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05-25-1999, 02:34 PM
Can anyone answer why in the "Star Wars future" every space station that the Jedi's fight in has a bottomless pit? In Empire strikes back Luke jump down a huge hole after his fight with Darth vader. In Return of the Jedi darth threw the emperor down a hole. Now in Phantom menace the main fight scene takes place next to a seemingly bottomless pit. Oh yeah and the bottomless pit that Mark Hammills carreer fell down!
(sorry I couldn't resist) Don't you think that with all that technology they would figure that bottomless pits = danger?

05-25-1999, 03:02 PM
Well, sure... but also, the fall from a high place to a low place is a traditional metaphor and dramatic device. It allows the bad guy to suffer for all the nasty stuff he did, by falling (usually screaming), realizing he's gonna hit bottom after a while... and it allows the audience to gloat/revel in a dramatic death. Much better than just, bang! (or, in Star Wars, zapp!) and he falls over.

Think about it -- every western you've ever seen almost for sure has a bad guy being shot on a rooftop and falling off... The villain falling from a height has been used in all sorts of genres, from Hitchock's villain falling off the top of the Statue of Liberty, to the guy in DIE HARD who falls out the zillionth floor of the skyscraper... and that James Bond movie with the skiing cliff that the guy falls off forever.

My two cents.

05-25-1999, 03:45 PM
'Course it could also mean that George Lucas has about as much creative ability as a wet sock (albeit a very wealthy wet sock).

My 2 cents...I'm not trolling, here folks...so, all you Star Wars fanatics relax!

05-25-1999, 03:54 PM
Also, in the movie where we are first introduced to Jabba the Hut (Return of the Jedi?) there is the pit that is a giant digestive stomach that Jabba and his henchmen tries to throw Luke and his friends into. Instead, some of Jabba's henchmen get swallowed by the stomach to be slowly digested. So, it's another instance of good guys escaping from a pit and bad guys falling into it.

Likewise, there is that tunnel and cave that the Millenium Falcon flies into and lands on to hide in. However, it turns out the cave and tunnel are the mouth, throat, and stomach of a giant dinosaur-like monster. Again, the good guys escape from a stomach-pit.

05-25-1999, 04:20 PM
come to think of it with all of these large holes in the star wars movies....don't you think that Freud would have a bit to say about Mr. Lucas? And those light sabers......hmmmmmmm

05-25-1999, 08:17 PM
Also, why hasn't anybody in these movies figured out that it's a bad idea for an evil empire to have one central power station / command center and no backup?

05-25-1999, 09:09 PM
Well if we are going to get technical:

I figure most of these big holes are venting places for energy reactors and what have you.
Hence the enrgy fields that open and close as they vent (and trap young jedi) Why people keep falling down them is beyond me?

I dunno, it did not do anything for me. I just went over and watched when I could. Was happy I did not wait like some of these other guys. I knew it would happen though. With all the hype, there was no way the movie could match the hype and the fans minds. Without all the hype, I thought it was a good movie but nothing to go apeshit over.

05-26-1999, 05:06 AM
- - - Mark Hamill hs been in a few PC games (I dunno which ones) since the Star Wars movies. I doubt it pays what movies do, but I suppose he has fun. - MC

05-26-1999, 11:26 AM
Mark Hamill did/does the voice of The Joker in the Batman cartoons.


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"I had a feeling that in Hell there would be mushrooms." -The Secret of Monkey Island

05-26-1999, 11:51 AM
and before anyone else says it....He also made a guest "appearance" on the Simpsons. What I meant about his career is that he hardly has ever had the same success as he did with star wars.... And I'm sure someone is going to say that success is a relative term. But that's grounds for a whole new topic...

05-26-1999, 02:52 PM
He also played himself on an episode of "Just Shoot Me". (The only one I've ever seen.) He became friends with the main character (David Spade,) who was a Star Wars fanatic. Dave bragged to his coworkers that he wasn't just a simpering fan anymore, he and Mark were like equals. One coworker jibed back, "Oh, so he has little action figures of _you_ on _his_ bedstand?" I thought that was a pretty funny line.

To give the illusion of staying on topic, let me say that I think the idea of disposing of villians by having them drop down a big hole is pretty effective. It adds to the finality of the thing, and you don't have to worry about what to do with the body.

05-26-1999, 03:02 PM
I think we might need to explore the freudian aspect to this dropping bad guys into holes/good guys escaping holes thing. Consider:

1) The light saber. It would be hard to argue AGAINST it being a phallic device, especially since Jedi knights are supposed to construct their own, right?

2) The fact that in all the Star Wars movies so far, and in the plot points that appear to be coming up in future movies, NO JEDI KNIGHTS GET LAID. This would seem to indicate that getting involved with a woman is tantamount to going over to the dark side. I don't think this is a good message to be sending to kids.

3) The obvious organic symbolism of many of the holes that bad guys get tossed into in Star Wars.

4) The fact that, rumours regarding Catherine Zeta-Jones aside, George Lucas himself seems darned celibate for a Hollywood type.

In fact, I'd say that the Jedi knights are nothing more than medieval monks, probably with all the sexual repression and angst that went with the originals, too. And I'll bet anything that part of Anakin's coming hop on over to the dark side has SOMETHING to do with him boinking Queen Amidala. Just you wait...

Oh, and (to go way, way, off topic) it seems that the older Anakin will be played by Leonardo diCaprio ICK ICK ICK ICK ICK

05-26-1999, 03:17 PM
I think you're on to something there, Eris. I think ol' George is trying to get back at Linda Ronstadt!

05-27-1999, 12:07 AM
Has anybody considered that Mark Hamel might be cast as Anakin Skywalker in Episodes 2 or 3?

05-27-1999, 12:11 AM
Mark Hamill guest starred as a villain on the TV series "The Flash."

Considering that he has done a GREAT job as the voice of the Joker, doesn't Darth Vader's pleas to turn to the dark side of the Force seem in retrospect to be good fatherly advice?

05-27-1999, 12:16 AM
Mark Hamill hs been in a few PC games (I dunno which ones) since the Star Wars movies. I doubt it pays what movies do, but I suppose he has fun.

Hamill played Lt. Blair in Wing Commander III, IV and V. He was also the voice of the police detective (can't remember the character's name) in the first Gabriel Knight adventure.

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Dennis Matheson --- tanstaafl@earthlink.net
Hike, Dive, Ski, Climb --- home.earthlink.net/~tanstaafl (http://home.earthlink.net/~tanstaafl)

05-27-1999, 12:18 AM
MC wrote:

Mark Hamill hs been in a few PC games (I dunno which ones) since the Star Wars movies.

That would be Wing Commander 3 and 4. (And I think he makes a cameo appearance in Wing Commander Prophecy) Good games - had a few Star Wars-esque scenes in them too.


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"There is such a fine line between stupid and clever." -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

05-27-1999, 12:18 AM
Mark Hamill did Wing Comander all four of them.
Also there is a new movie just out with him starring as the bad guy.
He actually looks mighty mean!!

Also why are discussing matter of fact things at the same time as Star Wars.
It's a story children!!!!!!!




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Thor

05-27-1999, 12:19 AM
Argh! tanstaafl beat me to it!

05-27-1999, 12:46 AM
In the movie, didn't the Joker also fall to his death from a great height? ahhh. . .

As for the Joker that Mark played, I'm sure that I saw recently in the cartoon (forget which station; CN and WB both carry the show) the Joker fell to the ground from a great height and though he survived (was tied to a deflating balloon) he was promptly arrested.

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"I'm just too much for human existence -- I should be animated."
--Wayne Knight

05-27-1999, 10:07 AM
STAR WARS PEOPLE....... STAR WARS! I wasn't intending to start a game of seven degrees of Mark Hammil! hehee

05-27-1999, 02:02 PM
There's at least one major battle in the LucasArts "Jedi Knight" game which occurs largely on a narrow walkway high above a chasm, also.

A fight near the edge of a pit is more dramatic. Not only do you have to keep track of where your opponent is, but you have to be aware of your footing. It gives you more opportunities to show the good guys in trouble without making them look like complete wussbunnies.

05-30-1999, 05:08 PM
Guard rails! Why couldn't they just put up some freaking guardrails if they need the bottomless pits?!?! Maybe this [b]is[/i] just nitpicking in what is basically an escapist fantasy, but I agree with Tom. Phantom Menace is a rehash of New Hope and Jedi, with a race of aliens that make the Ewoks look like Bobba freaking Fett! There is not one original idea in the movie, and when holes in the plot are either so obvious or repeated so often that they make the movie less entertaining, they become bad writing. I thought PM was far and away the least of the Star Wars films. Almost as far behind Jedi as Jedi was behind Empire.

My $.02.

05-31-1999, 02:58 PM
What, you think they had OSHA in the federation?

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Mastery is not perfection but a journey, and the true master must be willing to try and fail and try again

06-02-1999, 10:19 AM
What, you think they had OSHA in the federation?
You mean the EMPIRE.
Star Trek fan!

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"I had a feeling that in Hell there would be mushrooms." -The Secret of Monkey Island