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Demise
04-26-2001, 03:45 PM
I received this "petition" via e-mail, and was wondering at the accuracy. The Taliban may be Muslim extremists, but are they actually treating women any worse than other Muslim counties? Here is the body of the e-mail. I removed the actual e-mail address.

If you decide not to forward this, please send it back to email@removed.com . This is an actual petition, and "signatures" will be lost if you drop the line.

Please take 3 minutes out of your life to do your part. And be sure to include other members of your household who are willing to sign. Oprah recently had a show about this atrocity and it was heartbreaking.

Petition to the United Nations Background Information:

Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging a war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her arm(!) while she was driving. Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a man that was not a relative.

Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional women such as professors, translators, doctors,lawyers, artists and writers have been forced from their jobs and restricted to their homes. Homes where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or begging in the street,even if they hold Ph.D.'s. Depression is becoming so widespread that it has reached emergency levels. There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that the suicide rate among women must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot find proper medication and treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in such
conditions. At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat,or do anything, but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear.

It is at the point where the term "human rights violations" has become an understatement. Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way. Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to dress generally as they wanted, and to drive and appear in public alone until only 1996. The rapidity of this transition is the main reason for the depression and suicide; Women who were once educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely restricted and treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 'culture', but it is alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule. Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are women in a Muslim country.

If we can threaten military force in Kosovo the name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, murder and injustice committed against women by the Taliban.

STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by the United Nations and that the current situation overseas will not be tolerated.

Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere, and it is UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2001 to be treated as subhuman and as so much property. Equality and human decency is a fundamental RIGHT, not a freedom to be granted,whether one lives in Afghanistan or elsewhere.

Can this e-mail be debunked, or is it accurate? If it is accurate, is it a far more severe treatment of women than other Muslim countries practice? For example, I find it very hard to believe that any woman intelligent and resourceful enough to have a Ph.D. would have not found a way to leave the county. Not to mention the fact that Oprah having had a "heartbreaking" show about the subject makes me a bit cynical as well. How much of this is real, and how much is based on Oprah-ganda?

zev_steinhardt
04-26-2001, 04:07 PM
Snopes (http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/petition/afghani.htm
) has it as true. However, one wonders how much good can be done by passing around this email. After all, Afghanastan is a rouge nation and I highly doubt that anything any other country says to them will matter at all.


Zev Steinhardt

zev_steinhardt
04-26-2001, 04:09 PM
Let's try that link (http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/petition/afghani.htm) again.

Zev Steinhardt

Freyr
04-26-2001, 04:11 PM
What I'm curious about is the line;

If you decide not to forward this, please send it back to email@removed.com . This is an actual petition, and "signatures" will be lost if you drop the line.

That makes it sound like one of the "chain letter curses" to me. Any clue if this is true or not?

alice_in_wonderland
04-26-2001, 05:14 PM
Well, sadly, I think the jist of the post is correct.

I've asked one of my female Muslim friends about it, and this is certainly not how ALL Muslim women are treated. She is from Malaysia and has expressed that she is uncomfortable around more fundamentalist Muslims (particularly men).

When home (in Malaysia) she doesn't have to cover her face/hair, etc. She is just required to dress "conservatively". However, so are her male counterparts.

So don't paint the entire religion with the same brush.

Regarding the post, I don't think signing an e-mail petition will do too much good at all.

Dangerosa
04-26-2001, 05:17 PM
The facts are pretty much true. E-mail petitions are usually false and when they aren't false, pretty useless.

But, if you want to check the facts, and do something about it, I'll recommend the Feminist Majority Foundation [www.feminist.org]

It is a far more extreme treatment of women than most Muslim countries, and most Muslims consider it not in keeping with the Koran.

Tamerlane
04-26-2001, 05:33 PM
The Taliban may be Muslim extremists, but are they actually treating women any worse than other Muslim countries?

Yes. Quite a bit worse. It's a continuum of course, with some Muslim cultures being significantly more or less patriarchal than others, but the Taliban are far and away the worst offenders. To start with they are members of the Wahabi sect of the Sunni branch of Islam, transmitted via Saudi Arabia, already an extremely conservative body ( Saudi Arabia ranks fairly high on the repression-o-meter as well ). To that they've added a plethora of reactionary ideals that frankly seem to spring far less ( or not at all ) from the teachings of Islam and far more from the conservative tribal hill culture of backcountry Afghanistan. Iran to the West ( actually all their neighbors ) are oases of enlightenment compared to Taliban controlled Afghanistan.

Islam is no different from any other Judeo-Christian religion in that it is open to enough interpretation that people can call themselves Muslims ( or Christians, or Jews ) while still having considerably different standards as to what is the proper role of the sexes.

- Tamerlane

Collounsbury
04-26-2001, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Demise
The Taliban may be Muslim extremists, but are they actually treating women any worse than other Muslim counties?


Without the slightest doubt. Significantly and unambiguously worse.

Is it accurate? If it is accurate,


It appears largely accurate.

is it a far more severe treatment of women than other Muslim countries practice?


By far and away as others have noted.


For example, I find it very hard to believe that any woman intelligent and resourceful enough to have a Ph.D. would have not found a way to leave the county.
[/qutoe]

Then you are naive. Fleeing a country without papers to another country, finding safe haven, perhaps abandoning family is not a trivial matter. In fact, in the case of Afghanistan, it can be bloody dangerous to curl your comfortable toesies.
[quote]
Not to mention the fact that Oprah having had a "heartbreaking" show about the subject makes me a bit cynical as well. How much of this is real, and how much is based on Oprah-ganda?


So you have issues with Oprah large enough to disregard fairly easily documented (an internet search with reliable sites being easy enough) abuses by the Taliban?

On the other hand, the Taliban could give a fuck about such petitions.

MEBuckner
04-26-2001, 07:38 PM
...Afghanastan is a rouge nation....
Actually I'm pretty sure that cosmetics are on the Taliban's list of no-no's.

capacitor
04-26-2001, 08:20 PM
It really doesn't matter; I believe that the Taliban banned computers as well as TV. As was said before, the petition is pretty useless.

ITR champion
04-26-2001, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Demise
The Taliban may be Muslim extremists, but are they actually treating women any worse than other Muslim counties?


Yes they are. There are many Islamic countries where women are treated much better. Pakistan has had a female prime minister. It is true that even countries such as Pakistan do have expectations for how women will dress and behave that we would consider sexist, but there are also rules for men's behavior that are different from ours.

lindz
04-27-2001, 07:41 PM
Check out this website http://www.rawa.org- it explains everything

MEBuckner
04-28-2001, 10:48 PM
The above link should go to the webpage of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (http://rawa2.stellarhouse.com/index.htm).

Incidentally, I was just thrilled to read the RAWA statement on the black day of April 28: 28th April is gloomier than 27th of April (http://rawa2.stellarhouse.com/apr28-01.htm).

Gee, today was also Saddam Hussein's birthday (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/04/23/iraq.saddam.holiday.reut/index.html).

I shudder to think what my horoscope must look like. It's a wonder my mother didn't drown me at birth.