Must I love EVERYTHING about living here?

[yosemite]

I moved away from my home state of California a few years ago. I moved to an un-named state that is VERY different from L.A. This was for personal, family reasons and obligations. In the long run, I made the right decision (for now). But I cannot say I am enchanted with my new location. It's OK, it's not terrible, but it's not "home". Fortunately, I am able to return to CA fairly frequently for visits. This helps A LOT.

The bottom line is that I'm homesick. I don't blame people who were born here for loving it. It is their home. A lot of them probably wouldn't enjoy living anywhere else. I envy them for being able to live in the place they love.

Now, I admit, at first I bitched bitterly about my new home. I ruffled feathers. But I've learned, I've toned it down. Now I try to conceal my dislike of this place. I really try to be careful to not say anything too negative. (But I guess it's obvious that I am chomping at the bit to visit Calif. again - that seems to irritate some people.)

When I first moved here, I annoyed some people even though I wasn't bitching about anything at the time. (I can understand that my bitching would be irritating.) Sometimes, when some people would talk about some experience they had, I'd want to join in the conversation by relating any simular experience. But this invariably involved mentioning home. If they were talking about amusement parks, I'd mention Disneyland - my main amusement park experience. This irritated them. But what the hell else did they expect? I'd lived all my life in one place, and needless to say, most of my experiences will be set there. It's not my fault that most of the people I met hadn't been to Disneyland!

WHY does anyone care if I love it here or not? I made a decision to move here, for personal reasons. These reasons were NOT for the weather, the culture, or the scenery. So why do I need to somehow flatter the people who were born here, by telling them that everything here is wonderful, and better than where I grew up? I don't think it is. It's just my opinion, others certainly would disagree. A lot of people who are born in my new location think California is a dump. I don't care if they think that. Fine. Stay away! Calif. doesn't need any more lost tourists on the freeways anyway. It doesn't offend me in the least.

So, why do some people need to be told that their little corner of the world is BETTER than anywhere else? And, why do I HAVE to love it here? Am I the only person in the world who is living in a place that they are unenthusiastic about, but still need to live there for personal reasons? I certainly doubt it. I think, as long as I don't complain too much in front of others who live here, that's enough. Enthusiastic praise should not be expected, or required.

[China Guy]

You didn't by chance end up in Phoenix?

[jonfromdenver]

you must be in kansas. last time i went to kansas, some of the members with me termed the smell of the state as "ass-fog" because you it was so thick and smelly you could see it. i hate that place.

[yosemite]

Now now, this isn't some guessing game, where you all try to guess where I ended up! And I want to stress - where I live is OK. I can really understand why the long-time residents like it. It has stuff going for it. (She grudgingly mutters.) But its main transgression is that it is not my home. And, IMO, it doesn't have the appeal that my home state does. (It doesn't have Trader Joe's or Yosemite National Park, to list two things!) But that's just my opinion.

I have no desire to offend the residents of this state, who LIKE living here. I understand that they like it. I just don't understand why some of them need to get me to love every bit of it too. I won't. I never will. The most they should expect (and what I am giving them) is that I won't bitterly bitch about living here in front of them. I can see how that would wear thin. But LOVE it? Why do I have to love it, and act as if I am thanking God every day that I left that "cesspool" called California, to move to their perfect-in-every-way state? Give me a break! Are they so insecure, that they need this extra confirmation? What?!?

(Bear in mind, not everyone expects this. But some do.)

[sewalk]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
I live is OK.
If that's supposed to be a hint, it's pretty obvious to me. If I'm right, I can understand how you feel.

Home is where the heart is. Enjoy what you can, go home to California when you can, and generally just make the best of it and ignore the people you live around now when they grumble about California. I've been fortunate to live in a lot of different places and I can appreciate what's great about each one, even New Jersey;).

[Typo Negative]

I'm a transplanted Midwesterner living in LA. I think it's great. But I get annoyed by people who move here and talk about how their previous home/city/state was so much better. I understand being homesick, that happens to pretty much everybody when they move, and it happened to me. But I never bad-mouthed my new city. Because it annoys the locals.
Telling people your homesick or having a difficult time adjusting is another matter. That makes people sympathetic.

[RickJay]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
Now, I admit, at first I bitched bitterly about my new home. I ruffled feathers. But I've learned, I've toned it down. Now I try to conceal my dislike of this place.

You've blown it, I'm afraid. If you came in bitching and moaning about these people's HOME, it'll take them years to forget it. You're going to be "that girl from L.A. who thinks we're all jerks and our town sucks" for years.

[Duck Duck Goose]

I'm assuming you're in the Pacific Northwest somewhere, because they're the only ones who think of California as a "dump"--everybody else in the U.S. thinks of it as FantasyLand, La La Land. Even if other Americans hate the place, even if they tell you, wide-eyed and breathless, that it's full of dangerous lunatics, and prone to earthquakes, still you can tell they're fascinated by it. But they'll never characterize it as a "dump". No, I think that's an Oregon-Seattle Axis thing. :D

And Pacific Northwesters are especially touchy when it comes to transplanted Californians, who they think are taking over all the best spots. Buying up all the real estate, sending their loopy SoCal kids to the local schools, driving the wrong way on one-way streets, complaining about the rain, these people will never blend in...

[Tamerlane]

Okay, I'm with you. Up to a point. It's just that...You're homesick for LA!?!? Yeesh :D .

- Tamerlane ( CA Bay Area snob, who never, ever, ruffles feathers :p )

[Ethilrist]

I moved to St. Paul from the SF Bay Area about eight years ago, and I still miss it all the time. Particularly in winter... and mosquito season... and the rainy season... and summer... and whenever we try to find a good mexican restaurant... or a seafood place...

St. Paul is a great town, and there at tons of great reasons to be here, but it'll never be Berkeley.

[obfusciatrist]

If I were you, I'd thank god for that. One Berkeley is almost two too many.

But yes, I am always amazed at how protective people are of their home region and how much it offends them personally if you don't like something. There is much about the Bay Area that I don't like (and there is much that is wonderful) but people are always shocked (SHOCKED I say!) when I mention the bad (like Berkeley and the Golden State Warriors).

I've lived in geographically diverse places (Bay Area, Pacific Northwest, Alaska, Hawaii) and I find that once you get down to it, anywhere you live will be 97% the same as anywhere else (kind of like how muskrats and humans share a significant portion of the same DNA), places are defined by their fringes (the other 3%) and it isn't all going to be good.

After all, I've come to the conclusion that of all the places I've lived, Honolulu is on the bottom of places I would want to move back to.

[djf750]

i was born and raised in HELL-A. we moved out of there in 1987 and it was the best thing we ever did. we are now 3 hours northwest of hell on the central coast.

i'm curious, what exactly is it that you miss??
the smog, the traffic, the grafitti on every imaginable surface, the crime, the unfriendly paranoid people, the haphazard architecture, the threat of an 8.5 quake, the public schools, the phony people in their VERY expensive cars, the homeless, jerry dunphy , the dodgers, or NO NFL football?

wherever you are is better than that abomination.

oh shit, my brother is in town from hawaii (where he escaped to) and we have to drive down to the lovely san fernando valley this weekend (you know the place, where the mountains are invisible 300 days of the year due to the HAZE) to see him. oh boy.

wherever you are , kiss the ground.

[Sunshine]

[kind of a hijack]

This sort of reminds me of something I get ALL the time. I live in Denver. I do not ski. Everyone I meet feels they need to comment on this. It's as if just because I live near a lot of ski resorts, it would be sacreligous not to take advantage of that. "How can you not LOVE to ski?! Why would you live there if you don't want to ski?! You just haven't been in a while. You need to go again and you'll just fall in love with it! blah blah blah"

People are always trying to convince me that either I'll love skiing if I just go (I've been! I don't love it.) or that I need to move away so a skier can take my place since I am not appreciative of the wonderful gift of skiing that I've been given. Sigh. Do people in L.A. go to Disneyland every weekend? NO. Do people in Paris go to the Louvre every weekend? NO. Stop hassling me.

Uh, anyway...see, I can sorta feel your pain, yosemitebabe. Sorta.

[/kind of a hijack]

[Jodi]

Well, YO, with all due respect, I have to say that my general reaction to people who move to my home state from California and then proceed to complain about the new state/obsess nostalgically about the old is to bite my tongue to refrain from rudely inviting them to move on back, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Regardless of whether it is true or not, there is a real perception (at least in Montana) that Californians are far worse about this than people from any other state -- bitching about how bad things are in Montana and exclaiming how much better things are "back home," and refusing to view anything in the state in a positive light because it isn't what they're used to.

So I have to admit that if you were standing around with me and saying "In California we do this, in California we do that; oh, how I miss Trader Joe's, oh, how I miss Disneyland," you'd probably be bugging the shit out of me.

You don't have to love where you're at, but it might make things easier if you keep in mind that a lot of the people around you apparently do. And I see no reason why you have to continually compare the two locales. It ain't Cali; it's never going to be. It ain't your home, but it's your home for now. Maybe things would be a little better if you tried to appreciate it on its own terms, for what it is, instead of hating it for what it isn't?

[Briminator]

Hey yosemitebabe check the by-laws of the state you are in. Some of them require you not only love everything there but you must talk about how great everything is. :D

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Have you got anybody who can send you a Trader Joe’s care package? It might make you feel a bit better. I know it was one of the things I missed dreadfully when I moved from Orange County to San Mateo…fortunately, TJ’s followed me north a few months later.

[FallenAngel]

I can't comment on where YB is, but here in Phoenix, we do tend to get thoroughly pissed off at Californians. There's a reason for this. In the last several years we have had so many Californians move here that the culture is being co-opted into an LA-lite.

Granted, lots of people from lots of other states have moved here too, but for the most part they seem to adapt and assimilate. A percentage of the Californians seem to be more like missionaries than transplants. They so miss their beloved home state that they try to export the "culture" here. We - at least the "we" who aren't developers, resort managers or board of tourism members -resent this deeply.

In Phoenix's case, there's even more reason than in other states. California - despite its beautiful scenery, amazing coastline, industry leading technology sector and other positives - is the most socialist state in the union. Arizona is, traditionally, one of the most libertarian. That's the reason many of us, myself included, moved here in the first place.

When the California crusaders move here and try to subvert the culture and get laws on the books that resemble those back in the dear old People's Republic of Cali (mandatory fences on swimming pools, firearms restrictions, increased government subsidies, expanded industrial regulation, etc., etc.) it pisses us off.

I know a few California transplants. I like a few of them. Most of them seem to have been so infused with the culture they left, though, that their idea of paradise would be to turn Phoenix into a smaller version.

It's so bad that we Arizonans tend view every Californian we meet here with a degree of suspicion until they prove they're not a Calimissionary. It's unfortunate, but it's a reality.

[yosemite]

Oh my! I had a feeling this topic would start a lot of interesting conversation!

For the record, when I first got here and went through my "bitching" phase, I was at a different job, and was with a different set of people. I don't see most of those people any more.

I'm not in the Pacific Northwest, by the way, but that's as specific as I will get.

Like I mentioned before, it isn't everyone that has this attitude, but just some. One woman was so extreme, she kept on saying "We'll make a local out of you". Which would mean that I would have to drink a lot of beer, eat lots of pizza and BBQ (and I'm a vegetarian) and be completely obsessed with Football. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. This woman was a bit skewed, even though in other ways, she was OK. She liked to trash L.A., even though she'd never been there. (She had been at the San Francisco airport once, that made her an expert on California.)

I also don't constantly talk about "Back in California we do it this way..." But I will say, "I remember having a simular experience on the 5 freeway" or "You're lucky - the traffic in LA is much worse" and stuff like that. I do refer to California more or less frequently. This can't be helped. Most of my life experiences were set there. There have been times when I take off any reference to the location that a certain personal experience happened. And then someone will assume it happened locally, and say, "Oh, did you go to the store on 6th street?" And then I'll say, "No, Brand Blvd. in Glendale, California". So the California references come up frequently no matter what. I see no reason why that should be offensive. Often it isn't, but sometimes it seems like it is. I'm sorry, it's just a fact of my life. And since I frequently return to California, the CA references will still keep cropping up.

I think a lot of it is that so many of the people here are not big travelers. I have never met so many people who have never been within two states of this state. They just don't go anywhere! I can't get over it. Now, maybe It's just some weird fluke that I'm meeting a lot of people that don't go anywhere, I don't know. But I think that they resent me mentioning this 'exotic' different place, since they go NO WHERE. And I don't think they like hearing that things are different (and possibly preferable) to their little corner of the universe.

Yes, I get "Trader Joes Care Packages". All the time! And when I return for a visit, I stock up on lots of Trader Joes products, and send them back to myself in a big UPS box. Right now I have several bags of the chocolate UFOs in my fridge, and a few other yummy things. Yeah, that helps.

What do I miss about L.A.? Well, I'm actually from the Glendale/Sunland area, which I've always thought was a decent area. I miss Glendale College (great ceramics department) and I miss the Glendale Galleria (new Apple Store! Woo hoo!). I miss being so close to Yosemite, and Sequoia, the beach, Descanso Gardens, and the rest. I'm so much closer to so many interesting things (in my opinion). And it's just where I grew up - my home. Even if everyone else thought it was a dump, it would still be my HOME.

Just the other day I went on a "road trip" with my family, and we toured a scenic part of the state I currently live in. It was REALLY NICE. I am happy to find new things to like about this state, I am not closed off to any crumb of enjoyment I can find. But I'm still homesick.

[djf750]

oh , i forgot to add in my original post:

do you miss the chance to be hit head-on and incinerated by some punk who is being chased by the police in the DAILY LOS ANGELES HIGH SPEED CHASE that is being carried live by channels 2,4,5,7 9 and 13, all with their own chopper up in the sky trying to avoid each other and still get the shot of some big crash or the punk being shot by LAPD?

but to be completely honest, i love it in some sick way too
and i still get to watch most of the LA stations on cable so its like i never left.

[Slithy Tove]

In some towns, no amount of loving it will make much difference.

A family once moved to a small town with their two year-old son. Ninety-eight years later when he died these words were carved on his tombstone: "He was almost one of us."

Okay, that's a BS story, but those of us who have moved to small towns understand its spirit. To tell a true story, back when I lived in Reno, every shop where I worked would only hire locals to be sales reps - it was understood that no one else could develop the goodwill to maintain profitable accounts. I worked briefly for Claudia Martin, who told me that her main gripe with Reno was how outsiders were frozen out. And Claudia was Dean Martin's daughter - I would have thought she'd be seen as royalty in that culture. Nope. I regret I didn't keep in touch, so when Claudia died last February I didn't know where she was buried - but I can guess where it wasn't.

[Jodi]

SLITHY, that is so true. In my hometown, my best friend's mother, who moved there from Colorado 30 years ago, always said if she was every struck by a car the local newspaper would say COLORADO WOMAN HIT BY CAR.

YOSEMITEBABE, I think you need to perfect the Thin Smile. Any comment like "We'll make a local of you yet!" -- objectionable for sheer inanity, regardless of whether the person addressed even wants to be a local -- may be met with the Thin Smile. "Have you been to Bob's House of BBQ? Isn't it the best place in the world???" Thin smile. "Come on, admit it -- this is better than California, isn't it?" Thin smile.

I will reiterate, however, that if you're that homesick, maybe you should think of going home? If not to stay (if you can't, or at least not right now), maybe for a visit? Sometimes a stop to "refill the tank" with the people and places we love can help us to tolerate the people and places we don't love quite so much.

[Mole]

A fellow I work with used to constantly bitch about living here (Bay Area, CA) and he had only moved from San Diego. Never said a good thing about this place and had nothing but praise for S.D. I'm not exploding with civic pride but his daily rants began wearing thin, to the point where my answer was "Shut up and move back".

As I got to know him better, I learned that one of his reasons for moving was to be with his long-time girlfriend. They ended up splitting 3 months after he got here. He hated his job, hated living with his roommates, etc. So I think he naturally equated the misery he felt with this area. I guess San Diego reminded him of a simpler, more fun life (college, fraternity, surfing).

[yosemite]

Jodi wrote:
YOSEMITEBABE, I think you need to perfect the Thin Smile.

Thanks! I will do that! And YES, that one woman does do the "This is better than California, right?" thing. Oh puleeze.

I have given the "thin smile", or a "amused smile" when people try to trash California. I am sure I am not the only Californian who DOESN'T CARE that some people hate Calif. So what if they don't want to visit? So what if they think it is a smog riddled cesspool! Stay away! They couldn't handle the freeways anyway! :D I just don't wring my hands in distress when someone tells me how they didn't like their visit to California, or that they have no desire to visit. I give my thin smile and tell them of a bumper sticker I used to see a lot: "Welcome to California - Now Go Home". I just don't care. That tactic won't work on me (or most Californians, I daresay.)

I will reiterate, however, that if you're that homesick, maybe you should think of going home? If not to stay (if you can't, or at least not right now), maybe for a visit? Sometimes a stop to "refill the tank" with the people and places we love can help us to tolerate the people and places we don't love quite so much.

Oh, of course! I try to visit between 1-3 times a year. I have decent vacation time at my current job, so whenever I have a few days off, I'm on a plane home. It REALLY helps.

Which brings me to another thing - I have actually had a few people say (in a critical tone) "Why don't you go somewhere else for your vacation? There are places around here to see!" Give me a freakin' break. Where I spend my vacation is NONE of their business. God Forbid I want to see all my friends and family (not to mention "fill my tank" at Yosemite). Why people feel entitled to be even slightly offended that I dare to return California frequently is beyond me.

I mean, I've had a few people say "What does California have that we don't have anyway?" Which is a completely lame question. EVERY state or region has unique elements. South Dakota has Mount Rushmore. Tennessee has Nashville. Colorado has the Rockies. If I were from South Dakota, Tennesse or Colorado, I'd probably miss those things. Why shouldn't I?

And let's be real here. California is known for certain things, and not other things. It's known for the movie industry, mountains, beaches, Disneyland, Hollywood Bowl, and so on. I have actually gotten people try to tell me that their amusement park/symphony hall/whatever is "just as good" as what's in California. It's rarely true. But that doesn't make their region BAD. Their region has many enviable things that California doesn't have. It's the same everywhere. No one state or region can have everything for everyone.


Another rant (while I'm on a roll here) is what is so offensive about me mentioning (quite rarely) that "Oh yeah, I know someone who works on that TV show" or "Oh yeah, I saw that movie filming" or something like that. I do this RARELY. I don't think this is such an outragious thing to mention, when the coversation is movies, TV, celebrites, or what have you. I don't expect people to be terribly enthralled - but why does such a comment deserve stony silence? Occasionally, people just can't change the subject fast enough, or they act as if I never said a thing. This is odd. I remember telling a Star Trek fan that one of my friends wrote an episode of the original series. I knew some interesting Trekkie tidbits, I figured he might like to hear about them. So I mentioned my writer friend - and it was as if I had said nothing. This guy just completely ignored what I'd said, and kept on talking as if I'd never said anything. It was a bit creepy. What was so offensive about that? A simple "That's nice" would have sufficed.

Well, some people are freaky. Thankfully, many people (especially the pottery people) are quite wonderful. (I think all that clay makes them extra cool!)

[jack@ss]

I don't know you, babe, but I have to echo Jodi and FallenAngel. I am so sick of hearing the Cali transplants whine about how we here in Utah are a bunch of backwards, inbred, polygamist banjo-players. I have been to California more than once, and what I saw briefly through the smog was endless suburbs interspersed with filthy high-crime cities from Sacramento to Tijuana. And people from California drive like assholes; bumper-to bumper at 70mph, changing lanes without signalling. Then they move to Utah and bitch about the way we drive. If you cut someone off here, you'll get the digitus infamous, not a pistol shot.
I wasn't born in Utah and I have lived in several other states. I could live anywhere I choose. There are aspects of Utah culture that I don't care for, Namely the lock-step, knee-jerk religious right-wing politics and lack of seperation of church and state. But I choose to live here because the aspects that I like outweigh them. One of which is that it ain't the smog-filled, over-populated cultural and social toilet that we have to conserve our water because it was promised to.
Do yourself and everyone a favor and go home.

[Typo Negative]

Originally posted by jack@ss
I don't know you, babe, but I have to echo Jodi and FallenAngel. I am so sick of hearing the Cali transplants whine about how we here in Utah are a bunch of backwards, inbred, polygamist banjo-players. Lets get something straight. It's not a 'Californian' thing to bad-mouth a new state. As I said before, I hear that shit all the time from people transplanted from wherever...... I'm here in LA, and believe me, we get lots and lots of transplants. As many, or more, than anywhere else in the country.

It pisses us off to hear how things, for whatever reason, were better in Montana, Maine, Tennessee, Ohio(where I'm from :D), or anywhere else. I'm getting to the point where I wanna ask "if it was that great, why the fuck did you leave????"

[yosemite]

Originally posted by jack@ss
I have been to California more than once, and what I saw briefly through the smog was endless suburbs interspersed with filthy high-crime cities from Sacramento to Tijuana.

Please - exactly who is that anti-CA diatribe directed at? Surely not me. If you had read my most recent post (The one right above yours) you would realize that I DON'T CARE. (Any other Californians that are deeply wounded by jack@ss's comments? Any of you wringing your hands in distress because jack@ss doesn't like CA? No...didn't think so.)

There are aspects of Utah culture that I don't care for, Namely the lock-step, knee-jerk religious right-wing politics and lack of seperation of church and state. But I choose to live here because the aspects that I like outweigh them.

What's this?!? You are complaining about Utah! You are complaining about the "lock-step" and "knee jerk religious" types. HOW DARE you complain! Move out of Utah immediately! You must love everything about Utah in order to live there!!!

Why are your negative statements about Utah somehow acceptable? Why can't I not like certain things about the state I currently live in? I stay here for important personal reasons. I have certain obligations that make it necessary to stay here. My choice. The fact that I am less than enchanted with certain aspects of the state I currently live in does not negate the still-compelling reasons why I stay. And (I repeat again) as long as I don't bitterly complain to the locals, what's the big deal? What is so offensive about the concept that I don't kiss the ground of the state I currently live in? To repeat the OP, MUST I love everything?

spooje wrote
Lets get something straight. It's not a 'Californian' thing to bad-mouth a new state.

That's exactly it. There have been many times that I have told people that it's just a "homesick" thing. No insult intended towards their State. I just miss home. If I were from Washington, or Oregon, I'd still miss it. I'd still pine for it.

Now that I am past my "bitching phase" and I try to be careful about what I say, I still find that some people are bothered that I don't totally embrace all things about this State. And, to cite an example I gave previously, the mere mention of a friend in the movie business (a "California thing") will get stony silence from some people. And I emphasize, I haven't been bitching to these people, so what is their problem, anyway? Why am I not allowed to mention Disneyland, or the mountains, or whatever, without ruffling feathers of some people? I'm NOT bitching, or making comparisons. I'm just mentioning Disneyland when a conversation is about amusment parks. Exactly what is so wrong with this?

Some people seem to expect that I should love ALL things about this new state, and that I must tell them how horrible California is, and how I am SO lucky I got out . Nothing less will satisfy them. Is this really reasonable? I certainly think not. I think it's bullshit.

[Typo Negative]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
Some people seem to expect that I should love ALL things about this new state, and that I must tell them how horrible California is, and how I am SO lucky I got out . Nothing less will satisfy them. It's because they secretly want to be Californians! :D

[11811]

Well just for the record:

I'm from New Jersey, I don't expect too much...

and why the fuck am I expected to laugh along with every bone-headed assknot who thinks that taking a potshot at the Garden State is synonymous with being clever? and that there is some unwritten rule that you have to be a good sport when some no-nothing dick-splinter bags on your home state based on what they know from watching tv and hearing other people bag on it?

[MysterEcks]

You like what you know. I've been to California--San Diego and San Francisco areas--and while they were nice enough places, I had no urge to move there. I don't imagine people from those places would have much urge to move to the Pennsy boondocks, either.

As for why people in an area want you to like (or at least pretend to like) everything there, it's probably because you're an outsider--natives can dis the place, but they resent people coming in from elsewhere and doing it. (This would be analogous to the perception that members of a given ethnic group can use ethnic slurs against their own group, but that outsiders shouldn't.) And you came from one of the alleged "glamor" locations in the country, and that just adds to the effect. In part it's clannishness, and in part it's an attempt to cover up an inferiority complex--and the smaller the area, the more likely it is. (And the longer it takes to stop being an outsider.)

[yosemite]

Originally posted by MysterEcks
You like what you know. I've been to California--San Diego and San Francisco areas--and while they were nice enough places, I had no urge to move there. I don't imagine people from those places would have much urge to move to the Pennsy boondocks, either.

Thank you. That's exactly it. I don't expect people who were not born in California to love everything about it. I was born and raised in CA, it's what I know, and miss. If I were born in Delaware, I'd feel the exact same way about Delaware. I probably wouldn't be overly impressed with California. And on and on. Use any two States or regions, the same thing.

As for why people in an area want you to like (or at least pretend to like) everything there, it's probably because you're an outsider--natives can dis the place, but they resent people coming in from elsewhere and doing it.

True, I've learned that. That's why I try to be more careful about what I say these days.

And you came from one of the alleged "glamor" locations in the country, and that just adds to the effect. In part it's clannishness, and in part it's an attempt to cover up an inferiority complex--and the smaller the area, the more likely it is. (And the longer it takes to stop being an outsider.)

Precisely. I think some of the irritation I get is because so many of the people I meet have NEVER BEEN ANYWHERE. As my sister says, "They haven't been 7 miles outside of their village." I find I get more subtle hostility from these kind of people. When I encounter people who like to travel a bit more, they seem far more accepting and receptive to my Disneyland references.

I also remember a very nice co-worker who actually tried to help my homesickness. She knew the more "arty" areas of town well. She showed me where to get some killer Veggie Sushi, and where to get falafel, and pointed me to a fairly decent art supply store. Instead of trying to force me to "get over it", she helped me find elements I missed from home. I cannot say how much I appreciated it. And I did appreciate it, and enthusiastically told her so.

[Agrippina]

About the Californians talking about "Back Home":

I've seen this a lot. I live in Kansas City, MO. Moved here five years ago from my hometown of Las Vegas, Nevada. At school there were quite a few kids from California, and they would never quit talking about how great it was.

I happen to have a love/hate relationship with Kansas City. I regret moving here (not my decision; my parents), but I could never move back to Vegas. It's changed too much. It wouldn't be the Vegas I remember. I already have a place I plan to move after I graduate from college. At times I hate this city, and other times I think of it as home. But if I had a scale of one to ten, I'd rate living here a 4. I've gone past the point of complaining about it nonstop and just accept it as best as I can without voicing my dislike to the locals.

Now Kansas on the other hand.... :D

[jack@ss]

Didn't mean to get you so riled up, Yosemitebabe. If you miss home so much, why not just go back home?

[Jodi]

I am so sick of hearing the Cali transplants whine about how we here in Utah are a bunch of backwards, inbred, polygamist banjo-players.

Even worse, sometimes they tell lies about Utah.

debates posting smilie; decides surely one is not needed

[yosemite]

Originally posted by jack@ss
Didn't mean to get you so riled up, Yosemitebabe. If you miss home so much, why not just go back home?
:rolleyes:

Ah yes. I see you refrained from actually reading anything I've written. Such a trivial detail, after all.

Hmm. I have not specified which state I currently reside. I have not ranted about how "terrible" it is in any detail or with any specifics. (And I hasten to add, it's not about it being "terrible", which it really isn't. It's more about it not being my home.)

However, you have not only ranted on and on about how horrible California is, you've also royally dissed Utah, the state that you currently call your home. I never knew it was so bad there until you informed me! So - sorry to get you so riled up, jack@ss! :D

[MysterEcks]

yosemitebabe said:
If I were born in Delaware, I'd feel the exact same way about Delaware.
Jeez, I don't know about Delaware....



It's a joke, dammit...put those pitchforks down....

[Badtz Maru]

Sounds like he's in Texas. Some people here are excessively proud of our state. I've learned not to ever mention that I thought Tulsa was a lot nicer city than Dallas.

[Hibbins]

Precisely. I think some of the irritation I get is because so many of the people I meet have NEVER BEEN ANYWHERE. As my sister says, "They haven't been 7 miles outside of their village." I find I get more subtle hostility from these kind of people. When I encounter people who like to travel a bit more, they seem far more accepting and receptive to my Disneyland references.

Have you been everywhere? ;)

I think some of your disdain for the sedentary locals may be showing through. Traveling alone does not make one enlightened. :)

I've been to or through about 25 or 30 of the 50 states, live in a large metropolitan area, and still consider a small town home. In small towns there seems to be a greater emphasis and bonding based upon shared experiences. Not shared as in the same thing happened to me in California, but as in the Johnsons dog bit me too. "Home is where the heart is", sums it up I think. Your heart is obviously in California, most of your neighbor's hearts are in your current location. I'd bet most are well meaning, and just want you to get that feeling of home that they have about the place.

If you keep searching for ignorant rubes, you'll keep finding them, whether it's small town USA or Los Angeles. Be a little choosey with your words, sometimes you might have to bite your tongue. Not because what you say or want to say is wrong, but because it may be likely to be misinterpreted. In a small town everyone has been through the experience of; local kid moves to big city and is now an enlightened, diversified, worldly expert, who comes back and tells everyone how much better a place the big city is. Tends to make people defensive when talk turns to how things are done back home in the city.

Everywhere is great, to someone. The qualities and experiences that people in small towns and rural areas love are seldom found in large metropolitan areas. Conversely, the qualities and experiences that people love about large cities aren't generally found in rural settings.

If you can, try dropping any references to California (for awhile) unless absolutely necessary. I think you'll find that the ones that think you are being pretentious will be much easier to get along with and will quit trying to beat down your barriers. I also think you might find then that people may get more curious about you and engage you in conversation regarding where you're from.

[yosemite]

Originally posted by Hibbins


Have you been everywhere? ;)

Oh, certainly not. Probably most of the states of the union, (excepting Alaska) and Canada, Mexico. Certainly more than one or two other states. I've been on a plane, for crying out loud! More than can be said for some of these people. Which doesn't necessarily mean anything!!! (My mom hadn't been on a plane until she was in her 60s.) One of my friends here has hardly been anywhere, and she is the coolest person ever. But I offer the "no travelling thing" up as a possible explanation as to why some of these people seem so defensive or resentful. (Or, it could be the phases of the moon that is making them that way - your guess is as good as mine.)

Some people just seem to resent that some of us have gone to other places. (And I've heard this not just directed at me.) My theory is that maybe they figure if they don't hear about it, it doesn't exist. I don't know what their problem is, but it certainly is unreasonable.


"Home is where the heart is", sums it up I think. Your heart is obviously in California, most of your neighbor's hearts are in your current location. I'd bet most are well meaning, and just want you to get that feeling of home that they have about the place.

That's fine. The coworker who showed me that this new state had good veggie sushi was doing that, IMO. The people who wanted me to embrace football (a sport I dislike) as an effort to "fit in" were not. And for damned sure the people who griped because I spent my vacations in California (visiting family and friends, and Yosemite) sure as hell didn't.

If you keep searching for ignorant rubes,
:rolleyes: Please. If I had to "search" for them, I wouldn't be starting this thread.

Be a little choosey with your words, sometimes you might have to bite your tongue.

I do that anyway. Doesn't always help.


Everywhere is great, to someone. The qualities and experiences that people in small towns and rural areas love are seldom found in large metropolitan areas. Conversely, the qualities and experiences that people love about large cities aren't generally found in rural settings.

You put that beautifully. Exactly. That is why I don't understand why some people seem defensive about their corner of the world, because EVERY place has its charms. For the exact reasons you explain.

If you can, try dropping any references to California (for awhile) unless absolutely necessary.

No, not possible. I mean, I do not try to dredge up California references gratuitously, but since the majority of my life experiences are set there, and since I visit often, it's pretty damned impossible. There are so many "land mines" out there, that I just don't see coming. Like when everyone was talking about the musical "Phantom of the Opera", which everyone else saw locally, I saw in L.A. I mentioned some special effect in the musical (it's a glizty musical). One of my friends snapped at me, "We didn't see that, our music hall isn't big enough to accomodate it". Well, how was I supposed to see that coming? The only way I can avoid these "land mines" is to completely forget I have a past, NEVER mention anything from my past, ever. This is not reasonable. I don't intend to do that.

I think you'll find that the ones that think you are being pretentious will be much easier to get along with and will quit trying to beat down your barriers. I also think you might find then that people may get more curious about you and engage you in conversation regarding where you're from.

I really appreciate your thoughtfullness, and yeah, what you suggest will work on reasonable people (of which there are plenty, don't misunderstand.) But then there are the xenophobic (or whatever) defensive, knee-jerk ones. And NOTHING less than total devotion to this state will satisfy them. In order for them to be "comfortable", I will have to obliterate most of my life, NEVER mention it, ever. Which is absurd. That's more their problem than mine.

[Legomancer]

I had a friend who, the last two years of high school, moved to another state. After graduation, he returned to Louisiana for college, and I was fortunate enough to get to room with him.

One of the many annoying habits he had was this: everything in the other state he lived in was either incredible or terrible. Anything you knew of that was good, well it was ten times better there. And anything bad was ten times worse there. So you could neither praise nor complain, because you just didn't know what it was like in that other state.

The other state? Arizona. Any Arizona dopers, can you confirm or deny the absolute extremes of human experience that my friend claimed Arizon exemplified?

[Hibbins]

I just wanted to add, that you'll (probably) never be able to please some of the locals. Some will be incapable of seeing you as anything but an outsider, as if being raised in a given area gave you membership in a club. Some will take time.

Some are just defending home, some are actually unhappy where they are stuck and don't want to hear about greener pastures, and some are just nabobs. I know it's not reasonable to never mention California again. Basically I intended that you could try to avoid referencing California unless it was absolutely critical to what you are saying. At least in the presence of the worst offenders.

Part of it is initiation. You see there actually is a club of sorts. It is the we all had the same experiences club. If you don't fit the mold so to speak, you won't stay around long. You're an unknown element. So they grill you and question you to figure how you fit in. All the while hoping and assuming that you are one of them.

If you really want to get along you will unfortunately have to make a conscious effort not to draw comparisons. If you just want to show them up, stop now and avoid the embarrassment and frustration. You'll never convince but a few that anything is actually better where you come from. Unless it is something completely unavailable locally.

[yosemite]

Originally posted by Hibbins

Some are just defending home, some are actually unhappy where they are stuck and don't want to hear about greener pastures, and some are just nabobs. I know it's not reasonable to never mention California again. Basically I intended that you could try to avoid referencing California unless it was absolutely critical to what you are saying. At least in the presence of the worst offenders.

True, true, true. And I do try, thought even when I do try, a "land mine" will come up (like the "Phantom of the Opera" incident.)

If you really want to get along you will unfortunately have to make a conscious effort not to draw comparisons.

Yes, "drawing comparisons", as in "Oh, it's so much better in California" is not going anywhere. Mentioning my experience on a certain topic sometimes requires some semplance of a "comparison" at times. If people are talking about their high school, for instance, I might talk about mine. Not having to mention where I went to high school. But if it turns out that my high school experience was different on some interesting point, there will be questions about that. There are always differences that I don't see coming, that I never expected. And people will ask.

And sometimes I will ask people something like "Do you have this law here? Do you have this product here?" And if they don't have the law/product/service (and they perceive that as a negative thing, and/or they see that I am disappointed) then once again there are ruffled feathers. There are differences that disappoint me. I don't have to "bitch" about them for people to pick up that I am disappointed. And then that ruffles their feathers.

If you just want to show them up, stop now and avoid the embarrassment and frustration.

No - I can't say I've never done that (it was irresistable with some of the "worst offenders" who were really being obnoxious) but no. That's nowhere. You're right, no one will be convinced.

You'll never convince but a few that anything is actually better where you come from.

No, it's pointless. What I would like is for the locals here to stop trying to convince me that things here are better than where I came from. Because that's equally embarrassing, and frustrating for them. And yet some still try to convince me that things are really better here.

Unless it is something completely unavailable locally.
Plenty of that. Plenty of that. (But I try to keep my mouth shut anyway. :) )