What's the deal with LSD?

[Shpaiers]

Hi guys,

I've been talking to my friend about LSD. Contrary to a the words of a health teacher from last year, my friend (we'll call him Tony) claims that LSD is not fat soluble and will not be released after usage, but rather is water soluble and will be metabolized within 24 hours. Which is true? I am not concerned mainly with the solubility, but what the long term effects of LSD are.

Tony claims that the hallucinations, paranoia, etc., that are frequently related to LSD are purely psychological, and I quote, "...can be controlled if I'm [Tony] is in a safe comfy environment." Tony bases most of his beliefs and opinions on articles on the internet, which cite books and research from 1960 and 1970, when LSD testing was legal. He claims that he has read a lot about the drug, and that it is quite safe compared to other drugs such as heroine, cocaine, etc. I don't know much about the drug, and didn't trust the articles, so now I have turned to you guys.

Please fill me in on the true effects of LSD ==>hallucinations: what cause them? can they be controlled? long term effects? Is there a "safer" age range to use LSD?

I am actually pretty young compared to all of you, and don't mean to offend anyone by this question. Thank you all!

Shapaiers

[Boris B]

Hey, how do you spell your UserName? It looks like I've got two choices.

A friend of mine claims that LSD does not make him hallucinate. He tried it a few times, liked it, but can't really describe its effects beyond, "Doesn't cause hallucinations."

I don't know about the solubility. One explanation I heard about flashbacks was that it has nothing to do with the drug directly; rather, it is simply post-traumatic stress disorder. The mind remembers the event vividly and replays it at odd times. That's just a theory though, I really have nothing to back it up.

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- Boris B, Hellacious Ornithologist

[Sofa King]

Um, I have a friend who used to take, like, a whole lot of it, dude. There's a real good reason why I-- ah, he quit. Oh, hell with it.

LSD ain't LSD any more, at least not where I come from.

According to reports from friends in LA, Orlando, and the Northeast, "fake" LSD is all over the place. Here's what I've heard happened. It ain't straight, but it's from personal experience.

Sometime around the early 90s, dealers discovered that a coctail of amphetamines and other junk can be combined and applied to a sheet of paper just as LSD often is, or was. The superelevation of the heartrate occasionally caused hallucinations in the people who took this stuff. Other side effects like teeth-grinding and muscle cramps were evident as well, which leads me to suspect that strychnine was still present. (Apparently, strychnine was a part of the manufacturing process of LSD, but I've never seen this in print.)

But the buzz, dude! The buzz was gone.

Many of the "hallucinations" of LSD were not as you might imagine them. Visually, objects might appear to be skewed in shape, move, or even melt. Colors and patterns would wash across the field of vision in random swathes. Sometimes, under high doses, auditory and visual signals would be confused so that one would experience the flash of a lighting bug as a pleasant popping noise, or music would literally hang in the air around you. Very occasionally, you might even see something that's not actually there. A good dose of acid used to be like an emotional rollercoaster ride that, while scary as hell, was also fun.

Most of the crap that's up for sale nowadays is stuff I wouldn't dare take. I can reliably report that the lack of effect is not a result of smaller dosages. If you do elect to try "acid," don't expect to experience anything remotely like what I described above. Now you get all of the side effects and none of the fun. It's probably bad for the heart, too, but folks who risk taking drugs generally aren't in it for the long haul, at least not at that moment.

As for flashbacks, well, I've had a couple. If they are purely mental in character then I've got to give my imagination a big pat on the back. I personally believe it was helped along by something chemical in nature.

[tenspeedjohn]

I took LSD about a dozen times in the early 70's. Besides the LSD, it usually contains other drugs like speed or strychnine. I tried orange sunshine, windowpane, and blotter. For several hours, at the peak of the high I was incompacitated. Fortunately, I was with friends and in a reletively safe environment. If you haven't tried it yet, why bother? You can get a safer experience with mushrooms or peyote. Whatever you decide be careful.

The hallucinations are very intense. I saw patterns everywhere, including my skin. My arm hairs became worms, diving in and out of my skin. Avoid mirrors!! Eating is very difficult, and possibly dangerous due to a choking hazard. Going to the bathroom is difficult and can be frightening if your urine changes to blood. I have to say that, without fail, I was too high for too long, and was always glad when I came down and vowed not to do it again. Alas, peer pressure got the better of me.

I guess I'll never know if there were any long term effects. I've never had a flashback, or met anybody else who seriously claimed to have had one.

Good luck,
John

Wanna make sure you have a nice comfy trip? I highly recommend "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"

[DrFidelius]

[dad mode]

What, are you STUPID? You don't need that crap. Look, back when I was your age I tried a number of things. The details are unimportant. Hallucinations are not fun; there are things in the dusty back corners of your minds that you shouldn't have to look at. The visual effects were interesting, though.
You cannot guarantee the quality of a substance you are ingesting. If the sample is adulterated with the wrong material, YOU COULD DIE. Think about that.
I know that you feel that it couldn't happen to you. I don't know why I am still alive and two of my friends are not. THINK!
[/dad mode]

[Jois]

One of my uncles (I have an abundance of them) liked to tell us about Berkeley CA in the late 60s or early 70s. He said it was the Jehovah Witnesses finest hour: the kids (music majors) from Berkeley used to blow their minds on LSD and end up in the streets with their instruments; JW would pick them up, put them into public services (social workers), apartments, and by the time they got cleaned up they would be JW and playing in JW quartets.

Had to be some lasting effect.

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Oh, I'm gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

[Suzeanne]

"Whaff dis?"
"What?"
"Dis stuff. Im my mouf. Deres fuff im my mouff."
"Whoa, cool."

A french fry. An insiduously evil french fry.

Newp. Don't recommend attempting to eat at all.

LSD, like a lot of other drugs, have gone from recreational pharmecuticals for the social moral impaired to a booming business that involves a whole lot of cutting corners, cheating, and dangerous mass production designed for one thing only: the almighty dollar. So a few hundred or thousand people die in the process of perfecting the latest short cut, big deal so long as the dealers get paid first.

Just doesn't seem to be either the time or place to experiment. It's not just a matter of losing brain cells anymore. So, um, like, don't do drugs, mkay?

[Shpaiers]

Mkay, Suzeanne :)

Tony my friend, does not seem to have any reason besides curiousity and idiocy to try LSD...I don't think it's a valid reason at all.

Thanks for all your responses so far!

Shpaiers

Okay, time to clear up a few misconceptions presented so far in this thread.

It surprises me how pervasive the strychnine myth is. According to revered psychedelic chemist Alexander Shulgin, " strychnine is neither used in the synthesis, produced by the synthesis, or a possible contaminant of the synthesis."

The simple fact of the matter is you couldn't even fit an active dose of strychnine on a piece of blotter paper. A piece of blotter can hold maybe 500ug, whereas an active dose of strychnine is in the 10-15mg range, with the LD50 being 25mg.

According to the LSD FAQ (http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Lysergic/FAQ_LSD_NEW1.htm) :

The "speedy" quality of unadulterated LSD is due to the pharmacological actions of LSD itself, and not necessarily due to decomposition or impurities. LSD typically causes early adrenergic effects such as sweating, nervousness, jaw grinding and insomnia which are easily confused with the side effects of amphetamine.
---

As for the "staying in your body for X amount of months" claim, let's look to a site operated by the purveyors of all evil (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/lsd/lsd-7.htm) themselves, the DEA, for the answer to that one :

"LSD is absorbed easily from the gastrointestinal tract, and rapidly reaches a high concentration in the blood. It is circulated throughout the body and, subsequently, to the brain. LSD is metabolized in the liver and is excreted in the urine in about 24 hours."

Actually the DEA got most of their facts straight about LSD. I'm surprised.

LSD is not without danger, though. If you do a lot of it, it can kinda scramble your brain. In moderation, though, you should be fine.

LSD is not addictive, and is the cause of very few emergency room visits compared to other drugs. No death has ever been attributed to the direct effects of LSD. All this from the DEA site, by the way.

Hallucinations? You won't get many because the average hit of LSD today contains just 40-100ug. In the sixties it was more on the order of 150-250ug.

The biggest concern, already mentioned in this thread, is adulterants. There are a few chemicals active in the microgram range that could replace LSD, including scopolamine and atropine. But most chemists aren't out to kill their customers. That's just bad business sense, ya know? If you're going to get ripped off buying LSD, more often than not, you're just gonna get plain paper that hasn't been soaked in ANYTHING! I once paid $25 for a once-inch square piece of green paper. I was not a happy camper.

The thing that really sucks about LSD is that we just don't know for sure, how it works, why it works, and all that other good stuff. Research on it is illegal. Theories abound, but solid facts are hard to come by.

In my experience, the normal cycle of LSD use is that you take it a few times, maybe even a few dozen times, over the course of anywhere from 1 to 5 years and eventually you just get bored by its effects. It doesn't really offer anything new. I haven't done LSD in 18 months. Haven't really feel the desire to.
It was fun while it lasted, though.

I don't know why I am still alive and two of my friends are not.

Two of your friends died from adulterated LSD? Or were they messing around with those nasty hard drugs?

[DrFidelius]

puffington:

Car crashes while under the influence of sundry substances. Not acid for either, but 'shrooms for one.

Palliatives for boredom need not have fatal side effects.

[Eve]

OK, I can kinda understand why people take alcohol, downers or heroin (to relax and unwind); or uppers or cocaine (for high energy).

But who the hell would want to hallucinate or "alter their mind?" My mind is so delicately balanced as it is that I have no intention of playing Ducks & Drakes with it.

[Ukulele Ike]

People of every culture and every civilization throughout history have attempted to reach "higher states of consciousness." Some achieved it through mortification of the flesh, some through starvation, some through lengthy bouts of meditation.

But it often seemed that the easiest way to throw the mental gearshift was to eat some of that bush over there. No, not that one, THAT one.

To roughly quote that font of wisdom, George Carlin: "Primitive Man looked about him, and said, 'This can't be it.'"

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Uke

[egkelly]

What is MMAD (ecstasy) all about? I understand it's effects are similar to LSD. Is the street version of this drug dangerous?

[OpalCat]

Thank you puffington... I am also sick of the myths about LSD that are so omnipresent (speed, strychnine, etc).

And Eve? If you don't want to do it, don't.

For me, I've taken LSD probably over 100 times actually I really miss it. I have learned a lot about myself while on it, and it's a lot of fun. I would definitely say that no one should take it unless they are old enough that their brain isn't developing anymore and are in a safe environment.

LSD gives you a new perspective on just about everything, and it can be very spiritually eye-opening, and psychologically healthy.

Ok, flame away.

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--
Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
"Meat flaps, yellow!" - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com (http://www.opalcat.com)

[Ukulele Ike]

OpalCat,

Flame? Whatever for? You've captured it in a nutshell.

[jerks thumb up one thread] What she says.

[Athena]

Hmmm... LSD used to be my drug of choice, back when I did "hard" drugs. Probably haven't done it in 10 years, but I'd probably do it again if someone offered.

In my opinion, the worst effects of LSD is that you can easily trip for 12 hours and you tend to forget to do things like eat, drink water, etc. Seeing as I was usually quite active during the trip, I'd end up tired, hungry, and dehydrated. Not fun. As I clued into this I used to stock up on stuff to eat, and write myself notes to remind myself to drink water and eat the food. No more bad hangover when I came down.

I agree with the above posts on hallucinations. I never saw people who weren't there, and I never decided that I could fly or any such thing like that. I *did* get the funky texture stuff - walls start to breath, anything with a texture starts crawling around. That's pretty cool.

I guess the biggest memory I have is just that everything was so damn FUN when I was tripping. Moving from the kitchen to the living room, for instance, was sure to bring a lot of laughs. Different textured food was great. Hell, all my friends became more fun! It's a fun drug, and like most of the others on this thread, I've never heard first hand accounts of people getting hurt on LSD. Coke, Heroin, sure - I have a cousin who is lying in the hospital as I type this, heart attack provoked by a cocaine overdose. He'll probably die. But I tend to group LSD in the same group as alcohol and pot. Yeah, you can do too much of it and screw your life up, but you can drink too much, too. All is fine, in moderation.

[Eve]

OK, what do you "learn" about yourself on drugs that you couldn't come to by plain old thinking and reasoning?

Reminds me of people who think they're terribly clever or witty when they're high or drunk, when actually their thinking processes are just so slowed down that they SEEM witty to themselves . . .

[DrFidelius]

Okay, go ahead, do whatever you want.

But, don't come running to me if you fall down a flight of stairs and break your neck.

[UncleBeer]

Way back in my high schol and early college days I did quite a bit of LSD. 50 times is probably a conservative estimate. The visual and emotional effects were quite stunning, and enjoyable. Like some others have stated, the hallucinations were enhancements, if that is the correct word, to existing objects; I don't believe I ever saw things which weren't physically there.

Am I glad I tried it? Obviously, or I wouldn't have repeated it many times. Would I do it again. Definitely not, I think I'm glad I grew out of it. As I have grown out of using all other drugs, except alcohol.

As a side note, I recall being able to drink an incredible number of beers while using LSD. Additionally, I remember the mushroom buzz being a bit more mellow than acid.

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"A zebra does not change its spots."
~Al Gore, 1992~

[Sake Samurai]

As someone who still trips ritually, I must reinforce the notion that the effects of hallucinagins depend upon the personality and mood of the user. Dosage and purity have something to do with it for sure, but not much compared to the person taking the drug.

A couple of tips:
1. Never take *candy* from strangers. Only friends.
2. Don't compound drugs. If you decide to drop acid, stay away from cocaine, meth, alcohol, heroin, hash, etc.
3. Stay in a controlled, friendly environment. If you go outside (a necessity) ensure that your location is secluded and peaceful. You'll probably end up in a hospital or cell before long, otherwise (trust me).
4. Be at peace with yourself - sounds kind of hippy, but I just mean you should stay away from LCD if you have big issues in your life (recent death of family member/friend, traumatic separation, recent surgery, suicidal thoughts, etc.).

If you've never taken mind-altering drugs before, start with psilocybin mushrooms (they grow wild out here by the coast - just grab a basket and pick!). Nice earthy spiritual awareness. Everything connected. Lights and images are not restrained by reality/actuality but are rather pure manifestations of the optic nerve. Enjoy your personal reality and the opening of your body to the planet. The trees are as hands to you and the rocks are your feet.

LCD is not to be triffled with. It is perhaps the most mind-blowing drug in existence. Take a large, pure dose and it will overpower you and create lasting impressions on you mind. I have seen friends reduced to gelatenous mounds of weeping flesh and others jump in front of moving vehicles (no deaths). The warnings of many are to be heeded. No matter how strong you are - it is stronger!

My last trip was magnificent. Six hits of rainbow acid (double strength, set in aurally after 10 min, visually after only 15!). I saw myself as the alpha, the first man on earth, millions of years ago - just landed from a distant star, alien to the earth. I wandered the planet (heavily wooded area with river and streams) discovering the lush wonder everywhere around me. Every single thing surprised me and made me gasp with total pleasure. The discovery of liquid water was the climax of the journey. What a fabulous substance you have here on your planet! I sat on a riverbank for ages, letting the water run over my hands and feet. I finally climbed a volcanic boulder and jumped in. There was orgasmic delight the very moment I hit the supple water. I swam and swam and discussed metaphysical uncertainty with indifferent salmon, lazy frogs and one very sagacious, gregarious beaver. They taught me much.

Perhaps you can tell my fondness for lysergic acid - it's my drug of choice, but I have yet to try heroin (surprising given my current residence in Portland - the heroin mecca) due to the overdoses of two acquaintences not so long ago. Heroin fucks both your mind & body up, LSD just goes after mind like a hypnotized bitbull on crack!

To Shpaiers in the OP:

Causation? Dramatic alteration of the delicate balance of brain chemistry needed to rationally function. We don't know much more than that - it would be wise to continue our research.

Controlled? No.

Long term effects? The drug does imprint your mind somehow. The closest similarity I can think of is the way you might suddenly experience a past lover when your current girlfriend replicates her behavior somehow - sort of a triggered memory. It's always a pleasant, rare experience for me.

Age? Any if you follow my above advice. Teenagers are prone to more feelings of insecurity and depression, so I might well refrain from drug experimentation until your mind is more stable and growth has slowed.

All that being said, have self-control and don't abuse the wonders of any drug.

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Hell is Other People.

Thank you, puffington, OpalCat, Athena for presenting the accurate facts along with personal anecdotes. I have taken LSD probably 300 times(70's, 80's, and 90's) and only had one "bad trip" which occurred because I was being chased by both cops and hoodlums at the same time (for something I didn't do)...I really can't blame the unpleasant experience on the drug itself.

I think that to some degree one will get whatever one expects from the drug. Yes, I've had some "mind-expanding" trips with incredible insights into my psyche. Also had some very serious and uplifting spiritual experiences. Also had some plain ol' silly good times. Its reliability and purity were at least as good or better than that of other illicit drugs. Haven't done it in years, but I'd certainly do it again if the timing was right.

I neither advocate nor discourage the use of LSD or any other drug, but get the facts straight before you take it or talk to others about taking it.

P.S. Well put, Sake Samurai. Sounds like you trip the way I used to. I envy the ready availability of shrooms. Kinda rare here in TN, but I hear they grow wild down in AL and MS... maybe a "road trip" is in order come spring. :)

[Sofa King]

Well said, Sake. I particularly agree that LSD is not the sort of thing you want to be playing with if you are in a sorry mental state.

I also have to agree that I have had my instructive moments with LSD. Those who have not done it will probably find this laughable, but dosing is all about discipline and self-control.

As far as the similarities between psilocybin mushrooms and LSD, Dennis Hopper once said, "I tried mushrooms for the first time and it was like eating a flower. Then I took LSD and that was like eating an IBM machine."

[Shpaiers]

Thanks for all your responses.

So the main gist of it is that LSD is not as bodily and mentally harmful of a drug as heroin, cocaine, etc., if consumed in moderation. And that the best thing that one can do to prevent physical and mental harm is to take it in a peaceful serene environment when the brain is not developing any longer. Oh yeah, and making sure to eat and drink. Right?

This is all really interesting...this message board is more educational than a day at school sometimes.

By the way, Sake Samurai, it's nice to see someone so close..."Tony" and I live in Portland too.

Shpaiers

[Sake Samurai]

Tenn, great things grow out here - it's a rainforest, after all. Fortunately, it's perfectly legal to take a shroomin' stroll with a basket under your arm. It's only illegal if you place them in a sealed container or bag (intent to sell).

I'm currently planning a trip out to crater lake in southern Oregon. I was there last year and without the enhancement of any drugs was struck so hard by the raw spirituality of the lake that (without actually crying) tears poured down my face. I plan to bring a conservative amount of acid and reserve a room for the weekend in the beautiful lodge and spend my days wandering around the lake and working on my poetry. It's up at 10,000 feet so it's snowed in right now, but come spring. . .

Sofa: It shouldn't be laughable to anyone. Speaking of Hopper, if anyone wants an example of a bad trip, go rent hopper's Easy Rider. It's a classic and the scene in the New Orleans cemetary is powerfully chaotic.

Shpaiers, glad to meet you here - we Portlanders are a rare bunch on this board. Out of 3,600+ members there are only about 5 of us. Did you see the moon last night? It was finally a crystal clear night on the solstace with the most full moon I've ever seen. Sunrise & sunset were pink and orange and when I finally saw the moon, my chin dropped to the grass. It you missed it, check it out again tonight.

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Hell is Other People.

[pldennison]

Let's say for the sake of argument one wanted to try one of these mind-altering drugs: How would one go about procuring same?

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"It's my considered opinion you're all a bunch of sissies!"--Paul's Grandfather

[Ukulele Ike]

[shaking head sadly]

Never thought I'd see the day where an electric guitarist has to ask THAT question.

Times sure have changed, by cracky.

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Uke

[Dirty Devil]

I've tripped well over a hundred times, about half at Grateful Dead shows. I've never had a bad experience (knock, knock, knock), but that has a lot to do with where I was and my mind-set at the time. I have had deep insights into basic existance that I've never had on my own. Deep, deep insights. For me, at least, it pushes reality to the very edge, breaking down thought itself. It makes me extremely aware of what I'm thinking and why. It allows me to spiritually look down on myself and merge the mental world inside my head with the physical world around me. I've experienced pure, basic existance on LSD. I think it has a very profound and positive impact on who I am and what I believe, and I think I'm a better person because of it.

But I very well may be one of the exceptions. I've known lots of people who've had very bad trips, and I know many more people who I would go to the ends of the Earth to discourge their using it. It's a big gamble. I gambled and it payed off very well for me, many times.

I haven't done it in a couple of years. I prefer to take mushrooms if I want to trip, simply because they don't last so long and are usually more reliable than a little piece of paper purchased from a stranger (although there are certainly dangers with 'shrooms, too). 12 hours of intense self-analysis on LSD is a little more than I'm willing to do these days.

Basically, it's a personal choice. I wouldn't tell you to do it, and I wouldn't tell you not to do it. You are taking a risk, no doubt about it. Proceed with caution and use your best judgement. If you do decide to try it, have fun. Just be careful.

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"Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope."

I took lsd twice,because my husband told me to.The first time,I felt totally peaceful,no bitchiness at all. The second time,I was preganant(a few weeks.I did Not know I was pregnant)It wasn't so peaceful,but I saw the walls breath! I'd read about it,so i knew that was a common thing,and it didn't freak me out. Lsd does not harm fetuses by the way.

<font size=5>What the Hell do you people need drugs for anyway?!?

If you want to see something that is bizzare & looks like a bad dream; turn on the evening news on your TV.</font>

<BLINK>The above type is normal size. If it does not appear to be normal size, or begins blinking, you are having a flashback</BLINK>


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Save The Endangered Jackalope! Send Cash Now! If You Do This, I Will Use The Cash To Save Any Jackalope That I Happen To Find! Send Cash Now! Before It's Too Late! My Bills, I Mean The Jackalope's Bills Are Due The 15th Of The Month!
This has been a message from the Illuminated Committee To Save The Jackalope. Fnord.

[OpalCat]

OK, what do you "learn" about yourself on drugs that you couldn't come to by plain old thinking and reasoning?

One thing that comes to mind is that I discovered that I loved my mother. After all the pain she had caused me, I thought I hated her. Then I was looking through an old photo album of her and my dad in high school, and I saw her, for the first time, as a person. And I forgave her for the mistakes she made. And I realized that I loved her.

You can fight it all you want but I still say, if it isn't your thing, don't do it. But don't judge me if I do it, ok? And don't try to get all holier-than-thou when I say I've learned things from it. I never said it was the only way to learn things, I simply said that I DID learn things. Mostly I did LSD because it was fun, but in addition to that I've learned things. Don't like it? Don't do it. But leave your preachiness at the door, I don't need it.

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--
Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
"Meat flaps, yellow!" - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com (http://www.opalcat.com)

[jane_says]

Hubbo and I used to trip quite frequently until the rugrats came along. I liked it. I would definitely do it again if I had unlimited time, no kids, and zero responsibilities.

I only hallucinated once (or actually, on one trip). Many times I saw inanimate things breathe, move, melt, etc., but only once did I imagine things that clearly did not exist. Incredible, IF one is comfortable in his/her surroundings. I always insisted on doing it at home and only with people I felt completely at ease with.

I have seen people having so-called "bad trips" and it is not pleasant.

I would not recommend that anyone start taking acid (mostly because of the stiff legal penalties) but memories of tripping in my youth are some of the most cherished ones that I have. Maybe I should have joined the Glee Club or something instead, but man, was it intense. Emotions, sights, sounds, sex, everything magnified so much that they are almost too much.

[N oR jVIaL]

Some interesting psychedelic references from the Anarchist's Cookbook:

Relating to the effects of Peyote
"The white man goes into his church house and talks about Jesus; the indian goes into his teepee and talks to Jesus."
~ J.S. Syotkin, 1956~

Antonin Artaud (The Artaud Anthology) was able to see and understand ideas and concepts on a different level. He was able to tear apart rationalizations, without regard for contemporary methods of organization, or even contemporary versions of truth. Artaud found, in his own way, his own truth and his own structure of values .......they locked him up.

"I died at Rodez under electroshock"


U.S. patent application for:
"The Preparation of Lysergic Acid Amides"
#2,736,728 patented February 28, 1956


... as well as, do-it-your-self methods for extracting natural LSD from wild Morning Glory seeds and Hawaiian Wood Rose seeds.
---------------------------------------------

<font color="#8b008b">"....but the downside is, if you open those doors and don't like what you find there ..... you're just fucked"

~Guthrie~</font>

[Alphagene]

Lsd does not harm fetuses by the way.

According to this site (http://parentsplace.com/pregnancy/exposure/qa/0%2C3105%2C390%2C00.html) pure LSD is probably not teratogenic (i.e. causing birth defects) but with street LSD, being mixed with gawd knows what, all bets are off.

Granted, more research needs to be done on the effects of LSD and I'm certainly not casting aspersions on the medical condition of your child, but stating that LSD is harmless to fetuses is an inaccurate and potentially dangerous thing to say.

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If I wanted smoke blown up my ass, I'd be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose.

Let's say for the sake of argument one wanted to try one of these mind-altering drugs: How would one go about procuring same?

Wait 'till Phish comes to town, then show up at their concert bleary-eyed with a fat spliff in one hand and a balloon full of nitrous oxide in the other. Walk around aimlessly until approached and asked if you wanna buy some acid.

If you live in a humid location, you can pick (http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Psilocybian/picking.guide) 'shrooms. You can also grow (http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Psilocybian/gg32/mmgg.htm) psilocybes, bearing in mind that this is highly illegal and I am not endorsing this practice, even though I did do it once several years ago and it was fairly easy.

You could also grow peyote ... but it would take about 10 years for it to grow big enough to use.

Oh yeah, and making sure to eat and
drink. Right?

You won't want to eat anything while on acid, possibly some hard candy or pop rocks or something like that, but nothing heavy. Water was always my drink of choice when tripping. If you smoke cigarettes, be sure to have a lot of them on hand - or none of them ... just kinda depends on the intensity of the trip, I guess.

You shouldn't be mixing your drugs, but it'll be okay if you smoke some weed or hash with it, especially while coming down. A valium or Xanax is nice when you're coming down and just wanna go to sleep but can't.

OK, what do you "learn" about yourself on drugs that you couldn't come to by plain old thinking and reasoning?

This is one of those things you just can't explain unless you've experienced it. The way psychedelics tickle your mind is unlike any other sensation you will ever feel in your life. Your brain is working in fast forward, processing a billion operations per second. Thoughts flow like poetry.

Haven't you ever wanted to peer inside the mind of a madman for oh, 8 to 12 hours (3-6 for shrooms)? It's really pretty amazing. It can be euphoric and it can be the most hellish emotional anguish you've ever felt. If you're feeling at ALL depressed, don't take psychedelics!

One more important note : A high dose is more likely to give you a bad trip, especially if you're not an experienced user. I've never had a bad trip on LSD, probably because the dosages are so small these days. I have had a couple of bad trips on high doses of 'shrooms, though. A good dose of p.cubensis for a first-timer is 1.5g (about 1 1/2 teaspoons dried, powdered).

[OpalCat]

I dunno, I've craved various foods on acid. Usually salty things like potato chips. Mmmm.

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Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
"Meat flaps, yellow!" - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com (http://www.opalcat.com)

I ate salami,and it did help.Tho dont ever try to play with dice!

[Athena]

I found that eating was essential to the trip. I tended to be quite active while doing LSD - running around outside, looking at things, etc. 10 hours of this tends to make you hungry. When you're on acid, you won't notice that you're hungry, but if you do eat & drink you can just about cancel out that icky hangover the next day. I used to plan ahead, and have some real food in the house (ie, a sandwich ( a SIMPLE one, I can't imagine eating a sub or something while tripping ) and some fruit.)

The other advantage to this is that it seemed to extend the trip somewhat. Or at least, we had more energy for a longer time.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

YoU DrUgGgIes All SUCK DuDE!

[jane_says]

Opal, I too have heard that it is harmless to the fetus, but I would never knowingly ingest it while pregnant, just as you wouldn't, I'm sure.

I loved to drink beer while on acid - large, vast, big old quantities of beer. I mean, about twice my weight in beer. I couldn't even dose up without two cases in the fridge.

I don't recall ever recall getting hungry on acid, but we did eat because it was so different from eating any other time. My SO (now husband) always wanted to eat fruit, especially oranges. I mostly rolled those around on the floor. My friend April always wanted those viscious little Hot & Spicy Cheez-Its. Gag. Terrible with beer.

One night April and our friend Chris decided to make us all dinner while we were tripping and made us stay out of the kitchen. For hours it seemed they beat and banged around the kitchen, dirtying up pots and pans. We imagined the delicious feast they were preparing. Around daybreak came carrying it in. Nine soggy, half-frozen crinkle-cut French fries, no condiments. Boy, were they proud. We ate it anyway.

Tip: For hallucinations, try sensory deprivation while tripping. One of my best trips (visually and spiritually) was on 'shrooms in a windowless basement bedroom. No light, no sound, 72 degrees. Laid on the bed naked for 4 or 5 hours (who's counting?)...traveled through galaxies, experienced being lightning, talked to different faces of God, time-traveled, etc...also saw, heard, and felt random kaleidoscopic designs. Wow.

By the way, before we get sucked into the myths again...someone made a reference to "the stuff on the street" being "cut with gawd knows what"...For LSD, stick with blotter. It should taste like nothing but paper. Good acid is both clean and powerful. Even "bad" acid is nothing to panic about: it may taste bitter, give a speedy high with teeth-grinding and visual tracers and not much else. No good for enlightenment, but it won't hurt you. So-called "bad" acid is usually just old or poorly made, not some scary substance that evil mad scientists are gleefully poisoning innocent children with.

[Kaje]

with regards to egkelly...it's actually MDMA (methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine). Its effects are nothing like LSD. The only hallucinations I've heard about with MDMA were people who saw funny colors, but they had also smoked enough pot to give them these affects on it's own.

Physiologically, mdma tells your brain to release its store of seratonin (not sure about the spelling, it's basically what makes you happy). Negative affects can result from oxidation that can occur but this can be counteracted by taking vitamin e before the roll. Also, since it releases your seratonin, your moods can be unbalanced afterwards, small bouts of depression can arise. This can be helped if you take 5-HTP pills the next day to hepl balance moods and rebuild seratonin. If you try to roll before your seratonin has regenerated (2 weeks is the recommended safe break), you can really throw things off as well.

An ecstasy "roll" consists of a few parts. During the first part it's an intoxication feeling. You're kinda tipsy and things feel neat (This is the part most people hear about). After that for the remainder of the roll you're just very open and happy.

As you can see these are hardly the affects of LSD. The "street version" of this drug isn't dangerous assuming the contents are what they are said to be (MDMA and HCL as a binder). Some people say there is heroin in some pills but the heroin needed to have an effect on the user would cost more than the $20 or so that ecstasy costs.

There was a case where some guy made a batch of pills consisting of DXM (dextromethorphan or something like that...a hallucinogen found in many cough syrups). These particular pills contained a high enough dose to be dangerous, and from what I remember one person died from it. However, this isn't a common occurence and for the most part you can trust ecstasy. Different batches (each batch has a unique color, shape, or picture on it...pretty cool actually) have somewhat different components and result in better or worse rolls than others, but it'll still be safe, maybe just not as much fun.

obviously this entire post is way off from the original, but I just thought I would give eg (and whoever else may be interested) the facts.

whew...long digressive post that is

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The only thing a nonconformist hates more than a conformist is another nonconformist who does not conform to the prevailing standards of nonconformity.

[voltaire]

Wait 'till Phish comes to town, then show up at their concert bleary-eyed with a fat spliff in one hand and a balloon full of nitrous oxide in the other. Walk around aimlessly until approached and asked if you wanna buy some acid.

If you live in a humid location, you can pick 'shrooms.


Ouch. That hurts man. Phish is going to be in my area for New Years, and I can't go. :( They're playing a five day festival on an Indian reservation in the Everglades, and they will play ALL day and ALL night into the New Years morning. Not only am I sure there will be plenty of hallucinogens for sale there, but I know that Mother Nature is giving away plenty of shrooms for free in that particular area!

And I can't go, being on call for Y2k and all. Not to mention that one-day tickets are not available, you can only buy the five-day ticket for somewhere between $150-$175 :(

It would've been great if I could have gone, I haven't done hallucinogens in years. What better way to bring in the New Year? In fact, one of my best experiences ever was out in the Everglades on 'shrooms, reading Huxley's 'Heaven and Hell' and 'Doors of Perception'. I was out there all day, when I started reading it was a beautiful day out with not a cloud in the sky, as the book progressed so did the weather, and a HUGE storm rolled in. I sought cover under a little pavillion and continued my reading without getting my book wet. It was great, almost everything I read in the book was materializing before my eyes. And soon I had to put the book away because it was raining so hard that the wind was blowing the rain in sideways and soaking me and my book. THEN the thunder and lightning began to rumble and flash and my trip was kicked into high gear! I had to stand up on a bench in order to keep from getting soaked by the sideways rain and it was then that a bolt of lightning actually hit the shelter I was under and I saw an amazing arc of electricity go down the ground wire. It was the first time I ever got to witness first hand the awesome power of nature and actually feel that power harnessed inside of me. I swear, for at least a month after that I was energized. No, not from the lightning, just from the experience. I felt more alive then ever that day, and the energy sort of carried over into everything I did for quite a while.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that every trip you take changes you in some way. And usually there's one thought or one related group of thoughts that serve as the theme to any trip that you take. Any memories I have of past trips ALL bring to mind a predominant thought or feeling that was the focus of that trip, and I feel that I learned a lot and realized a lot of things I had never even thought of before. YMMV

Have any of you tried the more serious of the mexican hallucinegenic plants?

What plants are you referring to? Ayahuasca? Salvia Divinorum? Psychedelic cacti?

Peyote doesn't interest me. Why eat something that is guaranteed to make you vomit first, trip later?
I'll skip the first part, thank you very much, and stick with 'shrooms or 'cid.

[Sake Samurai]

I am referring to the mescaline cactus peyote, Ololiuhqui and the various Salvia plants.

TennHippie - that's one of the reasons I've avoided H. I think it's an unfounded objection though, because the smackheads I've seen shoot up always vomit, but they usually seem to be really enjoying it - kind of a *good* vomit.

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Hell is Other People.

[capybara]

About acid and beer: I once dosed up and went to a party with a mixed group, so I wasn't keen on having a random group know I was tripping, so I began drinking beer to fit in with the crowd. After a few hours a guy I had been talking to on and off finally pulled me aside, "Did you dose or something? You're on your 17th beer or something and you're not drunk." "D'oh!," I said. Moral: Watch out when you drink beer on acid because although you don't feel drunk, you are probably drinking far more than you can really metabolize (I start feeling sick long before 17) and you could poison yourself.

[Sake Samurai]

Have any of you tried the more serious of the mexican hallucinegenic plants?

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Hell is Other People.

[Billius]

Many good replys. I've enjoyed reading them, reminiscing on my college days where I filled my brain with knowledge while destroying its cells on a regular basis, and loving every minute of it. My imput to some of the feedback; Excellent point about not drinking so much that you poison your system, although 17 beers it seems would have you flowing like a garden fountain, not staying in you long enough to seep into your blood stream. My favorite trips were indeed with friends in party situations back in the late 70's when the acid was good and the weed was more reasonably priced. We were in our late teens and early 20's. (I'd say the age(s) to begin tripping would be about then.) Mixing drugs was no problem for me, since it seemed like the strongest drug always dominated, almost canceling the others out, or so it seemed. Our party hopping was influenced by an combination of:nicotine, alcohol, cannabis sativa, cocaine and LSD (Lorenzo Se Duboise). The coke was not as frequent (expensive & we were broke college students)and the acid was sometimes substituted for mescaline, peyote, or mushrooms. Personally, I limited my trips to once a term. For 7 years. Waking and baking was every day, but that's another story. I'm a cartoonist - go figure. I never really hallucinated on acid, other than the trails, but it is a drug that intensifies the senses. Sounds are everywhere, and if hearing is applied without drugs through meditation, yes, you can hear more than normally meets the ear in normal circumstances. Lots can be experimented at without drugs, but sometimes it takes drugs like LSD to unlock the Doors Of Perception. Yes, DEFINITELY STAY AWAY FROM LOOKING INTO MIRRORS. I spent a few hours doing that once. Or was it minutes? Or Days? Peyote is still my favorite, although Big Time Wrestling, live, on mescaline, is a tough one to top. Mescaline makes you laugh so hard it hurts. Mushrooms are the best hallucigins I've found, and acid IS like swallowing an IBM Machine (Hopper). Go where the natural stuff grows. Smoke it, eat it, with friends and alone. Moderation is the key, then you can always do it. Be careful who you get it from(check their shoes)

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Interstellar Guano

Sake Samurai: You've made a couple of references to heroin, so let's clear up a few things. Opiates and hallucinogens are not remotely similar in any way, except that they are both illegal. The intoxication from narcotics is depressive and purely visceral(basically, it just feelsreal good), although you may experience a little dreaminess...more like drowsiness. The intoxication from acid, etc. is sensory stimulating, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual(the experience is highly complex and very open to interpretation, influenced by many outside factors, etc.). Opiates (natural & synthetic) are highly addictive physically as well as psychologically. Hallucinogens can be psychologically addictive (like reading can), but never physically: though tolerance occurs, the body does not develop a need for the drug. The whole experience of these two classes of drugs is quite different. When you trip, reality is altered but intensified. When you do junk, reality is dulled, sometimes blocked out completely. It's like the difference between lovemaking and carbon monoxide poisoning. I'm not knocking the opiates completely: they are great for killing pain. Yeah, they can be fun, too...just be careful not to make a habit of it. But for rejuvination, inspiration, soul revival: drop acid. Junk is for sleeping. 'Cid is for awakening.

[GOD]

I talk with lots of folks while they are tripping, as they are more receptive. Only problem is when they come down later, the message is pretty garbled. Keep trying.

[jane_says]

TennHippie - do mushrooms not make you barf?

[Freeze Frame]

HAY ALL. I HAVE HAD SOME OF MY BEST TIMES ON LSD. I KNOW IT FRYS THE MIND, BUT I COMPARE IT TOO A VACATION. YES! AN INSTANT VACATION. A NEW MIND SET. GUESS THAT IS WHY THEY CALL IT A "TRIP". LIKE, A BAD TRIP MIGHT BE, LIKE A BAD OCEAN LINER CRUISE WITH DIARHEA. OR A GOOD TRIP MIGHT BE LIKE GOING TO HAWAII, PARTYING, AND FINDING THAT SOME ONE.

ALL OF THIS ON A SMALL PIECE OF PAPER. MAY BE LIQUID, OR CANDY. BUT WHAT EVER IT MAY BE, BUT LIKE A VACATION, ONE BRINGS BAGAGE. JUST MAKE SURE IT IS A SUIT CASE OF CHOCOLATE, AND NOT A BAG OF POOH.

HAPPY TRAILS
FREEZE FRAME

[Sake Samurai]

Tenn: thanks, I guess - I didn't mean to insinuate that I was equating opiates with psychedelics. I've done morphine and am acutely aware of the dulling nature of the drug. I was the definition of undead on morphine - even had arms slashed up without feeling a damn thing.

My reason for bringing heroin into this discussion was out of a desire I have to experience the dreams that come after the drug starts to wear off. Several of my friend have told me that with my imagination and art, I HAVE to try it.

I am not expecting to hallucinate per se, but even the dreams I had on morphine were phenomenal, like visions, so I can't imagine the power of heroin.

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Hell is Other People.

do mushrooms not make you barf?


Small dose - Maybe
Large dose - Probably

Expect intense feelings of nausea in the first hour after you eat shrooms. You might not puke, but you'll feel like you want to.
Some strains of p. cubensis are more likely to make you puke than others. Marijuana will often help curb the nauseau.

Drink alcohol with mushrooms only if you have a cast iron stomach.

I think drinking alcohol with ANY psychedelic just ain't right. It doesn't fit the mood. Alcohol is loud, violent, and in-your-face. Psychedelics are quiet and introspective.
But then I was never a big fan of the 'ol hootch in the first place...

[Demo]

Wow, great thread guys. I, too, am a tripper, although it's been about four years since my last time. I would do it in a heartbeat now if the conditions were right.

A couple of recommendations for the novice tripper: Get yourself a "guide". I did this for a few people back in high school. I made sure to bring lots of trip toys, yummy snacks and had plans for place to go where there weren't many people but lots of fun things to do. I could also tell if the people were in the right mood or not.

Second recommendation: Mexi-Melts from Taco Bell. These are very good. Eat them on acid. Do it. ;-)

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"Teaching without words and work without doing are understood by very few."
-Tao Te Ching

[GasDr]

Anybody come across any 'legal' highs that are worth a damn? A friend of mine told me about some seed that he'd boil to remove a toxin and then eat the seeds for a very pleasant buzz...goldenrod?? I can't remember.

jane_says: No, I've never barfed from eating shrooms...and I've eaten quite a lot. I have experienced a very slight queasiness, but only when eating large amounts dry. My favorite way to take them is in tea: personal faves sassafras or Sleepy Time. But don't boil them; just allow them to steep in the tea after it's made. A little honey is nice. Eat them, too, after they soften in the tea-- no nausea, I guarantee.

puffington: I agree, it always felt kind of "wrong" to drink booze while tripping. And I'm an alcoholic, so that's saying a lot! I usually only drank when I was coming down.

GasDr: You must be thinking of Morning Glory seeds. It's funny: they have cosmic names, too: Heavenly Blue, Flying Saucers, etc. Anyway, I've done it and it's not worth the trouble. You soak the seeds overnight and rinse well to get rid of the toxins they spray on them to discourage this.
Then grind them up, let them soak another 12 hours or so (about 8 to 12 packets' worth)in a couple cups of water. Then you strain the water off and drink it. It tastes god-awful and yes, you want to puke. I didn't, but might as well have. Then about an hour later, you'll get that vague pre-trip anticipatory feeling: slightly stimulating, a little jittery. That lasts for about 2 hours and then it goes away. That's it. It's just a tease. They should leave off the poison and just say "Go ahead. But you'll get more visuals if you just plant the things."