Forgive me, But were you dropped as a Child?

[SpaceGhostofArrakis]

After reading about this on abcnews.com, I was completely shocked.

How the hell can you put your 5 and 7 year old boys in the trunk of a civic everyday for 4 months and not know it was wrong? That's your whole defense? You "Lack an understanding of right and wrong"?

Bullshit. This article also states that when a co-worker noticed the kids moaning in the back, you "turned up the car radio".

Jesus Christ on a Crutch. I hope those children are never returned to you. In my eyes, certainly, you've forfitted parental rights.

kids in the Trunk (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/kidsintrunk010731.html)

[Nocturne]

No, she was locked for a month in the trunk of a car.

::rimshot::

::feels ashamed for that::

That woman...bleh...that's simply disgusting.

[BoBettie]

Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Robert Ambrose said he was certain she hadn't acted out of malice. He said it appears she lacks an understanding of right and wrong and needs improved parenting skills.

Wow, is the the fucking understatement of the year or what?

Zette

[PotLuck]

So Rosemarie Randovan locked her kids in the trunk daily for months because she didn't understand right from wrong and wasn't acting out of malice ... but when her co-worker heard her children moaning she knew enough to try to conceal her crime using her car radio? Please. Given the Christmas-gift-like 3-month jail sentence, I think the real question here is "Was Judge Robert Ambrose dropped as a child?"

Jesus wept.

[capacitor]

The thing is that there are mitigating circumstances, that is lack of child care. It was a factor in the decision. I know of people who has to take lots of days off because they could not find a sitter for their children. They are on the verge of getting fired for excess absences.

[PotLuck]

But capacitor, despite their child-care crises the people you know did not lock their children in a car for several hours on a hot summer day ... day after day ... for months. Almost anything could have happened to Randovan's children; her solution was inexcusable.

[capacitor]

I agree with that. The parent subjected the children to a very dangerous situation out of her desparation. She should have called for help. But there is no reason to lambaste the judge for his decision.

[katiekilldare]

I'm wondering what kind of job this woman has. Was she working from her car when her co-worker heard the moans coming from the trunk? It says she turned up her car stereo. Couldn't the kids hang out in the back seat? I don't understand.

[iampunha]

Originally posted by Cajo
So Rosemarie Randovan locked her kids in the trunk daily for months because she didn't understand right from wrong and wasn't acting out of malice ... but when her co-worker heard her children moaning she knew enough to try to conceal her crime using her car radio?

That was what told me something was amiss here. Clearly she knew something was wrong, else why try to cover it up?

Three months for that shit . . . and this:

Randovan took full responsibility and said she's been in counseling in hopes she can some day be reunited with her children.

Yeah. Sure.*

Give them the keys to the car when that happens.

*I'm tempted to say "when they're both legally adults," but there just isn't enough to justify that IMHO.

[Drastic]

Now, this is what kills me: "parenting skills" are needed. "Counselling" for that purpose.

Someone who needs to be taught that locking people into a trunk of a car for hours, day after day, by my definition at least (and I really don't see it's unreasonable) is very much beyond ever learning that. This isn't a running-into-the-bank-oh-shit-are-the-windows-down? moment of forgetful stupidity, this is...something else.


*I'm tempted to say "when they're both legally adults," but there just isn't enough to justify that IMHO.

There is in mine. When an adult doesn't know "right from wrong", that adult should in no way be looking after children. Ever.

[grayhairedmomma]

Originally posted by katiekilldare
I'm wondering what kind of job this woman has. Was she working from her car when her co-worker heard the moans coming from the trunk? It says she turned up her car stereo. Couldn't the kids hang out in the back seat? I don't understand.

If someone had seen the kids in the backseat unattended they would have called the cops and she evidently knew enough not to let that happen that's why she hid them in the trunk. It's obvious to everyone except the judge that she knew what she was doing was wrong. I wonder how they used the bathroom, ate and got enough air?

I might get blasted for saying this but, it would have been better to have left them home unsupervised, assuming that the home could be made safe. It is still not the best solution but it would be better than being locked in a trunk.

[tevya]

Originally posted by mornea
Originally posted by katiekilldare
I'm wondering what kind of job this woman has. Was she working from her car when her co-worker heard the moans coming from the trunk? It says she turned up her car stereo. Couldn't the kids hang out in the back seat? I don't understand.

If someone had seen the kids in the backseat unattended they would have called the cops and she evidently knew enough not to let that happen that's why she hid them in the trunk. It's obvious to everyone except the judge that she knew what she was doing was wrong. I wonder how they used the bathroom, ate and got enough air?

I might get blasted for saying this but, it would have been better to have left them home unsupervised, assuming that the home could be made safe. It is still not the best solution but it would be better than being locked in a trunk.

I have to agree with this entire post.

If she locked the kids out of sight in the trunk (instead of in plain view in the car) AND turned up the radio to cover up the sounds of the children moaning then I believe that she knew right from wrong. If she did not know right from wrong, she would not have felt it necessary to hide those actions.

I agree that it would be much safer to leave the children alone in the home then to lock them in a trunk in San Jose, Ca. Can you imagine how hot it got in that trunk?

[Podkayne]

Whoa. I have to beleive that this woman has some serious biological malfunction, or I would get so depressed about the depths of human depravity that I'd crawl under my desk and not come out for a week.

There's a bright side. At least they didn't find two little corpses in the trunk. That storybook ending was just one hot day away.

[don Jaime]

According to Reuters, she works at a Silicon Valley elctronics firm. Doesn't say as what, and there's some confusion about what shift - evenings, apparently. What a dumbass. At least the kids lived. Who wants to try to get that judge disseated?

[Cardinal]

It reminds me of the point in "Explaining Hitler", where the author points out that you can't really say that somehow the Nazis thought they were actually doing the work of God. If that's the case, why did they try to cover it up? People don't try to hide when they're doing the right thing.

[alice_in_wonderland]

<sigh>

Unfortunatly, you don't have to be smart OR sane to get pregnant...

[PunditLisa]

We had a woman do that in Cincinnati, too. Except he was older (8 or 9) and put in the back of a van, not the trunk, while Mom worked 6-8 hour shifts at the mall. Worked well until a snoopy suburban Mom noticed him and called the police. Oops.

Maybe the car manufacturers can spiff up the trunk with a t.v. and wet bar and call it the DX ChildCare model.

[Ike Witt]

A similar story from the ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/storage010802.html)website.

[grayhairedmomma]

WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

Sometimes I am so sorry I brought my daughter into a world that is so fucked up.

[PotLuck]

Originally posted by capacitor
But there is no reason to lambaste the judge for his decision. I meant to address this part of your post, but mornea pretty much covered it when s/he said "It's obvious to everyone except the judge that she knew what she was doing was wrong." The 3-month jail sentence given was inappropriate for someone who concealed her potentially deadly child abuse and then perjured herself with a "whoops, was that wrong?" defense. The judge made himself look like a fool for buying that load of rubbish.

[aenea]

Originally posted by mornea
If someone had seen the kids in the backseat unattended they would have called the cops and she evidently knew enough not to let that happen that's why she hid them in the trunk. It's obvious to everyone except the judge that she knew what she was doing was wrong. I wonder how they used the bathroom, ate and got enough air?

I might get blasted for saying this but, it would have been better to have left them home unsupervised, assuming that the home could be made safe. It is still not the best solution but it would be better than being locked in a trunk.

Not everyone will call the cops, and not everyone bothers to look and see if anyone is there in the back seat. It happens.

I enter this thread with a bit of hesitation, but some of the smug self rightousness grates on my nerves. First, let me say I agree that this lady was wrong, flat wrong.

I would rather have been left at home also, when I was younger. Problem was that we didn't always have a home to stay at. So yes, there were times when my mom took us to work with her, and we stayed in the car (in California, me and 2 sisters), usually in the back seat. We had some crayons and books, and snacks, but that was us in that car for hours.

You people with your homes and stability and somewhat normal lives could probably never understand.

And no, I will never ever leave my child unattended, especially in a car, come what may, so please don't waste pixels on that.

[BoBettie]

aenea,
I can see where you're coming from, and neither circumstance is safe for the children. My issue is that she put them in the TRUNK (where they easily could have suffocated) and claimed that she "didn't know better". I say that she did know better, since she hid the fact that she was doing this.

I understand that parents sometimes have to take extreme measures (such as leaving a child in a car with something to do while working), but locking a kid in the trunk is the far end of the "This is a bad idea, but I have to" spectrum in my opinion.

Zette

[PotLuck]

Originally posted by aenea
I enter this thread with a bit of hesitation, but some of the smug self rightousness grates on my nerves. <snip>
You people with your homes and stability and somewhat normal lives could probably never understand.
And no, I will never ever leave my child unattended, especially in a car, come what may <snip>.Hello, aenea? This is the kettle. You're black. ;)

[Ben]

Originally posted by Dave Swaney
It reminds me of the point in "Explaining Hitler", where the author points out that you can't really say that somehow the Nazis thought they were actually doing the work of God. If that's the case, why did they try to cover it up? People don't try to hide when they're doing the right thing.

I disagree. By that logic, the ancient Christians who hid out from persecution knew that Christianity was wrong.

-Ben

[fnord1966]

Mothers that lock their kids in the trunks of hondas make the Baby Jesus cry.

That said, I think her sentence should be carried out in the trunk of a Geo Metro, possibly even underwater.

[onesbureaucratictendency]

Why are you picking on those who were dropped as children.
Both my brother and I were dropped, and you don't see us putting children in cars. (Of course, in his case he died in the accident, but I have to believe his sense would have survived if his body had.)

[Guinastasia]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
<sigh>

Unfortunatly, you don't have to be smart OR sane to get pregnant...

But you need a license to fish...

[Morgyn]

A few years ago, something similar to this happened in NJ. Single mom, worked in a department store in a mall, kept her child in the back of her car (I think it was a hatchback with the cover pulled shut). She went out every hour or so to check on the kid, but that's where the kid was. Her reason? She worked the afternoon/evening hours and couldn't find affordable child care and had no neighbours she trusted or family nearby to leave the kid with--and she HAD looked. For a while, there was a big statewide, and then nationwide, fuss about the high cost of child care, AND she became a spokesperson about the subject.

At first I was all set to condemn her. Then I heard how much she made in a week and how much child care would have cost her per week--and it was more than she made.

After that I didn't know what to think. On the one hand, there was sympathy for a woman who was TRYING to keep a roof over her and her kid's head, and food on the table, without going on welfare. (Mind you, any money she earned while on welfare would reduce her benefits in kind, so going on welfare and working wouldn't have helped.) On the other hand, there was "She locked her kid in her car! During winter!" Then there was, "sheesh! why is childcare so EXPENSIVE?". And lastly, "well, people who are looking after kids have to live, too."

It's a conundrum I've never been able to resolve. People who take care of our kids need to be paid fairly for what they do, so they can (a) take GOOD care of the kids, and (b) be able to support themselves; but the prices they have to charge to do this are often out of reach for the people who need them the most. It's a big problem, it's been a big problem for years, and it will continue to remain a big problem until enough people spend enough concentrated effort on it to solve it.

[saepiroth]

Fnord;

especially when he's the one in the trunk.

[milroyj]

Maybe if one can't properly care for a child, they shouldn't get pregnant. It's not that hard, really.

[The Ryan]

Originally posted by milroyj
Maybe if one can't properly care for a child, they shouldn't get pregnant. It's not that hard, really.
Exactly. Maybe these people that can't afford child care should have thought about that before they had their children.

[Guinastasia]

Yeah. Well, because poor people are ALWAYS stupid parents.

:mad:

[fnord1966]

Now everyone remember, when you are cooking your babies in the trunk of your car, be sure to turn them every 15 minutes for a juicy and tender baby. Serve with kitten frappe, and a puppy dog pudding. Parsely optional.

[SpaceGhostofArrakis]

Guinastasia
Yeah. Well, because poor people are ALWAYS stupid parents.

Oh good, I'm glad we agree on something














Seriously, I don't think anyone has said that, or implied it.

[grayhairedmomma]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by milroyj
Maybe if one can't properly care for a child, they shouldn't get pregnant. It's not that hard, really.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly. Maybe these people that can't afford child care should have thought about that before they had their children.

Sometimes things happen after the children are born that reduces a parent's ability to care for them in the preferred manner.

[PotLuck]

Originally posted by mornea

Sometimes things happen after the children are born that reduces a parent's ability to care for them in the preferred manner.Very true. Both my parents worked long hours for not very much money, sometimes leaving us home alone to care for each other. If my Dad had bailed on my Mom and my five brothers and sisters, we would have been beyond fucked.

"Why did you have six kids if you couldn't care for them, lady?" might have ended up being some poor shlub's last words.

[Morgyn]

Originally posted by The Ryan
Exactly. Maybe these people that can't afford child care should have thought about that before they had their children. [/B]
Isn't that a bit harsh? Circumstances can change without warning (divorce, major medical illness, death, job loss, etc.). Or are you seriously saying that people below a certain income level shouldn't have kids?