*Real* black helicopters

[Cardinal]

Does anyone know if the govt. has ever tried to make real "BHs"? It seems to me that at least they would have tried to put a bunch of bullhorns on the side of one, and broadcast out of phase noise to quiet them. Whether it's really a feasible idea is a different story.

So, anyone ever heard of that, or know if it has a remote chance of working?

[Cabbage]

Actually, I have heard of broadcasting out of phase noise to quiet aircraft; I'm pretty sure it's been tried. I don't know if it failed, was too expensive, or what; someone around here will probably know.

[Koxinga]

If it was successful, you'd never hear it.

*yuk* *yuk* *yuk*

DHR

[Moonshine]

I know that Volkswagen experimented with a similar system to dampen the noise inside their cars; however it had the added effect of cancelling out speech too, as the computer couldn't tell the difference reliably between ambient noise and speech, so the project hasn't been realised yet.

[funneefarmer]

I thought there was a car muffler for sale in the aftermarket that does this, but I could easily be wrong. My guess is that it would be comparably expensive.

[EvilGhandi]

The answer is yes. Helicopter manufacturers have been after the elusive "stealth" helicopter since the day they took flight.

Problem with your bull horn solution is that the lions share of the noise comes from the rotors. While tuning the exhaust to produce a sound canceling "anti sound" would help to conceal turbine whine, the WOP WOP WOP of the blades remains.

Most modern military craft use a "quieter" composite rotor in place of the aluminum skinned blades of yore. When I left the service back around '80, there was still serious research being done on sound damping rotors. Watching the new Blackhawks, I am amazed at how quiet (compared to Huey's) they are. Of course thay still make a racket when in full downward pitch...

If I had to hazard a guess, it would be that there are experimental blade systems that are damn near silent. That we don't see them on existing aircraft is probably telling of a lack of practicality or maybe durability. I know from personal experience that early composite blades were prone to failure.

[mr john]

SHHHH! you don't know who might be reading this.

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"Pardon me while I have a strange interlude."-Marx

[tracer]

The usual "Black Helicopters" that conspiracy theorists talk about are not "stealth" helocopters or "silent" helicopters. They are normal military helicopters with no identifying markings on them (no flags, no registration numbers, etc.).

Until this year, the army publicly denied that they had any unmarked helicopters. Then, the army staged a couple of un-announced "urban assault" wargames in or near populated areas. (The populations there were, of course, major ticked-off at the army about this.) And the army has since admitted that, during these wargames, they used unmarked helicopters.

Now, unmarked helicopters in a wargame are a far cry from the usual paranoid stories about black helicopters descending into rural areas and abducting neo-militia survivalists. But the fact that the U.S. military has now confirmation that they have unmarked helicopters of any kind, when they'd previously denied they had anything of the sort, is surely going to add fuel to the conspiracy theorists' fires.

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Quick-N-Dirty Aviation: Trading altitude for airspeed since 1992.

[Oblio]

Sighting report ....

I have seen several black helicopters land behind my house on a civilian airfield. They were dark, Chinooks from what I could tell. I heard they were special OPS from a nearby base. The operation I noticed was a quick cigarette & leak in the dark. Haven't seen (or heard, they make a racket when at full pitch) them for a year or two.

Oblio

::Locking doors and hiding in attic::

[mr john]

I warned you. Those copters are controlled from moble centers in the trailors of unmarked semis, not even license tags.Over all command is centered in other semis with only the word FISH in relativly inconspicuos size. but all the more obvious because it is the only marking. FISH Federal Insidiously Sneaky Helicopters.

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"Pardon me while I have a strange interlude."-Marx

[DougC]

- - - Oh yea, mr john like you are so full of shit. The FISH semis are only where they refuel -
-F.I.S.H.-
-
Fuel
Ichneumon
System( :)
Helicopters
-
- - - The real command centers are the train boxcars marked "No Humping". It's so obvious it seems silly to say, but:
-N.O. H.U.M.P.I.N.G.-
-
New-world
Order
Helicopter
Urban
Military
Panic
Initiation
Network
Group
-
- - - Now you're probably wondering where Jesse Ventura fits into all this. During the 60's, Jesse visited Stalingrad and visited Nikita Khrushchev, and was given a gift: a small ceramic pig inscribed with the multilingual phrase "Huudenmot salii dovop

[DougC]

DammiT!!! I didn't want that smiley there! THey're onto me/gotta go
gota burn the house down. get lost for awhile
I will contact when I am able

<font size=7>FNORD</font>


And now I have to kill you all.(SIGH) I was SO hoping for a quiet weekend. Ah, well. A S.G.A.'s (Sinister Government Agent) work is never done.

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Is an appreciation of beauty a function of the human soul?

[hflathead]

I know this is a late reply, but I did a search before starting a new thread. ( getting slightly smarter at this)

Back in 1982, my wife and I did a motorcycle camping trip through Florida. When we left Ocala Nat. Forest heading north to Jacksonville on S.R.21, a weird thing happened. We each rode our own bikes, and there was no other traffic on this section of 2 lane deserted road. I noticed up ahead, a chopper at tree level, crossing the road about a mile ahead. In a couple of minutes, off to our immediate left, was a totally flat black chopper( looked like a Huey )with no insignias, or numbers. The scarey thing was he was pacing us at tree level, maybe 40 yards away, and the door was open, with a manned machine gun pointed at us! He continued this for about 45 seconds (seemed alot longer) and then banked off and disappeared. That is truely enough to make you soil your pants. I was flight crew in the Navy for 4 years and never saw anything like this. later, Tom

[SilentKnight]

I've heard many reports similar to hflathead's. People driving on deserted highways with black choppers following them for a short while. Other reports claim that the men in the choppers spray chemicals over the land doing biological warfare weapons testing on U.S. citizens.

A really good site to check out is:

http://www.parascope.com/


It should have some info on the mysterious "black helicopters."

[astro]

Until this year, the army publicly denied that they had any unmarked helicopters. Then, the army staged a couple of un-announced "urban assault" wargames in or near populated areas. (The populations there were, of course, major ticked-off at the army about this.) And the army has since admitted that, during these wargames, they used unmarked helicopters.


Really! Cool! Must have been in all the major newspapers and I missed it...Darn it! I never saw this story! Do you have a news item/mass media reference of some kind for this so I could find out more?

[Ike Witt]

I've heard many reports similar to hflathead's. People driving on deserted highways with black choppers following them for a short while. Other reports claim that the men in the choppers spray chemicals over the land doing biological warfare weapons testing on U.S. citizens.



This sort of activity has been going on since the late 1940's. There is a documented case about spraying an area of Minneapolis to test how fallout would move around, or so sayth the government. A number of people got sick and one school in particular had students that grew up with much higher than average instances of cancer. This was in the news including on CNN, however I have not been able to kind anything on the internet about it. I did send an email to senator Paul Wellstone's office, as of now, I haven't heard back.

[voltaire]

Do you have a news item/mass media reference of some kind for this so I could find out more?


http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/urbanwarrior/

I don't have a link, but I did remember reading somewhere that journalists had taken photos of all-black, unmarked helicopters that had landed on the beach somewhere during Operation Urban Warrior.

[carnivorousplant]

I stepped across the street to have a smoke and Marine I flew by with two black attack helicopters.
"Hey! I'm off campus! Don't shoot!"

They were of course the usual army or marine dark green, but they did appear jet black. An optical dellusion, no doubt.


Has anyone seen MC and Hunter S. Thompson at the same time?

[DougC]

Really! Cool! Must have been in all the major newspapers and I missed it...Darn it! I never saw this story! Do you have a news item/mass media reference of some kind for this so I could find out more? - astro
- - - It's no bullshit, astro; I don't have a reference, but I saw it on the news when it happened, too- this was a few years back. The television report had videotape shot by someone who lived in a high-rise, on maybe the sixth or eighth floor. The sun had just set, and the helicopters were visible enough to see that they were black with no normal aircraft markings, and were flying around in between the high-rise buildings at about the sixth-floor level. You could see streets with car traffic, gas stations, stores and the like on the ground below. - MC

[Milossarian]

Well, if I were in the military, doing training exercises in an unmarked military helicopter in a relatively remote locale, I certainly wouldn't pass on the opportunity to mess with somebody that happened by.

[Johnny L.A.]

I think if I didn't want to be noticed, I'd fly a civilian helicopter with normal markings. No one would give me a second look. People tend to notice things that are unusual, and a black heli with no markings is unusual.

Oh... I do fly a civilian helicopter with normal markings. I assure all of you I'm not up to anything covert. Take no notice. Just a normal helicopter, out for a ride. Trust me.

[Una Persson]

I personally saw and walked around two Hueys at a nearby air base that were completely unmarked - just green camo. They weren't up to anything nefarious, and were sitting out where all could see. There did not appear to be any armamments on them at all, or any other strange "canisters" or anything. And an hour later I heard both take off, and watched them go.

Now given that the topic of illegality of unmarked aircraft has been covered before, it seems that at the least they weren't legal to fly without markings, regardless of whatever else people may have been doing with them.

[Milton De La Warre]

Some military helicopters (usually US Army) are painted a matte dark green, easily mistaken for black. Also, the turbine exhaust commonly deposits sooty crap all over the after half of helicopters, making what little "subdued" markings there are on them indistinguishable. US Army helicopters have used subdues markings since the later 1960. Early in the Vietnam "experience", UH-1s and others were painted a glossy olive green with large red, white and blue "star and bars" insignia along with equally prominent "U.S. ARMY" in white, wide yellow tail rotor warning bands, yellow "rescue" arrows, etc. The VC and NVA were very thankful for being provided with such distinct aiming points. After losing quite a few helicopters and crews, this scheme was finally replaced with matte green paint and small black letters saying either "U.S. Army" or "United States Army." This was about the same time white name tapes over right breast pockets and black-edged yellow enlisted stripes disappeared from field use.

US Navy and Marine helicopters currently use (as a standard scheme)a matte grey scheme with markings in a slightly diffeent shade of grey. This includes the "star and bars" national insignia that the Army gave up in Vietnam and still hasn't revived. Between Vietnam and Desert Storm, the Marines used a very dark green and grey paint scheme which looked like hell. Some Marine UH-1s were painted in various tan and brown schemes, but it turned out that haze grey works at least as well in the desert as it does at sea.

The FBI and other assorted agencies use helicopters which are often gloss dark blue, sometimes with white roofs (called "solar caps"). These dark blue helicopters could be mistaken for black.

I believe US Customs is the only government operator of genuine flat black helicopters.


There have at times been experiments with reduced-noise helicopters. Some have been used on operational trials. I am not a helicopter engineer, but my understanding of it is that very roughly, the noise is a function of the work (lift, thrust, whatever) of the machine. You can soften the sound some, but doing so reduces the useful load and speed and so on of the machine.