Handicapped parking placards: If you aren't disabled, would you ever use one?

[Ecamp1]

This is one of my biggest Pet peeves. I don't know why because I am by no means self-righteous, and I try not to be judgmental, but it really bugs me! I know this guy who received a handicap parking placard from his elderly mother and he uses it all the time. He is not disabled, but he is lazy! He justifies using it by claiming that there are plenty of HC spaces available and also claims that many disabled wheelchair users can just as easily wheel themselves as we can walk, so they don't need to be close to the store entrance. He uses the placard everyday and has no qualms about walking out of his car right in front of the entrance and not being disabled. I rode in his car once and I was mortified stepping out of the vehicle. I didn't want anyone to see that I wasn't disabled. I personally have never parked in a HC space. Would anyone use a HC placard if they were not disabled? Is this commonplace for non-disabled people to use HC parking spaces?

[Der Trihs]

Handicapped parking placards: If you aren't disabled, would you ever use one?No; that would be a very obnoxious thing to do at best.

[runner pat]

I have one and use it maybe 2-3 times a year. Just not needed that often.

[Hazle Weatherfield]

I used one when transporting my then-husband anywhere following his quadruple bypass surgery. Yep. Judgementals glaring at us the whole way. Disabilities are not always visible.

[listedmia]

I have accidentally parked in handicapped parking spaces for a few minutes while delivering pizza to businesses. I've never done it on purpose though. I just wasn't paying attention and I felt stupid when I came back to the car and realized it.

[Rachellelogram]

Neigh! I wouldn't, and haven't.
He uses the placard everyday and has no qualms about walking out of his car right in front of the entrance and not being disabled. I rode in his car once and I was mortified stepping out of the vehicle. I didn't want anyone to see that I wasn't disabled.
While I agree that this guy sounds like a total chodenugget, and think you should really report him if you get the chance, not all disabilities are visible (http://www.invisibledisabilities.org/educate/accessibleparking/dontjudgebyappearances/). So, whether or not a stranger "looks disabled" to you, that is not a necessary or sufficient way to determine whether they need their placard. Someone with a condition like, say, MS has good days and bad days. On a bad day, maybe they can't even drive at all. But on a good day, maybe they can make it through the grocery store without looking disabled. Or maybe someone with a bum knee can walk okay for short distances, but will be using a motorized cart once they get inside the store's entrance. You just never know, and you really shouldn't judge.

When I was in college, my boyfriend at the time was crossing the street (in a crosswalk) and got knocked down pretty badly by a car. He dealt with some persistent neurological issues afterward (and sporadic, intense back pain), and was issued a temporary 6-month placard while in recovery. He was able to drive and walk moderate distances, and didn't look disabled; still, his doctor said he should use it to minimize the amount of time he needed to recover. Unfortunately, he avoided using it most of the time, because he was afraid of being negatively judged for not looking "handicapped enough."

Just something to mull over. But again, that has nothing to do with this specific guy, who is a total douchebrush. If I were you, I'd not accept rides from him except in cases of dire emergency.

[flodnak]

I have, at times, borrowed my parents' car, which has a handicapped hang-tag in it because my dad has arthritis and a heart condition. Proud to say I have never used the hang-tag.

Not even when we went to an amusement park and handicapped parking was free while normal parking cost eight bucks. And the parking gods rewarded me for this by giving us the space right next to the parking lot tram stop :D

[TonySinclair]

I used one when transporting my then-husband anywhere following his quadruple bypass surgery. Yep. Judgementals glaring at us the whole way. Disabilities are not always visible.

I once had some vigilante asshole key my car when I parked in a handicap space at the mall, put up the placard, and strode briskly inside. When I got back five minutes later, pushing my 95-year old mother in her wheelchair (I had earlier left her and my daughter to browse in the mall while I ran an errand), my hood was scratched up and there was a very nasty note saying "don't do it again" under my wiper.

[Blackberry]

I never have. But if for some reason I was driving someone else's car that had a handicapped plate, and there were plenty of handicapped spots open, and no regular spots, and I really needed to park...well I'm not going to say I wouldn't seriously consider it. Very unlikely I'd ever be in that situation though.

[Cinnamon Imp]

Would anyone use a HC placard if they were not disabled?

Only if I was driving a disabled person!

Is this commonplace for non-disabled people to use HC parking spaces?

Yup. They seem to treat them as loading bay spaces, and park there when picking stuff up/dropping people off under the "But I'll only be a minute!" philosophy.

You should ask Ambivalid about his experiences, he regularly sees and interacts with rogue parkers.

[Broomstick]

I never have. But if for some reason I was driving someone else's car that had a handicapped plate, and there were plenty of handicapped spots open, and no regular spots, and I really needed to park...well I'm not going to say I wouldn't seriously consider it. Very unlikely I'd ever be in that situation though.
As my spouse is disabled and we have handicapped plates on the car I'm often in that position. And I can honestly say never, ever, have I ever taken advantage of that and parked in the handicapped spot no matter the weather, no matter how convenient, etc. Never. Never despite able-bodied passenger wanting me to, never despite the occasional mall busy-body asking me why I didn't or even that one ignoramus who thought a handicapped plate restricted the car to only handicapped spots!

Never.

Because I've also had to deal with having a handicapped person with me and being confronted by all the handicapped spots filled with vehicles that didn't have plates or hang tags.

I am not going to do that to someone else.

[Oakminster]

I've done it when driving the person who owned the tag. It was an elderly woman I was playing bridge with, who didn't like to drive at night, and used a walker. I would not park in a handicapped spot without someone that actually needed the spot in the vehicle with me.

I think the penalty for unauthorized parking in a handicapped spot should involve rendering the offender fully qualified to use such spots in the future.

[Iggy]

On my own, never. When driving my brother, I did.

My brother was a bit of a hard head about it. He had an AK amputation and significant respiratory difficulty due to cancer.

If all of the handicapped spaces were full he would drive to the far end of the parking lot out where he could park across two spaces. That gave him enough room to maneuver getting in and out of the car.

And on the way to the entrance he would glare at people getting back into cars in the handicapped spaces if the car had no plate or placard.

[Alessan]

I never have. But if for some reason I was driving someone else's car that had a handicapped plate, and there were plenty of handicapped spots open, and no regular spots, and I really needed to park...well I'm not going to say I wouldn't seriously consider it. Very unlikely I'd ever be in that situation though.

I once circled my MIL's car (with a placard) for 45 minutes, looking for a parking place - and there was a handicapped spot 50 meters from where I was going. I ended up parking about a mile away and walking. It's a matter of principle.

[Rick]

After having a tag when I was on crutches, I would never park in a handicapped space.
My wide uses a cane and I will sometimes pull up to a handicapped space and drop her off then go park elsewhere.

[Jennshark]

I did use disabled parking spots (sans a placard) a few times in 2010 when I had crippling flare-ups of calf-ankle tendonitis. I felt guilty about doing so, but there were a few times that I could barely walk, even with a cane, and had to haul groceries or a big sack of dog chow back to the car without assistance.

I think these few instances of using disabled parking were defensible. Prior to this I had never parked in a special space (and never will, unless I'm incapacitated).

[Mangetout]

I would never park in a space reserved for disabled drivers, either with or without a badge, even if I thought I could get away with it, or if it was just for 5 minutes, or if it was the last parking space available (in fact, especially if it was the last available, as that seems to make it even more of a dick move).

[Mr. Miskatonic]

One rather overzealous parking spot vigilante I had to stop when thought someone was using a stolen tag because the numbers on the tag didn't match the car's plates. I managed to point out that they don't have to match before he was about to do something stupid.

As to the person in the OP's post - he's the worst as far as I am concerned. Needs to have a leg chopped off so he actually does need the tag.

[Filbert]

I... sort of do, but only in one spot- here, if you're disabled, you can apply for a handicapped space to be marked on the street outside your house, and there's one on the street I park on.

After 2 years, I realised I'd never seen a car with a placard parked in that space, or indeed, anywhere on the whole street (there's often a car without a placard there, or parked half across it- and yes, I did basically check every day, as my job included driving for my disabled boss, and she'd been pointing out the sneak users, and the placards here tend to come with a permanant badge and a part you leave on the dash). I think the person who originally got the space marked moved away, but I doubt anyone's going to bother removing the paint, especially as it's starting to wear away. Occasionally, I do park there when it's the last space as space is incredibly tight here, and it's that or park a few hundred yards further away, though I always feel guilty, even though I'm certain it was a specific space for someone who no longer needs it. I wish they would remove them when no longer needed, so people don't start just blanket ignoring the markings.

I'd never use one in other circumstances though- I didn't when I was barely able to walk a few months back, because I didn't have a placard.

[Ecamp1]

Yes it is true that people who are truly disabled may not be obviously disabled. But if they genuinely have a disability then they should have a placard, and I really try not to judge people with placards, but because I KNOW this guy I know does NOT have a disability it really irks me! So he and others like him, along with those without placards ate real assholes in my opinion to use a HC spot. And after that one time of being in his car I never rode with him again. I have never, ever used a HC spot. Even when I was desperate.

[yoyodyne]

...also claims that many disabled wheelchair users can just as easily wheel themselves as we can walk, so they don't need to be close to the store entrance.They still need a larger than normal space to get in and out of the vehicle.

[Anaamika]

and also claims that many disabled wheelchair users can just as easily wheel themselves as we can walk

Wow! That's jerky!


No, I would not and never have. I've never even parked in a handicapped spot!

[Ecamp1]

They still need a larger than normal space to get in and out of the vehicle.

Yes and I have tried to explain that to this creep. But he gas no guilt or shame and continues to use HC spaces because he is lazy.

[Chefguy]

The only advantage I took with the placard for my MIL was to not have to feed the DC parking meters.

[Hbns]

I only use mom's handicapped parking placard when I go to the gym. :D

[Blackberry]

I once circled my MIL's car (with a placard) for 45 minutes, looking for a parking place - and there was a handicapped spot 50 meters from where I was going. I ended up parking about a mile away and walking. It's a matter of principle.

I would never do it if there was just one spot either, or a couple. But sometimes I see where there are a bunch of empty handicapped spots and those are the only open spots. In situations like that you can be reasonably sure you wouldn't be taking the space from someone who needs it. Even if I WAS driving a car with a handicapped tag, this would hardly ever come up, because I don't mind walking if it's far away, and I usually just avoid going places when parking is likely to be an issue, or take the bus. But say you're just going to the ATM for 3 minutes and there are 4 empty handicapped spots and 0 other spots and you're in a big hurry. In that case I really don't see the harm, and potentially causing harm is the only thing that makes it a bad thing to do.

[Ambivalid]

I once had some vigilante asshole key my car when I parked in a handicap space at the mall, put up the placard, and strode briskly inside. When I got back five minutes later, pushing my 95-year old mother in her wheelchair (I had earlier left her and my daughter to browse in the mall while I ran an errand), my hood was scratched up and there was a very nasty note saying "don't do it again" under my wiper.

Wasn't me! I promise! :eek:

[Loach]

July 2012

[Eva Luna]

I've been in the position to need a temp decal before (post-leg surgery), and a tthe rate things are going, I may need one again one of these days (severe post-traumatic arthritis in my left ankle - I am walking with a cane at the moment, but hopefully not for long this go-around), and so no way in Hell would I ever use one fraudulently.

[BottledBlondJeanie]

Back in the day (early 90s) I went to huge college that had almost no public parking or even permit parking for about a 2 mile radius around campus. There were vast tracts of mostly unoccupied handicapped spaces. Several acquaintances specialized in acquiring temp. placards and selling them for so much it paid for huge portions of the very not cheap tuition. Soooo tempting to do, but wrong.

Total parking ticket bill over three years? Somewhere around $5,000.

I will say that if I thought that illegal activity hampered actual handicapped individuals' ability to park, I would have put a stop to it. But we're talking 30 to 40 empty spaces in each parking lot even during peak class attendance time.

[shiftless]

I might use one if the alternative is walking a huge distance. For example, if the choice was use my mom's card and park next to a building I have to get to or walk 2 miles, I'd probably use the card. If ever single regular spot in a lot is full, I think the next person looking for a space should be allowed to use the handicapped spot, or the new-mother's spot, or at least the expectant mother's spot. Yes, I know that would be a pain to enforce.

We went to an event once where my sister and I both drove. I took my mom who has a handicap permit, so we parked in the absolute best spot, 20 feet from the front door. Tons of empty handicap spots in the area. My sister had to walk 2 miles from the overflow parking lot. She isn't handicapped but that is a whole lot of walking for her. What purpose does that serve?

[BottledBlondJeanie]

Oops, to clarify, having such a placard was occasionally tempting, not obtaining and selling the placards.

[snowthx]

What kind of vile excreasance would do such a thing?

I had to drive my dad's car (with handicapped license plates) periodically and if he was not with me I just took a non-handicapped spot. If it was still too far for him I would simply have him wait at the entrance and I would retrive the car and pick him up. That happened a few times where there were no available handicapped spaces. No biggie.

I can understand the vigilante attitude, but damaging somone's property is over the line. Damaging them in person would be preferrable.

[Mama Zappa]

My college roommate and I did, once, when we were driving her parents' car (placard for her grandmother) and there was no other parking whatsoever available where we were going. We were young and stupid, is my only excuse: nowadays we'd wait, or park a block away, or whatever.

Nowadays, no. I had a hard enough time when taking my mother places: she genuinely could not walk that far and we had a lot of instances where there were no spaces available. Annoying as hell. And my own recent experience with a broken bone - spaces were simply not available on several of the times I truly needed them.

[Mama Zappa]

I did use disabled parking spots (sans a placard) a few times in 2010 when I had crippling flare-ups of calf-ankle tendonitis. I felt guilty about doing so, but there were a few times that I could barely walk, even with a cane, and had to haul groceries or a big sack of dog chow back to the car without assistance.

I think these few instances of using disabled parking were defensible. Prior to this I had never parked in a special space (and never will, unless I'm incapacitated).
You were lucky you didn't get some very expensive parking tickets!

If it happens again, contact the doctor and ask for a temporary placard, for heaven's sake!!

[MadTheSwine]

The car I drive is registered to my dad and has the disabled tags on it.I have never parked in a spot reserved for the disabled and never will.IIRC,it is illegal(in Michigan) to use the spots if you aren't handicapped, even if you have the tags on the car you are driving.

[MadTheSwine]

I only use mom's handicapped parking placard when I go to the gym. :D

JamieMcGary is gonna hunt you down.

[Ambivalid]

I only use mom's handicapped parking placard when I go to the gym. :D

JamieMcGary is gonna hunt you down.

Imma silent assassin baby...(well, with some wd-40 I will be silent) :cool:

[Accidental Martyr]

I would never park in a handicapped spot. I think it's a terrible thing to do. I have a friend who uses his mother's handicap permit. She died over a year ago which makes it worse.

[Ambivalid]

Yes it is true that people who are truly disabled may not be obviously disabled. But if they genuinely have a disability then they should have a placard, and I really try not to judge people with placards, but because I KNOW this guy I know does NOT have a disability it really irks me! So he and others like him, along with those without placards ate real assholes in my opinion to use a HC spot. And after that one time of being in his car I never rode with him again. I have never, ever used a HC spot. Even when I was desperate.

I already posted this in another thread (http://www.freep.com/article/20120730/NEWS01/307300111/-1/7daysarchives/With-video-parking-lot-people-plenty-excuses-hidden-disabilities) but I figured it may be relevant here, too. You may find it interesting.

[Troppus]

I might use one if the alternative is walking a huge distance. For example, if the choice was use my mom's card and park next to a building I have to get to or walk 2 miles, I'd probably use the card. If ever single regular spot in a lot is full, I think the next person looking for a space should be allowed to use the handicapped spot, or the new-mother's spot, or at least the expectant mother's spot. Yes, I know that would be a pain to enforce.

We went to an event once where my sister and I both drove. I took my mom who has a handicap permit, so we parked in the absolute best spot, 20 feet from the front door. Tons of empty handicap spots in the area. My sister had to walk 2 miles from the overflow parking lot. She isn't handicapped but that is a whole lot of walking for her. What purpose does that serve?Is this entire post a joke?

[Ambivalid]

I might use one if the alternative is walking a huge distance. For example, if the choice was use my mom's card and park next to a building I have to get to or walk 2 miles, I'd probably use the card. If ever single regular spot in a lot is full, I think the next person looking for a space should be allowed to use the handicapped spot, or the new-mother's spot, or at least the expectant mother's spot. Yes, I know that would be a pain to enforce.

We went to an event once where my sister and I both drove. I took my mom who has a handicap permit, so we parked in the absolute best spot, 20 feet from the front door. Tons of empty handicap spots in the area. My sister had to walk 2 miles from the overflow parking lot. She isn't handicapped but that is a whole lot of walking for her. What purpose does that serve?

This is parody, right? :p

[Uncle Brother Walker]

Both my mother and her husband are elderly and have become disabled. I have only parked in a disabled spot when I drive my mother around. And while using her car.

I work at a place that makes copies for folks. One very elderly lady asked for my help making copies. She told me she got a ticket for parking in a HC spot without a placard. She had the "great idea" to make a copy of her (now deceased) husband's HC placard and claim that he had parked there and forgot to display his placard.

I looked at the placard and the ticket and the death certificate. The dates didn't match up. He had died three months before the ticket was issued. The placard was still valid for another four months.

I suggested to her to simply pay the ticket. IANAL, but I suggested to her that if she presented her case that her husband had parked there, it would only take a very little amount of examination to catch the details about the dates. I suggested that if she did this, she could potentially be charged with fraud, and maybe other charges. She dismissed my advice and made her copies anyway.

She left my store and I haven't seen her since. I don't know whether or not she had the brass cojones to go through with her plan.

[Troppus]

This is parody, right? :pIf not, username/post combo FTW!

[jackdavinci]

People who cheat the system are *morally* handicapped and therefore perhaps deserve their placard anyway.

[jackdavinci]

I do feel justified parking in the spot when helping my grandma into the doctors office, as long as I move the car after she has made it in.

I will say, having extra room on the side of the car is almost as helpful as being close. And nearly as important is having a well thought out drop off area.

[Ecamp1]

Ambivalid: I read your post. Wow! I had no idea that many people park in HC spaces. I never have. Crazy!

[Ecamp1]

Here is something to watch for those of you that think it's ok to park in a HC spot even if it's "Just 2 minutes". (A short from France with subtitles):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9EYh_Tr_Sc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Little Nemo]

The only reason I'd use a disabled parking space is if I was riding with a disabled person.

[Mama Zappa]

I do feel justified parking in the spot when helping my grandma into the doctors office, as long as I move the car after she has made it in.
....
Why move the car? You may be able-bodied, but you are, I presume, going to be helping Grandma out to the car after the appointment. You're using the permit for what it's intended for: either the driver is disabled, or the driver is assisting a disabled passenger.

That said, it *is* nice of you to move the car - freeing up a space for someone else who needs it (since presumably you can go back later and bring your car closer for grandma). One of the times I really needed to use my temporary permit was to go to the doctor - and all the spots were taken (quite probably with legal users, it being a hospital and all). I was fortunate enough to find a regular space not too far, but the hobble into the building was pretty damn unpleasant.

[Jack Batty]

My daughter is in a wheelchair, so I do use the placard every once in a while when she's with me at a store, or whatever. One time I had the placard, but I didn't have my daughter, but I did have my able-bodied son. He wanted me to use the placard, but I refused. Then I helped an old lady across the street and nursed a baby bird back to health.

Here's the thing though ... I don't really feel I even need it when I'm with my daughter. The only thing it does is guarantee me a parking spot - we don't really need to be right next to the door. I mean, if the parking lot has plenty of spots to choose from, it isn't a burden on my daughter to roll as far as I have to walk.

[aruvqan]

I have permanent handicapped plates on my car [and a hang tag for traveling when we rent a car a the destination] and my husband does not park in HC spots if I am not with him.

[Little Nemo]

Here's the thing though ... I don't really feel I even need it when I'm with my daughter. The only thing it does is guarantee me a parking spot - we don't really need to be right next to the door. I mean, if the parking lot has plenty of spots to choose from, it isn't a burden on my daughter to roll as far as I have to walk.A lot of people have the mistaken belief that the point of a handicapped parking space is its proximity to the building's entrance. That's a nice bonus but the real distinguishing feature of a handicapped parking space is the no-parking space (http://www.alphabetsigns.com/merchant2/graphics/00000041/st02artcl1.jpg) adjacent to it. This gives people in wheelchairs room to get in and out of their vehicle that they wouldn't have in a regular parking space.

[oreally]

No; that would be a very obnoxious thing to do at best.

Welcome to the 21st century. Now get out of my way! (PS anyone else reminded of Dennis Leary's "asshole" song?)

I have happily called the police more than once when I have seen a car parking/parked in a handicapped spot and they don't have the mandatory plate or placard.

More generally, I am amazed at how big of a deal people make at having to park a little farther away. I see people driving round and round looking for a closer space when there are plenty farther out. God forbid you should actually get a little exercise and require an extra whole 30 seconds to get to the store. :smack:

[Broomstick]

A lot of people have the mistaken belief that the point of a handicapped parking space is its proximity to the building's entrance. That's a nice bonus but the real distinguishing feature of a handicapped parking space is the no-parking space (http://www.alphabetsigns.com/merchant2/graphics/00000041/st02artcl1.jpg) adjacent to it. This gives people in wheelchairs room to get in and out of their vehicle that they wouldn't have in a regular parking space.
Not all handicapped parking spaces have a "no-parking" space next to them. In fact, the majority don't. Yes, the no-parking space is very handy for wheelchairs but not everyone handicapped uses a wheelchair. Proximity really is a big factor in their placement and a big part of their utility.

[Hbns]

Imma silent assassin baby...(well, with some wd-40 I will be silent) :cool:

:D

[Little Nemo]

Not all handicapped parking spaces have a "no-parking" space next to them. In fact, the majority don't. Yes, the no-parking space is very handy for wheelchairs but not everyone handicapped uses a wheelchair. Proximity really is a big factor in their placement and a big part of their utility.They're supposed to. It's part of the ADA. (And the ADA also specifies proximity to entrances.)

But, as we've seen in other threads, enforcing disabled parking laws aren't always a priority.

[Little Nemo]

Interesting side-not on this issue. New York City, as is often the case, believes it's the center of the universe and issues its own disabled parking placards. And these are the only placards that are valid in New York City.

Disabled people from other parts of New York or other states have been ticketed for using a disabled parking space in NYC without having a NYC placard - even when they have their valid placard displayed. NYC is being sued for discrimination by some of these people for violating the ADA.

[Broomstick]

They're supposed to. It's part of the ADA. (And the ADA also specifies proximity to entrances.)
There was some grandfathering involved. I also think there are some exceptions for extremely small lots but hey, don't quote me on that. All I can say is that not all of them have the extra space.

But, as we've seen in other threads, enforcing disabled parking laws aren't always a priority.
True.

[Rick]

True.
I exception would be Irvine Ca.
The chief of police had lunch with a friend who is in a wheelchair. The subject came up and the friend mentioned about the level of abuse. The chief didn't believe him but promised to look into it.
He send out a couple of guys to stake out a mall. They wrote a ton of tickets and confiscated a bunch of placards.
Now they have a regular patrol.

[Ambivalid]

There was some grandfathering involved. I also think there are some exceptions for extremely small lots but hey, don't quote me on that. All I can say is that not all of them have the extra space.

The "grandfathering clause"; referring to the ability of establishments to circumvent certain ADA-requirments if they can show that complying with such a requirement would present an unfair (not sure what the technical term is here) financial burden on that business; is usually only claimed for restroom non-compliance. Perhaps a very tiny lot might qualify for such a waiver but other than that, I can't imagine what "grandfather" clause would be applicable to parking lot renovations.

[Ambivalid]

Here's the thing though ... I don't really feel I even need it when I'm with my daughter. The only thing it does is guarantee me a parking spot - we don't really need to be right next to the door. I mean, if the parking lot has plenty of spots to choose from, it isn't a burden on my daughter to roll as far as I have to walk.

See, this is straight up shocking: this type of comment coming from the parent of a wheelchair user?! How do you not understand the necessity of the extra space provided in the handicap spots? Or do you understand that and are just saying that your daughter doesn't need it? And if this is so, how is this possible? :confused:

[doreen]

There was some grandfathering involved. I also think there are some exceptions for extremely small lots but hey, don't quote me on that. All I can say is that not all of them have the extra space.


I've seen it ,too. In very small lots. Because in parking lots with fewer than 25 spaces, only one handicapped space is necessary. It's true it must have the 96 inch access aisle for a wheelchair lift or ramp , but so far as I know, there's no law prohibiting the parking lot owner from setting aside additional spaces usable by handicapped people who don't use wheelchairs.

That said, the required space next to a regular handicapped parking space is a 60 inch wide access aisle which can be shared by two spaces. It's only the van-accessible spaces that need 96 inches, and the parking lot would have to have over 400 spaces before two of them are required

[doreen]

See, this is straight up shocking: this type of comment coming from the parent of a wheelchair user?! How do you not understand the necessity of the extra space provided in the handicap spots? Or do you understand that and are just saying that your daughter doesn't need it? And if this is so, how is this possible? :confused:

I do it all the time. I never park in a handicapped space when I drive my father and his wheelchair. I don't need the extra space for the wheelchair lift or ramp because I don't have one. I've never driven him somewhere where the parking lot was so full and the cars were parked so close together that I couldn't find a spot somewhere with plenty of room to get him from the car to wheelchair and back. It's not really any harder for me to push his wheelchair than it is for me to walk and when he was still able to use a motorized wheelchair, it wasn't difficult for him to roll himself that distance. I also don't park in a handicapped space when I'm driving my mother (whose knees are so bad she has a NYC placard). I drop her off at the entrance and then go park. I do it specifically because I know other people will need those spaces, whether it is the person who does have a wheelchair lift ,or the person with bad knees who drove himself.

Of course, I don't drive either one of them to the mall on Black Friday- that would be a different parking situation than the ones I find myself in.

[oreally]

I exception would be Irvine Ca.
The chief of police had lunch with a friend who is in a wheelchair. The subject came up and the friend mentioned about the level of abuse. The chief didn't believe him but promised to look into it.
He send out a couple of guys to stake out a mall. They wrote a ton of tickets and confiscated a bunch of placards.
Now they have a regular patrol.

A LOT more cities and towns need this approach.

[Shakes]

No. The whole concept of of parking as close to the building is just stupid. (in most cases.)

So great, you found a close parking spot to save yourself a few steps to get to the Big LotTM store.

Well, guess what you're going to be doing once you get inside that store? WALKING!! Way more than you will from parking to the building itself.

That said, some establishments go way overboard with the HC spaces. Do we really need 20 spots reserved in front of that Walmart? It seems a little excessive to me.

Not that I care. Jus' say'n.

[MannyL]

I am going to take some heat for this but I've used someone else's placard in the past.

Prior to my surgery I weighed over 350 lbs and walking long distances was difficult for me. If I was going to a concert at certain locations and I knew I would not arrive a few hours before the show I borrowed the placard. This allowed me to park in a closer lot which made things much easier for me. This lot was not just for placard holders but people who had VIP tickets. Also the spaces in the lot were not marked handicapped.

[Ambivalid]

I am going to take some heat for this but I've used someone else's placard in the past...to park in a closer lot which made things much easier for me. This lot was not just for placard holders but people who had VIP tickets. Also the spaces in the lot were not marked handicapped.

So this was a parking lot which had no official legal enforceability, but rather just an area "cordoned off" by concert organizers? So you weren't really abusing the placard, in the official sense. You weren't depriving a handicapped person of their legally-established rightful parking place. I mean, yes, you were parking in an area that was meant to be reserved for those needing close proximity as well as be reserved for those who pay a little more for their tickets. I'd say these organizers were the ones really letting the ball drop here by NOT marking the appropriate spaces handicapped. I'd say you were being more of a cheap ass then an asshole.

[Rick]

No. The whole concept of of parking as close to the building is just stupid. (in most cases.)

So great, you found a close parking spot to save yourself a few steps to get to the Big LotTM store.

Well, guess what you're going to be doing once you get inside that store? WALKING!! Way more than you will from parking to the building itself.

That said, some establishments go way overboard with the HC spaces. Do we really need 20 spots reserved in front of that Walmart? It seems a little excessive to me.

Not that I care. Jus' say'n.
When I was on crutches (and now for my wife using a cane) there is a definite maximum distance that can be traveled before pain/agony sets in and you are DONE for the day.
Our lawmakers have made laws that allow handicapped people to maximize the distance they can travel inside the facility by giving them parking spaces near the entrance.
It's the law and a good idea. Deal with it.

[Ecamp1]

When I was on crutches (and now for my wife using a cane) there is a definite maximum distance that can be traveled before pain/agony sets in and you are DONE for the day.
Our lawmakers have made laws that allow handicapped people to maximize the distance they can travel inside the facility by giving them parking spaces near the entrance.
It's the law and a good idea. Deal with it.

I love this! And completely agree! Everyone should spend one day in a wheelchair or having to use crutches (maybe instill pain with tazers every time they attempted to use their legs)- they would all have very different opinions about HC spaces.

[Shakes]

When I was on crutches (and now for my wife using a cane) there is a definite maximum distance that can be traveled before pain/agony sets in and you are DONE for the day.
Our lawmakers have made laws that allow handicapped people to maximize the distance they can travel inside the facility by giving them parking spaces near the entrance.
It's the law and a good idea. Deal with it.

I wasn't speaking to HC people Rick. I was speaking to able bodied people who feel the need to park as close to the store as possible. Just to save a few steps. Their logic is ridiculous.

[Jack Batty]

Here's the thing though ... I don't really feel I even need it when I'm with my daughter. The only thing it does is guarantee me a parking spot - we don't really need to be right next to the door. I mean, if the parking lot has plenty of spots to choose from, it isn't a burden on my daughter to roll as far as I have to walk.

See, this is straight up shocking: this type of comment coming from the parent of a wheelchair user?! How do you not understand the necessity of the extra space provided in the handicap spots? Or do you understand that and are just saying that your daughter doesn't need it? And if this is so, how is this possible? :confused:

Oddly, I do understand that I was speaking only of my daughter, as you apparently don't since you've taken the time to hobble off you high-horse and give me shit about something I never even said.

In fact, what the fuck are you going on about in the first place? I said I didn't feel the need to use the placard to park in a handicap spot because my daughter and I are perfectly capable of using a normal spot. I get her chair out of the trunk, she hops in and away we go. I said absolutely nothing about the need for the spaces.

I'm sorry if I don't wail and nash my teeth and give every able-bodied asshole the hairy eyeball for not throwing themselves at my feet and fawning all over us like you constantly do, but then different strokes, huh?

[Broomstick]

The handicapped person always has the option to NOT use the parking space. When my spouse is doing well and feels up to a little more walking than usual he sometimes opts for a regular space. Nothing wrong with that. If someone on artificial legs or in a wheelchair opts for the same for whatever reason no problem there either.

However, the spaces really should be left for those who actually NEED them, that is, have a legitimate call on the space. In the last years of her life my late mother might have appeared to be able to walk with no problem but she absolutely needed to be close to entrances and minimize walking due to her heart being the problem (her legs were fine).

[Ellen Cherry]

Oddly, I do understand that I was speaking only of my daughter, as you apparently don't since you've taken the time to hobble off you high-horse and give me shit about something I never even said.

In fact, what the fuck are you going on about in the first place? I said I didn't feel the need to use the placard to park in a handicap spot because my daughter and I are perfectly capable of using a normal spot. I get her chair out of the trunk, she hops in and away we go. I said absolutely nothing about the need for the spaces.

I'm sorry if I don't wail and nash my teeth and give every able-bodied asshole the hairy eyeball for not throwing themselves at my feet and fawning all over us like you constantly do, but then different strokes, huh?

Jack, you're being insulting here. Please restrain yourself. Ambivalid, you're being a little shrill and, while not against the rules, you might consider dialing back as well.

[Jack Batty]

Sorry for being insulting, but I don't take kindly to someone claiming I don't understand my own daughter's needs because he claims to be the ultimate authority on the matter.

[Ambivalid]

Sorry for being insulting, but I don't take kindly to someone claiming I don't understand my own daughter's needs because he claims to be the ultimate authority on the matter.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you didn't understand your own daughter's needs; such a thing would be very insulting, I understand. My bad.

[Jack Batty]

Cool. Truce.

[Enuma Elish]

A couple of weeks ago, I drove my Mom to her eye surgery checkup at her local medical center. We used her car. I pulled up to the front of the building and as the porter opened Mom's door to help her out, he noticed she had a handicapped placard and told me to hang it off the rear-view mirror and park in the closest handicapped spot.

So I did.

So there!

I felt a little dirty, but at least we were parked close enough to the front so Mom could walk to the car when her appointment was done instead of waiting for me to bring the car around.

If I was driving Mom's car without her in it, I would never dream of using her handicapped placard.

[tesseract]

My mom has a placard (very bad knees) that I would never dream of using if I were not driving her. One thing that kinda bugs me a little bit is that when we drive up, she's so excited that she has the placard (probably from years of walking with pain in her knees) that she almost insists we take the HC spot, even when there are non-HC spots basically the same distance from the door. She doesn't need the extra room, so I always tell her that if a non-HC spot is just as good, we should take that one and leave the HC spot for a wheelchair user who might need more room. (I'm not some evil daughter who would suggest she walk farther just to leave the spots open. It's only when other spots are just as close.) To her credit, she usually agrees with me, but it's funny. It's like she has the placard and she wants to USE it.

[Gatopescado]

Hell yes. But only at one place, under very specific circumstances.

I actually have one, tucked away, but haven't pulled it out yet.

[antonio107]

Yeah once.

My step mother was in declining health (she eventually died of Alzheimer's), but she got a handicap license when she was still driving and not walking so good. I used her car to pick up some stuff at Staples one night. I was 17, I was a stupid kid, and trying to impress my friend I was with, by being an asshole. So I parked in the handicap spot as I went in and did my shopping.

I'd mention the mitigating factors were that it was 9 at night or so, and the lot was empty. Or maybe that's not mitigating, because I could have parked ANYWHERE ELSE there. Even if it was just for a little bit, I still feel guilty for being such a prick.


Should someone feel guilty for parking in the non-legally binding "Expectant Mothers" spots they put at the front? I don't do it, but my mom does.

[Disgruntled Penguin]

I once was riding with my sister and she pulled into a handicapped spot using her deceased husbands handicapped sign. I told her I'd call the police myself if she didn't move and I wasn't joking. She was a tad miffed but she got over it.

I guess that means you can put me down for a no on this one.

[Blackberry]

Should someone feel guilty for parking in the non-legally binding "Expectant Mothers" spots they put at the front? I don't do it, but my mom does.
Hell no. Fuck them. Being pregnant is just one reason out of a million that it might or might not help a person to park close.

I don't think I've ever seen those anywhere except Babies R Us though, but I hear some places have them at places that aren't baby-related, and if it was like that here I'd ignore the signs. I had to take the bus when I was pregnant and I didn't even get any special bus treatment!

[Ambivalid]

I once was riding with my sister and she pulled into a handicapped spot using her deceased husbands handicapped sign. I told her I'd call the police myself if she didn't move and I wasn't joking. She was a tad miffed but she got over it.

I guess that means you can put me down for a no on this one.

:D I think I like you :D

[BMalion]

I would never park in a handicapped spot. I think it's a terrible thing to do. I have a friend who uses his mother's handicap permit. She died over a year ago which makes it worse.

I have a friend who used his mom's placard and got a ticket.

Good.

[Disgruntled Penguin]

:D I think I like you :D

Just don't ask me about handicapped stalls. I'm not so saintly on that one ;)

[Mangetout]

I do feel justified parking in the spot when helping my grandma into the doctors office, as long as I move the car after she has made it in.

Why move the car? You may be able-bodied, but you are, I presume, going to be helping Grandma out to the car after the appointment.

I guess it depends if this took place in Switzerland.

[Enright3]

A friend of mine used to use his deceased father's handicapped placard all the time. This is a guy I umpire with; he's anything but handicapped.

Then again this is the same guy that when he travels he stays in cheap motels with crumby breakfasts so on his way to the ballpark he hits the 'free' breakfast at the hotel up the road.

[antonio107]

Hell no. Fuck them. Being pregnant is just one reason out of a million that it might or might not help a person to park close.

I don't think I've ever seen those anywhere except Babies R Us though, but I hear some places have them at places that aren't baby-related, and if it was like that here I'd ignore the signs. I had to take the bus when I was pregnant and I didn't even get any special bus treatment!

They have them here at Loblaws (Grocery Chain) Zellers (Soon to be Target), Walmart...basically any of the big outdoor malls around here, really...even at the movie theatres!

[oreally]

Should someone feel guilty for parking in the non-legally binding "Expectant Mothers" spots they put at the front? I don't do it, but my mom does.

I have. I think they're insanely stupid. In fact women are generally SUPPOSED to exercise (esp walking) when pregnant. Example #8 billion of our society's politically correct idiocy/lunacy run amok.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Yes, generally pregnant women are supposed to get some exercise. But not always. I was put on bed rest during my last trimester because of toxemia/pre-eclampsia, and I was told to only walk to the bathroom and back on a daily basis. I was supposed to have someone drive me to doctor's appointments and drop me off at the door, as close as possible. I was allowed to sit up to eat, but other than these exceptions, I was supposed to be lying on my left side, with my feet elevated.

During those three months, I found out that I can indeed get tired of reading.

[Blackberry]

Yes, generally pregnant women are supposed to get some exercise. But not always. I was put on bed rest during my last trimester because of toxemia/pre-eclampsia, and I was told to only walk to the bathroom and back on a daily basis. I was supposed to have someone drive me to doctor's appointments and drop me off at the door, as close as possible. I was allowed to sit up to eat, but other than these exceptions, I was supposed to be lying on my left side, with my feet elevated.

But in a situation like that couldn't a pregnant woman get a temporary handicapped parking tag? Those spots are just for any old pregnant woman, and I think that's stupid. It just seems to be some cutesy, pointless thing. Fine for Babies R Us because they're supposed to be cutesy about pregnant women.

[Lynn Bodoni]

I'm not sure if there were handicapped hangtags and spots back when I was pregnant. This was over 30 years ago. And the handicapped spots aren't necessarily the ones closest to the door, they are the spots that have extra room for a wheelchair or walker next to them.

[GuanoLad]

That said, some establishments go way overboard with the HC spaces. Do we really need 20 spots reserved in front of that Walmart? It seems a little excessive to me.They do need to regularly reassess. I don't drive, but my friend who is wheelchair-bound does, he has a modified car, and he takes me with him sometimes. The number of times he can't find a disabled space, at both small and large places, is surprising. Probably 1 in 10 times of when I travel with him, they're all taken; more frequently at some places. He's taken to memorising certain shopping centres or corner stores that are more likely to have a space available, even if it's twenty minutes extra driving, to save the hassle.

There area lot more people who need the spaces than they've realised, and they need to add (proportionately) one or two more in most locations around here.

[oreally]

And the handicapped spots aren't necessarily the ones closest to the door, they are the spots that have extra room for a wheelchair or walker next to them.
? It's both. I've never seen such spots farther out. Always nearest entrances.


They do need to regularly reassess. I don't drive, but my friend who is wheelchair-bound does, he has a modified car, and he takes me with him sometimes. The number of times he can't find a disabled space, at both small and large places, is surprising. Probably 1 in 10 times of when I travel with him, they're all taken; more frequently at some places. He's taken to memorising certain shopping centres or corner stores that are more likely to have a space available, even if it's twenty minutes extra driving, to save the hassle.

There area lot more people who need the spaces than they've realised, and they need to add (proportionately) one or two more in most locations around here.
Did you notice if the people using them had a handicapped license or placard?

[Troppus]

I have. I think they're insanely stupid. In fact women are generally SUPPOSED to exercise (esp walking) when pregnant. Example #8 billion of our society's pollitically correct idiocy/lunacy run amok.
Yeah? Don't you need exercise, too? It is a courtesy, has zero to do with politics. Months one through eight I walked 2 miles each day, only gained twenty one pounds. My last month I was so big and clumsy that I had to swing the car door open as wide as possible and hoist myself out of the seat, then stand there swaying like a ship in port until my inner ear caught up with my brain. The last week, when I needed to shop and round up all the last minute baby needs I was in a lot of pain and very short of breath. If any stores in my area offered such parking, I would have gratefully shopped there. It's really nothing to bristle at, not legally enforceable. Just simple courtesy.

[s0meguy]

I know an entire family that uses the cars of their grandparents like this; where I live, the "handicapped" status is associated to the car. They specifically got them cars for that purpose. They don't use them themselves, except if they are being driven somewhere. If your car has the handicapped status, you're allowed to park it almost anywhere.

[BMalion]

And some state's laws are fuzzy on whether the handicapped person who was given the placard has actually be in the car, Ohio for instance.

[Ambivalid]

I know an entire family that uses the cars of their grandparents like this; where I live, the "handicapped" status is associated to the car. They specifically got them cars for that purpose. They don't use them themselves, except if they are being driven somewhere. If your car has the handicapped status, you're allowed to park it almost anywhere.

I think you are referring to the permanent handicap I.D.s that are part of the license plates; this is an option for anyone who has a permanent disability. A person can still opt for the transferable placard while having a permanent plate (in order to have access when not in their own car). I don't think any state makes it policy to only offer one or another.

[GuanoLad]

Did you notice if the people using them had a handicapped license or placard?The card sits on the dashboard, and is parked away from us when we drive by, so I don't know for certain. But it's very carefully policed in most places, so I expect they do 90% of the time.

[Broomstick]

I think you are referring to the permanent handicap I.D.s that are part of the license plates; this is an option for anyone who has a permanent disability. A person can still opt for the transferable placard while having a permanent plate (in order to have access when not in their own car). I don't think any state makes it policy to only offer one or another.
Here in Indiana we used to have two placards. Last time we went to renew they told us they were moving to plates as the default but since we had two vehicles we could plate one and placard the other. Probably should have plated the truck, since he drives that one most often, but for some reason we plated the car instead, which is mostly driven by me. So our plated car is almost never parked in a handicapped spot, because unless he's with me I'm not allowed to do that (and wouldn't anyhow, since I don't need the spot for me).

I think if there's just one vehicle they want it plated. I think it's to cut down on passing placards around but I'm not sure. I don't this it's mandated, just strongly encouraged.

[rowrrbazzle]

My mother's doctor approved a handicapped placard for her. She had back problems, and although she didn't need a wheelchair or crutches, all but the shortest walks caused her pain. I did borrow her car on a number of occasions. I used the placard twice before realizing that it just wasn't the right thing to do, and I never used it again.

[BMalion]

Ohio's BMV warns against the handicapped licsense plate as it might make you a target.

[Superhal]

I probably wouldn't use one if I had one unless I needed one.

[BMalion]

I probably wouldn't use one if I had one unless I needed one.

Good on you!

[MannyL]

So this was a parking lot which had no official legal enforceability, but rather just an area "cordoned off" by concert organizers? So you weren't really abusing the placard, in the official sense. You weren't depriving a handicapped person of their legally-established rightful parking place. I mean, yes, you were parking in an area that was meant to be reserved for those needing close proximity as well as be reserved for those who pay a little more for their tickets. I'd say these organizers were the ones really letting the ball drop here by NOT marking the appropriate spaces handicapped. I'd say you were being more of a cheap ass then an asshole.

Yes and no. The lot had 10-12 official legal spots then they added about 200 non-handicapped spots to the area. I would park in one of the non-handicapped spots.

I agree I was being a cheap ass