A blow against Fred Phelps

[Catfood Purrito]

In this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87421) Libertarian came up with what I thought was a very good idea for striking a blow against Fred Phelps, small it may be. I've volunteered to oversee the project, which is: To let Mr. Phelps know that for every new bit of vile, hateful offal he adds to his website, http://www.godhatesfags.com, we will make a donation to an AIDS charity, perhaps Elton John's, which is at http://www.ejaf.org/donations.html.

What we need is someone to volunteer to be treasurer, and of course, lots and lots of people to donate some cash. I'll also be looking at my own budget to see how much I can allot to this venture.

I have to leave for the evening shortly, but when I get back, I'll see about setting up a website to let others know what we're doing, and to show our progress and such. I welcome any and all suggestions and ideas.

So, post your ideas and/or volunteer your time and money here, or email me!

[iampunha]

I've done html coding before and though I'm no prize I can help out with it.

Money I can also help out with. And whatever letter we send to good ol' freddy. I'm a copyeditor and an English major . . . this sort of thing is my forté.

And of course you should disregard any mistakes in this post:D

[Baker]

I live in Topeka, Kansas, which Fred calls home(much to our dismay!) If I can help some way with local coordination let me know.

[LifeOnWry]

FWIW, a local group out here in the Chicago 'burbs did something very similar with the KKK. They stood across the street from the rally and timed the marchers, letting it be known that each one of them would be donating one dollar per minute to the United Negro College Fund (IIRC, it may have been any number of other worthwhile charity organizations.) I do believe it was the city's shortest klan rally.

[Philosophocles]

How about if we send him to Afghanistan? I'm sure he would love the Taliban's policy on homosexuality.

[Atreyu]

I suspect Phelps is enough of a prude that he would object to his name being used in the same sentence as the word "blow". :D

[MsRobyn]

I hate to be a spoilsport, but I'd clear any use of the name Straight Dope with the Chicago Reader first. Phelps is fairly well-funded and may not have a problem with suing.

Robin

[Daowajan]

I think that's a wonderful idea. Maybe you could set up a portion of it like thehungersite.com used to have that thing where you'd click and the corporations that sponsored it would donate money.

"If the name Fred Phelps makes your guts boil, click here."

Ask around to some companies after you have the site set up. I bet you'd get plenty of support in many ways.

[friedo]

Might I also suggest the American Civil Liberties Union, Americans United for the Seperation of Church and State, and the National Organization of Women.

[Liberal]

Yep, I'm on board. I hope this hits thread spotting (if for no other reason than to replace the racist thread about the unfortunate Koreans).

Mishell, for what it's worth, I think Philosophocles offered a tweak that is an administrative improvement.

How about if people started to donate a penny/nickel/dime to gay rights organizations for every 10 or 100 or 1000 hits at GodHatesFags.com? Send a petition around getting a bunch of people to pledge to this cause and send a copy to Phelps to let him know that every time someone accesses his website, gay rights organizations will be rewarded with donations.

Reading the hit counter (subtracting your own hit for the read) will be objective and formulaic.

[Baker]

There are any number of worthy AIDS groups that donations could go to but, since Fred lives in Topeka, Kansas, might I be so bold as to suggest the Topeka AIDS Project? The address is 708 SW 6th Ave, Topeka, Kansas, 66603.

Notice the zip code? That's one of the reasons Fred says Topeka(along with everyone else) is doomed. Our ip codes begin with 666.

[Liberal]

Unbelievable.

To think that a man is so infatuated with himself, he believes that the trifling place he occupies is the object of John's great vision. What a moron. It is to laugh. Ha.

[Baker]

As you can see from my earlier post of 7:02AM I have been on the boards very recently. I got off the computer then went outside to pick up my Sunday paper(the Topeka Capital-Journal) The lead editorial was the following, and I ask you all PLEASE to read it.

http://cjonline.com/stories/091601/opi_nohate.shtml

As I have mentioned in other threads I've long been actively opposed to Fred but lately nobody has done much because we ARE all so tired. I think this guy Jared has me inspired again. I truly don't want to hate Fred, a real Christian doesn't hate anyone, and recently I actually made a resolution to try and pray for him. But if and when someone organizes another counter event I will dust off the old signs of our own and go. I saw the news coverage of the rally mentioned in the above editorial but the station was very clever, and didn't mentione Fred at all. Now that may seem to be tailoring the news, but I'll bet it stuck in Fred's craw not to get noticed that night.

[Arden Ranger]

Ha! Jared is on my hero list!

Sign me up for whatever is needed. I have had a deep disgust for Phelps for as long as I can remember.

[manhattan]

I'm in for $1,000 of seed money once someone has everthing all set up.

[Kat]

I can put up some money, I'm sure.

[Liberal]

I'm seeing a whole list of heros today. Thank you all for giving a damn and actually doing something about it.

As for Phelps and his demons, I think this is appropriate:

Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

— Jesus (Mark 7:6)

[ultrafilter]

I'm liking this idea...:)

[Daowajan]

Originally posted by MsRobyn
I hate to be a spoilsport, but I'd clear any use of the name Straight Dope with the Chicago Reader first.

Why not get your own site then?

[Tuckerfan]

I don't know if this could be thought of as premeditated murder ;), but how about for every time Phelps announces that he's raised 'X' amount of money, we agree to donate one of those "My Two Daddy's" type books to a school library? Surely, that'll cause Phelps to have a stroke! (Hence, the premediated murder ;). ) Anyways, I'll kick in some dough once you've got the thing up and running.

[iampunha]

Originally posted by Tuckerfan
I don't know if this could be thought of as premeditated murder ;), but how about for every time Phelps announces that he's raised 'X' amount of money, we agree to donate one of those "My Two Daddy's" type books to a school library? Surely, that'll cause Phelps to have a stroke! (Hence, the premediated murder ;). )

And the first one can be donated to a school in Topeka. make it big ol' news:D

Do we have any journalists or other newsmedia people in or near Tokepa who can . . . ah . . . alert the general public as to the existence/idea of this website and its ideas?

[Liberal]

We need a treasurer volunteer! Gaudere? Polycrap? Trish? anyone?

[Liberal]

Merciful God. :o My kingdom for an edit button. I'm very very sorry, Polycarp.

[Baker]

I live in Topeka! What do you want me to do? I'm not in the media business though, but my second cousin is an anchor on one of the local TV stations. I could give Amy a call. Let me know! And I already wrote two letters to the editor, and one of them was this charity idea, although, to my shame, I did not mention the Straight Dope. However, if they call me about printing that letter, I'll add that info. Anything else you want? How about sending emails to all three stations? Would that help?

[deepbluesea]

I've been lurking lately, but I'm in. I can code, write, donate, whatever.

Btw, the books idea is a tough one; donating is different from guaranteeing that it gets in the collection, and libraries have often been targets of thefts and reprisals for collection items like this. You'd have to confirm that each individual library was willing and able to be involved.

My suggestion: pick a nationwide group that fights Phelps or the people who think like him. The Human Rights Committee? Or a rotating group of national gay and lesbian organizations? Make sure to talk to them first about this idea - not only will it guarantee good publicity, but it is only fair to them. And that way, we will be able to use their name and link to them and so on on the website.

I like this idea - turning hate to good.

[Catfood Purrito]

I had some technical difficulties that prevented me from getting online and checking on this thread.

This is great! Checking his counter instead of monitoring the site is a much better idea.

As Libertarian mentioned, we still need a treasurer...

I have 20 mb of web space coming from my ISP which I am not using, so I could put the web site there. I've never made a web site before, aside from an incredibly lame personal page a few years ago, but I have a friend who does some web design so I was going to see if I could enlist his help, but he doesn't seem to be answering his email this weekend...
I like the idea of donating to the Topeka AIDS Project.

[iampunha]

Um, not to toot my own horn, Mishell, but the angelfire page I have still has about 95 percent of its 50 meg alottment to play with. So we could use that for something, I hope:)

[deepbluesea]

Might it be a good idea to set up an email list for planning and discussion?

[Baker]

Why not just make it REALLY simple and have folks post here the addresses and names of worthy organizations? Folks could then just give as they saw fit. About the only worker we would need would be someone to validate the organizations, someone to check yellow pages and such to make sure that the group is really there. I already posted about the Topeka AIDS Project, you can validate that in our phone book. Then we wouldn't have to worry about delayed snail mail, checks, or the security of credit card numbers. Oh, and to send your notice to Fred, his address is Fred Phelps, c/o Westboro Baptist Church, 3701 SW 12th, Topeka, Kansas 66604. Let us know if Phreddie sends YOU back a response! And be sure to reference the Straight Dope when you make your donation.

[psychogumby]

Looks like someone else has started a similar site.

http://www.godhatesphelps.com/Fundraiser.htm


(you gotta LOVE that URL :D)

[Shirley Ujest]

The pure genuis of donating money in Fred Phelps' name & church is that the "junk" mail (future donation pleas) will go directly to his church.

Allow me to be the first to say, " HA!"

[yosemite]

Did anyone see, Phelps has started http://www.godhatesamerica.com ? He is pure evil. He writes:It's a sin now to pray for America's good

That has got to be the most blasphemous thing I've ever read. He also suggests displaying the American Flag upside down.

This man is pure evil, on so many levels.

[Liberal]

Okay, Mishell, whassit gonna be? Time to gell everything together and issue marching orders!

[iampunha]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
He writes:It's a sin now to pray for America's good

That has got to be the most blasphemous thing I've ever read. He also suggests displaying the American Flag upside down.

I read a short bio of him . . . turns out that in a way he lied in his "interview" (the question-answer part of his becoming a priest) in becoming a pastor . . . he believes that if you don't get approval of your pastor before leaving your church, you're banished to Hell.

Or he believes that it's a mighty convenient way of making people stay with you.

I also found out that in a way he's worse even than my grandfather, though I don't want to be the one to do the comparative essay.

The guy is nuts. I no longer take anything he says seriously. Probably for the best.

[RickJay]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
This man is pure evil, on so many levels.

Fred Phelps is as crazy as a shithouse rat. He's also as gay as a lord, it seems obvious to me. (Not that those two things are connected.) If ever you needed evidence that homophobes are really closeted homosexuals, Fred Phelps is it. I'm certain that in the dark recesses of his mind, he loves the Village People, Babs, and professional wrestling.

[Catfood Purrito]

I'm very sorry, but something came up this weekend with my family that will not allow me to spend as much time on this as I'd hoped.

I apologize, it was very, very unexpected, and I'd feel I was doing you all a disservice by continuing to attempt to organize this when I unfortunately don't have enough time to devote to it.

I still would like very much to be involved and contribute money if we do get this up and going, though.

Once again, I'm very sorry.

[Jane D'oh!]

If this does get off the ground, I can treasure. I have safe deposit boxes at work and can set up an account to hold the funds in etc. Just let me know.

[Liberal]

Will anyone volunteer to lead?

I know only a small handful of the people here, especially in this forum. Perhaps we can have a nomination process, and someone with the time will step forward.

This is too important to let it slide away. If we drop this ball, we should shut up about Phelps forevermore.

[deepbluesea]

It was your idea, Libertarian, so probably you should get first refusal at leadership. If you won't or can't, then we need someone who is committed, organized, energetic, and who has a little time. (The organizer will have lots of help, seems like, so lots of time shouldn't be necessary.) I'm not very organized, so I'm out, but I do really want to see this go forward. It's so nice to have a chance to do something.

I will happily provide the organizer with information about and help with non-profits and the like, since that is my field, and we have people who know about finance, web design, writing, all that. We just need someone to put it together. Takers?

[Liberal]

When I originally brought it up (due to someone saying "I wish there was something we could do about Phelps") I waived off leadership due to time constraints. Our company is not doing well, and I'm pretty much working around the clock to help save it.

We all can help in some way, but we just need a person to oversee it all. Maybe the thread just isn't prominent or popular enough for whoever would be the leader to see. Then again, maybe it's something else...

[Liberal]

Well, I made an appeal to Exprix in a Pit thread. We'll see. I truly believe that he has just the spunk and drive to see a project like this through. Whether he has the time, maybe we'll know shortly.

[Ashtar]

Umm...there's not much I can offer up, being a poor wannabe college student, and all...

But I have a friend who hates Phelps just as much as all of us--and could probably provide all the webspace that's needed. (He has a domain registered on a computer out of his hosue.)

If it comes down to that--somebody drop me an email and I can put you in touch with him.

-Ashley

[Esprix]

I have a PayPal account - perhaps an easy way to get donations?

What would be entailed in such a project?

A website
Advertising/PR
A way to input funds
A way to track his hit counter
A way to disperse funds

What am I forgetting?

Esprix

[Liberal]

Wonderful! A melancholy temperament! Esprix, you are exactly what we need!

A website

Yes. There, we can do our reporting. I'm a professional web developer, and I can contribute style sheets, templates, and so forth. Plus, I think we can figure out a way that we could host the database itself on our W2000 server. That way, we could use Access or SQLServer with ASP. Reporting and accounting would then be pretty simple. I can design and maintain the database and the pages that access it.

Someone above said they have about 90 meg of space. If we can afford it, it would be nice to have our own domain hosted by someone like Innerhost. In any event, there isn't any reason why we can't daisy-chain multiple servers if necessary calling and posting data wherever people will agree to host us.

Advertising/PR

Can someone out there help on this? A big part of this might be securing free hosting with our own domain name. Of course, if I'm to be of any use, the server will have to be Windows 2000 (or NT) with Microsoft IIS.

A way to input funds

I can write that so long as it's VBScript in ASP. I just need the data elements required by PayPal. We could also record pledges and generate automatic follow-ups on them.

A way to track his hit counter

That's easy. Just assign someone to check it each morning. Alternatively, if it's just text data, I can write a program that will automatically read it every, oh say, half-hour or so, and calculate the funds needed.

A way to disperse funds

I would assign that to your treasurer. We can open a checking account for the purpose. I wouldn't commit it to complete electronic transfer yet since many causes might not be capable of handling it.

-----

I guess the only thing left out that I can think of is how to decide who gets the funds and in what proportions. But if you're the chief, then you decide how that will be worked out.

You have a lot of people here willing and able to help. Some with talent. Some with money. Some with time. And some with a little of all of those. It's really a big job, but I think that together, under your leadership, we can do it!

[iampunha]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Someone above said they have about 90 meg of space. If we can afford it, it would be nice to have our own domain hosted by someone like Innerhost. In any event, there isn't any reason why we can't daisy-chain multiple servers if necessary calling and posting data wherever people will agree to host us.

I have a 50 meg site at geocities and I am currently using 1.5 megs of that.

I estimate that in a year or so I may be using as much as 5 megs.

That leaves 40+ for your disposal. I can write the pages if you give me the basics, I can find text, find pictures, and I can write semi-cogently.

Give me something to do:D

[Esprix]

[looks left]

[looks right]

[scratches head]

When, exactly, did I get drafted?

;)

Esprix

I hate being the responsible one!

[Esprix]

Random thoughts/to do:

Web content
Filing non-profit status
Board?
Who decides where the money goes?

Esprix

[Coldfire]

From http://www.godhatesamerica.com/
A Message To The Nation In The Wake Of The World Trade Center/Pentagon Tragedy - The Rod Of God Hath Smitten Fag America!Heh. Fred said "Rod". ;)

What and idjit. Will you guys take MasterCard?

[Esprix]

Is it me, or does he just use the word "fag" way too much?

Kinda creepy...

Esprix

[Francesca]

I'll help if I can - I got plenty of time.

A quick thought - once Phelps gets wind of this, could he just remove his hit counter? Would that thwart everything?

[Arden Ranger]

Well, he could, but I think he's probably to vain needs to know how many hits he gets.

[bdgr]

Originally posted by Esprix
Is it me, or does he just use the word "fag" way too much?

Kinda creepy...

Esprix


Nah....Its just you. He uses the word "fag" exactly the right amount.

Just enough to be cute and and endearing.....and to come across as a total nutjob


I checked and godhatesfred.com and godhatesphelps.com are both taken. Maybe .org?


The following are available
godhatesnone.com
godhatesnoone.com
godoesnthate.com


I think any of these would be good

[tisiphone]

I think godoesnthate.com is my favorite choice...

[Baker]

I know how much this means to everybody, but like I said on an earlier post in this thread, why not just have folks make their own donations individually, send Fred the notice they did it, and then post about it. We could post addresses of groups we thought worthy of donations, and if anyone gets a flaming from Fred after they tell him about their donation, it would make for well reading here. This way there would be less fuss and effort. Tell you what, I will start it off by making a donation to the Topeka Aids Project. I will notify Fred by snail mail( I don't want him to get my email address if I can help it) I'm sure to get SOME sort of reaction, because they used to see me at two different churches and called me the "Church Whore" The moniker meant, so they hollered at me, that I didn't know where I wanted to do my spiritual fornicating. Hmmm, didn't know as that was spiritual. I already wrote a leter to the editor of our paper, but with so much mail it may not get published. Hold my hand, after being out of the protest circuit for so long, bearding Freddie like this makes me nervous. Should I tell him where I got the idea?

[Helen's Eidolon]

I'm here and willing to help. I'm not gonna volunteer for a major position as I'm just not responsible enough, but I can do some HTML and JavaScript, I have quite a bit of time and a credit card. :)

I think PR/Advertising shouldn't be too hard, just time consuming. This seems to me exactly the kind of "human interest" story a lot of newspapers would love to run.

This is such a great idea.

How are we going to only donate according to the amount of hits? I mean, if someone comes in and wants to donate 100$, are we gonna stop them 'cause he hasn't gotten enough hits for it?

[bdgr]

Originally posted by Baker
I know how much this means to everybody, but like I said on an earlier post in this thread, why not just have folks make their own donations individually, send Fred the notice they did it, and then post about it.

Personally, I like the idea of fred knowing that every hatefull action he does, contributing to the enemy cause directely.

[Arden Ranger]

Oh, he'd know. Usually when a donation is made to a charity in a third person's name, they get a card in the mail that says "A donation has been made in your name to The National AIDS Foundation" or something like that.

Fred would get mail from all these AIDS charities and Gay Rights groups. The mailman would get a good laugh. :)

[bdgr]

I was thinking of the idea of tying each donation to an action of his though. So that he knew that whenever he posted a new article, he was directly contributing to the other side, or whenever he reached a certain number of hits etc. A concrete cause and effect that even his pathetic disturbed little mind could understand...

[Arden Ranger]

Press releases sent to the Topeka newspaper?

[DMC]

Other than the above mentioned domain names, I've found several others that have .com, .net., and .org available. FredFightsAids, for instance.

I'll donate the domain names (all three suffixes, if available) for two years.

Can we get some legal advice on this as it moves forward? As a potential domain registrar, I don't have a lot of time to spend in court, and we know he likes litigation as much as he hates America. :D

[Baker]

For those interested, the address of the Topeka paper is:

Topeka Capital-Journal
616 SE Jefferson
Topeka, Kansas 66607

A list of email contacts for different departments at the paper may be found here:

http://www.cjonline.com/contactus.shtml

[Liberal]

If he were to remove his hit counter, we can always go back to the original idea of a donation for each new addition to his page. If he stops updating his page, then we've won.

Esprix, did you accept or what?

[John Corrado]

Consider me accepting the Lib challenge. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=88186)

I see someone else has already volunteered for treasurer, and Esprix has been drafted as President (fine choice); let me know what you would need of me money/time wise.

[pldennison]

I unfortunately cannot contribute any time for leadership as much as I would like to, especially since I will be out of the country for three weeks in November. But I will gladly be an ongoing contributor of money for this effort.

I don't dislike Baker's idea, but I think a concerted effort concentrating on a few select organizations would make more impact. May I humbly suggest three:

The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) (http://www.glaad.org/org/index.html)

the American Foundation for AIDS Research (amFAR) (http://www.amfar.org/cgi-bin/iowa/index.html)

the National Association of State and Territorial AIDS Directors (http://www.nastad.org/)

These three organizations combat everything that Phelps stands for: they fight defamation of homosexuals, provide research for AIDS treatment, and provide health care for AIDS sufferers. I would suggest that all money be divided between these three groups, either split equally each time or on a rotating basis.

[El Zagna]

Count me in.

I do worry about using his counter as a guide for anything. I understand that most counters can be fudged, reset, or set to any number, and I don't think we can trust ol' Freddy to not cheat. Just something to think about.

[bdgr]

Ok, I like the godoesnthate.com. I would register it myself and pay for it, but I am laid up and unable to work for a month or so, so money is tight. I would be glad to do anything to help that I can.

I think gearing donatioins off of additions to his web site would be best. The hit counter can be screwed with, and he has no controll over how many people he gets. But if he knows that each addition/update he does to his page screws him a little more, Its gotta bug him a bit.

[SisterCoyote]

Add me to the list of those willing to help.

I do some web design, and I have a freeservers account that I'm not using at all right now that we can use for space if we need it. I'm also a student at a Lutheran University in CA, and my roommate is a Journalism instructor who has connections (I think) to the Los Angeles Times.

FTR, I like goddoesnthate.com too.

[Liberal]

I've developed a database to help Esprix organize the effort. You can access the data here:

Phelps Watch (http://www.ourdawson.com/phelps/phelps_watch.asp)

Bookmark and refresh often. I'm entering the data live as I see the offers being posted here.

[Liberal]

Those who have pledged money, please indicate an amount. If you prefer not to do that on the board, contact a moderator. I hereby give them blanket permission to forward the information to me. (Be sure to indicate the user name.)

[Just-Drew]

Instead of elton john's aids foundation how bout naming a few other organizations besides those that are political in nature, ACLU, etc.
Ones that actually help fund for disease research, etc.

Also, maybe split the money between a few organizations, preferably ones that don' spend alot on advertising, meanig more of the money goes to actually fund research.
Maybe adding something like "feed the children" and red cross to the list of non profits that benefit from the proceeds.

Also i have the ability to do the webpages necessary for the organization you want to start. I suggest purchasing a domain name instead of people having to go to
http://www.earthlink.com/members/homewebpages/libertarian/helporganization/home.html
you get my point

it ads an air of, well professionalism, having your own domain name.

Also I would like to make the point, how much are you willing to put on advertising?
For people to find the site, they have to know about it.
Some search engines charge money for placement, etc.

[Liberal]

Did you see Phil's post? He made 3 excellent recommendations, wouldn't you agree?

[Arden Ranger]

Since currently no one in my house is working, I will donate what I can when I can.

I would offer to do more but I know how unorganized I am.

[Liberal]

Thanks, Arden. Your offer's in the database now.

[Liberal]

Oops! I meant to show my new sig!

[bagkitty]

I heartily approve of everyone's enthusiasm... such a show of good will is appreciated BUT (really wish I didn't have to include a but in this thread) has anyone given thought to the fact that this is going to generate precisely the kind of media coverage that bastard thrives on?

He is insane, and in his warped world the old saw "any attention is good attention" applies more than it would to a normal person. I fear that by doing what you are suggesting, you are going to nourish his insanity. Now, if the idea is simply to raise funds and do good, you are on the right track, but if you thinking you are going to give him even a moment of doubt about what he says and does, you are deluding yourself...

If you are really interested in doing something that would annoy him, strike back as it were, you are going to have to take the twisted route of initially generating more publicity than he already gets, but turning around its emphasis 180 degrees.

The rat bastard is always issuing proclamations about how he and his band of loonies is going to picket events or places. His proclamations are somehow considered newsworthy, and give him the publicity he desires. What is fascinating is how often he and his followers are complete no-shows... but that (if covered at all) is always played up less in the media. What is needed is a lobbying effort on the media to not only make note of this, but to ignore his original proclamation in the first place... to only report on his no-shows... The story is that not only is he a crazy rat bastard, but that he is a cowardly crazy rat bastard.

If you decide to go through with what you have been talking about though, you have my best wishes, I just quibble about the strategy.

[deepbluesea]

I like pldennison's choices of organizations. Someone should call them, speak to either the director of development, the PR director, or the gifts manager, and explain what we're doing and why. ("Hi, I'm calling on behalf of FredLovesFags (or whatever), which is a new internet organization set up to ensure that Fred Phelps' hateful words turn directly into good deeds. To that end, we are going to be donating money [in Fred's name?] for [every mod to his website, every hit on his counter] to major charities fighting gay and lesbian defamation and AIDS. Would you be interested in being one of our charities? We would like to be able to name your organization in our press releases and link to your website on our own.") Something like that.

Also, I can easily write a basic press release (unless we have a true PR person on board) that we can use, with minor modifications, both to send to news outlets and to interested parties.

Esprix, would you like me to start looking at what it would take to get non-profit status, or would you rather do that? I warn you, it will be hard; I've been involved with two NPOs during or right after they got NPO status, and it takes a lot of work. It is also very much worth it.

Incidentally, I do like bagkitty's idea of keeping an eye on what he does and publicizing his no-shows just as much as his presence always is; since we'll be monitoring his website anyway, it should be fairly easy (assuming he posts the info there) to check to see where he's claiming he'll be, and then call that place to see if he's actually been there.

[Arden Ranger]

I think we can probably get free banner space on some of the gay rights websites once someone has writes up a nice letter explaining what we're doing.

[Jonathan Chance]

Fuck it, I'm in. $250 towards the cause when this gets off the ground.

AND I'll think it would be a good idea to have BOTH the counter/post dollar thing and to encourage people to make private donations in Fred's name to various worthy causes. It's best he knows it.

Um. heh heh heh

I just thought how much joy he'd get out of having a hundred sent to ACT UP. Are they still around?

Ooo...

I may have to do that.

[Jonathan Chance]

And I don't feel a need to mask myself here. Put me on Fight Hate site as Nate Wooley. That's my name and dammit I'm proud to fight the good fight.

[Juniper200]

I'm in. I can't take a firm stance moneywise right now. I'll contribute, but I don't know how much I can afford. If any manpower is still needed, I can copy edit and write. I've done press releases in the past. I spent the summer as a PR intern for a charity on Long Island primarily interested in funding efforts for kids with AIDS, so I might be able to dredge up some contacts from there if any of them might be useful.

[SFCanadian]

Hey, I'm in!

I used to be quite involved in AIDS work in Canada, and did a ton of media work... I'm not bad with sound bytes, helping with media releases, etc...

But if that isn't needed, I could throw in a bit of money... It's a bit tight around here, but I'm sure I could find $100 to offset costs...

I have always been from the "old school", and think that the organizations which get money should be to AIDS organizations to give money directly to People with AIDS, like the National Persons with AIDS Coalition, and Gay rights organizations, like the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund...

I really feel that orgs like Save the Children, and AMFAR do just fine getting funding already...

SFCanadian

[Tuckerfan]

I'll kick in $20 and how about Gays-vs-Phelps.org for a url?

Once we get this thing up and running, someone needs to let NPR know. They tend to eat stuff like this up.

[iampunha]

I've just been working on a mission statement of sorts for our page . . . should I email it to someone? I don't really want to post it on here; it quotes some of his webpage and I'd rather not drop shit directly on the MPSIMS floor unless I must.

[Arden Ranger]

I think we need a mailing list. Like Yahoo groups or something for things like this.

Maybe?

[Catfood Purrito]

I'm in for $100.

Also, I have experience in dealing with people over the phone, I've been a telemarketer, phone psychic (hey, it paid well), and secretary. So, if anyone is needed to make or field phone calls, I could do that. I work nights, so I have some time during the day.

[Liberal]

Thanks, everyone. All the new information is in.

I'm trying to make contact with Esprix. I'll keep you posted on the effort to recruit him to lead this cause.

I've updated the page a bit to show the total pledges and to give a bit of info about what we're doing. Also, I've laid in an ASP template so we can take donations online when we're ready to go.

But first, we need a leader.

[Liberal]

I have made an impassioned appeal in the Pit for a leader. Wish me luck. Strike that. Wish this cause luck. What a shame if Phelps is allowed to continue his mockery of both God and man.

[Angel of the Lord]

Hey...I can pledge 20 bucks. I know that's not a lot...I'm sorry. I have lots of time, though, so if there's anything you need me to do (Email lists, writing, proofreading, webpages, general publicity...hell, anything, as long as it isn't grossly illegal), I'm game. I'm an English major, and I post on other MBs that might be sympathetic to this cause. . .so I might be able to help there.

[Esprix]

I'm still considering if I have the time for this or not. The support, however, is encouraging.

Esprix

[manhattan]

Originally posted by Angel of the Lord
I know that's not a lot...I'm sorry.

You're wrong. It is a lot. $10 from a struggling student is more than a thou from a bond trader.

Thank you for your help.

[Liberal]

Okay, Angel, you're in! Click my sig, and you can see your name. God bless you for what you've done. Manny is right.

Esprix, with all due respect, if you, of all people, don't have time for this, given the resources and help at your disposal, given the very nature of the project, given the broad support for your leadership — if you don't make time for this, then it is a trivial cause after all.

[Liberal]

Dammit. The sig. (Why must this default to unchecked, even when you've checked the stupid box before previewing?)

[LifeOnWry]

Please put me down for a one-time 25.00 donation to help get started (and please also tell me where to send it!) You may use my real name, Juli McCarthy. When details are hammered out, I will be glad to participate. As far as I can tell, no one's got a definite plan here in terms of how much money goes where under which circumstances, so let me please to pose this suggestion:

Once we agree on a charitable organization (or organizations) we each pledge a certain dollar amount for each time Phelps posts an update to his site. For instance - we each pledge a dollar or two per update. If there is one update per week and there are 50 of us, that's $50 per week to the organization we selected. It all adds up, no? And it's not a huge sacrifice for each of us individuals this way. Some cannot afford to make large donations, and should not have to feel as though they cannot participate because they can't participate big.

Also, we need someone whose job it is to inform the rest of us when there has been an update to Phelps' site.

I also volunteer to write this effort up for publication when the details are set. I can't promise publication in any major magazine, but I can do a bit to get word out.

[Nocturne]

I don't know how much money I will be able to contribute just yet since I'm a starving college student, but I'll contribute whatever I can.

Also, if you need me to write up anything or spread the word, I can do that.

[Liberal]

Thank you, Juli! Your name is in the database. As soon as we have a leader, such details as you ask about will be worked out.

NOTICE

The best thing all of you could do at this point in time is go out and recruit us a leader. (I made an appeal in the Pit that has pretty much fallen on deaf ears. Screw 'em.) Heck, it doesn't have to be someone with Straight Dope. It just has to be someone with the time and will to make a firm commitment and then carry it out with all deliberate speed and diligence.

So, find us a leader!

[Liberal]

WE HAVE A LEADER!!!!!!!!

John Corrado, leader extraordinaire, has volunteered in no uncertain terms!

Here we go, folks! It's gonna be quite a ride!

[Liberal]

Thanks, Nocturne! You're in.

[Arden Ranger]

All hail, John Corrado!!

[pldennison]

Whoops--I realized I forgot to mention an amount. Please put me in for $100, and use my real name.

Also, should we wish to put out a press release, since that is exactly what my company does, I will foot the bill for the $100 membership for an account (under the name of whatever domain we decide on) and for one press release. (If we send it, for example, to our Kansas circuit, it would cost $100 for a 400-word press release, and reach not only all the newspapers, radio and TV stations in Kansas, but also the AP, UPI, Reuters, AOL, Yahoo!, Excite, and hundreds of other wire services, print and online outlets.)

[Liberal]

Wow, Phil, that's truly awesome! (I wasn't sure how to write up your resource offer, so if you could check that out on the Phelps Watch chart and correct me, if necessary, that'd be great.) Thank you!

[John Corrado]

Okay, folks, here we go.


Let me warn you in advance: I know next to nothing about technical matters, such as setting up a web page or getting a domain name. Consider me a Pointy-Haired Boss in terms of that.

On the other hand, I was involved in trying to set up a Not-For-Profit organization in the state of Virginia years ago. So I still have some friends and contacts in that endeavor, and can hopefully get this thing set up as a real, honest-to-God NPO. The kind you can write off donations to.

Jane D'oh!- you offered to be treasurer. What state are you located in? If it's not Virginia, we may have to do some research on how to specifically set up an NPO in that state- what kind of charter is necessary, etc. I'd prefer to set up the Phelpswatch bank account in a bank located close to you for ease of deposit (so we don't have to do a "send checks to the Treasurer, who sends them to someone else, who mails them to Gumby the Depositor); likely, that means turning this into a real NPO means setting it up by the laws of which state you reside in.

People with web knowledge- I've seen some good ideas on domain names which are open. Could anyone who knows how to do a search find out if either of the following are available: godhatesaids.com, and phelpswatch.com? Thanks!

People with money to donate- give us some time to set up a real account for the money to be sent to, but we'll announce it here.

People with time and/or media skills to donate- find out who to contact with press releases regarding our creation. Obviously, we don't want to actually say anything until we get a domain name and a bank account, but once we do, we want to try and make a splash of attention.


Again, thank you all for your time, your interest, and your donations. While things get set up, it'll be pretty quiet; but once we're ready to roll, we'll need all the enthusiasm and stomach (hey, someone will have to actually read Phelps' site to keep track) we can muster.

[Esprix]

Ah, seems I took too long deliberating (I was unaware I was under a time restraint). Congratulations, John.

Originally posted by Libertarian

Esprix, with all due respect, if you, of all people, don't have time for this, given the resources and help at your disposal, given the very nature of the project, given the broad support for your leadership — if you don't make time for this, then it is a trivial cause after all.

Oh, dear. For this, Lib, I'm afraid I might have to meet you in The Pit... :(

Esprix

[Arden Ranger]

I'll start on a list of contacts for press releases. Time, I have in abundance.

[Liberal]

Esprix

Let it go. For the sake of the cause. Anything I said or did was for the purpose of giving this the push it needs. I love you and respect you very much.

John

I checked DirectNic, and godhatesaids.com and phelpswatch.com are both available!

[pldennison]

Re: Press releases

As I mentioned, I'll gladly pay to have one sent out over my own company's wire, in the name of whatever domain/NPO name we choose. Sending it out to the Kansas wire, we would hit all the media detailed here (http://www.businesswire.com/bwusa/national.shtml#kansas#kansas), here (http://www.businesswire.com/ps/ps-usc-web.html), here (http://www.businesswire.com/ps/ps-usc-disclosure.html), and whatever categories we want from here (http://www.businesswire.com/ps/ps-usc-trademedia.html).

Esprix, I implore you not to take Lib to the Pit. I'm certain he meant what he said with respect. Is it something that could be handled via e-mail?

[LifeOnWry]

Thank you, John Corrado.

Um, having looked at the database, may I make one more small suggestion? You have bolded "on behalf of Westboro Baptist Church". I venture to suggest that this phrase can be utterly misconstrued on the part of the charities and possibly the media... and could possibly garner support from unknowing individuals FOR Phelps. I think we need a more specific statement noting that our contributions are a response to the hate he has spewed. I realize and appreciate the delicious irony in donating to these causes in his name, however, now that this is out of the realm of the ether and about to be a reality, we can do a lot more good than just irony. Perhaps something along the lines of "on behalf of the victims of The Westboro Baptist Church's hate speech"? Thoughts?

[manhattan]

I'd like to suggest that in addition to PLDennison's fine list we add a local charity. I'd like one of the outcomes here to help those Topekans who have to put up with his idiocy on a regular basis to know that they are not alone.

I can testify first hand how much it means to have someone come from out of town to lend a hand.

However, I am also aware of the danger of over-diluting contributions. It'd be a pity to be sending each charity a teeny-tiny check.

Thoughts?

[Liberal]

Whichever way John says is fine with me. The page is only temporary anyway until he assigns a server. (I can do only ASP.) But if people give money thinking they are helping Phelps to hate, so much the better! It isn't the irony that matters, but the fact of where the money is going.

[Liberal]

That makes sense to me, Manny. In fact, Baker has already offered to contact the local (Topeka) newspaper. He has connections there.

[LifeOnWry]

But if people give money thinking they are helping Phelps to hate, so much the better! It isn't the irony that matters, but the fact of where the money is going.

No, no, no that's not what I meant! What I meant was, people might see a donation as coming FROM the Westboro Baptist Church and think "see, those people aren't really that bad, look, they're giving money to a good cause" which could dilute the seriousness with which they should take this kind of hate speech. The press may cover it as "Phelps' change of heart" and good gravy, THAT could lead to problems. I agree that the money going to a good cause is what matters. I think, though, that it is important to be very obvious about what we're doing and why.

[Liberal]

Oh, I see. Good point. I imagine all that will be cleared up soon. In the meantime, I've changed Phelps Watch per your specifications. See if it's more to your liking.

[Arden Ranger]

Originally posted by pldennison
Re: Press releases

As I mentioned, I'll gladly pay to have one sent out over my own company's wire, in the name of whatever domain/NPO name we choose. Sending it out to the Kansas wire, we would hit all the media detailed here (http://www.businesswire.com/bwusa/national.shtml#kansas#kansas), here (http://www.businesswire.com/ps/ps-usc-web.html), here (http://www.businesswire.com/ps/ps-usc-disclosure.html), and whatever categories we want from here (http://www.businesswire.com/ps/ps-usc-trademedia.html).

Holy hell! That's quite a list!

There were a few other places I thought of I didn't see. Not many, mind you!

I'll work on the contact info for the ones I didn't see.

[LifeOnWry]

Much better, thanks :)

Now, I am off to find someone who knows something about making links, so I can be sure to stick one wherever I go.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

Manhattan, I had to rub my eyes. $1,000. You're a mensch.

Things are tight around the Cranky Household, or I'd offer more, but please put me down for $20. More if things improve. I have no time to offer, alas, and my coding skills bite. But a little cash to help get you started, I am in for.

May I also take a moment to say I love the way RickJay words things.

[Arden Ranger]

Oh, hey.

I was telling a friend of mine in radio advertising about this earlier and they brought up a point.

Who wants to be the contact person? The one that people can call/email with questions or, more specificly, interviews?

[Jack Batty]

I've been a little busy and I haven't popped into this thread yet.

I'd like to say that I think this is the noble-est of causes and I hope Phelps gets wind of it and has a coronary.

Alas, I am in no feduciary position to contribute money, and my computer skills are pretty much limited figuring out vB code. But I offer my moral support as well as my time if there is anything I can do (I don't know what it may be, but if it's a matter of signing petitions, attending local demonstrations, forwarding emails or whatever - I'm in). Even so, I think I should be used as back up as I anticipate great upheaval in my future (moving - finding new work - personal stuff I shant go into - and the like).

I can only hope this post is taken in the spirit in which it is intended - one of support and not of whining. That really is the best I can do at the moment.
for more on the story, go find it yourself in the Pit

[Liberal]

Okay, Cranky, you're in. You too, Batty! Thanks for coming in! You're doing something good.

[Esprix]

Originally posted by Arden Ranger

Who wants to be the contact person? The one that people can call/email with questions or, more specificly, interviews?

There should probably be more than one person doing this, but this might be right up my alley (to coin a phrase). I was also going to offer to help with writing and/or web content, 'cause I talk too much and I wryt reel gud.

(For anyone who cares, my grievance was handled in the Pit.)

Esprix

[Liberal]

Okay, I have to stop and fix my wife's supper. I'll come back and catch up on entering anyone who comes in. Thank you all!

[Esprix]

Oh, and I'd donate money, but I'm broke and will be for the forseeable future. :(

Esprix

[Balance]

I can't spare much time from other obligations, but I can spare some cash. I'm in for $100 to start with.

Might I suggest that we contact the OCRT (http://www.religioustolerance.org) about posting an article/links when we're ready to go? I think they'd be happy to hear about this.

[Arden Ranger]

Originally posted by Esprix
There should probably be more than one person doing this, but this might be right up my alley (to coin a phrase). I was also going to offer to help with writing and/or web content, 'cause I talk too much and I wryt reel gud.

So far most of the places I have contacted are headquartered in California so you would be perfect!

['course, you knew that already ;)]

Drop me an email and let me know what info you want me to give out.

John? This work for you?

[redtail23]

Unfortunately, I'm short on everything right now - money, time, sanity. :( I will check back later when I have more to give, though.

Originally posted by John Corrado
I'd prefer to set up the Phelpswatch bank account in a bank located close to you for ease of deposit (so we don't have to do a "send checks to the Treasurer, who sends them to someone else, who mails them to Gumby the Depositor); likely, that means turning this into a real NPO means setting it up by the laws of which state you reside in.[/B]
You might check into a lockbox. I'm sure the fees will depend on the bank & location, but it does resolve the 'who makes deposits?' problem. [A lockbox is a PO box mailing address that goes directly to the bank. The bank deposits all payments and forwards payment information to you for doing the books.] Maybe some socially-responsible financial institution would be willing to donate?

IME, you want to try not to set things up to be easy for one specific individual, but rather to set things up to be as easy as possible for anyone. If Jane D'oh has to step down as Treasurer in a year or three, you need to make it so you can smoothly transition to someone else (who may live in Alaska).

Hmmm. If you could get a lockbox-type thingey working, then set up a database for Jane D'oh to keep books with auto-updates to your webserver info and webpages...could you set up your NPO in Topeka, so as to bug Freddie-boy? Just a thought. ;) Or maybe whereever it's easiest to get your NPO charter.

[Baker]

Originally posted by Libertarian
That makes sense to me, Manny. In fact, Baker has already offered to contact the local (Topeka) newspaper. He has connections there.

Actually, my contact, so to speak, is at a television station. But I will try and contact the paper too, and the other two television stations. In fact, I already did send them emails about this but have not heard back. That was a couple of days ago so now that things are REALLY coming together they may pay more attention. For anyone interested, the address of the Topeka AIDS Project is 708 SW 6th, Topeka, Kansas 66603. I mentioned it earlier in the thread but this sucker is getting to be LONG!

Oh yeah, Baker is a SHE, not a he, LOL

[Liberal]

Well, that's par for me. :D I recall that when I first came to Straight Dope, I thought that Gaudere was a man. DavidB's lover, in fact. I thought that Tris and Polycarp were atheists. And I thought Jab was nice.

Go figure. [...shrug...]

Anyway, I fixed the entry.

-----

Okay, Balance, you're in, and thanks!

[Liberal]

Dammit.

[Francesca]

I thought of something I can do, since I'm afraid I can't afford to donate money.

For an international angle, I'm happy to push the press release here in the UK. I don't have direct media contacts but I'm fine with calling and faxing whoever I can. Phelps isn't as widely known here, but GLBT organisations certainly know about him and I imagine they'd be happy to spread the Phelps Watch word.

[iampunha]

Okay . . . finally found this thread again.

I emailed Arden Ranger a blurb I wrote for our site. I see that one has already been put up, but hell . . . I like what I wrote. I'm sending it to you, John, as well as anyone who posts here saying they would like to see it.

Oh. Email lists . . . my father is a member of several yahoogroups, which have email and list functions: i.e. you can choose to view messages as they are written, have them sent via email, or both, I think. Might that be something in which we're interested?

[Liberal]

Thanks, Francesca. I've updated your resource offering.

Iamphuna, don't fret. It's just a temporary page to help John monitor his start-up resources. Post your blurb, and I'll put it on the page.

[Typo Negative]

Put me down for $50 and tell me where to send the check.


I really have no skills per se, but if you need a large bald man for an intimidating presence, I'll do what I can...

[Kyla]

I'd like to contribute. I'm in for $20; hopefully I'll be able to send in a check every month, circumstances permitting. I'm not much with the HTML and coding stuff, but I'd be happy to write any copy necessary. This is really a Good thing to do, guys.

[Liberal]

Thanks, Spooje and Kyla. You're in!

[DMC]

If you wish, you can change my donation to a $300 cash donation instead of a domain name. That should give you a bit more flexibility as to the best way to use the money.

[Liberal]

Wow, thanks, DMC! There'll be plenty left over. Domain names are just a few bucks at DirectNIC. I made the change.

[iampunha]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Iamphuna, don't fret. It's just a temporary page to help John monitor his start-up resources. Post your blurb, and I'll put it on the page.

Alright . . . you were warned: it's got some quotes from Fredy's page. So if anyone is squeamish, turn away . . . now.










"Sometimes money speaks louder than words.





Since 1955 Reverend Fred Phelps has been on a campaign to demonize homosexuals on this planet, to bring misery to their lives and the lives of those they love and who love them, and to show that they are the scourge of America and of the world. His message of hate has shown up on television, in print, on the radio, and in the lives of Americans and those in other countries. He has picketed the funerals of loving men and women simply because they were gay or because they were sympathetic toward gays. He marches under the guise of "gospel preaching"; a Christian whose selective Scriptural quotations purport to justify his hatred of gays and everything about them.

His website (http://www.godhatesfags.com) claims the following:

"WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, etc.
...
WBC has conducted some 20,000 such demonstrations during the last nine years at homosexual parades and other events (including funerals of impenitent sodomites, like Matthew Shepard)."

For years Phelps was mostly unnoticed by America and by the world. This relatively-unknown hater of gays became known to so many more people on the day he picketed the funeral of a man who had become publicly-known-Matthew Shepard.

He has not stopped, as his website shows; a list of picketings past, present and future is available on his website. Nor does he have plans to stop his message of filth, of bile, of utter hatred for this group of people who have done nothing to deserve this man's rantings.

That hatred, that utter contempt is based on few things: mainly, his own misguided "knowledge" of homosexuals and his self-interested interpretations of Scripture.

And now that same hate, that desire to make others miserable, that picketing, the additions to his website proclaiming to all who visit that "God hates fags", that "fags" are the sole reason for all that is wrong with America, that which he seems to live by and for . . . is what will bring him down.

For every addition made to his website, donations will made to AIDS charities and other non-profit organizations sympathetic to, and dedicated to amelioration of, homosexual rights and the rights of those around them. For every hit his counter registers, donations are made. Across the country money is raised for AIDS research and homosexual causes whenever Phelps and his group of hate-mongers picket, whatever the reason, however long.

Phelps says "God is not mocked."

Neither are we."

[Liberal]

Okay, iampunha. That's a lot of text! Too much to fit well onto the page, I fear. Therefore, I've made it into a Flash presentation. I'm doing the final reviews and tweaks now. I should have it up in an hour or so.

[Jonathan Chance]

Woof.

For a second there I read the "FAGS DOOM NATIONS" bit as "FAGS DOMINATION" and I thought, "Boy, that sure doesn't SOUND like something Fred would say..."

Then my eyes unwibbled and I got with the program.

[Liberal]

Okay, the presentation is up.

I have no idea how it will behave for the seven percent of you who have Netscape or those who are on slow dial up. It is a very small file by Flash standards (about 360K), but let me know if it needs a preloader or anything. Also, not sure how renegade browsers will interpret object placement in table cell.

Shout out if it misbehaves for you.

Iampunha, other than a few minor alterations for fit (and a couple for philosophy1) your original script is completely intact.

1 I won't let this man be called "Christian" without a "so-called" there too. ;)

[Liberal]

Damn. Here's the link.

[Ventani]

Ok, I've been lurking for too long...

I just wanted to state that this effort is very impressive - on everyone's part - and completely unprecedented as far as I am concerned.

Libertarian, your web-site rocks. Please make a pledge in my name for $20 and e-mail me at the address in my profile when and where the money can be sent.

[Liberal]

May God shower you with blessings, Ventani. You're in!

(Feel free to call me Lib, just like all my other friends do. And welcome to Straight Dope!)

[TeaElle]

First off, let me say that this is a tremendous effort, and it is thrilling to see people riled up enough to do something to counter Fred Phelp's unChristian and inhumane hate activities.

I would be glad to join in any way that I can. Living in NYC, my charitable contributions budget is pretty much shot, but I can probably eke out a few more bucks.

I'd also be glad to offer any other functional help that I can. I have a background in PR/Marketing/Advertising, so I'd be glad to help add a professional touch, as it were, to promotional releases, etc. I also do a bit of web design and would be glad to help in that respect as well.

Lastly, I have a suggestion to throw out, just for consideration on two levels:

1. Fred Phelps is attack-happy. If he feels that his name is being used inappropriately or that he is being defamed, he will call out his dogs (and his son-in-law/church member/lawyer) and make life hell for his target(s).

2. Fred Phelps isn't the only hate-monger out there, not even the only hate-monger specifically targetting gays. See the recent Falwell/Robertson debacle -- Falwell has long been saying many of the same things as Phelps, just without using the word "fags" or picketing funerals. He once suggested that gay people would happily murder good Christian Americans, just for walking down the street!

So therefore, I throw out for you to mull over, why not avoid using Fred Phelp's name in the website/domain, and stick with something more geared toward the goal. This would also allow for other people's hatred -- like Falwell's attack -- to also be highlighted and used as a trigger for action/donations. Some ideas I thought of (all available):

turnhateintohelp.org
reversethehate.org
combathatespeech.org
negatethehate.org

Just a thought, do with it as you please, just be kind. :-)

[Arden Ranger]

"Turning Hate Into Help" is actually the subject I ahve been putting on the email queries I've been sending to various places.

[Angel of the Lord]

I got a link--mention, whatever--on religioustolerance.org, which gets a fair amount of hits...should we perhaps set up an outside accound ASAP, in order to allow non-Dopers to participate? I have an AOL account I can tweak with; I can use that to create a new SN just for this, and I don't mind giving whoever wants access access to it, as I use another ISP and am rarely on AOL.

-----------------
--Gabe
AIM: SanjiKRhys

[Liberal]

Thanks, tlw. I have you in!

John, of course, will make the call on your suggestions, but we know a few lawyers here at SD as well. We're certainly not being nearly as mean to Phelps as he is to say, Matt Shepard.

For example, although Freddie put this on his site...

You may use any of our material free of charge for any reason.

...I refrained from calling him a dumb fuck, and in fact used his generous hospitality to help put together our Flash presentation.

We like Freddie. In fact, we love Freddie. He's the one who hates. And he's proud of it.

With respect to broadening, again that's John's decision, but, though your points are well taken, there are advantages to focusing on a niche, particularly for startups. While Falwell, et al, are pretty slimy, I'm not sure you've quite seen how utterly infested with filth GHF really is.

If we're able to defeat such an obviously vile and obscene website by merely turning hate into love, then believe me, the others will take notice.

Visit their site. But have a barf bag handy.

I do like your domain name suggestions.

Angel

What is an SN?

Arden

Thank you so much for your work.

[iampunha]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Okay, iampunha. That's a lot of text! Too much to fit well onto the page, I fear. Therefore, I've made it into a Flash presentation. I'm doing the final reviews and tweaks now. I should have it up in an hour or so.

Beautiful, Lib. And whoever else had a hand in it.

Without wishing to bite the horse that created that work of art (and I mean that in the truest sense of the word), it might be prudent to figure out how fast the average person reads and make it go a biiiiit faster than that. Granted I've read the thing several times, but I was sitting there waiting for the next bit to pop up after a few seconds.

There are also a few problems with the grammar and such that I can work on tomorrow (I'll be taking the specific bits you use per screen and figuring out where there's a better way to say it, if there is). I'll send you what I have probably by tomorrow night.

[Arden Ranger]

I think it moved about the right speed and I've read it a few times as well. For someone that hasn't, I think it works and it gives you time to process the images that have been included.

We need banner art for people to put on their websites to link to this page and later to link to our official site.

[Arden Ranger]

Oh, and Lib? Put my real name up there on the site. Theresa Thomas.

[Alpine]

I've been away from the boards for quite a while, but I'm happy to have stumbled on this almost right away. Helps renew my faith in humanity.

I have some previous experience in NPOs and I will offer to help with mission, articles of incorporation and bylaws when the time comes. If needed, of course - my experience is pretty limited. I'm a categorizer and an organizer by nature - maybe that will be needed. Also, I'm a mapper, so when we get rolling I could do little promos for how widespread the support is (donor map, etc).

I still like the "goddoesnthate" domain name, or something along the hatetolove transformation line

Email me at the addy in my profile.

[Liberal]

Okay, I made quite a few changes to the movie, based partly on some of your recommendations and based partly on other considerations.

Ending modified

Primary text color changed from yellow to white

File size reduced

Wording tweaked to aid continuity

Timing tweaked

-----

Iamphuna

The timing issue is an interesting one. Generally, the average person can absorb about 5 to 8 syllables per second so long as the words and syntax are familiar, and so long as pharases are grouped.

For example, this:

Now is the time
for all good men
to come to the aid
of their country

reads a bit faster than this:

Now is the time for
all good men to
come to the
aid of their country

But for unfamiliar words, the cognition time increases drastically. Thus, "impenitent" will slow down an awful lot of people as their brain wrestles to resist reading it as a more familar word, like "impotent".

I tried to be as scientific as I could about the timing.

One other factor to consider is that authoritative familiarity increases cognition so much that it is recommended by most developers that the writer never review his own work. It is nearly impossible NOT to read ahead of yourself if you are the one who wrote the text.

Arden

As you wish. It's done.

[Liberal]

Alpine

Thanks for your offer of resources! You're in!

Sorry it's so hard to find this thread. I sent an e-mail to Tuba Diva nominating it for threadspotting, but got no response.

[Liberal]

Oh, and Iampunha, one other thing...

There is a one second pause with empty black before the fade-in of Matt Shepard and a one second pause with empty black after the fade-out. That is intentional.

[Angel of the Lord]

Originally posted by Libertarian

Angel

What is an SN?

Screen Name. Like, "such and such@aol.com". Basically, it's something that you use in order to use aol...like "Libertarian" is for you on these boards. I don't know whether this is helpful or not, but if it could be, I can give one.

[Mielikki]

I'm in for $50, at least. Depending on how finances work out, I can probably throw more in later. Just let me know where to send it.

I dunno from web stuff, but http://drak.net/ has been my host of choice; they're bound to be friendly to the cause and are quite helpful.

Want another possible domain name? How about 'godhateshate'?

[Liberal]

Thank you, Mielikki! You're in!

The hosting service you linked to doesn't do ASP. If it's selected, I won't be able to contribute coding or db assistance. But if someone else takes that over, it'll be moot anyway. I can export the data we have to an ascii file, which they should then be able to import.

[Baker]

Libertarian, John Corrado, so far my emails to the television stations and newspaper have fallen on deaf ears. I'm going to try again, and this time back it up with snail mail. sometimes I think they pay more attention if it's in hardcopy. I did mail a letter, along with a small donation, to the Topeka AIDS Project today, and mentioned this thread. SOMEBODY has to start noticing it.

The following two items came from the Topeka Capital-Journal. This one is an editorial that appeared Sept 16
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/091601/opi_nohate.shtml

These are two letters that appeared in the Capital-Journal just today, the first is by Margie Phelps, spokesperson for her family, and the second is by Dr. Roy Menninger. He is part of the Menninger psychiatric hospital that has been in Topeka for many years, and his family founded the institution. He is also a co-founder of Concerned Citizens for Topeka, a group dedicated to non-violent ways to oppose hatred in the community.

http://www.cjonline.com/stories/092201/opi_letterstoed.shtml

Anythin else I can do now?

[iampunha]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Oh, and Iampunha, one other thing...

There is a one second pause with empty black before the fade-in of Matt Shepard and a one second pause with empty black after the fade-out. That is intentional.

I thought it might be. I think that's entirely appropriate. Sort of like a moment of silence.

::off to watch the movie again::

[Liberal]

Baker

Great letter! And I had read the editorial earlier. Good stuff. As to what you can do, we're all just waiting on John. He's working quietly under the hood right now.

-----

Gentlepersons

Alas, I learned that our bid for threadspotting status was rejected due to either volume or priority. Apparently, making fun of Ikea is more critical to the goal of fighting ignorance than what we are trying to do.

It's a shame.

In fact, I notice than an awful lot of the board's "heavyweights" aren't checking in: Gaudere, Spiritus, David B, Jab, the Admins, Tris, Poly, RT, and that evolution guy, what is it, Bob or something?

Anyway, maybe I should go post in a few great debates.

[Liberal]

Baker

I happened to think... can you contact Jared?

[KarlGauss]

Hey there Lib. I'm sorry to be so dense but it's not obvious to me from visiting the site how to make a pledge. Can you email with the details, please? (I'll even make the cheque in real $USA, not Cdn!). Thanks

[Baker]

Libertarian, I'm not even sure who Jared is. His surname hasn't been given out, and if the paper wouldn't print it they probably have a reason. But I'll see what I can do. Sounds as if he was a young person and I have several teens who are coworkers. Maybe they have some information.

To change the subject, when I donated today to the Topeka AIDS Project I asked if they minded my sending a notice to Phred and Co. that I had done so. I'll wait to see what they say.

[Liberal]

KarlGauss

Thank you! You've come to the right place. As the page says, enroll here. If you care to state an amount, I'll enter it. Meantime, you're in!

Baker

Thanks. If John concurs, perhaps you could contact the reporter who wrote that editorial and inform him of our project. Ask him to contact Jared and inform him.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Alas, I learned that our bid for threadspotting status was rejected due to either volume or priority. Apparently, making fun of Ikea is more critical to the goal of fighting ignorance than what we are trying to do.

It's a shame.

In fact, I notice than an awful lot of the board's "heavyweights" aren't checking in: Gaudere, Spiritus, David B, Jab, the Admins, Tris, Poly, RT, and that evolution guy, what is it, Bob or something?

This is vile.

Lib, please join me here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=88948) in the Pit where these tactics can be discussed without interrupting the thread.

Fenris

[Liberal]

Fenris is right, guys.

I think it's time that I became less and John became more. I'm going to maintain the page and the data from pledges made here until such time as it needs to be moved or until John assigns the permanent duty to me. I got so wrapped up in the notion that we might actually be able to do something about those lunatics that I lost my perspective. My apologies to Gaudere, Spiritus, David B, Jab, the Admins, Tris, Poly, RT, and that evolution guy, what is it, Bob or something.

Much love to all of you for your willingness to fight the good fight. I'm going to just sit back and offer my opinions from time to time.

Thanks.

[Fenris]

Lib, as I said in the other thread, yer a classy guy. (and the "evolution guy" is Ben ;) )

Fenris

[Liberal]

[...slapping forehead...]

Dammit. That's right. My double apologies to Ben. ;)

[Liberal]

I've taken down the hate to love web page because of a complaint in ATMB. Awaiting instructions...

[Arden Ranger]

Agh! Nooo... I've sent that address out in my PR inquiries!

[hawthorne]

My instructions are in ATMB. But it may already be too late. Oh Lib, understand that not everyone is consumed by quite the fervour you feel at exactly the same moment you feel it. It would help in achieving stuff, I suspect it would help with your stress levels, and it would help with me not tearing my hair out.

[Liberal]

I'm just completely defeated. Mentally, emotionally, and physically. The more I care about this, the more I get hurt. I'll do whatever John instructs me to until such time as I am banned.

[Baker]

To John Corrado: I have sent you an email with enquiries pertinent to this thread. I think we all would like to know what may(or may not)happen. As I said in the email, I KNOW you are very busy right now, but please helps us out. I really have been doing what I can and it's getting a little confusing. And, like Arden Ranger, I have already sent this site address out to a number of places. Let us know when you can, please?

[Shayna]

Baker, the solution is simple. Remove any references and/or links to The Straight Dope, while leaving the remainder of the text intact until such time as text pertaining to The Straight Dope can be approved by The Chicago Reader's legal department for possible inclusion on the site.

I honestly fail to see what's so hard to grasp about that. The site does not need to associate itself with The Straight Dope in order to get its very valid and meaningful message across.


___________________
Jeg elsker dig, Thomas

[Arden Ranger]

Originally posted by Shayna
I honestly fail to see what's so hard to grasp about that. The site does not need to associate itself with The Straight Dope in order to get its very valid and meaningful message across.

That's not the problem, Shayna. The problem Iam having is that I sent the link to Lib's site out with the PR inquiries I sent out last week. Now, the site is no longer there. At all. There is just a message there that says "Remeoved out of Fear" that is not going to look good to the people I sent it to last week when they hit it Monday morning.

Note : Coding fixed. - E.

[Edited by Eutychus55 on 09-23-2001 at 06:17 PM]

[Arden Ranger]

Good god. Please forgive the coding and spelling errors in that previous post.

[Shayna]

I understand that, Arden. But for that you need to talk to Lib directly, as he's the one with the content and ability to restore it or not. If he's willing to turn over the password and the text file for the site to someone else, then there's no reason why it can't be restored without reference to The Straight Dope, pending approval of links to here by the legal department.

[LifeOnWry]

Dammit. Right now I would really like to bop Lib very hard on the head. I'm not mad, just really really disappointed.

Someone give me a holler if/when this mess is straightened out. Or if I can help straighten it out. I don't speak web or HTML, but if there's something I can do to get this rolling again, let me know.

[Baker]

There's just one more thing I want to say for now in this particular thread and then I am going to avoid it for a while. We are all a little sad at the way things have gone here but it's time to get back on the horse and ride again. Don't let this disappointment sour you on the Straight Dope experience as a whole. I still plan on proselytizing for it among my friends(I'm just going to steer them to the funny stuff first) I love this place. Some weeks it is the most fun I have. To quote Tiny Tim "God bless us every one" (I wasn't witnessing, I swear!)

[Eutychus]

Might I respectfully suggest that this project keep on going but that you set up a mailing list to keep everyone informed on what's going on. That way the project keeps going and it keeps the Straight Dope insulated.

[iampunha]

I have the time and knowledge, I think, to keep the page updated, unless there are languages being used on it that are unknown to me . . . and I do believe the page as a whole is small enough to fit on my angelfire account, if Libertarian would rather do it that way. I don't know, so I'm asking.

And as for the email list idea . . . well, Hell, while I'm volunteering myself for things, if people want to email me with the header "Phelps Project" or something and give me email and name (IRL and/or SDMB) and anything else they like, such as geographic area, I can either handle that or give it to John Corrado, as he's officially heading the overall operation.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Baker
To quote Tiny Tim "God bless us every one" (I wasn't witnessing, I swear!)

<blink>
I thought Tiny Tim said

<falsetto>
Tiptoe, through the tulips!
</falsetto>

and so forth.

Fenris

[Esprix]

Has no one heard of Yahoo Groups (formerly egroups)?

Esprix

[DMC]

Does anyone know how long Lib has to sit in the corner? I'm not familiar with the banning policies around here. I'm all for removing any SD references and getting on with this thing. I think hurt feelings should take a back seat to fighting hatred (and ignorance).

[Arden Ranger]

Actually, Lib put himself in Time Out, so I guess the length of time is up to him.

We need our Pointy Haired Boss to check in. :)

[DMC]

Arden Ranger,

I'm sorry about my poor choice of words, which do seem to imply that he was being punished. I read the thread where he asked for his "time out", but I assumed they gave him the "standard temporary ban", if there is such as thing. I was just curious how long that was, as I really like this idea and would hate to see it get stalled over something that is easily rectified.

[LifeOnWry]

Has no one heard of Yahoo Groups (formerly egroups)?

Hey! I can set that up for us! Hang on... back in a few.

[LifeOnWry]

Subscribe: intolove-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

OK, I think I've got it. I haven't done any formal intro or anything, just got the group a list. I can change anything you-all want later.

Go ahead and send e-mails.

[Mielikki]

Or here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/intolove

[LifeOnWry]

Oh, thank you, Mielikki.

After I set up the email group, I realized iampunha sid something about doing the same thing a few posts up. I hope I haven't stepped on any toes!

[John Corrado]

Hi, folks, I'm here.

I think iampunha and LifeOnWry have the right idea, and I thank Wry for starting up the group. This project is going to require quite a bit of back-and-forth information, and an SD thread is going to go a little screwy after 5 pages, so a Yahoo! group is probably the best way to proceed.


Anyone who is interested in the set-up portion of this project should sign into the group. We'll need to discuss which domain name to use, getting that domain name, and creating the web page. We'll also need to set up the documentation et. al. to get ourselves set up as an official charity. Those should be our first priority. Once we have the website, we can use that as a name; we can publicize before we get official charity status, but I'd like to get that ASAP- it can only help in getting out the word.

For those who have offered to do publicity- again, thank you all *very* much. Once we have the name and an idea of how long it will take to get official charity status, we'll start tapping you regarding this.

For those who have offered money, thank you. Once we have a bank account set up, we'll let you know where to send donations. I understand that you may wish to wait until we've hit charity status; we'll keep y'all updated.


Again, thanks to all for their efforts on this project.

[jab1]

Gimme a snail-mail address and I'll throw some cash into the pot. I can't say today how much I can give, but it will be something.

[LifeOnWry]

jab1, as soon as we have one, we'll let you know!