Amusement Park Question

[lucwarm]

This question was inspired by this thread ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=79514 ) in which a complaint was voiced about people who use a wheelchair to pretend to be handicapped at amusement parks to get to the front of the line.

My question is, what is the rationale for this "head-of-the-line" policy? Is it that it is difficult for folks in wheelchairs to wait in line? Why is this? Is it that the "corrals" that they use in amusement parks are not wheelchair-navigable? Why not just make the line structure wheelchair friendly, by widening paths and installing ramps?

(By the way, I'm not opposed to giving handicapped people special privileges. Obviously they lead difficult lives and the few perks they enjoy come nowhere near to compensating for the many obstacles they face. I am just asking what the reason is for a particular policy.)

[Sauron]

I believe it falls under the "special priveleges" category. It's a small way of increasing the fun a person with a handicap can have at an amusement park.

In the latest edition of the "Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World," a person who is married to a person with a handicap discusses this very phenomenon. Her husband requires a wheelchair, and she occasionally hears someone grumble about her family getting to move to the front of the line. She points out that her family spends a fair portion of their time waiting -- in doctor's offices, in surgical waiting rooms, and various other places. She said it was nice that when they finally do get to go on a vacation (which is rare), they don't have to wait as much.

I've got absolutely no problem with the policy of letting people with handicaps go to the front of the line ... as long as they really have a handicap. It's a small gesture, as I said, but a worthy one.

[MsRobyn]

People with disabilities often have other problems besides mobility. For example, my mother, who has multiple sclerosis, can't tolerate heat very well (it's a symptom of MS), so when she can go to the front of the line, she appreciates it.

I think it's one of those small courtesies that are extended just to be nice.

Robin

[Acco40]

I was not aware of this policy, but it sounds like a nice gesture...!

That's it, hooray, 100th post!

"I'd like to thank a few people..."

[RufusLeaking]

My daughter tells me that when she was in college she and her friends would specically find people in wheelchairs to take with them when they went to Disneyland so they could go to the head of the line. I can't make up my mind whether this is ethical or not. Considering that the person in the wheelchair got a free trip to Disneyland.

[kunilou]

Mrs. Kunilou was still recovering from foot surgery when we took our vacation to Disney World, so we got her a wheelchair. The experience totally sucked for her -- little kids banging into her, attendants talking right over her head as if she were deaf or brain dead ("Can she get into the car by herself?" "YES I CAN!! I can hear, too!") and all manor of inconveniences and indignanties. The second day she decided to rely on her trusty cane. Getting a jump on some of the lines was NOT worth it.

[BobT]

Most amusement park lines have stairs in some place, so it's easier just to skip that part. There aren't that many wheelchair users.

At Disneyland's Haunted Mansion, if you're a wheelchair rider, they stop the ride to let you on (the chairs you ride in are constantly moving) and then at the end you get to ride all the way back to the beginning of the ride and they stop it again to let you off.

That's when you hear announcements about "ghosts in the machine" or something like that.

[KeithB]

In most new rides, and new parks, (like California Adventure), you do not get to go to the head of the line. The queues are designed to accept wheelchairs.

Actually, sometimes getting to the head of the line causes you to miss part of the show, as in Star Tours.

[screech-owl]

For the most part, most ride queue lines cannot accomodate a wheelchair - tight turns, narrow lanes, and stairs. This is usually why wheelchair guests and other handicapped individuals are sent to a special entrance (usually the exit). Most new ride have queue lines designed with fewer barriers so the entire party can stay together through most if not all of the pre-show.

Most of the local theme parks have (theoretically) a rule that if there are more than 6 (IIRC) in the party, the wheelchair guests and one other person may go to the special access area, and the rest of the party goes through through the regular queue line. I say theoretically, since a torqued-off guest will not hestitate to write-up a cast member/employee for 'having a bad attitude' if they will not let the whole combined party of the Stinkersnots and the Boogerettes (twelve in all) through all together just because little Dipwick is in a wheelchair (seen this).

Also, just because you are in a wheelchair does not mean you will get onto the ride any faster. I believe it is a state law (gonna check this at some time), but at the local theme parks, only 3 handicapped parties are allowed on a ride at any one time, for safety reasons, in case of emergency evacuation. The backdoor queue line wait can stretch for as long as 60 minutes (been there on this one - (former)Roommate had knee surgery and it took us 60 minutes to get onto Splash Mountain, and this was with no mechanical breakdown - the line was that long).

Two exceptions I must note:

I have seen written passes for backdoor access for persons who cannot tolerate standing in line - I do not know the exact medical criteria, but if I overheard the guest services attendant correctly, it was for a autistic child.

Other exception I see a lot at the local theme parks is for the "Give Kids the World" (http://www.gktw.org/) guests. These are kids suffering from life-threatening illnesses whose last wish is to visit Mickey and Shamu. Cast members/employees jump and immediately backdoor these kids (subject to the same 3 handicapped guests limit as above). Again, as with adults, as their situation is not always readily apparent, they wear a special large button with the GKTW logo and their name. Damn good cause, BTW.

Busch Gardens Tampa Bay has a policy that handicapped guests are allowed to ride twice in a row. Any more than that, and they must exit the ride and come back later (usually about an hour or so).

[saga time]

Then again, there was the time (former)Roommate and I got stuck on the Congo River Rapids. The normal queue line splits into two docks, one of which is accessible in and out only by stairs. He's in a wheelchair after knee surgery (healed but still using a cane, can't do stairs, and no way in heck he's walking the park so we have a wheelchair) so they load us at the handicapped side and put up the orange flag (signifying this raft has a 'special needs' party) and we get to ride twice. Cool, no problem.

Once around great, stay in the boat, ride again.

Approaching the docks, the water jets push us to dock two, the non-handicapped one. Oops.

Ride around again. By now, we are drenched. Approach the exit and the water jets go on. Guess which side we're on?

One more time around. We are completely drenched. Yup, they'll get us off the ride this time.

No such luck.

Sixth time around. We approach the exit. (former)Roommate grabs the orange flag (the kids you put on a kid's bike) and is waving it to get the operator's attention. Water jets go on. Success.

We went back later that afternoon for another spin (hey, it's a fun ride), and the crew was very, very nice to us and made sure we were on the correct ramp after the second time.

Darn.

[/saga time]

[The Hamster King]

Originally posted by RufusLeaking
My daughter tells me that when she was in college she and her friends would specically find people in wheelchairs to take with them when they went to Disneyland so they could go to the head of the line. I can't make up my mind whether this is ethical or not. Considering that the person in the wheelchair got a free trip to Disneyland.


I would say that it's unethical. Abuse of a courtesy is likely to lead to its being withdrawn, hurting those who the courtesy was originally intended to help. Letting handicapped guests cut in line is a way of balancing the other difficulties they are likely to experience in navigating a public place. Extending this small courtesy may mean that a trip to the amusement park becomes a workable experience for someone who otherwise might have avoided it as too logistically complicated.

(Note this is not to say that everyone in a wheelchair is too handicapped to get around easily in public. The "have a wheelchair, cut in line" rule includes lots of folks who are legitimately in a wheelchair but who are otherwise able-bodied enough to wait with the rest of us. Its main advantage is that it's a simple rule to implement.)

The park extends this courtesy to include the family and friends of the handicapped guest on the theory that a large part of the fun of being at the park and riding on rides is hanging out with the people you came with. However, if people started to abuse this system -- say for example a guy in a wheelchair started hanging out at the entrance to the rollercoaster soliciting money from people in exchange for getting them in the front of the line -- it would be perfectly appropriate for the park to withdraw the courtesy on the theory that letting people buy their way to the front of the line is unfair to the other patrons.

What you've described your daughter doing is a lesser version of my example above. The fact that a handicapped person gets a free trip to Disneyland is immaterial. In fact the free trip part means that the handicapped person is behaving unethically as well. He is accepting a financial reward (free admission) in exchange for helping your daughter and her friends take advantage of a program intended to help others.

[BobT]

Are you sure that someone was allowed into Disneyland free because they were in a wheelchair. I didn't see any mention of such a policy on its website. AFAIK, the only people who get in free are children under 3.

I suppose Disneyland may give away free trips to certain people, but I imagine that there has to be a set of extenuating circumstances, like a terminal illness or perhaps a visit by a large group.

I imagine that any adult in a wheelchair is allowed to go into Disneyland as long as they are willing to shell out the $43 admission price.

[Papermache Prince]

I interpreted the remark about a free trip to Disneyland for someone in a wheelchair to mean, not that Disneyland lets the guest in free, but that the college student, in exchange for the ability to cut to the head of the line, pays for the ticket of the person in the wheelchair.

[screech-owl]

Terminally ill children usually get a free trip to Disneyland or Disney World arranged through some other charitable organization - Make-a-Wish Foundation, for example) Disney provides a free ticket (one day, IIRC) arranged through the organization: you can't just march up to the ticket window and annouce, "My child is dying, therefore s/he gets in free."

Universal Studios does offer a discount for guests unable to ride the rides. Again, I am not sure of the criteria (I believe a physician's written attestment must be produced); I am sure security watches these guests so they do not enter the park, drench themselves with the contents of a souvenir bottle from Lourdes, and suddenly "amen" they can walk for the next nine hours.

Miami Seaquarium does admit wheelchair guests for free, since not all of their attractions are barrier-free (the dolphin show at the front of the park involves a two story stair climb - anyone not able to make the climb can watch through the viewing windows on the first floor).

[gwar]

People in wheelchairs are already on a ride 24/7. They should wait like the rest of us.

[Cervaise]

^^^ And people question the benefits of charm school.

[Cartooniverse]

Originally posted by gwar
People in wheelchairs are already on a ride 24/7. They should wait like the rest of us.

I just KNOW I'm gonna have Dopers peeing in my soup over this, but our tactless newbie friend gwar here has struck to the heart of this discussion, IMHO.

Flip the entire dynamics over for a moment. I don't have any friends who are wheelchair bound, but I've met and worked with some folks who are. I don't mean recovering from surgery, etc. I mean, living it 24/7. Quite a lot- NOT ALL, I hasten to add, but quite a lot of those folks tend to get very tired of the babying. People won't talk to them, but will instead address the walking partner beside them. It's a common yet insulting mistake. People used to ask me questions about my kids, LONG after they were old enough to answer, because they're Asian and therefore the nitwit would assume that they didn't know English. :rolleyes:.

Handicapped doesn't mean incapable of all cogent thought. In the case of this thread, it means you can't get around with your own legs, FOR WHATEVER REASON. Instead of taking a cheap shot, gwar, maybe you should look deeper at what you said. Yes, they live that life 24/7 unless they are laying down, or sitting in a stationary chair. While some may resent the special treatment or "babying" inherent in the theme park situations, there must be others who appreciate that for once, the world bends to their need. It's so very rare that that happens with people who live life as adults, with a point of view of a sitting person.

Seems like I'm flip-flopping here? Not really. I bet there are those adults who chose NOT to move to the head of the line, or at least sit near the entrance- in the case of narrow chute-type standing areas, and let their friends/family wait in line. Just like all the other adults.

Part of me loves the idea of it, part of me sees it as way too P.C.
Cartooniverse

[gtzaskar00]

I have several handicapped friends, and we occassionaly go to six flags. I know they feel as if they would much rather have lines they can get through than to go to the front of the line. They do not want to go to the front, they just want to be able to do what everyone else does. They certainly resent people who say things like "going to the front is a reward for the tough life they lead". It is an insult to even say things like this. Most of my friends never knew a life with the ability to walk. They feel that accepting a "reward" for their troubles is saying that their lives are inferior to the rest of ours. They just want a time where, as I am sure many minorities agree, people do not think of them as something different but as regular people.

[elfkin477]

You know, I don't think I've been to an amusement park that has wheel-chair acessable rides. Until this thread I had no idea there were rides that were...blame my ignorance on never having been to disney world or any other major theme park.

[Kaitlyn]

First, let me say that I have no problem with people who are in wheelchairs and one other to assist them going to the front of the line. No one is forcing the theme parks to do this; they do it as a courtesy to people who may have difficulty getting to the rides through normal channels, and I applaud the theme parks for doing this. The extra time, if any, that people in line have to wait is going to be negligible.

However, there is a potential solution that would allow people who cannot go through lines to skip the lines without cutting in front of others. Last year (or the previous year? I forget exactly) a friend of mine was married, and she and her husband spent their honeymoond at Disneyland. They had one of those superdeluxe packages--Disneyland hotel suite, early admission, character breakfast, etc. One of the perks was two "no wait" passes for the rides. This did not allow them to immediately skip to the front of the line. Let's assume that the wait in line was forty minutes. They gave the pass to an official, who notifies them how long the wait for the ride is. They go have a drink, use the restroom, play videogames, feed the ducks, whatever they want for the next 40 minutes, then when they go back, they go to the front of the line, where they would have been had they waited in line in the first place.

Such a system would be a good compromise for those who can't wait in line. However, I think going to the front is a nice courtesy, and it's the policy I would choose if I were in charge.

[gazpacho]

Number Six

I think Disney (it may be some other park) is starting to do what you suggest for everybody not just people who cannot wait in line for what every reason. The popular rides you can get a ticket that will allow you to stand in a short line if you return at some pre determined time in the future. Sort of like reservations at a restaurant.

[vandal]

Disneyland does in fact do this. They call it "fast pass."

There is a separate fast pass line (which is significantly shorter than the regular line), and at the entrance to this fast pass line, there is a machine that dispenses these fast pass tickets (in exchange for your admission ticket).

Above the machine, there is a sign with the times posted of when you can return. The times are usually an hour window (i.e. 1:30 to 2:30). And these fast passes are available to any guest (handicapped or not).

[lucwarm]

So, I guess the answer to my question is that it's a combination of the facts that (1) it's difficult for a wheelchair to navigate the "mazes," and (2) a freebie for people who face tremendous disadvantages in life.

[Waneman]

I believe it is fair to let those with disabilities pass.

I also know what it's like to get jeers from people waiting hours while I walk to the front of the line. Universal Studios California supplied my family and I with V.I.P. passes. Among other perks like a personal tour of the back lot, they get you into the "Special Access" entrance of any ride or attraction. Now don't get me wrong, you were these badges around your neck and the employees lead you to these entrances.

I found out later that, despite being a screenwriter I'm not a Very Important Person and that any Joe can buy these passes for about twice the normal admission cost. This, I would thank would be money well spent considering the lines I saw in front of Terminator 3D. (By the way, we went to this attraction several times in a row not because I wanted to or my kids but because my 50+ mother wanted to. She's a real go get'er!)
-Waneman

[screech-owl]

Okay, a bit of an update:

(former)Roommate and I went to Disney this past weekend, going to Epcot and Magic Kingdom. (f)R uses a wheelchair because he has almost no cartilege in his knees and walking long distances is painful for him (not to mention we were at the Jungle Cruise once and his knees gave out, taking out a family of six in his fall). He can walk with a cane. A run-down of the wait process:

[side note - Disney has now changed the names of their queues - FastPass [FP] is now the 'main' line and the regular line is now "Standby Line" [SL]. TestTrack also has a line for lone riders.]

EPCOT -
TestTrack - SL wait was one hour; FP return in 1.5 hours. Greeter wrote out pass for us to return in one hour. {Returned just as a tour group of 150 returned with their FP} - Entered ride through FP line, additional 15 minute wait, since they only allow three w/c guests on ride at one time in case of evacuation.

Honey I Shrunk the Audience - No FP. Used side door next to regular line - this leads to a raised platform so guests in w/c can usually see the preshow movie over he other guests - usually, since the jackass in front of us hoisted his kid onto his shoulders and wouldn't move until the cast member told him to take the kid down.

Journey into Your Imagination - No FP. Used regular line until just beore loading platform - split off to side line. Option of w/c guest transferring to regular car or remaining in wheelchair and waiting for special car (roll w/c up ramp into car and swivel chair forward - very nice and convenient. (Ride itself- eh. So-so.)

Magic Kingdom -

Winnie the Pooh - Used SL like other guests (wide queue lines and easy cornering). (FP return time was 2 hours later!)

Snow White Adventures - Waited at exit for ride attendant.

It's a Small World - Used SL outer lane (w/c is passed manually to exit side of the ride). Guests in electric wheelchairs are directed down exit ramp and load from exit side of the ride.

Haunted Mansion - Entered a gate next to SL. Left w/c at exit, sent into 'fireplace room' with guests from FP line, then guests from SL enter 'fireplace room'. Single queue line from there for everyone.

Disney now has a mix of regular queue lines and bypasses for wheelchair guests.

[AWB]

My parents-in-law had a foster son, about 30, with severe birth defects. The physical ones were deformed legs and hands. He could walk around the house, but walking around and waiting in long lines at an amusement park would've been exhausting for him.

At Busch Gardens in Williamsburg, VA, he rode around in a park-supplied wheelchair. When a line was excessively long, we'd politely ask if we could use the handicap bump policy. The staff were very patient and helpful in accomodating his needs, and I'm sorry I never go around to writing a thank-you letter to the management there.

I saw no problems with using this priviledge; there were very few other handicapped people doing this, so the main queue wasn't delayed significantly, and it did allow David to enjoy the park for which he paid full admission price.

[screech-owl]

Originally posted by elfkin477
You know, I don't think I've been to an amusement park that has wheel-chair acessable rides. Until this thread I had no idea there were rides that were...blame my ignorance on never having been to disney world or any other major theme park.

For the most part, most of the rides you will see require the guest to transfer to the ride seat under their own power or with assistance. Several parks and carnival owners do not let their employees offer any more than the minimal amount of assitance, e.g. holding someone's hand to steady them getting in and out of the ride. This is not only for fear of liability for injury to the guest (most people are not trained on how to lift a person properly, and the chances of dropping someone or exacerbating a pre-existing medical condition increase) or the possibility of sexual harassment (purposely or even accidentally holding someone 'the wrong way' can lead to a very uncomfortable situation for both parties), but also to protect the employee against their own injury or harassment.

Most of the travelling carnivals and lots of the stationary parks use pre-fab rides. Amusement Business (http://www.amusementbusiness.com/amusementbusiness/index.jsp) available at the moment, so I can't give any impressive names of the big manufacturers.] Ride design takes a lot into consideration: physics of the ride itself, the physics of the human body (what it can, cannot and should not do), and the general enjoyment of the ride (thrill factor, nausea inducement). Lots of successes, lots of failures, lots of 'back to the drawing board'.

[The big manufacturers have engineers and designers working at this. There are trade shows for park and unit owners and operators, displaying the lastest in rides and ride technology. My old carnival unit used the side yard in winter quarters to set up and display new rides since there was a problem setting them up in the convention hall (driving stakes into the floor for a 90,000 lb. ride was frowned upon). We had fun setting them up, and most of the carnies volunteered to test ride.]

Redesigning a ride to now accomodate a wheelchair takes a whole new set of physics into consideration: new space allotments, entering and exiting the ride, safety considerations for wheelchair brakes that may not completely work (happens a lot with the theme parks, considering the amount of use they get), safety belt redesign for both the occupant and the chair, and generalizing this to accommodate the wide variety of manual wheelchairs available (straight wheel vs angled (racing wheel) wheels, different heights of chairs, foot rest size and angles), and whether electric wheel chairs can be accomodated at all. Most of the travelling shows and smaller amusement parks cannot afford the cost that would go into these redesigns.

Larger parks and theme parks (Disney, Universal Studios, Busch Entertainment Corp, not sure about Six Flags) often have their own set of engineers and designers, and can afford to absorb the cost of redesign, since they are going to be accomodating a larger and more diverse group.

However, with theme park attendance dropping somewhat and a lot of belt-tightening going on in the industry itself, many of the theme-parks are probably going to be using more pre-fabbed rides with new bells and whistles to save money. Case in point: stip down both Disney's "Dumbo" ride and Universal Studios Islands of Adventure's "One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish Blue Fish" ride (phew!) to their bare minimums and what do you have? A circular ride around a central post with XX number of sweeps (radial arms) and a rider's option of elevation.

The rides that can accomodate the wheelchair and rider are usually the stationary rides found at the larger theme parks; however, even these have limitations - in most cases, someone in an electric wheelchair must transfer to a regualr wheelchair before boarding.

Lest you get the wrong idea, ride designers are making changes to rides to accomodate a larger audience, so to speak. Roller coasters are now designed with seats for larger and overweight people - safety belt extensions, double belts instead of single belts hooking into the overshoulder harness, larger overshoulder harnesses (very much appreciated by us large-busted women - no more holding my breath for the duration of the ride!).

We just haven't gotten to the point where everything can be accomodated.

[drachillix]

Originally posted by lucwarm
So, I guess the answer to my question is that it's a combination of the facts that (1) it's difficult for a wheelchair to navigate the "mazes," and (2) a freebie for people who face tremendous disadvantages in life.

[Blackbeards FEC park operations supervisor checks in]

Actually per the Americans with Disabilities Act we are REQUIRED BY LAW to have access to our rides for handicapped persons. This is as of I think 1997. If they cant navigate the lines you have to backdoor them or make alternative loading arrangements.

As far a Make A Wish or Give Kids the World we are not required to put them in line ahead of anyone although we encourage them to come in at slower times so they can ride as much as they want. Also we give the family special wristbands to identify them. While they are in the park, everything is free for them. Biggest thing they might have to do is sign a register adjustment slip and off they go again. These programs in my IMHO are wonderful. These families are often emotionally and financially strained to the limits. Being able to walk into an amusement park and have every employee able to give 100% without question is a wonderful thing for them and actually kinda a fun thing for us.