Philip Morris = KKK?

[Sake Samurai]

Have you ever really inspected the packaging of Marlboro cigarettes?

A black friend of mine recently pointed out why he refuses to buy any product from Philip Morris. He showed me (on a hard pack of regulars) that there are three and exactly three large red K's on the box. Seeing as he had to tilt the box 90 degrees to show me, I was VERY skeptical at this point (they looked more like stylized chevrons to me). But. . .then he asked me to look closely between the lion's legs at the outline. Sure enough, it resembled two KKK clansmen holding the "Marlboro" banner!

Now is this like the face on Mars or the REAL DEAL?

[RealityChuck]

Do you really think that if Philip Morris had any connection to the KKK, they'd put it on their packaging for all to see?

Philip Morris is older than the KKK by several years (it started in London after the Crimean War). Their logo probably is of that vintage.

Sounds like Bald R. Dash to me.

[dwtno]

Yeah, that's the way to secretly fund an odious organization - print your calling card all over the product.

I've come to the conclusion that these sort of "products secretly backed by" theories are hatched by people who believe criminals actually leave rhymes, clues and other hints for the police to make it "more sporting" (ala Batman's The Riddler).

Seriously, people! Proctor & Gamble is not a satinist cult, Snapple does promote the slave trade and I sincerely doubt that Marlboro is backing the KKK. Granted, these are Big, Evil Corporations, but they want your money, not your soul. There's no profit margin in alienating your customers.

That being said, I don't doubt that someone, somewhere is funneling corporate money into hate groups, but you and I don't know about and we probably ever will.

[Just Ed]

Snapple does promote the slave trade

I knew it!!

[Sake Samurai]

O.K. a couple of simple opinions, but no facts - has anyone even examined the damn packaging?

It doesn't matter which organization is older - what I want to know is if there is a blatant connection between Philip Morris & the KKK apparant on their packaging.

Please look at the cigarette label and THEN reply. I'm interested to know what everyone thinks - I already know that you're all skeptical.

[Zulu]

Try http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/weekly/aa041598.htm

[Sake Samurai]

ZULU - thanks for the link. Not much actual info there though. I'm sure the company would deny any association with the KKK. And they don't even address the two clansmen (or pseudoclansmen) on the front.

What's your opinion?

[Zulu]

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted facts, not opinions.

I'm sure the company would deny any association with the KKK.

Then why would they be stupid enough to print 3 big red K's on their product? And print a picture of two klansmen? (Which I don't think look anything like klansmen at all)

Why would a company risk losing so many consumers by advertising a connection to a hate group? It would a vastly idiotic move. It goes against all business sense. If they were connected in any way (which I think is doubtful) I'm sure they would keep it as secretive as possible. They wouldn't want something as explosive at that getting out, so there's no way they would print anything so incriminating on a package.

In short, I think that there is no way that Philip Morris is connected to the Ku Klux Klan.

[aseymayo]

OK, I looked at the package. The negative space between the animals' legs can be interpreted as two white figures holding a banner - if the drugs you're using are good enough. I find it very hard to believe the KKK would be involved with anything that subtle. I think they all smoke Burning Kross brand cigarettes.

It doesn't matter which organization is older

It doesn't? Pretty amazing, those advertising guys - putting secret symbols in their logos that actually predict the rise of an organization. In another country, yet.

[Doug Bowe]

Zulu makes excellent points.
PM is a huge company with a huge number of workers. A story like this, if true, could not survive without a leak for very long.
Every news reporter and news organization in North America would kill to get concrete information on something like this.
To date I haven't seen Ted Koppel covering it.
If Phillip Morris can be faulted for failing to address this question, please note that they are failing to address a lot of questions right now.
I bet they wish the only controversy surrounding their products was a simple as a KKK connection.

[DrFidelius]

Okay then wise guys, explain the man with the erection and huge breasts on the Camel pack!

Ha! Run rings around you logically...

I don't think there's any CONNECTION between Philip Morris and the KKK, but certainly P.M. is by far the more evil of the two organizations.

How many people have actually been killed by the Klan? A few hundred, maybe even a couple of thousand, over the last 100 years? Child's play! Philip Morris kills that many people every month.

Besides, you could argue that the Klan acts out of genuinely-held beliefs, as twisted and sick as they may be. Philip Morris kills people solely for money, which in my opinion is far worse.

So please, don't insult the Klan by associating them with Philip Morris!

[tomndebb]

And you don't think that the profit motive is a "genuinely-held belief"?

[HubZilla]

Please look at the cigarette label and THEN reply. I'm interested to know what everyone thinks - I already know that you're all skeptical.

Do we have to keep going with this until we agree with you?

As for those of you who vigorously deny that companies are not involved with the KKK, Satanic cults, UFOs, etc... well, that's what they want you to believe ;)

On the other hand, if people stop smoking becuase of conspiracy theories, well, maybe that's not altogether a bad thing. End justifies this means in this case.


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"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument" - William McAdoo

[HubZilla]

How many people have actually been killed by the Klan? A few hundred, maybe even a couple of thousand, over the last 100 years? Child's play! Philip Morris kills that many people every month.

It could also be argued that gang killings and black-on-black crimes kill more people than the Klan could ever dream of (but that's another thread...).

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"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument" - William McAdoo

[Ukulele Ike]

I'm STILL looking for those "three very large red Ks." I see the two little klansmen, very cool. But those Ks are throwing me.

Are they just TOO obvious? Am I trying too hard? Is this like the "Big Dubble-yuh" in IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD?

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Uke

[Kvallulf]

The two "Klansmen" seem to more resemble mirror images of Fatso from the Casper cartoon.

[Melatonin]

They also say that if you stare long enough at any textured surface (tile, carpet) you can see stereogram in it.

So, if you stare long enough, and want to believe hard enough, and say "I DO believe in faeries," then, sure, you can imagine that the red triangles framing the Marlboro package are meant to represent the letter K. I personally lost the desire to try by the age of 15, though.

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Life is short. Make fun of it.

[Lumpy]

I'm still waiting to hear about the guy with the erection on the Camel packs. Or did Cecil cover that one once?

[mangeorge]

Cigarettes don't kill people, people kill people. (Themselves)
Peace,
mangeorge

"It could also be argued that gang killings and black-on-black crimes kill more people than the Klan could ever dream of (but that's another thread...)."
---HubZilla
---------------------------------------
So what's your point, Hub. I hope this isn't some kind of rationale in support of the existence of groups like the KKK.
Peace,
mangeorge

[Sake Samurai]

Boy, facts are few and far between on this page!

I did some "research" and found that Philip Morris opened his tobacco shop in London in 1847 which was about twenty years before the KKK arose in Pulaski, Tennessee. To some that would seem to be proof that there is no connection.

Others might notice that the official crest of P.M. looked a tad different then. The lions pose is not quite the same. There is no way to discern a hooded figure in the old crest. Some contemporary printings of their crest reflect a similar discrepancy - but never on their tobacco products, at least not that I've seen.

The Marlboro brand was not introduced until 1955. The three red "K"s were plastered on the side and the crest slightly altered.

Although the fact that nobody here really sees what I do, I must conclude that I need to:

1. Put the damn Marlboro cigarettes down
2. That goes for the shrooms too
3. Buy a pack of Camels so I can at least have some erotica in my paranoia

[tomndebb]

You're probably right that you are not going to get the hard evidence you are looking for. On the other hand, as noted, do you suppose Philip Morris is going to hand out press releases pointing to their connections?

Some additional circumstantial evidence that you may accept or reject at your liesure/pleasure:

I don't see three K's unless (as you indicated) I twist the box at a wierd angle to see the standard white chevron against the red backdrop repeated on more than one side.

Going to eBay to look for older Marlboro images, I found a 1945 P.M. "coat of arms" in which no hooded figures could be found among the legs of the horse and the pard/lion.

Going to eBay I found a 1951 image (prior to the mid-50's repackaging) that had no chevrons (hence no K's).

The Southern Poverty Law Center (which has been trying to bankrupt the Klan, one coven at a time), has never taken on Philip Morris in a lawsuit, nor has it accused P. M. of underwriting Klan activities. (SPLC gets "the books" of every klan outfit that it can find.)

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Tom~

[Doug Bowe]

When you buy that pack of Camels, Sake, take a good look at the half dollars you use.
Kennedy was a Communist, you know. And if you look at the bottom of his picture on the coin you'll see a very small hammer and sickle as proof!

[Sake Samurai]

Sure, Doug! That's fascinating. I mentioned I wanted my paranoid musings to be erotic from now on and you bring up sickles?

I'm pretty adventurous, but razor sharp curved instuments are WAY out of my league.

And I've had it with Krazy Kennedy Konspiracy.

[aseymayo]

Dr. Fi - how many times do we have to tell you? It doesn't count if you draw it yourself. Now leave that camel alone.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Fat ghost. Definitely the fat ghost.

[Ukulele Ike]

Whoops, I see the Ks now!

They're the angled red-and-white pattern on the front, the back, and the bottom of the pack!

Whew, that's pretty creative on the conspiracy-theorists' part. Kudos!

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Uke

[Sake Samurai]

These conspiracy nuts are very creative. My friend's reasoning was:

1. P.M. USA has traditionally been run by rich-southern-plantation-living-slave-owning white folk.

2. The company has a snotty upper-class crest.

3. The crest has two Klansmen depicted holding the corporate banner.

4. They even had the nerve to put three Ks on the package for all to see.

5. They must hate black folk.

6. Ban P.M.

7. Kill whitey!!!

[Sake Samurai]

Flora: You'd be surprised. Much of the supremist elite are also on the social register - a lot of old money there. It's a bit naive to assume they're all trailer park trash.

Although it's not a bit naive to say they're all full of shit.

Mjollnir: Enlighten me - I presume he's a crackpot?

[Ringo]

My Marlboro pack has been whispering to me all morning, but I'm NOT going to listen to it!

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Here's a start: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-0135355-5012215

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Oh, heck, that didn't work--just plug it into the amazon search.

He imagines all sorts of images in advertising.

Cecil addressed some of his ideas in "More of the Straight Dope."

I first came across his "Subliminal Seduction" book when I was 18, and even at that naive age--I saw he was nuts (or at least possessing an overly active imagination--or just trying to sell books).

[Ringo]

Mj

Are you trying to get dragonfly99 cranked up again?

[Ukulele Ike]

{Warning: yet ANOTHER obscure book review from the pedantic Ukulele Ike, on the subject of claas warfare among White Supremacists}

George Schuyler's BLACK NO MORE (1931): a very funny satiric novel about an African-American scientist who develops a process to turn black people into white people.

Schuyler rips into, among other targets, the Klan, the Federal Government, and the "talented tenth" of the African-American community.

While he's somewhat gentle with most of his subjects...the lowbrow racists and snooty Harlem Renaissance-type blacks receive only mild spankings...Schuyler reserves his greatest loathing for the upper-crust, old Southern aristocrat racists. The representatives of this social class end up mutilated and lynched.

Kinda spoils the rollicking good humor at the end there, but hey, I didn't say it was a literary classic. Well worth reading, though.

[Alphagene]

Ya like Malboro racist conspiracy theories? Chew on this:

Take one pack of Malboros. Turn it upside-down. Look at the "Marboro" logo upside down. What does it spell? ojoqljew. But with a great deal of imagination it spells orobljew, which pronounced phonetically is "Horrible Jew". Further proof!

Psshht.


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"The world ends when I die. And as far as I'm concerned, the rest of the universe might as well call it a day too." -- Matt Groening

"The company has a snotty upper-class crest."

Since when has the Klan been snotty or upper class? I thought they were mostly pig-ignorant white trash!

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Sake:

Don't suppose your friend is named "Wilson Bryan Key?"

[Akatsukami]

Klansmen? Klansmen?


It should be obvious that those white spaces are intended to represent Rosicrucians.


Obviously, a disinformation campaign on their part to distract us from the real plans of the Secret Masters.

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"Kings die, and leave their crowns to their sons. Shmuel HaKatan took all the treasures in the world, and went away."

[capacitor]

Hah, good stories folks. I have one, and this is true. When Wizards of the Coast originally put out Magic: The Gathering, the popular card collecting game, in booster packs, those packs were proven to be translucent. You can see what cards were inside when you hold a booster pack up in the store light. You can shift the cards until you can see the fourth one; that is the rare card. Now I know how Jon Finkel managed to get all of the good cards he plays. (Seriously, he is an outstanding player.) Anyway, in late 1998, they produced new aluminun-lined booster packs so that no one can possibly see through them.

Oh by the way, 7734 is the real number to look out for.

[andygirl]

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/marlboro.htm

Read the link- it covers the subject quite well.

andygirl, the urban legend scholar.

[manhattan]

There are two versions of this question currently active in GQ. I'm going to close this one despite the high quality of responses, mostly because reading that <BLOCKQUOTE> stuff from the old board drives me up a wall.

The other thread is here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=33521).