled "Warning: Contents Under Pressure". I doubt that's a coincidence. :D
*Third time, towards the end where Tony and Pepper are looking at the wire frame of the tower. There's a quick flash of an area with Cap's shield beside it; then they pull back and you can see a Quinjet in the tower - preview of the Avenger's HQ, I'd guess.
Loved Loki - he'd make a great psychologist, if he weren't batshit crazy.

There's a floor for each Avenger with a little symbol. Hulk's is the radioactive one.

[Elendil's Heir]

Perhaps, but we should at least tell them to bugger off before we open up with the spoilers....

Here ya go: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=651035

[Rick]

Question:
When the Hulk/Banner hit the ground, who was the actor that played the janitor/caretaker that gave him the clothes?
he looks very familiar, but IMDB had no credit for anyone in that role.

[Lobohan]

Question:
When the Hulk/Banner hit the ground, who was the actor that played the janitor/caretaker that gave him the clothes?
he looks very familiar, but IMDB had no credit for anyone in that role.Harry Dean Stanton. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001765/

[Tangent]

Question:
When the Hulk/Banner hit the ground, who was the actor that played the janitor/caretaker that gave him the clothes?
he looks very familiar, but IMDB had no credit for anyone in that role.

Harry Dean Stanton (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001765/)

[Rick]

I thought it was him, but I wasn't sure. Thanks.

[amanset]

Did anyone pick up on the slightly odd line of Loki dialogue half way through the film....?

..when Loki calls Black Widow a 'mewling quim'? Seemed a bit out of place, seeing as quim is British slang for vagina. Caused a bit of sniggering in the cinema when he came out with this one.

Well, here in Sweden it was subtitled as "fitta" which is the literal translation of cunt. As in the baddest of the bad words. There was an audible gasp from the audience. Surprised me and Swedish isn't even my native language.

Oh and it may have been British slang once, but it is rarely (if ever) used these days.

[Bakhesh]

Well, here in Sweden it was subtitled as "fitta" which is the literal translation of cunt. As in the baddest of the bad words. There was an audible gasp from the audience. Surprised me and Swedish isn't even my native language.

Oh and it may have been British slang once, but it is rarely (if ever) used these days.

It's rarely used, but still common enough for everyone to know the word. (unless all my friends have an unusually extended swearing vocabulary)

[Quercus alba]

Right - CA is perfect in his role as a Squad Commander/etc - he is the one person most capable of getting them fighting together as a unit and coordinating a battle plan. None of the others has ever had to work within the confines of a group or with others at all - its always been only them.

Somewhat reinforced by his interactions with NYPD during the battle.

[amanset]

It's rarely used, but still common enough for everyone to know the word. (unless all my friends have an unusually extended swearing vocabulary)

I disagree and I'm (also?) British. I don't think I have ever heard it outside of this film.

[Quimby]

Re: quim

Several years ago I was signing up for some online service and the name Quimby was taken so I just wrote Quim and it gave me a message saying the name was indecent. I was like WTF (this was late 90s so pre Google era)? So I e-mailed their tech support and that guy had no idea what was up so he kicked it up and that guy had no idea so finally after a day or two they apparently found someone on their staff who recognized and he e-mails me, "It's kind of an obscure British curse word. It was in our database of blocked words but no one ever heard of it so we're just going to let you have it". Later on I found out what it meant. All I was doing was abbreviating...I had no idea.

And that was the only reason I recognized that line in The Avengers.

[Bakhesh]

Yep, I'm british too.

I've heard it before in things like Viz and on the TV show Bottom. Both of these have quite a lot of creative swearing in them, so maybe I was right about me and my friends having good anglo saxon vocabularies

[Jack Batty]

I could be wrong, but I believe Eddie Murphy may have dropped a quim-bomb in one of his stand-up specials.

[silenus]

I am well aware of the term, and I'm a 'Merkin. Of course, I also read a lot of Victorian porn.

[amanset]

Yep, I'm british too.

I've heard it before in things like Viz and on the TV show Bottom. Both of these have quite a lot of creative swearing in them, so maybe I was right about me and my friends having good anglo saxon vocabularies

So not exactly current then ;)

[MrDibble]

No need for spoilers on this, I think, as it's in a trailer...
And Thor? [snip] it would've been great if, when he let his guard down, it was clear that he thinks of humans as children, worth protecting but not all that worthy of respect.
Did you miss the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny"

[Ethilrist]

No need for spoilers on this, I think, as it's in a trailer...
Did you miss the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny"

Well, tiny is a purely objective observation... dude's huge.

[Christopher Robin Davies]

No need for spoilers on this, I think, as it's in a trailer...
Did you miss the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny"

I think Thor respects humanity in one sense and disrespects humanity in another. He believes that individual humans have dignity, that they have no duty to worship him or any other Asgardian, that neither he nor any other god have the right to force their will on humanity or to kill humans for yuks, and so forth.

He disrespects humanity in that he thinks human civilization on balance is foolish and warlike and apt to cause a lot of unnecessary suffering and thus should not be trusted with certain Asgardian magic/tech. It is hard to argue with him about that.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

No need for spoilers on this, I think, as it's in a trailer...
Did you miss the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny"I may have; as I said, I think the problem may have been as much or more with the actors as with the script.

Each of the heroes has strengths and a flaw:

Iron Man: strong, flies, missiles/obnoxious
Hulk: strong, jumps high/out of control
Thor: strong, flies, returning missile/arrogant?
Captain America: strong, flies, returning missile/anachronism

Iron Man and Hulk's flaws got central stage and were well-conveyed, in my opinion. Thor's and Captain America's flaws were, in contrast, not nearly so well-conveyed.

[BunnyTVS]

Third time, towards the end where Tony and Pepper are looking at the wire frame of the tower. There's a quick flash of an area with Cap's shield beside it; then they pull back and you can see a Quinjet in the tower[QUOTE=Bakhesh;15009421]Did anyone pick up on the slightly odd line of Loki dialogue half way through the film....?

..when Loki calls Black Widow a 'mewling quim'? Seemed a bit out of place, seeing as quim is British slang for vagina. Caused a bit of sniggering in the cinema when he came out with this one.

So... Does that mean Black Widow flies a quimjet?

Oh and the real reason for posting is due to a co-workers friend. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139505/Iron-Man-Mark-Pearson-builds-amazing-replica-suit-fibre-glass-cardboard.html?ITO=1490)

[Larry Borgia]

I may have; as I said, I think the problem may have been as much or more with the actors as with the script.

Each of the heroes has strengths and a flaw:

Iron Man: strong, flies, missiles/obnoxious
Hulk: strong, jumps high/out of control
Thor: strong, flies, returning missile/arrogant?
Captain America: strong, flies, returning missile/anachronism

Iron Man and Hulk's flaws got central stage and were well-conveyed, in my opinion. Thor's and Captain America's flaws were, in contrast, not nearly so well-conveyed.The problem is the huge cast. There simply wasn't eough time for a lot of character development. The first hour was already threatening to drag. fifteen minutes of Steve Rodgers fumbling with an iphone or staring nonplussed at a rock band would have wrecked the pace. The main point of the film was a bunch of people in bizarre costumes whaling on each other, not deep character study. I thought the movie had just the right amount of comic book wangst.

Also, Thor's arrogance was dealt with adequately in the Thor movie. (spoiler for Thor) Remember, he led an unprovoked attack on the frost giants, risking the fragile peace. For this Odin stripped him of his powers, denied him his kingship, and exiled him to earth. There he had to learn humility, finally being willing to sacrifice himself to stop the destruction of a small town. He returned to Asgard chastened and agreed Odin should retain the throne.

The main worry with Thor in the Avengers wasn't arrogance but that he had his own agenda, not hostile to earth, but not bound to it either.

Also, Captain America can't fly.

[Christopher Robin Davies]

The main worry with Thor in the Avengers wasn't arrogance but that he had his own agenda, not hostile to earth, but not bound to it either.



I think Thor's agenda was very much bound to earth. He wanted to take the cube away as much for the sake of humanity as for any other reason.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Also, Captain America can't fly.
He leapt out of an airplane without a parachute. Okay, maybe that's not exactly flying, but the man can FALL like nobody's business.

And I don't mean to be rude, but you're not going to persuade me that my opinion of the film's representation of Thor's or CA's flaws is incorrect. Those characters just felt flatter and less interesting than Hulk or Iron Man (or, for that matter, Black Widow or Fury). Again, it may well have been the actors who lack the chops of Ruffalo or Downey; I dunno exactly. All I know is that they came across as much less compelling characters.

[Lobohan]

He leapt out of an airplane without a parachute. Okay, maybe that's not exactly flying, but the man can FALL like nobody's business.He strapped on a parachute in that scene. When he told BW that, "There's only one God, ma'am. And I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that." he was clipping the harness around his chest.

[bienville]

He leapt out of an airplane without a parachute. Okay, maybe that's not exactly flying, but the man can FALL like nobody's business.

He was strapping himself into a parachute while Natasha was telling advising him against going out after Tony and Thor, as he responded with his "There's only one God" line.

The drag of the parachute added to having to then catch up on foot is the reason Thor and Iron Man got to have a nice lengthy battle before he showed up.

[galen ubal]

No need for spoilers on this, I think, as it's in a trailer...
Did you miss the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny"
Bear in mind, at that point he (and the others) are being influenced by Loki - he's stirring them all up, acting through the spear.