Long term effects of giving blood [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

manhattan

12-22-1999, 05:23 PM

What if the cheap bastards decide to save $$$ and recycle?
They don’t. Ever. Not once. To repeat, no one has ever contracted HIV or AIDS from giving blood.

If you’re stuck on the self-interest thing, consider this: The first time someone does get AIDS from donating, the whole train stops. No more blood. It is very much in the self interest of the blood collection agencies to ensure that that never occurs.

I swear to Ghod, sometimes I think it should be illegal to give blood to anyone who doesn’t have a donor card or a valid medical excuse not to carry one.

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Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

Lord Jim

12-22-1999, 05:32 PM

I totally agree with you, Manhattan, but the idea is definately out there that there is a risk.
I have no real idea why, but I suppose it amounts to: "if I don't let anyone stick a needle in me, then I don't have to worry about where it might have been."
Sounds like education is still the answer to fear.

Vestal Blue

12-22-1999, 05:45 PM

Lessee, I'm approaching 7 gallons now, and the only effect of giving blood long-term is more lives saved. Incidentally, I wear all my gallon pins on my motorcycle jacket, carry my donor card, and am a registered bone marrow & organ donor. With all that going for me, if I high side off my bike one day I figure I'm a shoo in for a transfusion! :)

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VB

When you are lost, or in doubt, run in circles! Scream & shout!

kylen

12-22-1999, 06:44 PM

The 7 gallons (well done, incidentally) obviously wasn't all from 1 sitting. When I give blood, or even have a couple of vials filled for sampling (I handle nasty stuff and have to be tested annually) I get light-headed. I am young, healthy and, despite being tall, have good circulation. But I'd be lying if I said that the pseudo-nausea wasn't somewhat of a deterent.

Since this is an excellenct time to donate again (a number of donor campaigns are running in my quaint little hamlet as we speak) I got to wondering about how much I could give in one sitting and and how long it took me to replenish my own supply. Since there are time limits between lettings I asssumed there may be risks to my health if I continually gave until it hurts. The typical AIDS/HIV/Cooties stigma aside and understanding that I wouldn't "run myself dry", what the heck happens when I need some blood down the road and my blood-production centers are overworked???

Zyada

12-22-1999, 09:34 PM

What if the cheap bastards decide to save $$$ and recycle?

Never given blood, have you?

The needle they use to draw blood comes in a sealed paper package. The needle they use to prick your finger to get a blood sample is in a sealed paper package. When they're finished, they deposit said needles in a bio-hazard waste container.

You can get other nasties from re-using needles that have been around a lot longer and are easier to detect, like hepatitis (sp?). And a dirty needle will infect the blood you're giving as well as yourself. Even from a purely economic point of view, a blood center wouldn't last long if it got a reputation for tainted blood.

**grumble, grumble** I don't mind if a person doesn't want to give blood, but stop making up silly paranoid urban legends to justify yourself ** grumble, grumble **

I got to wondering about how much I could give in one sitting and and how long it took me to replenish my own supply.

A lot less than you are allowed to give, and well before you are allowed to give again. I asked this once, and while I don't remember the exact answer, I do remember that these people err way on the side of caution.

12-22-1999, 10:51 PM

The standard amount of blood collected is about 500 ml, & is often referred to as a pint. This represents ~ 10% of the blood in circulation. The volume of fluid is usually restored within 6-12 hours. The proteins are replaced within 48 hours. Platelets & white blood cells are replaced within 3-7 days. Red blood cells are replaced within 3-10 weeks.

You can typically donate every 8 weeks. Before being accepted as a donor, you will be screened to make sure that you have enough red blood cells for yourself & to help the eventual recipient. If your red blood cell count is too low, you will not be allowed to donate then & will be advised to try again in 4 weeks. If you are still low, you should see you doctor.

Women often are unable to donate this often because of the combined effects of menstruation, pregnancies, and blood donation on iron stores. Taking iron pills can help with this.

Did you know:

That the unit of blood you give is processed & different components are separated to do more good to more people?

A single unit of blood can provide:

Packed red blood cells to restore oxygen-carrying capability.

Platelets to stop bleeding in cancer patients.

Clotting factors for hemophiliacs.

That demand increases, unfortunately at this time of year due to more auto crashes, while supply decreases, as even faithful regular donors get extra busy. Y2K has everyone trying to be prepared in case there is some awful terrorist incident(s).

Donors are desperately needed! Please consider donating.

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Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.

tomndebb

12-22-1999, 10:54 PM

Just to jump on the bandwagon:What if the cheap bastards decide to save $$$ and recycle?
Which is cheaper? Buying mass-produced, pre-sealed needles manufactured at pennies per Cwt or paying someone to dig all the needles out of the trash, rinsing them off (they don't have to be sterile but it would be bad form to [i]show[/b] blood in them), and then sticking each one into a plastic wrapper and sealing it by hand?

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Tom~

J. Alora

12-22-1999, 11:09 PM

I just gave blood this afternoon, and I'd encourage everyone to do so this month. Historically, more blood is needed in late December/early January than any other time of the year.

In February I'm going to be giving platelets for the first time, which takes about two hours. They hook you up with a hole in each arm connected by tubing that runs through a machine. The machine takes blood from one arm, filters out the platelets, and then pumps the plasma back into your other arm. This material is used for hemophiliacs whose blood has difficulty clotting.

What a world we live in. I love it!

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12-22-1999, 11:39 PM

A nitpick to J.Alora's post (with apologies to JA, who deserves kudos):

Actually, platelets are not used for hemophiliacs, who have clotting factor (protein) deficiencies. They have normal numbers of platelets in their blood.

Cancer patients, OTOH, cannot make platelets because of the effects of their chemotherapy, or sometimes because of the cancer itself. They desperately need platelet donations, and platelets pulled off from one donor by pheresis are better for several reasons than platelets pooled from several units of whole blood.
1 - They last longer & work better
2 - Less exposure to antigens, so less hard to match them to a donor the next time they need blood products.
3 - Reduced risk to the recipient of acquiring hepatitis, HIV, or other infection.

Please don't take this as criticism :) - you should feel terrific about donating, and especially about donating platelets. Because calcium is removed from the blood during pheresis to prevent the platelets from clotting before they get transfused, you may want to take some calcium containing TUMS to the donor center with you - if your calcium level drop, you might get some numbness, tingling, or muscle cramping for a few hours after donating. Many donor centers also serve Ca++ enriched OJ for donors.

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Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.

Sentinel

12-23-1999, 12:15 AM

Giving blood is good. It is as simple as that. If you wish to give blood, go to the blood bank and they'll test you, BUT inform them if you are on any medications because those medications will remain in the bloodstream and some they don't mind but some they do.

If you are squeamish about it, well that's OK. If you are squeamish about accepting someone else's blood when you have surgery scheduled, well you can donate for yourself. They'll keep your blood separate from the others and give it to you as needed during surgery -- check with your doctor as to the actual procedure.

The only problems which have cropped up with donated blood have been few and at the very beginning of the AIDS epidemic when blood banks, for financial reasons, WOULD NOT test their donated supplies for the disease nor the donors. They had to be forced into it by laws and lawsuits. Even then, the infection did not hit donors because they used clean needles. It is against the law for blood banks to reuse needles.

Currently, the problem which crops up now and then is Hepatitis B, usually because of people 'selling' their blood or lying on the donor forms who have been infected with this condition. I think the blood supplies are now tested for this also. Blood Banks can be sued if they give out infected blood.

BTW, reusing needles to 'save costs' is MUCH more costly than buying them in bulk. In the 'good old days' nurses used to have to chemically and heat sterilize the used needles, sometimes they had to run a fine wire down the bore to clean out any accretions of medication or tissue before doing so. Plus they had to use fine grain sharpening stones to sharpen the tips with. It was very labor intensive and used when the selection of needle sizes was limited -- for obvious reasons. (Fine needles could not have wire run through them or be sharpened without bending or being worn down to a nub.)

moriah

12-23-1999, 02:50 AM

Just as giving blood is somewhat difficult for women, whose regular bleeding causes low iron, giving blood for men is really good because they can sometimes have too high a level of iron (too much red meat).

So men, giving blood is healthy.

Ladies, take your iron supplements.

Peace.

Jophiel

12-23-1999, 03:10 AM

While I agree that giving blood is a good thing, let's be honest about it.

Repeatedly jabbing a needle into your arm has the potential for some long term problems. After the last time I gave blood, by inner arm hurt like a bitch for weeks. To this day, lifting something straightarmed with it (like a pail of water) can cause pain in that area. I'm completely certain that I have some form of nerve damage.

I'm not a doctor, I don't even play one on TV, but it seems to me that nerve damage, scarring, tearing or otherwise damaging the blood vessel, internal bleeding, infection and some other stuff are valid possibilities when giving blood. Perhaps they're not "long term effects" per se in that not everyone gets them, but each time you roll the dice, there's a chance.

However, as I said, I fully support giving blood. If not for the fact that I'd already given several gallons by the time I got hurt and that I now fear for my arm should I get jabbed again, I'd still be giving.

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"I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

corvidae

12-23-1999, 09:52 AM

It's too bad that they don't allow you to give half a bag. I was advised not to give for a while because I'd faint after it was over. I'm small, so I guess I didn't have that much blood to spare. I'd love to start giving again, though.

12-23-1999, 02:28 PM

I'd just like to say this sucks. I'd love to regularly donate blood, but I've been banned (and after my only experience, I can't say I'm eager to repeat). Am I sick? No. But my body is apparently very selfish about its blood.

The only time I donated was for my own father, who had 16+ hours of back surgery a couple of years ago. I was fine until about the last 5 minutes--everything went white, nurses were scrambling, and I remember getting very pissed off that they wouldn't let me sleep. "Open your eyes!" got very annoying. I threw up, twice I think, then had to be carried to the bathroom for the ensuing diarrhea. I recall the nurse saying strongly, "I don't recommend you donate blood again," about 3-4 times. Considering my level of consciousness, repetition was a good idea.

So I haven't, and I can't. I don't get it. I'm thin, but not waifish by any means. I'd eaten that morning, wasn't menstruating...just not something I'm meant to do, I guess. Dammit.

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I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better. Some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Laura's Stuff and Things (http://members.aol.com/lrconaway)

KeithM

12-23-1999, 11:37 PM

OK, I'm not going to shed much more light on this subject, but I just wanted to tell you all more than you ever needed or wanted to know about my weird relationship with blood.

I am positively phobic about it - not the sight of it, the IDEA of it. Living, liquid tissue. Ugh! Makes me oogy just thinking about it! Can't explain why. And although it supposedly isn't all that bad of a way to go, the idea of bleeding to death terrifies me.

All that said, I donate blood every chance I get, and have given well over a gallon.

Weird, eh?

Harmonious Discord

12-24-1999, 05:19 PM

I believe blood donation to be a very good thing to do. Were I not on a lot of medications I would do it.

Ursa Major

12-24-1999, 06:04 PM

I've given blood six times a year for the last 11 years. I'm CMV neg. (needed for newborns with few imunities), so the ARC calls me up to remind me every 60 days that if I don't get down there, some baby will die. I dread that call. I hate the emotional blackmail they use to get me into the center. I hate the 15 minute, highly personal interview I'm subjected to every time I go in. I hate the morgue gurney I have to lay on while they draw my blood. (The La-Z boys in the bloodmobiles are much more comfortable). I hate the fact that almost every time I go there's another donor who has passed out. I hate their crappy cookies and juice.

I think more people would give blood if the Red Cross made an effort to make it a more comfortable experience. There's no reason why I should have to verbally state to a complete stranger that I don't trade sex for drugs every time I give blood. There's no reason they couldn't make the blood drawing less clinical. These aren't the kind of things overpaid bureaucrats like Elizabeth Dole think about.

I hate the whole experience, but what choice do you have when they tell you you're saving lives?

coosa

12-25-1999, 09:02 AM

I actually enjoy giving blood! Although I'm female, I have a tendency to overproduce red blood cells (polycythemia?). I always feel terrific after donating - passing out? feeling weak? needing cookies and juice? Not me!! I go shopping!! I always feel frisky and energized afterwards. Too bad I'm not some rare blood type - I could probably donate more often than the average person.

And the personal questions? We always laugh through them. I know they have to ask and why they have to ask, so it doesn't bother me.

Plus there's the free health screening - the blood bank will definitely let you know if they find out you have AIDS or hepatitis or something, and the local organization also checks your cholesterol level and mails you a card with the results. (Although I think I preferred the free T-shirts they used to give out - my last one had a goofy looking chicken on the front, and said "Don't be chicken - give blood!")

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Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

Narile

12-25-1999, 11:01 AM

I hate to be the downer here, but wasn't there recently a case in San Francisco where a medical center had a technician who was taking blood samples and reusing the needles? I know there was a flap of said technician reusing needles, and I think it was blood smaples, but it might have been just injections.
It must be said that the lady in question was not properly trained obviously, and the medical center is currently being rather sued.
I also will say, that I think this is more the fluke/exception, and that I would give blood as often as I could, save the Hep incident from my childhood.

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>>Being Chaotic Evil means never having to say your sorry....unless the other guy is bigger than you.<<

---The dragon observes

JillGat

12-25-1999, 05:12 PM

[[Exactly zero. There has never been a recorded instance of receiving the HIV virus from giving blood. And logically, there shouldn't be. One gets HIV and AIDS from receiving tainted blood, most often from sex or from needle-sharing.]] Manhattan

In the U.S. maybe. But in Mexico, so many people have been infected by HIV from donating blood that there was an established risk category, "donadores de sangre." There they DID recycle needles.
Jill

JillGat

12-25-1999, 05:15 PM

p.s. -- I am ill for the rest of the day after donating whole blood, but found that I can donate plasma without a problem. It's probably because they put back fluids to replace what was taken out. Maybe because of my low blood pressure?
jill

manhattan

12-25-1999, 10:40 PM

Jill's right of course, and I thank her for correcting my Yankee Imperialism on behalf of foreign readers of this board. So check with your local authorities.

I haven't heard of the San Francisco case referred to by Narile, but I'll WAG that it was from injections. It is also worth pointing out that at least in most cases, both sample-taking and injections are different from donations in an important respect.. All the blood I've ever donated has been through the Red Cross, and IIRC they have a rig physically attached to each bag, making it more difficult to reuse a needle than not. I'm not familiar with the specifics of other programs, but I have to imagine that they work similarly.

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Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

mipsman

12-26-1999, 12:04 AM

I agree with Moriah that there is a definite health plus, at least for men, in donating blood. There is some disease, hemo- ferro- something or the other (I gave my book on it away) in which the iron content of the blood is too high and actually causes tissue damage especially to the heart. While blood is naturally recycled in the body, there is an imperfect mechanism for excreting iron, (Dr. Billy Rubin, hematologist (actually this is a joke name)). Women, for obvious reasons, don't have this problem as much as men with a more or less sealed circulatory system. As a pure speculation, this disease might be one of the reasons heart disease hits men more than women. Men, give blood and live as long as women!

12-26-1999, 12:19 AM

The condition you're thinking of, Mipsman, is hemachromotosis.

It is the most common genetic disorder in Caucasians, with a heterozygous carrier rate of ~ 10%; and a homozygous affected rate of about 1%.

As you alluded, women generally fare better with this condition than do men, because of losing iron regularly through mensruation & childbirth.

Treatment is to simply remove blood as often as needed to keep iron stores from being deposited in inappropriate places. Unfortunately, such blood is NOT being used for transfusion due to ethical concerns, but with the growing number of other exclusions, & the growing imbalance between demand & supply, this is eing reconsidered.

Other important things to do if you have this condition are to notify other family members, and to minimize your alcohol consumption, which greatly accelerates the damage done to your liver.

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Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.

Ursa Major

12-26-1999, 11:28 AM

It is the most common genetic disorder in Caucasians, with a heterozygous carrier rate of ~ 10%; and a homozygous affected rate of about 1%.

So what you're saying, Sue, is that the mideval barbers with their cups and leaches were right 1% of the time?

torq

12-27-1999, 02:22 PM

I gave blood for the first time last year. I had had good intentions before, but always seemed to be just getting or just recovering from being sick when the bloodmobile showed up (and I didn't even know where a blood center was, not that I would have motivated myself to go there if I did). So several things combined last year and it all worked out and I donated. No problems, except that I went a little pale and the nurses all started yelling at me to keep my eyes open.

I'm sure it was psychological rather than physical; I've known for some time that I can handle the sight of blood, whether mine or someone else's, as long as I'm DOING something about it, but once the crisis is past or someone else is taking care of it I get queasy. I was laying there wondering exactly what was going to happen when they pulled the needle out, and started feeling funny, and they take that kind of thing REALLY seriously when you're donating.

Anyhow, the most recent time I donated, they said my blood pressure was too high. They asked if I was nervous, which I was for the aforementioned reasons, and I said yes so they waited to give me time to calm down and took it again and it was within their allowed range.

I asked if there was something "wrong" with my blood because of the high pressure, and apparently it was concern for my health that would have stopped them from taking it; the blood itself was fine. So, why would giving blood if you've got high blood pressure be a bad thing?

Ike Witt

12-27-1999, 04:23 PM

Can anybody tell me if there is a limit on donating blood after taking Chloroquine (sp?) for Malaria? I had read that you can't donate for 3 years after the last dose.

12-27-1999, 06:06 PM

Adam, the prohibition against donating after taking Chloroquine has nothing to do with the Chloroquine itself, but of is for the same reason you took the chloroquine in the first place - that you were in an area that put you at risk for becoming infected with malaria. (As you probably knew)

People can have unrecognized malarial infections for years & the protozoan lives in red blood cells; hence the prohibition. I don't know the details of the duration of the prohibition, but off the top of my head 3 years would be about right, and would be dated from when you stopped taking the chloroquine, since the chloroquine could mask an infection (prevent you from showing any signs of infection, while not killing all of the protozoa.)

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Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.

Lord Jim

12-27-1999, 06:11 PM

torq,

So, why would giving blood if you've got high blood pressure be a bad thing?
I'll answer this from a layman's point of view. If it's wrong I'm sure it'll get more response correcting me than just asking.
High blood pressure is not typically an overactive heart pumping an excessive amount of blood through your system to the point it's ready to pop out of all your pours.

It's actually more likely a laboring heart trying to pump blood through a plaque lined (constricted)artery or an artery that has lost it's elastisity (hardened artery) and therefore it's ability to expand with the surge in pressure and contract to help the blood along.
The heart is already trading increased pressure for lack of volume to get the necessary quantity of blood to where it needs to go. To decrease it's available volume of blood seems counter productive.
If in fact your high blood pressure is due to nerves, then you should calm back down and all is well again, otherwise, I can' see them taking the chance.

12-27-1999, 06:12 PM

Torq asks:

I asked if there was something "wrong" with my blood because of the high pressure, and apparently it was concern for my health that would have stopped them from taking it; the blood itself was fine. So, why would giving blood if you've got high blood pressure be a bad thing?

The reason is that in some people with high blood pressure, the higher pressure is necessary to force sufficient quantities of blood through arteries narrowed by cholesterol plaques & atherosclerosis. The abnormalities that lead to the elevated BP & desired effects of meds taken to treat high BP also mean that normal mechanisms for maintaining a desireable BP are working suboptimally.

Fast forward to your incident after donating previously - a sudden drop in BP. People whose BP is not well regulated before donating are more likely to experience such a drop, and likely to tolerate it less well than people with good BP control.

Hope this answers your question!

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Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.