Legality of Cuban cigars

[occ]

I was browsing a few online cigar stores earlier, and noticed that many of them advertise Cuban cigars for sale. They explicitly claim they ship these to the US, as well. Wouldn't this be illegal under the current US embargo on Cuba? Why would people risk getting busted smuggling these things in from Canada and Mexico if they could merely have them sent by mail? I'm aware that unscrupulous sellers could (and do) pass off lesser cigars as expensive Cubans, but these seem to be major, reliable sites who would have much to lose by scamming their customer base. I've searched their FAQs, and there isn't even a mention of the US/Cuba embargo, which seems like it would be the question on everyone's mind. Is there some legal loophole these stores employ? Are the cigars somehow concidered "a gift" (not that I believe the gubment would allow "gifts" of contraband, anyway). So: is it legal for United States residents to receive or posess product from an embargoed nation?

[UncleBeer]

By my reading of these U.S. Custom's Service documents, this would be illegal.

http://www.customs.gov/travel/cigars.htm#top
http://www.treas.gov/ofac/t11cuba.pdf

[Enola Straight]

I'm fairly certain that any cuban cigar in existance before the embargo was put up is not considered contraband and therefore legal for sale.

[fenrir]

It's illegal for U.S. citizens to buy them.But it's not illegal for other countrys to ship them to you.They conceal them pretty well too .Not that i would ever think of doing something like this. :rolleyes:

[gazpacho]

UncleBeer's pdf link says that that it is illegal to import the goods through a third country. So I think that it is illegal for them to ship the cigars to you. It is clear that they think so to otherwise they would not conceal them.

The embargo was started in 1963 (it will bring Castro to his knees any day now). I don't know much about Cigars but I assume a 38 year old cigar would not be very good.

[Montfort]

Originally posted by gazpacho
UncleBeer's pdf link says that that it is illegal to import the goods through a third country.
This is funny, considering that there are souvenir stands that offer (via VERY LARGE SIGNS) Cuban cigars just across the US/Canadian border in Quebec, less than a mile from the border, and on the southbound side of the road. Hmm...

I wonder if the Customs station on the US side watches with binoculars to see who comes out of that shack.

[waxteeth]

Originally posted by gazpacho
I don't know much about Cigars but I assume a 38 year old cigar would not be very good.



1) enolancooper is correct pre-embargo cigars are legal.

2) gezpacho is correct 38 year old pre-embargo Cubans are trash.
I have developed an extremely eco friendly way to smo…errrrr Recycle them. Please send all your Cuban cigars to me for proper disposal.

[Kalt]

If the cigar is kept in proper conditions, a 38 year old cuban cigar will be the most amazing thing a mouth can ever taste. One of the best cigars i've had was a cuban from 1908. I have some WWII era cigars as well, which are quite interesting.

Cuban tobacco has a great propensity for aging, just like a fine bordeaux. Most cuban cigars don't even become "smokeable" until they are at least 2 years old. Too young.

If you buy cubans in canada, you will get screwed. a $5 cuban cigar costs $35 there. A cohiba esplendido - a $15 cigar in spain (best prices) costs about $50 in canada.

Cuban cigars are illegal to buy in 3rd countries. They are illegal to buy when you are abroad. Bill Clinton recently bought a cuban cigar (Bolivar) in london - in front of the press. What a cocky prick. I hope he gets a fine from US Customs. Then again, clinton is so used to trading with the enemy (selling our nuclear secrets to china, etc) that he just does it naturally, without even thinking about it.

[gazpacho]

waxteeth

I can't tell when people are BSing me online or not because I can't look them in the eye to see them blink. Are 40 year of cigars any good or not?

[gadgetgirl]

I don't know the letter of the law but last year I wanted to bring some Cubans home for my wedding so I went down to the duty free shop here in Sydney and they told me that they can't even sell them to me if I am going to the States. But I don't know if the law has changed since then.
I do know that you can get "Cuban Style" made cigars. Kinds of a tricky move, but I have seen them around. Not the real thing though.

[waxteeth]

Originally posted by gazpacho
I can't tell when people are BSing me online or not because I can't look them in the eye to see them blink.

Kalt answered it before I could get back.
40 year old Cubans are a mighty fine thing I was BSing you.

[Morrison's Lament]

My understanding of the word "law" is that it does not stretch beyond the boarders of the country or region that passes it.

This law cannot be enforced outside the USA. However, a couple of years ago, attempts were made by the US congress to put sanctions on any non-US companies that didn't comply with this US law! Of course there was an outrage in the foreign investor community and the bill was later killed in a private ceremony.

--- G. Raven

[chalicesmoke]

Kalt=chupa *HONK*

[sailor]

Morrison's Lament, you are right only to a certain point. There is nothing to stop the US congress from passing laws that apply to US citizens wherever they may be. In fact, they do this all the time. If you are a US citizen residing in Voltambia, you still have to pay taxes to uncle Sam for the privilege of being a US citizen. If you are a US citizen you may not do certain things abroad even if they are legal there (like engaging in sex with children). The only issue is one of enforcement as they would have to wait for you to return to US jurisdiction where they can nab you.

Regarding Cuban stuff, a US citizen is prohibited from buying it no matter where the act occurs. Check out the OFAC page mentioned above.

Not only that but the US has passed the Helms-Burton act which penalizes *foreign* companies and individuals who trade with Cuba outside of the US. This, of course, is going too far and there have been protests from other countries. I believe the enforcement of the law is suspended but I do know foreign businessmen whose companies have investments in Cuba have been denied entrance to the US.

So, it comes down to this: (a) the congress may pass any laws it pleases (b) enforcing them is something else alltogether and (c) if they go too far other countries get annoyed.

By the way, there have been many threads in the past discussing the particular case of Cuba.

[Kalt]

LMAO is that you Tony??!!!

[CheapBastid]

1) You absolutely can buy Cuban Cigars, you just need to get either a General or Specific License from the Treasury Department. You then go to Cuba and you can bring back $100 worth. Otherwise, if you are gifted one that has been obtained legally you can smoke it. The limitation is on spending money on Cuban goods.

2) Pre-Embargo Cuban cigars are legal, but they are not always good. Most of the power has leeched away, but there can be a subtle almost musty flavor that won't be found elsewhere.

3) HONK

[sailor]

CheapBastid, let's get real ok? You really think the US guvment is going to give you a license to (as they see it) trade with the enemy, so you can enjoy a good smoke? How many licenses for this have been granted in the last 40 years?

The OFAC people are not kidding and they will go after you given the least chance. Last year they sent a cease and desist order to the Tampa Yacht Club and they were forced to cancel the Havana Cup Regatta at the last minute in spite that it was all legal as no money would be spent in Cuba. It seems this year's regatta has been diverted to the Dry Tortugas for the same reason: http://www.havanacup.com/2001.shtml

[China Guy]

Far from giving material aid and comfort to the enemy, buy smoking Cuban cigars you would be patriotically buring their fields.

[CheapBastid]

Originally posted by sailor
CheapBastid, let's get real ok? You really think the US guvment is going to give you a license to (as they see it) trade with the enemy, so you can enjoy a good smoke?

That is two questions. Will they grant one? Yes. Will they grant one for the sole purpose of you buying cigars? No.

Originally posted by sailor
How many licenses for this have been granted in the last 40 years?

I don't have a number, but I know of quite a few folks who have gone. I recall a website listing the number as in the multiple thousands a year. Read the docs, there are more than a few reasons for one to be granted a License.

[sailor]

CheapBastid, you are distorting things. You know full well that is not what the OP is asking. Yes, if you are Bryant Gumbel and want to report from Cuba, you can get a license to go there which would entitle you to buy a few cigars. But that is not what the OP is asking or referring to.

The answer to the OP is that YES, it *is* illegal.

[CheapBastid]

Originally posted by sailor
CheapBastid, you are distorting things.

The OP was pretty extensively answered, and I do understand what the question was, but the fact that one can indeed buy Cuban Cigars was not stated. The condition is a {i}very[/i] specific one, and I thought it useful to know.

I'm sorry if I offended your sensibilities.

[occ]

Originally posted by Kalt
Cuban cigars are illegal to buy in 3rd countries. They are illegal to buy when you are abroad. Bill Clinton recently bought a cuban cigar (Bolivar) in london - in front of the press. What a cocky prick.

This is interesting. Does it fall under "trading with the enemy" if you purchase (and smoke) a Cuban cigar in, say, Spain? Here's something I just thought of: one of my cousins was taking a semester of school abroad. The location? Cuba. Yes, really. Therefore, wouldn't they be violating the "trading with the enemy" act on a daily basis, purchasing food and such? It would certainly be an interesting case if such a thing were brought to trial

[occ]

On another aside, I recall recently reading that a snooty private club in Manhattan was recently raided, due to suspicion of hoarding...Cuban cigars. Their humidor was full of them, and I believe arrests were made.

[CheapBastid]

Originally posted by occ
Does it fall under "trading with the enemy" if you purchase (and smoke) a Cuban cigar in, say, Spain?It would be a violation of Treasury Department Regulations. Not really enforceable, but illegal nonetheless.

Originally posted by occ
...one of my cousins was taking a semester of school abroad. The location? Cuba. Yes, really. Therefore, wouldn't they be violating the "trading with the enemy" act on a daily basis, purchasing food and such? Not likely, if he (she?) is there with a General or Specific License the spending of money is allowed.

If you're real interested you can read the docs at the OFAC site.

[beergeek279]

I do know that you can get "Cuban Style" made cigars. Kinds of a tricky move, but I have seen them around. Not the real thing though.

Well, you're right there! After the embargo, all of the Cuban cigar makers set up production plants in the Dominican Republic, so any Cohiba, Romeo y Julieta, etc. that you see in a US store is going to be produced there and not in Cuba. It's not that Dominican cigars are of poor quality; most cigar afficianados would rate them almost as highly as real Cubans. The fact is just that the copies aren't quite as bold and robust as the originals (as Dominicans are generally considered more mild than Cubans).

This is interesting. Does it fall under "trading with the enemy" if you purchase (and smoke) a Cuban cigar in, say, Spain?

If this were the case, then the rather lucrative business of Cuban cigars in Canada (which I'm sure caters more to rich Americans than to natives) would be quickly destroyed.

-Bill (dreaming of a nice Cohiba Esplendido)

[Guinastasia]

What is so special about CUBAN cigars, anyways?

[CheapBastid]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
What is so special about CUBAN cigars, anyways?
Tough question.

It depends on who you ask. Some say they aren't so special, others say they will smoke nothing else.

My answer is that the tobacco has a distinctive flavor, and has a tendancy to age very well (from what I've heard anyway).

=)

There are fantastic cigars from the Dominican, Nicaragua, and Honduras, but Cuba is really Cigar Mecca. It is where it all began.

[Kalt]

i should note that although he is correct in what he has said on this thread, cheapbastid is a nazi sympathizer.

[beergeek279]

What is so special about CUBAN cigars, anyways?

I would say that Cuban cigars are a much richer, more robust and heavier smoke than any other. I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing or not(personally, I wouldn't recommend a Cuban to a novice smoker.......I'd recommend they start with a much milder cigar first), but to the afficianado, it's a matter of taste.

[Chronos]

i should note that although he is correct in what he has said on this thread, cheapbastid is a nazi sympathizer.

[Moderator watch ON]
Kalt, what the heck was that supposed to mean? Explain quickly.

[Morrison's Lament]

Whoa, talk about coming out of left field :D

You're not a Swiss banker are you Cheapbastid?

--- G. Raven