I Vote for eliminating the BBQ Pit message board

[whitetho]

The Straight Board Message Board, ideally, exists to promote the elimination of ignorance and the exaltation of Unca Cece. I don't see how the BBQ Pit contributes to either goal--it's would be like the Discovery Channel carrying the Jerry Springer show.

It might be tolerable if the petty disputes were contained in the BBQ Pit area, but fairly regularly now we're getting battling people spilling over into the other forums, and it's getting tiresome.

The earlier addition of the Great Debates forum was a good idea. The elimination of the BBQ Pit is an idea whose time has come.

[Ringo]

Maybe some nastiness spills out into other forums, but at least it's generally contained in the Pit. Eliminating the Pit won't eliminate the scream-fests and name calling; they'll just move out into the other forums full-time.

[krish]

I agree with beatle. If you don't like the Pit, then just don't go there.

[Alphagene]

Are you people reading the same Pit I am?

Relatively few of the total threads are personal attacks on board members. Most of them are people bitching about this and that. Kind of like MPSIMS without the gratuitous hugs.

People need to bitch the same way people need to share mundane pointless stuff. Remove the pit and you'll see people bitching in one of the other forums. Is that what you guys want?

Skip the Pit if you are oh-so-offended.

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Back off, man. I'm a scientist.

I gotta go on record as disagreeing here. Whitetho, I'm sorry I don't recognize you, although from your profile you're obviously an old reg from the old board, like I am.

The existence of the Pit was, IMHO, a stroke of genius on whoever created it (Jenny?). When things start to get nasty someplace else, the Pit allows a place to go and duke it out, without bogging down everything else. It's one thing to continue a reasoned and civil disagreement in a non-Pit forum, but when the profanity, vulgarity, and cheap shots start coming, it's nice to have some place to send the participants to. And, as oft-repeated, if you don't like it, don't go there.

The Pit helps keep things semi-civil elsewhere; that's a benefit all the way around.

-Melin

Jeez, I'm suffering from a series of senior moments in forgetting to complete thoughts in my posts this morning.

The point of my reference to the old board is: remember when we DIDN'T have a place like the Pit to go? Thread after thread degenerated into a flame war. If it wasn't The George and Bob Show, it was Cyb or worse (hmm, was there worse than Cyb?) going at it. That sort of thing just doesn't happen over here, except in the Pit.

-Melin
"Who Is Mr. Ruda Duda?"

[Arnold Winkelried]

I'm not offended by the BBQ pit, I just think it's a bad idea. The description says "If you must flame, do it here." Why give people an area to hurl insults at each other?

If that's not what people use the BBQ pit for, then those messages can be put in MPSIMS.

I know people say "we need the pit because people will hurl insults anyway." I disagree. The moderators can oversee threads as they do now, and if someone becomes abusive, you can give them a warning or cancel their user. I don't see how it's any more difficult to say "Stop those insults" instead of "Stop those insults or take it to the pit".

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La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l'on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l'on dit.
H. de Livry

[UncleBeer]

Hmmm, someone in favor of censorship. Odd.

[whitetho]

The boards are already being censored by the moderators. Threads move and disappear, and some people have been shown the door (to the extent that doors exist in cyberspace). But this isn't part of an Orwellian nightmare, it's just a case of a private establishment maintaining certain standards of behavior, just like other businesses ventures do with their patrons.

Alt.fan.cecil-adams is uncensored, misc.facts.straight-dope is uncensored, alt.angst is uncensored.

What is being discussed is merely an honest difference of opinion as to what types of Message Boards are consistant with the zen of The Straight Dope.

[Alphagene]

Most of the arguments in the Pit are with the "zen" of the SD. When posters take issue with someone's logic (or lack thereof) they go there. I think it ultimately increases the quality of the other forums.

One of you go to the Pit right now and come back with a list of the thread you feel "reflects badly" (to whom?) on the SDMB community. There are a few here and there, but many are quite entertaining and make valid points, IMO.

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Back off, man. I'm a scientist.

[Ringo]

It appears to be 4 to 2 in favor of the Pit at the moment...

Add me to the "fer" list, beatle.

I have only recently ventured there myself, but thought the "Learn to Proofread, FUCKOS" was absolutely hilarious.

I agree that the general rants about non-use of turn signals, not picking up after oneself, etc., could be posted in MPSIMS, but the Pit allows a certain freedom of expression not afforded in the other forums.

Keep the Pit. If it starts to outpace General Questions in the number of posts, be alarmed. Otherwise, read it if you like it; skip it if you don't.


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Sue from El Paso
members.aol.com/majormd/index.html (http://members.aol.com/majormd/index.html)

[TubaDiva]

The nice thing about all the different forums here at the Straight Dope is the variety. There's a lot of different things you can do here.

And the even nicer part, you can skip the things you don't care for and spend all your time on the things you enjoy.

For those of us who struggled through two forums when we were on AOL (you had your choice of General Questions and Comments About Cecil's Columns), having this sort of choice is really cool.

You don't have to like everything . . . it's like dinner; you don't have to eat all your vegetables. You can even feed 'em to the dog, that's okay with us. :)

your humble TubaDiva
Not your Mom

[Arnold Winkelried]

I personally agree with the OP. I think the BBQ pit reflects badly on the rest of the (forums? fora?)

I don't see how that would cause fights starting in another area. All the moderator has to do is say "I'm closing this thread because it's degenerating, please take your fights somewhere else."

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La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l'on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l'on dit.
H. de Livry

[Byzantine]

The pit has it's place in all of this. I like it and see why it was started. If you are mad and just want to spew, that's where you go. And most regular posters know they need to take their flame wars there. I vote to keep it. Like my vote means a rat's ass.....

[Gazelle]

I love the Pit.

I'll go there, all pissed off and annoyed, post an original topic and end up laughing my ass off an hour later at all of the hilarious replies.

The Pit works.

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Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, dogs are from Pluto.

[whitetho]

I thought maybe The Pit could be set up as its own independent site, but www.TheBBQPit.com (http://www.TheBBQPit.com) has already been claimed, apparantly by Microsoft, of all people...

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All Hail Uncle Cecil! Buy His Books! Click On His Ad Banners!

[Minxsmom]

Chalk another one up for keeping the pit. When I'm all in a snit about something, I stop in there, and by the time I've read a topic or two, I no longer have any need to post my gripe - I'm too busy laughing.

And, I think it says quite a bit about the general intelligence and maturity level of this board that the members are willing to leave off in other forums and take their gripes with each other to an assigned place. You hurl a few insults, clear the air, and all is good again - with no disruption of the other forums, and, usually, not even too much disruption of the original thread. It's little things (well, maybe not so little) like this that make this board such a pleasure.

[Arnold Winkelried]

One of you go to the Pit right now and come back with a list of the thread you feel "reflects badly" (to whom?) on the SDMB community.

How about this one? The FUCK YOU thread (http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000255.html)

Like I said, the word fuck doesn't offend me. But it makes the board look puerile.

Now that I've gone to check out the BBQ Pit (I don't spend a lot of time there), I see that most of the threads could be in Great Debates or MPSIMS. And that's my main point. What's the need for the BBQ Pit? What purpose does it serve that can't be served by another forum?

The only answers I can see:
It allows people to use the word "fuck" or other words that they think are "naughty" and get a giggle out of it. Well, I don't see why those words aren't allowed in the other areas.
It allows people to gratuitously insult each other. (The description is "If you gotta flame, do it here.") I don't see why that behaviour needs to be allowed. I would imagine that people that are smart enough to read Cecil's column can be smart enough to debate someone without resorting to the "Yo' mama is so ugly..." kind of argument.

I will say, though, that I have to admire the conviction and forceful arguments of people like pldennison. If I ever was in the pit, I would want to make sure he was on my side.

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La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l'on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l'on dit.
H. de Livry

[Jodi]

I don't hang in the Pit much (though I do lurk), but the ONE time I got seriously torqued with someone, I was glad to have a forum to take the argument. If we had stayed in the forum we were in initially, we would have further detracted from an on-going conversation about something else and instead forced people not involved in the fight to put up with sitting through the fight. It's nice to theorize that no fighting would be allowed, but let's face it -- that'll never happen. So I think it's good to have a place to take it where you can be indignant or furious or sarcastic or, yes, even offensive without involving people who probably would rather not be involved.

I also think some of the threads in the Pit (notably those posted of late by Alphagene) are hilarious. The Pit is where the P.C. gloves come off, and some of the things posted there are very funny but yet inappropriate to any other forum. I say keep it.

[Sycorax]

Keep the pit! It's often funny,and it's nice to have a place to unload. It isn't just for
fighting with other posters -- sometimes you just want to sound off about something that really bugs you, and it's nice to hear from other people who feel the same way. If you don't like it, don't go there!

[Louie]

Let's vote for it.

Click here to vote to keep or get rid of the pit. (http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000323.html)

[TubaDiva]

Wait a minute here.

When did you get the idea that this is a matter -- that you have a vote on in the first place?

Do you go to AOL and vote on policy? Does Steve Case abide by your wishes?

Are you routinely asked your opinion on business matters on other websites?

Do other companies run their sites at your dictate?

What makes you think you have the right to call policy here?

We want your input -- we want to know what you think and how you use the site, sure we do -- but this is not the Straight Dope Democracy, it's a commercial site and it's run as the Chicago Reader sees fit.

Until you work for the Reader in a sufficient place of responsibility and oversight of this place, sorry, you do not have a vote.

I'm crossposting this notice in the other threads -- so don't think you're seeing duplicates.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope

[JillGat]

[[The boards are already being censored by the moderators.]]

I keep seeing this and I just wanted to say again that this board is very very very rarely "censored." I also keep hearing that we don't allow members to criticize or disrespect moderators. Take a look around the board. Don't look like much of that is censored out to me.
Jill

[whitetho]

I was merely using a standard definition of a censor: an official with the power to examine publications, movies, television programs, etc. and to remove or prohibit anything considered obscene, libelous, etc. As far as I can tell, 100% of this board is reviewed--censored if you will--by the moderators. However, as we both point out, very little is ever excised.

(Don't tell the other moderators, 'cause they'll get jealous, but I think Comments on Cecil's Columns is the best message board, and it reflects highly on you that you were the one chosen as moderator).

[TubaDiva]

You know what, TubaDiva? We get that. You are so ham-handed about pounding into our heads the fact that we have no say in how things are run that everyone with a single brain cell in their head is aware of that. How could we not be? You tell us every chance you get.

Maybe I jumped a bit, sure . . . and maybe I even jumped more than the event warranted.

It's easy to let common sense get overrun by negative energy. Feeling attacked will make a person defensive.

I'm sorry that I'm not always able to shrug it off and I'm even sorrier when that sort of thing causes me to lose perspective.

Usually this place is fun. I need to remember that more.

your humble TubaDiva
being disgustingly human.

[JillGat]

[[(Don't tell the other moderators, 'cause they'll get jealous, but I think Comments on Cecil's Columns is the best message board, and it reflects highly on you that you were the one chosen as moderator).]]

Thanks, Whitetho! It's an easier board to moderate than some of the others. And I won't tell you what I had to do to get that job.
Jill

[Court Jester]

Tuba Diva says:
Feeling attacked will make a person defensive.


Didn't nearly all the brouhahas of the last week or so get started by someone thinking they were being attacked and then getting defensive? The Pit at least lets those that feel they have been attacked express/defend themselves.
As to the "vote". I don't think anyone feels it would be binding on the board gods. But I am surprised that you would get so upset that the posters on this board would have an opinion. I get the feeling that the only opinions you think we should be allowed to have are those you give to us. But this is all a tempest in a teapot anyway, last time I checked there were only about 46 votes, not exactly a screaming mandate one way or the other.



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A hat with bells on is not funny, it is the jester underneath.

[Doug Bowe]

47 votes. Keep it.

[Alphagene]

Trust me, you don't want Pit-izens in MPSIMS.

We'd come storming into that nice happy forum if the Pit were shut down. Grizzly unwashed angry men and women shouting and screaming all over MPSIMS. Knocking all the stuffed animals off the bed, decapitating the Barbie dolls, and smoking the potpourri.

Plus, if this (http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000363.html) thread is any indication, we'd probably empty out the fridge pretty quick, too. :)

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Back off, man. I'm a scientist.

[Jodi]

You know what, TubaDiva? We get that. You are so ham-handed about pounding into our heads the fact that we have no say in how things are run that everyone with a single brain cell in their head is aware of that. How could we not be? You tell us every chance you get.

The people around here can vote on any damn thing they please, and they don't need your permission to do so. That doesn't serve to change the Board into a democracy (which it isn't and shouldn't be), but you don't have to leap in and underscore how little the opinion of the Board patrons means to "management" before anyone has even asked you to change anything.

I like the Pit. I like the Board. I have no problem with how it's run; I know it's Ed's party and if I don't like it I can leave. But it seems to me you ought to save the repression until such time as someone tries to get a revolution under way.

[poppyp]

Hey, Whitetho ..... Maybe the line is thinner than you think! Maybe the BBQ is preventing 'Act II' up in the Dallas Tower! Folks need to vent. BBQ is a great place to do that. The spill-over, thereof, is incidental! Ya' know, I could be wrong...but seems to me, there's room for everybody.

[Ukulele Ike]

Gee, I post in BOTH the pit and MPSIMS. Have I got one of them split poisonalities?

Granted, I don't flame all that much in the Pit, being essentially level-headed and angelic and as cute as the dickens.

And formulating one of those rants always drains me; I have to go and lie down for a few hours afterward.

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Uke

[Ukulele Ike]

Gee, I post in BOTH the Pit and MPSIMS. Have I got one of them split poisonalities?

Granted, I don't flame all that much in the Pit, being essentially level-headed and angelic and as cute as the dickens.

And formulating one of those rants always drains me; I have to go and lie down for a few hours afterward.

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Uke

[Ukulele Ike]

[Note to self: STOP button does NOT stop a "Submit Reply" command. Do a better job of proofreading and capitalizing things like "Pit" the FIRST time around.]

[Arnold Winkelried]

Ike, it's not a split personality you've got, it's a dual personality.

Most people seem to be in favour of keeping the BBQ pit.

All I can say is the thread that Alphagene mentioned above, this thread (http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000363.html), seems to me another good example of why the BBQ pit is not constructive and if anything increases hostility amongst members. Flame wars are counter-productive.

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La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l'on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l'on dit.
H. de Livry

[Jodi]

Well, Phil, there's torqued and then there's ape-shit torqued. You may drive me nuts occasionally, but at least you fight fair. Besides, I find myself <gulp> agreeing with you on an alarming number of (non-religious) subjects, so that also dials down the Torque-O-Meter. :)

TubaDiva -- I understand, and I apologize for my asperity. I just wanted to point out that the truly benign dictator only points out he's a dictator when it's absolutely necessary. Don't let one or two (or nine or ten) posters or posting debacles make you defensive; the vast majority of us like it here just the way it is, and we express that by hanging around.

[pldennison]

I'm just happy to discover that jodih was never seriously torqued with me. Woohoo!

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"Come on, Phonics Monkey--drum!"

[speakeasy]

Two things.

1) Until quite recently I ONLY hung out in the Pit. It's the place I can go, say exactly what's on my mind, and expect to get straight opinions in return. You flush the Pit, I'm instantly gone.

2)
[Wait a minute here.

When did you get the idea that this is a matter -- that you have a vote on in the first place?]

Everywhere I go it's the same old horse exhaust. Let's go over it again. You guys put up the framework, and we bring it to life. Sure, you can pull the plug or paint the place oxblood if you like. And us teeming millions can vote with our keyboards and surf on. So think before you yank on that choker chain again.

Hasta

[Satan]

The Pit is a useful forum. I think some threads have gotten out of hand, but for the most part, it's a great place to disagree with someone a bit louder than elsewhere.

Everyt civilized society has it's places where one can unwind and act a little uncivilized, no? And our very civilized society has a place as well. Let it be... Nobody makes you go there!

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Yer pal,
Satan

[Byzantine]

Arnold Winkelried – yes, THAT thread (The I'm fat so you hate me thread) was like a very bad parody of the Monty Python argument clinic. After repeated attempts to bring it back into the realm of argument rather than just automatic nay-saying, Lynn suggested shutting it down and I agreed. Again, not like MY vote would have mattered just that I felt responsible since I started it.

But most threads in the Pit do not get so off track. I still like the Pit but yes, sometimes it gets so hateful that it doesn't promote anything but more hate; but it isn't always like that.

Do I now hate all of those members that disagreed with me? No. We disagreed. That's all. Just like you and I disagree on this issue.


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Best!
Byz

[speakeasy]

... None of which is to imply that anybody is doing a bad job with the boards around here. You just rattled my cage, I always come up snapping like that.

Note to self - Ease up on the Stone Temple Pilots.

I like the existence of the Pit. I gives me a place to avoid. Those of us who remember the old AOL forum know that you had to dig through the flaming piles of randomly distributed abuse in order to find the intelliegent and rational conversations. Personally, I found it all so distasteful that I periodically had to leave the board just to detox. I commend this group for realizing that people come here for different reasons and there's no reason you need to eat everything on the menu.