best pro wrestler ever? The envelope please . . .

[Knighted Vorpal Sword]

. . . and the winner is?

I would like to think that the guys I grew up watching (Bobo Brazil, Bruno Sammartino, Toro and Tanaka, Ivan Putski, Chief Jay Strongbow) could beat any of the sterioded and bloated guys wrestling today, but I'm not sure it would happen. Perhaps there could be a fantasy wresting league, pitting the oldies against the current wrestlers.

The best match I ever saw? Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat against Randy "Macho Man" Savage, at Wrestlemania III I believe.

[Soul Brother Number Two]

oo! oo! the wrestling fans on the board must be tired as hell of me bemoaning the current state of wrestling and pining for the old days. and i dont care.

my vote for bestest pro wrestler ive seen? i gotta list...

jimmy (superfly) snuka. 'from de islands, brudder! paddled over in my canoe!'

'mr. wonderful' paul orndorff. simply the most savage. 'member hed throw the stretcher in the ring before a match?

bob backlund, the peoples champion. the best 'technical' wrestler around.

ricky 'the dragon' steamboat. great martial arts moves and dexterity.

rick martel, from the AWA. another dexterous and very good technical wrestler.

best tag team: adrian adonis and dick murdoch. those guys didnt have to cheat to win, altho often they did, just cuz they could.

best match ive ever seen: terry gordy vs. killer khan in a texas death match. there was so much blood in the ring both guys were slippin around in it.

sniff. i miss wrestling. damn the hulkster. damn his eyes!

[drillrod]

IMHO, only one mahn deserves the title "Best Pro Wrestler Ever" and that's "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair.
A 14 time World Champion who made the good guys great everywhere he went. He took some of the stiffest, clumsiest guys and made them look like geniuses in the ring. His mic skills are incredible, even if, admittedly, he did become a bit of a caricature of himself towards the end of his career.
He was able to maintain a career over 25 years without ever having to reinvent himself.

"In order to BE the man, you've got to BEAT the man! WHOOO!"

[uberDave]

Its a tie. Wahoo McDaniel and Bruno Sammartino. Dem was the good ole days.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Yeah, remember them?

SC didn't get many of the better ones in that organization, though. The good ones went to GA or FL.

But, anyway, there was one guy who called himself "The Destroyer" who came thru this area in the early 70s. If anyone could beat him (other than by disqualification), he would unmask. But no one ever beat him.

A guy I went to school with said that he found out his identity, though. We all said, "Yeah, right." He told us that his father had a friend who worked at a car dealership that had sold "The Destroyer" a car under his real name of (OK, it's been over a quarter of a century, now) "Don Jardine" or "Dan Jardine."

After he left our area, the local announcers did tell who the masked man was, though--and our schoolmate had been right!

I also found that he wrestled in other areas under "The Spoiler," and possibly some other masked names.

I also remember Johnny Valentine. He was a bad guy, but the kind you really had to admire.

Now, if we were going to pick best wrestling announcer of all time--that would be Gordon Solie. No one else even came close.

[plnnr]

George "The Animal" Steele - remember him? He'd chew on the turnbuckle and slobber all over the place. Haystacks Calhoun was another terrific one. And the managers? Captain Lou Albano, the Grand Wizard of Wrestling, and Classy Fred Blassie. Now those were entertaining characters. And don't forget Vince McMahon (sp?) when he was just the doofus promoter and announcer with the pompadour and liver lips.

"McMahon, you pencil-necked geek? No one can beat my man, McMahon."

Channel 20, WWDC, Washington D.C. Saturday mornings.

Of course, throw in a women's match featuring The Fabulous Moola or a tag team made up of dwarves and you've got yourself some serious sport.

[Shawn K.]

I'm a fairly old school fan of wrestling, but I can't stand the new stuff. Anyway, I personally think my favorite wrestler is Sting. But, if we're talking about the best wrestler ever, it'd have to be Ricky The Steamboat Dragon. Too bad he had to retire since his amazing match with Randy Savage. That was the best wrestling match ever.

Also, I believe, if you use all of Ric Flair's titles (between both Feds), it's 17 time world champion. I may be one or two off though. I haven't been in to wrestling in a long time.

[uberDave]

Damn plnner. You made me remember another all timer, IMHO.
Dusty Rhodes, the American Dream.

[King Rat]

Hulk Hogan. His star power took Pro Wrestling from the fringe into the mainstream.

[Knighted Vorpal Sword]

Originally posted by Shawn K.
But, if we're talking about the best wrestler ever, it'd have to be Ricky The Steamboat Dragon.

But of course you mean Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat.

[Heath Doolin]

Going with drill on this

The Nature Boy Rick Flair is the standard people need to measure up too. Equally perfect face and heel, his technical skills were fabulous in the day, he could stand up to the best of them for long long periods of time. And lets not forget those mike skills...he could get people to buy Amway if he wanted to with that stare and that voice.

For team, I vote for the 4 horseman(originals). Again Flair, Arn Anderson (one of the best heels around and the original DDT finisher), Chris Benoit (a wonderful versatle wrestler and just now really shining after nearly 15 years under his belt), and Dean Malenko (another well conditioned wrestler and a consumate professional).

Some others of note:

-The Von Ericks (Bare foot Kerry with his gymnastic like moves)
-Sgt Slaughter (early years- perfected the USA vs Russia standard fare with Nikoli Volkoff and rode it to well done heights. Should have retired a bit sooner though)
-Rowdy Roddy Piper (he is horrible now but man he was good back in the day)
-The Road Warriors (anyone remember their legendary 20 foot ladder match for the tag team supremacy in the early days of wcw? What a work of art that was)

[robgruver]

I have to agree with King Rat about Hulk Hogan. He transformed the sport from tiny arenas to 90,000 seat stadiums in short order.

But, I do have to give Vince McMahon props as well. Without him, wrestling would not be where it is today (wheter you like it or not, you have to admit that it is huge).

[Piell]

My vote goes for Mick Foley, as anyone who saw his HIAC with the Undertaker (who had a broken foot at the time) can understand.

[greenlady]

Okay, I'll be the first female to jump in and cast my vote for......the ROCK.

[minlokwat]

Well, well, well.

When I saw the title of the post, I expected to see a debate over Stone Cold vs. the Rock.

Ivan Putski? Superfly Snuka? Bob Backlund?

You guys make me proud.

Allright, here are a few for you.

For all-time great heals you can't forget Greg the Hammer Valentine or [Don "the Rock" Morocco. Both of these guys could kick serious ass and remained -for the duration of their careers- bad through and through.

A great good guy/Baby Face was the lefty Pedro Morales. Also does anyone remember Rowdy Roddy Piper??? He blurred the lines between good guy / bad guy and hasn't had anyone even remotely approach his level of charisma.

Man, them's were the days.

[Philosophocles]

Based on a combination of wrestling skills, character presence, quality of gimmick and name:

#367 Koko B. Ware (a bit undersized and had some drug problems, but he's got such a cool name, he has to be in the top 500)
#1285 The Red Rooster (should have been higher on the list, but got stuck with a very awful gimmick)
#502 Doink the Clown (his stock fell when he turned face and all the miniature clowns started popping up)
#666 Hulk Hogan (even with the renewal of patriotism, most people would root for the Iron Sheik if they had a rematch today, his matches have always been predictable)
#1286 Akeem the African Dream/One Man Gang (Akeem was one of the few gimmicks worse than the Red Rooster, One Man Gang was a little better, but could be likened to John Candy with a mohawk)
#402 Dino Bravo (A natural blonde, just like Butch Reed)

Randy Savage was a hard worker who had a lot of great matches. Rowdy Roddy Piper was an awesome heel in his prime, though he tarnished his image a bit toward the end. (How many times did he retire and un-retire?) Ted Dibiase was a great heel in his early WWF days. Rick Rude was also good at drawing heat from the crowd. You've got to be amazed at anyone who can survive all the abuse that Mick Foley has taken in his career. George the Animal Steele's apelike ring persona was rather interesting, considering that in real life he has a graduate degree in English literature. I would draw a lot of parallels between Honky Tonk Man and Kurt Angle as a heel (a special knack for being annoying), though Angle obviously has better ring skills than HTM ever did.

[drillrod]

Originally posted by Heath Doolin
Going with drill on this

The Nature Boy Rick Flair is the standard people need to measure up too. Equally perfect face and heel, his technical skills were fabulous in the day, he could stand up to the best of them for long long periods of time. And lets not forget those mike skills...he could get people to buy Amway if he wanted to with that stare and that voice.

For team, I vote for the 4 horseman(originals). Again Flair, Arn Anderson (one of the best heels around and the original DDT finisher), Chris Benoit (a wonderful versatle wrestler and just now really shining after nearly 15 years under his belt), and Dean Malenko (another well conditioned wrestler and a consumate professional).


Thanks Heath, but the orginal 4 horseman were Flair, Arn Anderson, Ole Anderson and Tully Blanchard. Yes, they were the greatest small clique ever in wrestling. Benoit and Malenko, two other personal favorites of mine, along with Steve "Mongo" McMichael, were only horsmen for a very short time. Other notable horsemen include, Lex Luger, Brian Pillman and Paul Roma. There may have been others that are escaping me at the moment.

Of course, the greatest large clique, and possibly the grestest story line EVER in wrestling, was the NWO. But that's a whole other thread in itself.

[capacitor]

The best wrestler ever career-wise has to be Terry Funk. Who else can claim to have won major championship titles in the 60's (NWA World, NWA Tag Team with his brother Dory) and the 90's (ECW World, WWF Tag Team with Cactus Jack).

[craiger]

It's a tossup.
From Reno, Nevada.
The world's most dangeous wrestler:
Dick the Bruiser
or
The wrestler that made Milwaukee famous:
The Crusher

There are no others

[gooti]

Another girlie here and I've been a fan all my life. My choices:

1. Foley - no question about it. Any wrestler with a career like his and who's intelligent enough a book without the help of a collaborator gets my vote. He's also funny as hell so he's good on the mic.

2. Brett Hart - no explaination needed.

3. Jimmy Snuka - without Snuka there would be no Foley.

I'm sure there are a lot of old schoolers I've forgotten about, but those are my top 3.

[Fern Forest]

I'm not a fan but ALL my friends in highschool were, plus I watched those Biography shows on several of them and I really can't believe no one mentioned Andre the Giant yet.

[SPOOFE]

My vote also goes for Foley. The guy took more poundings, beatings, bleedings, breakings, crushings, pokings, rantings, and crackings than anyone else that I can think of. And he kept coming. One night he'd fall 20 feet, and he'd be right back up the next minute, continuing the match. And he'd be back the next night, too, doing the same crazy shit.

If he was tired and sore, that didn't matter: He still gave one hell of a match. Some of the "big guys" today - Stone Cold, the Rock, Triple H - would REALLY slow down in the ring when they got tired. Not Foley. If he was exhausted, he just did even crazier things. That extra girth in his gut must have been one gigantic adrenaline gland.

His mic skills are right up there with the best of the best. He had dozens of moves down pat, and he was never afraid to try new things. And he never had an ego that got in the way of a match... he could sell a move with the best of 'em. But what I loved best about him is that, no matter how painful his match was, he was ALWAYS in character. I've seen the Rock or Austin break so many times it's painful.

So, yeah, Foley gets my vote. Although he's right up there with so many other great ones.

[dead0man]

I'm new to the scene of wrestlin pretty much so I am not all that familor with the old guys. I did watch a little in the mid to late 80's, but very casually and I was just a kid. So I'm only going off the last 2 or 3 years. The "best" current wrestler is the one that sells the most shit. It has little to do with his in ring abilities. The Rock is neither as bad or as good as everybody says he is. The man is THE best on the mic (currently) and he isn't horrible in the ring, there is MUCH worse (think current Undertaker). The "best" in ring is probably Benoit or Angle. Foley is good (hehe) but he isnt the best in ring or on the mic. He stays in charachter because THAT IS HIM. Well Dude Love, Catcus Jack and Mankind aint him but you know what I'm saying. He is a goofy guy in real life that loves (sorta) pain. I highly recommend you read his books if you haven't yet. Very easy to read, funny as hell and quiet insightful.

Dead0man

[hardygrrl]

Surprisingly, I'm not going to say Jeff Hardy.

All time? I'd have to go with Flair or Foley.


I'm very impressed lately with Rob Van Dam.Some may say he's just a spot machine but he pulls off some amazing shit. I had told a friend when RVD debuted (for the second time) with the Alliance, he'd be the break out star. I was right.

[gooti]

Ok, I'll play.

I'm going to have to qualify these by saying that these are my CURRENT favorites. No, not the biggest names, but the ones I like watching best.

1. Chris Benoit. The MAN. No one does it better in the ring. NO ONE. He sells like a mofo and dammit if he doesn't make his shit look the most convincing. (Anyone wanna really take one of his chest chops? I thought not). Psychology, technical ability, submission knowledge and intensity make all his matches good. He can carry anyone to a watchable match. Don't believe me? Have the WWF rehire Viscera. He could do it.

2. Kurt Angle. Angle is great on the stick and has that funny/geek persona down to a T. Angle is as solid as anyone in the ring today and he's only been professional for about 2 years. It's also pretty amazing when you think about what he can do when he has another 3 years of experience under his belt, assuminbg he stays healthy.

3. HHH -- This guy went from boring midcarder to heel # 1 in the busienss. He has to thank Foley for really putting him over when Foley was on his way out for (*cough*) retirement. It'll be interesting to see what happens when he returns from his leg injury, there's a lot of changes since he left. I predfict a fued with RVD. But with Nash and Hall returning in the next couple months, he will very likely have something to do with them as well. Anyway, I'm on a tangent here, but HHH definately earned his spot. He's a stud. He has put on some amazing matches and gutted it out through some nasty spots.


There's a lot of others I like, So honorable mentions go to:

Stone Cold -- the drunken, bird-flipping, "DTA" redneck was as stale as month old bread but his new paranoid shtick (WHAT?) cracks me up. Plus he can get it done in the ring.

Tajiri -- Don't care if he ever learns English. One of the freshest, most interesting workers today. When will he debut the BLUE mist?

RVD -- They're playing their cards right with him. He and Angle are the future of the WWF.

Chris Jericho -- I'm glad they seem to be turning him heel again, he is so much better that way. One of the best interviews (when he's a heel), and decent ringwork. He's still got a long career ahead of him.


Also, to all of you talking of Ric Flair's career in past tense, I'd bite your tongue. He should be back in the WWF within 6 months.

[mouthbreather]

The above post is mine.

[imthjckaz]

Yeah brudder!! Another wrestling thread!!

My all-time favorite rassler- Andre the Giant, size and strength, just awesome.

Larry the Axe Henning, and son Kurt, Verne Gagne are some of the best to come out of Venturasota.

The Guererro's, Hector, Mando and Chavo Sr, were a great high flying tag team, in the L.A. area in the 70's.

Other great tag teams, Steiners, The Road Warriors and Harlem Heat, Stevie Ray and Booker T,10 time WCW champions.

Just thought I'd pass that along.

Cuz, SUCKA's gotta know!!

[mmmiiikkkeee]

I liked Owen Hart back when he was on Stampede Wrestling (I'm from Calgary). After he left that, the other federations didn't do him justice. The British Bulldog also used to be on Stampede Wrestling here... that guy seemed to be way stronger than you though he was. Saw him pick up Vader (what... in around 400+lbs?) and stroll around no problem with the guy on one shoulder like he was a kid... couldn't beleive his back didn't crumple up like an accordian. But then he started getting a little rowdy in real life and I haven't seen much him for a while. Andre as far back as I can remember always seemed to be the bad guy, though I only caught the last few years of his career. OTOH, he was such a good guy in real life that he's probably remembered as one of the best "men who were pro-wrestlers".

[Enola Straight]

Randy Savage vs Rick Steamboat...all time best match.

Bruno Sammartino vs Rick Flair (Both at their primes)...
that would've been the best all time match.

Greg Valentine's Fig. 4 leg-lock...best wrestling move.

[Enola Straight]

Randy Savage vs Rick Steamboat...all time best match.

Bruno Sammartino vs Rick Flair (Both at their primes)...
that would've been the best all time match.

Greg Valentine's Fig. 4 leg-lock...best wrestling move.

[DPWhite]

Andre in his prime (and even past it) could toast anyone else even in their prime if it was a real match. He made everyone else look like Pee Wee Herman.

[Tajiri]

How can a debate over the best wrestler be had without at least one person mentioning THE greatest wrestler of all time...Shawn Michaels. Like him or hate him, HBK busted his ass every match and no one could take a bump like he could. Even with all the talent currently in the WWF, Michaels would still be the man.

[JoeyImage]

Ok, this is a tough one to follow. As a diehard hardcore wrestling fan for about 20 years now (since I was 4-5 years old), and also speaking as a current pro wrestler myself, I tend to answer this question from a different point of view than a normal spectator. The simple reasoning for that is because when I was only a fan/spectator, I was watching to see my favorite good-guy wrestlers beat up my favorite bad-guy wrestlers and win belts. But now, I'm not doing that. What I do now is I watch great babyface workers run a program with great heel workers, as the promoters put titles on them.

What makes a wrestler great is not how perfect he performs his moves, or how mean he sounds when cutting a promo. What makes a worker great is how his opponent looks during any match. The job of a professional worker is to make his opponent look as absolutely excellent as possible. The only person I can think of who has done that in every match I've ever seen of his in the past 20 years is of course, Ric Flair. Granted, right now, I would say the best wrestler of this "new generation" of guys would be a tie between Chris Benoit, and Rob Van Dam. But of all time, I would have to sya Flair.

Some of the names that others brought up are definitely greats, but Flair always had "it". To the person who said The Rock, I can only say that the topic is "greatest wrestler of all time", not "who is your favorite wrestler right now". The Rock barely does more than 3-5 wrestling moves per match now. Basically all he does is a DDT, belly-to-belly suplex, Samoan Drop, an elbow drop, and a spinebuster. He punches too, but I wouldn't classify a punch as a "wrestling move". And his "People's Elbow" is horrible. It is simply an elbow drop, from the mat, not even from the top rope or from anywhere unique. No, just a simple elbow drop, from standing right on the canvas.

I, too, expected a debate on Stone Cold vs The Rock, neither of which are candidates for a "Best Wrestler of All Time" Award. But in reality, Flair could work the Gobbeldy Gooker and make him look like a million bucks.

-Joey Image

[JoeyImage]

How about your top 3-5 personal favorite angles of modern pro wrestling, within the past 10-15 years?

Mine will take a while to type, and I dont have the time right now, but I'd like to hear all of your opinions.

-Joey Image,
NJ Indie Wrestler Extraordinare