Cincinnati

[black rabbit]

Oh Jesus.

This fucking sucks.

Shit.

I don't particularly feel like getting into it now. I'm a block away from the riots. See http://enquirer.com for some of the story.

There goes the bid for the Olympics.

[Blackclaw]

Yeah I'm down here too.

A kid gets shot by the police. Unfair sure. Tragic yes. Investigations need to happen. So some folks course of action? Loot the local merchants? Someone want to explain that leap in logic to me?

-Blackclaw

[RickJay]

Originally posted by black455
There goes the bid for the Olympics.

Silver lining in every cloud.

[Una Persson]

I wonder how truthful the reporting on CNN has been of this incident?

The reason I ask - I have CNN running non-stop here in my hotel room, and every single piece of footage shows groups of rioters that are 100.000% black. And also shows people who are 100.000% white cleaning up the wreckage of their businesses, looking in despair at their cars, or sitting in a hospital bed.

Is this really, predominantly, a black on white race riot thinly disguised as a "protest"? Because the news seems to be portraying it that way. Will any of these protesters who are vandalizing the businesses then be charged with hate crimes? (Somehow, I don't think so. :rolleyes: )

I also saw the Mayor of Cincinnati and his statements - he sounds weak, terrified, and completely ineffective - especially given what is going on there. The news is portraying him as throwing up his hands and saying, essentially, "can't we all just get along"?

I'm pretty sure the news is slanting this a lot, but if not - I would expect the National Guard and tanks to be in the streets.

[Blackclaw]

The riot is very much race based. All of the rioters are black. White folks have been targeted by the crowds based on skin color alone. Fortunately such black on white violence is not as common as the media may be portraying it. Property damage seems to be fairly random with no thought given to who may own the property. But then again we seem to have an abundance of no thought right now. The national guard may be here soon.

There are legitimate concerns and questions that have been raised by the latest police shooting, but young gangs of thugs are taking away the perceived legitimacy of the black communities' complaints.

For now the rioters seem to have a schedule going. The mob begins to collect between 3 and 4. Indignant calls for action till around 5. Calls by the local clergy for calm as the rampaging begins.

I am fortunate in that although the business I work for is a few blocks from the troubled areas, I haven't been near any of the problems as they occured. One of my co-workers wasn't so lucky as his apartment was set on fire and his car windows were smashed. He's fine, but was unable to make it into work today. We work for a minority owned company by the way. Ah the irony...

[voguevixen]

Originally posted by Anthracite

I'm pretty sure the news is slanting this a lot, but if not - I would expect the National Guard and tanks to be in the streets.

My cousin lives in southern Indiana and claims the National Guard have already been called out. Apparently there's a "state-of-emergency" curfew from 8pm to 6am or something. Yikes! I can't believe this sort of thing is a big deal anymore. Run from the cops = get shot. Who doesn't know that? The Fox network builds entire shows around it! Of course I suppose I'm jaded from living so near to Oakland, CA where this sort of thing happens frequently.

Do they know yet who shot the cop? The link just says no arrests were made. What do we know about the shooting victim, other than he was a different race than the cop?

The "See what people are saying" section of the link is extremely interesting.

[andros]

Bear in mind that a lot of the property destruction is occurring in black neighborhoods. Which only contributed to people's fear and anger.

[black rabbit]

Last night was pretty calm. The cops made about 200 arrests, of which something like 160 were for curfew violations. The National Guard hasn't been called out, but the governor did send 75 state troopers to assist the police and sherriff.
Run from the cops = get shot. Who doesn't know that?

Well, next to your local police, the CPD have killed more black males in the past few years than anywhere else in the country. Five in less than a year. 15 of the last 15 people shot by police were black. Even though I'm a honky, I'm frustrated by the apparent unwillingness of local leaders to thoroughly examine the issue of police/community relations. Hell, you shoulda seen the amount of resistance to the recent initiative in City Council to just study racial profiling within the city.

Aww crap... time for work... more to come...

[Avumede]

VogueVixen, running from a cop is not a crime that should carry an instantaneous death penalty. Especially when the victim was only guilty of a few parking violations. Since Cincinatti has such a big history between blacks and the policy (among other thigns, 2 blacks in November were killed without provocation and the police chief has used racial slurs) the rioting seems to be in response to a system that has failed the citizens.

It's sad that everyone here is complaining about the property damage, whites getting hurt, etc, but no one has complained about the fact that if you are black in Cincinatti, the people who are supposed to be protecting you will actually kill you with little or no reason. That truly sucks. The windows in the storefront can all be replaced, the bruises to those whites that have been hurt will heal, but nothing can bring those murdered by the police back to life.

So yes, this thing is a big deal. Thank god we don't live in a world where the police can do this sort of thing and the people just shrug it off.

[tevya]

I'm in Cincinnati too. I don't live or work in downtown proper, but I do live in Northside (an area close enough to downtown to be considered part of the City of Cincinnati).
My neighborhood has been very quite during the entire riotous (rioting?) period. We were under the 8pm-6am curfew last night.

I beleive the property damage and looting is pretty random. It is in a largely black area and many of the business are minority owned. I beleve the person on person violence is largely black on white violence.

The mayor is fairly weak but this has a lot to do with Cincinnati's City Government in that it is designed that way. The mayor is not elected separately but is simply the City Council top vote getter. I beleive he is pretty limited in what he can and can't do (without the rest of the council). Not that he couldn't be a better public speaker to at least overcome this perception. However, he doesn't usually have to speak to a national audience.

[tevya]

And let me just add that I second what Avumede said.

Cincinnati is a racist city. There always seems to be racial tension floating around. Much of the racism is covert but there are some obvious racism as well (like the police chief's racial slurs).

[black rabbit]

Originally posted by tevya
I'm in Cincinnati too. I don't live or work in downtown proper, but I do live in Northside (an area close enough to downtown to be considered part of the City of Cincinnati).
My neighborhood has been very quite during the entire riotous (rioting?) period...


Thank God. I was worried about Shake It! records.

[tevya]

Of course when I say "there are some" I mean "there is some."

[Biggirl]

Why riot in your own neigborhood? What does this accomplish? There was a problem here in New York between a portion of our Jewish community and the police. Just like in Cinci, a crowd gathered and was soon whipped into a frenzy. What had, by then, grown into an angry mob, armed themselves with bottles and bricks then stormed directly to the local police station.

Yet I don't want to be accused of stating rioters ever actually use logic.

When rage explodes on the streets like this, it is never pretty.

[LateComer]

I was once surprised when I found out that Jerry Springer had once been mayor of Cincinatti.

I shouldn't have been.

Perhaps they should call in Springer to calm things down with his goon security guys.

[Stuffy]

voguevixen Don't be dissin my hood ;)

In Oakland we just recently had an undercover cop, shot and killed by rookie patrol cops. The undercover had just caught a cat thief but the rookies seeing this black guy with a gun shot and killed him. The family of the cop is suing the city.

We also have the Rough Riders here: These guys were like the Rampart mob down in LA. Beating suspects planting evidence and the like. They're been fired and are facing serious charges. At least our DA is not putting up with crap like that. But we've had some unrmed black men being shot down by police too.

[hapaXL]

Originally posted by voguevixen
Of course I suppose I'm jaded from living so near to Oakland, CA where this sort of thing happens frequently.


Uh...excuse me? Another Oakland resident checking in here urging you to not spread further misinformation about my town.

Actually, Oakland has never really had any major riots. Despite shocking levels of police brutality and poverty in the 1960s, it was one of the few urban centers to not explode into riots. People cite a level of political awareness (this is the home of the Black Panthers, after all) as a reason for the calm. After the Rodney King verdict in 1992, there was rioting in "urbane" San Francisco and many other cities across the country but none in Oakland.

The only significan disturbances I can even recall are: a major protest at a draft center in the late 1960s (with mostly white activists) and a confrontation with police at Festival at the Lake in the mid-1990s that resulted in a few store-front windows being broken. Nothing resembling a riot at all. I've probably personally seen more broken windows in Berkeley than have actually been broken in Oakland over the past 11 years of my residence here.

I love Oakland and am proud to live here. For some reason (could it be the current assault of gentrification?), this comment really pissed me off. And since we're in the Pit, I feel I can speak freely.

If you don't know, shut the fuck up. Don't make stories up because you will be called on them. And if you don't respect where you live, feel free to leave anytime.

[SuaSponte]

Um, hapa? Voguevixen was referring to black men being shot by cops in Oakland, not riots.
I don't know if vv is right, but if you're going to yell at her, do it for the right reason.

Sua

[tomndebb]

hapXL? voguevixen's Oakland statement was in regard to police brutality and cops shooting people a little too frequently.

If those statements are also in error (although you also indicated a certain level of police brutality), feel free to bash. However, there has been no assertion that riots are common in Oakland.

[Stuffy]

Correction to my post

please replace "cat" with "car" Though cat does make it sound more interesting.

:::shakes hands with HapaXL , before hijacking:::

Where in Oakland do you reside?

I live around the corner from the Mills College.

Tomndebb having reread voguevixen's post, I agree, I also read it out of context.

[black rabbit]

Originally posted by stuffinb
voguevixen Don't be dissin my hood ;)


I, on the other hand, will dis Oakland all I want...

SWEEP.

[voguevixen]

:shocked:

Good grief, of course I didn't mean Oakland has rioting all the time! Thanks to everyone else who was able to pick up on that. I will admit I was over-generalizing by implying Oakland itself has some sort of trigger-happy police force where black suspects are concerned. There are SEVERAL recent Bay Area shootings along similar lines that result in internal investigations, not rioting.

I also did not mean to imply that by running from police you somehow DESERVE to be shot. I'm just saying that you would think people would know by now that running from law inforcement leads them to believe you're trying to hide something major, especially if you're being questioned for something minor.

I'd also like to point out that living in the Bay Area with it's myraid of cultures for the most part harmoniously intersecting makes one forget how far a lot of the rest of the US has to come in regards to people getting along. I should know better, since I have relatives that make Hee Haw characters look enlightened.

[RTA]

I personally applaud the protest actions by Cincinnati's black community, regardless of how violent and scary the timid white suburbanites say it is for them.

All across America, the pigs continue to unabashedly demonstrate that they are perfectly happy - and in some cases, eager - to kill black people at the drop of a hat. Kill, or shove a plunger up their ass, beat the shit out of them mercilessly, (shrug) whatever's appropriate at the time ... And people wonder why blacks are so pissed off "all of a sudden", i.e. "I wonder why they are so unhappy with the status quo"? PLEASE.

The only clue bus the establishment notices any more is the one that's built on force, but only because they rule by force. We reap what we sow. Civil disturbance and disobedience is only to be expected from a populace abused by the system. It's too bad they're ruining their own communities, instead of storming police stations and other loci of the white power base.

As Gil-Scott Heron once so astutely asserted, "the revolution will not be televised; it will be LIVE." We're not there yet; someday.

- RTA (white as snow & proud to say he raised hell during San Francisco's Rodney King riots)

[Blackclaw]

RTA, mobs suck. They're a collection of the lowest form of sheep that insist on shitting in their own pen.

There are real issues to be addressed in Cincinatti, but hurting innocent people only make people give more power to the police. Hurting neighborhood businesses only end up hurting the neighborhood.

[black rabbit]

RTA:

Nice to know to have so much sympathy for the cause. Perhaps you should actually read a few things about what the fuck is actually going on before you spew such misinformed garbage.

Since it seems so important to you, I sweat revolutionary cred out my balls. I also happen to help the little shitbags who are responsible for the vast majority of the violence out on a daily basis as part of my chosen vocation. If you actually read the OP, you might notice that I happen to live in the neighborhood of the riots, you dumbfuck, and nobody I've spoken to, black or white, is really keen on what's happening.

When the local representatives of the New Black Panther Party actually take to the streets to make a plea for peace, does it cross your mind that perhaps the whole thing has gone a bit too far?

How many buildings did you set on fire in South Central, honky? If you were in Cincinnati right now, would you be looting black-owned businesses? Or would you be sitting in the suburbs greasing your cock, waiting for the revolution to come so you could steal a few 2 liters of Mountain Dew from the 7-11?

It's knee-jerk little puds like you that make me ashamed to call myself a fucking commie.

[RTA]

hurting innocent people only make people give more power to the police. Hurting neighborhood businesses only end up hurting the neighborhood

Quite & exactly so. Like I said, it's a shame that the aggrieved choose to incinerate etc. their own neighborhoods - instead of taking all that energy and really effecting swift and decisive change. But when you're so angry that you can't see straight, can you really be expected to take a bus to the nearest police station? to City Hall?

After all this time, we're STILL talking about the results of egregious and racist police abuse. The pigs that blew away that guy in Cincy are going to get away scot free; maybe a couple days' paid vacation at most. We all know it. No justice = no peace; QED. Even some construct like the New Black Panthers can't diffuse the deeply felt passions of the street-level populace, and assuming that such an outfit represents the entirety of the intentions and interests of the community at large is laziness incarnate.

How many buildings did you set on fire in South Central, honky?

Please note that South Central is in LA, where I was not - Mr. Geography, ladies and gentlemen! (polite golf applause)

As for the rest of it, you strike me not so much as a "fucking commie", more like a failed liberal who, by joining the system in order to heal society's ills, has himself wound up with his ideals compromised. Tainted goods, knuckled under by the realities of the system.

If you were really such an advocate for the oppressed and downtrodden (or as you call them, "shitbags" - way to go, Ghandi) - with "revolutionary cred" ostensibly "sweating out of your balls" (at this point, I suspect that's a comfortable lie you tell yourself to help you think you're still cool) - and blessed with a "daily basis" communication link with the community ... then you wouldn't be channeling all those positive vibrations into sitting at home pouring out your woes to strangers out on the internet. You'd be out on the street, right now, getting involved.

nobody I've spoken to ... is really keen on what's happening.

Guess you're not talking to the right people - it sure seems like some people are quite keen on it, indeed.

[Sir Rhosis]

Actually, being on the street at the moment won't get you "involved," only arrested. The curfew is still on.

Good Friday, indeed.

Being a Kentuckian, 23 miles over the border, I can't say that I've kept up with the "slurs" that Chief Streicher supposedly directed at the black officer. The story has died down. One side has it that he used the "N" word only to ask "What would you do if called an "N"? The other side says it was a deliberate slur. Most posters here take it as the latter, it seems.

Sir Rhosis

[Blackclaw]

Originally posted by RTA
After all this time, we're STILL talking about the results of egregious and racist police abuse. The pigs that blew away that guy in Cincy are going to get away scot free; maybe a couple days' paid vacation at most. We all know it.


Wow, you can see the future. What the fuck are you doing here and not working for Madam Cleo?

Oh wait, don't tell me. You deduced the outcome of the case by reasoning that the entire system is racist. What the fuck ever. But in the last incident of a black man being killed the two cops involved were indicted. No rioting was required either.

Racism exists. But it is not the cause of every event and it is not the determining factor of every outcome.

[Muffin]

2:15 a.m. Saturday: Timothy Thomas was shot and killed while attempting to pull up his baggy pants.

11:00 p.m. Wednesday: Police Spc. Andrew Nogueira was shot and lived when the bullet deflecteed off his belt buckle.

Monday and Tuesday night: rioters crossed the Rubicon into downtown and broke into clothing stores.

Fritz the Cat otta move to Cincinnati.


Seriously, I wish the best to you folks in Cincinnati. You're in an awful fix, and I only hope that everyone can get through it with no further loss of life. Both systemic racism and mindless riots suck.

[Rue DeDay]

Originally posted by RTA
But when you're so angry that you can't see straight, can you really be expected to take a bus to the nearest police station? to City Hall?


The riots started acroos the street from City Hall. They were throwing rocks through the Police Station windows. No bussing needed.

Actually it wasn't deemed a full-blown riot when they were across the street from the City Hall, but that was where the peaceful protest stopped being peaceful.

[Weirddave]

RTA,

Congradulations! You've just set this "fighting ignorance" thing we do back 2 years. You would be right at home in the movie Repo Man:

Dying punk, shot in a robbery:" I blame...society"
Emelio Esteves:" Bullshit. You're a white suburban punk, just like me."

Oh, wait, that was my generation. These days....say, is this (http://www.darkhosts.com/crept/nov/di/j1.jpg) you? Pretty close, aren't I? Your profile says you are "in the arts". Here's a free clue, jackass, community productions of a "modern" interpetation of "Hamlet" don't really qualify as "the arts". You were in SF, "fighting the man" after the King verdect, huh? Says you're in Florida now. Could it be you went away to school? Did you get home from the riot to mommy before curfew? You are so sure that things are just black and white, huh? Guess what? When you enter puberty and are forced to interact with the real world, you'll discove that there are things called "grey areas". Just because a police officer who is white shoots a black man, it does not mean that race was the reason. Could it be? Absolutely. If that is the case, such officers are punished severely as a general rule. Do some escape justice? Again, sure. This is not a perfect society. Do murders go free? Every day. Here's what is not a grey area. When a group of people react to a perceved injustice by protesting, that is a good thing. Such attention can only help redress inequities in society. When it spills over into riots, that is a bad thing, turning people who might otherwise have supported the cause in to people who oppose it. Think on THAT next time you get on your high horse and want to go "off some pigs".

[thinksnow]

Well, I'm white and most of my friends are, too, but my buddy from the Marines who came down here Thursday has given me some first-hand info. He lives in the Hyde park area and has many friends in Mt. Adams, generally considered "nice" areas.

He decided to leave for the weekend when he came out and found three cars outside had busted out windshields. Funny-ish thing was, two of them belonged to black folks in the building.

Yeah, nothing like random violence and vandolism. The steriotypical stuff is killing me: they raid sporting good stores and steal shoes, like the $200 Jordans or whatever is in these days. True story. They burn and loot their own nieghborhoods. Yeah, brilliant.

Did I mention the Black Panthers had been to town? I'm sure they were there to help quelle the stupidity. The issue isn't the blacks in Cinci, it's about a couple hundred blacks fucking it up for the thousands and tens of thousands of blacks in Cinci.

Ignorance on a large scale. But then again, I'm white and I've not "fought the man" and I believe in the police and the system, so I'm sure I don't know.

[thinksnow]

And yes, i realize that last post was loaded with typos and stuff, but it's freaking late and I'm tired, so get over it, it doesn't change the message.

[Biggirl]

Well, not only is the post full of typing errors and the like, it's also not very clear (to me anyway). It could be that I need my irony detector upgraded. Are you saying, thinksnow, that the Black Panthers incited the riots and that people don't usually riot in their own neighborhoods and rioters are not random in the things they destroy?

As I've mentioned before, we've had our share of riots here in the city --nowhere near the amount most people think, however-- and it's not only the black people who do it. It is always because fustrations and anger in a community boil over into undirected, illogical, pratically dehumanizing rage.

There is a difference between a riot and looting (which we here in New York have experienced also-- but really not has bad as most people think. If they could figure out a way to keep the lights on, it wouldn't happen at all.) Looting is opportunistic robbery and breaking and entering on a grand scale.

This is not to say that some rioters are not being opportunistic robbers and some looters are not boiling over with rage. I'm just drawing a distinction between the two types of unrest.

[Rue DeDay]

A few facts presented by me, a white guy, edited from The Cincinnati Enquirer, a white-run, conservative paper here in town. (THE paper in town)

From Sunday's paper @ http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/04/15/loc_stories_of.html


Harvey Price
Feb. 1, 1995
Harvey Price killed 15-year-old Tesha Beasley with an axe and kept police at bay for four hours before he was shot by a SWAT team officer on Feb. 1, 1995.

Darryll C. Price
April 4, 1996
Darryll C. Price was jumping on the hood of a car stuck in traffic, shouting that he was going to “shoot someone,” just before he died in a struggle with police on April 4, 1996.

Mr. Price struck his head on the ground and suffered other minor injuries when police sprayed a chemical irritant in his face, tackled him and placed shackles on his wrists and ankles.

An autopsy revealed that Mr. Price's death was caused by “agitated delirium with restraint,” a sudden death syndrome usually seen in mentally ill people or drug abusers. Mr. Price had been using cocaine prior to the incident. The syndrome begins when a disturbed person can't get enough oxygen, bringing on an irregular heartbeat or respiratory arrest.


Lorenzo Collins
Feb. 23, 1997
Lorenzo Collins had a brick. Fifteen police officers, surrounding Mr. Collins, had guns. A 25-year-old Avondale man with a history of mental illness, Mr. Collins died five days after two of those officers shot him on Feb. 23, 1997. He had refused to drop the brick he was using to threaten police.


Daniel Williams
Feb. 2, 1998
Daniel Williams flagged down Kathleen Conway's police cruiser on Feb. 2, 1998. When she stopped, he hit her in the face and fired four shots from a .357 Magnum into her legs and abdomen before seizing the steering wheel and shoving her into the passenger seat.

Officer Conway, 23, survived the attack by shooting Mr. Williams in the head with two shots from her service revolver. It was a justifiable shooting, investigators ruled.


Jermaine Lowe
June 3, 1998
Jermaine Lowe saw the police lights in the rearview mirror and hit the gas. He sped up Vine Street in a stolen car, through Over-the-Rhine and into Corryville — an eight-minute chase on June 3, 1998 that ended when Mr. Lowe crashed into another car.

A convicted felon who had broken parole and was sought for an armed robbery, Mr. Lowe leaned out the driver's door and unloaded his handgun in the direction of three Cincinnati police officers.

The officers responded with a hail of gunfire that sent dozens of spent casings into the street. Mr. Lowe was pronounced dead at the scene; a passenger in his car, who was not charged with a crime, was unharmed.


Randy Black
July 17, 1998
Randy Black was an education student at the University of Cincinnati when he decided to rob the Cinco Credit Union, where he was a member, on the morning of July 17, 1998.

A short time later, he was dead.

Mr. Black, 23, of Evanston, threatened credit union employees and demanded money. But that's not what got him killed.

Cincinnati Police chased Mr. Black down Clifton Avenue, where he threw a brick at an officer. Officer Joseph Eichhorn tried to arrest Mr. Black, but the young man picked up a two-by-four dotted with jutting rusted nails. With board in hand, he lunged at the officer. Mr. Black was shot twice in the abdomen and died.

An investigation found that Mr. Black had been armed with a handgun during the robbery, but ditched the gun during the police chase.


Michael Carpenter
March 19, 1999
Michael Carpenter's death is the only one so far to result in a Cincinnati Police officer being reprimanded.

The 30-year-old Mount Airy man attracted officers' attention about 1:20 a.m. March 19, 1999, at a Northside convenience store. Officers Brent McCurley and Michael Miller ran the plates of the blue Pontiac he was driving — which would turn out to be a friend's — and found them expired.

Within two minutes of the computer check, the officers radioed for help. One of the officers had fired his gun and Mr. Carpenter was dead.

That is pretty much all that police, witnesses and family members agree on.



James King
Aug. 20, 1999
James King fired a shot in Fifth Third Bank to show that he meant business.

The shot didn't hurt anyone, but it came just after Mr.King handed a note threatening to take hostages and kill people if he didn't get a bag full of cash on Aug. 20, 1999.

Mr. King, 44, got his money and took off in a gray Chevrolet Celebrity with three Cincinnati police cruisers and a university police car close behind.

Five blocks later, Mr. King turned into the open gates of a construction site, scattering workers.

He led police on a winding course around several 15-foot-tall dirt mounds inside the site, just off Martin Luther King Drive. The construction area, about the size of a football field, is separated from UC's Morgens, Scioto and Sawyer residence halls by a chain-link fence.

The end came when Mr. King found himself trapped by dirt piles in front and police cars behind. He jumped out of the car, gun in hand. Officers ordered him to drop his weapon. He refused.



Carey Tompkins
Oct. 16, 1999
Carey Tompkins lost a life-and-death struggle over his 9mm handgun with a Cincinnati Police officer in the narrow hallway of a West End apartment building on Oct. 16, 1999.



Alfred Pope
March 14, 2000
Alfred Pope was hit by 10 of 26 bullets fired at him by Cincinnati police during the early morning of March 14, 2000.

At 23 years old, the Bond Hill man already had 18 felony charges and five convictions, including weapons and assault charges.

His final run-in with police started when he and another man robbed and pistol-whipped three people in the hallway of an Avondale apartment building. Shots were heard.

Police arrived and chased Mr. Pope, who pulled out a 9mm handgun after a struggle. He pointed the gun at himself and then at the officers.



Courtney Mathis
Sept. 1, 2000
Courtney Mathis was a boy trying to be a man.

On the night of Sept. 1, 2000, the 12-year-old sneaked out of his parents' Bahama Terrace apartment and into the driver's seat of a relative's car. He drove to a Mount Airy convenience store on Colerain Avenue.

Cincinnati Police Officer Kevin Crayon saw the boy at the store and asked to see his driver's license. Courtney put the car in reverse. Officer Crayon reached into the car, apparently trying to grab the keys or shift the car into park.

Courtney sped off with the officer tangled in the steering wheel. Eight hundred feet later, as the car weaved down Colerain and approached a busy intersection, Officer Crayon managed to pull out his gun and shoot Courtney point-blank in the chest.

The shot dislodged the 40-year-old officer, who died when his head hit the exhaust pipe of a car waiting to turn left at the intersection. He was the fourth policeman killed in three years.

Courtney managed to drive home. He collapsed in the living room and died four hours later.



Roger Owensby Jr.
Nov. 7, 2000
Roger Owensby Jr. died of suffocation on Nov. 7,2000, as police tried to arrest him for outstanding warrants.

Police spotted Mr. Owensby at a Roselawn gas station where he'd just bought an energy drink. He cooperated with the officers until he saw the handcuffs. The 29-year-old College Hill man broke free and ran, but was tackled almost immediately.

Police officers sprayed Mr. Owensby with a chemical irritant, handcuffed him and placed him in the rear of a cruiser. He was found unconscious a short time later. Two of the police officers involved in the Owensby arrest were indicted. The FOP's Mr. Fangman said that should be proof that there is no investigative coverup when it comes to alleged police misconduct.



Jeffrey Irons
Nov. 8, 2000
Jeffrey Irons had been staying in an Over-the-Rhine homeless shelter when he went into the Pleasant Ridge IGA supermarket on Nov. 8, 2000, and allegedly stole deodorant and shaving cream.

Rather than surrender to officers who caught up with him, the 30-year-old Mr. Irons struggled, police say.

Mr. Irons grabbed a sergeant's gun and shot Officer Tim Pappas in the hand. Another officer, Frederick Gilmer, shot and killed Mr. Irons.



Adam Wheeler
Jan. 31, 2001
Adam Wheeler was wanted on three open felony warrants when he slammed his Donahoe Avenue apartment door in the face of a police officer investigating a drug complaint on Jan. 31, 2001.

The incident touched off a shootout with Cincinnati police that ended in Mr. Wheeler's death.

Mr. Wheeler allegedly screamed, “You want a war? You got a war.” He then fired all six shots from his gun.



Timothy Thomas
April 7, 2001
Timothy Thomas ran from police twice before. Both times, he got away.

Mr. Thomas, 19, knew he had more than a dozen misdemeanor warrants out for his arrest and he knew police were looking for him. On April 7, he knew he'd been spottedby two off-duty officers working outside The Warehouse nightclub on Vine Street.

Mr. Thomas took off, and the chase was on. The officers called in backups. Twelve officers joined in. Police said Mr. Thomas jumped fences and darted behind buildings, finally turning down an alley off Republic Street, one of the city's most dangerous.

Officer Steve Roach was joining the pursuit from the other direction. He saw Mr. Thomas emerge from behind a building at the end of the alley and told authorities that Mr. Thomas was reaching for something in his waistband. He thought his life was in danger.

Officer Roach fired one fatal shot, hitting Mr. Thomas in the chest. No weapon was found on Mr. Thomas.




Harvey Price: hostage situation
Darryll C. Price: threats to shoot someone
Lorenzo Collins: mentally ill and threatening police
Daniel Williams: shot a cop and car-jacked her cruiser
Jermaine Lowe: gunfight with cops
Randy Black: threatening cops
Michael Carpenter: UNJUST AND TRAGIC
James King: bank robery gone bad
Carey Tompkins: struggle over gun with cops
Alfred Pope: threatening cops (and self) with a gun
Courtney Mathis: UNFORTUNATE AND TRAGIC
Roger Owensby Jr.: NEGLECT OF A SUSPECT IN CUSTODY
Jeffrey Irons: shot a cop with the cop's own gun
Adam Wheeler: shoot-out with cops
Timothy Thomas: AVOIDABLE IF COPS WERE CLAIVOYANT AND MR. THOMAS DID NOT RUN

There were also five Cincinnati Police Officers killed in the line of duty since 1987.

The Cincinnati Police Force needs some work. Blaming the riots on them is not right.

[Weirddave]

Courtney Mathis: UNFORTUNATE AND TRAGIC

This one I disagree with. ( all judgements are base on info presented in the previous post) Courtney was dragging the office down the street, as it turns out, to his(the officer's) death. How is the officer unjustified in defending himself with a gun? Would you still call it "UNJUST AND TRAGIC if he was 22, not 12? As evidenced, a 12 year old is just a able to kill as an adult. He chose his crime, he paid his price. A shame, yes, but I see no blame on the cop here.

[Weirddave]

Ooops, misread "Unfortunate" as "Unjust". My bad, unless you were somehow blaming the cop for this. Sorry.

[thinksnow]

Biggirl
Well, not only is the post full of typing errors and the like, it's also not very clear (to me anyway). It could be that I need my irony detector upgraded. Are you saying, thinksnow, that the Black Panthers incited the riots and that people don't usually riot in their own neighborhoods and rioters are not random in the things they destroy?

No, I my point is that outsiders that are getting all up in arms about race and whatnot are nothing but rabblerousers. My ISP is wicked slow today, but I'll go digging for a cite on this later if you can't find the info: the number of black officers involved in the shootings might surprise you. But you never hear about that. You just hear that the "cops shot another black man."

I'm just irritated by the constant slamming of police. The rioters and looters are doing what? Helping present a good image to the city and the country? Helping the neighborhood? Making things better? What, exactly, are these idiots doing? Yeah, break into some stores, pull an old couple out of their car and beat them, set some fires. Boy, they are really showing how wrong those cops are, how misplaced the police are to be on guard.
Did you know the information Rue DeDay presented? Did you catch Sam Donaldsons interveiw with the Police Chief/Commisioner this morning? Again, I'll look for a transcript, but there is so much that the knee-jerk police bashers are just glossing over and it pisses me off.

[voguevixen]

Thanks, Rue DeDay, that was interesting. Am I correct in assuming these were the shooting deaths of blacks by police, or is this all the suspects shot by police in recent years of all races? I didn't see it mentioned. Is it naive of me to assume white people make trouble for the police and get shot (at) too, and that it just doesn't get played up at all or as much?

[thinksnow]

IIRC, no white persons were slain by the police during the time period in question. Google (http://www.google.com) was being a PITA, so I wasn't able to dig up figures on the number of whites (or blacks, for that matter) that may have been injured by the police. I do recall that the city, in general, has an astonishing number of black-on-black shootings per year, too, though.

[Rue DeDay]

voguevixen, yeah those were the shooting deaths of blacks by police. Sorry I was vague about it. Too cheesed off to properly proof read.

Weirddave, no I don't blame the cops for Courtney Mathis. I blame his parents. A 12 year old tooling around town at 2 a.m. in a relative's (stolen) car. How does this happen? Another thread for another time. Unfortunately something will come up, and probably soon, that will make this all too topical again.


On the up-side, the curfew seems to be working. It was pushed back to 11:00 last night. People seem to be calming down a bit. The freaking cold weather we're getting for the next few days could help too.

[red_dragon60]

The riot be the rhyme of the unheard.


I am also in Ohio. I think the riots went too far. How does breaking into a clothing store justify an innocent death? It would be different of there were rallies, church vigils, meetings on why it happened. Seems that the cops set off a spark in a room long filled with gas vapours. The Cinncinati people were waiting to riot; they just needed an excuse. I am all for riots, as long as they mean something. The first day, they were rioting because of a shooting. The rest of the time, they were rioting just to riot.

[hapaXL]

voguevixen, I just wanted to offer my sincerest apologies for berating you on a point that I misunderstood. Thank you for responding with a cool head when I obviously didn't deserve it. I explained that it was a touchy subject for me and still managed to overreact--I guess I have issues. Hope I haven't soured my reputation with you and everybody in this thread. Is this an acceptable effort for my first groveling apology post?

...more than happy to be leaving the country for 3 months so this will all be forgotten...

stuffinb, I'm just around the corner from Main Library, the Chinatown side of Lake Merritt.

[voguevixen]

Not a problem, Hapa, it's a touchy subject for everyone. Your apology shows a lot of class. (Especially for someone from OAKLAND!) :D Hehehehehehe!

[Stuffy]

stuffinb, I'm just around the corner from Main Library, the Chinatown side of Lake Merritt.

I know it well. I'm in there about twice a month.