Sir, your bumper-sticker pisses me off.

[alice_in_wonderland]

So today, I'm walking out to the parking lot of my building and I notice a bumber sticker on a truck.

It says "Raise your right hand if you support gun control", and pictured beside this are two people doing the Nazi salute.

Well now, so if I support the idea that maybe people should have to wait a day or two before being able to buy firearms, I'm a FREEKIN' NAZI?!?!?!.

Sir, Fuck You.

And I would have said that to him as well, except he probably had a rifle in the back of his truck with which to shoot me...

[Ice Wolf]

Could try making little stickers to paste over the words next time you see one.

"Raise your right hand if you love the NRA."

[Bob Scene]

Well, we all learned as teenagers that whenever you disagree with someone all you have to do is call them a Nazi and you win the argument. Right?

I'm going out to buy a gun now.

[alice_in_wonderland]

This makes me really, really crusty.

Frankly, I think the bozo is doing his cause a disservice with his obnoxious, inflammatory sticker.


GAH - I'm soo cheesed off, I can't even rant right!

well, not that I ever was much for a rant - I'm just to easy going I guess...

[Palve]

If you really hate a bumper sticker, you might consider peeling it off. If that doesn't work, put another bumper sticker over it (something like "Guns don't kill people; Nazis kill people"). He'd probably blame it on the Jews or something, and rational-thinking people wouldn't mind because he's, as you put it, a FREEKING NAZI!

[Sweet 'Sota Girl]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
And I would have said that to him as well, except he probably had a rifle in the back of his truck with which to shoot me...

Ok, I realize this is a Pit rant, and you're supposed to be (or at least allowed to be) irrational, but...

Generalizing the that because this person is against gun control means he carries a gun with him everywhere he goes is a bit much.

Just my opinion and two cents worth.

The rest of your rant I agree with 100% though. :)

[friedo]

Yet another dweeb doing a disservice to gun rights supporters.

:(

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Devil May Care
Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
And I would have said that to him as well, except he probably had a rifle in the back of his truck with which to shoot me...

Ok, I realize this is a Pit rant, and you're supposed to be (or at least allowed to be) irrational, but...

Generalizing the that because this person is against gun control means he carries a gun with him everywhere he goes is a bit much.

Just my opinion and two cents worth.

The rest of your rant I agree with 100% though. :)

I guess I left out the part about how he was getting into a truck with an obvious, fully stocked, GUN RACK in the back window.

Probably, he wouldn't have shot me, but I bet he would have poked me in the eye, and that would have smarted...

[Turbo Dog]

Depends on what your definition of gun control is. You apparently think that gun control means having to wait two days to buy a gun, in which case you are entitled to be upset with him. The sticker owner apparently feels that gun control means no guns at all, aka HCI, Brady, etc... in which case I agree with the displayer of the sticker.

Why is your opinion anymore valid than his?

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Turbo Dog
Why is your opinion anymore valid than his?

He is allowed to think that he should be able to buy a gun - I have no argument with that. I only object to the assertion that, because I happen to disagree with him, I'm a nazi.

It's obnoxious. Totally and completely obnoxious. Offensive. Completely and totally erroneous.

GAH!

[whistlepig]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland

It's obnoxious. Totally and completely obnoxious. Offensive. Completely and totally erroneous.

Perhaps you could read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. He has a right to put a bumper sticker on. So do you. Don't like his? Get one of your own.

As Americans, we're able to have and express our opinions.

Get over it, move on, find something better to do with your time.

[racinchikki]

If he's allowed to post his opinion on the back of his car, why isn't she allowed to post her opinion here?

[friedo]

Originally posted by whistlepig
Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland

It's obnoxious. Totally and completely obnoxious. Offensive. Completely and totally erroneous.


Perhaps you could read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. He has a right to put a bumper sticker on. So do you. Don't like his? Get one of your own.

As Americans, we're able to have and express our opinions.


And alice has a right to find it offensive and obnoxious. Nowhere did she say The Dweeb should be forced to remove his sticker. As Americans, we're able to express our pissed-offness about other people's obnoxiousness.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by whistlepig
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland

It's obnoxious. Totally and completely obnoxious. Offensive. Completely and totally erroneous.

Perhaps you could read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. He has a right to put a bumper sticker on. So do you. Don't like his? Get one of your own.

As Americans, we're able to have and express our opinions.

Get over it, move on, find something better to do with your time.
All true - EXCEPT I AM CANADIAN!!!

Besides that - I never said he couldn't express his opinion - I said his opinion is a piece of shit. Which it is. And for the record, owning a gun in Canada is not a right either - it is a privilege, much like driving a car, and should be licensed as such.

[Turbo Dog]

Obnoxious, Erroneous and Offensive..

Did you ask him what his understanding of gun control was?

Obnoxious for stating his opinion? That's pretty arrogant.

Erroneous for what exactly? What version of gun control is he opposed to?

Offensive? Pehaps to you it is. Is that a reason to judge a man for a viewpoint before finding out what exactly that viewpoint is?


Perhaps I'm just a bit biased that the sub of the OP implied that anyone against gun control is a loose cannon ready to shoot those who disagree.

[The Tim]

Thinking that gun-control is out of hand is one thing. Calling people who are for gun-control Nazis is idiotic. It is clearly designed to get chuckles from those that agree with you and to piss off those that don't. Yeah bumperstickers tend to be that way, but that doesn't make his any less moronic.

[Niobium Knight]

i dunno. all i know is, USA needs better gun control imho. that bumper sticker sounds a bit stupid to me though.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Turbo Dog
Offensive? Pehaps to you it is. Is that a reason to judge a man for a viewpoint before finding out what exactly that viewpoint is?

His viewpoint was quite clear - if you support gun control, than you are a nazi.

Now why would that be offensive...

Well, My father didn't actually meet my grandfather until after my father's fifth birthday, because grandpa was overseas - fighting nazis.

My grandfather's hearing has been irreperably damaged due to bomb blasts, shooting, etc that he was exposed to overseas - fighting nazis.

My grandfather watched some of his best friends and colleagues blown to bits - yep, thats right folks, by the nazis.

GRANDPA supports gun control. And guess what - he's not a nazi, which pretty much wraps up the erroneous comment as well.

The entire point of the sticker was to piss people off, and guess what - it worked. It also worked in painting this man as a total jackass.

And in regards to my sub post in the OP - that was sarcasm. Also known as a little joke. See, here in Canada, it's very rare that someone gets shot with a gun because we have...Gun Control.

[whistlepig]

Originally posted by friedo
And alice has a right to find it offensive and obnoxious. Nowhere did she say The Dweeb should be forced to remove his sticker. [/B]

She didn't, and I apologize for my mistake in attributing it to Alice. The "rip it off/cover it up" idea was posted by JellyDonut.
Who would probably like my t-shirt that says, "Guns dont kill people, abortion protestors do."

[whistlepig]

Originally posted by racinchikki
If he's allowed to post his opinion on the back of his car, why isn't she allowed to post her opinion here?

She is. I responded to her opinion.

Alice could have done the same to the person whose bumper sticker she disliked.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by whistlepig
Originally posted by friedo
And alice has a right to find it offensive and obnoxious. Nowhere did she say The Dweeb should be forced to remove his sticker.

She didn't, and I apologize for my mistake in attributing it to Alice.[/b]

Appology accepted.

The "rip it off/cover it up" idea was posted by JellyDonut.
Who would probably like my t-shirt that says, "Guns dont kill people, abortion protestors do." [/B]

I'm always fond of: "Gun's don't kill people, people kill people. And people armed with gun's kill a helluva lot more people, a helluva lot faster, than people armed with, say, a large rock." Although it's harder to fit on a bumper sticker.

[Palve]

Why is the bumper sticker erroneous? Well, first of all, erm, how to say this, NAZIS USE GUNS. You think you can take over a good chunk of a continent without guns? Nah.

Secondly, gun control is not supported only by Nazis. I support gun control and I'm a Marxist, which is radically different from being a Nazi.

Thirdly, while members of the Religious Right are for gun control, I wouldn't consider them Nazis. They may be ultra-conservative but they certainly don't read Mein Kampf or worship the swastika.

The bumper sticker is erroneous. Nazis support guns if anything. Many neo-Nazi groups favor armed revolution and the armed destruction of Jews and Blacks. Those that do support gun control are not Nazis.

It is a stupid over-generalization and should be ridiculed.

And, to the surprise of many here, free speech is not limited to the US. Canadia has free speech too. :p So we can all ridicule the stupid bumper sticker and he who is willing to be ridiculed can post the bumper sticker. Nobody said he can't put the sticker up, just that he shouldn't because it's a blaring example of illogic (is that a word?) and ignorance.

[Bob Scene]

It seems to be common among certain gun proponents to associate the Nazis with gun control.

"This year* will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
---Falsely attributed to Adolf Hitler, "Abschied vom Hessenland!" ["Farewell to Hessia!"], ['Berlin Daily' (Loose English Translation)], April 15th, 1935, Page 3 Article 2, Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann [Introduction by Eberhard Beckmann].

From http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcbogus.html


This passage is widely repeated by some of the less-informed opponents of gun control, as a Google search for "gun control" Hitler will show. Here's a debunking of it: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcbogus.html

Another example: a group called Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. (http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm) alleges that "...the Gun Control Act of 1968 was lifted, almost in its entirety, from Nazi legislation." They go on to say, "The likely culprit is a former senator, now deceased. We have documentary proof -- see below -- that he had the original text of the Nazi Weapons Law in his possession 4 months before the bill that became GCA '68 was signed into law."

Also, I've heard callers on radio talk shows say that the first thing Hitler did when he took over was to pass gun control laws. (Actually, the first thing he did when he took over was to crush organized labor.)

I'm sure this myth is where the bumper sticker is coming from. I think instead of vandalizing the guy's truck, it would be more effective to try to educate people a little better. If he's heard that story as many times as I have, and never listened to the other side of it, it's not surprising that he believes it.

I know well that many of the opponents of gun control are as honest and well-educated as you can get, but like I said above, if you have a teenage mentality and want to win an argument, just call people who disagree with you Nazis.

[alice_in_wonderland]

And just while we're at it...

Doesn't the 1st amendment apply to the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT?

A moments contemplation will make it quite clear that I am NOT the American Government, and therefore free to censor whoever the hell I want. :D

[whistlepig]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
Originally posted by whistlepig

Perhaps you could read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. He has a right to put a bumper sticker on. So do you. Don't like his? Get one of your own.

As Americans, we're able to have and express our opinions.

Get over it, move on, find something better to do with your time.

All true - EXCEPT I AM CANADIAN!!!

Your point being . . . what? As a Canadian, you don't have anything better to do with your time? Canadians don't have a right to freedom of expression? Canadian's don't have bumper stickers?

[/B][QOUTE]Besides that - I never said he couldn't express his opinion - I said his opinion is a piece of shit. Which it is.[/B][QOUTE]

You gave your opinion on his opinion and I gave my opinion on your opinion. And now we have your opinion on my opinion of your opinion on his opinion.

[/B]{QOUTE] And for the record, owning a gun in Canada is not a right either - it is a privilege, much like driving a car, and should be licensed as such. [/B]

So now I should opine on Canada's gun laws? Was that what your OP was about?

[whistlepig]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
And just while we're at it...

Doesn't the 1st amendment apply to the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT?

A moments contemplation will make it quite clear that I am NOT the American Government, and therefore free to censor whoever the hell I want. :D

Alice, if you had just said "How's it going there, EH?" in your OP we would have KNOWN you weren't the American gubbamint.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Wow - that was some wacky quoting there guy...

I don't care if you opine on Canada's gun laws. You can opine on whatever you like. Go to town fella.

And BTW - you never responded to my opinion - that his bumber sticker is a stupid peice of crap - you said that he was allowd to put it up.

I never said he wasn't - I said that by doing so, he made himself look like a jackass.

[Palve]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
And just while we're at it...

Doesn't the 1st amendment apply to the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT?

A moments contemplation will make it quite clear that I am NOT the American Government, and therefore free to censor whoever the hell I want. :D

Erm...what about the laws Up Over (not as pleasant-sounding as Down Under, but it's logically correct)?

"Anybody can miss Canada, all tucked away down there." -- Homer Simpson

[Sweet 'Sota Girl]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
I guess I left out the part about how he was getting into a truck with an obvious, fully stocked, GUN RACK in the back window.

Probably, he wouldn't have shot me, but I bet he would have poked me in the eye, and that would have smarted...

Yup, that additional information does change things a little. However, in Minnesota it's hunting season (I believe it still is in the northern portion of the state anyway) and he may have been getting ready to go hunting). I don't know what the seasons are in Canada, or even which part of Canada you are from.

I will reiterate that I share your opinion about the bumper sticker though. :D

[matt_mcl]

One of these days someone is going to be able to post complaining that what someone said made them look like a ginormous moron, without the usual gang of morons accusing them of attempted censorship. I hope.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Nope. Up here we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (http://canada.justice.gc.ca/Loireg/charte/const_en.html#libertes).

Which means that you might be able to say what you want, unless you're in Quebec, in which case it better be in French, unless you're in the Government in which case it can be in English, unless you're in New Brunswick, in which case it better be in both, unless...

Well, anyhow - you have the right to express yourself, but there's a nifty little misnomer at the beginning that says:

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Which gives the Government a bit of leeway, I think. (Other, more knowledgeable Canadian dopers can correct me here.)

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by matt_mcl
One of these days someone is going to be able to post complaining that what someone said made them look like a ginormous moron, without the usual gang of morons accusing them of attempted censorship. I hope.

But only if they do it in English AND French...

[Palve]

alice

That little snippet is probably there to prevent the whole crowded theater yelling "Fire" thing, but it does give the government a lot of leeway. If for whatever reason the government found vowels to be unjustified in a free and democratic society they could prevent you from using them.

F crs, thy wld nvr d tht bt thrtclly thy cld f thy flt lk bng fscst bstrds! N prctc hwvr, t's nt strng ngh t cnsr th Nz stckr. Wll, nlss y'r n Qbc, n whch cs thy cld frce y t trnslt th stckr nt Frnch.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by JellyDonut
alice
F crs, thy wld nvr d tht bt thrtclly thy cld f thy flt lk bng fscst bstrds! N prctc hwvr, t's nt strng ngh t cnsr th Nz stckr. Wll, nlss y'r n Qbc, n whch cs thy cld frce y t trnslt th stckr nt Frnch.

Exactly.

[whistlepig]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
[B]Wow - that was some wacky quoting there guy...

Yeah, my hardware doesn't cut and paste, but it cost me $60 new, including the remote keyboard.

I don't care if you opine on Canada's gun laws. You can opine on whatever you like. Go to town fella.

Don't know, don't care. Not my country. Given those circumstances, I'll use my vast body of knowledge to say nothing. ;)

And BTW - you never responded to my opinion - that his bumber sticker is a stupid peice of crap - you said that he was allowd to put it up.

I thought the OP was about disliking {a} bumpersticker, not {THE} bumpersticker. Don't care to get in to the gun debate.

p.s. I am not doing the "you spelled wrong, so you're opinion means dirt!", but in your OP and the above message you refer to it as a "bumber" sticker. Typo, Canadianism or hearing loss? (Again, just curious, not flaming.)

p.p.s - Ins't it "Godwins Law" that says, "The minute anyone in a thread is referred to as a Nazi, rational thought is no longer likely."

And so to bed.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by whistlepig
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
[B]Wow - that was some wacky quoting there guy...

Yeah, my hardware doesn't cut and paste, but it cost me $60 new, including the remote keyboard.

I don't care if you opine on Canada's gun laws. You can opine on whatever you like. Go to town fella.

Don't know, don't care. Not my country. Given those circumstances, I'll use my vast body of knowledge to say nothing. ;)

And BTW - you never responded to my opinion - that his bumber sticker is a stupid peice of crap - you said that he was allowd to put it up.

I thought the OP was about disliking {a} bumpersticker, not {THE} bumpersticker. Don't care to get in to the gun debate.

p.s. I am not doing the "you spelled wrong, so you're opinion means dirt!", but in your OP and the above message you refer to it as a "bumber" sticker. Typo, Canadianism or hearing loss? (Again, just curious, not flaming.)

p.p.s - Ins't it "Godwins Law" that says, "The minute anyone in a thread is referred to as a Nazi, rational thought is no longer likely."

And so to bed.

Aww shucks - and I was hoping for the "Canadians got American Culture" quote you were inquiring about in General Questions.

<sigh> Next time perhaps. :)

[matt_mcl]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
Which means that you might be able to say what you want, unless you're in Quebec, in which case it better be in French

If you want to start a thread about this, please go ahead.

In any case, I think it is foolish of you to bring the Charter into this, because you were right to say this twerp is talking like a moron in the first place without questioning his right to do so. (At any rate, I doubt that the bumper sticker could be legally found to be hate speech under the Charter definition.)

[Muffin]

Wiebo (http://tv.cbc.ca/national/trans/T011115.html) Ludwig: "You see, and my war really is my life style. I'm not running with the herd. And my tradition is a long one. I'm a protestant. People who protested, the Catholic hierarchy, the abuses of the church in the middle ages, and I still believe very much in the freedom of conscience and the freedom to choose the kind of life you can live with in your conscience regardless of whether it meets everybody's approval or not."

Ludwig: "You know, life's tough. People aren't easy to get through to so you have to humour them once in a while."

Ludwig: "I believe in force. I'm not a pacifist. I believe in resisting unreasonable people with force when there's no other way to go about it. It's just like when a child is unreasonable and you can't talk to him anymore."

And so the unreasonable child was shot. A sixteen year old girl, Karman Willis, on their front lawn.

Ludwig: "It's not on my conscience. Why should it be on my conscience?"

And now the gub'mint, that rat-nazi liberal-pinko-commie gub'mint, won't give the gun back to Weibo's clan until someone claims it.

[Muffin]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
Nope. Up here we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (http://canada.justice.gc.ca/Loireg/charte/const_en.html#libertes).

Which means that you might be able to say what you want, unless you're in Quebec, in which case it better be in French, unless you're in the Government in which case it can be in English, unless you're in New Brunswick, in which case it better be in both, unless...

Well, anyhow - you have the right to express yourself, but there's a nifty little misnomer at the beginning that says:

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Which gives the Government a bit of leeway, I think. (Other, more knowledgeable Canadian dopers can correct me here.)

The courts in the USA have broadly interpreted freedom of speech to include pretty much all forms of expression, so an individual's freedom of expression is as protected in the USA as it is in Canada. For quite a while corporations in the USA did not have the same level of protection, but that has been rectified, so now freedom of expression for corporations is as protected in the USA as it is in Canada.

It pretty much comes down to our Charter being much more recent than the USA Constitution, so their courts have had to jink around a bit to keep up to speed in expanding freedom of speech into freedom of expression, whereas our courts have been presented with freedom of expression enshrined in our Constitution from the git go. We are both pretty much at the same place now.

Culturally, however, there appears to me to be a greater tendency in the USA to hold up literal and absolutist readings of the Constitution (e.g. an absolute right to guns, or an absolute right to expression), whereas in Canada such fundamentalism tends not to sell as easily (with the exception of some parts of Alberta - - hang in there Alice).

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by matt_mcl
[QUOTE]If you want to start a thread about this, please go ahead.


Um, did you just hijack my thread to tell me to stop hijacking my thread?

I didn't bring the charter into it - someone asked about the Canadian version of the 1st amendment, and I provided it.

I didn't imply that Bozo-with-a-bumper-sticker's right to put up that obnoxious bumper sticker was not protected, I merely pointed out that in Canada, it's not quite so cut and dry as in the US.

That's it.

And regarding the other - I didn't say "Which means that you might be able to say what you want, unless you're in Quebec, in which case it better be in French"

What I said was "Which means that you might be able to say what you want, unless you're in Quebec, in which case it better be in French, unless you're in the Government in which case it can be in English, unless you're in New Brunswick, in which case it better be in both, unless..."

which seems a pretty clear indication of my confusion about Canadian language laws.

I then finished my comment with "(Other, more knowledgeable Canadian dopers can correct me here.)", further compounding my admission of a lack of specific knowledge about Canadian language laws.

Please don't extract a single phrase from an entire statement and start attributing meaning, or implied meaning to it that isn't there.

I don't get Bill 101, I don't get Second Cups being fire bombed, and mostly the entire issue confuses me. It confused me when I lived in Quebec, and now that I'm in Alberta and rather far removed from the fray, it confuses me even more.

If you would like to start an "Enlightenment of members of the prairie provinces about Quebec language laws" thread, I would read it gladly, but I'm certainly not going to start some sort of debate or discussion with you. I would clearly lose, having no direct experience with these things for more than 15 years.

[whistlepig]

Hey alice, I remembered!

"Canada could have had French food, English culture and American government. Instead, they ended up with French government, English food and American culture."

'course, the first place I heard that was Victoria.

[Guinastasia]

Originally posted by Turbo Dog

Perhaps I'm just a bit biased that the sub of the OP implied that anyone against gun control is a loose cannon ready to shoot those who disagree.

Oh yeah-but apparently it's okay to imply that anyone who is for gun control is a Nazi?

:rolleyes:

[Lazarus7]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
Originally posted by whistlepig
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland

It's obnoxious. Totally and completely obnoxious. Offensive. Completely and totally erroneous.

Perhaps you could read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. He has a right to put a bumper sticker on. So do you. Don't like his? Get one of your own.

As Americans, we're able to have and express our opinions.

Get over it, move on, find something better to do with your time.
All true - EXCEPT I AM CANADIAN!!!

Besides that - I never said he couldn't express his opinion - I said his opinion is a piece of shit. Which it is. And for the record, owning a gun in Canada is not a right either - it is a privilege, much like driving a car, and should be licensed as such.

I think I might be able to shed some light on this ...

My father is an amateur gunsmith and collector of antique weapons. Oh ... worth noting that he and I both live in Canada (BC to be specific)

He was quite angered several years ago when Alan Rock introduced a series of gun control laws in a bill (I did not care enough to remember the bill number ... sorry).

He was very inflamed and would rant to me for ages about this. I did not look into it much as my father is routinely getting irritated at the government for something (in his defense WCB has been bending him over and taking him rectally for over 27 years now).

He did however give me a shirt that bears the same phrase along with a picture of Hitler on the front.

He told me that the gun control laws being put into place in Canada were identical to the original ones used in Nazi Germany when the Nazis began to establish control over the people. He was concerned that this level of control would lead to the potential for similar abuses of the populace that Jewish people suffered under Nazi hands.

I hope this clears things up for you ...

[Guinastasia]

BTW, weren't guns prohibited in the Weimar Republic-BEFORE Hitler even came to power?

[Muffin]

Comparing Canada to nazi or pre-nazi Germany is absurd.

[whistlepig]

Originally posted by Muffin
Comparing Canada to nazi or pre-nazi Germany is absurd.

Yes it is.

Would someone please move the "guns are good" and "no, they suck" portion of this discussion to IMHO? I was having fun teasing alice before all the gun junk.

Dad gummit, I thought this thread was about bumber stickers, not guns.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Lazarus7
I hope this clears things up for you ...

Actually, there was never anything to clear up - I am completely clear on my opinion. The guy with the bumper sticker looks like a ignorant jackass. If you wear the shirt, you look like an ignorant jackass.

The bumper sticker didn't say "If you support an oppressive amount of gun control, similar to that employed by the Third Reich, you may be supporting nazi-like policies."

It said if you support gun control, you ARE a nazi.

Ignorant, offensive and erroneous, as I said previously.

[SpoilerVirgin]

Mailbag answer by DavidB:

Did Hitler ban gun ownership? (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlergun.html)

[erislover]

So what, really, are you saying, alice?

:D

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by erislover
So what, really, are you saying, alice?

:D

Cumeer, let me show you what I learned at Hap Ki Do last night...

::kicks wildly, at approximately crotch height...::

[Gala Matrix Fire]

Ah HA! But I have the answer to people who think they can win an argument by calling me a nazi...

"How dare you call me a nazi just because I have a German surname, you racist!"

I'm waiting for my first chance to use this.

[RickJay]

Originally posted by matt_mcl
(At any rate, I doubt that the bumper sticker could be legally found to be hate speech under the Charter definition.)

There's no definition of "Hate speech" in the Charter.

There IS such a definition in the Criminal Code. The bumper sticker isn't even close to qualifying.

[Lazarus7]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
Originally posted by Lazarus7
I hope this clears things up for you ...

Actually, there was never anything to clear up - I am completely clear on my opinion. The guy with the bumper sticker looks like a ignorant jackass. If you wear the shirt, you look like an ignorant jackass.

The bumper sticker didn't say "If you support an oppressive amount of gun control, similar to that employed by the Third Reich, you may be supporting nazi-like policies."

It said if you support gun control, you ARE a nazi.

Ignorant, offensive and erroneous, as I said previously.

uummm .. I wear the shirt because I like to piss people off. I don't care a whole lot about gun control issues but I do like to see people get all worked up. It amuses me.

Probably the sign of some sort of mental issue, but such is life.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Lazarus7


you may want to be careful with that, because, as you said..."Be nice to everyone ... you never know who might be a ninja."

Now, let me show [b]You what I learned at Hap Ki Do last night.

::more grandiose, probably useless, but still impressive to watch kicks follow...::


that's just a little joke, BTW folks :D

[Lazarus7]

Originally posted by alice_in_wonderland
Originally posted by Lazarus7
uummm .. I wear the shirt because I like to piss people off. I don't care a whole lot about gun control issues but I do like to see people get all worked up. It amuses me.


you may want to be careful with that, because, as you said..."Be nice to everyone ... you never know who might be a ninja."

Now, let me show You what I learned at Hap Ki Do last night.

::more grandiose, probably useless, but still impressive to watch kicks follow...::


that's just a little joke, BTW folks :D [/B]

caught the joke ... did not figure you would ramp up a shirt into physical combat. *grin*

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Lazarus7
caught the joke ... did not figure you would ramp up a shirt into physical combat. *grin*

Hey man - any excuse to show of my AMAZING Hap Ki Do prowess!

Anyone that knows me IRL will appreciate what a HUGE joke that is..

[Eternal]

What disturbed me most about the OP was that alice had just recently seen that bumper sticker. You've been in wonderland for a long time, huh?

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Eternal
You've been in wonderland for a long time, huh?

No - Canada. :D

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

This is what keeps me from putting bumper stickers about my favorite controversial causes on my car. I'm worried someone will get enraged and hit my bumper, or try to scrape it off when I'm parked.

I'm not into nun-beating or puppy fur for coats or anything like that, but I feel pretty strongly about abortion rights, and I know some people who feel it's murder can't help but get fired up when they see pro-choice slogans. I mean, understandably. If I thought something was murder, I'd be apoplectic seeing someone with a bumper sticker advocating it.

[lieu]

You've given me cause to think.

Maybe I'll pull the Mean People Suck sticker off my car
because I'd certainly hate to see a decrease in oral sex
proclivity amongst the nicies. :)

[Crafter_Man]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Originally posted by Turbo Dog

Perhaps I'm just a bit biased that the sub of the OP implied that anyone against gun control is a loose cannon ready to shoot those who disagree.

Oh yeah-but apparently it's okay to imply that anyone who is for gun control is a Nazi?

:rolleyes: I see some similarities between Nazis and many gun control supporters/organizations:


1. The Nazis were socialists. Many gun control groups support socialist/collectivist causes.
2. Nazis were obsessed with controlling individuals. A tertiary look at publications by gun control groups reveals that it’s really control – not guns – that they want.
3. The Nazis were fervent supporters of gun control. (Gee, why do you think that is?)


I wouldn’t go as far as blindly calling a gun control supporter a Nazi. But the actions of the Nazis - along with many other governments such as those of the Soviet Union, Turkey, China, Guatemala, Uganda, and Cambodia – teach us two things: a) Why governments desire gun control, and b) what happens after gun control is enacted. To answer the latter: It gets ugly.

So if you say you’re a supporter of gun control, and you claim not to be a Nazi, then I believe you. But my point is this: If you believe in gun control, then you may as well be a Nazi.

[xenophon41]

originally excreted by Crafter_Man:
So if you say you’re a supporter of gun control, and you claim not to be a Nazi, then I believe you. But my point is this: If you believe in gun control, then you may as well be a Nazi.
Y'know, Crafter, if you keep dropping inane shit like this into threads and you claim not to be a slobbering moron, then I believe you...

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man
I wouldn’t go as far as blindly calling a gun control supporter a Nazi. But the actions of the Nazis - along with many other governments such as those of the Soviet Union, Turkey, China, Guatemala, Uganda, and Cambodia – teach us two things: a) Why governments desire gun control, and b) what happens after gun control is enacted. To answer the latter: It gets ugly.

Clearly, you missed the part where I said that I live in Canada. Guess what - Canada has gun control, and things here are not particularly ugly. I could go and find crime statistics for a Canadian vs. an American city of comparable size for illustration and compare say "Accidental deaths by guns" for a little comparison of ugliness. Were this GD I would be compelled to do so. However, as this is the pit, it is my prerogative to call you a goat-felching moron instead, which I will do now. Sir, you are a goat-felching moron. If you are wondering where I got my information, it is from this quote.

So if you say you’re a supporter of gun control, and you claim not to be a Nazi, then I believe you. But my point is this: If you believe in gun control, then you may as well be a Nazi.

The arguments you used to reach this conclusion, are about as cogent as the ones I used to reach mine - that is, if you believe the above, then you may as well be a goat-felching moron.

Al.

[Olentzero]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man
The Nazis were socialists.

We're in the Pit, yeah? OK cool.

Crafter_Man, you diarrhoea-caked pig's bunghole, kindly go take a flying fuck at the moon. Nazis were not socialists, never have been, never will be. Statements like that clearly indicate you don't even have two brain cells to rub together, since any sort of rudimentary political awareness - and hence the understanding of the difference between fascism and socialism - requires at least that many.

I, like Palve, am a Marxist. Unlike him, I don't support gun control laws - and DavidB's Staff Report gives a good argument why. The Nazis used previously existing gun control laws against their enemies both real (socialists and Communists) and perceived (Jews). Which is not to say I think the proliferation of ever more destructive firearms is a good thing.

[andros]

1. The Nazis were socialists.

Just because "Socialist" is in the name does not make them socialist. It sure seems they were much closer to authoritarian/totalitarian. But perhaps you have a definition of "socialist" that is indistinguishable from those.

Many gun control groups support socialist/collectivist causes.

Cite, please.

A tertiary look at publications by gun control groups reveals that it’s really control – not guns – that they want.

By "tertiary" I assume you mean "your interpretation, which you are deliberately searching for?" Otherwise, cite please.

The Nazis were fervent supporters of gun control. (Gee, why do you think that is?)

Did you read that Mailbag article linked above?

I wouldn’t go as far as blindly calling a gun control supporter a Nazi . . . [but] If you believe in gun control, then you may as well be a Nazi.

Thanks. I sure appreciate that.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man
But my point is this: If you believe in gun control, then you may as well be a Nazi.

There are so many more Nazis in the world than I knew!! Golly!

Let's see, I've learned on the boards that:

(a) all moderators are Nazis
(b) All dopers who support moderator actions are Nazis
(c) all high-school principals or other authority figures who opress today's youth are Nazis
(d) all gun control advocates are Nazis (or may as well be Nazis).

Who am I missing?

I thought Nazis were a rare breed, beyond the skinheads. Shows what little I know. Looks like we're in the majority! Let's take over the joint and make it less of a pejorative term, shall we?

[Crafter_Man]

Andros, Olentzero… you’d think w/ that many posts, you’d know what you’re talking about.

As Andros has already admitted, the official name of the Nazi Party was “The National Socialist Workers Party of Germany.” (But according to Andros, they were lying about the Socialist part. Go figure...) Hitler and his thugs wanted to nationalize transportation, law enforcement, health care, manufacturing, distribution, education – you name it. (And BTW: Nazi means to nationalize. But you knew that…) Furthermore, Hitler’s campaign strategy was to turn the workers and poor against the conservative republic, much as Marxists do today. They even called anyone who criticized them a “Conservative Reactionary.” Sound familiar, Olentzero? During the reign of terror, the Gestapo made it a point to seize the belongings of rich conservatives who had profited during the old republic. Anyone who did not tow the nationalistic philosophy of the Socialist Workers Party was simply “dealt with,” even blue-eyed German citizens.

I can go on and on, but here’s the bottom line: They called themselves socialists. And were they ever...

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man

I can go on and on, but here’s the bottom line: They called themselves socialists. And were they ever...

You are SUCH a colossal ASS...

Why don't you go here (http://remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html) and do a bit of reading...

The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader.

As I've said before, I live in Canada. Canada is a Socialist Country. We have government run heath care, education and social welfare systems. That being said, I am still free to do pretty much my own thing, as long as I'm not impeding on the rights of others - not unlike the USA.

As many people have pointed out, Idiot-bumper-sticker-owner has every right in the world to display his bumper sticker, and I have every right to call him a jackass for doing so. Were Canada a Nazi run country, this would not be the case.

Your understanding of politics is obviously non-existent.

In short, you are an idiot. If, in the future, you can provide even one snippet of clearly thought out information or fact, I am willing to amend that to say "In short, you are acting/talking like an idiot". Until then, may I just say, that frankly, it is admirable that you were even able to turn on the computer to type that drivel you are trying to pass off as a post.

Al.

[andros]

Yes, dear, here's a nice cookie for you. Now you run and play.

[andros]

Crafter, that is.

[Crafter_Man]

Um, AiW, the Nazis were Fascists. Nazi Germany was a totalitarian state. But they were also socialists. You appear to have the (incorrect) notion that fascism and socialism are mutually exclusive. Or that totalitarianism and socialism are mutually exclusive. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many socialistic countries have become totalitarian. Ever heard of the U.S.S.R.? Does Stalin ring a bell? I’m also not saying that, because a government socialistic, that it must also be fascist and/or totalitarian; I’m simply making a statement that Nazi Germany was a socialist country.

[Muffin]

Thanks, Crafter, for illustrating the difference between consciousness and sentience.

[Guinastasia]

Crafter, why don't you run back to Free Republic with the rest of the children? The grown ups are talking.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man
Ever heard of the U.S.S.R.?

Ever heard of Communism you MONOLITHIC TWIT???

Ya know what - forget it.

If you are too frickin' stupid to be able to detect a difference between say, Canada, and Nazi Germany, then really, you are too stupid for me to waste my time on.

::inserts fingers into ears::

lalalalalalalalala lala de la de da....

[Muffin]

Nazi countries have XXX, therefore all countries with XXX are nazi.

Just fill in the blank, and prest-o change-o, you have a fallacy of composition.

To bad some folks can't grasp logic.

[Kimstu]

My own favorite part of Crafter's post: (And BTW: Nazi means to nationalize. But you knew that…)

Yes, folks, Crafter Man thinks that "Nazi" is a German verb meaning "to nationalize"! As the rest of us know, in fact, it's an abbreviation for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or "National Socialist German Workers' Party," the official name of the Nazis.

And the idea that the Nazis must have shared an ideology with the parties or groups that are commonly called "socialist" today, just because they had "Socialist" in their name, is indeed pretty silly---not to mention, as other posters have noted, overwhelmingly contradicted by the historical facts. By Crafter's standards of reasoning, because (most) Chinese live in the People's Republic of China, that makes them Republicans.

[dalovindj]

Bumper??? Sticker??? I hardly know her!!!

[Eternal]

I agree with Muffin. You're all a bunch of idiots if you think that because things share common characteristics, they are somehow identical, or that if things are not identical, they must not share common characteristics.

[Guinastasia]

Hey-the Nazis were also WORKERS! Therefore, all WORKERS are Nazis!!!

Wow!

[Crafter_Man]

Originally posted by Kimstu
My own favorite part of Crafter's post: (And BTW: Nazi means to nationalize. But you knew that…)

Yes, folks, Crafter Man thinks that "Nazi" is a German verb meaning "to nationalize"! As the rest of us know, in fact, it's an abbreviation for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or "National Socialist German Workers' Party," the official name of the Nazis.

And the idea that the Nazis must have shared an ideology with the parties or groups that are commonly called "socialist" today, just because they had "Socialist" in their name, is indeed pretty silly---not to mention, as other posters have noted, overwhelmingly contradicted by the historical facts. By Crafter's standards of reasoning, because (most) Chinese live in the People's Republic of China, that makes them Republicans.

China is a republic, you dillwad! For that matter, so was Nazi Germany.

And “Nazi” was the gutter slang for the term “to nationalize,” though some historians state it was an abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workingmen's Party that was formed in 1920. As Cecil would say, “I feel like I’m arguing the Pope is Catholic.”

As previously stated, the Nazis were socialists as we commonly define the term today. But if you do a little research, the terminology will become very confusing, and often contradictory. They were often called “anti-socialists” and “anti-communists,” yet they promoted socialist causes. Their main opposition in the 1930 election was the “Republican coalition” (the Social Democrats, Catholic Centrists, Democrats), yet any of those terms could be applied to them. Very confusing… The terms thrown around during that time were utilized more for political gain than anything else, but nothing can take away the fact that the Nazis were socialist/totalitarian/fascist monsters.

[Olentzero]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man
Andros, Olentzero? you?d think w/ that many posts, you?d know what you?re talking about.

People who do know what they're talking about have said that to me. Sometimes they've been right.

You are nowhere close to being in either category. You're pretty much just a fucking idiot.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Yes folks,

It appears that I AM Uma Thurman!

Just look at the evidence:

1. I am a woman. Uma Thurman is a woman!
2. I'm kinda tall. Uma Thurman is kinda tall!
3. I'm not particularly stacked. Uma Thurman is not particularly stacked!

Clearly I AM Uma Thurman.. wha...

::looks up. shakes Crafter_Man's tinfoil helmet off::

Oh. Phooey.

[galen ubal]

Wheeeee! I love the pit. The arguments get so bizarre...

Where else can you go from "alice doesn't like a bumpersticker" to "alice is Uma Thurman" in just a few days.

Carry on.

[Guinastasia]

Crafter, this is the Pit, but do you have a site for that?

It's so deep I need boots just to wade through your steaming piles of nonsense.