Hey, Kathleen Parker? I got yer fuckin' God right here!

[MEBuckner]

From that great bastion of journalism, USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com):
God, country gain fragile new toehold (http://www.usatoday.com/news/comment/2001-10-01-ncguest1.htm)

by Kathleen Parker, syndicated columnist for Tribune Media Services and member of the USA Today board of contributors

One can't help notice the silence of atheists these days. Suddenly "God" is everywhere, as ubiquitous as American flags, spreading — as Dan Rather said in a spasm of simile-rapture to describe rumors following the Sept. 11 attacks — "like mildew in a damp basement."

War has that effect. There are no atheists in foxholes, we've always known. There were none in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, we can guess. And now there are none anywhere to be found. America today is about God and country, but then it always has been. We just lost track.
Followed by about another seven or eight hundred words of verbal diarrhea about "evicting God from our public institutions" and "renegades from our traditional heritage".

If anyone has ever wondered why some atheists are so damned pushy--"But it's a nationalll tragedyyy! How can you atheists be so meannn and bring up all that stuff about the Constitution noww!!!"--well this is why. Because if we don't bring it up NOW then some dog-felching monkey-fondling pig-licker will spew some garbage about "the silence of atheists these days" and root around in her septic tank of cliches for that old "no atheists in foxholes" lie. (I've met plenty of atheists who've been in foxholes. Hmmm..."There are no Christians in universities!" "There are no theists in Mensa!" "There are no Bible-believers who are literate enough to sign their own name!" "All Christians are so fucking stupid they have to be fed intravenously and placed on respirators because they're too fucking stupid to remember to breathe!" Of course those are lies, but hey, fuck the truth, right? We don't need no steenkin' truth, right?)

Of course, I should sit down and write a nice, polite but firm, well-reasoned letter to the editor in which I carefully point out that Kathleen Parker has a great big festering pustule in place of a brain and that she undoubtedly enjoys having deviant sexual relations with goats and gorillas and donkeys and throw in a couple of quotes from James Madison and stuff. But really, I've got to vent first.

Hey, you ignorant mindless puke-swilling shit-for-brains asswipe, why don't you move to Afghanistan if you're so fucking eager to live in a country which hasn't "evicted God from its public institutions"? They'd love you there! They love God and they just really love women who write editorial columns for major newspapers! I don't suppose it would possibly have occured to you that maybe now would NOT be a good time to gratuitously question the patriotism of a group of Americans based on their religious beliefs? That maybe atheists can be patriots too, that maybe atheists can love their country and revere and want to defend its institutions too and be fucking well unhappy that some bunch of GOD-FEARING EXTREMELY NON-ATHEISTIC RELIGIOUS FANATICS had just murdered several thousand of our fellow citizens? Oh wait, the dictionary says "occur" means "to come to mind". You, obviously, have nothing which could be described as a "mind". "Our children must be awfully confused" that all these adults are mentioning God. WHAT FUCKING PLANET DO YOU FUCKING LIVE ON, WOMAN?!? Do you live on fucking Bizarro World? Ever hear of fucking Sunday School? Fucking Vacation Bible School? Ever walked down a fucking street in an American town or city? See that big building right in front of you? The one with a big cross on it? Hey, idiot, I've got news for you--that ain't a fucking drive-through movie theater! Oh, look--there's another one! Fuck--they're everywhere! It's like Pod People or some damn thing! There's no fucking escape! People turn little storefronts and old fast food restaurants and I-kid-you-not PUTT-PUTT GOLF COURSES into churches in this country!

Lemme see--"Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist for Tribune Media Services who was raised by wolves on the Planet Mars." "Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist for Tribune Media Services who writes a regular column from Pyongyang, North Korea." "Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist who was born blind and deaf and has never learned sign language. She can't smell or taste so good either. She has no knowledge at all of the outside world. She makes these funny little grunting noises and we transcribe them into a column."

Nope. It doesn't say any of that.

FUCK, woman, where the fuck have you been for your entire life, anyway? Children will be confused because adults are talking about God now?!? Oh, yes, that's right--we've finally thrown off the cruel yoke of Communist oppression in this country! Now Christians can emerge from the catacombs and TALK ABOUT GOD! No longer will the Mad Tyrant Madalyn Murray O'Hair's Legions of Doom hunt down anyone who TALKS ABOUT GOD!

FUCK!!! Every other word anybody says in this fucking country is God! You can't throw a fucking brick in any direction without hitting a fucking church! God God God--people at work have God Screen Savers and read books about God on their lunch break! You walk in the grocery store, bam, big as life, a rack of books about God! The book stores all have whole sections about God, plus there are other book stores that only have books about God. Celebrities talk about God. Politicians talk about God. Athletes thank God when they successfully sack the opposing quarterback. Just which children is it you are talking about who are confused that adults are mentioning this strange concept, "God", which they've apparently never heard of before? Little vegetable children? "Hello, my name is Timmy, and I've been in a Persistent Vegetative State ever since I was born and I live on Mars and I don't have any mother or father, just wolves, and I have never heard of this strange word some people are using now, "God"? What does this mean? Please reply to this e-mail and forward it to 10,000 of your closest friends and have them reply to it too and when the Martian Overlords come everyone who has replied to this e-mail will be spared the Martian Product Testing Labs and sent to the thorium mines instead and your life will not be quite as brutally and painfully short. Thank you."

What the FUCK is with these FUCKING people, anyway? Put God on your fucking bumper, I don't care. Put God all over your house. Go to fucking church on Sunday. Go to Wednesday night prayer meeting. Wear stupid T-shirts that rip off popular marketing slogans for God. ("God Adds Life!" "Got God?" "God--It's what's for dinner!") Carve God on your forehead with an X-Acto knife, see if I care. Give ten percent of your income to support some big-ass mega-church--fine, hey, no skin off my back, it's a fucking free country. Just leave me in peace, m'kay?

But NOOOO! You HAVE to have the fucking government bow down to your fucking tribal idol too. You have to cram your mindless little superstitions down EVERYBODY's throat! You can't leave me in peace, you have to say I must not be a patriot and I must not be a Real American because I don't grovel before your little Bronze Age deity.

NNNYYYAAAUUURGH!!!!!

[Astroboy14]

"dog-felching monkey-fondling pig-licker"??

Wow!

I'd stand and applaud, but you seem to be out of sorts right now... so I'll just quietly post and slink away...

[Jonno]

You're my new hero. That was completely wonderful. So much so, that I finally got off my ass and registered after months of lurking, just so I could say how goddam full of patriotic pride you've made me. Just when I thought I was out of tears, you make me believe in America again.

CC
~insert witty and reference heavy sigline here~

[yosemite]

Good rant. This woman is smug and irritating, and I am sure you feel better after venting your spleen with such a splendidly written rant. I especially liked this line: She makes these funny little grunting noises and we transcribe them into a column.
Damn. That's pure poetry!

However, I did notice this line:You have to cram your mindless little superstitions down EVERYBODY's throat!
Sure, she's smug, she's irritating. She's a huge pain-in-the ass.

But please note that some of her "mindless little superstitions" are probably also my "mindless little superstitions", and Polycarp's, and DDG's, and countless other religions folk. And all I have to say about that is...gee, thanks. :(

[Gomez]

I am in awe....absolute awe.

Nothing else to say


<slinks away, bowing, in awe>

[blur]

Wow. I don't think I've ever rated a Pit post before, and may never again, but that post was a thing of beauty. Remind me to never piss you off.

[Barbarian]

MEBuckner, please submit that to your local paper.

Then remove the word 'fuck' and send it in again under your real name ;)

[Dangerosa]

Beautiful rant, a work of art.

And true.

We even went through it here, when some of the non-theists or non-religious said "hey, we aren't comfortable with this national emphasis on God and prayer, we think its devisive" and got back "what???? deny others comfort. How can you?"

Now, having been silent out of respect for others comfort, you are being told you must have converted? Congrats. I'm sure you'll find peace in God......

[RedFury]

Pardon me for going beyond the obvious. Besides being an awesome rant, it is right down scary.

As in "where is this world going" scary. Exactly what is it going to take for people to realize that there's no hiding behind man-made deities with feet of clay? Only a theist could possibly find refuge in the infamously circular "mysterious ways" of the lord. Just in case we'd forgotten that religious strife of one kind or another is responsible for killing more people than any other single factor in the history of mankind, we just had the most gruesome reminder in the history of terrorism. All because Mr. God Mohammed said it was the right thing to do: Jihad, kill the heathens. And of course, our own Mr. God Jesus' first suggestion to his loving flock was just as direct: with a Crusade of apocalyptic proportions.

So, in the middle of this insanity we're being told by this Katheleen Parker, that there are no atheists left. And that's what I find so downright scary, that at a times like this people actually turn towards an ineffable entity, incapable of doing a thing...other than justifying more killing in his name. This is civilized, exactly how?

Hopefully, as MEBuckner points out in no uncertain terms, she has it all wrong and is just worried about pushing her own brand of manure at the worst possible time.

Be that as it may, his won't be the only letter editor on this matter.

[Eonwe]

Wow. Fabulous. That is all.

[Mars Horizon]

I have no energy to rant, so I'm just going to give you my thoughts.

This is a bit depressing.

It's rather ironic to me that I just left Xtianity, where I thought my beliefs were under "persecution" :rolleyes:, only to embrace freethought and nontheism and find out that now my beliefs really are in the minority, and despised by many. ::sigh::

Why can't people just take comfort in their religious beliefs without having to have someone to demonize?

I think I'm going to go take a walk and get my mind off this.

yosemitebabe[/b]]

If all theists were like you, DDG, and Poly, then we would not be having this discussion. But more of them are not like you. Please don't take offense. I cannot speak for MEBuckner, but I doubt he meant any ill will towards you, et. al.

Cheers!

[dropzone]

Welcome, Celtic Cowboy!

Thank you, MEB. While I share YosemiteBabe's caveat, you did a lovely job and I have to admit to sometimes grumbling about "people's damned Sumerian storm god who made good," but not when I'm in church!

[Duck Duck Goose]

Well, somebody somewhere once summed up Kathleen Parker as "smug, Southern, and suburban", which I find very apt.

She did an unforgiveable number last summer on the woman who was a hospital administrator and who absent-mindedly forgot to drop off her 7-month-old baby at the day care center, and left it in the car out in the parking lot, where it died of heat stroke. It wasn't normally her task to drop the kids off--the daddy did that, on his way to work, and that morning she had a big confrontational staff meeting scheduled, so it was quite understandable that she should simply forget the baby was in the back of the car. It was one of those "shit happens" tragedies.

Kathleen's premise was first, that if you're bright and successful enough to be a hospital administrator, then you're bright and successful enough not to leave your baby in the car. In other words, bright and successful administrators aren't supposed to be human and fuck up, ever.

And second, that the ultimate responsibility for children always rests with the mother. This meant that the mom was doubly at fault--first, because she was a bright and successful administrator, and second, because she was the baby's mom.

However, in the same column, she had no problem with the woman in Houston who drowned her five children in the bathtub. She wasn't a bright and successful hospital administrator--she was from a lower socioeconomic group, so one doesn't expect much by way of maternal competence from her, and so obviously she deserves our pity, not our scorn.

I wondered at the time what planet Kathleen was from, and now, thanks to Buckner, I know.

Excellent rant. 9.9

[Necros]

Huh. I normally like Kathleen Parker. Shame on me, I guess.

She seems to be missing a crucial point. The events of 11 September did not make me reexamine my non-belief in God at all. I never thought for even one second that "God was trying to teach us something" or punish us, or whatever. People dying does not cause me to cast off my principles.

I think what she's missing is that atheists are being quiet out of respect for everyone else who might hold religious beliefs. If you need to turn to a deity you believe in in this time of crisis, please do so. It's been traumatic for all of us. That's why we atheists haven't complained publicly about members of Congress singing "God Bless America." After all, many of them are religious people too, and we don't ask them to supress their beliefs.

I guess the difference is that most of us atheists are willing to allow people to hold any beliefs they wish. Obviously this is not so for some of the Christians among us.

[rushtopher]

I'm am exceedingly glad this rant came up, because a few days after the disaster I had this exactly conversation with a co-worker. I simply nodded and walked away, because I prefer not to get into political/religious discussions with people I work with, especially when I know I am going to get hot under the collar.

Simply put, this man works 3 cubes down from a a Hindu woman that is going to have a baby. While he gloats and says, "You don't hear the ACLU now" I want him to have the balls to walk down to the woman and inform her that she must either convert or move. Furthermore he should tell her that she must have her child educated in a public school taught by nuns, because this is a Christian country. Then explain how this is a good thing. Then report to your boss for firing.

Dickwad, a few myths for you:
1) This is a Christian Country, SOCAS is a myth that is not in the Constitution.

Yes Seperation of Church and State is in the Constitution. Check the part about "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Look cite:
http://encarta.msn.com/find/concise.asp?mod=1&ti=04491000&page=7

What that means is there can be no official religion for the US, because that would prohibit the free exercise of other religions. Of course deep down in your addled brain what you really want is a Christian theocracy, and have deluded yourself into thinking that's what this is.

2) The fifties were great because of all the prayer in school and God in the government.

Unless you were black, female, poor, communist.....the fifties weren't all that wonderful, sorry.

3) Prayer in School would have stopped this. So would a Christian government.

I shall point out that part of the reason these fanatics (who are religious mind you, oh but that's the wrong religion, forgot) hate us is that we are so predominately Christian. An official Christian government would not have helped this situation. Nor would prayer in school.

You goat felching dickwad, intolerance is hardly the answer for this scenario, and the quiet of people different than you in a time of crisis does not make you right! However taking advantage of the silence to promote your agenda does make you an uncaring lying opportunist. Cool huh.

Grrr.....feeling much better now.

Excellent rant: 9.8 With a member of the Anglican church giving you a 9.0, ruining all the tens.

[Big SUV]

The sheer meanness of the attacks on Christians makes me ashamed of my status as an atheist (or, more properly, an agnostic).

A rant like the OP, if it were addressed to atheists, or liberals, would provoke a firestorm of disapproval and superior self-righteous clucking over the "meanness of tone".

Has anyone ever converted to Christianity without believing? I'm tempted, just because I think I'd be joining a better class of people.

Do you remember when Joseph Welch had his historic moment with McCarthy? When he asked, "At long last, sir, have you no decency?"

I wonder if someone needs to ask this question of the American left.

[Mars Horizon]

Dear gods, where do I begin? :rolleyes:
The sheer meanness of the attacks on Christians makes me ashamed of my status as an atheist (or, more properly, an agnostic).There are widespread vicious attacks on Christians? Ummm, where? Surely you mean somewhere other than in one Pit thread?A rant like the OP, if it were addressed to atheists, or liberals, would provoke a firestorm of disapproval and superior self-righteous clucking over the "meanness of tone".So? What's your point? Christians are the ones who claim to be all loving.Has anyone ever converted to Christianity without believing?Maybe, but far more have converted without thinking.I'm tempted, just because I think I'd be joining a better class of people.Argumentum ad hominem. Blah blah blah.<snip>When he asked, "At long last, sir, have you no decency?"
I wonder if someone needs to ask this question of the American left.What does left wing politics have to do with the OP?

[Little Bird]

*sniff* I love you people. *Wipes tear from eye*

Howdy CelticCowboy! Welcome aboard!

[MEBuckner]

Originally posted by CelticCowboy
Just when I thought I was out of tears, you make me believe in America again.
Thanks. Alas, I doubt that post will ever catch on as an annual Fourth of July speech.
Originally posted by yosemitebabe
But please note that some of her "mindless little superstitions" are probably also my "mindless little superstitions", and Polycarp's, and DDG's, and countless other religions folk. And all I have to say about that is...gee, thanks. :(
Well, I'm sorry if there was any collateral damage to any of the Good Christians. As Mars Horizon notes, if all believers were as decent as Polycarp or Duck Duck Goose or you, then the worst things atheists would likely say about religious belief would be to express polite disagreements in the course of earnest and well-reasoned discussions of the Meaning of Life.
Originally posted by Big SUV
The sheer meanness of the attacks on Christians makes me ashamed of my status as an atheist (or, more properly, an agnostic).

A rant like the OP, if it were addressed to atheists, or liberals, would provoke a firestorm of disapproval and superior self-righteous clucking over the "meanness of tone".
Oh for fuck's sake.

If some atheist were to assert that no one who believes in God could be a patriotic American, I would fully expect him to be flamed to a crisp.

Furthermore, did you actually bother to read the fucking twit's column? We're not just talking about "in this time of crisis my belief in God has been a great source of strength to me". Minus the obscenity and the references to bestiality, and using langauge appropriate for a "family newspaper", I'd say what she wrote was basically "a rant like the OP...addressed to atheists". ("Renegades from our traditional heritage" my fucking ass.)

You might also recall some vile spew vomited forth by Jerry Falwell a few days after the attacks ("I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"--"this" being the murder of thousands of innocent people by God-intoxicated religious fanatics).

See, most atheists I know only crank up the flamethrowers after some asshole starts flaming us. That's certainly the kind of flame-throwing I support and defend.

"The sheer meanness of the attacks on Christians makes me ashamed of my status as an atheist (or, more properly, an agnostic)."

Yeah, us atheists should be grateful that those generous Christians even let us live in their country! They're so good to us! As long as we never publicly say anything about our beliefs, they'll tolerate our secret, closeted existence!

Pardon me, I have to go pick some cotton and sing a few non-spirituals. I'm just a happy, grateful heathen, yessir!
Originally posted by Mars Horizon
There are widespread vicious attacks on Christians? Ummm, where?
Well, you know, on Kathleen Parker World. Where little children never hear the word God, Christians are horribly persecuted by the liberal atheist Religion Police, and people say things like "Me no want ice cream--Me hate ice cream!" just before they sit down to eat a couple of pints of the stuff.

[Daowajan]

MEBuckner, marry me!

[Dinsdale]

Hey, MEB, I may not believe in god(s), but you are my idol.

But, while you score big for "festering pustule in place of a brain," and "she don't smell or taste too good either," you get marked down for the redundant references to martian wolves.

Buddy of mine was talking about their upcoming services for "The persecuted church." Had to restrain my self from suggesting alternative titles such as "The insufficiently subsidized church," etc. Think for yourself if you want to know ideological persecution.

[dropzone]

There are no atheists in foxholes, we've always known. There were none in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, we can guess.
Actually, I'm not so sure. People were busy trying to get out of the building, but the end came so suddenly and absolutely that there was little time for last-moment conversions. One thing that cockpit recorders show is that the last words of pilots, a group that can die suddenly while very busy, tend more to "Oh, shit!" than prayer.

[Elenfair]

::: Elly, who is usually not easily impressed, scrapes her jaw off the floor ::::

MEB. Dear. Darling.

Wow.

That was beautiful.

Wow.

::: wipes a tear from her cheek :::

Wow.

E. (Marry me, too? C'mon, everyone wants to marry the Fearless Leader of the Scylla World Domination Happy Fun Squad... C'mooooon... Be a pal... :D )

[redtail23]

::wild applause::

Thank you, MEBuckner! I swoon at your feet.

[MEBuckner]

MEBuckner, marry me!
But we haven't even been formally introduced! Call me old-fashioned....
...you get marked down for the redundant references to martian wolves.
Well, I was trying for sort of a theme, y'know?
Actually, I'm not so sure.
Well I'm quite sure that, out of 6,000 New Yorkers, just about every religious belief and practice known to mankind was represented. I'm sure there were people who commended their souls to God, including some who hadn't really been very religious lately. I'm sure there were others who were atheists to the end.

Elenfair, I haven't been formally introduced to you, either.

This is a strange community we've got going here. Cuss some idiot out and make a lot of references to bestiality and stuff, and all of a sudden women you've never met want to be in your harem. Not necessarily strange in a bad way, but definitely strange.

[dropzone]

Originally posted by MEBuckner
Actually, I'm not so sure.
Well I'm quite sure that, out of 6,000 New Yorkers, just about every religious belief and practice known to mankind was represented. Uh, I need to be pushed to the breaking point to say anything absolutely. Where I come from, "I'm not so sure" is the same as as, say, a New Yorker's "You fucking moron! How could you say anything so stupidly false?"

[Sofa King]

Well, I'm trying hard to continue to hold my tounge.

I will, however, say this. Somebody fucked up real bad when they decided to take on the U.S., exactly because a significant proportion of us are atheist, agnostic, or non-religious.

When we find the motherfuckers who did this, I'll be the first in line to send the bastards straight to their little Saturday Morning Cartoon Reality Hell....

...Just to watch the expressions on their faces.

[minty green]

I have detested Kathleen Parker ever since I first came across her earlier this year. When she wrote a column that completely misrepresented a court opinion that I had already read, I wrote her editors to tell them she was lying and ask for a correction. She actually wrote back and defended the column while simultaneously conceding that, no, the court really hadn't said what she claimed it said. Basically, her defense boiled down to an argument that the falsehood about the court's holding was okay because what had happened to the defendants was a bad thing anyway. So much for responsible journalism, huh?

I won't post my correspondence with her, but I'd be happy to pass it along if anyone wants to email me.

[MsRobyn]

This is from last week's Savage Love column. It has nothing to do directly with Kathleen Parker (whom I consider to be a twit anyway), but I think it's appropriate:


Confidential to all folks who are mad at me for doubting the existence of a loving God who hears our prayers and gets off His ass every once in a while and helps us out down here: Did you see the picture of the sobbing eight-year-old boy bent over his mother's casket in the Tuesday, September 18, 2001, issue of The New York Times? The boy's mother was a single parent, and he's an only child. I challenge everyone who wrote in to tell me that "God doesn't give us anything we can't handle" (especially the dozens of you who sent me that infuriating one-set-of-footprints story) to sit and stare at that picture for an hour and then tell me there's a loving God up there somewhere. Oh, I'll grant you that there might be a God or a higher power or something. But a loving God/higher power/something? Don't make me puke.


My sentiments exactly.

[Revtim]

Whenever someone says "there are no atheists in foxholes" I always quote Dennis Miller: "Nobody becomes born-again on prom night."

[samclem]

ME Truly masterful! Very little wasted space. My hat's off to you(if I wore one).

Just the fact that DDG jumped in to bash Kathleen would indicate that she{Kathleen} is an opportunistic whore who just has a gift of gab that article-starved editors of "in-your-face-papers" would publish.

Hey, Big SUV! As Jesus said, when describing the Romans, don't let the door hit you in the *ss on the way out!. NO, really! He said that. It's in one of the books of the apocrypha! I have a copy, right here in my coat pocket(thumping his breast pocket). Joseph Welch, indeed! (Meanwhile, I have e-mailed a buddy who knows about early rock music and publishers, and am trying to find an answer to your other post to the board.) See, it's nothing personal. You just have to think before you speak.

[Persephone]

I think what she's missing is that atheists are being quiet out of respect for everyone else who might hold religious beliefs.

So are those of us who are religious, but non-Christian.

I'm Pagan. And for all really public religious memorials that have been going on lately, polytheism really hasn't been represented much, if at all.

But we're quiet about it, because right now, it's just the respectful thing to do. Besides, monotheists are in the majority, and I just don't feel like stirring up more trouble. I'll leave that to the jackoffs like Falwell and Robertson.

My silence isn't because I worship the God of Abraham. It's because a gozillion other people do, and those folks need him right now.

[Tuckerfan]

::standing and applauding::

Amen, brother, amen! My boss is a bit of a fundie and he was spouting nearly some of the same kinds of things you were blasting in your OP. Of course, I can't tell him that it was that kind of mentality (followed by his comments of, "We just need to turn the whole of the Mid-East into a giant parking lot.") that "inspired" those lunatics to hijack a couple of planes and fly them into the WTC and the Pentagon. I don't care what kind of religion you are, just don't try and cram it down my throat!

[matt_mcl]

Originally posted by Revtim
Whenever someone says "there are no atheists in foxholes"...

...I say, "There are no heterosexuals in foxholes, either."

Oh, and ME? I wish I had a spare month to dedicate to memorizing that rant and learning to recite it on command. It rivals Shakespeare in its concision and evocativeness. A bravura performance.

[yosemite]

ME, it was a masterful rant, a thing of beauty. And I'm really not trying to detract from that. Really. Thumbs up. A great rant. However, I've just gotta tease you a little bit... (Forgive me!)

Well, I'm sorry if there was any collateral damage to any of the Good Christians.

I'll remember to use the "collateral damage" line the next time I say something offensive about a large group of people's beliefs! ;)

As Mars Horizon notes, if all believers were as decent as Polycarp or Duck Duck Goose or you, then the worst things atheists would likely say about religious belief would be to express polite disagreements in the course of earnest and well-reasoned discussions of the Meaning of Life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. "But I didn't mean your mindless little superstitions!" "Some of my best friends have mindless little superstitions!" Yeah. OK. Uh huh. No really. Whatever.

I'm sorta teasing, ME. I know this woman deserved every bit of hostility you directed at her. But I have to confess, I can't get real enthusiastic about being "collateral damage".

But still. The rant was a thing of poetry and beauty. :)

[MEBuckner]

I have well-reasoned beliefs.

You have articles of religious faith.

She has mindless little superstitions.

See?

Or, um, how about this: "There are no atheists in foxholes." "All patriotic Americans believe in God." "This country was founded as a Christian Nation."

Those are "mindless little superstitions".

[yosemite]

Originally posted by MEBuckner

Or, um, how about this: "There are no atheists in foxholes." "All patriotic Americans believe in God." "This country was founded as a Christian Nation."

Those are "mindless little superstitions".

No prob, ME. However, I don't think any of the quotes you give above fit the description of "mindless little superstitions" - they are just untrue and stupid assumptions. "Mindless"? Yes. "Stupid"? Yes. "Superstitions"? No. I don't see anything that resembles the definition of a "superstition" in those statements, unless I misunderstand the meaning of "superstition".

But that's a small point, compared to the main thrust of your rant. I understand and appreciate what you are trying to say about this woman, and don't want to detract from it any further. Carry on!

[Drastic]

Superstition == a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary.

One fine fucking rant == the OP.

[yosemite]

From dictionary.com:
su·per·sti·tion (spr-stshn)
n.
1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2.
a. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
b. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
c. Idolatry.



There are a few other definitions listed, mostly simular to this one.

And yes, agreed - a splendid rant.

[Necros]

Persephone said:

My silence isn't because I worship the God of Abraham. It's because a gozillion other people do, and those folks need him right now.


Exactly. And pardon me for leaving out people of other, non-Judeo-Christian faiths. It was more my intention to slide in alongside the OPer. But you're absolutely correct. I've heard few to no complaints about outpourings of YHVH-love from other religious groups.

matt_mcl said:

I say, "There are no heterosexuals in foxholes, either."


I rarely "laugh out loud" at things I read on this board, but I really liked this. Thanks, bub. :)

[SaxFace]

MEB, great job, thanks. I've been choking on godstuff since Sept. 11th and really needed to read your rant. It's much appreciated.

[pricciar]

Choking On Godstuff

Coming soon from a fine pornographer near you.

God: You'll love my stuff!


pat

[jab1]

Preach it, brother!

[Persephone]

Necros: Not a problem. Trust me when I say us Pagans would MUCH rather be overlooked by decent, average Christians (which most of you guys are) than noticed by nutballs like Parker.

or blamed for the whole damn thing, like Falwell tried to do...

[croaker67]

Ladies and gentlmen we are in the presence of greatness. Great work MEBuckner!! Gonna be difficult to top that one. I'm still laughing at the references:D :D :D

[Nietzsche]

::: joins standing ovation already in progress:::

Masterful work of art MEB!


I wish Miss Parker would see the above rant.

[rsa]

It's funny, but I read this a couple of days ago and got even more depressed than usual. I actually was going to write a letter to the editor. I was suprised that USA Today would print anything that biased. I was going to cancel my Dallas Morning News subscription and get USA Today. Now I'm not so sure.

MEBuckner, why don't you write a letter to USA Today. You have a much better talent for writing that I -- plus you're probably more sober than me ;)

I'd be happy to provide research assistance if you'd like (e.g., no atheists in foxholes, etc.).

[MEBuckner]

MEBuckner, why don't you write a letter to USA Today
Oh, I already wrote 'em a letter. Like I said in the O.P., I needed to vent first, as otherwise I'd have probably wound up writing them a letter to the editor that they'd have turned over to the FBI.

I'm also pretty sure that they are going to be receiving a lot of letters about that column--several national organizations of godless heathens have picked up on that one. Exactly what if anything will be printed, I don't know. But they're getting letters, count on it.

[black rabbit]

I'm gonna steal the OP.

Well, no I'm not, but I'm sure as hell gonna save it for all my dumbass relatives who've been sending me dumbass fundie glurge for the past few weeks...

[domina]

"I figured it out, and it's really very succinct," she said. "I believe in God and I believe in my country."

From the beginning of American time, the two have been entwined and inseparable.

You know, this reminds me that just the other day, somebody in my office handed out little flags to everybody. The bar-code sticker was still on mine. So I displayed it as it was, remarking to my neighbor, "Ah perfect! An American flag with its Mark of the Beast right on it!"

My neighbor didn't get it. But now I can enjoy thinking how it would give Kathleen Burton conniption fits.

[domina]

Whoops! I meant Kathleen Parker, of course. Where the heck did that come from?

[matt_mcl]

Originally posted by Nietzsche
I wish Miss Parker would see the above rant.

And I was sitting here thinking, "Kathleen, or Dorothy?"

[Ogre]

Originally posted by dropzone
There are no atheists in foxholes, we've always known. There were none in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, we can guess.
Actually, I'm not so sure. People were busy trying to get out of the building, but the end came so suddenly and absolutely that there was little time for last-moment conversions. One thing that cockpit recorders show is that the last words of pilots, a group that can die suddenly while very busy, tend more to "Oh, shit!" than prayer.

Sorry to get this in late, but just for the record, there is an Atheists in Foxholes Monument (http://www.mindspring.com/~wjager/atheists-in-foxholes.html) near, of all places, Talladega, Alabama.

This page tells its rather interesting story.

[jab1]

Originally posted by Nietzsche
I wish Miss Parker would see the above rant.She'd probably just focus on the "naughty" words and ignore the substance of what he wrote. The word "fuck" alone would probably make her faint.

[Nietzsche]

Originally posted by matt_mcl
And I was sitting here thinking, "Kathleen, or Dorothy?"

The poet? If that's whom you meant, something tells me she would be loudly applauding MEB's rant as well. :)


Originally posted by jab1
She'd probably just focus on the "naughty" words and ignore the substance of what he wrote. The word "fuck" alone would probably make her faint.

We'll make sure to have plenty of smelling salts handy. :D

[Dangerosa]

MEBuckner,

I'd be interested in seeing the letter you actually sent, if you would be willing to post it.

[mswas]

That post almost rated a snarf all over the computer screen. Especially the part with "Hello, my name is Timmy, and I've been in a Persistent Vegetative State ever since I was born and I live on Mars and I don't have any mother or father, just wolves,"

Erek

[MEBuckner]

I'd be interested in seeing the letter you actually sent, if you would be willing to post it.
Dear Editor:

Kathleen Parker to the contrary, there are atheists in foxholes and there were atheists in the World Trade Center. Given that over 6,000 of our fellow Americans and guests in our country were murdered on September 11, it is a mathematical certainty that hundreds of atheists died alongside their fellow human beings who happened to be Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, New Agers, and adherents of every other religious belief which flourishes in a great free city like New York.

Atheists are not "renegades from our traditional heritage". I personally know atheists who are special agents with the FBI, Air Force non-commissioned officers on active duty overseas, and Vietnam War veterans. Are those atheists unpatriotic, un-American "renegades"?

It's unfortunate that, at a time when our President has rightly called on all Americans to unite and reject attempts at division based on our religious beliefs, Ms. Parker must spread such bigotry about her fellow citizens.

Sincerely,

Michael E. Buckner
See, I didn't refer to goat felching a single time. Aren't y'all proud?

[Polycarp]

MEB

Outstanding! 9.8 on my scale!

(Never mind DDG; she's too prone to judge a rant by its profanity. ;))

I would just like to add one comment, from a Christian perspective: Too damned many (and "damned" is the precise word choice here, not profanity) excuses for humanity have used the recent tragic events to promote their own religious/political power plays. Ms. Parker seems to be the latest to climb on the bandwagon. The greatest fear I have is that someday some of these bizarro demagogues will somehow succeed in making us a "Christian nation" by their standards -- and thus take away the freedom of religion which we enjoy from all people -- including those of us who believe in what Jesus of Nazareth had to say.

Libertarian called them "religion politicians." Don't mistake them for believers, except in themselves. :mad:

[Tanaqui]

Wow. I just read your post and I have to say - I bow to your greatness. That rant outrated mine by soo much!
*claps*

[rsa]

So far, the only responses I have seen in USA Today were two letters to the editor in the Thursday edition. One short letter supporting that bitch, and one even shorter letter (about three or four sentences) taking her to task. I found that dishertening since I know that many, many letters have been sent to USA Today.

But maybe there is a silver lining. Apparently atheists ARE speaking out now. Outraged atheists have absolutly taken over the Kathleen Parker "Chat Room" (actually message board). Tons of posts from Marines, other military atheists, mothers of atheists, a widow of an atheist. Lots of letters people have sent to USA Today as well.

Check it out here and add your voice if you'd like: http://www.kparker.com/chat/chatframeset.html

[rsa]

Here (http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20011004/3508155s.htm) are the USA Today letters to the editor about the Kathleen Parker piece.

'Silent majority' must awaken, stress values

In response to the article by Kathleen Parker: I hope atheists throughout this country will continue to stay silent (''God, country gain fragile new toehold,'' The Forum, Monday).

To allow a tiny percentage of our population to control and decide matters of God and country is wrong.

The silent majority in this land needs to wake up and take the time to pass on to our children the core religious and patriotic values on which our country was founded.

The immense patriotic reaction to the events of Sept. 11 must have opened eyes within some organizations whose sole purpose has been to gradually and silently chip away at the values we have taken for granted for far too long.

If this tragedy returns us to our core values, which are even more important today, then maybe there was some good resulting from these terrible events.

The price of freedom has been paid by many generations of men and women throughout our country's glorious and God-fearing history. It would be a shame if we continued to allow a vocal minority to control and decide matters of church and state.

Bill Anderson

Louisville, Ohio


Enough of bashing atheists

While religion may offer solace and strength in times of tragedy, it is not a requirement for patriotism or morality.

As an atheist, my devotion to this great country comes from the fact that it shows respect and tolerance for all people, regardless of their personal beliefs. I hope that as we wage our war on terrorism we will keep this in mind.

Clint Peterson

Wauwatosa, Wis.

[MEBuckner]

Well, I'm pretty sure that USA Today got more than two letters on the subject, and they sure as hell got more than one letter disagreeing with the column.

[jmonster]

Fantastic. 9.8

Originally posted by MEBuckner
...you get marked down for the redundant references to martian wolves.
Well, I was trying for sort of a theme, y'know?


Unfortunately, the role in the rant that the maritan wolves play (one might call it the zany hyperbole, or the creative absurdity, or possibly the jarbabyisms), does not lend itself well to thematic linking. A rant is certainly improved by having various themes, but the humorous departations from the realm of normality are primarily judged on creativity and novelty, so you'll lose points if there's too much of a theme there.

[InternetLegend]

From the article:
As the audience sang The Battle Hymn of the Republic — joined by yours truly back home in the family room (confess: you did it, too) — it occurred to me that my son doesn't even know the words.
So this self-righteous woman knows what's best for MY children, but she hasn't been taking HERS to church? That's what most of us who want our kids to have a working knowledge of our religions do. Maybe she should take a refresher course in Christianity before she starts preaching to what she thinks is the choir.

Beautiful rant, MEB, and you did a great job of distilling it into such a reasonable letter.

[drachillix]

Originally posted by MEBuckner
Suddenly "God" is everywhere, as ubiquitous as American flags, spreading like mildew in a damp basement.


A cup of bleach in a gallon of water sprayed around the basement will fix that.

Ok maybe we need a couple billion gallons and 500+ firefighting air tankers to spread it in this case.

MEB you are my new rant hero.

Time to start the First Church of Bucknerism!

If I wasn't engaged to Cyn I would offer to marry you.

[MEBuckner]

Well, I have to point out that that bit about comparing God to mildew was actually Kathleen Parker's analogy, not mine.
Time to start the First Church of Bucknerism!
But I'm a militant atheist! I'm against churches! By inspiring people to start a church in my name...

I'VE NEGATED MY OWN EXISTENCE!

Nooooooooo...

[drachillix]

Originally posted by MEBuckner
Well, I have to point out that that bit about comparing God to mildew was actually Kathleen Parker's analogy, not mine.


I realized that was pustule brains statement not yours.


Time to start the First Church of Bucknerism!
But I'm a militant atheist! I'm against churches! By inspiring people to start a church in my name...

I'VE NEGATED MY OWN EXISTENCE!

Nooooooooo... [/QUOTE]

So much for "Frag a Fundie Friday" at the temple of Buckner.
Bowling for BinLadens on Wed nights

I was hoping to be the Church Activity Coordinator!!

Damn!

Would have been a cool sig too

Drachillix-Activity Coordinator 1st Church of Bucknerism

[JDM]

Originally posted by rsa
But maybe there is a silver lining. Apparently atheists ARE speaking out now. Outraged atheists have absolutly taken over the Kathleen Parker "Chat Room" (actually message board). Tons of posts from Marines, other military atheists, mothers of atheists, a widow of an atheist. Lots of letters people have sent to USA Today as well.

Check it out here and add your voice if you'd like: http://www.kparker.com/chat/chatframeset.html

Update here- as of today, KP has closed her chatroom, saying:
Because I welcome children and other civil folk to my website and chat room, I'm forced to close this one down. I had hoped visitors would avoid profanity and play by the rules of civil discourse and am disappointed that so many have chosen the low road. I'll consider reopening it again some day on a membership basis. My apologies to those who used it constructively.

Kathleen


I had actually been impressed by the generally high road taken- many posters disagreed with her, and disagreed strongly, but the verbiage was much less "colorful" than GD, for instance. I wonder how long it will be before she has a column about how the "filthy-mouthed" atheists "forced" her to shut down her chatroom.

Question: in the Army, do they still punish people by forcing them to do KP for a month? Seems cruel and inhuman to me... JDM

[super_head]

Ah, yes, I just went back for a visit to KP's "chat room" (nevermind that it's a message board - probably too much to expect her to be even moderately internet literate) and was greeted by her "Whine, whine, whine, I have to shut the board down, whine, whine" message.

It's amazing how consistently the woman lies - first about atheists in foxholes, then about atheists in the WTC, then about the religious origin of our nation, and now about those "potty-mouthed" atheists who ruined her little site. I would hazard a guess that upwards of 90% of the posts were civil in their tone and merely strongly showed the poster was at odds with the ignorance Kathleen so proudly flaunted (and flaunts to this day) in her columns. Of course, the silent atheists showed her we can make a lot of noise if challenged, and poor little Kathy couldn't take it.

Bitch.

[lenin]

MEB, we can worship you without being in a church! It'll be a monastary, see? And now we shave our heads and bow down in thanks.. Then burn effigies of this whore and kick puppies!

It'll be fun!

-L

[Searching For Truth]

As if it isn't obvious that everyone now worships MEB, I'll throw my adoration in the mix. I was on the phone with ARose, and he read portions of the OP to me, while we laughed hysterically and decided to dedicate the rest of our lives to worshipping your awesomeness, memorizing the OP, and standing on street corners screaming it aloud to the passerby masses..

[sub]So maybe ARose didn't agree with it, and it's just me, but that's just details and who needs details?

[MEBuckner]

I am the LORD thy Ranter.

Thou shalt not kick puppies. (Or kittens, either.)





Also, the idea of a "monastery" is probably even less appealing to me than a "church". A "nunnery" now--something along the lines of the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail--would be an entirely different question. No shaven heads are required.

[iampunha]

Originally posted by MEBuckner
A "nunnery" now--something along the lines of the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail--would be an entirely different question.

Get thee to a nunnery:D

[Derleth]

Buckner, that's exactly how I felt when I responded to this thread: National day of Prayer and Remembrance - no separation of Church and State? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87306)

I just wasn't as eloquent.

[jab1]

Here (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/columnists/orl-edpparker17101701oct17.column), Kathy explains why free speech is a Bad Thing.

I think I know her problem. Charley Reese retired from the Orlando Sentinel in July and now she has to be their High-Paid Nutjob Who Writes Offensive Columns in Order to Boost Circulation. It's actually an easy gig because you don't have to know much.

[OpalCat]

This rant has been submitted to the Page O Flames at the TMHP

http://www.teemingmillions.com

I'm considering moving it, however, to the Classic Posts page...

[MEBuckner]

Well, I'm deeply honored either way.

[matt_mcl]

Glad to see you don't mind. I was rereading this and the PoF at the same time, and I was thinking, so I submitted it. Enjoy your immortality. :)

[The Mick]

I'm afraid I must ask: why so much anger? The Christians are btohering you because they think that if you die, you'll spend eternity in hell being tortured. They care about you, whether or not their beliefs are founded. In their minds, they're trying to save you from eternal pain.

So mellow out and let them do their thing.

[The Mick]

I suppose that I should point out that I was stating that about people who hate crusading fundamentalist Christians. Although I'm a theist, Free Speech and Seperation of Church & State is a different thing. Those should not be infringed, and it's a fool who thinks otherwise.

[MEBuckner]

Hmmm...let's see..."Atheists aren't patriotic Americans"...."There are no atheists who have served their country or faced danger bravely"...."Atheists have persecuted Christians and suppressed Christianity in America so much that children are confused when they hear the word 'God' spoken in public".

Gosh, no, you're right, there's nothing stupid or offensive there.

[Necros]

I'm afraid I must ask: why so much anger? The people poking you in the eye with a sharp stick are bothering you because they think that if they don't poke you, your blood won't get aerated and you'll die. They care about you, whether or not their beliefs are founded. In their minds, they're trying to save you from death. So mellow out and let them poke you in the eye.

[rsa]

Originally posted by The Mick
I'm afraid I must ask: why so much anger? The Christians are btohering you because they think that if you die, you'll spend eternity in hell being tortured. They care about you, whether or not their beliefs are founded. In their minds, they're trying to save you from eternal pain.

So mellow out and let them do their thing.
They sure have a funny way of showing how much they care. I treat Christains with respect as long as they treat me in a like manner. KP was not reaching out to atheists because she cares about us. She was simply preaching to the choir in a dishonest and hateful way.