Please stop picking fights with me.

[Esprix]

You know who you are, and it's getting tiresome. Now go away and leave me alone, as I simply do not have the time to keep up with you all.

Thank you.

Esprix

[Stoid]

You talking to me? You talkin' to ME? YOU TALKIN TO ME?

Oh, I guess you're not.

Never mind.


Pardon...I"ve ALWAYS wanted to say this:

Linkety-link-link-link?
Der Linktenstein?
Linkeroonionio?
Linkmaster 5000?
Link me over in the clover lay me down do it again do it again?
Linkiosity?
The Linkman?
The Lord of The Link?
Wiliam Shakespeare's "The Tragedy of Link"
Clive Barker's "HellLink"

[Nocturne]

"Link a virgin?"

[FisherQueen]

I don't have the courage to pick a fight with you, Mr. Esprix, sir.

[Drastic]

"Does this bug you? I'm not touching you! What, what's the matter, I'm not doing anything. You gonna cry, huh, you gonna cry?"

"MOMMM!!!"

Sir Link-a-Lot, the Pure?

[Stoid]

God Bless AmeriLink?
Osama Bin Linken?
B-52 Linker?
Lather, Link, Repeat?
Where do you want to link today?
Link different?
You're linking in it?
Ask Mikey, he links everything?

[spheric thor]

You linking to me?...You linking to me?... You must be linking to me.

[RevisionistHistoryChannel]

Maybe you should ask yourself why people pick fights with you. Is it because you pick fights with other people? That's one way to "set the tone". Most people who don't pick fights don't get picked on, you know.

[Torgo]

Well as my grandma used to say, you can pick your nose but you can't pick your fights.

[Moirai]

Ooh, this should be fun to watch. Have you lurked much, RevisionistHistoryChannel?

Too bad I can't hang around, it should be interesting.

[JDeMobray]

Originally posted by RevisionistHistoryChannel
Maybe you should ask yourself why people pick fights with you. Is it because you pick fights with other people? That's one way to "set the tone". Most people who don't pick fights don't get picked on, you know.

Anyone else thinking of Braveheart right now?

"Who is this person that speaks to me as though I needed his advice?"

:D I hope you're not standing by any open windows, my friend.

[Esprix]

See?

Esprix

[imthjckaz]

I think you enjoy the attention.

And the drama.


:p

[Salix]

I think this thread started it:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=94785

[leander]

I like to pick my nose, pick my ears, even pick my butt sometimes. But don't pick on Esprix!

If you have a problem, just tell him. But stop picking, ferChristsakes....

(except your nose, ears, butt, etc...)

Leander

[Stoid]

Did you link my wife? DID YOU LINK MY WIFE?

I'll make him a link he can't refuse...

Look what they did to my link....

You take the blue link, the story ends. You take the red link, you stay in wonderland. And, I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Roselink...

Fasten your seatbelts, it's gonna be a bumpy link...

Frankly my dear, I don't give a link

Mama always said life is like a box of links…. You never know what you’re gonna get.

I love the smell of links in the morning…

[Stoid]

I'm sorry, I lost my head, I don't know what came over me. I'll stop now.

Unless, of course, you wanna fight about it. :D

[Liberal]

Anybody wants a piece of Esprix goes through me. When I recently was having a very difficult time, struggling mightily with my emotions and sanity, I took leave of SDMB for a spell. One poster initiated contact with me to ask if I was all right, and to listen to me vent. One. And that one has my unswerving, uncompromising loyalty.

Thank you, Esprix.

[Freudian Slit]

Oh, am I the first? You'll all hate me, but...

You ARE the weakest link, g'bye!! <d and r>

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

what you're saying, in your whiny little voice is:

"BASTARDS! BASTARDS! LEMME ALOOOONE, BAAASTAAARRRRDSSS!"

Our answer--"No."

:D

[mouthbreather]

Esprix,

I like you just fine, but I have taken a liking to your new arch-enemy as well. I consider myself a middle-of-the-road spectator here, and as being such, it's my opinion that you have done your fair share of antagonizing in this situation as well. Which does not make the as-for-now anonymous poster competely at without fault either, but I don't think it has been entirely on one-sided thus far.

JMO, YMMV, and AC/DC rokks.

[mouthbreather]

Here I am wasting an "at" in that post when there are children in Greenland who have never had an "at", and may never.

I feel just awful.

[Stoid]

Geez, esprix, if I opened Pit threads against everyone who took potshots at me, I'd be opening 'em 24/7. I can't remember the last time I got through a whole thread without someone saying something amazingly nasty to me. And you're all het up over this? Blow it off, man, aint' worth your energy.

[elucidator]

"Link, come to the Dark Side, Link"

Takes a linkin' and keeps on thinkin'

You've made yourself something of a public figure, Esprix. I mean really, do you see me setting up a "Ask the Stunningly Handsome, Witty, and Erudite Guy" thread? No, because I am modest.

Now, in all honesty, I haven't read any of your "Gay Guy" stuff because I utterly lack any curiousity. But if you can't stand the heat, stay away from habanero peppers.

Perhaps as my love-monkey Stoid suggests, you should make some reference to these offensive posts, otherwise they will remain.......{drum roll}......

The Missing Link!

[Monster104]

Anyone ever play The Adventures of Link? :D

[Miller]

<shoves Esprix> Oh, yeah? Whaddaya gonna do about it, huh? <shoves him again>

[Esprix]

Originally posted by Stoid

And you're all het up over this?

I'm not all het up anything, my dear. ;)

But, seriously, it's not that one particular thing has set me off, it just seems like, of late, there have been quite a few whiny little brats who have decided, for various reasons (some unknown), to start sniping at me. I've been through this, and I don't care for it, and don't have the time right now to compose a whole new slew of scorchingly devastating flames (and since I some seem to think I have suddenly gained the ability to get someone banned, what with me being a Mean Cliqueish Old Regular PosterTM, I must use my power for good :rolleyes: ). Salix got one. mouthbreather got another one (and hardly my "new arch enemy," thank you very much). But there have been several others within the past few weeks. Links? No. I'm not of a mind to give them any more satisfaction or attention. Suffice it to say they know who they are and I'm asking them to just knock it the fuck off. Yes, elucidator, I know what I've gotten myself into, and, 99% of the time, it's a Good ThingTM, but that doesn't mean I can't be occassionally miffed at the annoying 1% (which now seems to include a new one right here in this very thread).

As one Mr. Banner was known to say, "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." So, in all politeness, I'm asking a few certain individuals to step off. Is that so much to ask?

Oh, and Lib? You rock.

Esprix

[Bossk]

Originally posted by Esprix


As one Mr. Banner was known to say, "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." So, in all politeness, I'm asking a few certain individuals to step off. Is that so much to ask?


Um, so would a gay Hulk be pink?

[Esprix]

And evidently some people need to be asked in several different languages and at several different decibel levels.

Esprix

[Liberal]

Um, so would a gay Hulk be pink?

Why? Looking for people to pin your pink triangles on? Wanna take me on, big boy?

[Yue Han]

Anyone ever play The Adventures of Link?

The suckiest of the entire Zelda franchise. (Actually, I haven't played the Mask one or any of the new Game Boy games. But AFAIK it is.)

--John

[erislover]

Originally posted by Esprix
And evidently some people need to be asked in several different languages and at several different decibel levels.
What a great quote in a thread asking people to lay off!

Man to psychiatrist: "Doc, I'm having trouble making friends you fucking prickfuck. Any idea what the problem is you stupid, ignorant, piece of shit?"

Stranger and stranger.

[Esprix]

eris, go read the link in Salix's post before you start in on me as well. There was a reason I posted that.

Esprix

[elucidator]

So I had this buddy, Dennis was his name, 7 foot tall and built to just under Greek god proportions. And queer as a blue horse. Nothing remotely effeminate, mind you, I guess what is sometimes known as a "bull fruit". (if any of this terminology is offensive, apologies and back to my story....) Oh, yeah, this is about 1969.

So we're hanging at this bar that has some biker and biker wannabe's, pounding some suds and talking about nothing in particular, when this biker-looking guy sort of pointedly bumps into Dennis and gives him a glare instead of an apolgy. Dennis ignored this, and returned to his beer. Anyways, the guy comes back a couple of times, same kind of crap,.....

Dennis sighs, buts down his beer, and swivels on his bar stool to face the guy and says:

"OK, I get the picture, you're trying to pick a fight. Don't much like fighting, but if you insist, we'll go outside and we'll fight. Just one thing I oughta tell you: I'm queer, and if I win, I'm gonna fuck you."

The biker guy went dead pale, I mean Casper, staggered back babbling something that might well have been an apology.

Dennis swivels back, like nothing has happened.

"Now, where were we....Oh, yes, the thing about the Steelers is...."

Secondly, I wish I lived in Mass. so I could vote for Barney Frank. The man's got stones, by God! If I believed for one minute that that was a direct result of being gay, I would check into having the surgery. Or whatever. I'm kinda uninformed about this stuff. So, Exprix, you're already in it, so what the hell! If you got it, flaunt it!

[Liberal]

What's the deal with all the Esprix bashing lately? Do you people seriously believe that something Esprix did or said got somebody banned? If so, that's one hell of an insult all around — to him, to TubaDiva, and to yourselves. Back off, dammit. Stop and think.

[erislover]

Well, Esprix, it isn't that I doubted there was a reason for you posting that, I just found it amusing. Old Andrew Dice Clay skit.

Now I am reminded of a conversation I had with an ex-girlfriend of mine. I once told her, "You know, you are so damn defensive." Her reply? (I will try to use formatting to get the mood across here) "So??!!?!"

Interestingly enough, I also hung out with her little sister. I once levelled the claim: "Sheesh, [so-and-so], you're pretty paranoid." Her reply? "Isn't everybody?" LOL Runs in the family, I guess.

Keeping those in mind...

I think that, often, you are more easily offended than others and, when you "vocalize" (respond in the thread) in that state of annoyance/defensiveness, you are—shall we say—somewhat sharp. This, of course, only serves to make other people, who are in themselves defensive, reply even more sharply, etc, and then we're in the Pit (either by your hand or theirs; I think, in the end, it is irrelevant of who brought it here)

I have no problem with you, your posting method, or the spirit of the OP. Just sayin', man! :)

[Esprix]

eris, dear, are you suggesting I should suffer fools gladly? Because it's not in my nature... (And please, someone point out to me where I've somehow warranted these pot-shots of late, because I seem to have missed any reasoning behind them.)

Esprix

[grirnpixie]

You don't want to suffer fools gladly, but we have to suffer you gladly? I don't think that's how it works, Sparky.

[Guinastasia]

You know, I never had a Pit thread directed at me...except that one, that Crafter_Man made asking why the hell I post so much, which turned into a "We Love Guin thread.

:(

It's not fair! Nobody hates me enough to start a Pit thread about me!


and seriously, people, don't start a We Hate Guin Parody thread-seriously. It's been overdone lately

[Esprix]

And I provoked that from you, how, exactly, grirnpixie?

Anybody got a lighter? I gotta prime up this flamethrower...

Esprix

[erislover]

Yes, basically, if you seek to avoid conflict directed at you then you must seek to avoid conflict. I think that is, shall we say, self-evident. It is even more evident that you feel the people you do engage are fools, in which case they surely will not kindly receive your corrections (in whatever form those take). No?

You do get a seemingly disproportionate amount of, er, abuse... but then, we don't often post in the same threads so I cannot say whether it is or is not warranted.

[erislover]

I should add that what pit therads I do read about you are indicative of irrationality, and hence, IMo, unwarranted. I simply get the feeling this isn't a rant related specifically to pit threads.

[Sylkyn]

Methinks somebody reeks of stinky feet....

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=95201

[Dr. Lao]

Re Salix's link: Don't worry about it too much Esprix, Bossk is a troll or a fool. He appears to get off on mocking what people look like.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=94544

[darkcool]

Mmmm....troll? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=95726)

[HairyPotter]

Esprix,
I'm sorry some brats are bothering you. I am selfish enough to hope that you don't change, however, because I find your posts very enjoyable.

[red_dragon60]

You calling me a linker, boy?
CD-relinker
To link or not to link?
Disable links in this post
link, link boom!
Dr. Strangelink, or how I learned to stop linking and love the ignorance
Run silent, run link.
In link we trust
Dial M for Link
Free ice with bait or linker
Take the blue link, and well see just how far the rabbit-link goes
Your link cannot be directed as linked



I still love ya Sprixy! But in that platonic straight guy way. Yeah.

[iampunha]

Link me tender, link me true?
Tell me I'll be linked by you . . .

[Green Bean]

Tonight at 8:00 on WBBQ--Trolls Say the Darndest Things, hosted by Art Linkletter.

[Gyrate]

Originally posted by Stoid
Did you link my wife? DID YOU LINK MY WIFE?
[Eddie Izzard]I AM your wife! Every day I come in here and there you are, moving links slightly to the left...[/Eddie Izzard]

[Gozu Tashoya]

<Britney Spears mini-medley>

Oops, I linked it again!

Link me baby, one more time!

<BSMM>

[Abe Babe]

"Liiiinks, links will keep us together"

"It's been a hard day's link"

Come see Illinois: The land of Linkin'

[Medea's Child]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Anybody wants a piece of Esprix goes through me.

Ohh! Two for one! when are you boys free?

(I'm sorry I know flirting with Esprix is so hopeless, but I can't stop myself...he's...just...so...cool.)

Sorry people are annoying in droves lately, Esprix. While its pissy, I'm also sure you can handle it with your usual composure and skill.

[vanilla]

Stoid: Link please?
Ah, you rock too St. Oid!

[mouthbreather]

heheheh.

St. OId -- the patron saint of punk rawk.

[dalovindj]

It is natural law that every action produces a certain effect. So if one performs wholesome actions such as donating money to charitable organizations, one will experience happiness. On the other hand, if one perform unwholesome actions, such as killing a living being, one will experience suffering. This is the law of cause and effect at work. In this way, the effect of one's past karma determine the nature of one's present situation in life.

[erislover]

dalovindj, that was a cool and hip post, I must say.

oh shit

[Esprix]

And dj makes three. :rolleyes:

Esprix

[Doug Bowe]

Hey, Esprix. Should you suffer fools, gladly?
Not really.
But don't mistake fools for dogs nipping at your heels. I bet they're just bored and want you to put on a show.
Resist it, man.
Water off a duck's back and all that.
------------------------------
You've mentioned that you cannot ban. As has been pointed out only Admins can do that.
But hang on...Go back to that thread where the banning took place.
Tuba made [B]one[/B} appearance...BOOM!
No need to reply or explain.
G'Day.
What if you gave that approach a whirl?

[CnoteChris]

I think your last post, and this thread no less, explains some of the jabs Esprix.

[Esprix]

Really, Cnote? Then please explain to me exactly why RevisionistHistoryChannel, Bossk and grirnpixie took the opportunity to take their unprovoked swipes at me (here and/or in other threads). I am asking a direct question, and they're offering me back-handed side-swipes (although kudos to anyone who has said supportive things so far).

And dalovindj has some kind of persecution complex and thinks I'm out to get him, when my last flame to him in the AM/PM thread was about all I had to say, yet he continues to dig at me in various threads. He is, indeed, one of the people I'm kindly asking to step off. (There are two others I'd ask as well, but they've already been banned.)

If I say something here and people want to respond in a negative way, fine, but a constant barrage of unprovoked snipes in various threads is working my last nerve. Eventually I'll get back to not caring, but at the moment, it's just kind of annoying.

Esprix

[Esprix]

Originally posted by Doug Bowe

Go back to that thread where the banning took place.
Tuba made one appearance...BOOM!
No need to reply or explain.
G'Day.
What if you gave that approach a whirl?

What, respond once and never again? Tried it - hasn't worked.

This is like being killed by a thousand paper cuts...

Esprix

[gobear]

Esprix, you know I dig ya, and I'm on your side. I offer some advice, that you ignore nasty comments. It's too easy to get involved in nasty, petty snipefests around here, and it does you no good to be drawn into them. Just walk away. You and DalovinDJ need to just ignore each other and stop getting into personal vendettas with one another. You are both cool, beautiful people who need some space and time to step back and chill. Who knows, maybe you both could be friends someday.

And starting threads like this does not help.

[Esprix]

Originally posted by gobear

It's too easy to get involved in nasty, petty snipefests around here, and it does you no good to be drawn into them.

I'm trying to avoid that by starting this thread. Hell, I started the warmgun thread 'cause of his sniping - rather than snipe back, I wanted to ask him directly to find out (and my general rule of thumb is "if it's posted in public it should be responded to in public," but, indeed, there are times when e-mail is a wonderful thing). So by this thread I'm trying to (a) not to snipe back, and (b) put an end to it. I should have known it wouldn't work.

You and DalovinDJ need to just ignore each other and stop getting into personal vendettas with one another.

I'm not. I said what I had to say, but he seems not to be finished.

Esprix

[jkusters]

So, people are picking on my good friend, Esprix, and he
does not know why. Well, based purely on observation both
on SDMD and IRL, I offer the following suggestions.

* Last Word Syndrom - Esprix has always preferred to have
the last word in an online argument/discussion/flame fest.
This, I believe, is due to his desire to always defend
himself. I have noticed there are any number of
times he has said his "final say" only to post something
else when someone responds to his "final say."

* Low Tolerance for "Fools" - Esprix said it himself best.
He does not suffer fools gladly. If someone is acting out
or making a poor fool of himself, Esprix is often quick to
point it out. Mind you, he often sprinkles a liberal dose
of clue in his rejoinders, but not everyone is
appreciative of being told they're wrong, not matter how
sweet you make the medicine.

* Easy Target - Many people know that Esprix will respond
defensively to any post that has something negative to say
about him. There are people who like causing trouble, and
look for people who respond easily to slight provocations.
The combination of these two factors means that there are
many people who enjoy taunting Esprix just to get a rise
out of him.
* High Visibility - Let's face it, Esprix likes to post.
He is witty, eloquent, and always has an opinion to share.
He's pervasive throughout the message board. He's also
quite popular with quite a few supporters. Being
a part of a minority that causes irrational negative
reactions from some members of our society does not help.
By being so visible and "out", he creates animosity in some
people simply by being who he is.
Now, I'm not saying the Esprix needs to change any of these
behaviors. None of them is necessarily "right" or "wrong."
However, I feel that each of them helps to explain what it
is about his behavior that attracks detractors
like the proverbial flame for the proverbial moths.

My advice to Esprix would be to develop the ability to say
"Whatever!" more easily and dismiss those not worthy to be
responded to; shrug and laugh at those who seek to get a
rise out of him; concentrate more on having fun and
less on what fools have to say about him. Esprix is a
terrific person, and there is no shortage of people around
here who feel the same way I do. Next time he should
simply say, "I don't care what that fool thinks; The people
who matter know better."

Don't let the turkeys get you down,
JOhn.

[Esprix]

Heh. I know there's at least one poster reading that post of yours, jkusters, who is either laughing maniacally or biting their tongue off, but we'll never hear from them about it...

Anywho, all points well taken (damn you for knowing me IRL!). Still, it's just fucking annoying sometimes.

Esprix

[CnoteChris]

Originally posted by Esprix
Really, Cnote? Then please explain to me exactly why RevisionistHistoryChannel, Bossk and grirnpixie took the opportunity to take their unprovoked swipes at me (here and/or in other threads).

I couldn't begin to explain their motivations, Esprix... at least right here and now. It's obviously something, or otherwise it wouldn't be going on.

The truth is, 'the what it is' I don't know enough about, or care about either way.

But if there's one thing I do know, or have at least seen around here before, is that threads like this aren't going to stop it... especially when you continue to egg them on.

I can't think of where we've corresponded much around here before, but I've seen enough of your posts to at least understand a point of view that believes you can be bull-headed in some of your posts.

That is, I've seen you make sweeping comments on things and then take offense when people call you to the mat on it (At least that's my very limited feeling and perception of the matter. Hell, I've done that around here too, but I've eventually gotten to a point where I decide to let it go, or at least decided that further arguing is fruitless).

But, if you're going to dish it out, then expect some of it to come back to get you. When it does, it doesn't help to start 'lay off of me' threads like this one- it's just fuel for the fire.

In an odd kind of way, it's like the taliban and some of their comments lately- 'Try to fuck with us you worthless bastards. I bet you don't have to courage to come after us. We laugh in your face, cowards!!'. Two minutes later 'Hey, you can't do this, get out of our land, this isn't fair!! Sure, you come in here with your technology and stomp us, but we're a caring and loving society. You guys are mean! Unfair! Unfair!'.

Now, obviously, I'm not comparing you to the Taliban, but it something so understood right now that it might make sense to you why people want to go after those kinds of comments.... especially if they have some risidual anger towards you right now, which, it seems even more obvious to me that they do right now (The posters that are snipping at you, that is).

You only need to be reminded of certain other poster around here who got him/herself into a load of nastiness by starting these threads. You were apart of those threads, and you had some good insight too-


Oh, dear...

Dear, go see someone - a professional. You sound at least depressive, if not borderline passive-aggressive. Therapy and/or happy drugs might do you a world of good if you're going through some stressful times.

And let's all take a deep breath and say together, "It's just a message board." Lord knows we all need a reminder of that from time to time, even me.

Esprix

Take this post for what it is- it isn't a jab, a bitch, or even a criticism really, it's simply saying that you might want to reconsider this counter-attack... it'll get ugly fast and I doubt it'll make you feel much better.

[jkusters]

Originally posted by Esprix
Still, it's just fucking annoying sometimes.

No doubt! But for every person who I know is not worth my
time, there are a dozen, like yourself, who most definately
is. I'm sure the same could be said by you.

JOhn.

[Esprix]

Originally posted by CnoteChris

But if there's one thing I do know, or have at least seen around here before, is that threads like this aren't going to stop it... especially when you continue to egg them on.

Frankly, I had hoped I could vent without getting into specifics, but everybody wants those links. I suppose one really can't vent about things that happen specifically on the SDMB and keep the participants anonymous.

I've seen enough of your posts to at least understand a point of view that believes you can be bull-headed in some of your posts.

No, ya think? ;)

That is, I've seen you make sweeping comments on things and then take offense when people call you to the mat on it... Hell, I've done that around here too...

I was gonna say... ;)

When it does, it doesn't help to start 'lay off of me' threads like this one- it's just fuel for the fire.

Sadly, you are correct, sir.

... especially if they have some risidual anger towards you right now, which, it seems even more obvious to me that they do right now (The posters that are snipping at you, that is).

That's the part I couldn't understand and was hoping for some kind of explanation for, but, yes, you're right - all it's done is served to invite others to do the same.

As to my quote, I'm not depressed nor in need of counseling - it's just annoying me. Again, I posited the OP as a general kind of vent/gripe, not an invitation to start a flame war. But as to this:

And let's all take a deep breath and say together, "It's just a message board." Lord knows we all need a reminder of that from time to time, even me.

Perhaps I need to be reminded of that, but two things come to mind when I read that quote - first, there are times, IMHO, when things posted on this board should be addressed, and that is specifically when your honor, name or reputation are being slighted. In this case (random sniping for spite's sake), yeah, that can and should be ignored (under normal circumstances, but as I said, I was trying to vent about the fact that it's been happening quite a bit over the past few weeks, and it's been annoying me), but if you're going to start spreading malicious lies about me or trying to drag my name through the dirt, I'm going to defend myself. Granted "those who know" will know better, but, just like we continue to argue with the moon hoaxers and the Radical Right to fight ignorance, I'm going to continue to fight against ignorance that besmirches me personally. Second, my thinking has changed a lot over the past few months in regard to this board, particularly after attending a few Dopefests, and I don't really see this place as "just a message board" anymore - but then, that's another debate entirely. :D

... you might want to reconsider this counter-attack... it'll get ugly fast and I doubt it'll make you feel much better.

Yup - hasn't so far. I will e-mail a mod to close it if they deem so fit.

Thanks for the input, all. I suppose I will have to console myself with the fact that, indeed, "those who know, know."

Esprix

[dalovindj]

dalovindj, that was a cool and hip post, I must say.Thank you erislover. Here is another quote I find appropriate for this thread. This one from the works of Carl Jung. The Shadow is the easiest of the archetypes for most persons to experience. We tend to see it in "others." That is to say, we project our dark side onto others and thus interpret them as "enemies" or as "exotic" presences that fascinate.
[snip]
The Shadow is the personification of that part of human, psychic possibility that we deny in ourselves and project onto others. DaLovin' Dj

[erislover]

... but I love Jung men!

(Houston, we have a pun...)