Does anyone not break the agreement?

[Temujin]

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.Just took another look at this, and I realized I haven't lived up to the agreement 100 percent. I have posted material which could be considered vulgar, and perhaps obscene and sexually oriented, even though I agreed not to when I registered. To be honest, I got caught up in the fun of the board and completely forgot most of the stuff I (and everyone else here) agreed to. Instead, I just tried to use common sense and not be a jerk.

It piqued my curiosity: Is there any single poster (or moderator or administrator) out there who can honestly say he or she has lived up to this agreement 100 percent?

And would moderators and administrators really want us to?

(This post is NOT intended as criticism of how the board is run. I have no complaints.)

[Czarcasm]

There is quite a difference between inadvertantly breaking the rules, and deliberately and repeatedly breaking the rules in an attempt to show some sort of "superiority". When the Board asks you to stop doing something, you can either 1) Stop doing it, or 2) Do it even more and write nasty notices all over the board about everyone else's mistakes, then loudly procaim that you are a "martyr".

[TubaDiva]

We are aware that the current agreement as it stands is not sufficient for what we're aiming for here . . . and it's being rewritten.

Understand that we are still formulating stuff here . . . that things change over time and experience.

Also please understand that we want the Teeming Millions to come here to read and post and learn stuff and have fun. On the one hand, we don't want to stifle free expression; on the other hand, we want this to be a good--no, a GREAT experience--for as many people as we can and where there's no limits there's mostly chaos.

We're looking for that middle ground that gives our forum members the most freedom and flexibility but that also ensures that great experience for the largest number of the group.

Slythe's comments are well taken, too. :)

Let me ask you folks, the people that have to live by these rules: what do YOU think is appropriate and how would you say it? I cannot promise that we'll adopt your personal point of view, but I promise you we WILL read it.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope

[Temujin]

Hi slythe,

I should have made it more clear that I was NOT commenting on Contestant #3.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Czarcasm]

Neither was I. He is not the first, nor will he be the last, to go ballistic over their own self importance. I've been hit by the ol' two-by-four myself a couple of times.

[Drain Bead]

Neither was I, my ass. I'm assuming that "martyr" line was referring to someone else, right?

Hey, while we were discussing, the agreement has changed slightly . . . go look at it, please.

Policies and Disclaimers (http://www.straightdope.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree]Rules,]http://www.straightdope.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree]Rules,[/URL)

Note that "Don't Be A Jerk" still applies. :)

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope
It's a good rule for life, too.



[Note: This message has been edited by TubaDiva]

[Nickrz]

Uhm, Dear Heart
The Policies link does not work.
(What a jerk, right?) ;)

[Arnold Winkelried]

Well, the rules say "don't post anything profane." ?? Which meaning of profane is indicated in that sentence? (definitions taken from Merriam-Webster Online (http://www.m-w.com/home.htm))

1 not concerned with religion or religious purposes : SECULAR
2 not holy because unconsecrated, impure, or defiled : UNSANCTIFIED
3 serving to debase or defile what is holy : IRREVERENT
4 a : not being among the initiated b : not possessing esoteric or expert knowledge

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J'ai assez vécu pour voir que différence engendre haine.
Stendhal

[TubaDiva]

You know, I really really like No. 4. :)

I've punted this over to the Powers That Be.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope

[Arnold Winkelried]

Let me ask you folks, the people that have to live by these rules: what do YOU think is appropriate and how would you say it? I cannot promise that we'll adopt your personal point of view, but I promise you we WILL read it.

I would think personal abuse and incitement to violence should be banned. Ditto "spamming" and forms of pornography that are forbidden in the USA (the country of origin of the SDMB). In other words, what is forbidden now.

On a personal note, I would disagree with the "BBQ Pit" forum. I think it would be better to say "If you have to flame, go do it somewhere else."

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J'ai assez vécu pour voir que différence engendre haine.
Stendhal

[AuraSeer]

I think this link is what TubaDiva was attempting: http://www.straightdope.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree

[moriah]

Most of the prohibited stuff is already prohibited by law (at least, the law in most countries) -- harrassment, slander, incitement to violence, hate speech (yes, its criminality is constitutionally questionable at this point), pyramid schemes, obscenity (the legally obscene, like bestiality pictures), etc....

So, you really don't need to explicitly prohibit what's illegal, however, given that the laws can vary from country to country and that some people are ignorant, I guess you should spell out what's illegal.

The real question is, what legal activities do you want to prohibit? Some are easy to name: Chain letters, general proselytization, hard core X-rated pics. Others might not be so easy: 'Swear' words? Nude pics? Trolling?

Can we go around and say f***? The harshest swear words appear often in BBQ, are they also OK in the general forums? Which swear words are too profane? Is this an 'R' BB or an 'X'?

Peace.

[TubaDiva]

We've tried to eschew ratings or hard and fast rules, because we want to give you folks the most latitude that we can.

Besides, it's a drag to have a lot of rules and we really don't want to be censors or playground monitors. We assume that you are rational thinking adults (well, most of you are . . . mostly :) ) and we expect you to behave as rational thinking adults without prompting from us.

At the same time, there ARE limits to everything.

We ARE aimed at an adult audience; this is not Romper Room, this is not a kid-centered site. That's deliberate. Kids got their own stuff, this is not the place. Which is not to say kids can't come here, but I hope they do so with the full consent and supervision of their adult guardians.

We prefer to try to take things on a case by case basis; what's appropriate for the situation, that's how you should guide your actions.

Note that wordage that would be totally appropriate for a slanging match in the Pit is NOT appropriate for a query in General Questions. In the same vein, opinions are not facts; that's why we have MPSIMS, to give just one example.

Try to make your postings appropriate for the area they're being listed in . . .and true to their content. Don't try to provoke debate in General Questions; on the other hand, don't look first for factual answers to your questions in Great Debates, where opinion is more accepted as a part of what goes down.

Free expression is mostly a good thing, but your right to post freely ends where abuse of other people begin. Let common sense and good manners be your guide and you'll always be correct. The Golden Rule's not bad either; how would YOU like to be addressed, how would you like to be treated? Act accordingly and you'll be a beloved member of the Teeming Millions. Which will probably qualify you for great prizes. Or something.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope
Is everybody good and confused now?

[Temujin]

Hi TubaDiva and everyone,

Thanks for the responses.

Getting back to my OP, I'm guessing that the answer to my first question is ''no,'' and the answer to my second question also is ''no.'' Right? ;)

Since this is a moderated board, and since the goal is to create an environment in which everyone can have fun as well as overcome ignorance, I have a suggestion for something you could add to the agreement. How about:You also agree, through your use of this service, not to engage in personal attacks unless you are in the BBQ pit. If you feel the need to call people names, or label people, or question their intelligence, or otherwise comment on them as people, you agree to do so in the BBQ pit and not in any other forum. Outside the BBQ pit, you agree to limit your criticism of other posters to what they said, not to what you view as their personality flaws.I realize this rule is implicit in the descriptions of the various forums, but there seems to be a sizable minority of posters who cannot resist writing, for example: ''You are a ridiculous person,'' when they mean, ''What you wrote seems ridiculous to me,'' or ''Learn to read,'' when they mean, ''You apparently misread my post.'' In other words, they attack the poster's perceived flaws as a person, rather than the content of the poster's message. This is a recipe for an argument.

I've noticed in many threads where arguments have erupted needlessly because a poster resorted to an unnecessary personal attack, when it would have been more effective (and more fun) if the poster had merely commented on a previous poster's words (rather than on his or her perceived personality flaws).

On the other hand, I'm not sure how this could be enforced. Unfortunately, in our society, many people don't seem to understand the difference between attacking a person's words, and attacking a person. And many posters seem to take it personally and get angry when someone disagrees with them.

Am I the only one who is concerned about this? If so, I'll shut up and get off the bandwagon. But I really do think this board would be more fun and more effective without the name-calling, and without the commentaries on posters' personal flaws.

[Temujin]

After all, it's kind of lonely being the only person on a bandwagon. ;)

(meant to say ''soapbox'' instead of ''bandwagon'' in the previous post.)

[Jvanhorn]

The one thing that has come closest to making me stop reading this board is that somebody always seems to find a reason to rant about somebody else. I rarely read the BBQ pit, but I still hear how someone can't stand Wally M7, or Daniel P. Bostaph, or somebody else.

I find these things unnecessary. Both of the above mentioned posters have made some very intelligent and well reasoned posts, and I don't recall them picking on anyone else, but even if they did things in a manner similar to C#3, I would think that it would be the Board Staff's problem, rather than that of any of the users.

It seems that a lot of people look at how many posts they have made, and think that the higher the number the more right they have to criticize others and their views.

It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[David B]

Tubadiva said:don't look first for factual answers to your questions in Great DebatesHey! We have lots of factual answers in Great Debates. It's not our fault if some of the posters don't want to accept the facts! Sheesh...

[TubaDiva]

Well David, that's your opinion. :)

your humble TubaDiva
Don't confuse me with the facts!

[TubaDiva]

After all, it's kind of lonely being the only person on a bandwagon.
(meant to say ''soapbox'' instead of ''bandwagon'' in the previous post.)

Sure you didn't mean to say, "handbasket?"

your humble TubaDiva
but at least we're all going there TOGETHER.

PS Personally I like your descriptive 'graph from above; I'll pass it on.

[TubaDiva]

Let me drop a word in a shell-like ear and see what's up.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope

[Arnold Winkelried]

Hell, I'm a great admirer of George Fane.

(oops, just broke the agreement.)

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J'ai assez vécu pour voir que différence engendre haine.
Stendhal

[Arnold Winkelried]

BTW, gentle moderator, any update on which meaning of "profane" is used in the agreement?

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J'ai assez vécu pour voir que différence engendre haine.
Stendhal

[C K Dexter Haven]

Pro = Latin meaning "in favour of" or "for"
Fane = George R. Fane, 1893-1947, noted Egyptologist and fetishist

Hence, profane is ... well, I'll leave it for you to fill in.

[coming up for air]

Profane: Middle English prophanen, from Latin profanare, from profanus Pro: before (i.e., outside) and Fanus: temple = not sacred, impious.

[waterj2]

I don't think Arnold has really been holding his breath this whole time waiting for an etymology of profane.

[Ice Wolf]

Looking at old threads like this is like looking at a b/w tv. Czarcasm and Arnold Winkelried pre-Mod? I thought they just spontaneously began already in the positions of great power they hold now. :)

[handy]

Is it just me or did I see a post from Tuba above where it says 'Guest' under her name?

"which is knowingly
false and/or defamatory, inaccurate"

Yeah, no more posts about Fox shows.

[Arnold Winkelried]

Ice Wolf, ignore that Winkelried you see behind the curtain. This Winkelried, in the manner of the great Athena, sprung forth fully armed from the head of Cecil Adams.

waterj2, I wasn't holding my breath, but I did make a vow not to bathe until someone gave me the origin of the word profane. It's off to the jacuzzi now.

[handy]

Ah ha!, It says:

TubaDiva
Guest

Which is knowingly false information since she's not a guest, but part of the staff. Better write yourself an email about that Tuba :-)

[waterj2]

I don't think Tuba posted that message knowing that several months later we would have a new software package, that hadn't even been released at the time she wrote the message, that would for some reason have a glitch in the database that changed her status on that post to "guest". So I don't think that the "knowingly" criterion is met, unless Tuba has godlike foresight. Or do you also think that we should send letters to anyone who referred to President Clinton, which is now false?

Oh, and Arnold, had any luck with the women now that you've cleaned up?

[The Bean]

Don't worry. I think the rest of us knew it was a joke.
And it's a good curiosity, especially because the status was normal both before and after on the same thread. It's a keeper all right. We can bring it out for the annual "clip show", like they do for Letterman.

[Chronos]

...unless Tuba has godlike foresight.Of course not, waterj2! She has goddesslike foresight.
Speaking of such, Arnold, does "in the manner of the great Athena" mean that you're also a virgin maiden? We never knew!

[Arnold Winkelried]

waterj2 : I think women like the sweaty, dirty, pheromone-laden manly man, not the perfumed dandy. Try riding a horse in the hot sun for 10 hours rounding up cattle and then go to your local singles bar. You'll see women flocking to you like flies.

Chronos: I'll try and get C K Dexter Haven and Czarcasm to join me in a chorus of "3 little maids from school are we" for your viewing pleasure.

[SPOOFE]

Just be sure to wear that your Magic Gold Shirt, Arnold.

[Dijon Warlock]

Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven
Pro = Latin meaning "in favour of" or "for"
Fane = George R. Fane, 1893-1947, noted Egyptologist and fetishist

Hence, profane is ... well, I'll leave it for you to fill in. Why does this have "SIG LINE" written all over it? Dex, any royalty fees for this one?

[Harmonious Discord]

All that old coding in the text was getting distracting. Please start a new thread, if the subject was posted when we all used html codes.

[Arnold Winkelried]

<B>Eh <blockhead> <font size="huge" face="sticking tongue out"> What's that</i>[/sup] Phobia? You'll have to <font size="+hearing-impaired"> speak up </font>, I can't <a="http://www.asl.org/sign_language"> hear you</a/href/html/end>.

[Harmonious Discord]

Arnold Winkelried

I loved being able to post the moving figures and make the message look like a personal website. Alas the board has become to big for it's britches and html is nomore. Fare thee well sweet html.

[Arnold Winkelried]

I agree with you Phobia. While I understand and approve of the reasons behind the disabling of HTML on the board, in many cases HTML was used productively and to good effect by posters at the SDMB.

Fortunately, we can still try to be witty using plain text, like our forefathers (and foremothers) did.

[TVeblen]

Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried

Fortunately, we can still try to be witty using plain text, like our forefathers (and foremothers) did.

That's the spirit! Lincoln wrote the Gettysburg Address with a charred stick on the back of a shovel. Or maybe it was an envelope. Something like that.
Or Dorothy Parker who produced stinging, witty poetry and commentary while half blitzed out her mind on martinis with nothing more than Algonquin bar napkins to write on. If tablecloths were involved I don't remember reading about them.

::wipes away a sentimental tear::

Always glad to promte stalwart pioneer values,
Veb

[wring]

foresight
forefathers
foremothers

now, why do I have this sudden urge to grab up a pair of clippers?

(would that break the agreement?)
parenthetically, I think it's fun to see some of these old threads revived, when current moderators were mere
'members' (does that make them foremembers?)

There was one recently where Alphagene made some statement like "I not even want to be a mod", was pretty funny to see with "moderator" beneath his name.

[Arnold Winkelried]

TVeblen, get a hold of yourself! (shakes her and slaps her silly) Us moderators cannot afford to be seen crying in public. A sign of weakness like that deserves 20 push-ups. Now! (How's that for stalwart pioneer values?)

As far as Lincoln writting the Gettysburg Address on an envelope with a charred shovel, our Teeming Millions discussed that once and pretty much shot down that theory.

The Gettysburg (expletive deleted) Address (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=11616)

But I agree with what you said about Dorothy Parker (downs first shot of cheap gin in preparation for his daily moderator duties)