What is a "berk"?

[dfahs]

Can any of the UK members explain to me what is implied by the insulting term "berk"?

Thank you.

[Rodd Hill]

Rhyming slang.

Berkeley Hunt (famous upper-crust hunt with dogs, etc.)= cunt.

Well, you asked!

[Jois]

Half UK here - Did you hear or read it? Burke might be one of the men who got bodies for the great anatomists in the 1900s from freshly buried graves.

Rather than dig up the whole coffin Burke figured out that he only had to dig up the head end, then break open the coffin, slip a rope around the corpse's neck and pull the body out. Easier and faster-

So to burke some one became strangling... I'd say you were called something not too very nice if someone called you Burke, Burker or some variation thereof.

But if it's Berk, I donno.

[dfahs]

Well, you asked!

Yes, I did, and I would have been quite surprised if the answer were something mild. Thanks for adding to my supply of useless knowledge!

[glee]

Rodd Hill is correct in the derivation.

However I would not tell a pupil off for using 'berk', as these days it just means a fool. Cunt however would not be acceptable (as a swear word).

[C K Dexter Haven]

I thunk that Berkeley and Berkshire were pronounced Barkley and Barkshure ... ?

[tracer]

Rodd Hill left out one of my favorite Cockney rhyming slang words:

Bristol (from Bristol Cities) = titties.

Mel Brooks even used this in Robin Hood: Men in Tights, so it must be for real.

[neuro-trash grrrl]

Incidentally, a couple of common American slang terms can be traced to Cockney rhyming slang. Using "loaf" for "head" comes from "loaf of bread", and the term "raspberry" as in "Bronx cheer" comes from "raspberry tart", which rhymes with...

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"That's entertainment!" —Vlad the Impaler

[neuro-trash grrrl]

I've seen the term "berk" in print, spelled like that. It appears in The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole.

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"That's entertainment!" —Vlad the Impaler

[C K Dexter Haven]

Is it pronounced "burk" or "bark"?

[heretic]

It's pronounced "burk" and the rhyming slang derivation is the correct one.

ben

[heretic]

Except I always thought it was Berkshire Hunt.

[Rodd Hill]

You're quite right, heretic: it is -shire. I must have subconsiously been channeling a 1930's musical movie extravaganza.

A few other rhyming slang that I can recall:

Richard (Richard the Third)= turd;
apples 'n' pears = stairs
trouble and strife= wife;
titfer (tit for tat)= hat;
plates (of meat)= feet;
german bands = hands (circa 1910, that one).

[mr john]

Nuero thanx for the raspberry, uh for the info i mean, I read a really convuluted explanation for that once and I thought it sounded screwy.Now I know.
I think you're berking up the wrong tray,Dex.
Dont worry I won't tell anyone I'll keep it under my titfer, I wear a derby.

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"Pardon me while I have a strange interlude."-Marx

[Homer]

All right. What's goin on here!? What's the deal with rhyming slang, anyway? Does anyone in the ol' UK still do that, these days? Or is it one of those things people do for a while, then realize how gay it is, and quit? Like Pokemon...

Seriously, though, what's UP with this rhyming slang stuff I keep hearing about? Is rhyming that big a deal in UK?

--Tim

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We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first "lost generation" nor today's lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.

[omni-not]

From Collins {British} Dictionary:

burk or berk: n. Brit. slang a stupid person, fool (shortened from Berkeley or Berkshire Hunt, rhyming slang for cunt.

burke: vb. 1. to murder in such a way as to leave no marks on the body, usually by suffocation. 2. to get rid of, silence or suppress. {C19: named after W. Burke (1792-1829), Irishman executed in Edinburgh for a murder of this type}

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omniscientnot, in a previous incarnation.
The hyphen says it all...

[heretic]

Tim, I don't know of any connexions between homosexuality and rhyming slang, except "Jinge" -> "Ginger Beer" -> "Queer".

Rhyming slang is a linguistic phenomenon, not a children's fad dreamt up by soulless marketeers.

ben

[Crusoe]

Homer,

Rhyming slang is not commonly used in Britain except for the occasional phrase which has slipped into general use. It was pretty much a London phenomenon in the first place (London's east end).

I can't think of many phrases off-hand that are used much...but here's a few:

bristols -> Bristol City (a football club) -> titty
syrup -> syrup of figs -> wig(s)
jimmy -> jimmy riddle -> piddle (piss)
ruby -> Ruby Murray (I have no idea who that is) -> curry ("let's all go for a ruby!")

Rhyming slang is still being made up, though (mostly on the playground or in the pub!) - I know a few people who use...

Pat -> Pat Cash -> slash (another one for piss)
Pete -> Pete Tong (well-known DJ) -> wrong (as in "it's all gone Pete")

Always enlightening, eh?

[ruadh]

"I haven't got a scooby" - Scooby Doo - clue

[glee]

CKDextHavn,

Yes, your pronounciations are exactly what I'd use. Incidentally there's a port drink called 'Cockburns', which apparently you're supposed to say as 'Co'burns' (sighs deeply - why not just keep it simple?)

tracer,

as you say, 'bristols' means 'breasts'. But what on earth is 'Bristol Cities' (as per dictionary)? There's a football team called Bristol City, but these rhymes are supposed to be obvious, aren't they?

Homer,

I was born in Central London, and my mate in East London. That makes him a 'cockney' - supposedly born within the sound of Bow (Church) Bells. Both of us can do a Lunnen accen' (London accent), and be recognised as such by other Londoners. But in 30 years neither of us have used rhyming slang - except when asked to by tourists, of course.

London for beginners:

Leave it ou', mate (stop it, or I don't believe you)

Nice set o' wheels, John (I admire your car, friend)

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In the bathtub of history, the truth is harder to hold than the soap... (Pratchett)

[Homer]

I wasn't trying to insult your stuff, guys, I was just being a smart ass. I just wondered how in the hell this got started? I've found pages upon pages of rhyming slang on the 'net. This disturbs me greatly. BTW, how did you guys learn about the Revolution of 1776 in your schools? This interests the hell out of me to find out how other cultures teach their missives to their young. I understand the Japanese pretty much ignore the rape and pillage of China and such... What do you guys learn about the tea party, and that stuff?

--Tim

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We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first "lost generation" nor today's lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.

[glee]

Homer,

As Mattk and I posted, I don't think rhyming slang is used except for the occasional word/phrase, or to interest tourists.

You have an interesting point about teaching history. It's a long time since I was at school, but I think the Brits are reasonably fair because:

- we have a lot of history (well, you know what I mean!), so individual incidents matter less

- we've fought a lot of wars, so many countries have been both our allies and enemies (if you're interested, I think Portugal is our longest-standing ally)

- we had an Empire, but were reasonably gracious about giving it up (we still work together thru the Commonwealth)

- we're a small island, so were invaded less

[glee]

Homer,

Our Head of History tells me:

we teach 'Native American interaction with European colonists' (i.e. Cowboys and Indians!) to 13 year olds, and

'American History 1918 - 1945' (i.e. boom, bust and the World Wars) to 15 year olds.

Most educated people pick up on stuff like the Boston Tea Party by reading, I expect.

[VegForLife]

Or is it one of those things people do for a while, then realize how gay it is, and quit?
Now *there's* a telling statement. . .

Rich