My next computer RPG... What should it be?

[Gozu Tashoya]

Okay, I just passed Baldur's Gate II, and now I'm back to that "real world" thing I've heard so much about. But I'd rather be playing games....

So, which of the following should my next game be?

Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Pools of Radiance II
Arcanum (with patch, of course ;))

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by KKBattousai
Okay, I just passed Baldur's Gate II, and now I'm back to that "real world" thing I've heard so much about. But I'd rather be playing games....

So, which of the following should my next game be?

Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Pools of Radiance II
Arcanum (with patch, of course ;))

You might want to stay away from PoR2 for a while. It's got some pretty bad bugs right now, and got pushed out the door by the publisher before it was done. I don't think it's as bad as the press it has been getting, but be careful.

I have had Arcanum for a while but haven't played it - my computers were messed up and I couldn't get it to install, and I just yesterday got a new computer. I lent it to a friend and it's going to be hard getting it back. There are some negative reviews, but if you like big open-ended RPGs this is probably the one for you - most of the gripes I have seen are due to balance (the game is challenging UNLESS you play a melee character, which makes it quite easy) and some rather long dungeon crawls that supposedly get monotonous.

Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhall was a quality expansion, lots of neat features, new spells and abilities, insanely difficult monsters. If you liked BGII I'd get this eventually, unless you were starting to get bored with BGII by the end...I was and I appreciated how goood ToB was but I didn't get far into it, was tired of the whole thing by then.

Answer me this - have you played Fallout or Fallout 2 yet? They are some of the best RPGs of all time and if you haven't, you should. Both of them are available together for $9.99 in the bargain bins of various stores that sell computer games - I've seen the package at Target and Wal-Mart, even. If you are a fan of RPGs, you owe it to yourself to get those games. If you have played either of them and liked them, I'd definitely recomend Arcanum, made by many of the same programmers and it's got the same open-ended play to it, with even more customizable characters.

[White Lightning]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Answer me this - have you played Fallout or Fallout 2 yet? They are some of the best RPGs of all time and if you haven't, you should. Both of them are available together for $9.99 in the bargain bins of various stores that sell computer games - I've seen the package at Target and Wal-Mart, even. If you are a fan of RPGs, you owe it to yourself to get those games
Are you kidding me? I have been looking for EXACTLY this item. I played the original Fallout on my dormie's computer my first year at college, but only got about halfway through it, and never got around to getting the 2nd one. But I've been searching bargain bins at stores around my area like Comp USA and Best Buy, I thought I had looked at Target, but maybe I should check again. Because I have to get that game.

[Solomon7t]

Go with Arcanum, its so incredibly awesome. Also, have you played the Fallout RPGS? not Fallout Tactics(I spit on that name). Fallout 1 is the greatest roleplaying game I have played in my entire life, and Fallout 2 is a amazing as well. I would recomend Fallout to anyone at all interested in computer roleplaying games.

[Drastic]

Definitely get the Fallout titles if you haven't played them yet.

Planescape: Torment is a title that cannot be recommended highly enough. One of the best crpgs ever made.

I'm looking forward to Morrowind, which has been pushed back to '02 the last I heard.

[Lok]

You want to get Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal. It qraps up and ends the earlier games to what is supposed to be a satisfying finish.

[sc913]

I'd recommend Baldur's Gate II:Throne of Bhaal as well, especially if you've played through the whole series, but even if you've just played the last game. It's a very good expansion pack, as mentioned above, and it wraps the story up.. Though, like Badtz Maru mentioned, you might want to wait at least a month or so after playing BGII, or you might get tired of the whole thing.

S.

[Gozu Tashoya]

I heard somewhere that Arcanum was a fusion of the best of Baldur's Gate and the best of Fallout. Now, I'm not sure if the review I read was written by someone who decided that steampunk=Fallout or not, but if it is a successful union of the two, then I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, no, I haven't played the Fallout games (yet) - are they that much better than the three options I listed above?

Hm, ToB.... I don't know if I'm tired of BG2, yet. I feel like I might be, but that's because I passed it last night at 3:30 AM and woke up this morning at 8:45 AM (just goes to show how quickly I get tired of this "real world" thing, huh?).

That being said, I really do want to see what my lvl 10 kensai/lvl 15 mage can do after getting all the bonuses (not to mention experience) from the end of BG2:SoA.

Oh, and as a fourth (well, fifth, counting Fallout), I have yet to play the Diablo 2 expansion. Keep in mind that I wasn't that terribly impressed with D2 (passed it on normal difficulty, with a lvl30ish necromancer, then quit). Still, it would be nice to see that new act.

Oh, and I have Madden 2002 to play on my now-dusty PS2 (damn BG2!), with other games on the way....

Heaven forbid I ever get a girlfriend, I'd have absolutely no idea how to allocate my time, then.... :sigh:

[Badtz Maru]

Fallout 2 (the only one I've played) comes about as close to a true pen and paper RPG as any PC game I have seen yet. Character creation is entirely non-random, you have points you can assign to stats and you can choose three skills to specialize in. You can pick a couple of special traits at character creation that give your character special advantages but with drawbacks - i.e. if you choose Small Frame you get more action points but you can carry a lot less, if you choose Fast Metabolism you heal faster but are more susceptible to damage from radiation or poison. After the game starts you get to choose 'Perks' every few levels, which are bonuses that don't have drawbacks. These vary widely, from gaining an extra level to having particular combat advantages to being a 'Kama Sutra Master'. Many of the perks require certain prerequisites - to be a Kama Sutra Master you have to have a certain dexterity and endurance, and I believe your character has to have had sex but I'm not sure on that one.

Combat is turn-based and rather detailed - you can make aimed shots that increase your chance of getting a critical and have other, non-HP related effects on the opponent - you can blind a creature by aiming for it's eyes, shoot it in the arms to reduce it's chance to hit, or if it's running away from you popping it in the leg can slow it down. The armor system is well thought out, armor protects against different kinds of damage differently, and in three ways - it can reduce damage by a fixed amount, reduce damage by a percentage, and reduce the chance that you are hit for damage at all. There is a wide variety of weapons, ranging from primitive melee weapons to real-life modern weapons to futuristic ones.

Conversations are far more important than in any other CRPG I have played - the choices given to you in conversation are based on what your character has found out or done in the game, what your skills are (i.e. if you have a high Science skill you might get more options when talking to a scientist), what your reputation in the game world is, how effective a liar you are, what your intelligence is - basically conversation can have just as many factors effecting it as combat. If you try to tell a lie, it will roll against your Fast Talk skill, if you have a certain Perk you can talk about things you don't really understand (effectively getting the same conversation options that you would get if your Intelligence was a few points higher). If you make a Charismatic, Intelligent, Fast-Talking character you will get a LOT more out of talking to people than if you make an unlikable dull person - you can talk your way out of fights, get people to do things for you they normally wouldn't, etc. What you say to people will effect your reputation, if you are rude to the wrong people word will get around and people will react differently to you.

The game also has a detailed reputation/karma system. Your reputation is based on what people see you doing. If you help people out a lot in one town your reputation will increase and people will treat you like a hero eventually. If you behave villainously the opposite will happen. You can outrun your reputation to an extent, but word gets around - if you stick around in one town for a while doing good deeds, you may see that in neighboring towns you haven't even been to yet your reputation is increasing as well. Likewise, you may do some really evil stuff and then skip town, and be OK for a while in the new town, until word starts getting around how you acted in the last town, I've actually had a character enter town and have the townsfolk be OK with me, and then the next day they are hostile to me because they heard about what I did in the last town. Karma is somewhat like reputation, except that your acts don't have to be witnessed to effect your karma, and it follows you around. It doesn't have as big an effect on how people react, but if you have a really high or low karma it will effect how people treat you regardless of your reputation. Many characters can sense your karma more than others - in one game I did lots of good acts, then travelled far south to a town where nobody had heard of me. I tried to get some training from an evil kung-fu master but he could tell that I was good and refused to help me. There are also special little Karmic Titles that you can get for doing certain things, like Grave Robber or Child Murderer.

The game is also very open-ended. There is very little that you actually HAVE to do to finish the game, and tons of side-quests. Many of the side-quests can be completed in several different ways, with different results. If you've played the game before you can use player knowledge to go pretty much straight to the end-game, though at your low level you won't be able to finish it. It's open-endedness frustrates some people more used to linear RPGs, they don't know what they are supposed to be doing, you have to realize that you do what your character WANTS to do, and no matter where you wander you will pick up information, experience, and gear that will help you finish the game. You can play it like a more linear game, go to the first town, finish all the quests, then go to the next town you have heard about, but you definitely don't have to and I usually don't. You can also play the game as an evil character, though a majority of the quests seem to have a good slant to them and you get a good deal of your experience from finishing quests.

NPCs that join your party are not controlled directly as in Baldur's Gate - you can give them general orders from a menu (like stay close to me, only use burst fire if there's no chance I'll be hit, and use healing kits when you are seriously hurt), but some of the menu options are not allowed for certain characters - you can't order the timid trader to wait until he is about to die before healing himself, nor can you order the crazy tribal to run away at the first sign of danger. You can finish the game without any help from NPCs at all. Some of the NPCs are almost completely worthless (there's an opportunity fairly early on to get married, and your spouse isn't really good at anything but getting killed - you can always sell him/her (or any NPC) to a slaver though).

The game has a lot of dark humor in it, and tons of little pop-cultural references. It's got a few absurd bits, like one character that will explode if you keep fucking him repeatedly, and more than a few Monty Python references. It's quite possible for your character to get addicted to drugs, and depending on the drug this can be very bad for your character, though it can lead to interesting character development (one of my character's first priorities upon entering a new town was to find a dealer for her particular addiction, otherwise she suffered serious penalties).

From what I hear, Arcanum is a lot like the Fallout RPGs, but with a different setting and even more detail.

[therealblaze]

How about on-line RPG? I've beta-tested Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC) and sadly the test period is almost over, but I have had very good experiences with the game.
To my further anguish I do not have a credit card nor access to one, so I will lose my character...
Torment would be my another recommendation.

[Legomancer]

Regarding Throne of Bhall, I was pretty disapponted in the expansion packs for BG1 and Icewind Dale. While they added some cool items and such, I found that they didn't add much else except insanely difficult battles and were only intended to be played more or less after you finished the main game. I guess I was thinking more of expansion packs like the ones for Ultima 7, where more mid-game stuff is added.

Anyway, is Throne of Bhaal more of the same type of stuff - big hard battle for the end of the game? I mean, I'll probably get it anyway, but I'd just like to know what I'm in for.

[lno]

Throne of Bhaal adds two things to the game, an Add-In section and an Add-On section.

The Add-In is a new dungeon that you can explore any times in chapters 2, 3, or 6 - basically, when you're toolin' around the surface of the world. It's called Watcher's Keep, and I'm exploring it now with my 15th level party. I'm learning that they raised the XP cap to 40th level for a reason. Sheeeeit, it's got some tough monsters. Conversely, it's also got some puzzles to solve, so it's not just "Well, we need an expansion, so let's make ... BIGGER monsters!"

The Add-On adds chapters 7, 8, and 9, and continues after your matchup with Irenicus. (That's no spoiler; you know the whole game you're after him.) I haven't gotten to this yet, but I damn well better in the next three weeks, since Civ3 will take all of my gaming time...

So, basically, there's a relatively large mid-game dungeon added to BG2, much like Forge of Virtue or Silver Seed for U7 and U7:II.

[slortar]

FO2 definitely gets my vote--that game pretty much destroyed two weeks of my life.

I've been playing a lot of Daggerfall recently--prepping myself mentally for Morrowind. :D It's old, but it's a heck of a lot of fun. It's probably the most open-ended RPG ever created. Rather samey in most parts, but the size and sheer variety of things you can do makes up for it, IMO.

[DZ42]

Lotsa good suggestions so far, but let me add one more: Icewind Dale.

Very similar to Baldur's Gate I/II - uses the same game engine, same AD&D 2nd (+ a little 3rd) edition rules. An expansion for it is out (Heart of Winter), as well as a free download expansion to the expansion.

If you liked Baldur's Gate, then it's definitely worth a look.
I also plan on checking out Dark Age of Camelot sometime soon - should be very good.

[lno]

Originally posted by DZ42
Very similar to Baldur's Gate I/II - uses the same game engine, same AD&D 2nd (+ a little 3rd) edition rules. An expansion for it is out (Heart of Winter), as well as a free download expansion to the expansion.
Slight nitpick- it uses the BG1 engine plus some doodads, not the BG2 engine.

I enjoyed Icewind Dale / Heart of Winter because it was deliberately mindless. Yeah, there was a 'story', but it was little more than a vehicle to get more and more combats in the game. Going into it knowing that I wasn't going to get a Baldur's Gate-type epic made it enjoyable.

Sort of like reading a cheap fantasy novel; you know it's not aspiring to anything great, so you appreciate it for what it is.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by KKBattousai

Pools of Radiance II

MY GOD MAN! Don't DO IT! Save yourself! (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91776)!

If you had a choice to play Pool of Radiance or gouge your eyes out with rusty spoons that were infected with ebola, a thoughtful man would have to think hard before making a choice*

Fenris
*It's not all that bad, but it was a funny line and, Lord, it ain't good.

[Gozu Tashoya]

Okay, maybe not PoR2.

And that is a great line. :D

[sturmhauke]

I cast another vote for Fallout 1 and 2. Very cool games. It's kinda funny if you make a character that's dumber than a brick, you get lots of verbal abuse from everyone except the super mutants, 'cause they are dumb too. Not to say they might not still kill you, mind. I played the Arcanum demo, and it's similar in that game. I'm torn between buying it and passing my classes... Might and Magic 7 is pretty good too. It's more of a standard CRPG, but still addictive. If you want real old school, get Crusaders of the Dark Savant if you can find it. It's #7 in the Wizardry series I think. Basic hack y slash action, but it has a good selection of skills and classes to choose from. Your characters can change classes and gain new abilities too, but your base stats drop to the minimum for the new class.

[Badtz Maru]

I started playing Arcanum today, and it's a lot like Fallout. I had a bit of trouble with the interface at first, but I'm catching on. The character creation system is pretty sweet...I chose a background of Idiot Savant for my half-elf gambler/thief - he has a very high intelligence, but everybody thinks he's stupid because of the way he talks. It made conversations COMPLETELY different than with my first character, an soulless elven mage (chose a background where your character sold his soul for magical power). Some people are annoyed with my idiot savant, some are extra nice to the 'imbecile'...it's great.

[Demise]

Yeah, here's another vote to skip Pool of Crapulence. I'm bitter about it. Very bitter. Fuckers.

Personally, I'm playing ICO and Dark Cloud for the PS2 while waiting for some more decent RPGs to come out for both the PC and PS2. FFX please!

[Gozu Tashoya]

Demise, did you see the screenshots they're using for Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance for the PS2? Game looks beautiful and, well, it's a BG game!

[Demise]

Oh hell yeah, I was drooling (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2815475,00.html). :)

I'm thinking of picking up Silent Hill 2 (http://www.thegia.com/psx2/shill2/shill2.html) (I know, not a RPG) or Okage (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/0,11114,471237,00.html) to tide me over also. Not to mention the PS2 version of Deus Ex (http://www.thegia.com/psx2/deusex/deusex.html) should be out Nov. 1st.
Grandia II (http://www.thegia.com/dc/grandia2/grandia2.html) should be out a month after that. Lots of good stuff coming down the pipe now, which is good after the slow start RPGs for the PS2 have had so far.

[Badtz Maru]

Just got done playing Arcanum for about 3 hours before coming to work...this is a great game. I just paid 25 coins to have sex with a sheep.

[Gozu Tashoya]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Just got done playing Arcanum for about 3 hours before coming to work...this is a great game. I just paid 25 coins to have sex with a sheep.

It's funny how games imitate life sometimes, isn't it? ;)

[Atreyu]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
I just paid 25 coins to have sex with a sheep.

Dang. Only 25? What did you get, the bulk discount rate? ;)

[Solomon7t]

Heres my opinion on the various RPGs listed here.

AD&D System games (Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, icewind dale, blah blah)- I think AD&D just doesnt work on a computer. I have played Baldurs gate 1 and I stopped playing after a couple hours and never continued, it just wasnt fun to me.

Morrowind- Its not out but I have played the demo of Daggerfall (prequal to Morrowind, which is now avalible as freeware). The demo was very fun. I would have to say Daggerfall is one of the best CRPGs ever, so I will :) . And Im sure Morrowind will be awesome aswell.

Fallout Series (not Fallout:Tactics)- YES! These games are awesome. They surpass all the games in the OP. Best RPG storyline ever, best dialauge (how do you spell that word?), best combat system, best experiance system. Fallout 1 r0x0rs, Fallout 2 is almost as good (but it didnt equal fallout 1).

Arcanum- This game was made by one of the lead creators of Fallout 1 and I have to say its awesome. Its a blend of fantasy and industrial age technology which is very cool. You can be a Rife wielding mage. Its go tons of great features and its really fun.

So I would recomened basicly anything thats been listed here except the AD&D system games. Im probely gonna get flamed but their boring. AD&D is meant to be with other people and a GM, it doesnt work with a computer.

[slortar]

Originally posted by Solomon7t
Heres my opinion on the various RPGs listed here.

AD&D System games (Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, icewind dale, blah blah)- I think AD&D just doesnt work on a computer. I have played Baldurs gate 1 and I stopped playing after a couple hours and never continued, it just wasnt fun to me.

Morrowind- Its not out but I have played the demo of Daggerfall (prequal to Morrowind, which is now avalible as freeware). The demo was very fun. I would have to say Daggerfall is one of the best CRPGs ever, so I will :) . And Im sure Morrowind will be awesome aswell.

Fallout Series (not Fallout:Tactics)- YES! These games are awesome. They surpass all the games in the OP. Best RPG storyline ever, best dialauge (how do you spell that word?), best combat system, best experiance system. Fallout 1 r0x0rs, Fallout 2 is almost as good (but it didnt equal fallout 1).

Arcanum- This game was made by one of the lead creators of Fallout 1 and I have to say its awesome. Its a blend of fantasy and industrial age technology which is very cool. You can be a Rife wielding mage. Its go tons of great features and its really fun.

So I would recomened basicly anything thats been listed here except the AD&D system games. Im probely gonna get flamed but their boring. AD&D is meant to be with other people and a GM, it doesnt work with a computer.

I had the same reaction to Baldur's Gate. As I see it it had 3 crippling game flaws:

1. No run command. Inexcusable. It takes waaay too long to get anywhere.

2. Only 6 character levels + > 80 hours of gameplay. Zzzz.

3. Very limited equipment set. Combine with above...

Considering the last 2 points, and the fact you only got to create one character (the rest joined up later) and there was literally no reason to play certain character classes (for example, a very good thief joins right away, ergo no reason to play a thief...). Blah.

Daggerfall rocks. If you want to check out the full version, you could probably find it somewhere for dirt cheap. Or get it at http://www.theunderdogs.org as a download--although the legality of that is somewhat questionable.

[Ura-Maru]

So I would recomened basicly anything thats been listed here except the AD&D system games. Im probely gonna get flamed but their boring. AD&D is meant to be with other people and a GM, it doesnt work with a computer.

So was GURPS, but that didn't seem to hurt Fallout any. :) AD&D was basically used a brand name, anyway. Successfully, apparently.

Daggerfall seemed very cool, until I tried to talk to someone. A menu with EVERY SINGLE possible conversation option in the entire game, and all but one or two resulting in "I don't know anything about that." I couldn't even get through the first village. And besides, I hate RPGs with that DungeonHack 1st person real time thing . . . but that's just me.

And for the record, Planescape:Torment's dialog and writing was so far beyond Fallouts it's not even in the same time zone. :)

I literally can't say enough good things about Fallout 1/2 and Torment. FO1 was pretty much the model that all subsequent crpgs have used, and had some of the best atmosphere I've found in any game. FO2 had pretty much the best blend of free action and workable plot I've yet found, (as a result, it has a truly disgusting amount of replay value) and Torment somehow managed to combine the best aspects of crpgs and console rpgs, and come up with something not only workable, but actually better than either genre. All had problems (FO1 was way too easy, FO2's NPC system was obviously tacked on and unsatisfactory, the Fallouts have the worst inventory system ever devised (until BG's 16 item limit came around, that is) and too many skills with little use, and both Torment and FO2 had obvious "incomplete" parts) but they're easy to ignore. They really are that good.

And Torment even added a run command. :)

Besides, how many crpgs are there where can you prostitute yourself, sell your buddies into slavery, Sleep with your bosse’s wife/daughter, and have an illegitimate kid if you forget to use a condom?

Sadly, I think they're likely to keep the "best rpgs ever" crown for quite a while. POR2 was, by all accounts, terrible, every review (commercial or just the opinion of someone who's played it) I've heard of Arcanum puts it in the "good ideas, but poor execution" category, (I'm going to get it anyway, of course) and every other RPG on the horizion seems to be multiplayer-centered. And finding out Black Isle's long awaited "Secret Project" was a high-fantasy multiplayer game was just crushing, frankly . . .

--
One of the three people who actually got the Tokyo Decadence reference in FO2 . . .

[Cap'n Crude]

Fallout 2 is a good game, but I gave up on it fairly early. Early for me, anyway -- I only bought it 6 months ago.

If you can get Icewind Dale bundled with its expansion Heart of Winter, I recommend it. I didn't play the expansion, but I've heard good things about it and it looked nice.

I had computer problems with BG2,[/b] so I never got far. My party members kept spontaneously leaving, as though I'd just asked them to leave. This was not because of anything I did -- It was way too early in the game and all my NPCs were happy with me. They'd leave in the middle of combat. Sometimes the main character would leave the party, which shouldn't be possible. Still, it's supposed to be an excellent game, and I'm hoping to get to play it someday.

Right now, I'm waiting for [i]Neverwinter Nights, which should be out early next year, or even before the end of the year. The single-player campaign is supposed to be good, and it can also be used as a client/server online RPG. It's not a MMORPG, but will try to translate the tabletop experience to online, with an option for small persistent worlds -- 64 players max.

[Gozu Tashoya]

Question: Was it Por2 or Neverwinter Nights that was supposed to have a really cool DM/campaign scripting side to it? I've never DMed in real life, but I was looking forward to possibly crafting some stuff.... :(

[Cap'n Crude]

KKBatousai, that would be Neverwinter Nights. The game's main selling point beyond its single-player campaign is the trememndous amount of support there will be for user-created adventures. This includes a robust game master interface, real-time communication, tile sets and scripting tools, Web hosting and matching, the works. Check out http://www.neverwinternights.com for complete information.

[Cap'n Crude]

KKBatousai, that would be Neverwinter Nights. The game's main selling point beyond its single-player campaign is the trememndous amount of support there will be for user-created adventures. This includes a robust game master interface, real-time communication, tile sets and scripting tools, Web hosting and matching, the works. Check out http://www.neverwinternights.com for complete information.