Any landlocked nations with a Naval service?

[evilhanz]

What landlocked nations (past or present) have a Naval service, military or merchant? Under the Convention on the High Seas of 1958 and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea of 1982, landlocked nations are allowed to operate ships under their own flag. The only country that comes to mind is Switzerland. Any others?

[don't ask]

Well in The Sound of Music Captain von Trapp is an Austrian naval officer, which I always thought was odd.

[don't ask]

I just looked in Google and there must be lots.


The 12 landlocked countries are: Afghanistan, Bhutan, Burundi, Ethiopia, Lesotho, Malawi, Nepal, Rwanda, Swaziland, Uganda, Zambia and Zimbabwe


From http://law.uniserve.edu.au/law/pub/icl/mStudies/maritime_studies_90/ms_Security.html

Also Paraquay, Luxembourg, Bolivia.

Maybe you would have to check out Jane's for a list of all navies.

[MEBuckner]

The military forces of both Paraguay (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pa.html#Military) and Bolivia (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bl.html#Military) include separate naval branches. Both countries have international borders with important bodies of water; i.e., the Paraguay River and Lake Titicaca, respectively.

Azerbaijan (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/aj.html#Military), Kazakhstan (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kz.html#Military), and Turkmenistan (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tx.html#Military) all have navies; although none has direct access to the world ocean, all border on the land-locked (and internationally disputed) Caspian Sea.

The army of Malawi (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mi.html#Military) (a significant portion of whose international border is formed by the large Lake Nyasa) includes a "Naval Detachment"; the army of Laos (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/la.html#Military) includes a "riverine element" (much of that country's border with Thailand is formed by the Mekong River).

Ethiopia (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/et.html#Military) became a landlocked nation after Eritrean independence in 1993; former Ethiopian naval bases are now under Eritrean control and the Ethiopian Navy's ships were sold.

Although neither country has a separate maritime military force, the merchant marines of Austria (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/au.html#Trans) and Switzerland (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sz.html#Trans) total 23 and 24 ships, respectively. The merchant marine of Hungary (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/hu.html#Trans) consists of a single ship.

[Tamerlane]

Originally posted by don't ask
Well in The Sound of Music Captain von Trapp is an Austrian naval officer, which I always thought was odd.

He was an officer in the navy of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which pre-1918 had a fairly substantial navy based from Adriatic ports like Fiume :) .

- Tamerlane

[Niobium Knight]

Chad is landlocked too.

[Niobium Knight]

Bulgaria, Romania, Luxembourg, Leichtenstein, Andora, Czech Republic, Zaire, Congo, Central African Republic?

there are loads.

[MEBuckner]

Oops...missed a couple.

The merchant marine of Slovakia (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/lo.html#Trans) includes 3 ships. Luxembourg (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/lu.html#Trans)'s merchant marine includes a whopping 50 ships.
Chad is landlocked too.
Well, yes, but Chad (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cd.html#Trans) has neither a navy nor a merchant marine.

[Niobium Knight]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 12 landlocked countries are: Afghanistan, Bhutan, Burundi, Ethiopia, Lesotho, Malawi, Nepal, Rwanda, Swaziland, Uganda, Zambia and Zimbabwe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



where did you get this info from it is bollox. very incomplete.

[Earthling]

Originally posted by MEBuckner
The military forces of both Paraguay and Bolivia include separate naval branches. Both countries have international borders with important bodies of water; i.e., the Paraguay River and Lake Titicaca, respectively.IIRC, Bolivia also had sea access at one time, before losing it to Chile. They still want it back. But anyway, I got chased out of a Bolivian naval station while visiting Lake Titicaca some years back. Just imagine, without those valiant servicemen, I could've invaded Bolivia! :D

[don't ask]

Originally posted by Niobium Knight
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 12 landlocked countries are: Afghanistan, Bhutan, Burundi, Ethiopia, Lesotho, Malawi, Nepal, Rwanda, Swaziland, Uganda, Zambia and Zimbabwe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



where did you get this info from it is bollox. very incomplete.

From the link below it. It refers only to navies using the Indian Ocean.

[MEBuckner]

Neither Bulgaria (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bu.html#Geo) nor Romania (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ro.html#Geo) is even remotely landlocked. The Democratic Republic of the Congo (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cg.html#Geo) (the former Zaire) has a very short coastline (37 km) at the mouth of the Congo River.

[Niobium Knight]

ah yeah sorry i was guessing from memory about Romania and Bulgaria. my memory isnt too hot.

[MEBuckner]

Ah! The military forces of Uganda (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ug.html#Military) include a "marine unit". Uganda's international borders include a major coastline on the very large Lake Victoria, and stretches on the smaller Lakes Albert and Edward.

don't ask: I don't think that link is saying those landlocked countries necessarily have navies; the question is whether to include them in the "Indian Ocean Region" for geopolitical purposes.

[don't ask]

Oops. Sorry about that.

Carry on.

[Niobium Knight]

how about Laos?

[MEBuckner]

Originally posted by Philistine
IIRC, Bolivia also had sea access at one time, before losing it to Chile. They still want it back. But anyway, I got chased out of a Bolivian naval station while visiting Lake Titicaca some years back. Just imagine, without those valiant servicemen, I could've invaded Bolivia! :D
Yeah, Bolivia lost its coastline in the War of the Pacific (http://www.bartleby.com/65/pa/Pacific.html) back in the 19th Century. I remember coming across an entry for Bolivia in Jane's Fighting Ships back in the early '90's which indicated that the official name of the country's naval force was the "Armada Boliviana". Granted, I think that just means "Bolivian Fleet" in Spanish, it still struck me as pretty funny. (They have apparently since renamed it the less comic-sounding "Fuerza Naval Boliviana"--probably all the other countries kept making fun of them.) I figured at the time it must be some kind of over-compensation for having lost their entire coastline, surely a traumatic event for any nation. IIRC, the commandant of the "Armada Boliviana" (dontcha just wanna click your heels and say "Ole!" when you read that?) at the time was a Vice Admiral; I pictured this guy in a spotless white uniform, a really fancy hat, a dress sword, and a tremendous number of ribbons and medals. The fact that the Armada Boliviana presumably spends much of its time patrolling Lake Titicaca (the world's highest deepest lake with the funniest name) merely adds to the humor.
how about Laos?
How about it? As previously noted, the Lao People's Army includes a "riverine element". But AFAIK there is no Laotian Armada.

[Popup]

Don't forget Switzerland. Definitively land-locked, but with nice lakes.
quoting from Flags of the world (http://www.fotw.net/flags/ch-sea.html#navy):

Switzerland does have a small navy of sorts. Lakes Konstanz and Leman (Geneva) form international frontiers, and their navies consist of a few patrol craft. Switzerland also has a major Rhine commercial fleet (you can see the Swiss flag flying all the way to the Netherlands), which military patrol craft in time of war. Both the navy and air force are branches of the army (like the infantry and artillery).

[grtho]

Under the 1919 Traeaty of Versailles the Czech Republic and Slovakia still have an autonomous port area in Hamburg so are in theory countries with Ocean access.

[pulykamell]

I was about to mention Hungary, but just realized someone already beat me to it...cripes. But a bit of trivia... My friend and I believe that Uzbekistan is the only landlocked country to be bordered completely by landlocked countries.

[MEBuckner]

My friend and I believe that Uzbekistan is the only landlocked country to be bordered completely by landlocked countries.
Counting Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan as landlocked countries (both have borders on the Caspian Sea, and both have navies, but neither borders the world ocean) it is true that Uzbekistan (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uz.html#Geo) is "doubly landlocked". However, Liechtenstein (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ls.html#Geo) is in the same boat. (Okay, sorry...um, same geographic state.)

Also, the army of Burundi (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/by.html#Military) includes "naval and air units" (the former on Lake Tanganikya, I presume) and the armed forces of Rwanda (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rw.html#Military) include a navy; the country's border includes a stretch of coastline on Lake Kivu. Man, these guys are everywhere! They should form a new international organization; the League of Landlocked Naval Powers or something. (The coastless countries which only have merchant marines could be associate members.) And Liechtenstein or Uzbekistan should clearly form a navy, just to say "up yours" to a heartless and uncaring geographical universe. The Uzbeks could at least sail around on the Aral Sea, at least until it dries up completely. The Liechtensteiners have a border on the Rhine they could float a gunboat or two on. Plus, they could sell commissions, and add to their existing philatelic revenue. I mean, lots of people would probably shell out a few bucks to be a Captain of the Liechtensteiner Navy.

Oddly enough, Liechtenstein has signed the Law of the Sea Treaty; God knows why. However, they haven't ratified it. Perhaps the Diet simply felt the rest of the world was just rubbing salt in the wounds to have even brought it up.

[pulykamell]

Yeah, but Liechtenstein borders Italy, which is not landlocked by my definition, nor is Germany really landlocked by my definition either. I've always understood landlocked to mean not having access to the ocean, but most European countries qualify as long as they border a sea which connects directly to the ocean (since you can essentially look at that sea as an extension of the ocean.) So rivers connecting to oceans don't count, but seas do...

[Popup]

Originally posted by pulykamell
Yeah, but Liechtenstein borders Italy,
Not in my book.
Quoting from The CIA world factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ls.html):
Location:Central Europe, between Austria and Switzerland
border countries: Austria 35 km, Switzerland 41 km
Look it up on a map!

[ElvisL1ves]

I was once told that Paraguay does have a navy. It has 1 boat and 12 admirals. Each admiral gets to take a turn commanding the boat for 1 month a year.

[pulykamell]

*blush*

Oh my, I cannot believe I've made such a stupid geographical error. Urgh! And I've driven through it before, too... For some reason I thought it bordered Italy or Germany but, alas, that is not the case. I stand corrected.

[hangs head in shame]

[Darwin's Finch]

Originally posted by ElvisL1ves
I was once told that Paraguay does have a navy. It has 1 boat and 12 admirals. Each admiral gets to take a turn commanding the boat for 1 month a year.

Make that definite BS :)

Here (http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/paraguay/py_appen.html#table11) is a listing of the assets of the Paraguayan Navy as of 1988. The troop strength of the navy at that time numbered 3,150 men.

[JRDelirious]

Another more current Paraguay fleet list:
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/americas.htm#6

They don't seem to have acquired anything major since '85 and have allowed attrition of their pre-1932 stuff. But since the site does not list combatants under 100T nor auxiliaries under 500T, they may be decently equipped with small river-patrol craft and it would not show up. For that same reason the Bolivian, Ugandan, Rwandan, etc. naval services are not listed at all at HazeGray. But seriously, for these countries, SAR and smuggling patrol on the inland waterways is the real need, not surface combatants. Even for some who do have a seacoast but get more out of the rivers, e.g. both Congos.

Anyway the gag ElvisL1ves quoted would not have been too darn far off the mark back when Stroessner ran Paraguay from the 50s thru late 80s -- overall a stereotypical 3rd World dictatorship with an absurd number of Flag/General officers relative to organizational need. Heck, look at the link provided by Darwin's Finch: in 1988 they had "eight divisions of infantry" and the total Army size was... 12,500. Hey, you had to give all those generals a suitable command to keep them happy... and no troops with which to rise up.

[TheeGrumpy]

A Google search brings up one reference to Mongolia's mighty navy (http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/2001/ep8-11.htm#post), but there's not much rich information there.

[manhattan]

Just for the heck of it, Cecil Adams on the Austrian Navy and the Von Trapps (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950707b.html).

[dqa]

I did a report on Liechtenstein in 6th grade, and I seem to recall that they had one boat that patrolled their section of the Rhine. Couldn't find any evidence that this is still the case.

[Slithy Tove]

John Biggins wrote two historical novels about life in Austria's WWI navy, "Sailor of Austria," "The Emperor's Coloured Coat," and a sequel about its air force, "The Two-headed Eagle."

Nothing to add to the OP, just thought I'd stop in and plug a few books.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Originally posted by don't ask
Well in The Sound of Music Captain von Trapp is an Austrian naval officer, which I always thought was odd.

He was an officer in the navy of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which pre-1918 had a fairly substantial navy based from Adriatic ports like Fiume :) .

- Tamerlane

The other famous Austro-Hungarian naval officer was Admiral Horthy, who went on to became dictator of landlocked Hungary.

[Monty]

puly,

Perhaps you meant to mention Andorra?

[slipster]

About ten years ago The Wall Street Journal ran a front page article on the Bolivian Navy. An admiral was quoted as saying that the service was useful in drug interdiction programs as it cruised rivers, and added that it was also important to maintain on the chance that Bolivia had a coastline in the future.

Not that it is really pertinent, but I recall that the legislature of the State of Nebraska, when wishing to bestow an honor on a public servant, will name him or her an Admiral in the state navy.

There is a famous story that William Jennings Bryan, while Secretary of State, mistakenly sent an invitation to the Swiss Navy to participate in a meeting.

[Philosophocles]

San Marino and the Vatican

[EvilGhandi]

Of course an air force would make more sense. But what would stop a land locked country (hypothetical) with a bunch of bucks from flagging a navy?