Microsoft, you win. I give up. [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-27-2001, 05:45 AM

(This is an open letter to Bill Gates.)

Dear pathetic nerd,

For years, I stuck it out with Netscape instead of IE because I don't want to be a party to your quest for global domination. Not that I have any real problem with that, but your program sucks and has all sorts of security holes. Do you plan it that way deliberately? What better way to serve your Illuminati buddies than to plant defects and back doors into your software? That way you can spy on all us helpless slave customers while you laugh it up by the pool.

But recently, I've been going to a lot of game sites which are *not* Netscape compatible. For the first time in my life, I started using IE on a regular basis. My God, you really like to make things difficult, don't you?? I can't figure out how to organize the goddamn bookmarks (which you call "favorites" for some dumb reason), and why the FUCK do you make it so clicking on a file link RUNS THE FILE instead of automatically downloading it?? I'm fucking tired of having to right-click and choose "Save Target" every fucking time I want to grab a fucking zip file! Oh yeah, just about every other page running javascript causes an error, although that's probably because I haven't bothered to download version 5.0 yet.

Netscape was sooo much more user-friendly; it had its problems, but for my money it was the far better program. Unfortunately, there is no Netscape anymore, thanks to you. The latest Netscape is a piece of junk, I suppose they spent too much money on lawyers to afford good programmers. Or maybe you have agents bringing them down from the inside. Hmm, that's probably it.

I'll still use Netscape 4.7 for pages it can handle, such as the SDMB. But for everything else, I have no choice but to use IE. I hate your program, I hate you, but I'm sick of fighting progress. I'm becoming a slave to your global domination plan and I can do nothing about it. Hope you're happy, you four-eyed rat-faced drooling geek. Hope you choke on your million dollars.

Sincerely,
J.E.T.

BoBettie

04-27-2001, 06:11 AM

Hope you choke on your million dollars.

Hate to break it to you, but I think the four-eyed, rat faced, drooling geek is into the billions.

Resistence is futile.

Zette

Evnglion

04-27-2001, 07:09 AM

dude, Jeremy's Twin, breathe...Microsoft sucks, yes, but there's no reason to get huffy, all these things can be easily fixed.
I can't figure out how to organize the goddamn bookmarks

All you gotta do is explore your c drive, and find those favorites. It can be in different locations depending on how you instaled it, but it is usually something like c:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\Favorites. Once you find it, you can just organize them however you please.

Then get something like Download Accelerator (only get it if you are on DSL or Cable)...that'll fix all your DL problems

Liberal

04-27-2001, 07:25 AM

You can also organize them directly on the drop-down menu by simply dragging and dropping them wherever you want them to go, or by right-clicking to sort them all by name, for example.

Tansu

04-27-2001, 07:54 AM

There's an 'Organise Favourites' option on the Favourites drop-down menu in IE5.

friedo

04-27-2001, 09:22 AM

All's I gots to say is Konqueror (http://www.konqueror.org/konq-browser.html).

Truly the best integrated web/file browser I've ever seen. Doesn't support things like ILAYERs yet, though, but for basic browsing it is far superior to Netscape/Mozilla, IE, Opera, iCab, et cetera.

AHunter3

04-27-2001, 09:29 AM

Can't you just make an alias (or, on Windows, shortcut) to your Netscape bookmarks file, rename the alias "Favorites.html", and put it where Explorer expects to find it?

Necros

04-27-2001, 11:35 AM

No, because IE uses a separate file for each bookmark, as opposed to one integrated file like Netscape. It wouldn't understand what the heck to do with a Netscape-looking bookmark file.

yabob

04-27-2001, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Necros
No, because IE uses a separate file for each bookmark, as opposed to one integrated file like Netscape. It wouldn't understand what the heck to do with a Netscape-looking bookmark file.
The netscape bookmark file is an html document, which allows it to simply be displayed by any browser. It's just a bunch of nested <DL> lists of links corresponding to the bookmarks and titles corresponding to the folder structure. I've opened my Netscape bookmarks in IE many times.

TPWombat

04-27-2001, 01:55 PM

I've said it before and I am saying it again :

"Bill Gates is a Big Poo"

SPOOFE

04-27-2001, 04:18 PM

Sigh.

"I'm not used to IE's interface so Bill Gates is evil!"

Brilliant logic.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-27-2001, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly
"I'm not used to IE's interface so Bill Gates is evil!"

Brilliant logic.

Ehh, not quite. Bill Gates is evil because he wants to subjugate the world to his will and his shitty software. What I hate the most is that MS programs will do things like change your settings and not give you a choice to fix it. I just installed IE 5.5 and somehow it changed my Windows Explorer (the file manager) so it makes clicking noises whenever I click on something...I fucking hate it and I CAN'T MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!

How hard would it be for a tab that says "Options" or "Preferences"? Netscape was easy to figure out, this IE shit boggles the mind. It's totally non-intuitive.

Max Torque

04-27-2001, 05:07 PM

Hey, look on the bright side: Gates isn't the richest guy in the world anymore. Well, at least technically. Larry Ellison (http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,35871,00.html) of Oracle just passed him.

And about the OP: I'll keep using Netscape 4.7 until they either produce another browser that's worth a damn or I die, whichever comes first. Besides, I don't much care for all them fancy web doodads; half the time I browse with Java and Javascript turned off.

Necros

04-27-2001, 05:14 PM

The netscape bookmark file is an html document, which allows it to simply be displayed by any browser.

That's not what AHunter3 was talking about, though. Your method will not use Netscape bookmarks in the same way (via the Favorites pull-down) as it uses IE bookmarks.

Una Persson

04-27-2001, 05:20 PM

I agree with the OP for the most part. I am still using Netscape 4.7, and think that 6.0 and Mozilla are both pieces of crap. So, I have started converting myself to IE to see all the sites and pages I cannot see in Netscape. I don't want to, but must. Sigh. I hate losing the battle.

Drastic

04-27-2001, 05:20 PM

control panel --> sounds, where all Windows sounds get configured.

Irritating, but hardly cryptic.

Recently, it was reported that The Bill is now only the second-richest fellow in the world; the lower-profile Walton heir (of the Walmart Empire) has taken the lead. However, I'm positive that all of their actions have been ethically above-board. now where's that poker-face smiley...

I've never thought of Gates as Satan, as many seem to do. Simply a dangerously powerful Geek Elemental, who like many others, needs desperately to put high school behind them for the sake of us all.

Drastic

04-27-2001, 05:26 PM

Coulda sworn I'd read that the Walmart fellow was the one; obviously I'm wrong. Nevertheless, I'm certain that Oracle has always been ethically above-board, and an intensive investigation would certainly uncover nothing suspicious in their behavior. Certain, I tell you. Stop looking at me like that.

yabob

04-27-2001, 06:13 PM

Forbes has a database of the 400 richest Americans, updated annually, which you can query in a number of ways:

http://www.forbes.com/400richest/

For a long time, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates were battling it out. For 2000, Buffet slipped behind Ellison and Allen as well. I suspect he may be reasserting himself. Look at the recent fortunes of BRKA versus MSFT.

The Walmart FORTUNE may beat Gates, but it is split among at least 5 heirs. If you expand the Forbes listing, you will notice that there is a 6-way tie for 7th place, and that 5 of the six are Walton's - 17 billion each.

Nevertheless, I'm certain that Oracle has always been ethically above-board, and an intensive investigation would certainly uncover nothing suspicious in their behavior. Certain, I tell you. Stop looking at me like that.

How do you get your tongue that far back in your cheek without choking on it?

(For the record, Larry Ellison makes Gates look like a pussycat)

Monster104

04-27-2001, 07:13 PM

I don't want to be a party to your quest for global domination
What better way to serve your Illuminati buddies than to plant defects and back doors into your software?
I'm becoming a slave to your global domination plan and I can do nothing about it
Bill Gates is evil because he wants to subjugate the world to his will and his shitty software

My, someone's a hysteric.

Unfortunately, there is no Netscape anymore, thanks to you.

Actually, there's no Netscape thanks to AOL. Not like that's a big problem, Netscape is a bigger piece of shit that IE is.

And if you think MS makes shitty software...then DON'T USE IT, you whiny ass. You can use linux and Wordperfect and other web browsers. I don't think MS makes perfect software, but a lot of it is FAR better than the competition.

Manduck

04-27-2001, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Jeremy's Evil Twin
it makes clicking noises whenever I click on something...I fucking hate it and I CAN'T MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!

I can help you with this at least: Open the "sounds" applet in your control panel. In the Events list you will see events called "Start Navigation" and "Complete Navigation". Set the sounds for those events to "(None)".

Yue Han

04-27-2001, 10:45 PM

You whiny bitches. Some of this has been said before, but here it is again.

Organizing favorites:
a) click on Favorites
b) Scroll down to Organize Favorites
OR
a) Open favorites
b) Drag and drop the links you want to move.
Bada-bing.

Changing sounds:
a) Click on Start. As much as people whine, this is where you START doing anything that is not obviously on your desktop.
b) Go to Settings, because you want to change the settings.
c) Go to the Control Panel.
d) Click on Sounds.
e) Change it!

God, if you don't know to go to Control Panel to personalize the settings on your computer, you don't know shit about using Windows. Which is fine, terrific, keep you ignorance on that topic, but don't bitch about how the OS is stupid because you don't know how to use it.

--John

Biggirl

04-27-2001, 11:13 PM

I may be wrong but I think the bitch here is that Jeremy has to learn the interface whether he wants to or not.

All of you know you have no choice. You can cry and you can beat your chests-- it doesn't matter. Your only refuge is Mac.

Feel the power of the four-eyed, rat-faced, drooling billionaire geek. Even the Supreme Court will be unable to stop him. Bill Gates will take over the world and you can't stop him.

Mwahahaahahhahhha

capacitor

04-27-2001, 11:19 PM

Well said Yue Han.

Webmasters are seething because Netscape has become so different than original Mosaic that they have to redesign their web sites in the hope that Netscape can read it.

Also, this is very funny, I can't access http://www.netscape.com using Netscape 6.

It also doesn't help that Netscape has some security holes that were never patched. At least MS is consantly working on their browser.

Netscape lost the browser war because, as The Rock would say, "It absolutely sucks!"

Sterra

04-27-2001, 11:48 PM

Heh, I use netscape at school and explorer at home. I don't really have any problems with either for anything.(though one ubb forum slowed down a little when it was upgraded on netscape)

Your probelm is probably that you actually upgrade your browsers, thats a bad bad thing.

Monster104

04-27-2001, 11:48 PM

I may be wrong but I think the bitch here is that Jeremy has to learn the interface whether he wants to or not

If he doesn't want to learn it, GET SOMETHING ELSE. No one is forcing you to do it (Despite all the idiotic claims that Gates is trying to take over the world :rolleyes:). You can use linux. You can even use a Mac if you want (And damn yourself for eternity ;)). Either way, you still HAVE to learn the interface in order to do anything on a computer!

Therefore, the bitch can't be about having to learn the interface. He's bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's a rant based on his own lack of knowledge on the subject.

Monster104

04-27-2001, 11:51 PM

Damn damn damn damn.

First smiley bastard. That should be a :rolleyes:, not a ;)

Dammit.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-28-2001, 01:03 AM

Manduck and Drastic, thank you THANK you for saving me from a complete nervous breakdown. It was driving me so crazy I turned the speakers off, except it was also coming out of the CASE speaker as well...GAH!!! GAH!!!!! (Insert sloppy wet sound of JET tearing his face off.)

Now, as for the rest of you cocksuckers...

Yue Han, don't stick your dick in my face, unless you pay me first. I've been using computers since the Apple II+ and though I'm no systems analyst, I know my way around a system better than most people. And I tell you, Microsoft has the shittiest, most user-unfriendly, most confusingly set up programs I've seen, ever. I already said that my main beef is that the programs DO STUFF YOU DO NOT WANT THEM TO DO!!! When I installed IE 5.5, did I *ask* for it to change my default sounds? I don't think so!! And how hard would it be to add a simple "Preferences" or "Options" tab to these goddamn programs?? If a smart guy like me can't figure out where the sound options are, what chance does your regular Joe computer user have of figuring it out? You need to work on your attitude, little man.

Monster104, believe me, I'd use something other than MS if I could, unfortunately it's the standard and I need to know it anyway for my job(s) so I'd have to use it no matter what even if I installed Linux or other non-MS software and maintaining two operating systems is far more trouble than I feel it's worth. And I only upgraded IE because it was having javascript errors on every other page (I was still using 4.0, well that's what I had since installing Win98 though I never used it.)

Monster104

04-28-2001, 01:16 AM

Well, then I guess you'll like Windows XP. They changed a lot of the clunky stuff of previous versions, and added a lot more functiality (And the help sections actually help!).

However, there are Options tabs. In IE, it's in Tools/Internet Options. That doesn't seem unintuitive to me.

Yue Han

04-28-2001, 01:29 AM

Fuck you, asshole. Why exactly do I need to work on my attitude with a pathetic bitch who can't figure out how to use his own computer? I've used an Apple IIe before too. I didn't realize we needed to list off the peice of shit computers we've used before we could tell you you were wrong

--John

SPOOFE

04-28-2001, 01:49 AM

If a smart guy like me can't figure out where the sound options are, what chance does your regular Joe computer user have of figuring it out?

That brilliant argument first assumes that you're a smart guy, and the evidence for that notion is sorely lacking.

Don't like Microsoft? Then don't buy their products. "But I HAVE to!" No you don't. "Yes I do, it's the standard!" Then deviate from the norm. "But it's difficult to get set up with other software!" I thought using Windows was difficult, too.

The bottom line: JET is a whiny, lazy little prick.

Bosstone

04-28-2001, 01:58 AM

[...]though I'm no systems analyst, I know my way around a system better than most people.

Considering the amount of people who have access to computers nowadays, this isn't saying a whole hell of a lot. If you did know your way around "a system", in this case Windows, you'd be quite familiar with Control Panel and the options contained therein. Control Panel is exactly what it's called; it's where you control the OS itself. A user should be at the very least reasonably knowledgeable about what the stuff on Control Panel does, since it handles a LOT of the aspects of Windows itself. If you actually bothered to take the time and poke around in Windows, you'd have known this. But a "smart guy" like you already knows all he needs to know, right? :rolleyes: Somehow I imagine your desktop looking exactly as it does when Windows is installed for the first time, because you haven't found the Display settings through Control Panel yet. Guess what- you can actually put your own pictures up, too! *gasp!* You mean the display is customizable, as well as the sounds?! No!

I like Windows. It works for me. Yeah, it's got its problems, but it works. I know how to use it. Because I know how to use it, it does what I want it to. Try not ranting and get to know the software you're using if you feel you can't change to another OS.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-28-2001, 06:14 AM

All right, assholes, since I'm obviously dumb as a post and you're all so fucking smart, tell me how to make IE stop making that fucking "alert" sound every time a download window closes. I'll send a cherry pie to the first person who tells me how it's done.

SPOOFE, I'm surprised at you, maybe being "different" computer-wise is easy for you but I don't have time to learn and handle 2 separate operating systems. As for programs, I already try and use non-MS products (Netscape instead of IE, Norton DiskDoctor instead of Scandisk, ICQ instead of whatever MS uses for instant messaging); the problem is that, in the case of Netscape, it's become outdated because Microsoft has been rabidly pushing its browser on everyone and creating special standards that make it all but impossible to browse certain pages with anything *but* IE. Believe me, I would like anything in the world to have a non-MS browser that actually WORKS on every page I read. I don't appreciate your hostile reaction and I think you and Yue Han should go suck each other off some more.

And I don't care what anyone says, I know I'm smarter than the Average Joe computer user. Maybe not compared to you guys, but shit, at least I know what a zip file is and what it means when asked to "press any key". (Try reading this page (http://rinkworks.com/stupid/) for some REAL computer stupidity!)

Hodge

04-28-2001, 08:26 AM

JET, its not an either/or situation with regard to browsers. I've found Opera (http://www.opera.com) to be sleeker and faster than either Netscape or IE. It also more rigidly conforms to web standards than the other two. The only downside is that it isn't free. However, considering the level of disgust you have for IE, the price might be worth it to you.

Check out CWSApps (http://cws.internet.com/web.html) for other options.

Hodge

SPOOFE

04-28-2001, 04:12 PM

SPOOFE, I'm surprised at you...

[Luke Skywalker]

"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

[/Luke Skywalker]

the problem is that, in the case of Netscape, it's become outdated because Microsoft has been rabidly pushing its browser on everyone

Actually, Netscape has become outdated because the company that makes it hasn't kept their programming up to snuff. Same thing happened with Corel.

I don't appreciate your hostile reaction and I think you and Yue Han should go suck each other off some more.

I just finished sucking him off, and now he's sucking me off as I type. It's quite pleasurable.

As for hostility... if you don't like the way people respond to your posts, maybe you shouldn't be an asshole from the get-go. Your OP is filled with whining, blaming other people for your shortcomings, and general irrational ranting. Your subsequent posts are similarly assholic.

Yue Han gave you very specific instructions with how to customize Windows, with the addendum that if you didn't know how to perform the tasks he described, you don't know shit about the OS. Given the evidence you've displayed in this thread, I (and several others) have found that to be a very accurate statement.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-28-2001, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly
Actually, Netscape has become outdated because the company that makes it hasn't kept their programming up to snuff. Same thing happened with Corel.

And why haven't they kept their programming up to snuff? Because they're spending all their money on lawyers!!! I'll grant that Netscape isn't fully blameless for dropping the ball, though.

As for hostility... if you don't like the way people respond to your posts, maybe you shouldn't be an asshole from the get-go. Your OP is filled with whining, blaming other people for your shortcomings, and general irrational ranting. Your subsequent posts are similarly assholic.

Yue Han gave you very specific instructions with how to customize Windows, with the addendum that if you didn't know how to perform the tasks he described, you don't know shit about the OS. Given the evidence you've displayed in this thread, I (and several others) have found that to be a very accurate statement.

I'm going to say this one more time, and I'll use small words so your pea-sized brain can understand them. It is NOT about whether or not I know my way around the OS. It is the fact that 1) the OS and related programs are inherently non-intuitive (why use Control Panel to customize ALL sounds instead of having a separate sound option for each program?), and 2) the OS does things to your system that you do not tell it to do. You obviously disagree on #1, well maybe you're a C++ programming whiz who takes kickbacks from Mssr. Gates, in which case I give up.

But #2 rightly pisses me off, and it's not about me being stupid. It's about installing IE 5.5 and being very specific about the customizations, and yet it added sounds I didn't want and re-configured my Task Scheduler, WHICH I DID NOT ASK IT TO DO! Do you understand? IT DID THINGS I DID **NOT** WANT IT TO DO!!! Maybe it's my God-complex talking, but I prefer the days of ancient MS-DOS where the computer only did what YOU instructed it to do. I resisted using Win95 for the longest time, because I do not like computers telling ME what options it will give me. That's basically it.

Oh, and I forgot...#3, Bill Gates is an ugly nerdy wimp who only gets pussy because he's rich. Just like you, obviously. Except for the rich part.

SPOOFE

04-28-2001, 07:39 PM

And why haven't they kept their programming up to snuff? Because they're spending all their money on lawyers!!!

Microsoft sued Netscape? When did this happen?

It is NOT about whether or not I know my way around the OS.

It is. You claim that the product is shitty, when in actuality you are simply ignorant about it.

the OS and related programs are inherently non-intuitive (why use Control Panel to customize ALL sounds instead of having a separate sound option for each program?)

"Non-intuitive"? Granted, many aspects of Windows aren't exactly clear, but what better place to put all the controls than the fucking CONTROL PANEL?!? Would you rather that they have the controls set in, say, the Disk Defragmenter?

A separate sound option for each program? Wouldn't that make things MORE complicated, rather than having all the controls centralized?

the OS does things to your system that you do not tell it to do.

No, the OS does things to your system that you don't tell it NOT to do. When you install it, it comes with the default setting. If you weren't such a lazy little prick, you'd have gone through Windows and customized it to your preferences. I know I have. And you know what? 'Twasn't difficult in the slightest.

But #2 rightly pisses me off, and it's not about me being stupid.

You're right, it's about you being lazy.

Do you understand? IT DID THINGS I DID **NOT** WANT IT TO DO!!!

Then why'd you install IE 5.5? It configures itself so that it would work optimally. It assumes that the person installing the software wouldn't be lazy.

#3, Bill Gates is an ugly nerdy wimp who only gets pussy because he's rich. Just like you, obviously.

I see! It all comes clear now! Not only are you a lazy, whiny little prick, but you're also inherently jealous of anyone who has something that you don't!

:rolleyes:

Also, this is the first time I've seen someone use "You get sex" as an insult...

Monster104

04-28-2001, 09:14 PM

1) the OS and related programs are inherently non-intuitive (why use Control Panel to customize ALL sounds instead of having a separate sound option for each program?), and 2) the OS does things to your system that you do not tell it to do. You obviously disagree on #1, well maybe you're a C++ programming whiz who takes kickbacks from Mssr. Gates, in which case I give up.

1) "Intuitive" interface is very subjective (Why spread all the sound options all over your system when you can have them all centralized in one location AND have options for each individual program, as many programs for Windows do?)

2) The OS itself doesn't do things to your system, it's the software you install. Windows is very leniant to programs (a little too leniant in some cases), so if a program is programmed to install AND make changes to other settings around the computer, it will do just that. The OS is just programmed to let this software do what this software was programmed to do.

By the way, what does C++ programming have to do with Microsoft and Gates? And why the hell would make such a stupid statement? It certainly can't be because you're stupid... :rolleyes:

CnoteChris

04-28-2001, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Jeremy's Evil Twin
All right, assholes, since I'm obviously dumb as a post and you're all so fucking smart, tell me how to make IE stop making that fucking "alert" sound every time a download window closes. I'll send a cherry pie to the first person who tells me how it's done.

Since you asked so nicely, I'll tell ya.

Once again, it's in that pesky control panel folder that you seem to hate. Go in there and find the sounds tab. Click it. Goto Events->Windows-> Asterisk. Highlight it. Right below that box is the sound box. Click on the drop-down and change the current sound to -none-.

Presto! Download sound is gone. Why? Because the download sound is associated with an Asterisk event.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-28-2001, 10:38 PM

SPOOFE, you're obviously not understanding a single word I'm saying, so I'm going to ignore you from now on. Except that I didn't mean to imply that you get pussy. What I meant was, Bill Gates is a pathetic nerd who only gets pussy because he's rich. You're a pathetic nerd who *isn't* rich, therefore you don't get pussy. Just had to clear that up.

CnoteChris, I don't want to turn the sound off completely. I want the sound turned off for the IE download box *only*, not completely turned off for all "asterisk" events on my system. IS there a way to do it??

CnoteChris

04-28-2001, 10:58 PM

What version are you running?

SPOOFE

04-29-2001, 12:04 AM

SPOOFE, you're obviously not understanding a single word I'm saying, so I'm going to ignore you from now on.

Translation: "You're obviously too smart for my primate-level intelligence, so I'm going to huddle in a corner and plug my ears."

You're a pathetic nerd who *isn't* rich, therefore you don't get pussy. Just had to clear that up.

'Least I know how to run an operating system, you immature twit.

CnoteChris

04-29-2001, 01:58 AM

* 10:58 PM- Cnote posts, "What Version are you running?" *

* 2:01-AM *

Having a hard time trying to figure that out JET?

City Gent

04-29-2001, 02:02 AM

Saying "If you don't like Microsoft, then don't buy their products" is like saying "If you don't like gasoline, buy an electric car." In principle, people have choices, but in practice, there is damn little choice. Buying an electric car is technically an alternative to gasoline, but it's impractical because there's no infrastructure to support it.

In many parts of the software market, you really have no practical alternatives; it's like being forced to buy an Escort because Ford doesn't feel like manufacturing Mustangs. Whether Microsoft software sucks is really beside the point (in my opinion, Excel is great, Word blows, and Windows is a crime against nature.)

Only a chump would argue that there is any real choice in the software market. Microsoft promotes its own agenda at the expense of its customers' needs, because it can.

It created Windows 98 specifically as a wrapper for Internet Explorer so it could kill Netscape.

Quicken was better than Microsoft Money, but instead of trying to improve Money to gain market share from Quicken, Microsoft tried to buy Quicken. Is that how the free market encourages innovation in software design?

Microsoft put DR-DOS (an old MS-DOS competitor) out of business by penalizing OEM computer makers who wanted to bundle their machines with DR-DOS instead of MS-DOS - they made the OEMs pay for MS-DOS even if MS-DOS wasn't installed on their machines! The ability to do such a thing is prima facie evidence of a monopoly. Also, Microsoft put a "poison pill" in Windows 3.1 specifically so it wouldn't work with DR-DOS; when other companies do that, it's called "product tying" and is illegal.

Microsoft routinely releases "vaporware" - press information about software that doesn't exist yet and may never exist - in order to dissuade consumers from buying other software. When other companies do that, it's called "securities fraud".

Microsoft gives its own software developers inside information about Windows that isn't available to outside developers. "Product tying" again.

Is Microsoft really more evil than other software companies? Probably not - it's just bigger. It does these things because it can.

Monster104

04-29-2001, 02:11 AM

Cnote, maybe I can channel Hastur...

Here goes nothing...

"Fucking nerds! How DARE they make something that operates outside of my comprehension capabilities! Fucking shit-eating glasses-nerd boy rich pussy-getting guy!

I gotta do something! Yeah! I'll go whine and try to make myself look intelligent by talking out of my ass about something that I have no knowledge or understanding of! I'll make fun of the evil tyrant Microsoft, everyone else is doing it!

Those bastardly stupid fucks! They SHOULDN'T put all the controls in one universal, convenient place! I want an Options menu in my program!

I know, I'll bitch about the most insignificant and easily solved problem I encounter first. Hey, is that a sound? I didn't select any sound! How dare that program change what it was programmed to change! I hate this shit, but I have to use it. I have to use it because everybody's brain absorbed Windows code through osmosis and are now walking Windows executables! AAAAHHH!! The world is being overrun by Windows Destroyer Droids!

What? There's a way to solve my problem? Well, FUCK THAT! I'll bitch and moan that the way to solve the problem isn't MY way to solve it!

What? I'm wrong?!? Well, uh, I can't hear you! Nya nya nya, my fingers are in my ears! So fuck each other and Gates, because I won't listen!"

...

Ow...my head hurts. So, that's what it feels like to be an idiot...

Bosstone

04-29-2001, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Monster104
Cnote, maybe I can channel Hastur...

Okay, it's understandable that JET and Hastur can easily be confused, but really, we don't need two of them in the same thread. :)

And City Gent, Macs admittedly have a steady base, and Linux has a very stable infrastructure. It can do just about everything Windows can do better, and it can do more. At least, I'm pretty sure of that. I haven't had the chance to work with it yet, but I've been corrupted by my geek friends.

Then again, people of JET's caliber would go postal trying to get Linux to run...

Monster104

04-29-2001, 02:26 AM

City Gent, sorry, but that's a load of conspiracy theory bullshit.

In principle, people have choices, but in practice, there is damn little choice. Buying an electric car is technically an alternative to gasoline, but it's impractical because there's no infrastructure to support it.

Try telling any Linux user that there is no Linux infrastructure. Try to convince a Mac user that there is no Mac infrastructure, and they'll tear you apart.

Only a chump would argue that there is any real choice in the software market.

Then I guess said Linux and Mac users are just a load of chumps, huh? Wait...I would also have to include logical people in the "chumps" catagory as well. Stop speaking from your ass.

It created Windows 98 specifically as a wrapper for Internet Explorer so it could kill Netscape.

:rolleyes:

Microsoft routinely releases "vaporware" - press information about software that doesn't exist yet and may never exist - in order to dissuade consumers from buying other software. When other companies do that, it's called "securities fraud".

Maybe some examples are in order?

CnoteChris

04-29-2001, 02:28 AM

Wow, I'm about to take on a mentor!

City Gent-

I like your posts and all, but really, "In principle, people have choices, but in practice, there is damn little choice"

Do you really believe that if that people were so put-off by Microsoft that it would still exist? Isn't it easier to blame a company for it's short-comings than to actually make something that operates or works better?

Because up until now, I don't see anything that competes. Yeah, sure, bitch about their practices and all that, but aren't all the 'majors' doing the competitive aggresive kill-all-who-fuck-with-us mentalitiy? Huh? AOL? Real Networks? God knows who else.

And if you really think that that lone individuals have no saying in anything in this market, than how do you explain the advent of Linux, Konguerer, and the countless others out there?

If you want to branch out on this thing into different areas, how about the airline business? Do you think their less cut-throat than the OS market? How many majors have the minors bankrupted?

I don't need to fly, but if I want to, I have to fly a major.

Monster104

04-29-2001, 02:28 AM

Okay, it's understandable that JET and Hastur can easily be confused, but really, we don't need two of them in the same thread.

Oops. This is what happens when Monster stays up a little late. I had forgotten I switched from the Hastur thread, who's posting idiocy is very hard to distinguish when I'm tired.

City Gent

04-29-2001, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by Monster104

Try telling any Linux user that there is no Linux infrastructure. Try to convince a Mac user that there is no Mac infrastructure, and they'll tear you apart.

Linux user here. Sorry, but Linux is not ready for prime time. It's hard to install and configure, many motherboards don't like it, and there is a very limited base of "end-user" software. I use it only because I hate Microsoft, and I need a Un*x system to do number-crunching on (compatibility issues with my place of employment).

When I say there's no infrastructure, I mean e.g. that if I send an email message with a Word attachment, it almost always can be read, while if I send a Postscript attachment, it almost always can't. There's a reason for that...

Microsoft routinely releases "vaporware" - press information about software that doesn't exist yet and may never exist - in order to dissuade consumers from buying other software. When other companies do that, it's called "securities fraud".

Maybe some examples are in order? [/QUOTE]

Man, you must live in a cave...

http://detnews.com/1999/technology/9901/04/01040182.htm

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/smro/0128/279543.html

http://www.zdnet.com/sp/breaking/980518/980518c.html

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,9414,00.html

Yawwwn...bedtime.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

04-29-2001, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by CnoteChris
* 10:58 PM- Cnote posts, "What Version are you running?" *

* 2:01-AM *

Having a hard time trying to figure that out JET?

Jeez, I was away from my computer for three hours on a Saturday night. You'd almost think that, like, I had a life or something. (Except I'll admit it, I was sleeping.)

Not that it matters. Read this thread again and you'll see that at approx. 2pm on 4/27/01 I posted that I just installed IE 5.5 -- having a hard time figuring THAT one out???

God, I feel like a proctologist. Everywhere I turn, there's another big smelly asshole in my face.

SPOOFE

04-29-2001, 05:08 AM

Everywhere I turn, there's another big smelly asshole in my face.

They're called "mirrors".

Monster104

04-29-2001, 07:38 PM

Then maybe you should pull your head out of your ass.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

05-01-2001, 09:02 AM

Alright you stuck-up pantywaists, since you're all so smart and think IE is da bomb, tell me why the "stop" button appears to me purely decorative. Sometimes I'll click on a link and then change my mind and hit "stop", Netscape would obediently stop downloading the page but IE ignores me and grabs the page anyway. Oh, and that "asterisk" sound with the download dialog box is still fucking annoying me (and no, I don't want to turn off the asterisk sound completely!)

SPOOFE

05-01-2001, 03:29 PM

All right, you snot-nosed whiner, maybe you should check your system settings. Or your resource level (right-click "My Computer", click on "Properties", click on "Performance"). If you resource levels are too low (running several programs at once) or if you don't have much RAM or a very fast processor, things will get backed-up.

Another possibility is that your computer doesn't like your assholicness, either. Perhaps you should grew an ounce of politeness and then see if your problems go away.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

05-02-2001, 09:43 AM

This is funny, SPOOFE, I actually agree with you this time. We all know that Microsoft products are like self-aware entities that are greedy and slothful and demand that you upgrade your hardware or they won't run properly. (I vaguely remember a comic strip about this.) I'm running a 450mhz processor with very few programs in the background, just Norton AntiVirus and ICQ and that's it. If IE can't handle that, well that just proves my point that Microsoft makes pesky software that demands far too many resources. Netscape *never* had a problem, even on my old 486/66, although it would get sluggish if I had 10 programs running simultaneously.

I don't care if my computer thinks I'm an asshole, as far as it is concerned I am GOD and any program that doesn't conform to my design gets deleted. You'd be first in line for the Recycle Bin, if you were in my computer.

Mort Furd

05-02-2001, 10:36 AM

Uh, look folks. JET has a point. Windows (95, 98, 2000, and NT 4.0) suck serious ass.
I am not just blowing hot air here, either. I have about 15 computers here in the company thta I have to keep running. Windows does weird shit without provocation. It freaking crashes while doing nitnoid stuff, and when you try it again it works just fine. My favorites are the "Blue Screen Boots." Somedays, you turn a PC on in the morning and it boots stright into a blue screen. NOT scan disk, I am talking about "Press Control Alt Delete" to continue here. This happens even when I know damned good and well that the machine was properly shut down the day before.
I don't like windows. Did I mention that? I hate windows. Good point about using Linux, and I do at home (my house is 100% Microsoft free.) Doesn't do shit for me at work, though. We have about 40 different programs from different two-way radio manufacturers for setting up and tuning different radios. Proprietary crap, runs only under DOS or windows. I have tried WINE and DOSEMU, but they can't cut it with programs that directly manipulate the hardware. I am stuck with windows at work, and I fucking hate it.
Don't even get me started ranting about Word. I use Lyx and LaTEX at home, and sometime Word Perfect. I am stuck with Word at work, too. We have a couple of hundred documents that were created using Word because my previous boss liked it. The Word file formats are so fucked up that Word can't always read the files correctly, and you want to tell me that there is a conversion program out there that will let me use the files with another system? Not bloody fucking likely. I have tried. The results are usually pretty pathetic - I am talking complex documents here, not your average Fax or business letter but things with photos and diagramms and foot notes and lots of text. It doesn't work.
Do you know how windows (all versions) deal with a bad sector on a hard drive? They crash when they try to read or write to the bad sector. Some of the most fun I ever had was with Jaz drives. The media go bad eventually, and windows splats when it hits a bad sector. Now image this: You have a Jaz drive with a couple of hundred files on it. You know the media is shot, but you need to get your data copied before it completely craps out. Try to copy the files with the explorer and somewhere in the middle of the process, it just goes "Splat!" and disappears and takes windows (NT 4.0 in this case) with it. You don't even get a chance to see which file has the error. Even more fun was the 48 channel telephone call center recorder we installed for a customer in Portugal (I live in Germany.) We got called in what seemed like a zillion times to go and fix the damned thing, and for what? Because windows can't gracefully handle a bad sector. The recorder used removable Magneto Optical media, and the guys had a collection of about forty of the things. They filed them for a certain length of time, and then recycled the media. Well, after a while they begin to develop bad sectors. No problem, you say. Use scandisk and have them marked, then you won't have any trouble. Wrong. Using scandisk on an MO media with a bad sector crashes scandisk, and windows goes down with it. The recording of that 911 (I know, they don't use 911 in Portugal, but its easier for the American readers if I phrase it that way) call that you need? Tough shit, windows was crapped out right then and nothing got recorded. I kept telling them to use another PC to format and scandisk the media before reusing, but the boss had taken the control station (PC with network connection to the recorder and MO drive for playback) into his office to use as his personal office machine, so the twits either reused un tested media, or killed the running system trying to run scandisk.
Internet explorer? No damn thanks. It comes from microsoft, and I am not going to voluntarily use any of their products. Netscape works just fine, and I find that most internet sites where Netscape has problems are full of so much crap that I would turn around and leave immediately anyway. I am not usually rooting through the Internet looking to be impressed by the snazzy pages with the newest tricks. I usually am looking for specific information - technical information, updates to programs, a utility program for some job or another, that kind of thing. Pages full of java, javascript, flash, damned nerve grating midi files tootling in the background, freaking animated blinking text with cutesy little animals chasing their tails (good German pun to be made here - the word for tail and a slange word for penis are the same) irritate the hell out of me.

Having said all of that, I have to agree that if JET can't find out how to change the settings in the internet explorer, or silence the irritating noises, then he is not the computer expert he likes to think he is.

(P.S.
I am fully aware of the fact that several words in this rant should normally be capitalized. I purposely did not capitalize several microsfot related proper nouns. Microsoft and the names of its programs would besmirch the word proper. I consider neither the company nor the software to be in any wise "proper.")

Mort Furd

05-02-2001, 10:46 AM

Oh, yeah.

My concept of the relation between computer user and computer is this:
The computer is private to my General. The private is allowed to protest insane orders, but it had damned well better be right else it faces courtmartial. In most cases, it should assume that the user knows what in the hell he wants, and the computer should hairy by god damned DO IT.

Jeremy's Evil Twin

05-02-2001, 05:16 PM

Well, I just want to point out a couple things. First, to give credit where it's due, MS Word ain't that bad. (Probably because I've used it for so long, I'm used to putting up with the weird shit it does.) Second, I never said I was a "computer expert", I just said I was smarter with computers than the Average Joe. Recently I sent somebody a zip file, and they had no idea how to open it. Now THAT'S stupidity!

I've been lucky with Windows crashes, only corrupted the registry once, and I fixed it with a seven-month-old backup copy. I was actually quite proud of myself, I don't know how I came up with what I did but it worked. I'll bet SPOOFE would have just reformatted & reinstalled from scratch. Idiot.

CnoteChris

05-02-2001, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Jeremy's Evil Twin
Recently I sent somebody a zip file, and they had no idea how to open it. Now THAT'S stupidity!

Please.

If that were you on the other end you'd be in here bitching about this "compression" thing and why everything's fucked up because it's not like it used to be in the good 'ol days of the Apple ][e. "Hey! They used to just save the fucking file, ya know. Now you got to get all this fancy pancy compress shit. Zip this and unzip that. Fuck that! Open the Goddammed file already! That Bill Gates sure is fucked up because I can't figure this shit out at all! Fuck him and fuck you! Now help me, please."

SPOOFE

05-03-2001, 01:20 AM

Uh, look folks. JET has a point.

Of course he does. It's his means of communicating that point that suck ass.

I'll bet SPOOFE would have just reformatted & reinstalled from scratch. Idiot.

Actually, I wouldn't have corrupted the registry in the first place. In addition, I don't make baseless assumptions about people. Idiot.

Again, I say... if IE is supposedly so horrible, why don't you just use Netscape? "I can't!" Why not? "Because..." Oh, I've already gone through all this. Learn to read, will ya, Jeremy?

Jeremy's Evil Twin

05-03-2001, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly
Actually, I wouldn't have corrupted the registry in the first place. In addition, I don't make baseless assumptions about people. Idiot.

Oh, so you have God-like powers that control Windows from screwing things up? In that case, I supplicate myself to your holy power. Seriously, if you have never had a Windows problem, teach me how to avoid them and I'll water your plants for a year.

Again, I say... if IE is supposedly so horrible, why don't you just use Netscape? "I can't!" Why not? "Because..." Oh, I've already gone through all this. Learn to read, will ya, Jeremy?

Dipshit, read the OP again. I *never* used IE until last month, when I was FORCED to because Netscape can no longer handle several webpages that I read on a daily basis!!! I still use Netscape as my primary browser, and I would use it for everything if I could. BUT I CAN'T!!! What part of this statement do you not understand???

Mort Furd

05-03-2001, 08:49 AM

JET:
First, to give credit where it's due, MS Word ain't that bad.
This is the Pit, right?

microsoft word (all versions) is so shitty that all of New York's sewage treament plants together couldn't dispose of it all. It sucks. It blows. It is shit incarnate. May all of its bits rot in hell, with maggots engaging in peanut butter and jelly lubricated anal sex with lice in the festering wounds of the blisters caused by the brimstone fires.

If it behaves well for you then you probably haven't done any earnest work with it. Granted, it is a good habit to save a file under a new name before editing it no matter what editor you use. Normally, however, that is just in case something drastically *bad* happens to your computer while you are working or just in case you want to go back to an earlier version. With word you absolutely *must* save your work under a new name everytime you go to edit a document. Word does horrid things sometimes that fuck up your formatting beyond human capability to repair. It loses inserted pictures or just freaking "decides" that a certain element just *has* to stay in one spot and won't let you change it. This is not even mentioning the random crashes. Please don't defend word unless you have at least one fifty page document with photos, diagramms, drawings, and table of contents. That kind of job will permanently disabuse you of the idea that word "ain't that bad." Word is a bloated text editor with delusions of being a desktop publishing system. It also burns my ass to have to drive a stake through the heart of that damned paper clip every time I install word on a new machine. It really bugs me that microsoft invested so much effort into something so irritating when they could have put more effort into debugging.

OpalCat

05-03-2001, 09:24 AM

I hate IE but I use it now, too. :(

My main gripe with it is that it is missing a few things from the right click menu that I use A LOT in NS...

Open Frame in New Window
View Image (opens the image by itself in the browser window)
Copy Image Location

*sigh*

And the whole renaming of terms... they're LINKS not SHORTCUTS dammit.... no matter what IE thinks they are.

Liberal

05-03-2001, 09:54 AM

We all know that Microsoft products are like self-aware entities that are greedy and slothful and demand that you upgrade your hardware or they won't run properly. (I vaguely remember a comic strip about this.)

I think you remember a Doonesbury cartoon from a few years back. It was one of my favorites. They were standing around a PC, having just installed the brand new Windows 95. The software balked at the hardware they were installing it on, advising that they needed exorbitant RAM and disk space. Suddenly, the printer came on and one of them said, "It's printing a complete list of its demands!"

"Hold it to its box specs!" another guy declared. :D Great cartoon!

Liberal

05-03-2001, 10:01 AM

Open Frame in New Window

Right click in frame. "Open Frame in New Window"

View Image (opens the image by itself in the browser window)

Right click on image. "Open Image in New Window"

Copy Image Location

Right click on image. "Copy Shortcut"

SPOOFE

05-03-2001, 06:28 PM

Oh, so you have God-like powers that control Windows from screwing things up?

Apparently so, although I guess with your limited mental capacity, a cigarette lighter would be considered a "God-like power".

Seriously, if you have never had a Windows problem, teach me how to avoid them and I'll water your plants for a year.

I didn't say I've never had a Windows problem. I said I've never corrupted the registry. Again, learn to read, will ya?

I was FORCED to because Netscape can no longer handle several webpages that I read on a daily basis!!!

Yes, you were forced. Of course. You HAD to continue viewing these webpages to go on living. If you didn't continue viewing these web pages, the universe would have exploded.

:rolleyes:

Suck it up and stop whining, you little prick.

BUT I CAN'T!!! What part of this statement do you not understand???

And what part of the statement "Sure you can" don't you understand? You choose to use Internet Explorer because it was capabilities which you desire over Netscape... or else you wouldn't be using it. And now you're whining about a choice that you made.

You weren't forced into it. Microsoft didn't threaten to kill your mom if you didn't go to IE. There weren't any cosmic phenomena that made you abandon Netscape. You chose to do it.