View Full Version : Windows XP
I installed XP on my machine at home for the first time last night. All went great, and I like it so far but...
First thing I did was install Zonealarm. And first thing on reboot, it came up saying an unamed proggy was trying to act as a server on some wierd port. Ie also, was trying to act as a server.(it shouldnt). I told it no, and then it cut off all internet access. I rebooted, and once again had access, and Zone Alarm is still blocking it from being a server. Thank God for zonealarm.
capacitor
10-26-2001, 11:04 PM
That was probably one of those auto-update programs. Check your start-up program list and uncheck it.
Originally posted by capacitor
That was probably one of those auto-update programs. Check your start-up program list and uncheck it.
Nah...The autoupdate things are named when they come up and they don't try to act like servers. I've been playing with XP for a while now, only before I was at work on a dedicated network(with no internet access....A secure network between us and the other Defense contractors involved in the JSF program). Since I am the domain admin, I could monitor what it did pretty well. Anyway, this time, since it was on the net, I wanted to see what sorta spyware MS has put in, and it looks like they have a couple. IE, for instance, should never try and act as a server, and not on port 32xxx or whatever in any case. Just goes to show, you cant trust anybody these days(MS and spyware? I'm shocked..)
capacitor
10-27-2001, 01:27 AM
You know what's funny? Netscape 6.1 tried to get server access on my system as well, and it triggered Zone Alarm. I said yes at first to see what it would do. Never again; the popups went around my Proxomitron proxy. One of those windows asked for a personal profile. Monopolies are thinking alike, no.
So, let's seee. Windows XP has spyware, in addition to being an mp3 crippler as well as being a hassle to upgrade parts. Hmm, I'll hold back until I get a computer that I know I won't be changing parts or download music in.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 01:34 AM
XP has NO spyware and in NO way cripples XP, and I disagree about reactivation being a hassle.
Gee, we're back to step one.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 01:36 AM
Oops. "in NO way cripples XP" should be "in NO way cripples Mp3's".
Well, I like XP, and I like Microsoft(it is because of them that I can make my mortgage payments). The activation thing is a non-issue for me. I will never use it, there are easy ways around it. It doesnt effect someone like myself. I have enough music software to do anything I want with MP3s. I am not one of those paranoid microsoft sucks and is trying to take over the world types. BUT...to say it doesnt contain spyware is naive. The fact that unidentified apps try to open up non-standard ports upon the os being installed is a security hole, and is in fact, spyware. There is no justifiable reason that an os should do this, and since network security is a part of my job and my training, I have to be a little concerned about this. Once again, thank God for zonealarm.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 02:05 AM
Well, it's odd, because my Windows XP didn't try to load any unidentified apps that try to open non-standard ports. Neither did my friend's computer.
Originally posted by Monster104
Well, it's odd, because my Windows XP didn't try to load any unidentified apps that try to open non-standard ports. Neither did my friend's computer.
Thanks for the info. Thats good to know. What security apps were you running to alert you to it? I know you have been running it since before Zonealarm came out with an XP version, because I seem to remember you posting about running it back when I first started running it at work. Incedentally, since Zone alarm first shut down those first too or three attempts, it has be pretty well behaved. The network I ran it on at work I wasnt too worried, because like I said, it was a secure isolated network, so I didnt worry about not running Zonealarm.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 04:05 AM
Currently I do not have net security apps installed on my computer, as I have my router/firewall with NAT as my default gateway. The firewall is set to log any incoming/outgoing access attempts, and it logged nothing that resembles the behavior you described.
Is Windows Update set to check for updates automatically?
Marcus
10-27-2001, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Monster104
XP has NO spyware..
I'm sorry, Monster104, but I don't think that you can really say this with any authority unless you have thoroughly browsed the entire source code of XP.
One of the problems with proprietary software (in this case I mean any software that is not supplied with the source code) is that you can never know what it's doing under the covers. ZoneAlarm has caught two instances of attempted external connections. Without seeing the source code, it is not possible to say what these were, and how many others there are buried in the code.
Whammo
10-27-2001, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by Monster104
XP has NO spyware
Well... maybe.. maybe not. it does have a function that if you get an error that ends a program it asks you if you want to sent that to microsoft for their database (so the common errors can be fixed) if you do opt for that (which on the surface DOES sound good) it for SOME reason records your IP... Hmmmm....
and then theres the whole authentication thing that records many hardware aspects about your computer including mac address and such and if you replace some hardware your required to authenticate again... though I dont have to worry about that with my *ahem* final version of pro I got weeks ago. hehe.
SPOOFE
10-27-2001, 05:52 AM
it does have a function that if you get an error that ends a program it asks you if you want to sent that to microsoft for their database (so the common errors can be fixed) if you do opt for that (which on the surface DOES sound good) it for SOME reason records your IP... Hmmmm....
Yeah, that's so sinister. It should be stopped, at all costs. In fact, there's another, terrible, horrible, evil, Nazi-worshipping group that also records your IP for SOME reason. You can find their website here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php).
Scary, no?
Monster104
10-27-2001, 06:00 AM
I'm sorry, Monster104, but I don't think that you can really say this with any authority unless you have thoroughly browsed the entire source code of XP.
And I counter that people cannot say that there IS spyware in XP without some kind of proof. Right now, only bdgr has some kind of indication that there is spyware. This has my interest, as everything I've read indicates no spyware, and my personal experience with the software indicates no spyware.
I am completely willing to withdraw my statement in the future if it comes to light that there is a strong possibility of spyware. And since I can't say for sure whether there is or not (since, like you said, I haven't browsed the source code), I will simply revise my statement to "everything I've researched indicates that there is no spyware in Windows XP".
Whammo: Since both of those functions are well-known (the first also being completely optional), they are not spyware. Also, activation does not send any personally identifiable information.
Originally posted by Monster104
Currently I do not have net security apps installed on my computer, as I have my router/firewall with NAT as my default gateway. The firewall is set to log any incoming/outgoing access attempts, and it logged nothing that resembles the behavior you described.
Is Windows Update set to check for updates automatically?
Ahh....You see, if it setting it self up as a server, trying to monitor an incoming port, then the firewall wont know a thing about it until something tries to hit it. Since it is not sending anything out, the firewall cant detect it. I have a firewall too, but that is why I keep running zonealarm, because it can detect things a firewall can't. Download it and install it for a while. Let me know what it catches(or doesnt). Since I first installed zone alarm on my machine a while back, I have caught several spyware proggys from all sorts of places. One of my kids games (from a well know software company), installed a spyware app. Zonealarm caught it right off the bat.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 02:46 PM
Hey, thanks, I didn't know that. I'll install ZA and let you know.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 03:30 PM
By the way...from CNET.
A number of the updates are critical, meaning they affect Windows XP security. One 5.2MB update addresses a security vulnerability with the Microsoft virtual machine used for displaying some Web content. Another 1.9MB update addresses a security hole in Internet Explorer 6; the problem also occurs in Internet Explorer 5.5.
You might want to check these out. I'm wondering if these might be causing the alerts you caught. (I have these updates, and ZA hasn't detected anything other than another computer on my network trying to access a share).
Greathouse
10-27-2001, 05:24 PM
Ok, I work for MS, but nothing I am about to say is in no way to be taken as official MS.
I have been using XP Pro since beta1 (and .Net/2002 server since build 1580) and even if you think that there maybe "spyware" or anything else going on behind the scenes you still must admit that it is a much better and more stable OS than any of our previous offerings. All of my information (including MSONLY info) indicates that there is no "spyware".
port 32xxx or whatever
Can you give a specific port number(s)? I may be able to find out exactly what you blocked with some more specific info.
If you have access to it as an administrator I would suggest installing NetMon to see what traffic was being passed on the port, but usually ports that high are ephemeral and used for things such as streaming media (not only streaming media though).
The fact that unidentified apps try to open up non-standard ports upon the os being installed is a security hole, and is in fact, spyware.
this may very well have been the code checking itself at boot (which it does). How do you know that something did not have a connection to your machine prior to installation and after the reboot it was not just trying to re-establish the connection. This would not be our software, but rather you possible being scanned/attacked externally prior to the reboot and then you new software notifying you and closing the port.
and then theres the whole authentication thing that records many hardware aspects about your computer including mac address and such and if you replace some hardware your required to authenticate again... though I dont have to worry about that with my *ahem* final version of pro I got weeks ago. hehe.
The hardware information is not uploaded to us. It is set as an encrytion key that is specific to the hardware in your machine. The encrytion key is sent to the database and then an activation code is generated based on the encryted string of bits uploaded. We cannot see what kind of Video card you are using, and frankly we don't care. The reason it makes you reactivate is so that when you give your copy to someone else or install it on another one of your machine, it will generate a different encrytption key (based on the new machines hardware) and try to match that key with what was uploaded during the original activation. When these do not match you are asked to call and activate it over the phone. This is just to keep the honest people honest.
So, let's seee. Windows XP has spyware, in addition to being an mp3 crippler as well as being a hassle to upgrade parts.
What exactly do you mean by crippling MP3s? I have ripped CDs to MP3 and am listening to my MP3s right now. I don't know what you are referring to.
I am not nitpicking the posts. If it seems I am then I apologize, I am just trying to get more information in most cases or clear up misconceptions in others.
pesch
10-27-2001, 06:04 PM
Regarding the MP3 issue, I have to base this on my memory (of reading the news wires, not "this is what a friend told me") that Microsoft's audio software allows for the recording of MP3s, but the result will not be as good as what you can get currently with existing software.
I can't give you the exact information, whether the article was referring to a reduced bit rate or mHz, but this is what I do remember from the article.
Greathouse
10-27-2001, 06:36 PM
Any MP3 ripping capabilities that are provided by Windows XP are in the Operating System as a "value-add" component. They are not intended to be the top of the line, premier application of this sort. If a user is a true audiophile and needs superior quality then it is recommended that they use a 3rd party application for their needs.
Just like Word Pad was never intended to be a true word processor. It is honestly in the OS for us to test fonts when a customer has problems. It is the same type of thing.
Originally posted by Greathouse
I have been using XP Pro since beta1 (and .Net/2002 server since build 1580) and even if you think that there maybe "spyware" or anything else going on behind the scenes you still must admit that it is a much better and more stable OS than any of our previous offerings.
I agree....Well..Dos 6.22 was pretty good, but other than that, your right, I love it so far.
All of my information (including MSONLY info) indicates that there is no "spyware".
port 32xxx or whatever
Can you give a specific port number(s)? I may be able to find out exactly what you blocked with some more specific info.
No, unfortunatly I didn't write it down, and the log in Zonealarm is not the best. All I remember is that the name of the ap was blank, and it was a high port number 32xxx(IIRC)
If you have access to it as an administrator I would suggest installing NetMon to see what traffic was being passed on the port, but usually ports that high are ephemeral and used for things such as streaming media (not only streaming media though).
The fact that unidentified apps try to open up non-standard ports upon the os being installed is a security hole, and is in fact, spyware.
this may very well have been the code checking itself at boot (which it does). How do you know that something did not have a connection to your machine prior to installation and after the reboot it was not just trying to re-establish the connection. This would not be our software, but rather you possible being scanned/attacked externally prior to the reboot and then you new software notifying you and closing the port.
well, It is behind a firewall, and the only other machines on this side of the firewall are mine. Also, it wasnt incomming trafic, but a local program trying to act as a server. IE also tried to act as a server at one point(which, being a browser, it has no business doing
I am not nitpicking the posts. If it seems I am then I apologize, I am just trying to get more information in most cases or clear up misconceptions in others.
Good to have you here Greathouse, I appreciate any info.
Overall, I like it so far, my only reall bitches (other than the ones we are talking about),are:
[list=1]
My cd software got killed again. When win2k came out, that was everybodys big bitch, cd creator and others wouldnt run until there was an update. I had hoped MS would try to prevent this on this go around. Now, I'm waiting on an update again.
Why is the built in CDR software so damn slow? It takes it longer to prepare to burn a cd than it takes it burn the cd. It should have to recopy all the files, and build an image. Is there a way to turn this off, so it will burn on the fly?
[/list=1]
OTher than that, everything seems fine.
Monster104
10-27-2001, 07:08 PM
Nero works on mine, FWIW.
VenusGirlTrap
10-27-2001, 07:11 PM
I have Windows ME right now and I've been thinking about upgrading. Do you think it's a good idea? I have a Dell with 1GHZ and 256MB ram. I also have plenty of memory, something like 35 gigs. Also, I'm totally computer illeterate; is it easy to install?
Originally posted by Monster104
Nero works on mine, FWIW.
Yeah, mine too. But I like roxio cd-creator(formerly adaptec), for some things.
Greathouse
10-27-2001, 07:20 PM
I have Windows ME right now and I've been thinking about upgrading. Do you think it's a good idea? I have a Dell with 1GHZ and 256MB ram. I also have plenty of memory, something like 35 gigs. Also, I'm totally computer illeterate; is it easy to install?
First, let me start off by apologizing for ME. WOW, what a stinking heap that was. :)
As far as an upgrade goes, I have not had any problems myself, but those were mostly on test boxes with few if any 3rd party apps installed. I would honestly recommend a clean install of XP rather than an upgrade. And I would also (and always) recommend XP Pro rather than Home Edition. The extra features included with XP Pro make it worth the extra $50.
Originally posted by VenusGirlTrap
I have Windows ME right now and I've been thinking about upgrading. Do you think it's a good idea? I have a Dell with 1GHZ and 256MB ram. I also have plenty of memory, something like 35 gigs. Also, I'm totally computer illeterate; is it easy to install?
I would, its very easy to install. If your on a cablemodem, just get zonealarm....In fact, if you have a cablemodem, you need zonealarm anyway. Its free, and it is good protection.
Greathouse
10-27-2001, 07:29 PM
Also, it wasnt incomming trafic, but a local program trying to act as a server. IE also tried to act as a server at one point(which, being a browser, it has no business doing)
The version of Netmon that installs with Win 2K will only monitor incoming packets, but the full version that ships with SMS can monitor communications between any other machines on the network that have SNMP installed. But if this your only machine then I guess it is a moot point since it would need to be on a server. :) If you had a another machine to setup as a server then it may be possible to get a 120 day eval version of the full NetMon. (I would not as an employee be able to send that out)
--Had to cover my ass there-- ;)
IE may try to act as a browser if malicious code is entered into a website that tries to exploit the Code Red Worm. This is not common, but is possible. There may be other reasons, but this is the one I see on a daily basis. As a general rule I have to agree with your statement. I cannot think of a good reason for the browsert to act as a server, but I am not a developer so there may be valid reasons I am not aware of, or can't think of right now.
Originally posted by Greathouse
I have Windows ME right now and I've been thinking about upgrading. Do you think it's a good idea? I have a Dell with 1GHZ and 256MB ram. I also have plenty of memory, something like 35 gigs. Also, I'm totally computer illeterate; is it easy to install?
First, let me start off by apologizing for ME. WOW, what a stinking heap that was. :)
As far as an upgrade goes, I have not had any problems myself, but those were mostly on test boxes with few if any 3rd party apps installed. I would honestly recommend a clean install of XP rather than an upgrade. And I would also (and always) recommend XP Pro rather than Home Edition. The extra features included with XP Pro make it worth the extra $50.
I have done a couple of upgrades from me to XP, and from 2k to xp, and had zero problems. I was really impressed by how smooth it upgrades
Greathouse
10-27-2001, 07:33 PM
I have done a couple of upgrades from me to XP, and from 2k to xp, and had zero problems. I was really impressed by how smooth it upgrades
You have no idea how happy I am to hear that. Mostly all I get hear is how my boss is the Anti-Christ and how my company suck. I love it when someone talks about their good experiences with MS products. I usually only get to hear about bad experiences.
Originally posted by Greathouse
I have done a couple of upgrades from me to XP, and from 2k to xp, and had zero problems. I was really impressed by how smooth it upgrades
You have no idea how happy I am to hear that. Mostly all I get hear is how my boss is the Anti-Christ and how my company suck. I love it when someone talks about their good experiences with MS products. I usually only get to hear about bad experiences.
My first experiances with Microsoft products were with the basic intrepters they wrote for Tandy and TI back in the late '70s. I have used every version of dos and windows(I still have a copy of windows 1.something somewhere....you talk about a useless waste of ones and zeros....) Although I dislike some of microsofts tactics from time to time, for the most part their stuff isn't bad. NOBODY can write an operating system this complex, and not have a few bugs...At least I hope not, cuz there is still that house I have to pay for. I work on a 14,000 user network, all but a couple of k of those are MS machines, and it works supriseingly well. I have a lot of respect for Linux, but put 10,000 computer illiterates on 10,000 linux machines 8 hours a day and youll really see a disaster.
Darkrabbit
10-28-2001, 01:24 AM
Greathouse ... [i]Mostly all I get hear is how my boss is the Anti-Christ and how my company suck.[/B]
Well, he is and it does but there are a lot of great people working for Microsoft and a few of them are my friends so some transgressions may be forgiven. :D
My copy of XP Pro arrives Monday along with my free loot so I'll give it a chance.
DarkRabbit
Whammo
10-28-2001, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by SPOOFE
Yeah, that's so sinister. It should be stopped, at all costs. In fact, there's another, terrible, horrible, evil, Nazi-worshipping group that also records your IP for SOME reason. You can find their website here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php).
Scary, no?
Don't be a numbfuck. I didn't say there was anything sinister, I was simply saying they record information that COULD be used to track your net usage if so inclined. Next time take your smart ass and shove a toothbrush in it. ;)
Also Monster... when you say that authentication doesnt record any personal information... well.. whats personal? If not your name, address and phone number (which we all know is personal... but they dont record that) how about your computers name, address and serial number? Trust me, the info that they get from your machine is VERY personal info of your machine. With just your MAC address alone your internet movements can be recorded.
NOW, that said... do I think they are DOING that to everyone with XP? Hell no! Its simply for security. HOWEVER the means are there if they were so inclined.
Is that Spyware.. well.. no.
It could be close.. thats all I'm saying.
All this aside... Would I give it up for the reasons I stated? Fuck no! I LOVE my XP!! Best OS yet!
SPOOFE
10-28-2001, 01:28 AM
Don't be a numbfuck. I didn't say there was anything sinister, I was simply saying they record information that COULD be used to track your net usage if so inclined. Next time take your smart ass and shove a toothbrush in it.
And "don't be a numbfuck" right back atcha. Please provide a cite where I ever said that you referred to IP logging as "sinister". And try to keep the personal insults out of MPSIMS, please.
Monster104
10-28-2001, 01:56 AM
Also Monster... when you say that authentication doesnt record any personal information... well.. whats personal? If not your name, address and phone number (which we all know is personal... but they dont record that) how about your computers name, address and serial number? Trust me, the info that they get from your machine is VERY personal info of your machine. With just your MAC address alone your internet movements can be recorded.
Here ya go:
Also Monster... when you say that authentication doesnt record any personal information... well.. whats personal? If not your name, address and phone number (which we all know is personal... but they dont record that) how about your computers name, address and serial number? Trust me, the info that they get from your machine is VERY personal info of your machine. With just your MAC address alone your internet movements can be recorded.
Monster104
10-28-2001, 01:57 AM
God DAMMIT and I am an idiot. :rolleyes:
Nix that second fucked up quote, and replace it with this:
The hardware information is not uploaded to us. It is set as an encrytion key that is specific to the hardware in your machine. The encrytion key is sent to the database and then an activation code is generated based on the encryted string of bits uploaded. We cannot see what kind of Video card you are using, and frankly we don't care. The reason it makes you reactivate is so that when you give your copy to someone else or install it on another one of your machine, it will generate a different encrytption key (based on the new machines hardware) and try to match that key with what was uploaded during the original activation. When these do not match you are asked to call and activate it over the phone. This is just to keep the honest people honest.
:sigh:
Whammo
10-28-2001, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by Monster104
The hardware information is not uploaded to us. It is set as an encrytion key that is specific to the hardware in your machine. The encrytion key is sent to the database and then an activation code is generated based on the encryted string of bits uploaded. We cannot see what kind of Video card you are using, and frankly we don't care. The reason it makes you reactivate is so that when you give your copy to someone else or install it on another one of your machine, it will generate a different encrytption key (based on the new machines hardware) and try to match that key with what was uploaded during the original activation. When these do not match you are asked to call and activate it over the phone. This is just to keep the honest people honest.
:sigh:
Hmm... thats interesting Monster... I assume that came from a microsoft webpage. Can you send me the URL? I'd like to read further. BTW thanks.
Spoofe... well, I thought I quoted you, but perhaps I misread..
originaly posted by spoofe--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whammo------------------ it does have a function that if you get an error that ends a program it asks you if you want to sent that to microsoft for their database (so the common errors can be fixed) if you do opt for that (which on the surface DOES sound good) it for SOME reason records your IP... Hmmmm....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's so sinister. It should be stopped, at all costs. In fact, there's another, terrible, horrible, evil, Nazi-worshipping group that also records your IP for SOME reason. You can find their website here.
Scary, no?----------------------
Oh man.. I cant fucking figure out this quoting shit... anyway. Maybe you can figure out the parts Im trying to quote and who wrote 'em. I give up.
Monster104
10-28-2001, 06:28 AM
Whammo, Greathouse explained it with what I quoted earlier in this thread.
Hey folks, its just an operating systems and this isn't the pit. Could we perhaps tone it down a bit and get back to the discussion at hand?
Purd Werfect
10-28-2001, 07:38 AM
One thing I've heard about XP is that it has better game compatibility. Is this true? I would like to replay some older 95, 98, and DOS games, but I currently have Win2k. While it's nice and stable for working, it won't let me play Pod Racer.
Greathouse
10-28-2001, 10:01 AM
Hmm... thats interesting Monster... I assume that came from a microsoft webpage. Can you send me the URL? I'd like to read further. BTW thanks.
Here is a web site that explains activation.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/overviews/activation.asp
Here is the part I was referring to in my post:
Product Activation works by verifying that a software program's product key has not been used on more personal computers than intended by the software's license. You must use the product key in order to install the software and then it is transformed into an installation ID number. You use an activation wizard to provide the installation ID number to Microsoft either through a secure transfer over the Internet, or by telephone. A confirmation ID is sent back to your machine to activate your product.
The installation ID number includes an encrypted form of the product ID and a hardware hash, or checksum. No personally identifying data is included or required. The confirmation ID is simply an unlocking code for the Windows XP installation on that particular PC.
If you overhaul your computer by replacing a substantial number of hardware components, it may appear to be a different PC. You may have to reactivate Windows XP. If this should occur, you can call the telephone number displayed on the activation screen to reactivate the software.
The hardware hash that the web site mentions is generated off of the PC's individual PCI bus. This information does not include hardware specifics, just enough information to generate a PC specific hash. I'll keep looking to find a cite to quote on this, but I am working off of internal training documents. I can't get to specific about what information it collects or how it collects it until I find a public posting of it (since I like my job and wanna keep it). :)
Greathouse
10-28-2001, 10:04 AM
One thing I've heard about XP is that it has better game compatibility. Is this true? I would like to replay some older 95, 98, and DOS games, but I currently have Win2k. While it's nice and stable for working, it won't let me play Pod Racer.
I haven't played many old games on XP. The only game I know of that has problems is Dark Ages of Camelot. Everytime you quit the game it generates a blue screen with a Stop:0x20.
After a reboot it works fine. This is a problem with the game though and not the OS. The makers specifically state on their site that they know about it and don't plan on patching it.
I know Operation Flashpoint and halflife run just fine.
Monster104
10-28-2001, 01:32 PM
I've gotten games as far back as Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers to work on XP, but when you go that far back, you'll start finding more games that are incompatible. It really depends then on how the game was programmed.
Max Harvey
10-28-2001, 01:49 PM
Some questions for those of you with XP:
1. Does it handle memory leaks and resources better than 98SE? I use a lot of graphics apps and even with 384MB RAM and MemMax I have to reboot every hour or so.
2. Is there a lot of "happy crap" such as "My" Computer, "My" Documents, that flying "Click Here To Begin" taskbar arrow, the paper clip (I know that one's in Office, just using it as an example)? If so is it possible to turn them off?
3. Is the DOS shell gone? That's still the best for pinging and trace routes IMO.
3. How customizable is the interface? Any built-in "skinning" capability? I really hate those Fisher-Price menus and buttons.
handy
10-28-2001, 02:10 PM
I spend a couple hours doing a Me network but then I remembered that I have to have NetBeui on to get them to network. Well, I did that & it works fine. Thing is, XP, does NOT support this protocol. sigh
VenusGirlTrap
10-28-2001, 02:16 PM
I have a few questions and statements. I really don't want to clean install because of the price. I also don't want to upgrade to pro, again because of the price. One thing I need help with is how to get excel cheap. My school wants to charge me $219 for all this shit I don't even want, I just want excel. It is really driving me crazy, any suggestions?
PS- I'm a starving and cheap college student.
Originally posted by Max Harvey
Some questions for those of you with XP:
1. Does it handle memory leaks and resources better than 98SE? I use a lot of graphics apps and even with 384MB RAM and MemMax I have to reboot every hour or so.
[\quote][\b]Time will tell, but if you have to reboot every hour or so, theres another problem. My machine, even when I ran win98se, stayed up for weeks at a time.[quote][b]
2. Is there a lot of "happy crap" such as "My" Computer, "My" Documents, that flying "Click Here To Begin" taskbar arrow, the paper clip (I know that one's in Office, just using it as an example)? If so is it possible to turn them off?
[\quote][\b]yes, and I havent really looked into it.[quote][b]
3. Is the DOS shell gone? That's still the best for pinging and trace routes IMO.
[\quote][\b]DOS is still there.[quote][b]
3. How customizable is the interface? Any built-in "skinning" capability? I really hate those Fisher-Price menus and buttons.
[\quote][\b]you can go back to the old style look easy enough. I kinda like the new look...Something differant[quote][b]
Originally posted by handy
I spend a couple hours doing a Me network but then I remembered that I have to have NetBeui on to get them to network. Well, I did that & it works fine. Thing is, XP, does NOT support this protocol. sigh
Nor should it. That protocol is dead as a hammer. Use TCPIP instead.
Monster104
10-28-2001, 02:25 PM
DOS is gone. XP uses Command Prompt instead.
John487
10-28-2001, 03:16 PM
talking with a friend from evil Microsoft who has seen the XP source code, there's no spyware.
you know if there was spyware, MS'd be setting themselves up for a good reaming, right? ;)
fyi, there are already cracked-out versions of XP, minus the registration floating about, believe it or not (i've seen one myself). looks like the vast outflow of MS products can't avoid being pirated.
anyway, i have XP-Pro and i can't complain.
refined, stable-so-far, and fluid.
anyone else notice the boot time optimization? :cool:
Originally posted by Monster104
DOS is gone. XP uses Command Prompt instead.
If you hit run and type command, you get a window that says windows DOS, but there is no boot to command prompt
Originally posted by John487
talking with a friend from evil Microsoft who has seen the XP source code, there's no spyware.
Do you have any concept on how big the source code for something like XP is??????Good lord, you friend could look throught it for a lifetime and never finish it...Assuming of course that anyone could ever get access to ALL the source, which I doubt there are many who do. The programmers are gonna get relevant parts of the source, not the whole thing...thats just basic security. You dont put the whole thing in one place.
you know if there was spyware, MS'd be setting themselves up for a good reaming, right? ;)
When has that ever stopped them.
fyi, there are already cracked-out versions of XP, minus the registration floating about, believe it or not (i've seen one myself). looks like the vast outflow of MS products can't avoid being pirated.
yep
anyway, i have XP-Pro and i can't complain.
refined, stable-so-far, and fluid.
anyone else notice the boot time optimization? :cool:
heresiarch
10-28-2001, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by VenusGirlTrap
I have a few questions and statements. I really don't want to clean install because of the price.
Why would a clean install cost more? You can buy the upgrade version even if you are going to format your C: drive and start fresh. The XP installation will at some point ask you to pop in the CD for the previous version to verify that you qualify for the upgrade.
Now, if your computer came with Windows installed and you don't have a CD, that might be a problem. XP would probably accept a system restore disk as verification, but I wouldn't risk it unless I knew for sure. Do you have Norton Ghost or Drive Image?
Sorry, I can't help with Excel.
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