Necronomicon

[AlexxKay]

I ran across a copy of HPL's pamphlet, History of the Necronomicon in the Brandeis University Library -- filed as non-fiction! Not sure if the librarian was deliberately joking, or just taken in by the format, but this is exactly the sort of thing that keeps belief in its reality alive :-)

[Cervaise]

link to column (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mnecromicon.html)

Just wanted to say, that was a wicked cool report, Dex. Kudos.

Makes me want to go back and re-read all my Lovecraft. It's been years, I tell you, years...

[robby]

My university had an psuedo-organization called "Campus Crusade for Cthulhu."

Outside of T-shirts and posters, it didn't actually exist. It mostly served to scandalize the real "crusaders." (You know, the God-fearing fundamentalists.) :D It served that purpose quite well.

[Irishman]

Uh, has anyone else noticed that it's spelled "Necronomicon" everywhere else but in the title of the Staff Report, where it's spelled "Necromicon"? So Dex, was that you, Ed Zotti, or some nameless pion copyboy? ;)

[KneadToKnow]

Irishman beat me to it. Shite.

[Duck Duck Goose]

Peon? Prion?

[C K Dexter Haven]

My spelling is always perfect. Well, mostly. Well, more than half the time. But Ed, man, Cecil gotta crack the whip on Ed again, he's getting sloppy.

On the other hand, when it comes to SPELLing, if I place the black candles just SO, and throw incense in the air like THAT, and mumble the magic charm while turning on my heel three times... I bet that I can change reality, so that the title will have the correct spelling henceforth. Nothin' like a little warping of the fabric of space and time to keep editors on their toes.

[Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 07-03-2001 at 03:22 PM]

[lno]

Dex knows just as well as I do that these staff reports are all fine and good, but the Old Ones have little patience for such flimflammery, and he wrote that report solely to mislead those who would follow the Old Ones without being properly prepared.

Fhtagn, I say. Fhtagn.

[Some Guy]

Originally posted by LNO
Fhtagn, I say. Fhtagn.
Nonsense. Wagh'nagl. It's been proven.

:p

Dex: Great report you did there. There are a couple of things I want to point out, though.

1. The Call of Cthulhu, whil certainly HPL's best known work, doesn't really mention much of what would be later considered "The Mythos". It only mentions Cthulhu (duh). On the other hand, it's definitely the single most imitated piece of work that Lovecraft produced. As Dex implies, most of his imitators, well-meaning or not, failed quite badly.

2. A minor point: [i]The Case of Charles Dexter Ward[/], while definitely completed by 1927, was never published by Lovecraft - it was only discovered and published after his death in 1937.

3. You mentioned one website in your bibliography. An even better one is Donovan Loucks' site at http://www.hplovecraft.com .

Oh, and there used to be (and probably still is) a USENET newsgroup called alt.necromicon (note spelling). It was the result of either a typographical error or a deliberate obfuscation, but at least your misspelling has precedent.

[andros]

I'm sorry. It has to be done. It was time for a sig change anyway . . .

[rowrrbazzle]

Originally posted by Irishman
Uh, has anyone else noticed that it's spelled "Necronomicon" everywhere else but in the title of the Staff Report, where it's spelled "Necromicon"? So Dex, was that you, Ed Zotti, or some nameless pion copyboy? ;)Gaudere's Law strikes again? Or are you suggesting the Straight Dope now has subatomic particles on the staff? :D

IIRC, in de Camp's autobiography of HPL, he says that HPL also edited other writer's stories and, with their permission, inserted the references himself. Is de Camp correct?

[Fenris]

Hey Dex: Truly awesome article, but I've got a question. You said DeCamp wrote (or helped write) a Necronomicon? Do you have any bibliographic info on that particular version? I'm a big DeCamp fan and'd love to get my hands on a copy.

Fenris

[Gaspode]

Originally posted by zgystardst
IIRC, in de Camp's autobiography of HPL, he says that HPL also edited other writer's stories and, with their permission, inserted the references himself. Is de Camp correct? [/B]

Absolutely. Lovecraft obtained income, at least early on, as a proofreader/editor for other writers, while some writers simply asked for his input on their stories. In both cases he was given to adding touches of the Cthulhu mythos. Some of the best mythos stories ever (IMHO)were written in this way. Zelia Bishop's "The Mound" is one example and is probably better than any of Lovecrafts individual works.

If you've never read any of these collaborations (and I recommend that you do so if you enjoy Lovecraft's work) try to get ahold of "The Horror in the Museum", which used to be a bound collection of some of these works.

[Ukulele Ike]

Originally posted by Gaspode
try to get ahold of "The Horror in the Museum"

And try to get ahold of the first edition from 1970, with the blindingly cool wraparound dustjacket art by Gahan Wilson.

Yet another Lovecraft Nerd stepping in to pat CDex on the back for the fine, succinct essay. Still can't believe you're doing this for free.



From the wells of night to the gulfs of space, and from the gulfs of space to the wells of night, ever the praises of Great Cthulhu, of Tsathoggua, and of Him Who is not to be Named. Ever their praises, and abundance to the Black Goat of the Woods. Ia! Shub-Niggurath! The Goat with a Thousand Young!

[Abd ALhazred]

You're wrong! It's all true! All true, I tell you. Bwahahahahahahaha. <hysteric laughter fades>

[Some Guy]

Fenris:

You may, or may not have already heard of the DeCamp Necronomicon - it is, in retrospect, the most obvious hoax you could ever come up with. It consists of a bound hardcover volume containing untranslated arabic script. In point of fact, it consists of the same eight pages of arabic script, reproduced multiple times. Frighteningly, this edition was reported to be archived in a number of better libraries at one point. DeCamp invented a fiction history for its "discovery" and lack of translation, but he later said publicly that it was never intended to be even a very thorough hoax. I can't recall offhand whether it was published before or after his biography of Lovecraft.

[BooBoo316]

Thanks a lot, Dex. Now I have to go read all my Lovecraft again.

Regardless, that was some great research work and a great article. Good job.

[Gaspode]

Just noticed this:
Originally posted by zgystardst
IIRC, in de Camp's autobiography of HPL.....[/B]

Autobiography :confused:

HPL Preincarnated :confused:

The worm that walks :eek:

That is not dead which can eternal lie.... :D

[Lorelei]

When discussing dangerous books, let's not forget the great and mysterious Necrotelicomnicon, AKA the Liber Paginarum Fulvarum. Kept between iron plates at Unseen University, these convenient guides to the underworld let your fingers do the walking. Even when your hands are several yards away.

You'll find this dread volume, along with many other books that must be chained up at night, in the works of Terry Pratchett.

Lorelei
who prefers to chain *people* up at night
and leave the books running loose

[Some Guy]

Originally posted by Gaspode
Just noticed this:
Originally posted by zgystardst
IIRC, in de Camp's autobiography of HPL.....

Autobiography :confused:

HPL Preincarnated :confused:

The worm that walks :eek:

That is not dead which can eternal lie.... :D [/B]

Heh, my bad.

Well, either that, or my mad gibbering hints at the utmost nuclear chaos that the Necronomicon itself only dares to mention in a single deranged and oblique couplet.

It's one of the two, for sure.

[C K Dexter Haven]

<< let's not forget the great and mysterious Necrotelicomnicon, AKA the Liber Paginarum Fulvarum. Kept between iron plates at Unseen University >>

Lorelei, thanks. I'm now doing a d'oh! to whonk myself on the forehead for not including a mention of those dangerous volumes of magic that are chained to the shelves (to keep them from escaping.)

And thanks to all for the kind words about the Staff Report.

[Cervaise]

And what about the Necrolemmingcon? Read it, and you want to jump off a cliff.

Oh wait, that's John Grisham. Hmmm...

[Dr.Pinky]

Bravo, CDex, and to you quibblers, just try to do better in 500 words or less. 9fume0

I'm going to break with my bretheren here... when one receives their bachelors in english, you have to swear eternal damnation to Stephen King; when you get your masters, it's King, Heinlein and Adams; by the time they dub you Doctor of English, no special ceremony is necessary to ward you away from HPL... it is equivalent to shooting yourself in the head & throwing your checkbook in the river...

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Lovecraft was heavily influenced by another, earlier writer. His works are sometime regarded as part of the Mythos.

Edward, Lord Dunsany was an Irish nobleman who founded modern fantasy fiction as we know it today. His writings predated Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, & Lovecraft by decades. His prose fiction reads like poetry, in a way I find very hard to explain. It begs to be read aloud.

In front of a large audience. :cool:

His stuff is undergoing a minor revival. I expect you can get it at Amazon, or other on line bookstores.

Chaosium Press came out with The Complete Pegana, as part of their Call Of Cthulu series.

I also picked up a collection of Dunsany's short stories--The Hashish Man. Very good stuff.

In later years, he was a successful playwright.


Look up his stuff. It's worth the work.

[Ukulele Ike]

Oh, it's not that hard to find...Dover Publications has kept Gods, Men, and Ghosts: The Best Supernatural Fiction of Lord Dunsany in print since 1972.

As I've said before around this joint, "The Three Sailors' Gambit" is the best spooky chess story ever written. And "The Hoard of the Gibbelins" is merely a delight.

The Jorkens stories are also marvelous, but harder to come across..."In a Dim Room" has been anthologized frequently, and rightfully so.

[C K Dexter Haven]

Not to quibble, Bosda, but the Staff Report did mention that Lovecraft was heavily influenced by the earlier writings of Poe, Dunsany, and Bierce.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven
Not to quibble, Bosda, but the Staff Report did mention that Lovecraft was heavily influenced by the earlier writings of Poe, Dunsany, and Bierce.


Sorry. Forgot that.

No.

I'm lying.

I wanted to sell as many people as possible on Dunsany.

Mongo bad boy. :(

[C K Dexter Haven]

Got a fan letter about the Staff Report that I thought I'd share with y'all:

<< Hello,

Very much enjoyed your treatise on Lovecraft and the Necronomicon. Two
things I'll point out: One: you mention Ramsey Campbell as being a
contemporary of HPL. I don't think so -- not unless Ramsey's a lot older
than he looks. And two: You wrap up the article by saying "Tell me
Ghostbusters didn't lift from this." Well, I can't speak for the movie, but
I can assure you the spinoff cartoon show (The Real Ghostbusters) did,
'cause I was the one who did it. I wrote over a dozen TRG scripts, one of
which was called "The Collect Call of Cthulhu" (it was spelled "Cathulhu"
on the title card, possibly in an inane attempt to avoid copyright
hassles. Or maybe the guys at DIC Studios just assumed they were correcting
a misspelling.) At any rate, in that episode the Boys track the stolen
Necronomicon, which leads them to a cult intent on raising Big Green from
his slumber on the ocean's floor. Trouble, as they say, ensues. If you'd
like to read my original script, it can be found on my website at:

http://www.mindspring.com/~michaelreaves/callpreface.htm

Thanks to you and all your colleagues for the consistently fine work you
all do on TSD. As a full-time writer, I find your website invaluable for
research. Plus, it always makes me smile -- and for a guy in my business,
that's worth a lot too.

Michael Reaves >>

[DaveW]

Ukulele Ike wrote:. . .Him Who is not to be Named. . .Just to keep the True Believers on their toes: Hastur! Hastur! Hastur!

Bwahahahaha!

- Dave W.
http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
"My dream is of a day where every SDMB poster will have a quote of mine in their sig." - Arnold Winkelried

[detop]

Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven
Got a fan letter about the Staff Report that I thought I'd share with y'all:

<snip>At any rate, in that episode the Boys track the stolen
Necronomicon, which leads them to a cult intent on raising Big Green from
his slumber on the ocean's floor.
(bolding mine)

Cthulhu is Godzilla ? :eek:

BTW, very good work CK. And Bosda, HPL in his essay on Supernatural fiction acknowledged his debt to Dunsany. Also another author who influenced him was Arthur Machen.

But I have another question, is it true that Lovecraft did the first English translation of Mein Kampf ? I encountered that tidbit of information in a French Lovecraft bio by Maurice Levy.

[Arnold Winkelried]

I'm confused again. DaveW mentioned the name "Hastur".
I haven't read a lot of H.P. Lovecraft, only the book "Tales of H. P. Lovecraft, edited and selected by Joyce Carol Oates", which includes the following stories:
The Outsider, The Music of Erich Zann, The Rats in the Walls, The Shunned House, The Call of Cthulhu, The Colour Out of Space, The Dunwich Horror, At the Mountains of Madness, The Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Shadow Out of Time.
I don't remember seeing the name "Hastur" in there (and it probably would have attracted my attention at the time because I'm familiar with the SDMB poster named "Hastur"). On the other hand, I've seen that name in the short story "The Repairer of Reputations" by Robert Chambers (author of "The King In Yellow").
So is Hastur, whoever or whatever it is, also mentioned in Lovecraft? If I'm not mistaken, "The King In Yellow" was published before Lovecraft started writing his stories.

[Manduck]

It's been a long time since I read it, but I'm pretty sure Hastur the Unspeakable, Dweller in the Air and Aether makes an appearance in The Colour Out Of Space. but I could be wrong

[Some Guy]

Well, since hastur is probably not gonna coment on this, here's a brief history of the term:

1. Hastur was first used by Ambrose Bierce, interestingly enough, in his short story Haita the Shepherd (http://www.yankeeclassic.com/miskatonic/englishl/bierce/haita.htm). Hastur as used by Bierce simply referred to a benign pastoral deity.

2. Robert W. Chambers' famous collection The King in Yellow (http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/l_kiy.htm) borrowed concepts from both Haita the Shepherd and another Bierce story, An Inhabitant of Carcosa (http://dontyson.tripod.com/carcosa.html), but changed the meaning of many of the names he borrowed. In The King in Yellow, Hastur is used as a place-name (and once as the name of a servant, for reasons that are not very clear), not as the name of a supernatural entity. It's worth noting that Lovecraft was inspired almost directly by the internal frame of this book (in which several of the stories revolve around or at lest mention a blasphemous play, also titled "The King in Yellow") in his creation of the Necronomicon.

3. August Derleth borrowed from one or both of these sources in his early Lovecraft-imitative work (no links, both because his work is mostly still under copyright, and because Derleth was a serious wanker anyway). At various times, he referred to Hastur as Cthulhu's brother, or opposite, etc.

4. One of HPL's later stories, The Whisperer in Darkness (again, still under copyright)does mention Hastur. There's a rather famous quote that Loveraft intended as an homage to various people whom he'd already given permission to use his concepts for stories of their own, which deliberately connects them with his own work:


I found myself faced by names and terms that I had heard elsewhere in the most hideous of connections - Yuggoth, Great Cthulhu, Tsathoggua, YogSothoth, R'lyeh, Nyarlathotep, Azathoth, Hastur, Yian, Leng, the Lake of Hali, Bethmoora, the Yellow Sign, L'mur-Kathulos, Bran, and the Magnum Innominandum - and was drawn back through nameless aeons and inconceivable dimensions to worlds of elder, outer entity at which the crazed author of the Necronomicon had only guessed in the vaguest way.



As far as I'm aware, this is the only time Lovecraft used the word "Hastur" in his own work, and he was clearly using it simply as a reference to Derleth.

5. I should note that a fair number of works attributed to "H. P. Lovecraft and August Derleth" do make reference to Hastur. However, despite the authorial attribution, these works were written entirely by Derleth, after Lovecraft's death. In most cases, they do include some snippet of Lovecraft material in the text, though a couple of them actually contain nothing but an epigrammatic quote taken from HPL's previously published work.

In other words (!!SUMMARY HERE!!) Hastur, as the term is commonly understood, was acknowledged by HPL, but was actually a creation of Derleth, borrowing heavily from earlier works.

[PStamler]

In your otherwise excellent account, you said: "His father had a breakdown in 1893; it is now clear that he had syphilis, but at the time, diagnosis and treatment of the disease were unknown." Uh-uh. The diagnosis of syphilis was quite clear cut by 1893; it's just that, for respectable middle-class white folks, the family doctor would never write such a scandalous word into the official records. As for treatment, there were treatments available, and had been for centuries. The only problem was that they almost all involved various compounds of mercury, which is exceptionally toxic (see the Mad Hatter in Alice), and were often adjudged to be no improvement over having the disease.

[andros]

While we're on the subject, I have to make a shameless plug for the best gaming/hobby store in the world:

Hastur Hobbies: The Shop that is not to be Named

Owned and operated in Salt Lake City by the often-imitated but never duplicated Cthulhu Bob.

[vanilla]

I read a book that actually claimed a guy brought the book into his house and his 5 year old daughter got real quiet, then went upstairs.
He went up and saw that she had slit her throat with some knife.
It was blamed (by the author) on the book.
This was a fundie author, mind you.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Some Guy
Fenris:

You may, or may not have already heard of the DeCamp Necronomicon - it is, in retrospect, the most obvious hoax you could ever come up with. It consists of a bound hardcover volume containing untranslated arabic script. In point of fact, it consists of the same eight pages of arabic script, reproduced multiple times

I hadn't heard about it before. I found a copy being offered for sale at about $40.00 after I read Dex's article. Um...8 pages (plus the introduction) isn't even close to being worth it. Thanks for the warning, it's much appreciated!

Fenris

[Chronos]

Well, that should make the Reader's Digest Condensed Version a lot simpler, then.

So, does anyone know of a translation of those eight pages? Is it even real Arabic script, or just random squiggles which look Arabic? Just pages copied out of the Koran, perhaps?

[Some Guy]

Unfortunately, every single description of it that I've ever seen has been second- or third-hand; they agree on the general description, but I've never seen anything with regards to an actual translation. In all likelihood, it's probably some mundane manuscript with neato-looking script; barring that, it may well just be an Arabic calligraphy exercise :)

[Steve Wright]

FWIW - online article by Dave Langford (http://www.ansible.demon.co.uk/writing/ft95.html), one of the people involved in the George Hay "Necronomicon", about the various spoof versions of the book.

[Some Guy]

FWIW: despite Langford's talk about "tales on the Internet", that's the first mention I've ever heard of a 1907 Necronomicon. Regardless of the immediate debunking, I'm pretty sure Langford's still trying to spread tales there. The other stuff is pretty much accurate.

This also gives me an excuse to link to
this (http://www.ceres.dti.ne.jp/~dune/bigcddlycthulhu/bigcthulhu.htm) site that I found yesterday. It's in Japanese, but the pictures say it all. Click on the link for more... if you dare.

[Arnold Winkelried]

Thank you for the information on Hastur, Some Guy. I like the "benign pastoral deity" persona, which is also the original Hastur.

[John W. Kennedy]

Howcum no-one's mentioning "The King in Yellow"?

[Arnold Winkelried]

Uh, John W. Kennedy, it's been mentioned twice in this thread.

[catmandu42]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the fact that back in 1980, TSR released the book "Deities & Demigods" for it's Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying game. In that first edition was included almost the entire Lovecraftian "Old Ones" mythos. That section was pulled from later editions because of some sort of complaints about it. (copyrights or mad mothers, can't remember) The books that have that section in it have become quite valuable from what I hear.

[DaveW]

Catmandu42 wrote:The books that have that section in it have become quite valuable from what I hear.
Dammit! I actually gave all my old D&D stuff away quite some time ago because it was taking up too much space. My copy of Deities & Demigods was first edition.

As for why that book hasn't been discussed - my only guess would be that it's not the best of references works. :)

By the way, thanks Some Guy, for the explanation on Hastur. My first post in this thread was meant as nothing but a joke, as my old D&D buddies who had some belief (however small) in the reality of the mythos would visibly cringe whenever I said 'Hastur' in their presence.

Of course, to some who think that perception somehow makes reality, I'm just playing with fire. Which brings to mind the old Fineous Fingers cartoons in Dragon magazine. In the Fineous Treasury, there's a great bit where Fineous and a friend are stuck at a door in a dungeon. Fineous is busy trying to pick the lock, when his friend suddenly shouts, "Crom! Odin! Zeus!"

Fineous (going by memory): "Hey! You can't just go around calling on Gods that way! I mean, what if I were to say 'Asmodeus' and..."

-POOF-

Asmodeus: "You called?"

The point being, if Hastur ever becomes real, I'm completely screwed, retroactively.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I've seen it.

The University of Iowa Main Library has a copy in their Special Collections wing (for old and rare books, so they can't be checked out). Here's some info from the catalogue:

Author Alhazred, Abdul.
Title Al azif (the Necronomicon) by Abdul Alhazred. Pref. by L. Sprague de Camp.
Published Philadelphia, Owlswick Press, 1973.
ISBN 0913896012
Description xi [197] p. 26 cm.
Subject Manuscripts -- Facsimiles.
Authors, etc. De Camp, L. Sprague (Lyon Sprague), 1907-
Other titles The Necronomicon.
General Note Facsim. of reputed Duriac manuscript.
General Note Edition limited to 348 copies.
Local Note Introd. signed: L. Sprague de Camp.
System Number xxxxxxxxx
Format BK

Location SPECIAL COLLECTIONS x-Collection xxxxxx .xxxxx

I covered up some numbers above to be safe.

To view it, I had to submit the catalogue number, have it brought to me, stay in the wing's reading area, and set it on a shelf when I was done.

The book was number 203, I think. Definately a fake, but probably the most legitimate looking Necronomicon around.

At least there's no mention of the name 'Simon', or mixing of Sumarian mythology. :)

[jab1]

Our favorite publisher of Christian tracts, Jack T. Chick, believes that the Necronomicon is real. Read about it here, (http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp) in his anti-Dungeons & Dragons article. If you don't want to read the article in its entirety (though it is amusing) read this quote: [Michael] Stackpole... is a Biblical ignoramus. That is too bad, for him and for his readers. He is also pretty ignorant about hard-core occultism, as mentioned earlier, when he mocks the Necronomicon and claims it is entirely fictional. It is not, and its use (even in part) has led to the destruction of many young minds and souls. I have personally watched it happen.Yeah, surrrrre you have.... :rolleyes:

[C K Dexter Haven]

I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr Chick has watched the destruction of many young minds and souls. I have no doubt that he has encouraged and actively participated in that destruction.

But he didn't use the Necronomicon. He used the Bible-according-to-Chick.

[robby]

Originally posted by catmandu42
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the fact that back in 1980, TSR released the book "Deities & Demigods" for it's Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying game. In that first edition was included almost the entire Lovecraftian "Old Ones" mythos. That section was pulled from later editions because of some sort of complaints about it. (copyrights or mad mothers, can't remember) The books that have that section in it have become quite valuable from what I hear.

Wow! How valuable are we talking about?

(I still have my entire collection of AD&D stuff dating from 1979 to 1983. It includes the original Monster Manual, Dungeon Master's Guide, Players Handbook, Fiend Folio, and Deities & Demigods. I've also got about 20 modules of the same time period.)

[PbZep]

Originally posted by Spanky The Dolphin
I've seen it.

The University of Iowa Main Library has a copy in their Special Collections wing (for old and rare books, so they can't be checked out).

I've seen the same book at the Bloomington campus of Indiana University in the Lilly Library of Rare Books and Manuscripts. I too had to give the information to the librarian and she brought the book out with gloved hands and instructed me to turn the pages with a little spatula that she provided (wouldn't want finger oils and such ruining the book). The edition I was presented had one great drawback though, it was written in a language I did not recognize. Oh, and it was written backward too if I remember (but I could have had the book upside down). You can see the entry at:
[ Alas, link no longer works and has been disabled by Administrator on 11/21/01 ]

[Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 11-21-2001 at 07:50 AM]

[jab1]

That link doesn't work.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

That language is an old form of Arabic (I think it starts with a "D".) Arabic is written from right to left (like Hebrew, Chinese, and Japanese,) and books in these languages have are also "backwards" compared to western books ("back" cover is the "front" cover).

Not that it really matters, since it's just the same dozen or so lines of text repeated randomly for several hundred pages.

[Dijon Warlock]

Amazon's got the de Camp Necronomicon for sale (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587150433/ref=ase_thenorthtexasske/104-9061571-8119949). Paperback. Pfui! Any self-respecting publisher will put out grimoires in quality hard-bound leather, or not even bother. That's why I make MY Necromicon the SIMON Necronomicon. It's cool lookin'. I agree with folks: great report, Dex.