gorillas eat their poop, I'd rather eat meat

[korigan]

Concerning the collumn wether or not we are vegetarian by nature. Im a student in anthropology and primatology: I can tell all of you bruxelle srout lovers that chimps kill smaller monkeys fairly often, and they eat them alive, usually starting with the extremities. Im not trying to be gratuitly gross but reading B.S about chimps being vegetarian makes me wonder whether the human species is really mentally superior to our close cousins. I have to say that meat is a supplement and represents a small portion of the mostly herbivorous diet. Like in all things the key is moderation, cutting on steaks is good, but becoming a biological-hydroponic-tofu-vorous will only make you look like you just came out from a 60's commune.

Scuse my english, my mother tongue is french...

[yosemite]

Originally posted by korigan
I have to say that meat is a supplement and represents a small portion of the mostly herbivorous diet. Like in all things the key is moderation, cutting on steaks is good, but becoming a biological-hydroponic-tofu-vorous will only make you look like you just came out from a 60's commune.


Uh, thanks for sharing your diet tips and all...

One question. Why do you care what other people eat? How is it your business? If they wanna eat only plankton and Vodka, (or whatever diet they choose) what's it to you, anyway?

[dublos]

korigan

There is a seperate forum for comments on Cecil's columns, and the moderator's appreciate it if you post a link to the column you are commenting on so that people who aren't familiar with it can click on the link and learn.

Are humans meat eaters or vegetarians by nature? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_087.html)

A moderator will likely be moving this thread to the appropriate location shortly.

-Doug

[Gaudere]

[Moderator Hat ON]

Moving to Comments on Cecil's Columns. You also posted this topic twice; try to avoid doing this. I'll delete the excess one.

[Moderator Hat ON]

[Gaudere]

[Moderator Hat ON]

The duplicate topic had some information from korigan that it seems was intended to be posted to this thread. Here is the other thread's OP:

[Moderator Hat OFF]


I just posted a note about chimps killing other monkeys, and i forgot to say what i mant to say about gorillas. Here it is: gorillas, as cecil mentionned do not normally eat much meat at all, they do eat a whole lotta greens though, but they don't get enough nutrients from it, so it is not rare to see them eat their on poop to recuperate all those yummy calories, like I said, i'd rather eat meat...

[Duck Duck Goose]

Originally posted by korigan
Im not trying to be gratuitly gross but reading B.S about chimps being vegetarian...
Er, I believe the B.S. in question was generated not by Cecil but by someone who wrote to him, and whose letter was quoted in the column.

This--
In using comparative anatomy to determine what man was "meant" to eat, we should look at the species most similar to man, namely the anthropoid apes--chimpanzees, gibbons, gorillas, and orangutans. Of all animals, man's digestive organs and teeth most closely resemble these apes. In captivity, some of these animals will eat meat if forced to rather than starve to death. But in the wild, all eat a vegetarian diet.
--was written by Glen Kime, president, Vegetarian Society of Washington, D.C.

To which Cecil responds,
Not all anthropoid apes are exclusively vegetarian. The primatologist Jane Goodall established more than 20 years ago that wild chimpanzees kill other animals once in a while and eat the meat with relish.
So, to quote somebody else, "Where's the beef?"

[Arnold Winkelried]

Et c'est pas parce qu'on est végétarien qu'on aime forcément les choux de Bruxelles. :p

[andros]

Amen, Arnold. Personally, fecal matter is almost as appealing. Mrs. andros loves the damn things.

[Billy Rubin]

Poop. It's what's for dinner.

b.

[ihrkelings]

Laughing out loud Billy. A few months back our 3 year old son looked at his dinner of swedish meatballs and said "Dad, is this poop?" (Looks are deceiving, eh?)

[Muffin]

Originally posted by korigan
Im a student in anthropology and primatology: I can tell all of you bruxelle srout lovers that chimps kill smaller monkeys fairly often, and they eat them alive, usually starting with the extremities.

Gee, Korigan, thanks for the dietary tip. Can't say as I expect that I will take you up on it any time soon.

For the record, I don't eat poop, I don't eat small live monkeys, and I don't eat brussels sprouts. It happens that I am a vegetarian, but I don't see as how that has affected my choice to not eat the above.

And yes, of course I am aware that chimps are vegetarian in general, but occasionally eat meat, and occasionally are canibalistic. It's nice to see that you are taking the trouble to correct a common misperception concerning chimps, but please don't go throwing little balls of deficate derision at all vegetarians because of the lack of knowledge of a few, be they vegetarian or not.

Why the concern, Korigan? If some folks don't want to eat small live monkeys (or poop or brussels sprouts), what's it to you? Why are you so aggressive toward vegetarians?

For example, whatever makes you think that being a vegetarian makes one look like someone just out of a 60s commune? Care to cite your source on this one? I know I sure don't look that way. Click on the little red house below this post if you doubt me.

Now here's the question: Would animal rights activists protest an experiment in which one was testing to see if chimps would eat brussels sprouts? And if they did, would the protest be based on a general dislike of animal testing no matter how humane, or would it be based on the poor animals being subjected to the horrors of brussels sprouts?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Nisan]

Hey Korigan,

(Not to worry, no anger in this response...)

As a male aged 24 years, (the first 7 of which were meat-free by parental intervention, and the last 10 of which were vegetarian by my own design), 5'8" and 190 lbs. with 10 percent body fat, it's safe to say that not all vegetarians look like they came out of a 1960's commune.

Though my diet does include free range eggs, (though not the fertile variety...liquid chicken doesn't appeal to me),
and some dairy products, (mostly organic stuff, no milk though...I stick to soy...cow's milk has lost it's appeal completely), the bulk of what I consume is green and at the bottom of the food chain...(coincidentally, I can think of at least three different items in my fridge that are hydroponically grown, and many others consisting primarily of tofu).

I can relate to your perceptions of vegetarians-- there are plenty out there that are skinny...no doubt about it...
However, for every skinny vegetarian in the USA, there are at least as many skinny omnivores.
And for every vegetarian out there "not getting enough nutrients" there are scores of omnivores not getting enough of the RIGHT KIND of nutrients.

Just some food for thought.

And by the way,
yosemitebabe- your "plankton and vodka" diet cracked me up!
Maybe it's the late hour, but I nearly died!

[yosemite]

Nisan - welcome to the boards!

Glad you liked the plankton and vodka comment. Hey - it's technically a vegan diet, isn't it? Yum! ;)

(I'm plain old vegetarian, myself...)

[Nisan]

Thanks for the welcome!

And yes, technically it is a vegan diet, (as long as you don't eat zooplankton)! :D

Have any of you ever seen footage of a gorilla eating his poop, by the way? I believe it was on Animal Planet, (a cable channel), that I saw the footage...I nearly shit my pants laughing so hard...in fact, I am now laughing just thinking about it...

Even funnier than "the act" itself was the narrator's commentary, (imagine a male, with a slightly nasal British accent and an inquisitive tone):

"...we are not quite sure why the gorillas do this...perhaps it's to recover valuable nutrients...or perhaps it's due to the desire for a warm meal..."

It was the goddamn funniest thing I heard in months!

[JillGat]

[[Though my diet does include free range eggs]]

Do you have to go out and lasso them?
- Jill

[Irishman]

Perhaps you can explain how an unfertilized egg is not "liquid chicken". Seems to me it's mostly the same stuff.

[Nisan]

I can occasionally be found riding my ostrich out on the prairie, rolling cigarettes and lasso-ing some grub... ;)

As far as the difference between fertile and non-fertile eggs:

A nonfertile egg is *mostly* the same stuff as a fertile egg...however, a fertile egg can be incubated and hatched, while a nonfertile egg couldn't ever possibly hatch, because it is merely the product of chicken ovulation
and not fertilization.

So, yes, the difference is slim, but the idea of ingesting an embryo doesn't appeal to me...unless it's a Cadbury bunny egg!

[Chronos]

Pardon my asking, but aren't all eggs sold for human consumption unfertilized? An egg farm would lose a lot of customers if a viable embryo were ever found in one. Even most folks who have no ethical problems with eating chicken would be disgusted by such a find.

[Gr8Kat]

Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
Et c'est pas parce qu'on est végétarien qu'on aime forcément les choux de Bruxelles. :p

Ok, Babelfish translated this as:

And it is not because one is vegetarian whom one loves inevitably the Brussels sprouts.

I have no idea what this means.

[Arnold Winkelried]

Sorry Gr8Kat. The original poster was a french speaker. Babelfish did a passable job of translating, except that the "qu'on" was a "que on", not a "qui on". A more accurate translation would be:
It is not because one is a vegetarian that one would inevitably like brussel sprouts.

[John W. Kennedy]

Assuming that the original French poster was A) sane and B) competent in his own language, may I suggest that, "It is not the case that, because one is a vegetarian, one would inevitably like brussel sprouts," is far more clear and sensible?

[Terminus Est]

Originally posted by Chronos
Pardon my asking, but aren't all eggs sold for human consumption unfertilized? An egg farm would lose a lot of customers if a viable embryo were ever found in one. Even most folks who have no ethical problems with eating chicken would be disgusted by such a find.

...on the other hand, maybe it already is.

In the Philippines, you can get balut, which is a fertilized duck egg that's been hard-boiled. The egg has been incubated for some time prior to boiling, so the duckling has already partially developed - it's covered with a fine down and the bones and beak are still quite soft and mostly cartilage. The egg also still includes most of the yolk and the egg white.

It's served hot. To eat it, first crack the large end and carefully peel away the shell and membrane from that end. Sprinkle a little salt inside then down the "soup", knocking back the egg like a shot of whiskey. Then you eat the rest of the egg much like an ordinary hard boiled egg, peeling off the shell and sprinkling salt (sea salt is best) with each bite.

[domina]

There are regular old hen's eggs at my supermarket that are marked on the package as fertilized. So if you buy them, you presumably know you take the risk of finding an embryo. Though I've eaten them, and they aren't any different from other eggs.

[John W. Kennedy]

If they're "fertilized", then there is an embryo. Obviously, it's a tiny one.

[Nisan]

Believe it or not, people commonly eat fertile eggs.
As mentioned earlier, a fertile egg is one that could be hatched- assuming it hasn't been subjected to much after erupting from the chicken's ass!

Seriously though, the embryo, as long as it is no longer viable shortly after the egg has been laid,( ie- the embryo has been fatally traumatized), you will see little more than a tiny spot of blood. Note that bloodspots in eggs do not necessarily indicate a fertile egg.

(Consult the American Egg Board's Website http://www.aeb.org/ for more information.)

Just for your reference, it takes about 96 hours of incubation after the egg is laid for an embryo, (still transparent), with a beating heart, discernable eyes and the start of feathers to be visible with the naked eye.

[RiverRunner]

<Click on the little red house below this post if you doubt me.>

I know this is off-topic, but I just wanted to say thanks to Muffin for this tip. I had not noticed the little red house before.

So: thanks, Muffin.


RR

[Muffin]

Originally posted by RiverRunner
<Click on the little red house below this post if you doubt me.>

I know this is off-topic, but I just wanted to say thanks to Muffin for this tip. I had not noticed the little red house before.

So: thanks, Muffin.


RR

You welcome. Hope you enjoy the rivers on my page.