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Grrr!
06-09-2016, 01:04 PM
I'm not sure why NY style pizza is supposed to be the be all end all of pizzas.


Yes, I know, I live in Dallas Texas, and we Texans know squat about pizza. But we do have quite a few M&P shops around here that are supposed to be the real deal.


The toppings and sauce are spot on. But the crust I don't really care for. You pick a slice up, and it just goes limp right there in your hand (shut up).

So my question is, shouldn't a properly cooked NY style pizza have at least a little bit of crunch to it? Are the folks in my neck of the woods doing it wrong?

DrFidelius
06-09-2016, 01:29 PM
You fold the slice to eat it.

DrFidelius
06-09-2016, 01:32 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/eat-new-york-style-slice-pizza-article-1.1575897

Jophiel
06-09-2016, 01:40 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/eat-new-york-style-slice-pizza-article-1.1575897"It's part of the fun. Not only the food you eat but the way you eat it can be more fun than others," said Ines Kerzan, 27, who's lived in the city for five years.
Folding Pizza! For certain values of "fun" :p

cochrane
06-09-2016, 01:40 PM
I'm with Grrr! A proper slice of pizza is substantial enough not to flop over and dump toppings all over your lap or require a knife and fork to eat

Jackknifed Juggernaut
06-09-2016, 01:41 PM
But we do have quite a few M&P shops around here ...

No you don't. It's simply not possible, and you will agree once you come to the NY area and get a slice. Believe me, I lived in Texas and I dun the research [/Katt Williams].

DrFidelius
06-09-2016, 01:46 PM
Caveat: I have no experience with "New York Style Pizza" in Texas, but the examples I have known from Arizona are a poor imitation of the real thing.

Emtar KronJonDerSohn
06-09-2016, 01:47 PM
My experience in NYC was that I'd come in for lunch, point at a pie, they'd put a slice back in the oven and take my money, then hand me a big thin floppy slice with a crispy bottom from the brick floor of the oven. I'm salivating just thinking about it.

But yeah, you keep it on the paper plate and fold it in half to eat with one hand

magnusblitz
06-09-2016, 01:55 PM
I like NY-style pizza a lot, but the one thing that annoys me about it is how it's often covered in grease that dribbles everywhere, especially when you fold it up. And goes right through those paper plates they come with.

Biggirl
06-09-2016, 02:17 PM
Sometimes, if the pizza is extra greasy it gets floppy but, ideally, it shouldn't flop. The bottom of the crust should be crisp enough to support the upper, softer parts.

Note that in NY there are two types of pizza-- thin crust and thick crust. Thin crust is just the crusty part. Sometimes when you fold it, it cracks. Thick crust is like I described above: crusty on the bottom and saucy, doughy on the top. I prefer thick crust myself.

bump
06-09-2016, 02:17 PM
I'm not sure why NY style pizza is supposed to be the be all end all of pizzas.


Yes, I know, I live in Dallas Texas, and we Texans know squat about pizza. But we do have quite a few M&P shops around here that are supposed to be the real deal.


The toppings and sauce are spot on. But the crust I don't really care for. You pick a slice up, and it just goes limp right there in your hand (shut up).

So my question is, shouldn't a properly cooked NY style pizza have at least a little bit of crunch to it? Are the folks in my neck of the woods doing it wrong?

Are you eating it at the shop, or delivered to your house? I suspect that the environment of a sealed, insulated pizza box on a hot pizza would soften up a crust significantly.

And the only pizza I ever ate in NYC was much more along the lines of the pizzas I ate in Italy than any interpretation of "NYC Style" I've ever had- thin, cracker-like crust, no crust rim to speak of, etc... It was at a joint on Arthur Ave. in the Bronx, so I don't know if it was trying to be Italian or NYC style.

All that said, the local NY style pizza joint ("Primo Brothers" in Lake Highlands) is pretty tasty, even if it may not be 100% stylistically accurate.

Typo Negative
06-09-2016, 02:40 PM
I have never been to NYC.

I have a friend who is from there, and we have shared several 'NYC style' pizzas in the San Fernando Valley. Most were not what he calls NYC.

One that he did call 'really close to NYC' was quite good. :)

I live in Sacramento now. Haven't had a really good pizza since I have been here. :(

TriPolar
06-09-2016, 02:43 PM
New York style is a thin crust based on Neopolitan pizza style. They can be limp and need folding to eat, it's quite common for pizza sold by the slice to need folding because it's larger than the slices found in the typical large pie sold. It doesn't have to be paper thin though. Some people prefer it very thin. Each pizza place has their own style. Many places in the NY area will sell a Sicilian style pizza also. It has a very thick crust, resembling Chicago pizza, except it tastes good.

Boozahol Squid, P.I.
06-09-2016, 02:48 PM
I like NY-style pizza a lot, but the one thing that annoys me about it is how it's often covered in grease that dribbles everywhere, especially when you fold it up. And goes right through those paper plates they come with.

You just need to take about four napkins, and stuff them into the cuff of your shirt, so the grease that dribbles down off the fold and into your palm gets caught before it hits your elbow. The orange oil-soaked plate should be held well out in front of you, and angled slightly downward. It's only purpose (beyond keeping the pizza from touching the counter while you pay the guy your three bucks) is to deflect errant cheese/toppings from dropping onto your shoes.

DrFidelius
06-09-2016, 03:03 PM
New York style is a thin crust based on Neopolitan pizza style. They can be limp and need folding to eat, it's quite common for pizza sold by the slice to need folding because it's larger than the slices found in the typical large pie sold. It doesn't have to be paper thin though. Some people prefer it very thin. Each pizza place has their own style. Many places in the NY area will sell a Sicilian style pizza also. It has a very thick crust, resembling Chicago pizza, except it tastes good.

"Chicago style" is not a pizza; it is a casserole.

TriPolar
06-09-2016, 03:08 PM
"Chicago style" is not a pizza; it is a casserole.

I believe casseroles would resent that remark. They do not claim to be other than what they are.

OffByOne
06-09-2016, 03:16 PM
I ordered a pizza at a small shop in NY state (not the city, but close). When I said I wanted peppers, hamburger, and onions, they looked at me like I had three heads. Apparently, New York style means only one (or fewer) topping.

Drunky Smurf
06-09-2016, 03:17 PM
it's often covered in grease that dribbles everywhere, especially when you fold it up.

This is why I use a fork and knife.

TriPolar
06-09-2016, 03:23 PM
I ordered a pizza at a small shop in NY state (not the city, but close). When I said I wanted peppers, hamburger, and onions, they looked at me like I had three heads. Apparently, New York style means only one (or fewer) topping.

You can usually order all the toppings you want. Perhaps the hamburger threw them off or something, it's an unusual order. In PA there was a local shop that simply used numbers for the type of pizza, like 20 for plain, 22 for pepperoni, and a few other of their most common combinations. They gave out those numbers to customers that called in as if it were their order number and there was occasional chaos as three customers showed up at once saying they were number 22. That was then, most orders were the few basic combinations, since then ordering unique combos seems to be more common.

snowthx
06-09-2016, 03:27 PM
I like NY-style pizza a lot, but the one thing that annoys me about it is how it's often covered in grease that dribbles everywhere, especially when you fold it up. And goes right through those paper plates they come with.

My dad was from Flatbush. He went on-and-on about NY pizza my whole life. He even brought a whole pizza from NY home to Los Angeles on an airplane once in his carry-on luggage, wrapped in foil. He stated you knew how good the NY pizza was based on how far the grease ran down your arm.

Jophiel
06-09-2016, 03:43 PM
"Chicago style" is not a pizza; it is a casserole.
Chicago deep dish isn't how most Chicagoans eat pizza anyway. Usually it's a thin, crisp crust (http://www.realdeepdish.com/2014/07-13-chicago-thin-crust-pizza-yes-its-a-thing/) (but not cracker dry) cut "tavern style" into squares.

The deep dish stuff is more distinctive though so I guess everyone assumes the people of the Windy City eat giant deep slices of pizza as a regular thing.

delphica
06-09-2016, 04:18 PM
I don't even like NY style pizza, and I live here. So I'm not defending it as better than all other pizzas or anything. But, I have never had a "NY style pizza" in some other part of the country that had the same texture/taste as the crust on a NY pizza. It's a combination the crust being very soft and chewy, but then the edge parts of the crust are really crispy and toasty. Even when pizza from other places has the same look, it's a very different mouth feel.

leahcim
06-09-2016, 04:46 PM
You fold the slice to eat it.

Which is a practical application of Gauss's Theorema Egregium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorema_Egregium):

An application of the Theorema Egregium is seen in a common pizza-eating strategy: A slice of pizza can be seen as a surface with constant Gaussian curvature 0. Gently bending a slice must then roughly maintain this curvature (assuming the bend is roughly a local isometry). If one bends a slice horizontally along a radius, non-zero principal curvatures are created along the bend, dictating that the other principal curvature at these points must be zero. This creates rigidity in the direction perpendicular to the fold, an attribute desirable when eating pizza, as it holds its shape long enough to be consumed without a mess.

pulykamell
06-09-2016, 04:52 PM
Chicago deep dish isn't how most Chicagoans eat pizza anyway. Usually it's a thin, crisp crust (http://www.realdeepdish.com/2014/07-13-chicago-thin-crust-pizza-yes-its-a-thing/) (but not cracker dry) cut "tavern style" into squares.

The deep dish stuff is more distinctive though so I guess everyone assumes the people of the Windy City eat giant deep slices of pizza as a regular thing.

Indeed. And even Chicago style deep dish pizza crusts aren't particularly bready. It's not like focaccia or something like that. Maybe 1/2" thick, maybe less. Italian style pan pizzas have thicker crusts. It's the pile of cheese, tomatoes, and toppings that make it thick.

Ukulele Ike
06-09-2016, 06:36 PM
Indeed. And even Chicago style deep dish pizza crusts aren't particularly bready. It's not like focaccia or something like that. Maybe 1/2" thick, maybe less. Italian style pan pizzas have thicker crusts. It's the pile of cheese, tomatoes, and toppings that make it thick.
Yup. One of my Chicago father-in-law's visits to Brooklyn about 20 years back saw us in a pizza joint, and him asking "What's 'Sicilian style?'" "Thick crust," I said. He ordered a slice, bit into it, and sputtered "CHRIST! It's all BREAD."

Also, a Chicago style crust has the flavor and consistency of pie, rather than baked pizza dough. Since I've already consumed more calories than necessary by eating all the sauce and cheese on the sauced cheesed part, I generally toss the crusts.

terentii
06-09-2016, 06:39 PM
If you go to Italy, you'll see that they fold their pieces of pizza there too. Makes sense, actually. Keeps all the toppings from sliding off.

panache45
06-09-2016, 07:35 PM
This is why I use a fork and knife.
You and Donald Trump. :rolleyes:

Chronos
06-09-2016, 07:59 PM
I doubt that I've ever had proper New York style pizza (most of the places I've gotten pizza from haven't even claimed to be NY style), but I still often find that folding the slice helps to maintain its rigidity.

Gatopescado
06-09-2016, 08:04 PM
Any pizza you can fold or don't need a fork for is worthless. Might as well eat toast with ketchup.

Real Pizza (like I make) has 3 or 4 cheeses, 2 or more meats, mushrooms, peppers, onions, artichoke hearts, olives, garlic, tomato slices and goddamn anchovies! (post bake on the fish)

All covered (except the tomato slices) in a second huge layer of cheese, Italian spices and a light dusting of paprika.

You can't fold it. You can pick it up, if you want, but its easier with a fork.

[drops mike]

Typo Negative
06-09-2016, 08:13 PM
Backs away slowly from Gatopescado.....

Biggirl
06-09-2016, 08:40 PM
How is that a pizza Gatopescado? That looks like an KFC Italian Bowl. All it needs is cigarette butts and sadness.*




*As per Jim Gaffigan.

Tim R. Mortiss
06-09-2016, 08:53 PM
A friend of mine from Brooklyn said that all NYC food is designed to be eaten with one hand while you are running for a subway, or from the cops.

Wesley Clark
06-09-2016, 08:59 PM
I always thought NYC pizza were those giant 18" pizzas that were cut into sixths.

Costcos food court has some great new york style pizza.

Ukulele Ike
06-09-2016, 09:11 PM
I doubt that I've ever had proper New York style pizza (most of the places I've gotten pizza from haven't even claimed to be NY style)
Growing up in Cleveland, I consumed pizza maybe four or five times before moving away to New Haven at age 17 for college. There, in the Holy City of Sally's Apizz, Pepe's, Naples, Yorkside, and Broadway Pizza, the scales fell from my eyes. Lived in Manhattan and Brooklyn since, happily eating pizza.

If I have to pay a visit to Cleveland now, I stick with fried pierogi or a kielbasa sandwich. I don't know what's up with the Italian-Americans there -- and I grew up with LOTS of them, who made their own excellent wine and cooked many other great Ital-Amer dishes -- but they never seemed to master the pizza pie.

Ukulele Ike
06-09-2016, 09:13 PM
I always thought NYC pizza were those giant 18" pizzas that were cut into sixths.
We cut them into eighths. Although sometimes I have them cut it into six if I don't think I can eat eight.

(Snare drum/cymbal)

zombywoof
06-09-2016, 10:41 PM
How it's done with style (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRHY27aFpLA)

cochrane
06-09-2016, 10:42 PM
I worked with a guy from New York who would take two slices of pizza and put them together with the crusts on the outside and the tops against each other and he would eat them like a sandwich holding on to the crusts.

dropzone
06-09-2016, 10:57 PM
Indeed. And even Chicago style deep dish pizza crusts aren't particularly bready. It's not like focaccia or something like that. Maybe 1/2" thick, maybe less.Half? Three-eighths, max. One quarter, maybe. The crust is short, culinary speaking, but the orange pools of grease come from the sausage. Pronounced "sahss-ich."
You and Donald Trump. :rolleyes:Them's fightin' words! Or would be, if they weren't true.

Siam Sam
06-09-2016, 10:58 PM
We visited NYC four years ago. Arrived in the afternoon jet-lagged, me to some extent but the wife especially so. She needed sleep badly and was almost comatose. Our hotel was on Broadway on the Upper West Side, and instead of dragging her out to go eat somewhere for dinner, I roamed around the block to see what I could find. On the corner was a nice deli, where I ordered a large pizza, not realizing quite how large large was. Fuck me! That thing was gigantic! Took it back and we ended up munching on it for two or three days. Luckily, we had a refrigerator and a microwave in the room. Nice and thick. About the best pizza we've ever had, and we've had lots. I don't recall it being crunchy though.

Dewey Finn
06-09-2016, 11:16 PM
Growing up in Cleveland, I consumed pizza maybe four or five times before moving away to New Haven at age 17 for college. There, in the Holy City of Sally's Apizz, Pepe's, Naples, Yorkside, and Broadway Pizza, the scales fell from my eyes. Lived in Manhattan and Brooklyn since, happily eating pizza.
The usual question in New Haven is whether you prefer the pizza from Sally's Apizza or from Frank Pepe Pizzeria Napoletana. The correct answer is in fact Modern Apizza (formerly called State Street Apizza).

pulykamell
06-10-2016, 12:12 AM
Half? Three-eighths, max. .

I wanted to hedge a little bit. Originally, I had written 1/4 inch, but I didn't want to risk overestimating its thinness, so I figured 1/2" (which still isn't terribly thick) would be safe. Some people just seem to think deep dish has a pan-pizza like dough. It typically does not (I'm hedging again, as there may be some off-kilter styles that are thicker than your usual Malnati's or Uno's) I wouldn't call it a "short" dough, though. It's usually got a reasonable amount of oil (corn oil, quite often) in it (up to about 20% of the weight of the flour), but a short dough like a pie crust is more like 80% fat to flour. Plus doughs with yeast (like deep dish pizza dough), are generally not referred to as short doughs, either. It's not like a pie crust dough. I mean, I could vaguely see some similarities, but Chicago deep dish dough is more a bread dough than a short dough.

Voyager
06-10-2016, 01:23 AM
I'm from New York, and while I love NY pizza, pizza is the only food item where I am a traitor. Papa Del's pizza in Champaign Illinois (at least 20 years or so or more) which is deep dish is the best in the universe. So good that someone from work who went to the U of I also managed to bring back 6 or 8 pizzas in dry ice for former Champaign residents.

Tim R. Mortiss
06-10-2016, 01:46 AM
I'm from New York, and while I love NY pizza, pizza is the only food item where I am a traitor. Papa Del's pizza in Champaign Illinois (at least 20 years or so or more) which is deep dish is the best in the universe. So good that someone from work who went to the U of I also managed to bring back 6 or 8 pizzas in dry ice for former Champaign residents.

I went to U of I in the late 70s and LIVED on Papa Del's. Back in the day, it was indeed the ultimate deep dish pizza in the universe. Even now, living in Chicago, we reminisce about those great P. Del's pizzas, and sometimes have them shipped up here for special occasions.

terentii
06-10-2016, 04:55 AM
I don't know what's up with the Italian-Americans there -- and I grew up with LOTS of them, who made their own excellent wine and cooked many other great Ital-Amer dishes -- but they never seemed to master the pizza pie.

A lot of Italians once looked down on pizza because it was a southern (peasant) dish.

Ukulele Ike
06-10-2016, 08:14 AM
A lot of Italians once looked down on pizza because it was a southern (peasant) dish.
Most of the immigrants in the big Italian migration of the 1880s-1920s were from Sicily or Calabria. The Doges of Venice liked it just fine where they were and saw no reason to move to Cleveland.

Ike Witt
06-10-2016, 09:26 AM
There was a fantastic NY pizza place on Trinity Mills. I am pretty sure it is now closed or moved though and I can't remember the name.

They were rude when they answered the phone but made a cheese pizza that was perfection.

Fear Itself
06-10-2016, 09:49 AM
But yeah, you keep it on the paper plate and fold it in half to eat with one handThe paper plate is where it gets that trademark chewiness.

enipla
06-10-2016, 09:57 AM
Indeed. And even Chicago style deep dish pizza crusts aren't particularly bready. It's not like focaccia or something like that. Maybe 1/2" thick, maybe less. Italian style pan pizzas have thicker crusts. It's the pile of cheese, tomatoes, and toppings that make it thick.Yup. I give you the original- Pizzeria Uno (http://unos.com/menus/deepdish.php) ...

Aw shit. Looks like the 'Original' on Ohio and Wabash in Chicago is gone.

But THAT'S Chicago deep dish.

pulykamell
06-10-2016, 10:03 AM
Yup. I give you the original- Pizzeria Uno (http://unos.com/menus/deepdish.php) ...

Aw shit. Looks like the 'Original' on Ohio and Wabash in Chicago is gone.

But THAT'S Chicago deep dish.

No, the original is still there, with Due nearby. Here's the website (http://pizzeria.unotogo.com/zgrid/themes/7/portal/index.jsp). What you linked to is Uno Pizzeria and Grill (formerly, Uno Chicago Grill), which is some franchised, bastardized version of Pizzeria Uno. There is only one actual Pizzeria Uno.

yellowjacketcoder
06-10-2016, 10:15 AM
I remember when my now-wife and I visited NYC, we felt that as long as we were there, we ought to try some of this famous NYC pizza. So we found a local pizzeria, got a slice each, and settled down to eat it.

Neither of us could figure out what the big deal was. I mean, it was lunch, but I didn't have any desire to try it again.

Now, and NYC deli - holy moly, that's where it's at.

enipla
06-10-2016, 12:25 PM
No, the original is still there, with Due nearby. Here's the website (http://pizzeria.unotogo.com/zgrid/themes/7/portal/index.jsp). What you linked to is Uno Pizzeria and Grill (formerly, Uno Chicago Grill), which is some franchised, bastardized version of Pizzeria Uno. There is only one actual Pizzeria Uno.THANK YOU!

You don't know if Boobies sandwich shop is still around do you? It was in DesPlaines if I recall. Best Italian beef subs. (I'm not going to google it on a work computer :) )

pulykamell
06-10-2016, 01:12 PM
THANK YOU!

You don't know if Boobies sandwich shop is still around do you? It was in DesPlaines if I recall. Best Italian beef subs. (I'm not going to google it on a work computer :) )

Never heard of it, and the only reference I could find to a Boobie's sandwich shop is in Tinley Park, IL (a southwest suburb of Chicago. Des Plaines is Northwest.)

enipla
06-10-2016, 01:40 PM
Never heard of it, and the only reference I could find to a Boobie's sandwich shop is in Tinley Park, IL (a southwest suburb of Chicago. Des Plaines is Northwest.)Thanks for checking. It's been about 45 years. Perhaps they moved. I'll check it out when I am on my own computer.

John Bredin
06-10-2016, 02:21 PM
THANK YOU!

You don't know if Boobies sandwich shop is still around do you? It was in DesPlaines if I recall. Best Italian beef subs. (I'm not going to google it on a work computer :) )I live in Des Plaines. Booby's* is not in Des Plaines but Niles, on Milwaukee Ave. between Oakton and Dempster. Way closer to Des Plaines than Tinley Park would be. :)

*Singular, not plural. :)

DrDeth
06-10-2016, 02:52 PM
I have never been to NYC.

I have a friend who is from there, and we have shared several 'NYC style' pizzas in the San Fernando Valley. Most were not what he calls NYC.

One that he did call 'really close to NYC' was quite good. :)



I see that a lot, and it can be bogus. Look, you can have Philly Cheesesteaks outside Philly and NY style pizza and bagels outside NYC.

and yes, they can taste the same.

In fact on Hollywood blvd there's a great authentic NY style pizza place- greasy and cheap.

Bagels- NY style- you can even get them in SF- altho certainly the SF style and the Montreal style are much more common. No, it's not the water, it's the boiling.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/05/21/405190434/chew-on-this-the-science-of-great-nyc-bagels-its-not-the-water

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/11/new-york-water-bagels-so-good-nom_n_7242452.html

enipla
06-10-2016, 02:56 PM
Thanks I misremembered the location (I was 9 when we left Chicago), amazing they are still there.

Kimballkid
06-10-2016, 04:24 PM
I remember when my now-wife and I visited NYC, we felt that as long as we were there, we ought to try some of this famous NYC pizza. So we found a local pizzeria, got a slice each, and settled down to eat it.

Neither of us could figure out what the big deal was. I mean, it was lunch, but I didn't have any desire to try it again.

I agree with this. I threw about half of the slice I had away because it was really nothing special and burnt, probably from that reheating thing they do, to boot

Voyager
06-10-2016, 05:39 PM
No, the original is still there, with Due nearby. Here's the website (http://pizzeria.unotogo.com/zgrid/themes/7/portal/index.jsp). What you linked to is Uno Pizzeria and Grill (formerly, Uno Chicago Grill), which is some franchised, bastardized version of Pizzeria Uno. There is only one actual Pizzeria Uno.

I've been to the original (before they went national), and Papa Del's is still better.

Ukulele Ike
06-10-2016, 08:32 PM
I agree with this. I threw about half of the slice I had away because it was really nothing special and burnt, probably from that reheating thing they do, to boot
See, the New York pizza guys see a tourist come into the place, and they pick out a nothing special piece and burn it for you. They save the really good slices for the locals.

Southern Yankee
06-10-2016, 08:38 PM
The dirty truth New Yorkers don't want to admit is that the best pizza is across the river in NJ. Your slice should be a decent size, with a crust that isn't cracker thin, or deep dish thick. You should be able to fold it in half and eat it properly. one or two drops of oil (more if you order pepperoni) should drip out the back end. That's why you hold it away from your body when eating it. There are some great pizza parlors in NYC, but far too many mediocre ones.

pulykamell
06-10-2016, 09:39 PM
I've been to the original (before they went national), and Papa Del's is still better.

That does not surprise me. Uno's is a good yardstick, and they absolutely have a solid deep dish (anyone who says it's just for tourists doesn't know what they're talking about.) But there are better deep dishes around. Of the big names, I prefer Malnati's.

Plus does Papa Del's do a standard Chicago deep dish? I remember a pan thick crust type of pizza and a stuffed (which I guess is an offshoot of deep dish, but not what Uno's and Malnati's do.)

panache45
06-10-2016, 10:54 PM
I remember when my now-wife and I visited NYC, we felt that as long as we were there, we ought to try some of this famous NYC pizza. So we found a local pizzeria, got a slice each, and settled down to eat it.

Neither of us could figure out what the big deal was. I mean, it was lunch, but I didn't have any desire to try it again.

Now, and NYC deli - holy moly, that's where it's at.

You should understand that, just like in every other city, there's a wide variety of pizza in NYC. Not every pizza is authentic NYC pizza . . . even if it's called "famous" or "original." Lots of it is crap.

Same with cheescake. Lots of places will sell you "New York Cheescake," but there's only one Junior's.

Ukulele Ike
06-10-2016, 11:46 PM
Preach it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior%27s

Tim R. Mortiss
06-11-2016, 02:14 AM
No, the original is still there, with Due nearby. Here's the website (http://pizzeria.unotogo.com/zgrid/themes/7/portal/index.jsp). What you linked to is Uno Pizzeria and Grill (formerly, Uno Chicago Grill), which is some franchised, bastardized version of Pizzeria Uno. There is only one actual Pizzeria Uno.

Nothing grinds my gears like the franchised "Uno Chicago Pizza" (or whatever they call it this week) that is franchised around the country. It is NOTHING like the authentic Uno's (and Due's) pizza in Chicago. If you must eat at one, please don't consider yourself to have sampled authentic Uno's pizza. You haven't.

JRDelirious
06-11-2016, 11:08 AM
You should understand that, just like in every other city, there's a wide variety of pizza in NYC. Not every pizza is authentic NYC pizza . . . even if it's called "famous" or "original." Lots of it is crap.

Same with cheescake. Lots of places will sell you "New York Cheescake," but there's only one Junior's.

Right. The sources of the good reputation are necessarily a finite number of venues over a time period, and even before you get to outright "dumbed-down knock-off for the tourists", in a market the size of NYC (or Chicago for that matter) the mere statistical variance in the product will be way wide.

Peter Morris
06-11-2016, 12:21 PM
You pick a slice up, and it just goes limp right there in your hand (shut up).

You fold the slice to eat it.

Mad Magazine's guide to eating pizza. (http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/imce/MAD-Magazine-Dave-Berg-Pizza-2_528b83af59e7a3.02909380.jpg)

mack
06-11-2016, 06:51 PM
You should understand that, just like in every other city, there's a wide variety of pizza in NYC. Not every pizza is authentic NYC pizza . . . even if it's called "famous" or "original." Lots of it is crap.

Same with cheescake. Lots of places will sell you "New York Cheescake," but there's only one Junior's.

Even at my favorite places I can get a slice to die for and then the next time it's rather mediocre. Pizza is a fickle muse.

And I agree NJ has some great pizza. There's a bazillion excellent little mom-n-pop places tucked away in all those those shopping centers.

Voyager
06-11-2016, 09:26 PM
That does not surprise me. Uno's is a good yardstick, and they absolutely have a solid deep dish (anyone who says it's just for tourists doesn't know what they're talking about.) But there are better deep dishes around. Of the big names, I prefer Malnati's.

Plus does Papa Del's do a standard Chicago deep dish? I remember a pan thick crust type of pizza and a stuffed (which I guess is an offshoot of deep dish, but not what Uno's and Malnati's do.)

I was there before stuffed pizza was invented. The official name was Papa Del's Pizza in a Pan. I didn't think of Uno's as much different when I went.
When I visited once our friends got pizza from I think Giordano's (it's been a long time) which was better than Uno's, even delivered. But since I've never lived in Chicago I'm not an expert on what the best Chicago pizza is.

Voyager
06-11-2016, 09:29 PM
Nothing grinds my gears like the franchised "Uno Chicago Pizza" (or whatever they call it this week) that is franchised around the country. It is NOTHING like the authentic Uno's (and Due's) pizza in Chicago. If you must eat at one, please don't consider yourself to have sampled authentic Uno's pizza. You haven't.

I went to the Uno's in Ft. Worth about a year ago because it was open. Sad. Far worse than the ones around me, now long closed.

Jackmannii
06-12-2016, 12:21 AM
If you pick up a box of pizza and the oil doesn't leak through it and onto your car seat during the short drive home, it's not N.Y. pizza.

pulykamell
06-12-2016, 02:02 AM
I was there before stuffed pizza was invented. The official name was Papa Del's Pizza in a Pan. I didn't think of Uno's as much different when I went.
When I visited once our friends got pizza from I think Giordano's (it's been a long time) which was better than Uno's, even delivered. But since I've never lived in Chicago I'm not an expert on what the best Chicago pizza is.

Actually, I'm misremembering. Papa Del's does call it "pan pizza" on their menu, but it is pretty much a standard Chicago-style deep dish.

DonLogan
06-12-2016, 08:03 AM
There are some well-known places in the NY/NJ environs that do a crispier crust, but a standard version has a soft crust that flops, this is why you fold. The floppiness factor is also a function of the diameter of the pie the slice came from.

Chronos
06-12-2016, 08:27 AM
So, just what is it that makes a pizza "New York style"? All I'm seeing so far in this thread is "It has a thin crust, unless it's the other kind of New York style, in which case it has a thick crust". Between them, that pretty much encompasses all pizza, doesn't it?

Oh, and it's also greasy, but again, that's rather universal.

mack
06-12-2016, 10:10 AM
So, just what is it that makes a pizza "New York style"? All I'm seeing so far in this thread is "It has a thin crust, unless it's the other kind of New York style, in which case it has a thick crust". Between them, that pretty much encompasses all pizza, doesn't it?

Oh, and it's also greasy, but again, that's rather universal.

This is a pretty good description:

The most common and now quintessential form of NY pizza has thus become the type that is cooked in gas ovens rather than the Neapolitan-American type cooked with coal. NY style pizza is sold either as whole pies or by the "slice"
[...]
The NY style pizzas tend to have far more cheese than Neapolitan-American coal oven pies. The cheese typically covers the entire pie, with sauce only poking out along the circumference. A low moisture mozzarella is used rather than fresh mozzarella, which is not well suited to the lower temperature and longer cooking times of the gas ovens. Gas fired pizza lacks the sooty exterior that is a hallmark of coal fired ovens, but it still has plenty of crunch and snap to go along with the pliancy and springiness of the dough.

Eater (http://ny.eater.com/2015/8/7/9050099/new-york-pizza-styles-best-slice)

NY Style (http://www.roccosdelilv.com/images/menupizza.jpg)
Neopolitan (https://www.google.com/search?q=neapolitan+pizza&safe=strict&biw=1280&bih=603&tbm=isch&imgil=zQCVQ6yEDmD7pM%253A%253Bzp2XcdlAJkmn5M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.falsonueve.com%25252Fe n%25252Fauthentic-neapolitan-pizza%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=zQCVQ6yEDmD7pM%253A%252Czp2XcdlAJkmn5M%252C_&usg=__MjuFOsbooALA4cZD7ymqjMVu-bc%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjT6qTU06LNAhWEHh4KHYNnChwQyjcIwgE&ei=kGtdV9PiDIS9eIPPqeAB#imgrc=6QjbiYIDCLC5MM%3A)

Chicago-Style/Deep Dish (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Pizzeria_Uno_Chicago-style_deep-dish_pizza.jpg)
Sicilian (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sicilian+pizza&view=detailv2&&id=0E34EAA17491BE3EAEC7A72CEC8311892E276DFE&selectedIndex=16&ccid=gtQJC%2fDj&simid=607992307277825883&thid=OIP.M82d4090bf0e3e32539e70ddf718b04a2o0&ajaxhist=0)

Ellis Aponte Jr.
06-12-2016, 11:21 AM
The above post is interesting, but most NYC neighborhood pizza joints offer a fresh mozzarella option which tastes fine to me (is usually my choice). Plus I assumed that most pizzerias across the country use gas-fired ovens… not true?

Musicat
06-12-2016, 11:43 AM
Which is a practical application of Gauss's Theorema Egregium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorema_Egregium):
An application of the Theorema Egregium is seen in a common pizza-eating strategy: A slice of pizza can be seen as a surface with constant Gaussian curvature 0. Gently bending a slice must then roughly maintain this curvature (assuming the bend is roughly a local isometry). If one bends a slice horizontally along a radius, non-zero principal curvatures are created along the bend, dictating that the other principal curvature at these points must be zero. This creates rigidity in the direction perpendicular to the fold, an attribute desirable when eating pizza, as it holds its shape long enough to be consumed without a mess.Now you made me lose my appetite.

DMGuy
06-12-2016, 11:58 AM
THANK YOU!

You don't know if Boobies sandwich shop is still around do you? It was in DesPlaines if I recall. Best Italian beef subs. (I'm not going to google it on a work computer :) )

My wife and I ate there when we were in Chicago for Memorial Day weekend....very solid Italian Beef sandwich, but not the best around.

mack
06-12-2016, 01:15 PM
The above post is interesting, but most NYC neighborhood pizza joints offer a fresh mozzarella option which tastes fine to me (is usually my choice). Plus I assumed that most pizzerias across the country use gas-fired ovens… not true?

I think that's a safe assumption. I wouldn't say putting fresh mozzarella and basil on a regular pizza joint crust makes it neopolitan though (although they may call it that and it makes it neopolitan-ish). Neopolitan pizza is smaller, baked more quickly in a much hotter oven so the whole thing's different. I may be mistaken but the dough might be a bit different too.

Chronos
06-12-2016, 06:40 PM
Of the posted images there, the New York style just looks like ordinary standard pizza, as does the Sicilian, and I've seen very few places anywhere in the country that serve anything that resembles that Neapolitan pizza. If I go to Little Caesar's, Domino's, or Pizza Hut, I'll get something that more closely resembles the picture labeled "New York" than any of the others. Surely, there's a difference between Pizza Hut and a true New York pizza?

Colibri
06-12-2016, 06:55 PM
Of the posted images there, the New York style just looks like ordinary standard pizza, as does the Sicilian, and I've seen very few places anywhere in the country that serve anything that resembles that Neapolitan pizza. If I go to Little Caesar's, Domino's, or Pizza Hut, I'll get something that more closely resembles the picture labeled "New York" than any of the others. Surely, there's a difference between Pizza Hut and a true New York pizza?

In my experience, Pizza Hut pizza has thinner, crisper crust than most neighborhood pizzerias in New York. Sicilian pizza, as sold in New York, is maybe twice as thick as regular pizza, and cut square.

When I was a kid in the 1960s I remember my neighborhood pizzerias serving pizza that looked more like the Neopolitan style, with bits of mozzarella scattered throughout the tomato sauce rather than being a solid layer. Most of the Italians in my neighborhood were from Naples. I think pizza may have become more standardized over time.

Ukulele Ike
06-12-2016, 08:37 PM
I think that's a safe assumption. I wouldn't say putting fresh mozzarella and basil on a regular pizza joint crust makes it neopolitan though (although they may call it that and it makes it neopolitan-ish).
Fresh basil and mozzarella over tomato sauce on a thin crust is pizza Margherita.

http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016231-pizza-margherita

Ellis Aponte Jr.
06-12-2016, 10:43 PM
Fresh basil and mozzarella over tomato sauce on a thin crust is pizza Margherita.

http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016231-pizza-margherita

Which describes a slice you can get at almost any corner pizza joint in NYC, so I'm confused by why the "Neapolitan" style is not the NYC style and what makes the NYC style different from standard American-style pizza.

pulykamell
06-12-2016, 10:51 PM
Which describes a slice you can get at almost any corner pizza joint in NYC, so I'm confused by why the "Neapolitan" style is not the NYC style and what makes the NYC style different from standard American-style pizza.

You can read about it here (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/07/the-pizza-lab-three-doughs-to-know.html). There are NY pizza places that a true Neapolitan-style pizza. But most NY pizza, as I've had it, is not like Neapolitan, which is cooked in 1-2 minutes and produces a charred, blistered crust. Neapolitan pizza is also generally soupier in the center and floppier than a NY pizza, so much so that you generally need a knife and fork to eat it.

Dorjän
06-13-2016, 03:13 PM
Growing up in Cleveland, I consumed pizza maybe four or five times before moving away to New Haven at age 17 for college. There, in the Holy City of Sally's Apizz, Pepe's, Naples, Yorkside, and Broadway Pizza, the scales fell from my eyes. Lived in Manhattan and Brooklyn since, happily eating pizza.

If I have to pay a visit to Cleveland now, I stick with fried pierogi or a kielbasa sandwich. I don't know what's up with the Italian-Americans there -- and I grew up with LOTS of them, who made their own excellent wine and cooked many other great Ital-Amer dishes -- but they never seemed to master the pizza pie.

You'll be fine. Some of the best Neapolitan Style Pizza anywhere can be found in the Cleve these days. There's even a spot in Mentor that has damn Good NY Style. The only thing it can't quite match is the NYC water in the dough.

http://ruhlman.com/2016/01/a-near-perfect-pizza/

DrDeth
06-13-2016, 04:08 PM
Of the posted images there, the New York style just looks like ordinary standard pizza, as does the Sicilian, and I've seen very few places anywhere in the country that serve anything that resembles that Neapolitan pizza. If I go to Little Caesar's, Domino's, or Pizza Hut, I'll get something that more closely resembles the picture labeled "New York" than any of the others. Surely, there's a difference between Pizza Hut and a true New York pizza?

It has a thin, not crispy crust and thin cheese and topping. It's nearly 2D.